WEBVTT - Albo’s gambling ad gamble: too little too late? 0:00:01.280 --> 0:00:09.840 I'm Daniel James and you're listening to seven AM. For years, 0:00:10.160 --> 0:00:13.880 gambling advertising has spread far beyond the outbreak, becoming a 0:00:13.920 --> 0:00:17.640 familiar part of how Australians watch sport, follow news about sport, 0:00:18.120 --> 0:00:22.160 and spend time online. Three years after the Murphery Review 0:00:22.239 --> 0:00:26.279 called for a comprehensive ban, the Albanezi government has finally responded, 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:29.600 but the government's plan to reign in online gambling advertising 0:00:29.840 --> 0:00:33.960 has drawn sharp criticism, with campaigners and cross benches arguing 0:00:33.960 --> 0:00:37.680 it falls well short of what was recommended, and in 0:00:37.720 --> 0:00:40.920 that gap, a bigger fighters opened up about how deeply 0:00:40.960 --> 0:00:46.440 betting has worked its way into Australian media and Australians' lives. Today, 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:50.440 Krikey Media reporter Danny Say on the government's plan to 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:54.040 reduce gambling ads and why it's longer waited response is 0:00:54.160 --> 0:01:09.640 already under fire. It's Friday, April seventeen, Danni. Gambling ads 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:13.400 are everywhere. It's impossible to listen to a sports podcast 0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:17.360 in Australia that it isn't sponsored by a sports betting company. 0:01:18.000 --> 0:01:19.880 But it's not just sports podcasts. A lot of other 0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:24.080 podcasts of villas and YouTube serve an absurd amount of gambling. 0:01:23.760 --> 0:01:27.399 Ads, multis or build your own combining player markets like 0:01:27.440 --> 0:01:29.039 total goals disposals. 0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:32.560 Even Karl Stefanovic's new YouTube show is sponsored by a 0:01:32.600 --> 0:01:36.119 sports betting company. Being a man that may well fit 0:01:36.160 --> 0:01:39.680 into the target demographic for this, I'm sure you've noticed 0:01:39.680 --> 0:01:40.200 the same thing. 0:01:40.520 --> 0:01:44.280 Yeah, absolutely, Daniel. It kind of blows my mind a 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:47.520 little bit. That's even people who I've spoken through in 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:49.800 the gambling industry who make their living off of this, 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:55.960 who are absolutely incentivized in the most literal sense to 0:01:56.000 --> 0:01:59.360 continue the bombardment of gambling ads that we do have 0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:01.840 have come out said I am gone on the record 0:02:01.880 --> 0:02:05.400 and said, okay, it's a bit much. And I can't 0:02:05.480 --> 0:02:07.760 think of a single other industry where we've reached a 0:02:07.880 --> 0:02:11.920 level of saturation where people employed by the industry say 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:17.400 the advertising for their livelihood is a bit much. Vested 0:02:17.480 --> 0:02:19.840 interests is a powerful thing. It's extraordinary when you go 0:02:19.919 --> 0:02:20.480 too far. 0:02:20.840 --> 0:02:23.760 So to address this torrent of gambling ads that we 0:02:23.840 --> 0:02:26.240 see on every screen we look at. Just before the 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:29.680 Easter break, the federal government finally announced its planned around 0:02:29.720 --> 0:02:33.560 gambling ad restrictions, something that advocates and campaigners have been 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:34.720 waiting three years for. 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:39.080 We are getting the balance right, letting adults have a 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:42.359 punt if they want to, but making sure that our 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:45.080 children don't see betting ads everywhere they look. 0:02:46.400 --> 0:02:49.840 So remind me and those listening to this, what was 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:52.200 actually announced by the Alberanza government on this front. 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:56.119 Yeah, so there's a couple of top line reforms and 0:02:56.160 --> 0:02:59.839 we're going to get a better idea of them sort 0:02:59.840 --> 0:03:02.520 of in the next sitting week. Conveniently that'll also get 0:03:02.520 --> 0:03:06.200 overshadowed by the federal budget. But we're looking at a 0:03:06.240 --> 0:03:09.560 restriction on gambling advertising on broadcast television to know more 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:12.240 than three ads an hour between six am and eight 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:13.239 thirty pm. 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:17.200 We will ban all gambling ads on radio during school 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:18.880 pickup and drop off. 0:03:19.720 --> 0:03:21.560 We're going to see a banning of gambling ads on 0:03:21.560 --> 0:03:25.280 online platforms unless you have a long DIN account over 0:03:25.360 --> 0:03:28.400 eighteen and have the option to opt out of gambling advertising. 0:03:28.440 --> 0:03:30.480 So that sounds it's a little bit in the weeds, 0:03:30.800 --> 0:03:34.360 and there's probably some bits and pieces to work through 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:35.800 there and some moving parts there. 