Speaker 1: It's Harps, it's Melissa, it's Bronti. It's it's you and
Speaker 1: us on the Bloody You Project for the millionth time.
Speaker 1: It's seven oh three in the thriving metropolis of Melbourne.
Speaker 1: Melissa Marie Cameron is over there in the number one
Speaker 1: seat because she's the actual boss of me and everything.
Speaker 1: She looks like Mary Poppins. She's a fucking tyrant. Don't
Speaker 1: be tricked when you meet her. She looks all love
Speaker 1: and light and unicorns and Jesus and stuff. It's not true.
Speaker 1: She's a weapon.
Speaker 2: Hi. Hello.
Speaker 1: It's a very special day to day, firstly because we
Speaker 1: have Bronti, and second because it's someone's birthday, big birthday.
Speaker 1: Let's not talk about that. But happy birthday, Harps. I
Speaker 1: was hoping you wouldn't bring that up.
Speaker 2: You did.
Speaker 1: We don't need to, We don't need to talk about that. Ah,
Speaker 1: Hi Bronti, let's ignore Melyssa. Hi, Bronzi, I'm not.
Speaker 2: Going to AGNOMALLYSSA hello personally and happy twenty first.
Speaker 1: Birthday is Come on, I'm thirty. Let's not be ridiculous.
Speaker 1: And I'm thirty. It's all right. Bat down the hatches, Melissa,
Speaker 1: thanks for that. That's your fifteenth, fifteenth warning, you're out.
Speaker 1: One more warning, You're gone, You're done.
Speaker 2: That's what will happened.
Speaker 1: Then I'll just then I'll just give her another I've
Speaker 1: been giving a warning, Spepper, I'd sack me before i'd
Speaker 1: sack her. Bronte, I'm shit. Yes, she's the wind beneath
Speaker 1: my wings. She keeps my life from going off the
Speaker 1: rails in many ways. How are you? Thank you for
Speaker 1: coming on the you project?
Speaker 2: Oh, thanks so much for having me. I'm well. This
Speaker 2: morning I started my day with a little swim in
Speaker 2: the ocean, so I'm feeling great.
Speaker 1: Just a lazy k or two was it? What did you?
Speaker 1: What did you crank out?
Speaker 2: Oh? Not much so this morning. That swim of the
Speaker 2: ocean was a purely recreational swim. So I caught about
Speaker 2: four waves and then I came back in again. So
Speaker 2: that the thing is, you walk down, you order your
Speaker 2: bacon egg roll, and you get in and youm for
Speaker 2: twelve minutes, and you get out and your bacon may
Speaker 2: rolls ready for you, pick it up, and then you
Speaker 2: walk home and eat it. And that is the perfect warning.
Speaker 1: That is exactly my protocol. Are we doing that straight?
Speaker 1: Out that everyone knows that's bullshit. I have the buoyancy
Speaker 1: of a of a I was going to say brick,
Speaker 1: but yeah, not very I'm not very buoyant. What is
Speaker 1: speaking of buoyancy and floatability for one of a less
Speaker 1: science y term, and in terms of expending energy and
Speaker 1: being fast in the pool, I know nothing about this,
Speaker 1: So I'm just asking, is there a point where you
Speaker 1: have too much muscle, too little fat, and too much muscle,
Speaker 1: which means you've got to expend more energy not just
Speaker 1: to move forward, but to stay near the top of
Speaker 1: the water.
Speaker 2: Yeah, sort of. It's probably less about like how much
Speaker 2: muscle you have and more about how you balance yourself
Speaker 2: in the water. So some people really struggle to float
Speaker 2: in general, but you can always teach people to float
Speaker 2: a little bit more. It's more about, like, mainly, when
Speaker 2: you see people really struggling when they're swimming, it's because
Speaker 2: they move a bit too much in too many different
Speaker 2: ways and it doesn't let the water like support you
Speaker 2: and hold you up. If you can keep yourself streamlined
Speaker 2: and quite fill through your core and the upper part
Speaker 2: of your body, and then tilt yourself forward enough in
Speaker 2: the water through your hips, are far enough up you
Speaker 2: will be able to stay afloat while you move through
Speaker 2: the water. But lots of plann people are moving all
Speaker 2: part of their bodies at once, and as the water
Speaker 2: moves it becomes like less dense around you and fill
Speaker 2: up with bubbles and stuff. And that's when you see
Speaker 2: people really start to think. So, yeah, it's the seems
Speaker 2: really simple, and then the more you get into it,
Speaker 2: the more complicated it gets. I'm not exactly a physicist,
Speaker 2: so I'm not into the full hydrodynamics of the of
Speaker 2: the thing. But I love going to local pools and
Speaker 2: public pools and you see people swiming. You're like, oh,
Speaker 2: maybe just change just one little thing and can a
Speaker 2: huge difference just keeping like your body still.
Speaker 1: It's such a such a fine science, like at your level,
Speaker 1: you know, trying to get an edge. All I remember
Speaker 1: about the physics and thermodynamics and all of that stuff
Speaker 1: of swimming was Benuli's principal from about second year phizzed
Speaker 1: or second year human movement, which is all about the
Speaker 1: way that air and I think water moves over objects
Speaker 1: moving forward. But anyway, we don't need to go there.
Speaker 1: How's your body holding up? How's your body holding up?
Speaker 1: You you twenty nine year old.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm basically I'm laughed. Now. I think that my
Speaker 2: name is BRUNTI the geriatric Campbell. That's like my fighting name.
Speaker 1: Out of the blue corner. Weighing in it sixty three
Speaker 1: kilos or whatever your way, I.
Speaker 2: Think I like sixty five. That's like my normal fighting weight.
Speaker 2: But it was very good, guess thank you. So yes,
Speaker 2: body's going well, thank you. I still have a lot
Speaker 2: of injuries that I manage, but they're being managed. And
Speaker 2: if people ask me, like, what's something I'm really proud
Speaker 2: of in my career, I'm really proud of the fact
Speaker 2: that my shoulder in particular has been a very tricky injury,
Speaker 2: and I've had that for over half of my career.
Speaker 2: Like I started getting injured in twenty sixteen, which is
Speaker 2: now quite a long time ago. I've been going with
Speaker 2: it for seven years and still managing to keep on performing.
Speaker 2: So I'm kind of like weirdly proud of my injuries
Speaker 2: because they've taken me to a whole new level of
Speaker 2: professionalism to get to manage them. But they are actually
Speaker 2: being managed, which is really great thing. I didn't think
Speaker 2: I could do that. In twenty sixteen, I thought if
Speaker 2: you got an injury, it was the end of your career.
Speaker 2: So I'm pretty happy to still be here.
Speaker 1: It's a real juggling act, I think, because I've worked
Speaker 1: with lots of athletes, so before I did all the
Speaker 1: stuff I'm currently doing, my first life was as an
Speaker 1: exercise scientist and working with teams and athletes and all that.
Speaker 1: And it's a real juggling act because you are trying
Speaker 1: to get the absolute most out of your body, especially
Speaker 1: you know, an explosive sport. It's all about power and
Speaker 1: speed and intensity and hard training and recovery, and you've
Speaker 1: got to be right at the edge where you want to.
Speaker 1: You're almost getting injured, but you're not getting injured. You know.
Speaker 1: It's right up to the line of how hard can
Speaker 1: I train without breaking myself?
Speaker 2: Right? Yeah, it's a tipping point. And then the extra
Speaker 2: the extra thing on is once you are injured, it's
Speaker 2: how much pain in this injury is too much? And
Speaker 2: how much is enough? So like, you're going to be
Speaker 2: in pain most of the time, but how much is
Speaker 2: so much that it's going to make the injury worse
Speaker 2: or it's going to snowball and make other areas of
Speaker 2: your body more painful because they're now compensating for the pain.
Speaker 2: So figuring out for each new in like how much
Speaker 2: can I actually push this before it like impacts my
Speaker 2: training for the rest of the week, Like if I
Speaker 2: do less in this session, is that a better option
Speaker 2: than missing maybe a week of training because I've gone
Speaker 2: too hard in this one session. And actually that is
Speaker 2: the most tiring part of being injured. It's not necessarily
Speaker 2: managing the pain or like being in pain with the injury,
Speaker 2: which obviously sucks, but it's every single day having to
Speaker 2: like second guess yourself and be like, am I being lazy? Here?
