Speaker 1: I tell him, it's it's mayhem here before the before
Speaker 1: the go buttoners pressed, it's complete mayhem. But now we
Speaker 1: get ourselves back in order, we straighten up a little bit,
Speaker 1: We sit straighter at our desk. Tivity and Cook is
Speaker 1: much to David Gillespie's sheer delight tivity. An Cook is
Speaker 1: joining us live. It's not a post production editing scenario.
Speaker 1: You're here in real time, real time.
Speaker 2: And if I add the preamble to the show, I
Speaker 2: won't have a job. So that's disappointing.
Speaker 1: Well, if you, yeah, if any of us do, we
Speaker 1: won't have a job. Because we were sharing a few
Speaker 1: thoughts on a few things, it probably better that we
Speaker 1: don't share on a potty. Maybe one day when it's
Speaker 1: like there's only a week of the world left to live,
Speaker 1: maybe when you know we're spinning out of control as
Speaker 1: a planet heading towards some kind of devastating destruction, we'll
Speaker 1: talk about it. But tonight is that it sounds like
Speaker 1: the now has to me, Hi, David, are you good?
Speaker 3: Good to be here?
Speaker 4: I sent and I'm not going to say what it
Speaker 4: is everyone, but I said, I said, I had an idea,
Speaker 4: and I sent it to David yesterday, maybe we'd talk
Speaker 4: about this, And then after I sent it, I went, no,
Speaker 4: we're not talking about that.
Speaker 1: And then we just jumped on before and he goes,
Speaker 1: you know that thing you sent? No, I went yeah,
Speaker 1: he goes, we're not talking about that. I went correct.
Speaker 1: So I'll tell you what we are going to talk about,
Speaker 1: which you and I haven't spoken about for a long time.
Speaker 1: Just because well just actually really because I had a conversation,
Speaker 1: quite a long conversation this morning with somebody about this,
Speaker 1: and that is I just wanted to revisit the sugar
Speaker 1: conversation because I want to see. So you wrote Sweet
Speaker 1: Poison in two thousand and eight.
Speaker 3: Yep, so I wrote it in two thousand and seven, right,
Speaker 3: My publishers finally got around of putting it out in
Speaker 3: two that.
Speaker 1: So the publisher fucked around for a year, and you
Speaker 1: wrote it in two thousand and Evan, So that is
Speaker 1: seventeen year geez, that's a long time ago. So seventeen
Speaker 1: years ago you were speaking about the you know, the
Speaker 1: low sugar, reduced sugar, fuck off sugar gospel. You were
Speaker 1: evangelizing the world. What's the how have we gone over
Speaker 1: the last well since publication. How have we gone over
Speaker 1: the last sixteen years? Are we eating less sugar? Is
Speaker 1: it just been I just I just googled how many
Speaker 1: different names for sugar are there and it came up
Speaker 1: sixty one sixty one different types of sugar. So is
Speaker 1: there just as much sugar being consumed or have we
Speaker 1: improved in some way or don't you know?
Speaker 3: The answer is we don't know for sure. And the
Speaker 3: reason for that is quite interesting because the sugar lobby
Speaker 3: has worked very, very hard to make sure that accurate
Speaker 3: statistics on sugar usage are not collected, both in the
Speaker 3: United States and in Australia. So the ABS the RAM
Speaker 3: Bureau Statistics discontinued its series on sugar consumption in nineteen
Speaker 3: ninety eight after some intense lobbying, and so we don't
Speaker 3: really know how much sugar Australians are consuming. There have
Speaker 3: been some intermittent surveys, and surveys, as you might guess
Speaker 3: in nutrition, mostly rubbish. And that's because, believe it or not,
Speaker 3: people don't tell the truth about how much sugar they're consuming.
Speaker 3: And even if they know how much sugar they're consuming,
Speaker 3: they're still not going to tell the truth about it.