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:41.480 We will ban cross promotion content that mixers commentary with odds, 0:03:41.760 --> 0:03:46.839 will end advertising on jerseys and jumpers and in stadiums, 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:47.920 and will ban. 0:03:48.360 --> 0:03:49.560 But there was a report that came out in the 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:52.640 last couple of days that said that enerl clubs will 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:55.320 be allowed to sort of see out the duration of 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:57.360 those deals. So these reforms are going to kick in 0:03:57.400 --> 0:04:00.600 from the first of January twenty twenty seven. A lot 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:03.080 of those gambling deals relating to uniforms and so on 0:04:03.520 --> 0:04:05.280 sort of extend beyond that, and they'll be allowed to 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:06.360 sort of see those out. 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:09.440 So while it sounds like there's a fair bit going 0:04:09.440 --> 0:04:12.720 on with these reforms, it's still a pretty watered down 0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:16.160 version of what Peter Murphy in her inquiry was recommending. 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:21.359 If the status quo on online gambling regulation, including but 0:04:21.560 --> 0:04:27.400 certainly not limited to advertising, was to continue, Australians will 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:32.120 continue to lose more, more money, more relationships, more love 0:04:32.240 --> 0:04:37.240 sport for the game rather than for the odds. 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:42.640 It's been really widely criticized. It's been criticized by all 0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:46.760 sides of politics, and noting that Peter Murphy's sort of 0:04:46.960 --> 0:04:50.640 committee that put this report together back in during twenty 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:54.840 twenty three was bipartisan committee and had people from both 0:04:54.880 --> 0:04:58.080 sides of politics. But the Manifay report said that partial 0:04:58.120 --> 0:05:01.200 bands on advertising don't work it's really clear about that. 0:05:01.240 --> 0:05:04.279 It's a fair deal of research on that. We know 0:05:04.320 --> 0:05:07.600 that this is a parcelband. We know that the Murphy 0:05:07.600 --> 0:05:11.599 Report called for a national regulator, and there's no mention 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:14.200 of that. There might well still be a response to that, 0:05:14.279 --> 0:05:17.000 but this announcement so far doesn't mention it. There's also 0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:20.200 no mention of inducements, so things like bonus bets and 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:25.080 bet returns, things that sort of keep gamblers or customers 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:31.479 money cycling through betting apps and betting platforms. Those were 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:34.719 recommended to be outright banned by the Murphy Report. There's 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:38.200 no mention of that in this suite of reforms that 0:05:38.240 --> 0:05:39.200 the government's announced. 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:41.800 The fact that it's taken so long, Dannie and it's 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:45.120 so watered down from what the Murphy Review recommended, does 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:47.760 that show how influential the gambling lobby is in Australia. 0:05:47.800 --> 0:05:51.279 I mean, just how hard has the campaign against these 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:52.080 reforms being. 0:05:52.880 --> 0:05:57.279 It's been really, really hard. I think it does. That's 0:05:57.320 --> 0:06:00.400 the criticism that has been put to me by adverts 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:03.640 by MPs, by the cross bench, by members of the 0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:06.920 Labor Party, both sort of in the parliament and outsided 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:09.760 from the rank and file, that are pushing for reform. 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:12.600 This has been a really consistent criticism that the government 0:06:12.640 --> 0:06:15.200 has a really close relationship with the gambling lobby. And 0:06:15.240 --> 0:06:17.560 not just the gambling lobby. There are other stakeholders through 0:06:17.560 --> 0:06:19.719 that the government has close relationships with that it doesn't 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:22.760 want to jeopardize, so things like broadcasters that rely on 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:26.000 the advertising revenue, things like the sporting codes themselves. 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:29.159 Broadcasters are hooked on this revenue, now, aren't they. 