Speaker 2: Is this enough? Is this too much? Oh? No, I've
Speaker 2: gone too far up? What's a week of training? Okay,
Speaker 2: next time I won't do that, And then the next
Speaker 2: time it comes around, you're like, well, I really really
Speaker 2: just want to get this session done, and you push
Speaker 2: too hard. So it's it's this constant battle of like
Speaker 2: trying to like hold yourself back and also push yourself
Speaker 2: as much as you can, and no one can tell
Speaker 2: you how to do it, and no one can like
Speaker 2: really give you advice because it's just up to you.
Speaker 2: And feeling your body. So it's definitely taken me a
Speaker 2: while to to figure that out of how much is
Speaker 2: too much and how much just gets the job done.
Speaker 1: It's a really interesting point that individual kind of interpretation
Speaker 1: of all the biofeedback. You know, what your body's telling you,
Speaker 1: what your energy levels telling you, what your heart rate
Speaker 1: variability is telling you. You know, just in terms of
Speaker 1: all the data that your body is producing for you,
Speaker 1: and then being able to interpret that data, that biological
Speaker 1: information that you're being fed and then know what to
Speaker 1: do with that. Because you know, you and Melissa, who
Speaker 1: aren't that different in age, Like if you were both
Speaker 1: elite swimmers and you did the same thing, Melissa, do
Speaker 1: you like the fact that I'm making you an Olympic
Speaker 1: swimmer for this story instantly? It's fantastic. Yeah, I know, No,
Speaker 1: just sit up a little bit taller. But yeah, if
Speaker 1: you even if you had the same injury, like a
Speaker 1: rotator car or whatever, you had an injury, you're both
Speaker 1: going to recover differently. And what might hurt Melissa might
Speaker 1: not hurt you, Bronte. And so it's like everybody around you,
Speaker 1: excise physiologists and physios and surgeons and everyone's taking a
Speaker 1: very educated guess, but only you can figure it out sometimes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that's a bit that I really
Speaker 2: struggled with was when I first got injured, I just
Speaker 2: wanted someone to tell me what to do to make
Speaker 2: it better, and no one those single person held the
Speaker 2: whole puzzle. There was what the different pieces from an
Speaker 2: amazing team and everyone was incredibly helpful, But at the
Speaker 2: end of the day, I had to really take the
Speaker 2: pieces that worked for me and figure out what those
Speaker 2: were and hold onto them. And it wasn't as easy
Speaker 2: as like it probably would have been easy if I
Speaker 2: had a less complicated injury. If you have an injury
Speaker 2: that it's like a torn handstring or something, there's a
Speaker 2: pretty tried and tested protocol for fixing that. But my
Speaker 2: injuries were not that, not that easy to solve. So
Speaker 2: it was really a process of exploration that took about
Speaker 2: two years to figure out what actually works for me.
Speaker 1: And what's harder for you, Managing your body or managing
Speaker 1: your mind.
Speaker 2: I think they go together, and especially I just had
Speaker 2: a big break from swimming and people are like, oh,
Speaker 2: it was it a mental break that you needed or
Speaker 2: a physical break? I'm like, they sort of are completely
Speaker 2: into twines, and it's exhausting managing your body, like mentally exhausting,
Speaker 2: but your body is also like being in pain constantly
Speaker 2: makes your mind exhausted as well. So then I don't
Speaker 2: really see them as completely separate things. And I mean
Speaker 2: we all know, like if you're in a good headspace,
Speaker 2: how differently your body responds. And I mean physiologically you
Speaker 2: can look at that and look at say the blood
Speaker 2: of someone who is lonely and unhappy versus the blood
Speaker 2: of someone who's happy, and the inflammatory markers and both
Speaker 2: of our bloods are different. So it's I think it's
Speaker 2: it's less separated than we think it is, so I
Speaker 2: try to look after both as much as possible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very true. That's very current of you with
Speaker 1: all that thinking about and the inflammatory markers and stuff.
Speaker 1: It's so true. Like we realize now that like we
Speaker 1: used to only talk about food and exercise and lifestyle
Speaker 1: and booze and sleep and all of those things which
Speaker 1: are really important, but we now realize that how connected
Speaker 1: you are or how you socialize, or how loved you
Speaker 1: are or how loved you feel you are and relationships
Speaker 1: is like a big, big health factor massive health factor,
Speaker 1: isn't it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think the Health Journal in America that's his
Speaker 2: number one thing that he's decided to tackle, his loneliness.
Speaker 2: It's this number one health crisis. I mean, his data
Speaker 2: that he did his research on was showing that loneliness
Speaker 2: is a bigger health rist than diabetes because of all
Speaker 2: the extra things that it leads to. So, yeah, it's
Speaker 2: I get fascinated by this stuff because I think it's
Speaker 2: the science is very interesting because it kind of reiterates
Speaker 2: what we knew in our societies for a long time. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's things that we always crave belonging and its crave
Speaker 2: connection as much as anything else. And now we're sort
Speaker 2: of looking at the science of it and being like, oh, wow,
Speaker 2: we actually physically need this. This isn't just a mental thing.
Speaker 2: And I think the more we connect the two, the
Speaker 2: more we can also bridge that gap between the stigma
Speaker 2: of what is a physical aimblement and what is a
Speaker 2: mental health ailment because they are super connected and we
Speaker 2: typically don't think about mental health is as important as
Speaker 2: physical health. By connecting the two, I think that that's
Speaker 2: a really a really interesting way of showing that it's
Speaker 2: not just one or the other, that they're both as
Speaker 2: important as each other.
Speaker 1: Unsent. Well, we know that what we think depending on
Speaker 1: what we're thinking about. But what we think can have
Speaker 1: a physiological consequence. If you if right now you have
Speaker 1: a bad thought and negative thought and you think you
Speaker 1: or in trouble, or you're at risk, or you know
Speaker 1: but you're not but you think you are, there'll be
Speaker 1: a resultant kind of physiological shift, you know, heart rate
Speaker 1: and blood pressure and all of those things. How do
Speaker 1: you what would you have done if you never got
Speaker 1: in a pool. Let's take out all the athletic options.
Speaker 1: What else do you think if you had have made
Speaker 1: a different decision at seven? I'm sure you weren't making
Speaker 1: life decisions at seven. You just wanted to get in
Speaker 1: the pool. But if you had have taken a different
Speaker 1: path and done nothing, something more academic or corporate or creative,
Speaker 1: what might that have been?
Speaker 2: Well, every take me back to when I was seven.
Speaker 2: I very much was like I'm going to the Olympics
Speaker 2: for swimming. I was making this like big decision, Like
Speaker 2: I honestly just watched the Olympics and I was like, Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm going to be an Olympics swimmer, and like this
Speaker 2: was that my big thing, And used to walk myself
Speaker 2: down to the pool every morning and like watch the
Speaker 2: big kids train, and like I was obsessed.
Speaker 1: In your bare feet and I heard you were going
Speaker 1: to be a fifteen hundred meter a swimmer.
Speaker 2: That didn't I was, yeah, and that quickly didn't work out,
Speaker 2: But that's fine. Pretend I didn't do any of that.
Speaker 2: Pretend I never watched the Olympics or did anything. The
Speaker 2: other thing I really wanted to do when I was
Speaker 2: seven was be a potter, like make things in pottery.
Speaker 2: I was like obsessed with it, And during COVID I
Speaker 2: started doing some pottery again, which I've really enjoyed as
Speaker 2: a creative thing. As my parents pointed out to me,
Speaker 2: not much of a career in pottery unless you're very
Speaker 2: very very good. But you never know. Maybe I could
Speaker 2: have been very very very good.
Speaker 1: But statistically I'm probably just as likely to become rich
Speaker 1: or famous or successful in pottery as elite swimming or
Speaker 1: the average person is. So you probably you took the
Speaker 1: narrow path anyway, but it worked out.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I definitely had some teachers at school, Like on
Speaker 2: career day when I said I wanted to be in
Speaker 2: a professional swimmer, who take me a time, Like, it's
Speaker 2: very unlikely, only like points zero one per cent of people.
