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Speaker 1: Ecal transplant studies are cool because they can show these

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Speaker 1: really quid changes. But we don't need fecal transplants to

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Speaker 1: change the microbiome, you know, getting in nature, eating the

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Speaker 1: right food for medicine, and to use lots of prebodis

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Speaker 1: to help speed that process along too. There's so much

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Speaker 1: we can do that don't the big of a fecal transplant.

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Speaker 2: Everyone. Before we get into this week's podcast, we got

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Speaker 2: a pretty cool announcement to make you are not able

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Speaker 2: to connect with us. We have a pretty cool little

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Speaker 2: widget that's on the website. Just go to poletailor dot

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Speaker 2: biz Forward Slash Podcast and near the top of the

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Speaker 2: page you'll see a little icon that says send a

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Speaker 2: message to the Pole Tailor podcast. And so what we

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Speaker 2: can do with that You just click on that and

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Speaker 2: then you send us an audio message and we will

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Speaker 2: get the audio message. The first thing I want to

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Speaker 2: do with using it is actually do and ask me

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Speaker 2: anything episode. So all you gotta do if you got

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Speaker 2: a question that we want me to cover is just

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Speaker 2: go to Paul Taylor dot b is z Forward Slash podcast,

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Speaker 2: you know, and start the recording and then send us

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Speaker 2: and they ask me anything and leave your name. We

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Speaker 2: will call it out on the show. I'll get that

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Speaker 2: all put together. And the other thing you can do

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Speaker 2: is just leave us a message about what you like

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Speaker 2: about the podcast, what you don't like about the podcast,

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Speaker 2: that I talk too much, all of that sort of stuff,

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Speaker 2: and just give us some feedback and we will use

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Speaker 2: that to continuously improve. So looking forward to hearing from

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Speaker 2: you now. I hover the podcast, Jason, horrible act. Hopefully

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Speaker 2: I didn't murder your surname there. Welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I think you know.

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Speaker 2: No, it was good, So may we both presented. You

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Speaker 2: wouldn't see me present because you were in Italy and

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Speaker 2: you did a virtual but present at the Acronum conference.

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Speaker 2: And I've seen you bunching around a whole eap of

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Speaker 2: different comforts as your utraine clinicians, mostly around the whole

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Speaker 2: got microbiome. But just give our listeners a sense of

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Speaker 2: your background and how you really got into the microbiome

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Speaker 2: and what you do right now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, now, thank you. I studied natropathic medicine naturopothy

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Speaker 1: in Australia, Sorted ninety six mission ninety nine and one

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Speaker 1: of the last terms of my four year undergrad course,

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Speaker 1: there was a lectury of my mind when our professors

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Speaker 1: are on dyspouses and how disposus was causing ch chronic disease.

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Speaker 1: This was back in nineteen ninety nine. Is to give

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Speaker 1: some against some context around this, because this has been

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Speaker 1: discussed in the naturopathic struggles for a long time, even

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Speaker 1: though we didn't nessarily have the same science as we

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Speaker 1: do now in the same understanding, but there's a certainly

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Speaker 1: understanding of altered microbiome causing disease. That's been part of

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Speaker 1: natropathic philosophy. For god, there's some writers talking about the

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Speaker 1: early nineteen hundreds again giving some context on that. So

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Speaker 1: it's long been part of naturalathic thinking. It's just that

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Speaker 1: now with the boom and science, we can just see

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Speaker 1: all these different interactions and see what microps are doing,

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Speaker 1: whether we could not see in the past. Anyway, this

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Speaker 1: lecture was totally inspiring to me, so I went up

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Speaker 1: to write after and said, hey, you know, I just

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Speaker 1: went to finish and I was like, can I do

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Speaker 1: my honors agree in this in this area of dys biosis,

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Speaker 1: And then we got together and we did, and we

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Speaker 1: tried to pick a disease that was at that point

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Speaker 1: in time shown to have a dis body element, and

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Speaker 1: that was Irrito boal syndrome. You know, if you look

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Speaker 1: at the diseases that even in the nineties we knew

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Speaker 1: altered microbiome composition were positive or specifically you know, played

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Speaker 1: a key role. In IBS was like the poster child

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Speaker 1: at that point. There's also you know, in flowery biole

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Speaker 1: disease and a couple others, but i'd defy, yeah, that's right. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was another option. But we chose IBS because it

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Speaker 1: really was not being handled very well by connition medicine

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Speaker 1: and arty still isn't. And we're like, okay, well let's

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Speaker 1: focus on that. So I did my honors degree looking

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Speaker 1: at how probotics in probodics and herbs would modify the

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Speaker 1: microbiome in patients with IBS, and then we followed up

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Speaker 1: with my PhD after that points. So you know, spending

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Speaker 1: this is now nearly twenty five years since that started.

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Speaker 1: My sort of honors thesis. Literaty Review was back in

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Speaker 1: like probably December of twenty nineteen, sorry, nineteen ninety nine.

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Speaker 1: Delving into the microbiome and how could we could alter

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Speaker 1: the composition of the microbiome with through dietary changes, through prebodics,

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Speaker 1: her medicines, and then also probotics. And since then, you know,

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Speaker 1: I did my PhD in that area, I've been teaching.

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Speaker 1: Now I focus on teaching other clinicians to become what

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Speaker 1: we call, you know, microbiome clinicians or micro literate clinicians,

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Speaker 1: because it's still an area that is barely touched on

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Speaker 1: in the training of conventional health professionals. But even in

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Speaker 1: I would say natural pass like it makes up a

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Speaker 1: much more bigger percentage, but it's still by time when

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Speaker 1: people graduate, they're still lacking a lot of details. I've

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Speaker 1: had to actually implant this in practice, how to interpret

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Speaker 1: stool tests, et cetera, how to make changes based on

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Speaker 1: a microbiome analysis for example, or even people from a

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Speaker 1: dietetic background, nutrition background. It's sa missing that kind of data.

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Speaker 1: So I really trying to upskill Clindians to move into

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Speaker 1: that space and move into us the new understanding of

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Speaker 1: the human body or that microrobes are key elements we

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Speaker 1: can't just ignore like we used to do in the

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Speaker 1: nineteen nineties and before that, you know, you look back

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Speaker 1: at that time and even then called it the microflora

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Speaker 1: back then, but the microflora researchers were like saying, this

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Speaker 1: is important. These microbes are important. We can't just keep

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Speaker 1: ignoring their existence or keep taking a course at antibotics

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Speaker 1: and not thinking it has some long term consequence. But

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Speaker 1: it's just been amazing to see again over the last

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Speaker 1: twenty five years, how that has blown up so dramatically,

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Speaker 1: you know, and that there's many people out there who

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Speaker 1: are now aware of microbiam and it's importance who you

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Speaker 1: know that this is not a talking point besides in

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Speaker 1: small circles, you know, twenty some years ago. So during

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Speaker 1: that time, I still saw patients and I still see

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Speaker 1: patients now because for me, and I've talked to the

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Speaker 1: universities obviously the University of Tasmania for a decade and

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Speaker 1: their evidence based medicine course. Now I teach at University

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Speaker 1: of Western States a natropathic gastroent trology kind of units

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Speaker 1: in their master's degree there, and I have you know,

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Speaker 1: to the research and have I've happened to reasoningly PAHD

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Speaker 1: students working ad too so it's been that to me,

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Speaker 1: that that lovely combination of of academia, education and patients,

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Speaker 1: and I think they feed into eature it really well. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because when I'm like reading up to prepare for a

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Speaker 1: new lecture, I'm keeping up to day with all the

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Speaker 1: new research that's been done. Then I can try that

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Speaker 1: out of my patients does actually work in the real

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Speaker 1: life or with those with more patients we have to do.

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Speaker 1: Then I can teach that to clinicians like obscure will

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Speaker 1: make get better results with their patients too. So I

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Speaker 1: think it's been a great circle in that way.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting because when you look at what the evidences

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Speaker 2: is that new research often takes about a decade or

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Speaker 2: more to get into frontline medicine. Why is there such

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Speaker 2: Have you any idea about why there is such a

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Speaker 2: delay in that.

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Speaker 1: Preconceived biases the lack of curiosity amongst many I mean,

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Speaker 1: I would say clinicians like I find this is a

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Speaker 1: sad state, and not honestly in my field, but in

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Speaker 1: other other fields where clicians might be we might be

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Speaker 1: co managing a patient with you know, a all sort

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Speaker 1: of clidius or something, let's say, or a crones of

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Speaker 1: these that have been like not totally non responsive to

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Speaker 1: commission medicines. They work with me, we work on diet

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Speaker 1: and work in microbomb modification, and we get crones of

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Speaker 1: these in remission, and the physician to me would be like,

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Speaker 1: what the hell have you done? We've tried all these

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Speaker 1: drugs for years and nothing's work. You've done something, but

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Speaker 1: that's not been the typical response. It's like, okay, great,

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Speaker 1: move on, and they've got no interest in knowing why.

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Speaker 1: What they've done. Differently, that's created is positive change. And

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Speaker 1: I've seen that quite commonly in the clinical field in

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Speaker 1: terms of taking on the lack of desire to take

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Speaker 1: on new information or keep learning it. And you know,

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Speaker 1: we have having four standards for this and in the

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Speaker 1: health professionals to help ensure that happens to a certain degree.

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Speaker 1: But you can kind of he can choose that as well.

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Speaker 1: And if you have no nutrition interest or no nutrition

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Speaker 1: in microbiome, you're not going to go to any CPE

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Speaker 1: events that train you up in those areas of the

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Speaker 1: sticking your kind of lane. But even in academia, I

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Speaker 1: think it's it can be. I give the example of

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Speaker 1: of you know, I worked at University of test Many

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Speaker 1: for ten years, and you know, my PhD was in

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Speaker 1: you know, area probotics and micro bond molteration, and you know,

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Speaker 1: there was so little of that in this sort of

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Speaker 1: pharmacy course there. Like I had my own sort of

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Speaker 1: you know, Evans based company medicine program, which was a

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Speaker 1: post grad course that we had a different kind of

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Speaker 1: student base. But for me, it was like I just

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Speaker 1: felt like a very underutilized resource that I should be.

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Speaker 1: You're expounding the wonders of microboond science to the generation

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Speaker 1: every generation pharmacy students, and then how we should use

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Speaker 1: in provoducts and practice and the evidence basic providucts, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: But you know, we only had a couple of hours

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Speaker 1: per for your student to actually get there any of

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Speaker 1: that information in, you know, And I think that that's

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Speaker 1: not on call.

