WEBVTT - How First Nations People Deal With Grief 0:00:00.600 --> 0:00:03.800 Welcome to First things first, I'm Brookletting. My pronouns are 0:00:03.840 --> 0:00:04.400 she and her. 0:00:04.880 --> 0:00:07.280 My Maddie Mills, my pronouns are he and him. And 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:10.119 before we get started, we'd like to acknowledge the custodians 0:00:10.119 --> 0:00:12.119 of the land on which we recorded today. For me, 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:14.240 that's the gattigal people of the urination. 0:00:14.320 --> 0:00:17.560 And for me it's a warrandry people of the coolin 0:00:17.680 --> 0:00:23.240 nation Google. So I have to give a little bit 0:00:23.239 --> 0:00:26.480 of a shout out to a recent film that I watched, 0:00:26.560 --> 0:00:33.960 which actually was like looking at your life through or 0:00:34.040 --> 0:00:37.279 like a bird's eye view of your life or. 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:42.680 Looking in their mirror. It was such a reflection. 0:00:42.520 --> 0:00:45.559 Of my own childhood that it was kind of creepy 0:00:45.600 --> 0:00:49.720 and spooky in a way. Obviously different experiences, but the 0:00:49.800 --> 0:00:54.320 general vibe and the feeling of it was so one 0:00:54.440 --> 0:01:00.880 nostalgic two so relatable and connection and owfool that it 0:01:01.160 --> 0:01:06.199 just yeah, we need. It makes me so inspired to 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:11.319 create more films like this. HL So it's called Like 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:16.399 My Brother, and it's basically a story of three girls, 0:01:16.520 --> 0:01:22.240 Jess Rider and Rena, who are pretty talented AFL players. 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:26.319 They play. They're from the TV Islands and they're wanting to. 0:01:26.319 --> 0:01:30.360 Get drafted to the AFLW and they have to travel 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:33.639 a long way from home to do that, and luckily 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:38.600 they get picked up with the Bombers Bombers Scout Soeston Bombers, 0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:42.760 and they get to sort of train and test and 0:01:43.480 --> 0:01:47.280 play a VFL season with the Bombers and you move 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:50.680 away from home. But one of the common themes that I, 0:01:50.680 --> 0:01:53.600 I guess felt in this film, and I guess is 0:01:53.600 --> 0:01:58.320 a common theme for our lives is the sorry business 0:01:58.960 --> 0:01:59.960 and grief aspect. 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:05.320 Oh yeah, it really hits our communities totally. It's so 0:02:05.480 --> 0:02:08.480 sad to say this, but it's the time where we 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:12.680 connect the most as mob. Like. It feels like whenever 0:02:12.960 --> 0:02:15.920 I'm around family, it's always for sorry business. You know. 0:02:17.240 --> 0:02:20.040 There's not that many weddings that I can say that 0:02:20.080 --> 0:02:23.079 I've been to where I've connected with my family. It's 0:02:23.080 --> 0:02:24.080 more like funerals. 0:02:24.280 --> 0:02:26.160 That's I guess why I was so excited to become 0:02:26.280 --> 0:02:29.040 a marriage celebrant, which I will be still, but it's 0:02:29.080 --> 0:02:30.799 just taking me a bit of time because I got 0:02:30.880 --> 0:02:31.840 so much other shit. 0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:32.800 Going on total. 0:02:32.840 --> 0:02:35.800 But I want to like do those you know, cultural 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:38.520 ceremonies where it's like a wedding. I want to start 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:42.720 more ceremonies that were to celebrate love and care and 0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:48.320 consideration rather than death and grief and sadness and fucking loss. 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:51.320 Like, I'm over that, But it's just a thing that 0:02:51.360 --> 0:02:54.600 we have to live with, isn't it? In our lives? 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:57.600 And every time I sort of talk about my life, 0:02:57.600 --> 0:02:58.720 people say, wow. 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:01.560 Like you really we have lost a lot of people. 0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:05.880 Yeah, And I don't even I'm so desensitized to that 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:09.120 word or even the feeling, because I'm like, yeah, I have, 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:12.840 but I don't know, just get on with life really anyway. 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:16.079 That's a tough person. I think that somebody who has 0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:19.120 lost direct family members like that at such a young age, 0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:24.040 I feel like you do grow like a tough exterior. Yeah, 0:03:24.080 --> 0:03:27.720 you know. And it's a weird thing because I think 0:03:27.760 --> 0:03:32.280 what people would necessarily expect from somebody who's gone through 0:03:32.280 --> 0:03:34.400 so much trauma at such a young age is a 0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:39.800 broken person and somebody who crumbles easily or is visibly 0:03:39.840 --> 0:03:43.680 affected by that grief and trauma all the time. Yeah, 0:03:43.680 --> 0:03:47.200 But it's like the thing about the human experience is 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:50.160 that you do find ways to get through stuff, and 0:03:50.280 --> 0:03:51.280 you find ways to. 0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:53.720 Cope yeah, I agree. 