Speaker 2: I think in for Olympics, it's like point zero zero
Speaker 2: is zero one to send or something of the population
Speaker 2: go to the lytic. So like, it's super unlikely, you
Speaker 2: should probably pick something else.
Speaker 1: And then on top of that to become an Olympic medalist,
Speaker 1: Olympic gold medalist, multiple two time Olympic gold medalist. I mean, well,
Speaker 1: that's just now you're fucking showing off. Hey, do you
Speaker 1: know what I did last night in preparation for this.
Speaker 1: I was looking at so you were born in Malawi
Speaker 1: and you moved here when you were seven? Am I? Right? Seven? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And do you know how many Melissa, I'm going to
Speaker 1: ask you, do you know how many Olympic gold medals
Speaker 1: Malawi have won? Absolutely no idea, but well I can
Speaker 1: tell you that Bronzia Campbell has won more than the
Speaker 1: entire And I feel bad now that I'm saying that.
Speaker 1: I don't mean that, But what I am saying is Bronti,
Speaker 1: if you had a stayed in Malawi and you had
Speaker 1: have kept swimming, you'd definitely be the most famous person
Speaker 1: in the country. You'd be a national hero. You'd have
Speaker 1: it's named after you. Do you ever go back there.
Speaker 2: I've been back to Malawi once since we left, and
Speaker 2: I'm very keen to go back again. Lawi is a
Speaker 2: beautiful country. It's so gorgeous, but it really doesn't have
Speaker 2: It's a very impoverished country as well. Like when we
Speaker 2: went back in twenty ten, they were just starting to
Speaker 2: put in tard roads everything with dirt roads before that.
Speaker 2: There's one traffic light in the town that I grew
Speaker 2: up in, which didn't work most of the time because
Speaker 2: the power didn't work most of the time. We're very
Speaker 2: lucky we could live a great lifestyle there that had
Speaker 2: a great job. But it's a very different country from Australia,
Speaker 2: very different opportunities. One thing Malawi does do very well
Speaker 2: is they're really good at netball. They have really good
Speaker 2: netball teams and really good netball players. So even in
Speaker 2: a country where there's not a lot of opportunity and
Speaker 2: definitely not many swimming pools, you still see people excelling
Speaker 2: in these athleticstitutes, which is always always great. And I
Speaker 2: see the Malawi athletes at the Olympics, and we always
Speaker 2: like trade gear and stuff that actually have some Malawi
Speaker 2: gear even though I've never never been, never been representing
Speaker 2: the country.
Speaker 1: So you have a dual passport.
Speaker 2: No, I don't. I'm just purely Australian.
Speaker 1: So so mom and dad were originally from here and
Speaker 1: you were just born over there, is that right?
Speaker 2: Or no, they were from South Africa, right, So I
Speaker 2: actually had a South African passport and then we moved
Speaker 2: to Australia in two thousand and one, and yeah, we
Speaker 2: could have gone for duel citizenship, and so I possibly
Speaker 2: could have gone and represented South Africa as well, but
Speaker 2: pretty adamant that the place that we were living should
Speaker 2: be the place that year a citizen Ovens. I mean,
Speaker 2: there's a lot of pride in putting on a green
Speaker 2: and gold jumper, so I wanted to always be holding
Speaker 2: onto that. Really.
Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of athletes are weird, you know, you
Speaker 1: know that and have rituals and super OCD and like,
Speaker 1: I've worked with a bunch of Olympians summer and winter,
Speaker 1: mainly winter Olympians and teams over here. Speaking of netball,
Speaker 1: Melbourne Vixen's Melbourne Phoenix. You know, in the netball and
Speaker 1: AFL stuff, but a lot of them, like a disproportionate
Speaker 1: percentage compared to the general pop. I think have pre
Speaker 1: competitional pre game or even pre training rules and rituals,
Speaker 1: do you.
Speaker 2: Not, really, I'm probably a little bit different in that space.
Speaker 2: I think the idea of having rituals and superstitions and
Speaker 2: stuff makes so much sense to me because the environment
Speaker 2: that we operate in is so uncertain and so give
Speaker 2: so little control often, and so you're trying to assert
Speaker 2: as much control as you can in whatever way you can,
Speaker 2: even if you know it's kind of superficial. But no,
Speaker 2: I don't really like I just go through my process
Speaker 2: when I'm getting ready for AOLS rock up two hours before,
Speaker 2: start doing my physio exercises, jump in the pool like
Speaker 2: an hour intent out to my warm up. So all
Speaker 2: of that is fairly similar, and I guess that's what
Speaker 2: it takes the place of those superstitions and rituals for me.
Speaker 2: If I had the thing is, I'm like not very
Speaker 2: organized and like very forgetful, So if I had a
Speaker 2: ritual or superstition, I would be worried that I would
Speaker 2: like forget to do it or forget to like bring
Speaker 2: this lucky thing with me, and then I would be
Speaker 2: very freaked out. So I've kind of like stayed away
Speaker 2: from it. Like I'm the sort of person that I
Speaker 2: actually forgot my swimming togs when I was going, like
Speaker 2: I was warming up for the Olympics, and I didn't
Speaker 2: have my talks with me, so I had to like
Speaker 2: go borrow some That is like the level that I
Speaker 2: normally operate on. So I don't think ritual half for
Speaker 2: me because I'll probably just forget them.
Speaker 1: But that maybe that's good because you don't suffer too
Speaker 1: much from anxiety or or you do like you seem
Speaker 1: laid back.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm I am fairly laid back. It doesn't mean
Speaker 2: that you're not nervous before you race, Like the nerves
Speaker 2: are like ever present, like go and like have a
Speaker 2: little vomit before you race, Like you can't keep anything
Speaker 2: in your stomach, you don't want to eat anything. Like
Speaker 2: the feeling is like so intensely almost like I just
Speaker 2: want this to be over, like just get me through
Speaker 2: this race, so like these nerves could just be done.
Speaker 2: But at the same time, I also kind of love
Speaker 2: that feeling, so you kind of dread it and you
Speaker 2: kind of love it, and it's a bit of a
Speaker 2: love hate relationship. But no, in general, like I wouldn't,
Speaker 2: I wouldn't count myself as a generally anxious person. But
Speaker 2: that doesn't mean that you don't get nervous. Nerves are
Speaker 2: all are all part of it.
Speaker 1: It's a really interesting thing, nerves and like you said,
Speaker 1: the physical and the psychological or intertwined one hundred percent.
Speaker 1: And sometimes you get people who are really talented, really
Speaker 1: well trying physiologically or genetically gifted, but they just can't
Speaker 1: keep their shit together under pressure, you know, they just
Speaker 1: can't self regulate in the middle of competition. What percentage
Speaker 1: of people do you think or swimmers perhaps really struggle
Speaker 1: with that, Like they're talented, they're gifted, they're well trying,
Speaker 1: they're physically ready, but they just can't self regulate well
Speaker 1: in competition.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I definitely think it's something that you see people
Speaker 2: struggling with in swimming and other sports. Swimming is a
Speaker 2: very very unforgiving sport. It's you versus other people, but
Speaker 2: also you versus a clock, like an objective time that
Speaker 2: doesn't change. Versus other people is almost easier because you're
Speaker 2: can adapt to how they're going. If someone's going badly
Speaker 2: and you're going just a little bit better than them,
Speaker 2: you win. But the clock like doesn't lie, it just
Speaker 2: keeps on ticking over and like for reference, if in
Speaker 2: the fifty free style, if I'm one percent of my best,
Speaker 2: that's point two of a second. Point two of a
Speaker 2: second is the difference between first and nighth place. So
Speaker 2: that's that's the sort of level that you're you're the
Speaker 2: error margin that you're operating under is both more that
Speaker 2: any little slip up can make a really big difference,
Speaker 2: and everything's really got to go perfectly, And that means
Speaker 2: that physically and mentally you have to bring both of
Speaker 2: those presences one hundred percent, and you do see people
Speaker 2: really struggle with that under pressure.