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Speaker 2: That they comes to the miniature issue, isn't it. And

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Speaker 2: I mean there's a certain amount I find as a

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Speaker 2: bystander who it goes to lots of different conferences. I

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Speaker 2: talk at conferences there is a bit of a looking

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Speaker 2: down the nose from traditional medicine at naturopathic medicine. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and thinking it's woo woo stuff. But there is, as

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Speaker 2: you taught and evidence being complementary medicine course at a

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Speaker 2: university right And for me, it's like, if you've got

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Speaker 2: anything that is originating in the gut and will explore

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Speaker 2: the huge amount of diseases and both physical and mental

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Speaker 2: that have origins or at least contributing factors from the gut,

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Speaker 2: why would you go to a GP who gets no

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Speaker 2: nutritional training or maybe two weeks at best, and gets

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Speaker 2: no training on the microbiome whatsoever. And you know, are

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Speaker 2: not incentivized to do ongoing learning for this. I mean

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Speaker 2: there are a bunch of doctors who do the ones

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Speaker 2: who are at the active conference. You know, there's a

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Speaker 2: whole bunch of bunch of doctors there when we be there.

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Speaker 2: But your traditional GP or the traditional medical system is

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Speaker 2: really not well equipped for diseases that have a gastro

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Speaker 2: intestinal origin, of which we are seeing more and more

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Speaker 2: right now. I think my eyes got opened to this

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Speaker 2: area a big time. It would have been a decade

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Speaker 2: or maybe a little bit more ago I saw Professor

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Speaker 2: Thomas Barrodi. You will be very aware of runs the

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Speaker 2: Center for Digestive Diseases in Sydney.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and like the world trendsetter in fecal transplant.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So so just tell our listeners actually that you

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Speaker 2: can tell that story about what the kind of early

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Speaker 2: facal trend plant stuff was showing for things like ceed

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Speaker 2: of facil and other stuff. Just give our listeners a

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Speaker 2: bit of a sense of that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean not my probably our take on that

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Speaker 1: would be obviously nowhere near as detailed to some like

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Speaker 1: like doctor Bordie, who's like the driver of that. But

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Speaker 1: I do think that you know, we have a condition

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Speaker 1: that seed of ficil or clusterdy or use the facility

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Speaker 1: superfection that happens not uncommonly after a course of antibotics.

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Speaker 1: Some antobotics have higher risk not uncommonly after going into

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Speaker 1: the hospital settings, because it turns out that cediff wares

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Speaker 1: everywhere throughout hospitals, and that people are given anobotics often

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Speaker 1: in hospital and that combination is particularly bad and because

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Speaker 1: of the fact that antabotics are the driver of the condition. Essentially,

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Speaker 1: antabotics that cause massive microbiome disruption allow the seedf to

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Speaker 1: actually grow and thrive in the environment. Then people can

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Speaker 1: get immensely unwealth from you know, modely moderate symptoms like

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Speaker 1: you know, diarrhea and discomforts are actually dying. It can

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Speaker 1: be very severe infection, and its success rate with treating

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Speaker 1: with more antibiotics is not great.

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Speaker 2: Because like you know, that was very kind of you,

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Speaker 2: jes what he said. Not great. It's pretty pathetic.

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Speaker 1: Really.

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Speaker 2: The conventional medical treatment of seed def is pesper Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And then then they're like, Okay, well maybe it's a

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Speaker 1: it's a despotic state. Maybe we need to encourage that

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Speaker 1: ecosystem back to a healthier state. And the quickest way

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Speaker 1: of doing that, I mean, there has been some research

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Speaker 1: on probotics, which is you know, where you're giving one

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Speaker 1: or two or three different types of bactory and the

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Speaker 1: research and CF is hidden is depending on the combination.

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Speaker 1: But again that's that's a really really small thing. Given

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Speaker 1: that the typically ecsystem have one hundred and sixty different

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Speaker 1: species of bacteria and you just add some lackt of

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Speaker 1: cilizen there. It's like not a huge restoration approach versus

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Speaker 1: FMT where you're taking pooh from a healthy person and

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Speaker 1: you're adding one hundred and fifty or two hundred species

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Speaker 1: into that ecosystem. So it helps restore that the ecoism

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Speaker 1: essentially would be the way best way of looking at it.

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Speaker 1: And you're getting phenomenal success rates with c DIFF and

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Speaker 1: so much like you you wonder whine or if that

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Speaker 1: isn't first sort of call by at the convention medicine

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Speaker 1: whenever anyone has see if that FMT should be the

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Speaker 1: first portocole, it's not even now they will still do

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Speaker 1: a couple of course antibotics first. Then then maybe it

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Speaker 1: might be third down the line in most sort of guidelines.

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Speaker 1: But when you give f MT, which I think is

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Speaker 1: ludicrous given the success rate and low risk of toxic

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Speaker 1: side effects with FMT, assuming of course that we've screened

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Speaker 1: the donors well. And I think they're having lessons learned

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Speaker 1: in this because there were cases where people become obese

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Speaker 1: after fecal transplant when the donor was no beast person,

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Speaker 1: or people could get depressed or anxious after a fecal

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Speaker 1: transplant because the donor happened to have depression. You know,

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Speaker 1: we've learned from some of those experiences about what things

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Speaker 1: we shot looking at. Besides just they don't have arrange

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Speaker 1: of diseases. It's just like they can't be overweight. They've

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Speaker 1: got to be medically well, they've got to have good mood.

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Speaker 1: There's other criteria to look at to find you know,

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Speaker 1: I would I say good donors, so there's less risk

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Speaker 1: of any unwanted sort of disease pass on, because I

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Speaker 1: think that's the amazing thing that's changed in the last

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Speaker 1: twenty years. Is this you kind of alluded to, is

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Speaker 1: the number of diseases we now associate with despotic or

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Speaker 1: negative alterations in the microbion composition, even things like hypertension.

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Speaker 1: Like I would not have thought, even someone who spent

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Speaker 1: years admiring in wonder of the microbiome, thinking that that

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Speaker 1: hypertension was a disease of dyspiosis. But we can take

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Speaker 1: pooh transplants from people who have low blood pressure normal

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Speaker 1: blood pressure, and given to people high blood pssure and

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Speaker 1: their blood pressure will normalize.

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Speaker 2: You holy shit, excuse the pod exactly. So I just

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Speaker 2: need to double click here for some people who might

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Speaker 2: be going FMT fecal transplants, just just to clarify for

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Speaker 2: some people who may not be familiar with it. This

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Speaker 2: is what you get, as you said, a healthy donor

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Speaker 2: and you get some of their pooh, and then it

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Speaker 2: goes into a big syringe and goes up their JAXI.

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Speaker 1: Typically, yeah, it doesn't even a form too, but yes.

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Speaker 2: It's a medical to Oh yeah, crapsules they're now being

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Speaker 2: called yeah. Yeah. And and basically what happens is is

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Speaker 2: that donors microbiome repopulates the colon of the unhealthy person.

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Speaker 2: But as you said, I didn't know we've actually seen

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Speaker 2: that in humans, right, because years ago I remember reading

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Speaker 2: this stuff that from animal studies, you could take a

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Speaker 2: perfectly healthy mouse and given a fecal transplant of a

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Speaker 2: mouse with depression or anxiety, or obesity or diabetes, and

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Speaker 2: within a couple of weeks, with no change in the environment,

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Speaker 2: that mouse would develop those conditions, and then they could

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Speaker 2: reverse it as well. So now you're saying that it

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Speaker 2: in humans with people getting depression or obesity from unscreened donors, right,

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Speaker 2: this is that this is that do not do at

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Speaker 2: home people for those reasons, Yeah, and lots of other reasons. Right. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But it's been it's been interesting because I think you

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Speaker 1: go back to I think it was two thousand and

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Speaker 1: end of Taison five that first paper was published where

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Speaker 1: they gave poo from obese mice to thin mice, and

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Speaker 1: those mice got obese despite no change in cloric intake

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Speaker 1: or or or output. You know, they weren't exercising it

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Speaker 1: any less. They were eating the same out of food

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Speaker 1: and it just became grossly obese just from a pood transplant.

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Speaker 1: That was a game changer in them, and not say

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Speaker 1: broader understanding of I've got and the importance of the

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Speaker 1: of the gut medical access, but but also that that

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Speaker 1: how important got microphone is in that because before that

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Speaker 1: we were like, yeah they got microphone matters and IBS

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Speaker 1: or in family ball disease, like these gut conditions, but

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Speaker 1: maybe not outside that. But that blew it open, going,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, you know if we can pass on

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Speaker 1: obesity by doing pood transplants. That opened the door to yeah,

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Speaker 1: now there's research looking at depression, anxiety, hypertension. If I

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Speaker 1: mentioned before diabetes, so many things we can thease that

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Speaker 1: we would have not thought of as like transmitsible. We

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Speaker 1: can transmit via even Alzheimer's, you know, we can. We

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Speaker 1: can take you poo from adults with Alzheimer's and give

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Speaker 1: it to routes and they develop it into Alzheimer's disease.

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Speaker 2: It's great, is that right?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Wow? So I've seen some stuff obviously about Parkinson's disease.

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Speaker 2: There's a there's quite a strong theory that it starts

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Speaker 2: in the gout NYE. But that Alzheimer's one is Wow,

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Speaker 2: that is interesting and it just opens up a whole world.

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Speaker 2: So that I think that's a really good segue into

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Speaker 2: the got Brian microbio too. Access. So just give people

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Speaker 2: a bit of an overview of the current state of play, Like, Hi,

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Speaker 2: how is the communication happening between the got the brain

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Speaker 2: and the and the microbiome, you know, this whole idea

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Speaker 2: of the second brain. Just just give give people a

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Speaker 2: two or three minute overview of what we currently know.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I don't even take it further step back into

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Speaker 1: scope like the gut microbiome, Yeah, totally, But it's essentially generally,

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Speaker 1: when we see the gut microbiome, we're talking about the

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Speaker 1: microbes growing in the colon. You know, we will have

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Speaker 1: a different microbulag because it's in a small testine and

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Speaker 1: far less diverse in the stomach, for example. But when

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Speaker 1: we say microbiome, we're generally talking about colonic ecosism. Are

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Speaker 1: large intestine, but one hundred trillion different micro one hundred

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Speaker 1: trillion microbes living in that environment. And there's some debate about,

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Speaker 1: you know, whether there are ten times a number of

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Speaker 1: microbes in our guts there was human cells. It's two

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Speaker 1: times or three times, but either way we have there's

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Speaker 1: you know, considered amount of us is actually composed of

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Speaker 1: a microbe. And I think that's the other chain in

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Speaker 1: thinking from just sort of segue to you know, again

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Speaker 1: going back twenty some years ago, these researchers who looking

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Speaker 1: at the microfloor at the time were like, you know,

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Speaker 1: we should we need to look at this as an

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Speaker 1: additional human organ just as important as the liver or

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Speaker 1: the small testine to human health. And I think that

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Speaker 1: shifting it. That's finally taken on board in many circles,

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Speaker 1: but it's even moved beyond that to actually we are

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Speaker 1: a whole of violence, which is the term just meaning

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Speaker 1: that we are composed of microbes and non microbe cells, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and all both, all of which is important. So when

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Speaker 1: we kind of take that on board, we have you know,

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Speaker 1: one hundred trillion cells in our gut that actually influence

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Speaker 1: every single system of our body is influenced by that

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Speaker 1: ecosystem in our gut. That's what we're We've found out

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Speaker 1: now how immune system works, how metabal system work, metabolism works,

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Speaker 1: how your brain works. You know, all that is related

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Speaker 1: to how your mitochondria working. Are related to that that

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Speaker 1: that ecosystem in our gut. And typically we have for Westerners,

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Speaker 1: but one hundred and sixty different species present in your gut.