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:56.160 Yeah, how do you think, Like, I know that you've 0:03:56.200 --> 0:03:58.440 gone through a lot in your life when it comes 0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:01.000 to loss, Like, what are your cope mechanisms? How do 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:02.400 you get through your grief? 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:06.720 Well, grief is a lot like just life in general. 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:09.880 And I think, you know, life moments go up and down, 0:04:10.080 --> 0:04:13.920 and you can't always have good days, like you have 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:16.000 to have shitty days to appreciate the good ones. You 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:18.800 can have good days appreciate why the shitty ones exist. 0:04:20.600 --> 0:04:22.640 And I think grief is a bit similar to that. 0:04:22.839 --> 0:04:26.279 I think you kind of might It might not hit 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:27.200 you in that. 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:29.640 Moment of losing someone. It might come later. 0:04:30.240 --> 0:04:34.400 You might And you know, there's this experience of grief 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:39.440 is that there are seven parts of it and you 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:41.800 know they sort of can come at any time. They're 0:04:41.800 --> 0:04:44.520 not you know, in level of order. I guess you know. 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:48.760 One of the first things is usually shock and that 0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:55.800 could come later. Anger, denial, Yeah, you know. And I 0:04:55.839 --> 0:04:59.240 think for me personally, how I've dealt with it is 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:03.560 when I was much younger, you know, I didn't realize 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:09.840 that I had suppressed some of it, and then some 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:12.360 of it I you know, made it. 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:14.039 A motivation in a way. 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:17.680 So, and then some of it was I was fucking 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:20.680 angry at and I experienced a lot of anger. So 0:05:21.320 --> 0:05:24.839 my coping mechanisms haven't always been the most healthy. But 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:28.359 because I'm in such a healthy mindset now and I 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:31.400 can look back at those experiences and look how I 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:34.599 am now, I can see what I did then was 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:37.640 only in my capacity, and I was a kid, and 0:05:37.680 --> 0:05:39.200 I just had to sort of get on and deal 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:41.799 with it. And now I'm sort of dealing with the effects. 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:46.440 But grief affects me every day. I guess in some way. 0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:49.719 I have moments of these, you know, sad moments where 0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:54.440 I feel really joyful and so happy that I'm like, Wow, 0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:56.520 my god, I can't believe I have just achieved that. 0:05:56.480 --> 0:05:57.679 And this is such a great moment. 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:01.080 And then I'll have this rush of sadness because of 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:04.640 the feeling that my mom doesn't get to experience this 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:07.400 with me, and I'll feel sad even though I'm feeling 0:06:07.520 --> 0:06:10.720 so happy, I feel this hint of sadness because she 0:06:10.800 --> 0:06:13.000 doesn't get to dwell and live in. 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:13.440 This with me. 0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:16.520 And I guess that's just living with grief, right, That's 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:19.200 just living with that, and it affects you at different 0:06:19.240 --> 0:06:20.440 points in your life. 0:06:21.600 --> 0:06:22.480 Yeah, what about you. 