Speaker 1: Without throwing back to a science lesson, what are some
Speaker 1: of the variables around speed through water? Like how I
Speaker 1: mean obviously, like I'm strong, for example, but I can't
Speaker 1: swim well right, so I'm not going to be fast.
Speaker 1: So what talk about technique versus strength versus I don't know,
Speaker 1: body shape versus like position in the world water? Tell
Speaker 1: us about that stuff?
Speaker 2: Well, probably the biggest thing in swimming that you don't
Speaker 2: have another sports is the drag of the water. So
Speaker 2: anything that you can do to make yourself more streamlined
Speaker 2: is going to be very helpful. And that then goes
Speaker 2: down to body shape and position in the water and
Speaker 2: how you can hold yourself in the water. All of
Speaker 2: that sort of combines. So that's the main thing is
Speaker 2: if you can if you're thinking about like actual speed speed,
Speaker 2: like I'm talking about if you're swimming at fifty meters
Speaker 2: or one hundred meters freestyle, as you taper and freshen
Speaker 2: up and get stronger, your body position or change in
Speaker 2: the water, you'll sit a bit higher in the water.
Speaker 2: So like you know, when you get a speedboat or
Speaker 2: even like a tinny and you really rever and it
Speaker 2: sort of like sits up in the water. You can
Speaker 2: see people like fit a bit higher in the water
Speaker 2: and less that their body is in the water, and
Speaker 2: that creates way less drags. So for us, like one
Speaker 2: of the biggest things is how do you eliminate drag
Speaker 2: as much as possible in your stroke while getting as
Speaker 2: much power through the water at the same time.
Speaker 1: And so what's what's the plan moving forward? Because you
Speaker 1: had a break, did you have like a year and
Speaker 1: a half break recently in the last couple of years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I did. After Tokyo Olympics. I had eighteen months
Speaker 2: out of the water or out of the water, out
Speaker 2: of the swimming pool. I was learning to surf during
Speaker 2: that time instead of swimming, so that was that was fun.
Speaker 2: So I stove in my arms, but in a slightly
Speaker 2: different way.
Speaker 1: You are you any good at that?
Speaker 2: I'm really good at bady, I'm not that as good
Speaker 2: as surfing. I'm getting there. I'm getting there. There's a nice,
Speaker 2: nice crew down there who sort of took pity on
Speaker 2: me and gave me lots of pointers as I was
Speaker 2: starting out. Yeah, it's a great sport, but I'm not
Speaker 2: I'm not going to like now there or anything anytime soon.
Speaker 1: And the intention is to go to Paris.
Speaker 2: Is it for surfing? Yes?
Speaker 1: Yes, not imagine that. Imagine guess what everybody breaking news.
Speaker 1: Brodie Kenniball has changed sports. It's still aquatic, but she's
Speaker 1: on it, not in.
Speaker 2: It, and somehow, without ever having some before, she's going
Speaker 2: to think she's going to be the best in the world.
Speaker 2: Sometimes I do think I'm Steph Gilmore. Then I see
Speaker 2: a video of myself surfing I'm like, yeah, you're really
Speaker 2: really not Steph Gilmore.
Speaker 1: But if one of you had to swim away from
Speaker 1: a shark, she would get eaten.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Probably. I mean, let's hope that never happens. Let's
Speaker 2: let's hope that that's Sinnario ever eventure.
Speaker 1: Let's hope that's purely just a hypothetical. Yeah, and so,
Speaker 1: so how do you stay or do you need to
Speaker 1: stay focused and pumped? Is it is it something that
Speaker 1: you think like next year, it's next year, Wow, that's
Speaker 1: next year, that that you need to that you need
Speaker 1: to do. Or is it something you're still excited about
Speaker 1: and passionate about and you know you want to go
Speaker 1: like you desperately want to swim.
Speaker 2: That's that's the only reason I came back to it.
Speaker 2: So I had eighteen months off. I went away from
Speaker 2: the sport completely, like said, the only thing I was
Speaker 2: doing was was surfing. That's as close as I got
Speaker 2: to it. I was working at ey and Business Consulting,
Speaker 2: going through my nine to five job, putting on a
Speaker 2: suit in the morning and catching the ferry to work
Speaker 2: and doing all the things. And I'd finished my business
Speaker 2: like a grown up, like like actually pretending to be
Speaker 2: a grown up. Yes, so I put on my big
Speaker 2: girl pants that went out into the world, and I
Speaker 2: really wanted to do that. I needed to do that.
Speaker 2: I've been swimming, like I said, a start. I started
Speaker 2: this dream when I was seven, and I realistically finished
Speaker 2: school and qualified for the Olympics four months later, and
Speaker 2: I've been a professional athlete ever since and studying on
Speaker 2: the fire and bits of work on the slide. But
Speaker 2: I've never been able to like hold down a proper job.
Speaker 2: It's just not possible when you're training six hours a day.
Speaker 2: So being able to go and do that was great
Speaker 2: for me to prove that I can do it and
Speaker 2: also to learn heaps from doing it. So I enjoyed
Speaker 2: doing that. And then the choice whether to swim or
Speaker 2: not really became a choice between two options. So it
Speaker 2: was would I like to swim and have a shot
Speaker 2: at the next film this or would I like to
Speaker 2: keep doing this career that I'm currently doing. It didn't
Speaker 2: become a choice of do I swim or do I not?
Speaker 2: Which I think is that which is scarier choice, almost
Speaker 2: like do I do this or do I stop doing it?
Speaker 2: And I don't know what I'm going to do after that,
Speaker 2: and for me like the opportunity to try go to
Speaker 2: one more Olympics, to have one more shot at this once.
Speaker 2: Once that chapter is closed, the whole book is finished,
Speaker 2: I'm done, and I just I know that I can.
Speaker 2: I will have to work the rest of my life,
Speaker 2: whatever that ends up looking like, but I will have
Speaker 2: to do that. I've got the whole rest of my
Speaker 2: life for this. Just put in, realistically, eighteen more months
Speaker 2: of work and see if you could make it to Paris.
Speaker 2: And that was another thinking behind it, and I started training.
Speaker 2: I was like, you know what, start training, get back
Speaker 2: in the pool. If you don't want to be there,
Speaker 2: you'll know pretty soon. We're pretty good at knowing the
Speaker 2: things that we don't want to do. So I was like, okay,
Speaker 2: just give yourself like three months to get fit and
Speaker 2: then reevaluate and say like do you want to keep
Speaker 2: doing this or not? And I really enjoyed getting back in.
Speaker 2: I really enjoyed the training, enjoy working hard. And it's
Speaker 2: something I don't think many people get to do, is
Speaker 2: put everything all into one race and everything all towards
Speaker 2: one big goal. And I really I really like doing that.
Speaker 2: So I've got one last shot that at doing that,
Speaker 2: and I couldn't really.
Speaker 1: Pass it up in order to find interesting about from
Speaker 1: a physiology point of view and from a performance point
Speaker 1: of view and a career, length of career and age
Speaker 1: of retirement point of view, swimmers seem to peak really early.
Speaker 1: But within other sports that are a lot about strength
Speaker 1: and power and speed and acceleration, you know, they peak
Speaker 1: in there, often peak in their late twenties, early and
Speaker 1: even mid thirties. Like when we look at track athletes
Speaker 1: and field athletes, sometimes some of the best in the
Speaker 1: world are five, six, seven years older than you are
Speaker 1: right now. Why is that? Do you think? Like, why
Speaker 1: are people kind of almost you know, old in inverted
Speaker 1: commas by the time they hit thirty in swimming?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is a really interesting thing, and I don't
Speaker 2: know if I have like an actual answer for you.
Speaker 2: I know that in rowing, the average age of a
Speaker 2: metallist is thirty years old, and we don't currently have
Speaker 2: anyone who's over thirty on the team. I mean, hopefully
Speaker 2: me and my system make the team next year, that
Speaker 2: would be that would be us in our thirties. But
Speaker 2: it's very unusual and I think we when you train
Speaker 2: for swimming, you have to do a lot of training
Speaker 2: comparative to other sports. I think about track and fields.