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Speaker 1: But that's far far less, and then we we're traditionally

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Speaker 1: had and far less what we see in hundred gathered

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Speaker 1: societies or yeah, that's right, you know, even like I

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Speaker 1: do microbomb assessments with I have for many years to

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Speaker 1: the thousands of patients now and you know, the lowest

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Speaker 1: I've seen on a microbod assessment was twelve species and

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Speaker 1: someone who is on bank of mice and all of

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Speaker 1: them were pathogenic.

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Speaker 2: Into it's likely twelve space twelve series.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and they're all bad. You know, there's not a

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Speaker 1: good one to be seen. And conversely, I've seen four

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Speaker 1: hundred and thirty genera, so so we didn't go to

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Speaker 1: speedees of a general level. Was just that was that

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Speaker 1: was someone who grew up in rural Mexico and no antabotics.

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Speaker 1: They were you know, born bonn at home and you

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Speaker 1: know they were breastfit. You know, it's just like that's

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Speaker 1: the contrasting things that I've seen in my clical practice.

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Speaker 1: But a lot of you know, things that we get

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Speaker 1: exposed to in Western nations have caused a massive reduction

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Speaker 1: in diversity. Every egoism so that that is anabotics, that

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Speaker 1: is proton pump behaviors, and the class medications we use

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Speaker 1: to treat reflux turn out to be quite potent antibotic

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Speaker 1: like agents too. You know, I think twenty percent of

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Speaker 1: microbes and then gat are sensitive to are damaged by

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Speaker 1: protram pumpmavers. So we see massive loss of diversity, and

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Speaker 1: these medications are given like candy to you know, even

396
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Speaker 1: in Australia's like in ten million scripts or something for pbiser,

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Speaker 1: you know, per year, and we only have twenty five

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Speaker 1: six million people. You know, we get some context on that.

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Speaker 1: Then we Western diet and we have the craft that's

400
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Speaker 1: in our diet too, like a multifiers, I feel, sweeteners,

401
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Speaker 1: all these things kill our peditial bacteria and damage the ecosystem.

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Speaker 2: I think, just on that to jump in there, there

403
00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:15,920
Speaker 2: was an Umbrella review published quite recently around ultra processed

404
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:20,520
Speaker 2: foods and showing that increasing consumption, they had class one

405
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Speaker 2: evidence of a fifty percent increased risk in cardiovascular deaths,

406
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Speaker 2: forty eight percent increased risk of anxiety, and fifty three

407
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Speaker 2: percent increase risk of common mental health disorder. Like, this

408
00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:37,040
Speaker 2: is the kneil in the coffin of ultra processed foods, right,

409
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:38,760
Speaker 2: this shit should be banned.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, and you dig into You're like, wo,

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Speaker 1: how are we allowed to be selling this stuff? Why

412
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Speaker 1: are we allowed to excessus? Because I mean our health problems.

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Speaker 1: You know, you and ore old enough to have seen

414
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Speaker 1: this huge increase in Alzheimer's and typy diabetes and obesily

415
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Speaker 1: like you take put photos and beaches in the sixties

416
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Speaker 1: and seventies, they don't not have the same as first time.

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Speaker 2: Now now it's like a different species ash And just

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Speaker 2: on that point, in the next couple of years, they

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Speaker 2: reckon that dementia is going to be the biggest killer

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Speaker 2: of all Australians right just now number two. It's number two,

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Speaker 2: and it's the biggest killer of females currently.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and going back in the ultra process food like,

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Speaker 1: I was reading some research showing that in America, some

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Speaker 1: seven percent of their dietaries supply for some people is

425
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Speaker 1: ultra process seventy percent. You know, in Australia we're better off,

426
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Speaker 1: but sheese, you know, not dramatically better off. If you

427
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:26,720
Speaker 1: look at what people put in their shopping trolleys of

428
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Speaker 1: the save market, Like, my god, so many people are

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Speaker 1: choosing those feelings.

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Speaker 2: We are in the top six countries of global ultra

431
00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:37,600
Speaker 2: process food sales, so I think we're not that far

432
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,520
Speaker 2: And you're right at both the UK and in the

433
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:44,480
Speaker 2: United States, especially teenagers, almost seventy percent of their diet

434
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,240
Speaker 2: process foods. And when we think about what that does

435
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:55,000
Speaker 2: to the microbiome. So you talked about multifiers having an issue,

436
00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:58,720
Speaker 2: but it's also preservatives and flavor enhancers and things like that,

437
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:02,560
Speaker 2: right that just do we know how these things impact

438
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:03,800
Speaker 2: the microbiome ni But.

439
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,280
Speaker 1: We're teasing into some of the stuff at now, and

440
00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:09,439
Speaker 1: even I would argue agricultural chemicals too. I think, like

441
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:11,560
Speaker 1: common things like life is safe, but others, you know,

442
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,960
Speaker 1: and those forever chemicals kill good bactery as well. It's like,

443
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:16,640
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, we're living in this toxic soup

444
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:18,680
Speaker 1: where almost everything people are eating intends to be killing

445
00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:21,760
Speaker 1: finial bacteria. It's kind of the state that many Westerners

446
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:23,920
Speaker 1: are in. There's been a lot more research delving into

447
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 1: a multifier since twenty fourteen. I think the first paper

448
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,199
Speaker 1: was done looking at that because you know, people had

449
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,240
Speaker 1: not thought of it before then in terms of like, oh, look,

450
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,119
Speaker 1: it kind of strips away your protective gut lining. You

451
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:37,840
Speaker 1: can induce type two diabetes and metabolic syndrome in animal

452
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:40,160
Speaker 1: models is by giving them dietary mulsifiers at the high

453
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 1: end of what humans could consume on a multiprocessed diet,

454
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:45,000
Speaker 1: you know, and you're like, okay, look at that, and

455
00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:48,240
Speaker 1: it changes the microbiome. We get reductions of beneficial bactery

456
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:52,120
Speaker 1: and we get these blooms of proteobacteria, typically in protebacteria

457
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:55,000
Speaker 1: as you know, a phylum of bactery and the gat.

458
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:57,240
Speaker 1: All of us will have some there, but it varies

459
00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,600
Speaker 1: dramatically how much is there, and one of the attributes

460
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:02,480
Speaker 1: are all putting back to his shares. They contain this

461
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,360
Speaker 1: very pro inflammatory a bit of the cell wall called

462
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:10,159
Speaker 1: endotoxin or lipopolysaccharide LPs for short. Yeah, so when we

463
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:12,359
Speaker 1: eat these foods, LPs levels go up, and it's just

464
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:15,159
Speaker 1: terms that the LPs. Just to be clear here, they

465
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:16,840
Speaker 1: just grow it. Like you know we grow hair, we

466
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,120
Speaker 1: grow nails, they grow LPs. You know, they're not trying

467
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:22,720
Speaker 1: to make us unwell by screating a toxin in this instance,

468
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:24,720
Speaker 1: They're just growing the stuff. So when they live, they're

469
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:26,560
Speaker 1: constantly shedding it. When they die, they shed it. So

470
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:28,679
Speaker 1: the more proto vector we have in our gut, the

471
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:31,520
Speaker 1: more endotoxin or LPs we have in our gut. And

472
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:33,760
Speaker 1: you know, we have got some detox maktives to deal

473
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,639
Speaker 1: with some of that, but you know, we've got so

474
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,280
Speaker 1: much more getting into our system now that the LPs,

475
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 1: I think is really one of the causative ways of

476
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:46,439
Speaker 1: which the microbiome alters. I would say everything in a

477
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:48,760
Speaker 1: negative way. You know, we know that that that LPs

478
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,960
Speaker 1: actually damages the blood brain barrier, causing their logical inflammation.

479
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,960
Speaker 1: Interesting research in Alzheimer's patients where people of Alzheimer's they

480
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,680
Speaker 1: have three times more LPs in their bloodstreams than an

481
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:02,639
Speaker 1: age match healthy controls. They have between three and twenty

482
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,879
Speaker 1: six more times in their brain on autopsy than compared

483
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:10,120
Speaker 1: to healthy control bodies. Autopsies it's just like it's crazy.

484
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:14,199
Speaker 1: And where where that is the the plaques build up

485
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:14,639
Speaker 1: around the.

486
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:17,879
Speaker 2: The amyloid plaques. Yeah, yeah, because it's a it's because

487
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,199
Speaker 2: it's a it's a it's a foreign in theater, right,

488
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:23,639
Speaker 2: So the amyloid plaque is lied laid down to protect

489
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 2: against damages. Yeah.

490
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 1: And it's this LPs that's coming from the gut that's

491
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:28,760
Speaker 1: actually driving this.

492
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is why and the mechanism chased. Sorry,

493
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,320
Speaker 2: so the LPs did you say did I hear you

494
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 2: say that it basically degrades the mucous membrane. It does?

495
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,879
Speaker 1: You know, we call say he got to enhance permie belief.

496
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:44,639
Speaker 1: So it definitely causes that. It drives information body wide, Okay,

497
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 1: but we also know that it actually kept directly damages

498
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 1: the blood brain barrier. It causes you know, neurological information.

499
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 1: It changes our nerves neurotransmitters too. You know those studies

500
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 1: where they've given happy, healthy people a shot of endotoxin

501
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:58,879
Speaker 1: and they get anxious and depressed for hours afterwards, you know,

502
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 1: before birth clears it out. And we know that actually

503
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 1: is able to get into the brain and actually change

504
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 1: what neuro transfer that reproduce. You know, we get less

505
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 1: you know, serotonin happy happy compounds when we have more

506
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 1: DX in our system. They've done brain scans of people

507
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 1: have to give them a shot of endotox in their

508
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:17,879
Speaker 1: brains turned bright red everywhere. But we live in a

509
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 1: reading this dietary approach for many Westerners who just have

510
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:24,400
Speaker 1: this LPs leaking into their bloodstream twenty four hours a day,

511
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 1: seven days a week. That's driving the chronic disease is

512
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:31,400
Speaker 1: that we see from obesity to typew diabetes to Alzheimer's.