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:26.880 I guess you've also, you know, have lost so many 0:06:26.920 --> 0:06:31.560 family members, you know, your brother recently more so. And 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:35.719 do you feel like, as an adult you've been able 0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:37.919 to learn to deal with it better or do you 0:06:37.960 --> 0:06:41.080 think you're still kind of just going through the waves 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:41.640 of it all. 0:06:42.400 --> 0:06:45.359 I just remember having such a weird experience with grief. 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:47.360 When I was young, I was told that my dad 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:50.440 had died. So I grew up with the belief and 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:54.479 the grief of somebody who that I believed was dead 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:58.640 and gone. And I remember how sad that was for 0:06:58.680 --> 0:07:00.799 me as a young kid, and how empty I felt, 0:07:01.040 --> 0:07:03.840 thinking that I would never get to meet my dad 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:07.000 or experience life with a dad. And then all of 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:10.240 a sudden that all turned in on itself and it 0:07:10.320 --> 0:07:13.400 was false. And it's like all that grief that I 0:07:13.480 --> 0:07:16.080 experienced as a kid, and the lies and the trauma 0:07:16.120 --> 0:07:18.600 that came with that, the emptiness that came with that, 0:07:19.120 --> 0:07:21.560 it felt like it was all for nothing, Like who 0:07:21.600 --> 0:07:24.480 would put someone through that? Then, you know that sort 0:07:24.520 --> 0:07:27.800 of I had this weird moment where when I met 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:30.040 my dad when I was in care for the first time, 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:34.520 it was the weirdest feeling of like I was elated, 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:37.280 you know, like it was like an outer body experience 0:07:37.320 --> 0:07:39.960 of seeing this man and having this interaction that was 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:42.760 just never on the cards. And I think that that 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:47.760 healed like a lot of that grief really quickly. Experience 0:07:47.760 --> 0:07:50.440 of getting to know my dad healed a lot of 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:53.960 that loss and that disconnectedness when I was a young kid, 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:57.600 but then getting older and experiencing grief. I think what 0:07:57.680 --> 0:08:02.000 I've realized is I try and experience joy a lot 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:06.760 when it comes to my life. And I think, yeah, 0:08:06.760 --> 0:08:10.960 and I think that that's yeah, and that's why I 0:08:10.960 --> 0:08:13.200 do what I do, Like I really believe that I 0:08:13.240 --> 0:08:17.320 have a job that I experienced joy in and so I. 0:08:17.640 --> 0:08:20.160 Don't want to be dwelling in the mind right. 0:08:20.720 --> 0:08:23.480 It's it's the counter attack to what I've been given, 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:26.160 the cards I've been given. Yes, I have to I 0:08:26.200 --> 0:08:28.360 have to produce joy in my life and that's my job. 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:30.960 I think I get so much joy out of being 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:33.680 able to live out my dream in my career that 0:08:33.880 --> 0:08:38.480 it's like the counter action to what cards I was dealt. 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:40.800 It's heavy not just on me, but I see it 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:42.520 when I go home with my family, like there's a 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:45.800 lot of grief, especially recently around my brother. You know, 0:08:46.360 --> 0:08:52.720 how I've seen grief affect someone really half is my dad. 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:53.800 Yeah. 0:08:53.840 --> 0:09:02.000 My dad was a really strong, like determined, loving kind man, 0:09:02.360 --> 0:09:11.880 and grief has made him deeply depressed, bedridden, debilitating. You know, 0:09:12.320 --> 0:09:15.040 grief has been debilitating to him to the point where 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:18.640 he's ended up in hospital for weeks on end because 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:22.280 of grief. And I feel like, if you don't have 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:25.520 the coping mechanisms, or if you don't have the resources 0:09:25.600 --> 0:09:28.080 or people around you to support you and take a 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:29.880 bit of that weight off, if. 0:09:29.800 --> 0:09:32.880 You just go by day by day kind of cold. 0:09:32.720 --> 0:09:35.120 And it holds you down. I think that there are 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:38.680 so many of our communities that are drowning in grief. Yeah, 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:41.240 I think about my community back home of cold out 0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:44.560 just being in that place, I feel it. 0:09:44.800 --> 0:09:48.600 I remember someone telling me that grief is like having 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:53.600 a rock in your pocket, and some days you feel 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:56.360 it and some days you might not notice it. And 0:09:56.559 --> 0:09:59.240 sometimes it feels heavier and some days it feels lighter. 