Speaker 1: So yeah, well, that reminds me of trying to get
Speaker 1: Australians sugar consumption statistics. I just brought that up trying
Speaker 1: to I mean, I know this is obvious, we'll come
Speaker 1: back to sugar in one second, but trying to find
Speaker 1: statistics on how often people lieally, that's a thing.
Speaker 3: Even the ABS acknowledges that in the stuff they do
Speaker 3: publish and they say that look sugar. Well, not to sugar,
Speaker 3: but any food intake survey data is very very unreliable,
Speaker 3: and they've got all sorts of interesting statistics about how
Speaker 3: very unreliable it is, so you really can't take them
Speaker 3: too seriously. You can do some back of the envelope
Speaker 3: sort of stuff though, just by looking at total consumption
Speaker 3: of goods sold that we're without explicitly looking at sugar,
Speaker 3: not breaking it down to that, but sort of looking
Speaker 3: at things like categories like breakfast, cereals, soft drinks, things
Speaker 3: like that, So you can do a little bit of
Speaker 3: backward calculation on that sort of thing. And I think
Speaker 3: a conservative measure of it is that the average Australian
Speaker 3: is putting away about forty t spoons of sugar a day,
Speaker 3: which is a serious quantity of sugar. But and most
Speaker 3: people would say, well, you know, maybe Harps is doing that,
Speaker 3: but I I'm not getting anywhere near forty tea spoons
Speaker 3: of sugar. That's if you think about adding forty teaspoons
Speaker 3: of sugar to your food, most peo would say, I
Speaker 3: don't add any you know, I threw the sugar pot
Speaker 3: out years ago, And the reason for that is you
Speaker 3: don't have to. I mean, you look at a breakfast cereal,
Speaker 3: you know, like say Sultana brand or Neutral Grain or
Speaker 3: something like that. It's going to be a quarter to
Speaker 3: a third sugar. So you have one hundred grams of it.
Speaker 3: There's you know, twenty five thirty grams of sugar straight away,
Speaker 3: and you know, four grams per teaspoon. It's not hard
Speaker 3: to get to forty tea spoons. In fact, if you
Speaker 3: do the masks on it and say, okay, I'm going
Speaker 3: to sit down to a heart foundation to prove breakfast
Speaker 3: of Sultana brand and a glass of orange juice, and
Speaker 3: you're at about twenty teaspoons of sugar before you push
Speaker 3: back from that. So you don't have to go anywhere
Speaker 3: near a mars bar or a coke. You're already at
Speaker 3: half the average Australian consumption of sugar. And when you
Speaker 3: compare that to say, the early eighteen hundreds, before sugar
Speaker 3: was able to be mass produced in commercial quantities, we
Speaker 3: were consuming about two teaspoons per person per day and
Speaker 3: that mostly came from honey and fresh fruit. Now we
Speaker 3: haven't changed that much. We're still getting about two teaspoons
Speaker 3: per person per day from honey and fresh fruit, and
Speaker 3: we just lay it on an extra thirty eight in
Speaker 3: sugar added into the food supply.
Speaker 1: I remember a lady coming to see me years ago, David,
Speaker 1: who told me she didn't have any sugar in her diet.
Speaker 1: And she literally thought that she didn't because she didn't
Speaker 1: add sugar to anything. And then so I sat down
Speaker 1: with her. I had a one and a half hour
Speaker 1: console with her, and I said, you know what she
Speaker 1: ate in a typical day, you know, and what she drank,
Speaker 1: what she consumed in a typical day, And I can't
Speaker 1: remember exactly, but yeah, it was somewhere around thirty tea spoons,
Speaker 1: despite the fact that she had no sugar in inverted
Speaker 1: commas in her diet. And she was like she was
Speaker 1: completely unaware, you know.
Speaker 3: Well, most a lot of people are. I mean people
Speaker 3: will say to you, look, I understand that there's sugar
Speaker 3: and coke, but you know I don't drink coke. You
Speaker 3: so what do you drink? Oh, I have a nice coffee.