513
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 1: You know these are all LPs driven conditions. Yeah, I

514
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:37,640
Speaker 1: would anxiety depression of me two for that matter.

515
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 2: Let's talk about the mechanisms here, because I really want

516
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:45,920
Speaker 2: people to understand the structure of the colon and why

517
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 2: mucous membrane is so important. I mean, most people are

518
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:52,200
Speaker 2: shocked when I tell them that at least eighty percent

519
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 2: of the immune system resides in the gut. So talk

520
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,919
Speaker 2: us through what actually is happening when this mucus man

521
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 2: Brian is being degree of it. Then the implications of that,

522
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,439
Speaker 2: like what we know happens with a leaky gut.

523
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:09,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we see this as a very essentially the

524
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,159
Speaker 1: consequence of a Western diet. The Western diet, you know,

525
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 1: contains these chemicals which actually strip away your protective mucus layer,

526
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:20,199
Speaker 1: but also don't feed your your bendach bacteria that are

527
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,679
Speaker 1: protective and help protect your umucosa as well. So we

528
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,400
Speaker 1: have this double whammy that's going on. So essentially we're

529
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 1: getting this penetration of bacteri and bacterial byproducts that wouldn't

530
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 1: normally get through there's normally a thick mucus layer, and

531
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 1: even if they're there, they just can't contact the cells themselves.

532
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 1: But when we thin out that mucus layer, were enable

533
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 1: that contact between bacteria and their LPs to actually directly

534
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 1: cause information and that causes leakiness. Then that LPs gets

535
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 1: in the bloodstream, and we do have metaoves to try

536
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 1: to deal with that. Like our liver is quite adapted

537
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,879
Speaker 1: dealing with LPs for a certain period of time at

538
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,639
Speaker 1: a certain amount. It's just that when it becomes overwhelmed,

539
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,680
Speaker 1: then it reaches the body wide circulation and that's where

540
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 1: it starts causing havoc everywhere. And this is where we see,

541
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 1: like you know, alcoholic liver disease is like it's the

542
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 1: endotoxins that are causing liver damage. Yeah, it's just the

543
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 1: alcohol causes the leak.

544
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 2: He got.

545
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 1: Alcohol causes you know, damage in the cos allows the

546
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 1: enderdosin through. Alcohol causes blooms of protibacteria in the gad. Yeah,

547
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,160
Speaker 1: and that allows the endotoxin to come through and cause

548
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 1: damage to liver. And even in what we're called non

549
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,720
Speaker 1: alcohol I fat liver disease. It's not got a recently

550
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:27,879
Speaker 1: updated name, but it's that is damage is driven by

551
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:29,199
Speaker 1: endotoxins as well.

552
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:33,360
Speaker 2: Primarily interesting that alcohol causes a leaky God, I did

553
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 2: not know that. And this is this is a very

554
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 2: verging on oversharing right here, because I had some bol

555
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 2: issues a few years ago and was a little bit

556
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,120
Speaker 2: concerned about just how diarrhea in the mornings not all

557
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 2: the time. But I went and I ended up having

558
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 2: a colonic, not a colonic. I ended up having a

559
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 2: end endoscopy yet and it was all clear. And then

560
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 2: what I worked out is it was after I drunk alcohol,

561
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 2: and that now it makes perfect sense, So I I

562
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,879
Speaker 2: just sort of worked it, Jesus, it's after I drank

563
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 2: the night the next morning, That's the only time that

564
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,879
Speaker 2: I have that diary yet and now it makes sense.

565
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think even like the hangover effect, I

566
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 1: think is because of the anterotoxin that's to the intertoxins

567
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: that that come into your brain, your brain from that

568
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:25,359
Speaker 1: alcohol ingestion too. Yeah wow Yeah. And alcohol also slows

569
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:27,399
Speaker 1: down your small vowel transit to so you get this

570
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 1: sort of extra effective, if extra capacity to absorb stuff

571
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 1: through that that damage small vowel too, because microbes aren't

572
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 1: moving things aren't moving through in the same way. Cause

573
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 1: I trade a lot of patients with overgrowth the bactory

574
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 1: and the small intestine SIBO small intestin vactory over with

575
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 1: alcohol that come and reinduce her some of the clear

576
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 1: cebo it's gone, But then it might be you know,

577
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 1: Christmas and your time, and they end up drinking apes

578
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 1: and seb overturn as a consequence of that alcohol ingest

579
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 1: interesting stops.

580
00:28:55,800 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 2: So you got alcohol, You got alcohol, significant alcohol, all

581
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 2: to a typical SAD diet, the standard American or the

582
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 2: standard Australian diet towards standard it's the standard Western diet,

583
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 2: but the standard Western diet on its own a shithouse

584
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 2: for your microbiome. Just a recap for people, it basically

585
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 2: encourages his LPs, which degrade your mucous membrane. And I

586
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 2: also if you're not having a lot of fiber. My

587
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,719
Speaker 2: understanding is the fiber munching bacteria in your gut that

588
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 2: thrive off fiber, they turn into cannibals when you don't

589
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 2: have enough fiber and to eat your mucus membry and

590
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 2: so we have then a double wami from that. Plus

591
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 2: you're not supporting your healthy microbiome, then you get an

592
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 2: unhealthy one. You get leaky gut, then you get LPs

593
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 2: getting into the bloodstream triggers and immune response and then

594
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 2: gets into the brain. And what other impacts does that

595
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 2: have metabolically? I think you mentioned the mitochondria earlier.

596
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 1: On Yeah, because LPs is also mitochondria toxin. Wow. To

597
00:29:57,920 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 1: add add to the mix of everything else that's actually

598
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 1: doing it did impairs insolent sensitivity too, so it drives

599
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 1: you know, likely good levels to go up to by

600
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 1: impairing your insulin capacity to bring levels down. It's it's

601
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 1: a really horrific substance where you look at it and

602
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 1: you're like, oh my god, I do not want this

603
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 1: stuff in my blood stream. Would you eat the best

604
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: die possible to prevent that LPs load getting into my

605
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 1: gut into reduced levels of LPs vector and you got

606
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 1: because it really is, Yeah, I think it. You know,

607
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 1: it's seems a very core driver of Alzheimer's and not

608
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 1: it's funny. Look at the research, it's all very clear

609
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 1: out there. But then like the sude people who you know,

610
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 1: Alzheimer's specialists who just still have no idea of any

611
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 1: of the stuff around got that we good in other areas,

612
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 1: but completely ignorant of things like that, which I still

613
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 1: find problematic. Means the end result of people aren't getting

614
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 1: proper care and we're ignoring a core underlying driver that

615
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 1: that that needs to be addressed if we wanted to

616
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,240
Speaker 1: to prevent this sort of Alzheimer's and the gemmick that

617
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 1: we're seeing. And it's so the only they can be

618
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 1: getting worse too that.

619
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 2: You so you look at the rea of it. The

620
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 2: increasing rates in lots of western nations are scary, and

621
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 2: I'd encourage anybody for Australia just to look at the

622
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 2: Australian industry of health, of welfare and the deaths that

623
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 2: cut the causes of death in Australia, and you just

624
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:17,239
Speaker 2: see because they have it mapped out over the year,

625
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 2: should just say like dementia was way down to the

626
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 2: bottom and it's just gone boom shot way up right,

627
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 2: So they bring Alzheimer's into that umbrella.

628
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 1: And these things should worry is I thought that some

629
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 1: one amazing that we don't seem to be too bothered by.

630
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 1: You know, there's huge rate of OBC in our kids

631
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 1: about using kids or this huge boom of Alzheimer's nearly

632
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 1: as much as we should. I mean, there'll be people

633
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 1: like you or I who are like, this is incredible stuff.

634
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 1: We need to be worried about the people that are

635
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: making decisions around what's a lad in our food supply,

636
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 1: which we know there is a huge correlation here. Like

637
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 1: it's mind blowing that we're not making deeper changes in

638
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 1: terms of what's allowed to be putting our food, what

639
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 1: can we label as food because all these pseudo foods

640
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:57,479
Speaker 1: that people are consuming that are actually directly causing this

641
00:31:57,640 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 1: are totally loud in our current health.

642
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, and you know this whole thing if

643
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 2: it looks if it doesn't look like it's been alive

644
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 2: recently and minimally interfered with by humans, then don't dat

645
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 2: the bloody stuff or I talk about the early twenty road, right,

646
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 2: So twenty percent treat stuff, but eighty percent of the

647
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 2: stuff that goes into your gub on a daily basis

648
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 2: shue have been alive recently and minimally interfered with by humans.

649
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 2: Because I am a big believer, and it's Professor Philis

650
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 2: Jaka who is the driver of the nutritional psychiatry movement.

651
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,719
Speaker 2: She said that the ultra processed food system or the

652
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 2: food global food industry is the biggest driver of chronic

653
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 2: disease in the world without exception. And I think she's

654
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 2: absolutely right. You only have to look at like what

655
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 2: has changed from I saw a photograph the other day

656
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 2: of Bathurst in the nineteen seventies, the crowd and there's

657
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 2: a huge amount of people in it, just as you

658
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 2: was mentioned earlier on not one obese person there, not one, right,

659
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 2: And that was in nineteen seventy seven. And you look

660
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 2: back and that you can just look at all photographs

661
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 2: of people at beaches in the fifties and sixties to seven.

662
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 2: It just we didn't have hardly any of it. And

663
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 2: now it is the norm to be overweight at orbees.

664
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 2: What has changed? The big thing that changes our diet

665
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 2: and all the plastics, these forever chemicals that you talked about, right,

666
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 2: which go hand in hand with the diet and the

667
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 2: food packaging and all of that.

668
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 1: Exactly when we're buying the process food it's going to

669
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 1: cover with, we're cover with plastical stuff too, so we

670
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 1: get extra dose to the plastic too.

671
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, so's and do we know anything about the role

672
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 2: of these forever chemicals in the gut because we have

673
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 2: now found that. I saw some research the other day

674
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 2: one hundred percent of placentas that were tested in the

675
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 2: United States had got forever chemicals microplastics in the placenta. Right,

676
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 2: we now know we've seen it in the human brain

677
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 2: as well, and we've seen it in other organs. Do

678
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 2: we know the role that they play in the gut yet?

679
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 1: I would argue it's under research. But that's again probably

680
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 1: the last ten years people started to look at that

681
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 1: and it looks like there's a pretty common pattern that

682
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 1: those rigor chemicals harm beneficial microbes and increased levels of

683
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 1: proty bacteria. Yeah, and it's just kind of the same

684
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:14,480
Speaker 1: pattern we see with the ultra precess food dies to

685
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 1: the increased protebacta reduce levels of benifh bacteria becaues some

686
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:21,800
Speaker 1: of the Even though stuff that we had like triclecan

687
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,799
Speaker 1: as a compound that anti antacific is added to toothpaste.