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:02.440 And I think that's a great sort of analogy of 0:10:02.480 --> 0:10:05.000 how I sort of see grief is that in the 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:08.480 moments when you feel really strong and you're feeling really empowered, 0:10:08.480 --> 0:10:11.719 and you're feeling liberated, you're feeling supported and loved by 0:10:11.840 --> 0:10:15.280 people around you. The rock doesn't feel so heavy. The 0:10:15.360 --> 0:10:19.760 thing is it actually never really goes away. Yeah, you know, 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:22.400 it's not like this're thing like, oh I'm healed and 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:27.040 I'm grieved. It's like you've lost something, You've lost a 0:10:27.080 --> 0:10:30.319 bit of you. And I think that's what I realized 0:10:30.320 --> 0:10:32.880 when I was younger, is that I felt like I 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:35.640 was always trying to strive to be back to the 0:10:35.679 --> 0:10:40.040 same person that I was before something happened, and I 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:42.480 was striving to get back to that. But that's kind 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:46.920 of what grief does. Unfortunately. I feel when you lose someone, 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:49.120 you do lose a little bit of a part of yourself, 0:10:49.360 --> 0:10:51.960 and you have to acknowledge that it doesn't change you 0:10:52.200 --> 0:10:55.959 or make you different or anyway, but it does affect 0:10:56.000 --> 0:10:59.600 you and you're not always going to be the same person. 0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:05.280 It's such a complex issue, grief, but we don't talk 0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:06.160 about it a lot. 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:09.479 I feel like it's a universal experience we all experience. 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:12.640 I think that in our community we experience it a 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:16.720 lot because of the disadvantage that we face. And I 0:11:16.760 --> 0:11:23.079 think that colonization has contributed to massively contributed to that disadvantage. 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:26.079 So there's a lot of issues within our community that 0:11:26.440 --> 0:11:30.679 grief stems from. You agree, a lots of disconnection, you know, 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:35.400 when that isn't just about people, but that's about land, environment, culture. 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:39.280 I think you become lost, and I think that there's 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:41.839 this sense of trying to find something that you can 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:45.640 hold onto or belonging, and grief is something that sometimes 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:46.959 can deny you from that. 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:50.959 It does, yeah, and then if you don't I think 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:52.360 if you don't acknowledge it. 0:11:52.679 --> 0:11:55.040 When you acknowledge it, there is a bit of pressure 0:11:55.080 --> 0:11:58.280 that is relieved. It's like, oh, okay, because you're seeing 0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:00.280 it for what it is. Yes, it has power in 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:04.200 the sense that it can affect you in how you operate. 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:07.120 But if you acknowledge it, it's like when you have 0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:08.680 a list of things to do, when they're all in 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:11.280 your head and you're like, oh, I feel overwhelmed. As 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:13.720 soon as you write them down on a piece of paper, Immediately, 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:17.120 all of a sudden, it's gone from here to here 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:20.000 and there's a weight that's been lifted and you feel like, oh, 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:22.040 that is achievable. I know exactly what I need to 0:12:22.080 --> 0:12:22.800 do to get that done. 0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:24.760 Well, okay, when you think of your grief. 0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:27.400 Who So, when I think of grief and the word 0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:31.240 grief and I think, oh, yeah, is my sister comes 0:12:31.320 --> 0:12:35.400 up a lot, and I think it's because I felt 0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:36.720 like losing my sister. 