Speaker 2: Track athletes walk around on their legs all day, or
Speaker 2: every single person does, so you get all this like
Speaker 2: class like just this really low level conditioning of your legs.
Speaker 2: You don't get that in your arms just incidentally every day,
Speaker 2: so we have to train that in the pool. We
Speaker 2: typically train longer and further than an equivalent track athlete would.
Speaker 2: So say a track athlete was running four hundred meters,
Speaker 2: which is about the same time that would take us
Speaker 2: just from one hundred meters, So you think got the
Speaker 2: same length of exertion there in both of those races.
Speaker 2: The amount of training that we do, the amount of
Speaker 2: aerobic training that we do for that is dramatically more
Speaker 2: than a track athlete because we don't have this like
Speaker 2: walking around every day conditioning in your arms, which is
Speaker 2: like sort of part of what you need. And then
Speaker 2: I think that just takes the toll over time. Traditionally,
Speaker 2: there's also not been a lot of funding or way
Speaker 2: to make money in the sport, and that can't be
Speaker 2: discounted because it's all very well to be earning twenty
Speaker 2: thousand dollars when you're nineteen, that's like amazing, you're like stoked.
Speaker 2: But by the time you're twenty nine, if you're still
Speaker 2: on twenty thousand dollars a year and try to make
Speaker 2: your life work, it's not going to work. And I
Speaker 2: don't like the sport's in a fairly good place now,
Speaker 2: But if we look at past champions especially in Olympic
Speaker 2: sports just in general, and amateur sports in general, it's
Speaker 2: a big part of why people retire.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, how does a normal training week look for
Speaker 1: you at the moment? I not varies through the year
Speaker 1: depending on where we're at in terms of competition and stuff.
Speaker 1: But for them, like, now, how much you in the
Speaker 1: pool do you? Are you doing strength training at this moment?
Speaker 1: What does that look like? What's all the kind of
Speaker 1: ancillary stuff that you do around that, stretching, recovery, rehab stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 1: give us an idea of a week at the minute.
Speaker 3: So a week at the minute, I normally it's normally
Speaker 3: I train twice a day every day, but what those
Speaker 3: sessions are look different, So like.
Speaker 2: On a Monday, so it would be like two swim sessions,
Speaker 2: once in the morning and once in the afternoon, with
Speaker 2: the afternoon being a main session, and then maybe on
Speaker 2: a Tuesday it's one swim session and the other ones
Speaker 2: a gym session and the recovery session. So I do
Speaker 2: quite a lot of gym heavy lifting. In the gym.
Speaker 2: I'm sprint athletes, so power and stre there's really important
Speaker 2: to me. So I do my gym session and then
Speaker 2: I go to recovery after so like ice bath and
Speaker 2: stuff after the gym in the afternoon.
Speaker 1: How much do you bench bro I don't bench broth
Speaker 1: at all? Actually, I know, I'm not kidding, by the way,
Speaker 1: everyone that was a joke. It's the least functional exerciseable
Speaker 1: time and really bad for your shoulders. What kind of
Speaker 1: strength training do you do?
Speaker 2: Chin ups are like the best thing for assuming that
Speaker 2: we do a lot of chin ups, So I do
Speaker 2: doing chin ups my whole life, but we do weighted
Speaker 2: chin ups. So at the moment I would do Yeah,
Speaker 2: my final reps would be like two sets of one
Speaker 2: rep of thirty five kilos, so my body weight with
Speaker 2: thirty five ons, so wow, how much how I say
Speaker 2: much of my sixty five kilos plus thirty five Yeah,
Speaker 2: so it's pretty much one hundred kilo chin ups.
Speaker 1: So that's about adding Yeah, like thirty something per What
Speaker 1: is that like, No, that's more than half your body weight.
Speaker 2: It's like fifty of my body weight.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's heavy. That is that is firstly, anyone, firstly,
Speaker 1: just go and try. Now, if you're not a gym goer,
Speaker 1: clearly don't go and try. And you know, if you're
Speaker 1: not a gym goer, just try and hang from something.
Speaker 1: You know, the amount of people Bronte who can't and
Speaker 1: again this is not a slight it's just a matter
Speaker 1: of fact. The amount of people who can't even just
Speaker 1: hang and hold their body weight for like ten seconds
Speaker 1: is a lot of people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's It's something that I've been doing since I
Speaker 2: was a kid, so it's easier for me, right, But
Speaker 2: there's so many things that I can't do. Like lower
Speaker 2: body wise, I do a bit, but like that's probably
Speaker 2: like just your average gym goer could probably do better
Speaker 2: lower body stuff than me. Is very very special.
Speaker 1: Really, what kind of leg training do you do? Do
Speaker 1: you squat? Do you deadlift your leg? Do you what
Speaker 1: do you do?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I don't deadlift because my back doesn't love it,
Speaker 2: but I do like Bulgarian squats and sits down squats
Speaker 2: and like hip thrust stuff and jumps and all of that,
Speaker 2: So get strong and robust doing all of that as
Speaker 2: well as like a bunch of just those really little exercises,
Speaker 2: so lots of like monster walks and banded walks and
Speaker 2: all of that, getting all getting everything fired up properly.
Speaker 2: My biggest thing with gym is trying to make myself
Speaker 2: as strong as possible with as fewer injuries as possible.
Speaker 2: So a lot of my gym is doing all the
Speaker 2: little boring things as well. So I incorporate all lots
Speaker 2: of my physio exercises into the gym and incorporate them
Speaker 2: into the actual movements when I'm doing heavy stuff.
Speaker 1: Do you I was listening to you on The Imperfects
Speaker 1: last night. Great interview by the way, great chat, very vulnerable,
Speaker 1: They sound like fun. How many times have you been
Speaker 1: interviewed and spent ninety percent of the interview talking about
Speaker 1: your sister and your relationship with your sister?
Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot, like particularly at the start, like everyone's
Speaker 2: if I honestly had just just even not even a dollar,
Speaker 2: just fifty cents for it. The number of times people
Speaker 2: ask like, oh, how's the sibling rivalry, Like, I honestly
Speaker 2: I would be able to afford the house that I
Speaker 2: would have been rather than rent it. Like, but it's
Speaker 2: I totally get it as well, Like it is an
Speaker 2: unusual thing to have two sisters in the same event
Speaker 2: and to compete against each other, And I totally get
Speaker 2: the fascinations. So I don't really mind the questions. The
Speaker 2: only time that I minded if someone like can't really
Speaker 2: let it go. I've had a few interviews like that
Speaker 2: where they really really can't let go of it and
Speaker 2: they're like, but when are you going to beat her?
Speaker 2: When will you beat it? Don't you want to beat her?
Speaker 2: I'm like, are you kind of missing the point of
Speaker 2: what I'm saying is that we always had this dream
Speaker 2: to do this thing together. And it's like, for me,
Speaker 2: it's never been about like, oh, I step out, mind
Speaker 2: the blocks, and I'm trying to beat Kate that one person.
Speaker 2: I'm always trying to better myself and better the clock,
Speaker 2: and yes, beat every single person in the race if
Speaker 2: I can. But I'm not standing behind the blocks thinking
Speaker 2: about my sister in the way that some people get
Speaker 2: really fixated on it.
Speaker 1: It's so silly and also you were saying something like this,
Speaker 1: so clear clearly Kate is in the very best way
Speaker 1: of freak and you're also a freak, but in a loving,
Speaker 1: caring way. But you're talking about when you and like
Speaker 1: Kate would just maybe beat you in a race by
Speaker 1: whatever the smallest of margins, and people were like, you
Speaker 1: said that, talking about when you're going to beat it,
Speaker 1: when you're going to do this that it's like, but
Speaker 1: if she and your sister, like, you're literally better than
Speaker 1: everyone in the world in that moment in time except
Speaker 1: one person that happens to be your sister. And rather
Speaker 1: than people going what you're doing is fucking amazing, they're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but what about you said they were driving nuts?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it can be. It can be challenging, and it
Speaker 2: definitely has been in the past. That's it's very frustrating
Speaker 2: to not be seen in your own light. And I think, yeah,
Speaker 2: what I was talking about there was sometimes when I
Speaker 2: was literally second in the world but still not first
Speaker 2: in my family. So people would really hone in on that,
Speaker 2: just just constantly and just say things to you that
Speaker 2: you wouldn't really expect people to say. I mean, like
Speaker 2: if you were in in your average, your normal job,
Speaker 2: and you were second in the world at something people
Speaker 2: would probably congratulate you on that. They wouldn't come up
Speaker 2: to you and say, oh, you know, you got to
Speaker 2: simm a bit faster. You know, you got to beat
Speaker 2: her like while she's standing right next to me most
Speaker 2: of the time as well. And awkward, awkward for everyone.