688
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:27,239
Speaker 1: In some parts of the world it's classic the carcinine

689
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:29,400
Speaker 1: not allowed, but in other parts, like Australia, added to

690
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,479
Speaker 1: toothpaste we can frush our teeth with it. Actually, again

691
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 1: it kills our benished bactery and causes these blooms of

692
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,760
Speaker 1: prote bactery even when in the doses we're getting from toothpaste.

693
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 1: It's just like, why is this stuff allowed? You know,

694
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:43,360
Speaker 1: it's just crazy. So it's like we're being bombarded on

695
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 1: all sides, from cosmetics to our food supply that these

696
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 1: things that are causing microboob harm that don't necessarily get

697
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 1: the airplay of antabotics. More people are aware of what

698
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 1: it's causing harm, and they do, but they at least

699
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 1: they have some therapeutic benefit in certain situations. Other things

700
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 1: do not all of you, and there's no reason why

701
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:02,399
Speaker 1: that we should be consuming them.

702
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, so let's talk about antibiotics right now. So we

703
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,239
Speaker 2: just had a chat but before we came on. So

704
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 2: I am currently on a course of antibiotics. I'm not

705
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 2: happy about it. I mean, there is very compelling research

706
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 2: about the amount of courses of antibiotics that you're on

707
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 2: throughout your life has a significant impact on the healthier gut, microbiome,

708
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 2: and all sorts of other health conditions, particularly obasically in diabetes. Now,

709
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:30,239
Speaker 2: I had to have one because I had an infection

710
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 2: in a tooth and I was saying to you. The

711
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 2: doctor did a three D X ray which actually showed

712
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 2: the infection had penetrated to the riysth of my mouth

713
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:43,280
Speaker 2: into the sinus, and it was amazing. You could see

714
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 2: that the immune tiste had dumped all this inflammation on it. Right,

715
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:49,320
Speaker 2: So this was a no brain This is a case

716
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:53,359
Speaker 2: endpoint where antibiotics can be life savers, right, because if

717
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,239
Speaker 2: I was a cave man, that shit could kill me.

718
00:35:55,840 --> 00:36:01,719
Speaker 2: So what do we do when we're on course of antibiotics?

719
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 2: Is it? Because I've heard conflicting evidence about whether or

720
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:07,319
Speaker 2: not you should take probiotics. Some people say it's no

721
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 2: point in doing it until you finish the course. Other

722
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 2: people have said a couple of ours after your antibiotic,

723
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:15,879
Speaker 2: then take a probiotic. So what what what is your

724
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:20,360
Speaker 2: understanding of it and what particular types and does it

725
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 2: depend on the antibiotic that you're on. What do we

726
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 2: know about this?

727
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, good question. I think the first thing is just

728
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 1: making sure you need it the analyotic and I always

729
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 1: just people really cutch the prescriber for something like you're

730
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 1: dealing with, Yeah, you know, for a bone infection or something.

731
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,360
Speaker 1: Yet totally you know, patient of the week that that

732
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:38,239
Speaker 1: feller broke the risk and had to have you know,

733
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 1: surgery in the metal bits in their armed whole things. Yeah,

734
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 1: they need antibotics to prevent any sort of bone infection,

735
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 1: no doubt. But we also know that I think for

736
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 1: Australian data show that just a couple of years ago

737
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:52,400
Speaker 1: from viral bronchitis, eighty percent of people who went to

738
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 1: their GP were prescribed antibotics.

739
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:57,880
Speaker 2: For viral and they do nothing virus it's got harm.

740
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 1: You know, So just be aware of that that one

741
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 1: don't request them for viral infections to question whether they're

742
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:07,279
Speaker 1: really needed in this case, because sometimes they are, and

743
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 1: they are live in life saving and they need them.

744
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 1: So when you do need them, the research, it's very

745
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,360
Speaker 1: clear if you take the right probotic during the course,

746
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:16,800
Speaker 1: you get less side effets, and you get less microbiome

747
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:20,280
Speaker 1: harm and you get better restoration of the ecosystem afterwards. Okay,

748
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,399
Speaker 1: so that is clear, and the idea that you should

749
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 1: wait till afterwards is kind of not based on evidence anymore.

750
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 1: I think it was a theoretical concept from forty years ago,

751
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:30,399
Speaker 1: before we had studies showing that the opposite, we get

752
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 1: better outcomes. It's not to say that every probotic can

753
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 1: be helpful, because there was one study that made huge

754
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:40,879
Speaker 1: worldwide airplayers and Israeli study where they found a one

755
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 1: particular probotic supplement on the Israeli market that when given

756
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 1: alongside of course of antobotics, actually slowed down the microbiome

757
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,880
Speaker 1: restoration compared to doing nothing at all. Yeah, and it

758
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,719
Speaker 1: turns out that the lack of silite in that specific supplement,

759
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 1: so they created compounds that prevented the growth of good bacteria. Okay,

760
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 1: there's potential for harm if you just take a random

761
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 1: products someone with no evidence on it, I think is

762
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,400
Speaker 1: relatively small, but there is. But we have you know,

763
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 1: you know, I've got a website called Product Advisor, which

764
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 1: is actually an evidence based database where you can actually

765
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 1: look at at probodic research and you can type in

766
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:15,520
Speaker 1: antibotics when it comes up with the product strains that

767
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 1: have been using human clinical trials and the effects in

768
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,360
Speaker 1: those studies and the level evidence where there it's be

769
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 1: meta analysis or rand Rise controlled trial or open label trial.

770
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 1: Try to make this easier to prescribe it products an

771
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:29,719
Speaker 1: evidence based way and using the right one for the

772
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 1: right condition. And there is a bug Lacy skill surrand

773
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,440
Speaker 1: Nooses g G that has you know, meta analysis level

774
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:40,320
Speaker 1: data for prevention of that rock associated side epics or sacrifices,

775
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:42,760
Speaker 1: servy a CI variety, bloody eye.

776
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:50,320
Speaker 2: Is that Sychritsi that's nickname, yeah, rights proper name bittriistically

777
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:51,040
Speaker 2: for proper names.

778
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:53,799
Speaker 1: But it also has meta analysis level data where we

779
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,399
Speaker 1: have a number of clinical trials showing it works. Yes,

780
00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 1: we can't have any debates about this because evidence shows

781
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 1: it works. Longside antibotics ideally, Yeah, you want to space

782
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 1: at the bacteria ones by probotics by two hours from

783
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:07,400
Speaker 1: the antibotox, they're not rolling around in your stomach at

784
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:09,719
Speaker 1: the same time with the sacramaricees. It doesn't matter because

785
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:12,319
Speaker 1: it's not running pacted. Yeah okay, yeah, and then for

786
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:14,840
Speaker 1: six during the course and for six weeks afterwards is

787
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 1: key because that's where the major disruption is and after

788
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 1: that point there's a stability back in that ecosystem. But

789
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 1: I also want to make the point too that it

790
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 1: doesn't this reduces some of the harm to your microbiome.

791
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 1: It reduces the side effect rate you're going to get

792
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 1: from the antibiotics, but it doesn't stop perhaps extinction level events.

793
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 2: It's carpet bombing your microi holm. Really is what's happening

794
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 2: in my body right now. Unfortunately on too where this

795
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,760
Speaker 2: is my microbiome was being carpet bombed.

796
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's one study for others publishing got a couple

797
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:49,919
Speaker 1: of years ago where they showed that with single courts

798
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 1: and antibotics, nine species were lost forever from that person's ecosystem.

799
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:56,880
Speaker 1: And this was with ivy anabotics two, so that it

800
00:39:56,920 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 1: wasn't like orally IV nine species completely lost. First couple

801
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:02,799
Speaker 1: of days afterwards, like they're doing pre samples every single day,

802
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 1: there's this massive completely derangement and this bacteria that was

803
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:09,839
Speaker 1: like zero point zero something percent that they had never

804
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 1: even seen before, went up to ninety six percent of

805
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 1: the ecosystem for the first couple of days afterwards, because

806
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 1: they had anabotic resistance to that antrobotic. They actually named

807
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:21,400
Speaker 1: it bork Folkyi seph triactensis because of set TRIACs in

808
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:23,880
Speaker 1: the antibotic that actually induced this bloom of this bacteria.

809
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:26,880
Speaker 1: And then the pattern kind of fall back down, but

810
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 1: the ecosm was clearly different, you could see it afterwards,

811
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:32,840
Speaker 1: never ever get in the same and there's nine species

812
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,399
Speaker 1: that were lost. So I think it's also important pair

813
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 1: that we know that we can't just pop up probotic

814
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:40,319
Speaker 1: and reinalcuate a reced or eat some surcard or kim

815
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 1: chi afterwards and go, oh, what would be great. It's like, no,

816
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 1: these things are microbiome altering agents in a permanent sense. Yeah,

817
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 1: not just in a short term sense like we once believed.

818
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:51,399
Speaker 1: You skip back, and when I started in this field

819
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,280
Speaker 1: twenty some years ago, the data at that point using

820
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:58,440
Speaker 1: culturing studies, which is really insensitive to see anything, was like, oh,

821
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:01,239
Speaker 1: four weeks after anabotics, you've got was fine again, you know.

822
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 1: But since since that, since we started using DNA technology

823
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 1: to assess the microbiome, and we can see properly, we're like, actually,

824
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 1: four years afterwards, it doesn't look the same, and there's

825
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:11,960
Speaker 1: species lost each.

826
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 2: Jump, and Jesus wow, And this is why.

827
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 1: Is such a depleted microbiome, because said I take I

828
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 1: grew up in the seventies, It's like, oh, you got

829
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 1: a cool take antabotics. It would have taken probably three

830
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 1: or four courses the year most years when I was

831
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:27,640
Speaker 1: a kid and I had a two you know, I

832
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:30,800
Speaker 1: grew up in Canada, a pretty westernized diet as well,

833
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:35,439
Speaker 1: you know, so my microbiome was smashed during during that time.

834
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:37,400
Speaker 1: And and I was lucky that I was born with doinalie.

835
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 1: At least I would have been given the full sort

836
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:41,839
Speaker 1: of Cohordi micros from my mum. And those kids born

837
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 1: b C section, don't you know, and those kids.