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:41.000 You know, when it's a sibling, you're so close, and my. 0:12:41.080 --> 0:12:45.760 Sister is always the feeling that I when I'm not 0:12:45.920 --> 0:12:52.000 feeling well, I like know that I'm still grieving that 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:57.559 because it's my most recent and I haven't been like, oh, well, 0:12:57.600 --> 0:13:02.200 it happened three years ago, should be fine. I'm like, actually, no, 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:06.360 I'm actually still not okay with it. And that's pretty 0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:10.920 I'm okay with that actually because I know that that's 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:14.560 a slow process and it actually probably changed me the most. 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:16.640 Yeah you know what I mean, Like. 0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:20.280 That I had gone on this massive high. I thought 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:23.000 I'd be the happiest of my ever, you know, just 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:27.360 picked David from the Bachelorette. I was excited about the future, 0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:30.920 and then all of a sudden, I'm reminded of something 0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:35.360 and then sort of straight back to the real reality 0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:35.800 of my. 0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:37.560 Life. 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:42.080 In what happens so quickly, I guess, not just in 0:13:42.160 --> 0:13:44.600 fastinations communities, but families in general. 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:46.240 Obviously, like things can just. 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:53.480 Change, and that reminder is just so jarring sometimes. And 0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:55.720 in that moment, I was like that it actually like 0:13:55.880 --> 0:13:58.360 changed me as a person. And I have thought, oh, 0:13:58.400 --> 0:13:59.760 I need to get back to that brooke and I 0:13:59.800 --> 0:14:01.840 need to get that back. I'm like, I'm actually not 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:03.000 that broke anymore. 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:06.840 No things change you. It's like heartbreak in a relationship 0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:10.640 that changes how you love. If somebody hurts in a relationship, 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:14.560 it immediately changes how you love, yeah, and how you 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:18.720 experience love and the doubts. But when I think about grief, 0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:24.120 I always think of obviously my brother, and I think 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:29.600 the process of that, the severity of like somebody's actions 0:14:29.640 --> 0:14:33.080 being so cruel. The hard thing about the scenario is 0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:36.880 that I didn't allow it to be real. The experience 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:40.320 of like having a brother murdered. I always felt like 0:14:40.360 --> 0:14:44.120 I it was never real. It was like a something 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:46.560 that happened to me that I just shut off, never 0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:51.440 ever dealt with, you know. And only recently has it 0:14:51.480 --> 0:14:56.400 become less numb. And I put his photo next to 0:14:56.440 --> 0:14:59.760 my bed a few months ago and as a reminder 0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:03.120 of him and his life, and it was the last 0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:05.440 photo we took together. It was me, him and my dad, 0:15:06.160 --> 0:15:09.040 and I put it in black and white, and my 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:11.800 partner said, why is it in black and white? You 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:15.400 need to give him color, give him life, you know, 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:18.560 And it was, and so I ended up reprinting it 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:22.200 in color. And I haven't ever experienced grief like that, 0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:26.520 where like it's been so deep that you don't even 0:15:27.920 --> 0:15:30.400 want to look at it, Like I before that moment, 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:35.360 I couldn't look at photos of him. I couldn't really 0:15:35.400 --> 0:15:37.120 talk about him or say his name, like it was 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:38.840 too hard to go there. And as soon as a 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:42.120 memory would come up or I'd get flashbacks to his body, 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:46.760 you know, Yeah, days before the funeral, I would just 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:48.360 shut it out. It was like I just jumped that 0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:52.120 hurdle and leave it. And that's how I knew that 0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:55.720 grief was way too hard to even like