Speaker 2: People say some pretty weird things to you, but it's
Speaker 2: you got to learn to deal with it over time,
Speaker 2: but it does. It is difficult when you know that
Speaker 2: everybody's comparing you to somebody else and you just like
Speaker 2: all of this is taking place while I was really young,
Speaker 2: like I was nineteen twenty twenty one, and you're kind
Speaker 2: of trying to figure out who you are as a person,
Speaker 2: and you're getting reminded every day that lots of people
Speaker 2: are seeing you in relation to someone else. So it
Speaker 2: makes it very difficult to figure out how you're seen
Speaker 2: just by yourself.
Speaker 1: And also, you know, the funny thing is that like
Speaker 1: the public, we might look on and go, you know,
Speaker 1: Caiten Brons and blah blah blah have a in our
Speaker 1: mind about you and your sister and whatever, and it
Speaker 1: might be unique or you know, weird in a good
Speaker 1: but for you, it's just completely normal. You've never known
Speaker 1: anything else, Like you one of five. Your sister swims fast,
Speaker 1: You swim fast, Like this is just you, this is
Speaker 1: just your life. It's only kind of wildly fascinating for
Speaker 1: people outside, you know, but you're like, yeah, it's not
Speaker 1: fascinating to me. It's just fucking Tuesday.
Speaker 2: Also, I love wildly fascinating because what I do in
Speaker 2: my life is not fascinating at all. Like if someone
Speaker 2: had to sit through the grind, that is the I
Speaker 2: mean in my training week, I got up to Tuesday
Speaker 2: then because like nobody wants to know what the rest
Speaker 2: of the week looks like, because I guess what, there's
Speaker 2: more of the thing. And then you just do that
Speaker 2: day in day out for months and years. And not
Speaker 2: only do you have to turn up to those sessions,
Speaker 2: but you have to make them quality sessions, Like they
Speaker 2: have to be of the highest quality. No point in
Speaker 2: going to a session if it's if you're not going
Speaker 2: to be giving one hundred percent to it. So you
Speaker 2: have to like mentally bring yourself there every single time
Speaker 2: you're there. At the pool, it's really boring. Everyone sees
Speaker 2: like an Olympic Games or a Comonwealth Games or something like,
Speaker 2: oh wow, that looks great, that looks fun. It's like, no,
Speaker 2: ninety nine point nine percent of the time, it is
Speaker 2: grinding and grinding when you really really don't feel like it.
Speaker 2: And that is that is what my life really looks like.
Speaker 2: So it's not it's really not very interesting except for
Speaker 2: when it's really interesting. So maybe it evens out.
Speaker 1: Well, what was the year and a half off? Like,
Speaker 1: I mean, I know you're still active, I know you
Speaker 1: still be becoming a better version of Steph Gilmour and
Speaker 1: all that and just making a killing in the corporate space,
Speaker 1: But what was it like for you? Was it weird?
Speaker 1: Was it a relief? Was it? What was it?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: It was it was a bit of everything. It was.
Speaker 2: It was very weird. It was great to not have
Speaker 2: to train, but at the same time, it was very
Speaker 2: hard to get out of the mindset of having to train.
Speaker 2: So I spent a lot of time like beating myself
Speaker 2: up that like, oh I wasn't doing enough. I didn't
Speaker 2: do like exercise today, and I was very used to exercise,
Speaker 2: being like I do four to six hours of exercise
Speaker 2: every day, So I was used to it being this
Speaker 2: thing that was really difficult, and it had to be
Speaker 2: difficult for it to be worth something, rather than like, Okay,
Speaker 2: you just moved your body today, that's fine, and realizing
Speaker 2: like when you're working a corporate job, like just getting
Speaker 2: out and moving your body can seem very difficult, like
Speaker 2: you're you're very stationary, You're at a desk so much.
Speaker 2: And I did struggle with being so still and then
Speaker 2: not being able to move around enough. And then if
Speaker 2: I did go exit, if I went for a surf
Speaker 2: for half an hour, I'd be like, oh, it wasn't
Speaker 2: good enough, Like I didn't do enough surf. Yea, my
Speaker 2: heart rate probably didn't get up. Was even worth it?
Speaker 2: Like it's it's hard to get out of that mindset
Speaker 2: of like reevaluate, evaluating what you're doing all the time
Speaker 2: and thinking that you should be better. And the same
Speaker 2: went for my job, which was a new thing to me.
Speaker 2: And I'm used to being able to check whether I'm
Speaker 2: good or bad at something like all the time. So
Speaker 2: in swimming, I like every single hundred meters, I can
Speaker 2: look at the clock and I can figure out how
Speaker 2: I'm swimming. I count my strokes every lapse, so I
Speaker 2: know how my stroke counts going. I know from like
Speaker 2: one stroke too many, or if I'm like feeling good
Speaker 2: and I'm one stroke less or whatever, like I like
Speaker 2: measure everything and then to go into a corporate environment
Speaker 2: and like you're doing a little bit of work and
Speaker 2: you look at it, you're like, Okay, I think that's great.
Speaker 2: I don't actually know I think it's good. Let me
Speaker 2: like send it off, let me get some feedback on it,
Speaker 2: and if it's and if it's possible, it'll just get accepted.
Speaker 2: And there's just not a lot of that same sort
Speaker 2: of self feedback that you can give yourself because you
Speaker 2: don't actually know what good looks like.
Speaker 1: It's hard to get hard data. Like we're swimming. It's
Speaker 1: like certain times, certain strokes, certain outcome, and it's it's
Speaker 1: there's no opinion in that, that's just data, right. But
Speaker 1: when it's a really kind of you know, you're doing
Speaker 1: a subjective thing and you're being objectively observed by others,
Speaker 1: and then you kind of got to look to them
Speaker 1: in some way when you're unsure in that space of
Speaker 1: how am I going.
Speaker 2: That's a new phenomenon, Yeah, it's new, and just even
Speaker 2: not one percent knowing what good looks like. It's like,
Speaker 2: go over crack at this, and I'm like, I don't
Speaker 2: even know what good looks like. I'm just going to
Speaker 2: do what I think is good and then well then
Speaker 2: we'll see what happened. So that was definitely different, and
Speaker 2: it was Yeah, it was a bit of a challenge
Speaker 2: figuring out how that works. But I really enjoyed it. Obviously,
Speaker 2: I like I like challenges, so I liked that it
Speaker 2: was challenging in that space. But it's I don't want
Speaker 2: to give people the impression that I left swimming, and
Speaker 2: to be honest, I wasn't always one hundred percent sure
Speaker 2: whether it was going to come back or not. And
Speaker 2: then it was just clean and plain sailing. Like particularly
Speaker 2: in the first few weeks, I think I turned into
Speaker 2: a little bit like I was a little bit erratic,
Speaker 2: as like Bart that was like, okay, just remember you've
Speaker 2: gone from doing like forty hours of exercise a week
Speaker 2: to now doing pretty much nothing, like even just within
Speaker 2: your body, like the amount of endorphins that you are
Speaker 2: used to versus what you're getting now, You're probably not
Speaker 2: going to be feeling absolutely great and energized even though
Speaker 2: you're doing less work, you're probably going to have less energy,
Speaker 2: which definitely reflected how I felt. So it's it was
Speaker 2: good that I had good people around me to sort
Speaker 2: of help me through it, because even though I had
Speaker 2: a good plan and everything, it was still it's still
Speaker 2: a tricky change.