Speaker 3: Well there's more sugar in a nice coffee than there
Speaker 3: isn't a coke. Yes, you know, Australia's consumption of sugar
Speaker 3: in liquid form is actually highest in dairy products, not
Speaker 3: not in soft drinks. Soft drinks are actually in full sugar.
Speaker 3: Soft drinks are in serious trouble. I mean there's a
Speaker 3: massive decline. So you know, I'm going to take credit
Speaker 3: for that. Since two thousand and seven, there's been a
Speaker 3: massive decline in soft drink consumption, full sugar, soft drink.
Speaker 3: And you can see that going to a supermarket. You're
Speaker 3: not to a supermarket now, and the soft drink aisle
Speaker 3: is still there, but there's an awful lot of sugar
Speaker 3: free stuff there and very little of the full stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I mean we've mentioned this once before at least,
Speaker 1: but people might be blown away to know that something
Speaker 1: like barbecue sugar Peru barbecue sauce, I should say barbecue sugar.
Speaker 1: That was faux pa wasn't it. Barbecue is the same thing. Well,
Speaker 1: it's about fifty two grams per hundred grams. So for say,
Speaker 1: you know, let's say you've got a two hundred mill cup,
Speaker 1: so you've got two hundred grams of that source. Then
Speaker 1: of that about well more than half of the cup
Speaker 1: is sugar. So I mean things like that where people
Speaker 1: think it's essentially even peanut butter, which you think, oh,
Speaker 1: that's nuts and it's salty, but most peanut butters are
Speaker 1: somewhere between ten and twenty percent sugar because it's got
Speaker 1: added sugar. Not all of them are course jams. You go,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, but jams fruit, But it's still incredibly high.
Speaker 1: And some of those I won't name names because I
Speaker 1: don't want it. Well I should name names because they
Speaker 1: can't sue me because it's just fucking information. It's not
Speaker 1: an opinion. But a lot of those smoothie bars and
Speaker 1: those you know kind of juice kind of bar places
Speaker 1: that sell you know, these mega energy drinks and stuff
Speaker 1: which you know them, have got heading towards one hundred
Speaker 1: grams of sugar in one of their large servings, which
Speaker 1: is twenty or twenty something teaspoons.
Speaker 3: There's no functional difference between a glass of apple juice
Speaker 3: and a glass of coke. They both have about the
Speaker 3: same amount of sugar in them, so one has bubbles
Speaker 3: in it and the other doesn't. But that's about it.
Speaker 3: So anyone who tells you that a juice of any
Speaker 3: kind is any kind of health food is delusional if
Speaker 3: they believe it. But you know, and the manufacturers have
Speaker 3: been onto this for a long time. So you know,
Speaker 3: yogurt produces, for example, you have to put sugar in
Speaker 3: yogurt to make it palatable to someone who's used to
Speaker 3: eating sugar. And pretty quickly people got onto the fact
Speaker 3: that there was more sugar in the average yogurt than
Speaker 3: in a bowl of ice cream, and so, but it
Speaker 3: was being sold as health food. So the manufacturers started saying, ah,
Speaker 3: we'll put a label on it that says no cane
Speaker 3: sugar in this yogurt, and there isn't because they're using
Speaker 3: concentrated fruit juice instead, which is still for it doesn't
Speaker 3: matter whether the sugar got squeezed out of a piece
Speaker 3: of sugar cane or got squeezed out of an apple
Speaker 3: or an orange. It's still sugar.
Speaker 1: So whether or not we look like. I guess some
Speaker 1: of the more common ones or forms, you know, fructose
Speaker 1: or fructose, glucose, lactose, soucrose, which is just sugar in it.
Speaker 1: Do they all have a very similar consequence in the body.
Speaker 3: No. No, And this is the interesting bit. The only
Speaker 3: one of the ones you mentioned that's a problem is fructose.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to say that.