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:31.680 Yes, broadcasters are hooked on this as well. And they've 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:34.479 sort of flagged that there might be changes to revenue 0:06:34.480 --> 0:06:37.640 models and so on, or warned or threatened that there 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:41.000 might be changes to staff, or to revenue models or 0:06:41.080 --> 0:06:44.880 to how aughts of programming. I think that's a bit 0:06:44.920 --> 0:06:47.160 of an empty threat. A lot of these broadcasters are 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:50.520 doing very well for themselves, and as we speak, Peter 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:52.520 landers Is, the chair of the Ruguy League Commission, has 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:55.040 been given quotes to the newsp papers about the massive 0:06:55.720 --> 0:06:58.880 multi billion dollar deal, the broadcast deal that he's ready 0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:02.760 to sign and has many many sushes for so cynically, 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:04.640 I would say they'll do just fine. 0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:07.720 You mentioned that there's been some voluntary action from some 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:12.520 of the betting agencies because during that long delay in 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:17.200 the response to these proposed reforms, these recommendations, have the 0:07:17.200 --> 0:07:20.360 gambling companies built ways to potentially get around these bands 0:07:20.400 --> 0:07:24.080 and reach customers. Because it seems like, as you said, already, 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:26.800 most of the sports gambling companies have their own podcasts, 0:07:26.920 --> 0:07:31.280 their own content channels with subscribers and followers. Would those 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:36.720 things be defined as advertisements in relation to these reforms. 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:41.080 We're not entirely clear on that yet. Like the short 0:07:41.120 --> 0:07:43.840 answer is yes, they'll probably try to get around them 0:07:43.840 --> 0:07:45.840 in some form. This is part of the reason why 0:07:46.440 --> 0:07:49.480 a partial band doesn't work, and this is why say 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:51.920 partial bands don't work, just because gambling companies find new 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:54.560 and creative ways to get around them. The gambling companies 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:57.920 have already like bobbied really really hard on this over 0:07:57.960 --> 0:08:02.760 the last three years. In August twenty twenty four, it 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:07.280 was reported that the then Communications Minister now the Attorney General, 0:08:07.320 --> 0:08:10.040 Michelle Roland, had sort of met with a number of stakeholders, 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:14.040 including the big wagering companies, and the proposal at the 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:17.960 time was something to the effect of two gambling ads 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:21.280 an hour. It was then reported in January that Anthony 0:08:21.280 --> 0:08:23.440 Albanize had come over the top of Major Captain's call 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:28.200 and vetoed gambling advertising reform before the twenty twenty five election. 0:08:28.880 --> 0:08:30.520 Now we're an early twenty twenty six to three a 0:08:30.600 --> 0:08:32.600 year on from that election. We've seen a new minister 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:36.319 and the proposal now is three gambling ads, so it's 0:08:36.320 --> 0:08:39.679 an additional ad per hour on what gambling companies were 0:08:39.720 --> 0:08:42.080 sort of already exposed to. So there's a criticism that 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:45.800 has come with this latest suite of reforms from gambling 0:08:45.840 --> 0:08:48.520 companies that all we were consulted on these changes and 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:50.560 the reality is that gambling companies have been consulted in 0:08:50.600 --> 0:08:53.560 quite some depth a really significant period of time, so 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:56.240 they're very aware of the machinations of this. 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:11.720 Coming up, how gambling has become part of Australian sport Danney. 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:14.760 These reforms are still yet to get through Parliament. The 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:17.720 Greens and Independence like David Panncock are unhappy with what's 0:09:17.760 --> 0:09:21.840 been announced. Is there any real chance that these reforms 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:23.880 get strengthened from here? 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:27.439 See this is I think really interesting. The short answers, 0:09:27.520 --> 0:09:32.880 I don't know. The longer answer is maybe the coalitions 0:09:32.920 --> 0:09:36.560 sort of very broadly support gambley advertising reform. It's not 0:09:36.640 --> 0:09:39.440 really clear where they sit on this current announcement, but 0:09:39.840 --> 0:09:41.680 it's worth bearing in mind. And again this sort of 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:44.960 highlights the absurdity of how long this government has taken 0:09:45.080 --> 0:09:47.920 that they were outflanked to the left by Peter Dutton 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:52.120 and Sports Bear. But Peter Dutton came out a long 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:54.240 time ago in twenty twenty three, I