Speaker 1: Well, and also considering that, so what were you twenty
Speaker 1: seven at that time?
Speaker 2: Twenty eight?
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, and you'd started swimming at seven, and
Speaker 1: from seven you wanted to be the bloody best, right
Speaker 1: you want to be an Olympian and a world champion. Really,
Speaker 1: so for twenty years your life had been consumed by
Speaker 1: this one thing, and then you're like, wow, I'm not
Speaker 1: doing that now. I mean it's like you're you know,
Speaker 1: you were kind of like an eighteen year old in
Speaker 1: some ways in that you're stepping into this new grown
Speaker 1: up world. Not that you hadn't been a grown up,
Speaker 1: but it's in a different area where you're like trying
Speaker 1: to figure shit out. So it must have been very
Speaker 1: hard to step out of that repetition and that groundhog
Speaker 1: daness of training and competing and sleeping and eating and recovering,
Speaker 1: and now you don't need to think about any of
Speaker 1: that Bronti. That must have been very strange.
Speaker 2: Yes, you can't just flick the switch and turn it off.
Speaker 2: And anytime I'd be doing something new, I'd be like, oh,
Speaker 2: this could be good for my swimming, it would be
Speaker 2: good for my training. It was like, no, you don't
Speaker 2: have to think about that anymore because you're so right, Like,
Speaker 2: not only is it the time in the pool, it's
Speaker 2: like the recovery time in between. Like every time I
Speaker 2: do something, I'm like, Okay, how will this set me
Speaker 2: up for my training session this afternoon? Should I do
Speaker 2: A or B? Should I walk to the shop or
Speaker 2: should I get my screwter down? Because like, how much
Speaker 2: do I think I'm going to need my legs tonight?
Speaker 2: Like every single decision I make is in the context
Speaker 2: of swimming, So you don't just like flick the switch
Speaker 2: and that completely turns off. It definitely takes a while
Speaker 2: to to start see your life in a different sort
Speaker 2: of context without swimming sort of looming over it.
Speaker 1: Did you feel guilty at any stage? Like when not
Speaker 1: that you should, of course, but when you've been doing
Speaker 1: something so much for so long, did you go, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm really I should be doing this. I should like
Speaker 1: just doing not that you were doing nothing, but in
Speaker 1: the swimming sense doing nothing and just teating the breaks.
Speaker 2: Well, I felt guilty like almost every day, like if
Speaker 2: I went for a walk instead of going for like
Speaker 2: a run, which by the way, I'm not a runner,
Speaker 2: so terrible idea. But yeah, like almost every day felt
Speaker 2: guilty about like I'm not doing enough, doing enough exercise.
Speaker 2: It's not like I'm not as fit as I should be. Oh,
Speaker 2: my body's going to change. Oh this is terrible. Like
Speaker 2: almost every day you're like evaluating yourself and being like,
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm not doing enough just because it's
Speaker 2: not what you used to do. And when the standard
Speaker 2: previously was enough training to be an Olympic athlete, you're
Speaker 2: probably never going to do that standard again. And at
Speaker 2: the same time, I didn't actually want to do that standard,
Speaker 2: like I wanted a break from it, but then you
Speaker 2: felt guilty because you weren't doing it. People are very complicated,
Speaker 2: Like that is It's a bit I was thinking two
Speaker 2: things at the same time, then saying I don't want
Speaker 2: to do that, and then feeling guilty for not doing it.
Speaker 1: And I'll laugh where you said you or not, you're
Speaker 1: not a natural runner. One hundred years ago. I used
Speaker 1: to train a lady called Tammy van Wissa. Do you
Speaker 1: know who that is? No, Tammy van Whissa was, for
Speaker 1: a very long time pre you Australia's pre eminent ocean swimmer,
Speaker 1: multiple world records, swam lock ness, you know all of
Speaker 1: that in that Susi Maroni era where and I remember
Speaker 1: tim I met her. She came to me and said
Speaker 1: all she did primarily when I met her was swim,
Speaker 1: not heaps of other training. This is in the nineties, right,
Speaker 1: so it's a long time ago. But the first day
Speaker 1: that I trained her, I said, well, we'll just do
Speaker 1: some different stuff, right, Let's just get out of she's
Speaker 1: or get out of the water, and let's just do
Speaker 1: things that you don't normally do cross training, so that
Speaker 1: stimulating your body in a different way. And before she came,
Speaker 1: before she came to the gym the day that the
Speaker 1: first time I ever trained it, she'd either swum three
Speaker 1: or five k's right, which for her was not a
Speaker 1: lot because she's an ocean swimmer, but or an open
Speaker 1: water swimmer. And so I said, well, let's just do
Speaker 1: a little run. There was a outside the gym out
Speaker 1: the front door around the block was one k. I said,
Speaker 1: let's do a lazy jog, will warm up, then we'll
Speaker 1: stretch and we'll do some other shit, and that one
Speaker 1: k jog Nelly killed her and it was so fucking
Speaker 1: and she's like, I'm not a runner. I don't like
Speaker 1: I'm aquatic, I'm not terrestrial. I don't you know, this
Speaker 1: is not my natural habitat put me in wi water,
Speaker 1: and it was so interesting for me to like this
Speaker 1: person who's highly trained, incredibly fit, resting heart rate of
Speaker 1: thirty eight, whatever, all that stuff. And then yeah, different environment,
Speaker 1: different task, different requirements physiologically. Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it.
Speaker 2: It's so interesting and very true that most swimmers just
Speaker 2: can barely do anything else. But it always blows my mind,
Speaker 2: like I think that I should be better at this
Speaker 2: stuff than I am, because like I said, I'm like
Speaker 2: objectively quite fit, But then you put me on like
Speaker 2: the ground and asked me to run somewhere, and I
Speaker 2: just find it's so difficult, and like I don't even
Speaker 2: know what it is like every I think it's embarrassing
Speaker 2: because like, not everybody learns to swim, and not everybody
Speaker 2: is in a swimming environment during their life. But like
Speaker 2: every single person, like most people, if you've got two
Speaker 2: legs and you're able to walk around, you walk around
Speaker 2: like you walk around, you run around when you're a kid.
Speaker 2: Like everyone's done this at some point, So the fact
Speaker 2: that they can't do it is like pretty abysmal.
Speaker 1: You can run five ks though, right, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I mean definitely I don't. I honestly don't know like
Speaker 2: to find running like I could like get myself through
Speaker 2: that that's fine, But I think my actual problem is
Speaker 2: probably my problem in general, as they go too hard
Speaker 2: too early. So I think like running is like sprinting,
Speaker 2: but it's not always If you're going to run five
Speaker 2: k'd run a bit slower.
Speaker 1: Are you telling me that you were saying before that
Speaker 1: you count your strokes when you swim. Are you telling
Speaker 1: me that when you're competing you're literally counting your strokes?
Speaker 2: Yeah, lots of the time I do, so occasionally I won't,
Speaker 2: or I'll count in a different way, Like I'll count
Speaker 2: like in between my breaths, So if I was in
Speaker 2: one hundred, like I might count like one, two, three, four.
Speaker 2: I normally breathe fours and then the way back, I'd
Speaker 2: be like a three or four, six or six or
Speaker 2: four and then like fifteen strokes to the end, so
Speaker 2: I'll count those, or I'll count like one to thirty
Speaker 2: six on the way out and then like it's like
Speaker 2: normally one to forty or forty one on the way back.
Speaker 2: So yes, I do. It's a habit that have gotten
Speaker 2: into When I was younger, it was sort of drilled
Speaker 2: into me. It's very hard to count your strokes while
Speaker 2: you're racing, but I got used to doing it. And see,
Speaker 2: most of the time I do.
Speaker 1: Apart from your sister, person you most admire in the pool,
Speaker 1: like that or that inspires you or that was the
Speaker 1: biggest influence on you. Another swimmer, not a coach, not
Speaker 1: a family member, but another swimmer that you go, fuck,
Speaker 1: I love that person. They inspire me or they helped
Speaker 1: me to greatness.