Speaker 3: So the rest of them metabolized to glucose. And when
Speaker 3: a sugar is metabolized to glucose, that's not a problem
Speaker 3: for us because evolution has set us up to have
Speaker 3: glucose as our primary source of energy. So we have
Speaker 3: enormously complex systems to manage our intake of glucose and
Speaker 3: to manage our intake of anything that can be converted
Speaker 3: to glucose because it's our primary energy source. So when
Speaker 3: we've had enough of that, we stop eating. Because fructose
Speaker 3: is relatively really rare in our environment, we don't do that.
Speaker 3: We have no biochemical breaks on fructose. It's something that
Speaker 3: is metabolized immediately to fat in our liver and stored immediately.
Speaker 3: It was a bonus in evolutionary times coming across a
Speaker 3: piece of ripe fruit that could deliver you a fructose
Speaker 3: hit was a bonus. You didn't want your body shutting
Speaker 3: down your ability to consume it because you were going
Speaker 3: to get one shot at this thing. You wanted our
Speaker 3: eat as much of it as you possibly could, and
Speaker 3: you wanted it stored as body fat as soon as possible.
Speaker 3: So we have no evolutionary controls on fructose, but we
Speaker 3: have controls on every other sugar we consume. And that's
Speaker 3: the trick. That's the problem with fructose. If we've gone
Speaker 3: from an environment where it was really really rare and
Speaker 3: a real advantage to have no control over it, to
Speaker 3: an environment where it's been added to every single part
Speaker 3: of our food supply because it's addictive as well, and
Speaker 3: food manufacturers know that food with sugar added sells a
Speaker 3: lot better than food without sugar, so it's added into
Speaker 3: our entire food supply. So we've gone from an environment
Speaker 3: where we almost never encountered it, and when we did,
Speaker 3: it was it to our advantage to tear down on it,
Speaker 3: to an environment where it is in everything and it
Speaker 3: is subverting our appetite control system. It is addictive, and
Speaker 3: it gets in and turns to fat and then also
Speaker 3: destroys our ability to control how much of everything else
Speaker 3: we eat as well. So the net result of this
Speaker 3: is you put this stuff in the food supply of
Speaker 3: any animal in any lab or any human in society,
Speaker 3: and they get fat. It's not magic, not woo woo.
Speaker 3: It's just plain biochemical fact.
Speaker 1: So are you are you anti fruit advocate, low fruit advocate?
Speaker 3: What do you? Well, you've got to think about your
Speaker 3: evolved environment. When do we have fruit? Fruit was nature's dessert.
Speaker 3: It was rare, and we had it whenever we could
Speaker 3: get it, but that wasn't frequent. So my attitude to
Speaker 3: fruit is fruit should not be a primary part of
Speaker 3: your diet. But if you get access to it every
Speaker 3: now and then and treat yourself, why not treat it
Speaker 3: like what it is, nature's dessert. And by the way,
Speaker 3: when you stop eating sugar or fruit starts tasting very
Speaker 3: very sweet. And so when I say to you, treat
Speaker 3: it like nature's dessert, it'll feel like nature's dessert because
Speaker 3: it'll be just about the only intensely sweet thing you eat.
Speaker 1: Is there such a thing as a sugar addiction or
Speaker 1: is that just a term? I know you're very dantic
Speaker 1: about addictions.
Speaker 3: Very pantic about addiction. It's a very real thing. So
Speaker 3: we know that fractose spikes cortisol, which spikes don't mean
Speaker 3: which is the pathway you need for addiction. So it
Speaker 3: is a real chemical addiction. We have the word chocoholic
Speaker 3: in our language because chocolate is addictive. I don't know
Speaker 3: if you've eaten cocoa powder without sugar added to it,
Speaker 3: but it tastes roughly like dirt, So no one's getting
Speaker 3: addicted to that in a hurry. Put a ton of
Speaker 3: sugar in it, you've got a different proposition altogether. Yes,
Speaker 3: we're addicted to sugar. You can tell if you're addicted
Speaker 3: to sugar, like a lot of people say to me, ah,
Speaker 3: I'm not addicted to sugar. That's a lot of rubbish.