think I think 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:57.599 it was semberish and came out and said we're in 0:09:57.640 --> 0:10:01.000 support of gambling advertising reform. We think it's much The 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:04.920 government could very well take coalition support for this set 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:07.760 of reforms and take it through the Senate, but the 0:10:07.800 --> 0:10:11.000 Greens are really critical of the proposal as it stands Now, 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:13.800 if you get the Green support, you're more or less through, 0:10:14.280 --> 0:10:17.599 but they would want to see it significantly strengthened. The 0:10:18.360 --> 0:10:20.960 Green spokes Ferston on this Siah Hanson Young is called 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:24.640 the government squips on this suite of reforms. They really 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:27.480 don't think it goes far enough. Have some guts. 0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:33.240 Just like they complained and squealed about tobacco, they're squealing 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:36.000 and complaining and excusing about. 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:40.959 Likewise. David Pocock one of the three independents in the 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:44.480 Upper House. He's been one of its most vocal critics. 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:47.480 The Albanezy government has failed Australians when it comes to 0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:49.600 banning gambling advertising. 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:53.720 Lydia Thorpe, obviously an independent form of Green, has previously 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:56.319 called for a total ad band hasn't sort of said 0:10:56.360 --> 0:10:59.800 anything in detail yet Jackie Lamby has consistently voted in 0:10:59.840 --> 0:11:01.400 face of gambling advertising reform. 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:04.360 You'd rather take those Stone nations than worry about the 0:11:04.400 --> 0:11:07.440 future of our kids. You are absolutely you should not 0:11:07.520 --> 0:11:09.560 be sitting in this place. You should not be a 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:12.640 representative in Parliament. I'll say that right now. 0:11:12.960 --> 0:11:14.079 You are doing nothing. 0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:16.640 But hurting our Australian kids and their families. 0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:20.360 And then One Nation is a bit of a wire 0:11:20.480 --> 0:11:23.000 card in the sense you've got four sentences, but many 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:24.920 of them are actually just never in the Senate, so 0:11:24.960 --> 0:11:27.400 it's not super clear where one Nation stand at the moment. 0:11:27.800 --> 0:11:29.200 The other thing I wanted to speak to you about 0:11:29.280 --> 0:11:32.880 Danny Wall We've got you is Nick Foot, the afl umpire. 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:36.760 His employment with sports Bet has recently come under the spotlight, 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:39.199 and of course there's no suggestion that Foot has done 0:11:39.200 --> 0:11:42.680 anything wrong, but it does feel like an example of 0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:46.679 how deeply ingrained gambling has become spot absolutely. 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:50.880 There was a great analysis piece by the ABC's Cart Pollard, 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:54.520 who's one of their digital sport editors, on this, and 0:11:54.960 --> 0:11:58.960 he makes the point that it is absurd and the 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:01.640 obsurdity of it been highlighted now that this story has 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:06.640 become a national issue and NRL communities, people above the 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:11.760 Barrassi line have sort of expressed to me, this is insane. 0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:13.520 How do you have an umpire whose. 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:18.440 Fell out of my chair when I heard that we 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:22.120 had an umpire employed by a gambling agency. 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:27.000 The AFL's rationalist that he analyzes racing, he doesn't do football, 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:30.400 and obviously there are a number of integrity scandals over 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:34.560 the years involving brown lows, involving umpires and votes and 0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:38.800 so on. The AFL were previously comfortable with it. My 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:41.760 understanding is they might be a little bit less comfortable 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:45.400 now in AFL house. But whether that leads Channing change 0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:47.840 is another thing. He's been reappointed for this weekend's game 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:51.199 again between gold Coaster and Essenden, And it's also worth 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:55.320 noting that AFL umpires aren't full time professionals, so there 0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:58.800 is a necessity of umpires needing to earn a living 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:03.320 wage by other means it's been a long term debate 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:06.640 in the AFL about making umpires full term professionals, and 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:09.160 one of the things that we mitigate is situations like 0:13:09.240 --> 0:13:10.839 this in integrity concerns. 