Speaker 2: Good question. I probably don't have like one single person,
Speaker 2: but I do try and take things from lots of
Speaker 2: people constantly, particularly when I started dealing with injury, Like
Speaker 2: I would go talk to people who had been injured
Speaker 2: and just pick up little pieces from them. And I
Speaker 2: think in general, someone like so one of my good
Speaker 2: friends in swimming. Her name's Lea Neil. She has been
Speaker 2: on the team for six, seven, maybe even eight years.
Speaker 2: I don't even remember when she first made the team
Speaker 2: in the four hundred freestyle, ton a freestyle, turn a
Speaker 2: freestyle relays. Like someone like Leah who just like goes
Speaker 2: about her business quietly gets her all done. Someone like
Speaker 2: that who's none of us are really in it for
Speaker 2: the glory, but some of us get to have the glory.
Speaker 2: Like I don't think anyone starts them because they want
Speaker 2: to be like this big famous person. They start something
Speaker 2: because they love the sport and they love being able
Speaker 2: to do well at it. But a lot of like
Speaker 2: I've been so lucky that I've had like great sponsors
Speaker 2: in my time. I've had a lot of recognition for
Speaker 2: the work that I've done. But someone like Leah, who
Speaker 2: most people wouldn't know, even though she's at the top
Speaker 2: of her sport for six or seven years, it just
Speaker 2: gets it every day and gets it done and tries
Speaker 2: to be her best every day without there being this
Speaker 2: big external validation. Someone like her, like watching her do
Speaker 2: her stuff is like, yeah, that's that's what it's actually
Speaker 2: all about. So being able to pick up little things
Speaker 2: from other people, is like sort of how I like
Speaker 2: to operate, and just asking questions from people. When I
Speaker 2: was younger, I would like so afraid of asking people questions.
Speaker 2: I thought it made me look like stupid. You're like, oh,
Speaker 2: I don't know I'm asking a question. But as I've
Speaker 2: got it older, I'm like, oh, this is fascinating to
Speaker 2: just ask as many questions as possible, even if you
Speaker 2: may know you think you know the answer, maybe you
Speaker 2: don't know the answer. So I spent a lot of
Speaker 2: time asking people, Oh, why are you doing that? What
Speaker 2: are you doing that Forlorence? Pick up lots of things
Speaker 2: along the way, And do you you.
Speaker 1: And k trying together these days or separately?
Speaker 2: No, we trained separately now for the first time in
Speaker 2: our careers. So we trained together from when we were
Speaker 2: seven and nine until we were twenty eight and thirty.
Speaker 2: And yeah, now our coach that we were with for
Speaker 2: all that time, so we're the same coach for twenty
Speaker 2: one years. He's retired from swimming and from pull deck coaching.
Speaker 2: He's moved into another role and so now we're training
Speaker 2: in different states. So Kate's training up in Brisbane, and
Speaker 2: I meant Canberra at the AES for sure, rollingson, How.
Speaker 1: Would you describe We're nearly done, don't worry, I'll let
Speaker 1: you off the stand in a moment. How would you
Speaker 1: describe your relationship with her? Just in terms of is
Speaker 1: it a typical sisterly relationship?
Speaker 2: Is it?
Speaker 1: Well, it can't be because of your background, I guess,
Speaker 1: but how is it?
Speaker 2: No, it's it's fairly typical. It's I mean, it was
Speaker 2: probably very different for a long time, and that we
Speaker 2: saw each other every single day, regardless of whether you
Speaker 2: made time for each other. So it's actually nice now
Speaker 2: and that we've got I mean, obviously I miss her,
Speaker 2: miss having her arounds, but it's also nice that because
Speaker 2: we have space, it means that we we intentionally seek
Speaker 2: out each other, which is very different from just it's
Speaker 2: sort of like those incidental friends that you have at
Speaker 2: school when you do them every day versus like you
Speaker 2: make time for them. And so it's really nice that
Speaker 2: give cat call and run away to and from training
Speaker 2: and have a little chain Adams. In October, we're about
Speaker 2: to head overseas and do World Cup competition. So there's
Speaker 2: like these three competitions in Berlin, Athens and Budapest, and
Speaker 2: she's going to be away on that trip with me,
Speaker 2: so I get to hang out and spend some time together.
Speaker 2: So I would say our relationship now is probably more
Speaker 2: normal than it was in the past, because I don't
Speaker 2: think many people see their siblings as grown ups every
Speaker 2: single day, whereas now I think we have probably a
Speaker 2: bit more of a normal relationship. We used to see
Speaker 2: each other every day, and we used to live together
Speaker 2: like when I was what nineteen until I was twenty two,
Speaker 2: so we saw a lot of each other at one point,
Speaker 2: which was probably not what your average sibling would do.
Speaker 1: Are you saying you're a grown up now? Is that
Speaker 1: what you're saying?
Speaker 2: For the record, yes I am a grown up officially. Yes, officially,
Speaker 2: yes I'm a grown up. But we'll see how that
Speaker 2: actually pans out. I can't ever seem to get on
Speaker 2: top of my washing, Like that's like the still the
Speaker 2: one growing up activity that Like why are there always
Speaker 2: more Washington do? Like either always dirty in the machine
Speaker 2: all there's like stuff to be folded, like it never
Speaker 2: ever ends, like when does it finish?
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're definitely not a domestic goddess him How last question,
Speaker 1: what have you got to do to get to Paris.
Speaker 1: What's going to happen between now and then, So this
Speaker 1: next bit.
Speaker 2: Of competitions are really important for me, in my first
Speaker 2: real long course competition since I've come back, so a
Speaker 2: really good time to take stock of where I'm at,
Speaker 2: and then just a bunch more training to actually qualify
Speaker 2: for the Olympics is in June next year Olympic Trials.
Speaker 2: It's the one off competition, so realistically, it doesn't really
Speaker 2: matter what I do and the lead into that, it's
Speaker 2: just that one competition. You have to finish first or
Speaker 2: second in your event and swim the top eight time
Speaker 2: in the world, which in my events you have to
Speaker 2: swim the top three time in the world in order
Speaker 2: to come first or seconds. And then for the relay events,
Speaker 2: for the hundred, there's a relay spot which is normally
Speaker 2: from like first to fifth or sixth place, and that's it.
Speaker 2: It's just cut and dry, very very easy to evaluate
Speaker 2: where you are on the day. But it's just down
Speaker 2: to that one race, whether you go to the Olympics
Speaker 2: or not.
Speaker 1: That's such a crazy, crazy level of pressure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not nice. Actually, Trials, trials, Trials is not nice.
Speaker 2: But to be fair, it's a very cutthroat way of
Speaker 2: like picking someone for a team. But the Olympics is
Speaker 2: also like that, so you really want people that can
Speaker 2: perform under pressure, like sort of what you're alluding to before.
Speaker 2: If you can make it through the trials and make
Speaker 2: it through this environment. The Olympics was once every four years,
Speaker 2: and you also only get one shot at that, so
Speaker 2: it does sort of you sort of learn how to
Speaker 2: deal with those high pressure situations by doing things like
Speaker 2: trials or by doing the things that qualify you for it.
Speaker 2: So you sort of like love up every time you're
Speaker 2: going through the process.
Speaker 1: Are you heading out now for a bacon and egg roll?
Speaker 2: No? I already had a bacon negro. Yeah, I need
Speaker 2: to go to that.
Speaker 1: You see that face, Melissa that you know I already
Speaker 1: had it. I already had it.
Speaker 2: Now I got to go to the gym, so I'll
Speaker 2: work off the bacon egg roll. I love bacon egg rolls.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you go and get massive. Bro. Hey Bronti, you're
Speaker 1: a treasure and congratulations on everything that you've done. Super
Speaker 1: not that it means anything from me, but's super proud
Speaker 1: of you. It's awesome. Thank you for representing our country
Speaker 1: as well as you have. And thanks for being like
Speaker 1: so accessible and so lovely to talk to. It's rare,
Speaker 1: so we appreciate you.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's very kind to say. Thank you. Thanks so
Speaker 2: much showing me and well, it's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, unless you didn't do much lifting game, will you.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. That was awesome.
Speaker 1: Stay there, we'll say goodbye fair but for the moment, Bronti,
Speaker 1: thanks so much.