Speaker 3: But the test for that is, well, then don't consume
Speaker 3: it and see what happens. Like, just don't consume stop
Speaker 3: for eating sugar and see what happens. And everybody who
Speaker 3: does that tells describes exactly the withdrawal pathway of anyone
Speaker 3: dropping any other addictive substance, which is that they go
Speaker 3: through a couple of weeks intense cravings and then they
Speaker 3: can walk away from it.
Speaker 1: And some of my friends have had headaches, like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there are headaches associated with yeah yeah, yeah generally yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and crankiness and tiredness and headaches. And I'm like, wow,
Speaker 1: you sound like you're coming off bloody heroin or something.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's not as bad as heroin, but it
Speaker 3: is breaking an addiction, just like any other addiction. It's interesting.
Speaker 3: When I first put Sweet Poison out, I was contacted
Speaker 3: by a bloke who ran one of the first sort
Speaker 3: of alcohol addiction centers in the Northern Territory, and he
Speaker 3: said that he found like he read Sweet Poison, and
Speaker 3: he got in touch with me. He said one of
Speaker 3: the things he found in running that center was that
Speaker 3: if you were going to try and break someone of
Speaker 3: alcohol addiction, the first thing you had to do was
Speaker 3: break them with the sugar addiction or you had no chance.
Speaker 3: So he would make them break sugar addiction for the
Speaker 3: first two weeks, then he would start on alcohol, and
Speaker 3: he said he was much more successful with that than
Speaker 3: if you just let them maintain the sugar addiction.
Speaker 1: It's so interesting. Tip do you reckon you're a sugar addict? Okay, okay?
Speaker 1: Do you want any help with that? Or is you're
Speaker 1: just a happy sugar addict. A happy sugar addict.
Speaker 2: And I don't lie about how much sugar I eat, David,
Speaker 2: I'd tell all of the truth. I eat all of
Speaker 2: the sugar.
Speaker 1: But you do think because you have you ever Sorry, David,
Speaker 1: you have a real healthy diet. I do I do
Speaker 1: other than chocolate.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeap, which is still an addiction. But the rest
Speaker 2: of my diet is great. There's no silly sugars hiding in,
Speaker 2: you know, pretend not sweet food.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you're not having ninety nine percent fat free
Speaker 3: mayonnaise which is twenty percent sugar, or no, you're not
Speaker 3: having a barbecue sauce which is fifty two percent sugar.
Speaker 2: Definitely not.
Speaker 3: But the other thing to bear in mind too, and
Speaker 3: this is worth knowing if you've got a high energy lifestyle,
Speaker 3: So if you're doing something that requires significant amounts of energy,
Speaker 3: So if you're if you're burning you know, three three
Speaker 3: and a half thousand calories a day because we're either
Speaker 3: you know, doing intense labor, or you're working out a lot,
Speaker 3: or you know, doing marathon sports, et cetera like that
Speaker 3: that people who are in that situation never get to
Speaker 3: a point where fractose accumulates to fat in the liver.
Speaker 3: Because the fractose actually helps them because it's metabolized instantly
Speaker 3: without any control. It's actually a very very fast way
Speaker 3: of delivering energy to the body. Now, this is a
Speaker 3: good thing if you are a marathon athlete. So a
Speaker 3: lot of them take you know, fractose gels and so on,
Speaker 3: and there's good science as to why that's a not
Speaker 3: bad for them and be actually a good source of
Speaker 3: energy for them. But it turns into a problem if
Speaker 3: you're not running marathons every day, So if you're not
Speaker 3: massively consuming calories and needing that extracts boost, then it's
Speaker 3: turning to fat in your body. So for ninety nine
Speaker 3: percent of the population it's a bad thing. But for
Speaker 3: people who are you know, ultra athletes who are pushing
Speaker 3: their bodies to the extreme, it's actually a good thing.