connect with. 0:15:55.840 --> 0:15:57.840 You know, it's like too hard and I'm just gonna 0:15:57.880 --> 0:16:02.160 push it down. But recently, with a bit of justice, 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:06.960 came a bit of acknowledging, you know, the severity but 0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:10.560 the reality of what happened. And I think that justice 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:14.760 has allowed me to be more open to working on 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:17.200 that grief. It's still something it's like two years on. 0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:20.840 Was it like a closure? Like, is it like a. 0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:23.920 It's closure to the fact that I need to worry 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:28.360 about somebody paying the price. They are paying the price now. Yeah, 0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:30.760 never enough and it will never be enough, but they 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:33.760 are paying for what they did. That little bit of 0:16:33.920 --> 0:16:36.480 justice has given me, I don't know, a sense of 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:39.040 connection to being. 0:16:38.920 --> 0:16:41.720 Able to now, Yeah, to heal like it it's like 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:47.240 an acknowledgment. It's like an invitation or an acceptance, like to. 0:16:47.120 --> 0:16:51.360 Worry about what happened. It's more about now focusing on healing. 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:55.760 You know, this particular grief will stay with me forever, 0:16:56.360 --> 0:16:58.560 but I can do things to combat it and make 0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:02.160 sure that it doesn't become like a barrier to my 0:17:02.440 --> 0:17:03.680 mental health or success. 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:06.000 Yeah, because that's what it can be. 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:10.800 And I see that actually quite often in the young 0:17:10.800 --> 0:17:14.600 girls that I work with, it being something that stops 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:20.879 them from doing something and stops them from believing in themselves. 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:23.520 And I guess you know, I was that little girl 0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:26.639 once upon a time, you know, experiencing grief in the 0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:30.520 Aboriginal community. You experience it at such a young age, 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:33.640 don't you reckon? Like you're going to funerals when you're 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:39.159 really young. I was lucky. I say that I was lucky. 0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:41.920 But my fucking first funeral was my mom's. 0:17:42.520 --> 0:17:43.160 That was really hard. 0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:46.159 I didn't even know how funerals worked or run or 0:17:46.680 --> 0:17:49.639 you know, writing a eulogy when you're eleven years not eulogy, 0:17:49.680 --> 0:17:52.320 but writing, Yeah, it's eulogy, right, like when you're eleven 0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:55.560 years old. Yeah, it's like such a fucking surreal moment. 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:57.879 But now the young girls that I'm working with are 0:17:57.920 --> 0:18:00.800 doing similar things, and I guess, like, I'm really lucky 0:18:00.800 --> 0:18:03.280 that I've got the skills now to be able to 0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:06.040 help and support them, and it's a sort of full 0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:09.040 circle moment. But I just think, you know, grief has 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:12.160 affected my life so much, and I really don't want. 0:18:11.880 --> 0:18:14.240 It to affect theirs. But at the. 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:18.200 Same time, I know that they'll be stronger for it 0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:21.320 in some ways because I was myself. And I think, 0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:23.800 you know, if you look at the sort of light 0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:25.920 at the end of the tunnel, or you know, look 0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:29.840 at the lightest optimism and hope that an experience will 0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:33.000 either make you stronger or make you learn something. 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:36.159 You know what I say. Yeah, people say you win 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:38.320 or you lose. No, you win or you learn. 