0:13:11.480 --> 0:13:14.600 So, finally, Dannie, is this now bigger than a simple 0:13:14.640 --> 0:13:18.040 advertising debate? Is it really a question about whether Australian 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:22.280 sport has become too culturally and commercially entangled with betting 0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:25.000 And does it seem to you like labor is trying 0:13:25.040 --> 0:13:28.520 to make gambling ads less visible without really addressing the 0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:30.920 harms that online gambling has on Australians. 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:36.440 Yes, I think this debate is one of like fundamentally, 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:38.280 when you when you sit down in the pub with 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:42.560 a beer and you have this conversation with punters. They 0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:46.120 do see this as a debate around what gambling's relationship 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:49.320 is like relatives of sport. And we've sort of seen 0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:52.360 the effects of it going unregulated in the United States, 0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:57.560 who sort of en mass deregulated sports betting over the 0:13:57.600 --> 0:14:01.600 last few years, and it has seen a losion of 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:05.520 a of revenue, be of just a complete change in 0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:08.000 how sport is presented in the United States. And I 0:14:08.040 --> 0:14:10.400 would argue that most strangers don't necessarily want to see 0:14:10.480 --> 0:14:12.839 us go down that path. And this is I think 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:15.920 the politics of it anything other easys relied on for 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:19.280 a really long time, and I don't think it hits 0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:22.640 the same anymore. Is he said? Oh well, I want 0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:24.600 to protect the right of Australians to have a punt. 0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:28.800 I endorse free choice for responsible adults, and no one's 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:33.800 questioning that, of course. But I think that line must 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:35.680 have had some sort of cut through and whatever focus 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:39.640 script Labor Party had for it, I wonder whether it 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:44.840 will continue. I struggle with the idea that the current 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:47.360 state of affairs can can continue, and I suspect most 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:48.760 Australians do as well. 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:51.840 Donny, thank you so much for your time. 0:14:52.080 --> 0:15:00.040 Thank you so much for having me mate. 0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:05.040 Also, in the years the PM is wanted, there will 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:08.600 be consequences for our fuel supply. After a massive blaze 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:12.880 at one of only two Australian oil refineries, the Geelong Refinery, 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:16.600 which supplies ten percent of the country's fuel, has temporarily 0:15:16.680 --> 0:15:20.880 slashed production of petrol, diesel and jet fuel. Workers were 0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:23.200 forced to flee from what's been described as a bloody 0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:27.760 big fireball. Fortunately no one was hurt. An anti protest 0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:30.720 laws brought in after the Bondai terror attack have been 0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:33.640 struck down by New South Wales's highest court, in a 0:15:33.720 --> 0:15:36.800 major loss for the men's government. The law, which effectively 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:39.320 meant protesters could not march with that risk of arrest, 0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:44.080 was challenged by three activist groups, the Black Caucus, Palestine 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:47.640 Action Group and Jews Against the Occupation. The Court of 0:15:47.680 --> 0:15:52.000 Appeal found the Public Assembly Restriction Declaration, or PARD as 0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:56.240 it was known, infringed on protesters constitutional right to freedom 0:15:56.240 --> 0:16:01.120 of communication on government and political matters. I'm Daniel James. 0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:04.280 Thanks for listening to seven AM. We'll be back tomorrow.