Speaker 1: That's why we see Tour de France riders, I mean,
Speaker 1: apart from their gels, they often have a banana, yeah
Speaker 1: or two, and we see a lot of yeah, like
Speaker 1: you said, endurance athletes runners writers Michael Phelps allegedly used
Speaker 1: to when he was in full training and winning whatever
Speaker 1: he won seventeen gold medals or something. Over his career
Speaker 1: averaged ten thousand calories a day. Well.
Speaker 3: And the problem for those athletes is that's great when
Speaker 3: they're doing it. It's when they stop doing it and
Speaker 3: then don't drop those habits so frequently. I mean, there's
Speaker 3: two more stories than you could poke a stick out
Speaker 3: of high performance athletes who put on huge amounts of
Speaker 3: weight once they were hire. And that's because they've spent
Speaker 3: their whole lives being able to consume anything they like
Speaker 3: and have zero IILL effects, and then suddenly they haven't.
Speaker 3: They don't know how to eat to avoid that.
Speaker 1: And neither of you two think of a very well
Speaker 1: he's not well. He was a very well known athlete
Speaker 1: to me and my homies. He retired from a particular sport,
Speaker 1: professional sport. He blew out to him obviously self described fatty.
Speaker 1: Got hit. Don't get mad at me. That's what he's
Speaker 1: called himself. He got huge, he put on about forty kilos,
Speaker 1: retired from the sport. In fact, I can think of
Speaker 1: two ones. An Olympic swimmer, but this guy retired from
Speaker 1: the sport, then hated his life, felt like shit, started training,
Speaker 1: lost all the weight and came back and became world champion.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so his name is Mark Okalupo. Yeah, yeah, world
Speaker 1: chi champion. And also I think Jeff Fhugel the swimmer,
Speaker 1: put on.
Speaker 3: About a swimmer that was all he was thinking of.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he put on about forty k's as well.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think you're right David. Like it's that
Speaker 1: there is a big I mean, and not just with
Speaker 1: sugar and food, but psychological emotional adjustment for athletes when
Speaker 1: they have to live in this this operating, very specific
Speaker 1: operating system, high intensity. It's all about sleep and energy
Speaker 1: and recovery and intake and micros and macros and training
Speaker 1: cycles and periodization. And now you don't do that anymore.
Speaker 1: But you've been eating a certain way for fifteen or
Speaker 1: twenty years, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And you've also been able to obtain a benefit from, say,
Speaker 3: sucking down a front coast shell, and it's been an
Speaker 3: important part of your regime. And unless you're really clued
Speaker 3: into the biochemistry, you wouldn't understand that that's much much
Speaker 3: more than the galleries it says on the packet. You know,
Speaker 3: if you just take a lightweight view of nutrition and
Speaker 3: just look at calories rather than what they are. Then
Speaker 3: that can be really dangerous because fractose calories are not
Speaker 3: the same as glucose calories, just the same as alcohol
Speaker 3: calories are not the same as glucose calories. If you
Speaker 3: just go by the calories, you're being seriously misled about
Speaker 3: what your bo he's doing with the substance.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, not all calories are equal. Speaking of athletes,
Speaker 1: to f you're the athlete on the show, when you fight,
Speaker 1: you do you have to suck down to a weight
Speaker 1: or have you had to?
Speaker 2: I generally didn't have to worry about that a lot.
Speaker 2: I sat at Wayne my last fight. I was close,
Speaker 2: very close to the weight, so I had to make
Speaker 2: sure I came in under to Wayne. But I never
Speaker 2: had to drop I never really had to drop weight
Speaker 2: to fight.
Speaker 1: I saw a photo of you the other day, or
Speaker 1: two side by side photos, because we know how shy
Speaker 1: you are about putting out pictures of yourself. But if
Speaker 1: I was jacked, i'd probably do the same. But they
Speaker 1: were side by side photos, and I can't remember, but
Speaker 1: one was like maybe fifty four or five kilos and
Speaker 1: one was sixty two or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there was eight kilos different fifty fifty six,
Speaker 2: fifty four or fifty six.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was like a lot of weight difference a
Speaker 1: on a relatively small body, but you were pretty much
Speaker 1: just as lean in both of them. Like one of
Speaker 1: them you looked like, with respect the hulk compared to
Speaker 1: the Compared to the other one, you looked almost like
Speaker 1: a bodybuilder, and then the other one you look like
Speaker 1: an endurance athlete. Did that? Did that shock you when
Speaker 1: you saw those side by side photos?