0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:41.119 You win or you learn, I agree, or you learn 0:18:41.280 --> 0:18:43.040 because I will choose not to lose. 0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:47.240 The losing isn't even a thing, like, yes, it is 0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:49.360 a thing in terms like okay hate when I say 0:18:49.359 --> 0:18:50.439 it's not a thing, and then I go, yes, it 0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:55.040 is a thing. What I mean is every failure, failure 0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:58.320 in quotations, or everything that isn't meant for us is 0:18:58.320 --> 0:19:02.520 a learning Yes, it's a learning experience. And I've learned. 0:19:02.760 --> 0:19:04.800 I think that's the best piece of advice that I've 0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:07.959 ever been given. You either win or you learn, because like, 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:09.440 losing isn't a thing. 0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:13.280 Yeah, And I think you've built that obviously. You know, 0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:16.000 you've built that resilience. And I think that's what I'm 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:19.040 worried about young kids these days, is that they haven't 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:22.480 had time to build that resilience. Like, you know, phones 0:19:22.520 --> 0:19:26.080 have created this stimulation constantly that they're getting this like 0:19:26.160 --> 0:19:29.120 really big dopamine hit. You know, that they're not being 0:19:29.160 --> 0:19:32.640 able to sell, soothe, self, manage. As soon as their 0:19:32.640 --> 0:19:36.439 phones are out of sight, out of mind, They're in 0:19:36.480 --> 0:19:38.720 the real world pretty much now, and they don't know 0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:41.000 how to deal with that. And I think it's really 0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:44.480 affecting our young people like overall, and I think when 0:19:44.560 --> 0:19:47.600 it comes to grief and our young people, especially the 0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:50.919 girls that I work with, the self manage and the 0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:56.040 self soothing is their phones and technology and that's not realistic, no, 0:19:56.359 --> 0:20:00.240 And you know they're not seeing things or you full 0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:02.879 information around grief. They don't know what grief is. And 0:20:03.840 --> 0:20:05.880 so you know, if you're dealing with this like shock 0:20:05.960 --> 0:20:08.080 factor of losing someone, you go and do the sorry 0:20:08.119 --> 0:20:11.400 business you mourn. It doesn't just end there like I think. 0:20:11.480 --> 0:20:13.440 You know, people think, oh, so you do sorry business 0:20:13.520 --> 0:20:16.439 and you stay there until you're healed. It's not the case. 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:21.720 You stay there until you feel like you can properly 0:20:22.080 --> 0:20:25.400 move on in life. I guess in a way where 0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:28.480 your function, you know, and you allow that time. That's 0:20:28.480 --> 0:20:32.040 what that time is for which we are lucky that 0:20:32.080 --> 0:20:34.560 we give our kids the opportunity to do that. But 0:20:35.600 --> 0:20:38.359 I guess this documentary that I had the pleasure of, 0:20:38.440 --> 0:20:40.840 you know, doing a moderating a Q and A four 0:20:41.320 --> 0:20:46.679 was just so realistic to the rawness of young girls 0:20:47.119 --> 0:20:50.159 moving you know, away from home, which I feel was 0:20:50.200 --> 0:20:54.320 myself and wanting to pursue a dream. But then sorry 0:20:54.320 --> 0:20:57.760 business and grief pulling them back to community and not 0:20:58.080 --> 0:21:03.240 being able to you know, suspend into the pursuits of 0:21:03.359 --> 0:21:05.120 you know, pursuing their dream kind of thing. 0:21:05.200 --> 0:21:05.920 Do you know what I mean? 0:21:06.119 --> 0:21:10.159 Like it being a barrier and I know that sorry, 0:21:10.160 --> 0:21:12.439 business is so important, but at the same time, I 0:21:12.480 --> 0:21:18.159 do feel like sometimes we we have to understand that 0:21:21.119 --> 0:21:25.480 it can pull back and pull back too far. 0:21:26.240 --> 0:21:27.480 Yeah, does that make sense? 0:21:28.000 --> 0:21:32.240 You know, it's equally as important self preservation, Yes, yes, 0:21:32.320 --> 0:21:32.960 self preserve. 0:21:33.040 --> 0:21:35.520 That's the other side of it, right, that's the other side. 0:21:36.080 --> 0:21:40.480 Yeah, And there's a balance there of being a part 0:21:40.600 --> 0:21:46.080 of ceremony and culture and understanding sorry, business and supporting family, 0:21:46.400 --> 0:21:49.879 but also don't do it to the detriment of your 0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:54.280 own mental health if you're not in a position self preserve. Yeah, 0:21:54.960 --> 0:21:56.400 it's super important. 0:21:56.040 --> 0:21:57.720 But that's one that's one great tip. 0:21:57.840 --> 0:22:00.960 So I guess with you know, we've spoken a little 0:22:00.960 --> 0:22:03.160 bit about our experiences with grief and then what we 0:22:03.880 --> 0:22:05.440 you know, how we feel it and what it kind 0:22:05.480 --> 0:22:09.200 of can look like. I guess what are some techniques 0:22:09.320 --> 0:22:12.440 or guess what are some techniques or I guess strategies 0:22:12.480 --> 0:22:17.280 that or advice even you would give to someone who 0:22:18.359 --> 0:22:21.320