838
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 2: This is another thing that plays into it, right, And

839
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:48,799
Speaker 2: I actually I want to come I want to come

840
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:52,919
Speaker 2: back to what we can actually do because Melbourne has

841
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 2: got the highest rate of C sections anywhere in the world, right,

842
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:02,319
Speaker 2: so voluntary sea section. And when my wife was having

843
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:06,320
Speaker 2: to be a the obstetrician told her that her pelvis

844
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 2: was too small and that she had to come in

845
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 2: for a sea section, and I'm like, what are you

846
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 2: basing that on? Right? And she ended up having a

847
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:17,239
Speaker 2: vaginal birth, right, but they just want to schedule it, right,

848
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:19,359
Speaker 2: this is the thing. So it's got the highest rate

849
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:21,880
Speaker 2: of se section sis convenient, highest rate of se sections

850
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 2: anywhere in the world, and the highest rate of allergies

851
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 2: anywhere in the world. Right, And we know that those

852
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:32,720
Speaker 2: two are causally linked, right indeed, And so this starts

853
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 2: from birth and then breastfeeding is hugely, hugely important for

854
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 2: that microbiome. We see sea sectioned kids, you know, they

855
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:42,279
Speaker 2: they're much better at it now, I write, but in

856
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 2: the old days of the sea section, what they find

857
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 2: is that the child's microbiome in early life was reflective

858
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 2: of the skin microbiome of the doctors and the nurses, right,

859
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 2: which is just friggin whenever we not understand the impact

860
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:03,719
Speaker 2: of your microbiome. Let's talk about what people can do

861
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 2: to diversify their microbi and whether or not they've just

862
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 2: had a course of antibiotics or they're listening to this

863
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 2: and going, Jesus, my diet's a bit cheered hoise, or

864
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:15,880
Speaker 2: even if it's not chehose. I want to improve my

865
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 2: diet because I want to improve my got microbound because

866
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:21,400
Speaker 2: of all the things that Jesus has just said.

867
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 1: So yeah, because we've talked with things that are quite

868
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 1: depressing day. But there's stuff father steps we can take,

869
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 1: Like I can think of mine where you know, I

870
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 1: did not have a great upbringing from microbiome perspective in

871
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 1: terms of antibotic exposure in Western diet. But then you know,

872
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:38,600
Speaker 1: at eighteen nineteen are discovered eating well and living well

873
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 1: and my micro room has bloomed beautifully and I'm still lacking.

874
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:44,760
Speaker 1: I can richness in terms of you know, that progly

875
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:48,319
Speaker 1: micro harm that was causebandobotics. I can't fix in that way,

876
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 1: but I can do the best. I can still have

877
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 1: good health it despite the fact that I hambered my

878
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 1: micro bian when I was yelling. I suppose It's what

879
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 1: I'm trying to illustrate here. And and you're right, what

880
00:43:57,239 --> 00:43:58,920
Speaker 1: diversity is one of the key things we look for

881
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 1: for a healthy microbiome. Yeah, So diversity's got two aspects

882
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:04,720
Speaker 1: to it. One is the richness, so how many different

883
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:07,720
Speaker 1: species there are in that ecosystem, And the second aspect

884
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:10,719
Speaker 1: that is evenness Yes, we don't want one species to

885
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 1: dominate at seventy or eighty percent or fifty percent. You

886
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 1: don't want it to look like a plantation. Should look

887
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:17,799
Speaker 1: like a really like a tropical rainforest where those one

888
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:20,920
Speaker 1: hundred different species all intermingled, so you're not seeing the

889
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:24,200
Speaker 1: same tree everywhere. Yeah, that's what we're aiming for. So

890
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:26,359
Speaker 1: how do we induce that even if we have been

891
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 1: hammered by antibotics and had a let's see section of

892
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:31,200
Speaker 1: birth or formula fed, you know, like an I was

893
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:34,360
Speaker 1: formula fed two. We do that by the techniques we

894
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 1: know that have the biggest impact on enhancing diversity are

895
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:41,279
Speaker 1: eating more plant foods and more fibers, more and a

896
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 1: diversity of plant foods too. You know, we know if

897
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:46,920
Speaker 1: for people who can handle thirty to forty different plant

898
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:49,440
Speaker 1: foods per week in their diet, we have a massive

899
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 1: improvement in diversity. And that may sound scary, but if

900
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:56,360
Speaker 1: you start including Granny Smith apple, Red Delicious apple, Fooji apple,

901
00:44:56,400 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 1: are three different foods, black rice, red rice, brown rice,

902
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 1: three different whole foods, you know, black quinoa, red kinoa,

903
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:05,200
Speaker 1: white king loss. So often when I'm cooking rice, they'll

904
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 1: make the tri color rice, or I'll make three different

905
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 1: types of keen loss, so that for I'm getting three

906
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:11,920
Speaker 1: foods in one, you know, make sure by a variety

907
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:14,719
Speaker 1: of apples. And it's because the different colors, compounds and slight,

908
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 1: different fiber portions actually feed different microbes. And the idea

909
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 1: with having a thirty to forty whole sort of different

910
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:22,480
Speaker 1: plant foods per week is that we have so many

911
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 1: different types of fiber, many different types of polyphenol and polyphenols.

912
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:28,279
Speaker 1: For those who aren't familiar, you're best off thinking of

913
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:30,719
Speaker 1: it as like the colorful compounds and berries and then

914
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:33,280
Speaker 1: eight plant skin and you know those things are usually

915
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:36,239
Speaker 1: up and are always polyphenols. Yeah, they also feed your

916
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:39,280
Speaker 1: instral microbes too. So we have a diet this colorful rainbow,

917
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:43,839
Speaker 1: natural color, not synthetic dry color, but natural. Yes, And

918
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 1: as much you know the diversity of a whole plant foods,

919
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 1: you're going to get a more diverse ecosystem. We also

920
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:52,319
Speaker 1: know that spending time in nature too, and I think

921
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 1: this is something that we're often missing too in our

922
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:58,279
Speaker 1: modern world diversifies their ecosystem. And that's just going for

923
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:01,080
Speaker 1: a walk in nature that work in the park. Yes,

924
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 1: will it work better in a national park. Yes, you know,

925
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:07,720
Speaker 1: the more diverse the eues and you're in lovely rainforest environment.

926
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:10,600
Speaker 1: National park is going to be better than the playground

927
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:12,239
Speaker 1: down the street. But the playgund down the street is

928
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:13,719
Speaker 1: better than being in your apartment, you know, or in

929
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 1: your house. You're still going to pick up micros.

930
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 2: For that, so I'll just to add in there. And

931
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:20,440
Speaker 2: the ocean as well. You can actually pick up microbes

932
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:22,319
Speaker 2: because I live near the beach and I did a

933
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:24,839
Speaker 2: podcast on that. Like being spending time in nature, whether

934
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 2: it's in trees around the beach, you actually absorb some

935
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 2: of those microbes and calculated into your microbomes.

936
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:33,279
Speaker 1: Co shit, right, it's really amazing. And following that on

937
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:36,080
Speaker 1: that too, they've looked at people's gardens and I'm not

938
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:38,359
Speaker 1: even talking here about food gardens, but we will later,

939
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:41,400
Speaker 1: But just the number of ornamental plants you have growing

940
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 1: in your yard, the greater diversity of ornamental plants you

941
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:46,879
Speaker 1: have growing, the more diverse you've got microbiome. Because each

942
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 1: of those ornamental plants had this own microbiome. So you're

943
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:52,960
Speaker 1: interacting with those plants. You're weeding, you're pruning, you're touching smelling,

944
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:56,279
Speaker 1: you're actually in getting more microbes in your ecosystem, and

945
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:58,279
Speaker 1: we take that another level in terms of we're able

946
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:00,040
Speaker 1: to grow around food too. You know, if it's some

947
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 1: of those foods, because we actually get soil bacteria, we

948
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 1: get the microbes on those foods in a very natural,

949
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 1: lack of a better word, natural way.

950
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:08,239
Speaker 2: You know.

951
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:10,719
Speaker 1: There's I was at a conference in Italy just wise.

952
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:14,800
Speaker 1: I was there in July and there's microbiome conference and

953
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:17,720
Speaker 1: one of the researchers there was talking about the microbiomes

954
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:20,799
Speaker 1: on plant foods and the importance of microbiomes in plants too,

955
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:22,839
Speaker 1: and we able to talk about human microbiomes. Well, turns

956
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:25,520
Speaker 1: out plant microbiomes are just as important to them as

957
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:28,560
Speaker 1: they are to us. But they did research on cold

958
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:31,960
Speaker 1: stored apples versus local apples, and the cold stored apples

959
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 1: had the same number of microbes on them, but diversity

960
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:38,319
Speaker 1: was almost minimal. So the cold stored mit microbiome had

961
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 1: a very low low diversity, whereas your fresh, your local

962
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:44,279
Speaker 1: apple was full of a wider diversity of microbes. And

963
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:47,000
Speaker 1: they found that across different foods. Yeah, foods that were

964
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:50,239
Speaker 1: grown organically had again the number of microbes on them.

965
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:52,720
Speaker 1: It wasn't different. It was the diversity of the microbe,

966
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 1: the richness of the ecosm was completely different. With organic

967
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 1: foods versus conventionally grown food completely different if you bought

968
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:00,799
Speaker 1: it your farmer's market versus is the supermarket.

969
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was oblid to say, don't buy your freakin

970
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:05,640
Speaker 2: fright and veggies in the supermarket if you can, if

971
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:08,080
Speaker 2: you can avoid farmers markets of the way ahead.

972
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 1: Because it turns out that that the supermarket the supermarket

973
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:15,320
Speaker 1: microbiome that goes across plants. So if we're buying cauliflower, broccoli,

974
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:18,279
Speaker 1: eight plant apple from the supermarket, their ecosystems are on

975
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 1: those foods are essentially the same, whereas in the real world,

976
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 1: each of those foods has got a completely different microbiome,

977
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:27,920
Speaker 1: and when we're consuming those foods, we get those microbes too.

978
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:30,080
Speaker 1: Some will be tempered visitors, some will be longer term

979
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:32,719
Speaker 1: inhabitants from that, but obviously we're eating them a loft

980
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:34,400
Speaker 1: and they kind of play the same role as a

981
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:38,120
Speaker 1: commensal micro would as well. It's really is fascinating, really

982
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 1: illustrates the importance of buying, find local, buying your supermarket,

983
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 1: growing at least some of your own food getting in nature,

984
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 1: you know, because I think those are things that we

985
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 1: sometimes have dropped away. And I think industry has been

986
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 1: propped similar to blame for this too, because they just

987
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 1: like just take a pro products like no, yeah, I

988
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:55,560
Speaker 1: think you're trying to improve your diversity. Proboduict scellments have

989
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:56,400
Speaker 1: a minimal impact.

990
00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're they're transient, right, products emotions.

991
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:02,600
Speaker 1: Those people don't know that either. You're right that with

992
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:05,920
Speaker 1: the odd exception study of the last forty years have

993
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:08,959
Speaker 1: shown that they stick around for one, two, three, five

994
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:11,760
Speaker 1: to ten days. That's it after you start taking their gone.