Speaker 2: It did?
Speaker 3: It did?
Speaker 2: That's what spurred me to put it up because I
Speaker 2: remember doing it years ago when I was not ripped,
Speaker 2: when I'd had time off, and I was just and
Speaker 2: I might have put a couple of kilos on, but
Speaker 2: I was similar and or actually I think I didn't
Speaker 2: put weight on. I just changed body compositions. That was
Speaker 2: exactly We're the same weight, but one was ripped and
Speaker 2: lean and one was just normal. And I just think
Speaker 2: it's fascinating because everyone's obsessed with the scales.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean that's that's a problem in itself,
Speaker 1: isn't it, Especially when you know, like I can get
Speaker 1: on the scales in the morning at eighty four, drink
Speaker 1: a liter of water, and literally thirty seconds later on eighty.
Speaker 3: Five, well what is a leader of water way?
Speaker 1: Exactly? That's what I'm saying. Well, that was my point, David.
Speaker 1: It's like, oh.
Speaker 3: Good, I'm glad, yeah, glad, I'm keeping up with you now.
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what. You're the tipsy athlete, You're the journeus.
Speaker 1: Fucking keep up, will you. I was going to say
Speaker 1: to you, I was reading somewhere with your book that
Speaker 1: they were promoting it. David Gillespie lost six Stone. I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: this must be the British public version.
Speaker 3: I didn't know what that was either.
Speaker 1: I'm like six Stone, who wrote this?
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, so that it was released in Britain as well.
Speaker 3: So this book, which I thought wasn't controversial at all,
Speaker 3: you know, saying you know what, maybe it's not a
Speaker 3: good idea to eat sugar. And the only reason I'd
Speaker 3: written it is because I grew up in a time
Speaker 3: when you know, ninety nine percent fat free marshmallows were
Speaker 3: health food really, you know, because there was no fat
Speaker 3: in them, so they were good. And it had just
Speaker 3: become a revelation to me that maybe sugar wasn't a
Speaker 3: good idea. And then I saw the biochemistry that said
Speaker 3: it definitely wasn't a good idea, and so decided not
Speaker 3: to eat it, and you know, I lost forty kilos.
Speaker 3: But the thing about it was, I thought, well, this
Speaker 3: is a relatively uncontroversial, fairly obvious thing to say. And
Speaker 3: the book came out and the publisher pretty much agreed
Speaker 3: with me, and they thought, you know, this is going
Speaker 3: to be boring as and it's going to sell about
Speaker 3: three copies. And then everyone started jumping all over it
Speaker 3: and taking shots at me, you know, the like Heart
Speaker 3: Foundation and the Dietitians Association and of course any which
Speaker 3: made me suspect that perhaps so on the take from
Speaker 3: the sugar industry not how dare I suggest that?
Speaker 1: But it just.
Speaker 3: It astounded me, the controversy that it caused. And how
Speaker 3: dare you say that sugar makes people fat? And I thought, well,
Speaker 3: I thought that was obvious.
Speaker 1: And how dare you be scientific and analytical and research based?
Speaker 1: This is this is what I found before it's in
Speaker 1: front of me, it says. Sweet Poison, published in two
Speaker 1: thousand and eight, is widely credited with starting the current
Speaker 1: Australian wave of anti sugar sentiment. It's like how dare
Speaker 1: you start that waver sugar sentiment like you what are
Speaker 1: you doing?
Speaker 3: I mean profits left right?
Speaker 1: All right? Before we go just quickly Olympics thoughts, what's
Speaker 1: what's taken your.