995
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 2: And isn't there an issue Jason that with people who

996
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:20,799
Speaker 2: overconsume probiotics can in some cases get sebo small intestinal

997
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:22,560
Speaker 2: bacterial overgrowthiar Is that.

998
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:25,800
Speaker 1: I think that was over overplayed. No, I think that

999
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:29,040
Speaker 1: would be very unlikely scenario because the one study that

1000
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:34,160
Speaker 1: purported to show a correlation between probotic use and brain

1001
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:36,719
Speaker 1: fog and ceboat when they did if you're looking to

1002
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:39,520
Speaker 1: find details of that paper, which I have, it was

1003
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:43,000
Speaker 1: they actually sampled the microbiome in the small vow of

1004
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 1: these people and they did not have bifcobacteria, which you

1005
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:48,920
Speaker 1: find in product seglements, and almost nover had lack of

1006
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:52,080
Speaker 1: sily growing there what they had with Steptococcus growing the

1007
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:56,520
Speaker 1: vast majority of them, which comes from our spit primarily,

1008
00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 1: but also some some of your burds might contain a

1009
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:00,800
Speaker 1: lot of stripper cocci, but it really did not correlate

1010
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:04,000
Speaker 1: with with probodic use when they're they're small valants.

1011
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:06,920
Speaker 2: Okay, it just explode exploded that myth. I read the

1012
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:09,360
Speaker 2: paper the lesson read the paper in detail.

1013
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:13,839
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, what if you read the conclusion that would

1014
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:15,839
Speaker 1: have been totally the head It's true because I think

1015
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:19,040
Speaker 1: he miss missed. Sometimes when you're writing up a paper,

1016
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:20,960
Speaker 1: there are certain bits that you can take out that

1017
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:23,880
Speaker 1: read more headline grabbing than other bits. Yeah, and if

1018
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 1: you actually look at the microbiology component, it does not

1019
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:27,680
Speaker 1: support them. Dolying.

1020
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 2: And sometimes researchers give a conclusion which when you look

1021
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:34,879
Speaker 2: at the data, is actually not supported. I've talked about

1022
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:37,239
Speaker 2: that before, right, Okay.

1023
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:38,840
Speaker 1: Even though as someone who's tried to get research published,

1024
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:41,319
Speaker 1: sometimes we had to tone down. You know, we first

1025
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:43,280
Speaker 1: did a system. I could be looking at a particular

1026
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:47,320
Speaker 1: probotic for antabotic associated diarrhea. I think with nine studies

1027
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:49,719
Speaker 1: all it should have worked. And I wanted to say

1028
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:52,759
Speaker 1: it worked, and the peer reviewers like, no, you still

1029
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 1: can't say it work. You have to say it might work.

1030
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:57,360
Speaker 1: You know, need lots more studies. I'm like, what's the

1031
00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:00,400
Speaker 1: risk in this situation if people just start taking this

1032
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:03,680
Speaker 1: at least diarrhe orally slide of et cetera. Anyway, But sometimes,

1033
00:51:03,719 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 1: you know, pe reviewers do force us to change our

1034
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:08,640
Speaker 1: statements when we get things polished.

1035
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:10,439
Speaker 2: To we are a little running out of time, which

1036
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:13,320
Speaker 2: is unfortunate. But I do want to talk about aging

1037
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:18,560
Speaker 2: and the microbiome, right because aging well is a big

1038
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:22,280
Speaker 2: thing now, I'm rightly so. And you know, I've seen

1039
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 2: a fur bit of research that when people age, their

1040
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:30,520
Speaker 2: microbiome changes, it becomes narrower and it changes. What do

1041
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:35,600
Speaker 2: we know about coincidence versus cause and effect, And just

1042
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:37,600
Speaker 2: give us the state of play on all of this.

1043
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:40,600
Speaker 1: Listen, in Western nations, where I'd say we age in

1044
00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:45,040
Speaker 1: general poorly, we do see a change of the microbiome.

1045
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:47,920
Speaker 1: We see lacking and changing diversity, reducing and diversity you

1046
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:51,360
Speaker 1: mentioned before, decreased level of beneficial microbes that would be

1047
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:55,880
Speaker 1: bifito bacteria for example, b rate producing microbes Ficali bacting,

1048
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:57,279
Speaker 1: which is the micro we haven't talked about much, but

1049
00:51:57,320 --> 00:52:00,120
Speaker 1: it's actually lovely microbe will tend to go down. We

1050
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:03,840
Speaker 1: see these blooms of proteobacteria that antion is for, like E. Coli.

1051
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:06,840
Speaker 1: And also another group of bacteria that produced hydrogen sulfide

1052
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:09,560
Speaker 1: gas one called billifhyla and sulfur. Your bread is going

1053
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:12,520
Speaker 1: into more specific detail. They tend to bloom the last

1054
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:15,920
Speaker 1: bit as we age. Yeah, and and those pupul cans

1055
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 1: do age well, those micro bloom much later. So for

1056
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:21,240
Speaker 1: us in western nations, it might be the change occurs

1057
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:23,560
Speaker 1: in our sixties, but those people who are in those

1058
00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:26,080
Speaker 1: sort of maybe blue zones or people age well, that

1059
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:29,239
Speaker 1: same changes occur, but in the nineties, need to give

1060
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:31,920
Speaker 1: some context. We see the same changes, but it happens

1061
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:34,480
Speaker 1: at a different different time point. Yeah, and that's where

1062
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:37,120
Speaker 1: the lifestyle dietary factors I think are key, you know,

1063
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:41,160
Speaker 1: we you know, I think they are more contributed to

1064
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:44,719
Speaker 1: what we see is the aging microbiome changes than aging physiology.

1065
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:46,440
Speaker 1: I think there's a component of that, like there is

1066
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:49,359
Speaker 1: some researching we might have. You know, we make less

1067
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:51,799
Speaker 1: mucous you know, as we age, and that can mean

1068
00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:54,240
Speaker 1: that you know, more can change what micros are being fed,

1069
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:57,239
Speaker 1: can change what micro components get into our bloodstream from that.

1070
00:52:57,600 --> 00:52:59,520
Speaker 1: But I think more research is focused on Okay, well,

1071
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:01,839
Speaker 1: it's actually as people age, they tend to eat more

1072
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:03,960
Speaker 1: crap food. You know, they're not preparing food in the

1073
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:05,839
Speaker 1: same way that they had before because that maybe they

1074
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:07,520
Speaker 1: have less energy to do so, or the less reason

1075
00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 1: to do so. Like once your kids leave home. You know,

1076
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:12,520
Speaker 1: I'm finding it that I don't have a family to

1077
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:14,560
Speaker 1: cook for. I don't cook nearly as much as I do,

1078
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:17,200
Speaker 1: and I've got three three kids to cook for, Like

1079
00:53:17,239 --> 00:53:20,520
Speaker 1: I make a huge feast with amazing yummy food. You know.

1080
00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:23,479
Speaker 2: So do people tend to have much narrower dieuts as well,

1081
00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:26,400
Speaker 2: don't they? Because they become creatives and habits and then Jesus,

1082
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:28,960
Speaker 2: you go into you go into a retirement village and

1083
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:31,640
Speaker 2: all people so they just feed just cheap ship.

1084
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:34,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, process all through process food, you know, and that

1085
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 1: that hastens the whole aging process. Yeah, yeah, so I

1086
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:40,600
Speaker 1: do think there again, we can be proactive by the

1087
00:53:40,719 --> 00:53:43,600
Speaker 1: strategies we talked about before getting nature and eating it.

1088
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:46,520
Speaker 1: The resprict you plant rich diet. Yeah, so I had

1089
00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 1: lots of legomes, lots of hohole grains.

1090
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:50,759
Speaker 2: Do what they do in Japan, the icky guy. Grow

1091
00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:53,560
Speaker 2: your own vegetables, grow your own food right as you

1092
00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:56,279
Speaker 2: as you have a bit more time instead of sit

1093
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:57,600
Speaker 2: much in a friggin TV.

1094
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:01,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, indeed, and then even just could stroll the nature,

1095
00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:03,160
Speaker 1: you know, throll down to the beach you got. You know,

1096
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:05,839
Speaker 1: we should have more time to actually enjoy nature at

1097
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:08,960
Speaker 1: that age. We should, but often if we haven't take

1098
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:11,719
Speaker 1: care of ourselves adequately in earlier years, sometimes not as

1099
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:13,799
Speaker 1: to be able to get out into nature at that point,

1100
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:15,919
Speaker 1: which is one of those verbal conndrums that we find

1101
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:17,200
Speaker 1: ourselves in Western nations.

1102
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:20,320
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, and I think to underscore just as we

1103
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:22,560
Speaker 2: were talking for a couple of minutes before we came

1104
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:25,440
Speaker 2: on our there was a pretty seminal paper released, I

1105
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:29,400
Speaker 2: think it was twenty fourteen about the major hallmarks of aging,

1106
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:33,040
Speaker 2: and they identified nine different hallmarks of aging such as

1107
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:38,400
Speaker 2: telemere shortening, DNA damage, inflammation, proteo stasis damage, all of

1108
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:43,360
Speaker 2: these things. But just last year an update was released

1109
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:47,320
Speaker 2: and added two more hallmarks of aging, one of which

1110
00:54:47,560 --> 00:54:52,160
Speaker 2: was the changes in the gut microbiome being causative for

1111
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:55,000
Speaker 2: aging and actual process that's that's causative.

1112
00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:57,279
Speaker 1: So and then again talking about going back to the

1113
00:54:57,320 --> 00:55:00,279
Speaker 1: fecal transplants, there's been so many studies now in ice

1114
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:03,160
Speaker 1: where they can take a Pooh transplant from an old mouse,

1115
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:06,960
Speaker 1: give it to a young one, and they essentially age quickly.

1116
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:10,400
Speaker 1: You know, they can develop like the brain patterns changes,

1117
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:13,439
Speaker 1: the brain chemeratry changes, the metallites and their bloodstream change.

1118
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:17,200
Speaker 1: They essentially age immensely quickly. And conversely, they can take

1119
00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:19,719
Speaker 1: a Pooh transplant from a young healthy one and give

1120
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:22,560
Speaker 1: it to a older one and it actually again it

1121
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:25,279
Speaker 1: reverses the aging process to a certain degree. You know.

1122
00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:29,360
Speaker 1: So there's enough evidence around the causation stuff with microbiome

1123
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:31,839
Speaker 1: in terms of speeding up the aging process or flowing

1124
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:33,680
Speaker 1: down the aging process. It really does need to be

1125
00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:37,080
Speaker 1: on our radar, and it's someone like I'm fifteen one now,

1126
00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:39,040
Speaker 1: it's like a totally on my radar that you know

1127
00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:41,000
Speaker 1: that I want to age well, have a good health span.

1128
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:42,560
Speaker 1: I don't want to be someone who's stuck in bed

1129
00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:44,080
Speaker 1: for the last twenty years of my life. I want

1130
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:46,279
Speaker 1: to be hiking mountains up until I'm ninety, you know,

1131
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:47,520
Speaker 1: and I would be able to do everything I want

1132
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:50,760
Speaker 1: to do. And part of that is definitely of microbiome support,

1133
00:55:50,840 --> 00:55:52,920
Speaker 1: you know, looking after those the good bactories best we

1134
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:56,359
Speaker 1: can and suppressing levels of those in pro inflammatory path

1135
00:55:56,400 --> 00:55:59,439
Speaker 1: of bonds or protei bactories specifically, and that means which

1136
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:01,920
Speaker 1: we can do through lifestyle, doctory choices. I think that's

1137
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:04,920
Speaker 1: the thing. Fecal transplant studies are cool because they can

1138
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:07,240
Speaker 1: show these really quick changes, but we don't need fecal

1139
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:09,760
Speaker 1: transplants to change the microbiome, you know, getting in nature,

1140
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:12,719
Speaker 1: eating the right food for medicine, and to use lots

1141
00:56:12,719 --> 00:56:15,239
Speaker 1: of probodics to help speed that process along too. There's

1142
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:17,280
Speaker 1: so much we can do that don't need the big

1143
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:20,680
Speaker 1: of a fecal transplant. You know. It's a very quick

1144
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:22,439
Speaker 1: way of doing it versus you know, changing your diet

1145
00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:25,160
Speaker 1: and lifestyle will take more work and take more time,

1146
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:27,080
Speaker 1: but you get profound changes in the microbiome.

1147
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:31,120
Speaker 2: And also managing stress is important as well, because stress

1148
00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:34,600
Speaker 2: can change the microbiome too, so it's a two way interaction, right.

1149
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:36,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll I had of patients just this week who

1150
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:39,560
Speaker 1: stress with job situation brought on a flare of their

1151
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:42,440
Speaker 1: their crones disease. And that's it's not uncommon in the

1152
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:46,000
Speaker 1: Chrohnes literature, but it's essentially through microbiome changes. At least

1153
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:47,960
Speaker 1: one of their magazines, what is going on because there

1154
00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:51,640
Speaker 1: are again those protebactery their populations go up when exposed

1155
00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:54,719
Speaker 1: to stress, womens and our good back factory populations go down.

1156
00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:57,000
Speaker 1: That's what's shown. Even in the nineteen seventies and eighties

1157
00:56:57,200 --> 00:56:59,400
Speaker 1: and nineties we had research sharing the negative impact of

1158
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:01,080
Speaker 1: stress microbiome composition.

1159
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:04,880
Speaker 2: Yeah wow, Jason, this has been a tour to force

1160
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:08,760
Speaker 2: of the microbiome. So, I know you consult with patients

1161
00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:11,600
Speaker 2: and I think you're still open to taking on patients.

1162
00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:15,480
Speaker 2: But you also have a whole heap of online educational courses,

1163
00:57:15,520 --> 00:57:19,640
Speaker 2: both for clinicians and probably for interested end users. So

1164
00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:23,400
Speaker 2: where do people go a if they want to? Presumably

1165
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:26,440
Speaker 2: you'll do microbiome testing and then interventions with you with

1166
00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:27,160
Speaker 2: your patients. Yeah.

1167
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:29,520
Speaker 1: Microbime work is the core aspect of my clinical practice

1168
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:30,040
Speaker 1: these days.

1169
00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:32,160
Speaker 2: Coast so where do people go for that? And then

1170
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:34,520
Speaker 2: where do they go if they are interested in more

1171
00:57:34,560 --> 00:57:36,360
Speaker 2: and want to take some of your online courses.

1172
00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:40,120
Speaker 1: Yes, so I've got probably three three different umbrellas. My

1173
00:57:40,200 --> 00:57:43,200
Speaker 1: clinic is the Horrible I. Gut In Microbiome Clinic, and

1174
00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:46,160
Speaker 1: I've got a number of microbiome trained concients who work

1175
00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:49,160
Speaker 1: with me to satisfy the desire to have you know,

1176
00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:52,160
Speaker 1: microbrome clintions to work with for range of chronic diseases

1177
00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:55,920
Speaker 1: or just for optimizing health. I've got the Microbiome Restoration Center,

1178
00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:59,120
Speaker 1: which is my sort of main educational center platform where

1179
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:02,760
Speaker 1: we have courses primarily for health professionals to obscull them,

1180
00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:04,720
Speaker 1: but you know, both in terms of they did have

1181
00:58:05,120 --> 00:58:09,000
Speaker 1: Advanced Microbiome Manipulation course, which is about making people microbime analyst.

1182
00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:10,600
Speaker 1: Thats at the end of going let's do ten weeks

1183
00:58:10,640 --> 00:58:14,240
Speaker 1: of intense training on microbiome analysis to become proficient at

1184
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:17,080
Speaker 1: this task. And another course on sort of treating gastroenttrology

1185
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:20,200
Speaker 1: conditions like IBS and reflux and things with you know,

1186
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:23,520
Speaker 1: evidence based natural medicines and lifestyle and dietary and modifications.

1187
00:58:23,560 --> 00:58:25,360
Speaker 1: And then the probotic Advisor is my other sort of

1188
00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:27,800
Speaker 1: umbrella where we have that pro evidence based database, and

1189
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:30,560
Speaker 1: we do have some the odd course more through general

1190
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:33,080
Speaker 1: public too, like the Media Microbiome course, it's asigned for

1191
00:58:33,120 --> 00:58:35,360
Speaker 1: the general public, but most of my offerings these days

1192
00:58:35,360 --> 00:58:38,040
Speaker 1: that are cured in for health professionals, because I mean

1193
00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:40,760
Speaker 1: I I've been teaching health professionals probably from two thousand

1194
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:42,760
Speaker 1: and one when I first started teaching, so long time.

1195
00:58:43,160 --> 00:58:43,680
Speaker 2: I love it.

1196
00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:46,360
Speaker 1: It is my third seat of teaching population. But I

1197
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:48,800
Speaker 1: also I've been working with patients for you know, nearly

1198
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:50,880
Speaker 1: twenty five years too, so I so we love being

1199
00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:54,680
Speaker 1: in the trenches and actually describing things, doing microbiome work

1200
00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:57,440
Speaker 1: and seeing the before and after tests and how they feel,

1201
00:58:57,480 --> 00:58:58,680
Speaker 1: you know, the number of time do you change the

1202
00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:01,560
Speaker 1: microbiome and oh I've got more energy, Oh the brain

1203
00:59:01,600 --> 00:59:03,880
Speaker 1: fogs go on. Oh the longer the press are anxious.

1204
00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:05,400
Speaker 1: It's just like, you know, some of those things that

1205
00:59:05,720 --> 00:59:08,920
Speaker 1: seem so core ingrained that we can just change to

1206
00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:11,640
Speaker 1: changing the microbiome composition, making the gun function better. It's

1207
00:59:11,680 --> 00:59:13,560
Speaker 1: just amazing to see in real life practice.

1208
00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:18,400
Speaker 2: It is pretty amazing. Jason, you are on the forefront

1209
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:20,760
Speaker 2: of the well. I think is probably a nix from

1210
00:59:20,800 --> 00:59:24,040
Speaker 2: tier in medicine, and those traditionalists who think that the

1211
00:59:24,160 --> 00:59:27,360
Speaker 2: got microbiome has got no role to play in medicine

1212
00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:30,920
Speaker 2: need to get their heads out of their arsesruly do.

1213
00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:32,680
Speaker 1: And even I want to hearing people say, oh, we

1214
00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:34,720
Speaker 1: don't know enough to the move yet, I'm like, oh

1215
00:59:34,840 --> 00:59:38,080
Speaker 1: my god, Like, how many more cuities do we need? Like,

1216
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:40,320
Speaker 1: and it's because you don't know enough doesn't mean other

1217
00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:42,200
Speaker 1: people don't. Yeah, that's the thing too. I agree, you

1218
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:44,520
Speaker 1: don't know enough to make any changes here, but there

1219
00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:46,480
Speaker 1: are people who do. There are people who spent twenty

1220
00:59:46,520 --> 00:59:48,800
Speaker 1: years researching or more, and they do know how to

1221
00:59:48,880 --> 00:59:50,600
Speaker 1: change the microbiome, and they do know how to actually

1222
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:52,960
Speaker 1: a positive health changes from that. Yeah, so I think

1223
00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:54,640
Speaker 1: ignore those maysayers there too.

1224
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:57,600
Speaker 2: One last question now that I've wrapped up, But how

1225
00:59:57,680 --> 01:00:00,520
Speaker 2: far away do you think that we are are from

1226
01:00:00,680 --> 01:00:03,240
Speaker 2: personalized diets based on the microbiome?

1227
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:05,400
Speaker 1: I mean you can do a degree of that now

1228
01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:08,000
Speaker 1: for sure. Yeah, we can do microbon picture going eat

1229
01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:09,760
Speaker 1: more of these food lets of these food then we'll

1230
01:00:09,840 --> 01:00:12,720
Speaker 1: generally see the changes we want to see. Okay, but

1231
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:15,800
Speaker 1: some people react uniquely the things that don't react as

1232
01:00:15,880 --> 01:00:18,240
Speaker 1: as in typical. So I think there are some exceptions

1233
01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:21,560
Speaker 1: to that that that as clinician can be challenging because

1234
01:00:21,560 --> 01:00:24,160
Speaker 1: it's like research telling me this what this substance it does.

1235
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:26,600
Speaker 1: It does this in not even of my patients totally

1236
01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:28,480
Speaker 1: fine as it does in the research for thecation person

1237
01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:29,840
Speaker 1: it doesn't, and then you have to be trying to

1238
01:00:29,960 --> 01:00:30,600
Speaker 1: work at why.

1239
01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:32,320
Speaker 2: Then we always have autos right exactly?

1240
01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:34,520
Speaker 1: Ye? Yeah, yeah, so I think we're already there to

1241
01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:37,160
Speaker 1: a certain degree. Yeah. I think again, as research moves

1242
01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:40,760
Speaker 1: into greater detail with the microbiome, will become better with it,

1243
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:43,200
Speaker 1: even still than what we are now. But I think

1244
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:45,280
Speaker 1: there's still enough there now that we can we can

1245
01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:51,280
Speaker 1: put together, you know, internalized dietary prebotic regime to optimize

1246
01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:52,960
Speaker 1: your ecosystem based on your initial picture.

1247
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:56,160
Speaker 2: Yes, awesome, good stuff, thanks mate.

1248
01:00:56,320 --> 01:00:56,760
Speaker 1: That's right,