Speaker 3: I thought that, well, I almost tried to find three
Speaker 3: seconds of preparation I do before it's talking to you, Craig.
Speaker 3: I tried to find an article that i'd briefly seen
Speaker 3: the other day about I think it was Dean Boxell
Speaker 3: saying that he wanted his swimmers off the social media
Speaker 3: during the Olympics, and I thought, you know, that makes
Speaker 3: sense because it isn't as obvious as it at first
Speaker 3: appears as to why that's a good idea. But I thought,
Speaker 3: maybe just explain a bit about why it's a good idea.
Speaker 3: The thing about social media, and this is I think
Speaker 3: I've told you before. I was brought down by one
Speaker 3: of the NRL clubs to talk to their players about
Speaker 3: this as well. The thing about playing players on social
Speaker 3: media is it's not just the distraction thing and that
Speaker 3: they're looking at their phones rather than getting on with
Speaker 3: their teammates and so on. There's actually some much more
Speaker 3: insidious things occurring there, which is social media rewards. People
Speaker 3: with cotocin hits for their own personal endeavors. So the
Speaker 3: rewards from social media are when you post something, you
Speaker 3: want to see the likes on whatever it is you've posted.
Speaker 3: You know, you want to see the views, You want
Speaker 3: to see the likes, you know, all that sort of thing.
Speaker 3: So if you're getting your oxytocin hits from that, and
Speaker 3: therefore your dopamine hits from that, what you're actually getting
Speaker 3: is your personal performance and your personal image is becomes
Speaker 3: the critical thing to you rather than the team and
Speaker 3: the team performance and your you know, all of that
Speaker 3: sort of thing, which which any athletic director wants. He
Speaker 3: wants the team working together, he wants everybody focused on
Speaker 3: everybody doing well, not individuals. The other aspect to it
Speaker 3: is that it seriously because, as we've talked about many
Speaker 3: many times before, getting all those dopamine hits, which is
Speaker 3: just the same as getting them from cocaine, it makes
Speaker 3: you anxious and makes you depressed and makes it hard
Speaker 3: for you to sleep, and those are all terrible things
Speaker 3: for an athlete, particularly the bit about not being able
Speaker 3: to sleep. So it takes the focus of the athlete
Speaker 3: away from the thing they're supposed to be focused on.
Speaker 3: It takes a mix master to their brain and it
Speaker 3: means they can't sleep. And so it's a very very
Speaker 3: good point being made by the coach there to say
Speaker 3: get off the social media the whole time. Now people
Speaker 3: are saying, oh, that's because he doesn't want to see
Speaker 3: people bagging out his athletes, et cetera. Well, I'm sure
Speaker 3: that's part of it, but there are some deep biochemical
Speaker 3: reasons why it's a very good idea as well.
Speaker 1: Yes, and also, like I think from I mean obviously
Speaker 1: what you said, but also from a psychological and emotional
Speaker 1: point of view, when somebody looks for a number and
Speaker 1: the number is lower, you know, they want ten x
Speaker 1: and they get it two x response, but they had
Speaker 1: a ten x hope or expectation, and now they're disappointed,
Speaker 1: and now they're you know, now they're sad, or now
Speaker 1: they're anxious, or now they think, fuck, I need to
Speaker 1: do a better post. I need to I'm guilty of that,
Speaker 1: not too much these days, but I remember putting up
Speaker 1: things and not getting the response I thought it would get,
Speaker 1: and I've taken it down and put up something else,
Speaker 1: you know, and then I know, little social media junkie mate.
Speaker 1: It's always good to chat to you. I know you're
Speaker 1: one of the rare guests that I don't have to say.
Speaker 1: How do people find you, follow you, connect with you
Speaker 1: because you're not interested in any of that, because you
Speaker 1: actually don't like people. Oh that's not fair.
Speaker 3: I love you, I love talking to you.
Speaker 1: All Right, we'll say goodbye, affair, but as always we
Speaker 1: appreciate you. Thanks mate, See you later.