1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:04,840 Speaker 1: I tell him, it's it's mayhem here before the before 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:07,600 Speaker 1: the go buttoners pressed, it's complete mayhem. But now we 3 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:11,039 Speaker 1: get ourselves back in order, we straighten up a little bit, 4 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: We sit straighter at our desk. Tivity and Cook is 5 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:18,919 Speaker 1: much to David Gillespie's sheer delight tivity. An Cook is 6 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 1: joining us live. It's not a post production editing scenario. 7 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: You're here in real time, real time. 8 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 2: And if I add the preamble to the show, I 9 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 2: won't have a job. So that's disappointing. 10 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 1: Well, if you, yeah, if any of us do, we 11 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:37,560 Speaker 1: won't have a job. Because we were sharing a few 12 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:39,559 Speaker 1: thoughts on a few things, it probably better that we 13 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 1: don't share on a potty. Maybe one day when it's 14 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: like there's only a week of the world left to live, 15 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:50,559 Speaker 1: maybe when you know we're spinning out of control as 16 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 1: a planet heading towards some kind of devastating destruction, we'll 17 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:56,279 Speaker 1: talk about it. But tonight is that it sounds like 18 00:00:56,320 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 1: the now has to me, Hi, David, are you good? 19 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 3: Good to be here? 20 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 4: I sent and I'm not going to say what it 21 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 4: is everyone, but I said, I said, I had an idea, 22 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:10,119 Speaker 4: and I sent it to David yesterday, maybe we'd talk 23 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:12,040 Speaker 4: about this, And then after I sent it, I went, no, 24 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:13,119 Speaker 4: we're not talking about that. 25 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 1: And then we just jumped on before and he goes, 26 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:17,319 Speaker 1: you know that thing you sent? No, I went yeah, 27 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:19,560 Speaker 1: he goes, we're not talking about that. I went correct. 28 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:23,199 Speaker 1: So I'll tell you what we are going to talk about, 29 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:25,639 Speaker 1: which you and I haven't spoken about for a long time. 30 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 1: Just because well just actually really because I had a conversation, 31 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 1: quite a long conversation this morning with somebody about this, 32 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 1: and that is I just wanted to revisit the sugar 33 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 1: conversation because I want to see. So you wrote Sweet 34 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 1: Poison in two thousand and eight. 35 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 3: Yep, so I wrote it in two thousand and seven, right, 36 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 3: My publishers finally got around of putting it out in 37 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 3: two that. 38 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 1: So the publisher fucked around for a year, and you 39 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 1: wrote it in two thousand and Evan, So that is 40 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 1: seventeen year geez, that's a long time ago. So seventeen 41 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 1: years ago you were speaking about the you know, the 42 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 1: low sugar, reduced sugar, fuck off sugar gospel. You were 43 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:18,519 Speaker 1: evangelizing the world. What's the how have we gone over 44 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: the last well since publication. How have we gone over 45 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 1: the last sixteen years? Are we eating less sugar? Is 46 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 1: it just been I just I just googled how many 47 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 1: different names for sugar are there and it came up 48 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:37,920 Speaker 1: sixty one sixty one different types of sugar. So is 49 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: there just as much sugar being consumed or have we 50 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:43,360 Speaker 1: improved in some way or don't you know? 51 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 3: The answer is we don't know for sure. And the 52 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 3: reason for that is quite interesting because the sugar lobby 53 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:56,800 Speaker 3: has worked very, very hard to make sure that accurate 54 00:02:56,800 --> 00:03:00,639 Speaker 3: statistics on sugar usage are not collected, both in the 55 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 3: United States and in Australia. So the ABS the RAM 56 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 3: Bureau Statistics discontinued its series on sugar consumption in nineteen 57 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 3: ninety eight after some intense lobbying, and so we don't 58 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:20,360 Speaker 3: really know how much sugar Australians are consuming. There have 59 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:25,519 Speaker 3: been some intermittent surveys, and surveys, as you might guess 60 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 3: in nutrition, mostly rubbish. And that's because, believe it or not, 61 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 3: people don't tell the truth about how much sugar they're consuming. 62 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 3: And even if they know how much sugar they're consuming, 63 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 3: they're still not going to tell the truth about it. 64 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 1: So yeah, well, that reminds me of trying to get 65 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 1: Australians sugar consumption statistics. I just brought that up trying 66 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 1: to I mean, I know this is obvious, we'll come 67 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: back to sugar in one second, but trying to find 68 00:03:54,760 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: statistics on how often people lieally, that's a thing. 69 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 3: Even the ABS acknowledges that in the stuff they do 70 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 3: publish and they say that look sugar. Well, not to sugar, 71 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 3: but any food intake survey data is very very unreliable, 72 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 3: and they've got all sorts of interesting statistics about how 73 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 3: very unreliable it is, so you really can't take them 74 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:22,159 Speaker 3: too seriously. You can do some back of the envelope 75 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 3: sort of stuff though, just by looking at total consumption 76 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 3: of goods sold that we're without explicitly looking at sugar, 77 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 3: not breaking it down to that, but sort of looking 78 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:37,840 Speaker 3: at things like categories like breakfast, cereals, soft drinks, things 79 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 3: like that, So you can do a little bit of 80 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 3: backward calculation on that sort of thing. And I think 81 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 3: a conservative measure of it is that the average Australian 82 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 3: is putting away about forty t spoons of sugar a day, 83 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:55,159 Speaker 3: which is a serious quantity of sugar. But and most 84 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 3: people would say, well, you know, maybe Harps is doing that, 85 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:02,719 Speaker 3: but I I'm not getting anywhere near forty tea spoons 86 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:05,600 Speaker 3: of sugar. That's if you think about adding forty teaspoons 87 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:07,719 Speaker 3: of sugar to your food, most peo would say, I 88 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 3: don't add any you know, I threw the sugar pot 89 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:13,280 Speaker 3: out years ago, And the reason for that is you 90 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 3: don't have to. I mean, you look at a breakfast cereal, 91 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 3: you know, like say Sultana brand or Neutral Grain or 92 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:23,040 Speaker 3: something like that. It's going to be a quarter to 93 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 3: a third sugar. So you have one hundred grams of it. 94 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:29,039 Speaker 3: There's you know, twenty five thirty grams of sugar straight away, 95 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 3: and you know, four grams per teaspoon. It's not hard 96 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:35,279 Speaker 3: to get to forty tea spoons. In fact, if you 97 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:37,040 Speaker 3: do the masks on it and say, okay, I'm going 98 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 3: to sit down to a heart foundation to prove breakfast 99 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 3: of Sultana brand and a glass of orange juice, and 100 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:46,160 Speaker 3: you're at about twenty teaspoons of sugar before you push 101 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:48,160 Speaker 3: back from that. So you don't have to go anywhere 102 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 3: near a mars bar or a coke. You're already at 103 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 3: half the average Australian consumption of sugar. And when you 104 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:58,720 Speaker 3: compare that to say, the early eighteen hundreds, before sugar 105 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 3: was able to be mass produced in commercial quantities, we 106 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 3: were consuming about two teaspoons per person per day and 107 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:11,839 Speaker 3: that mostly came from honey and fresh fruit. Now we 108 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:14,479 Speaker 3: haven't changed that much. We're still getting about two teaspoons 109 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:17,360 Speaker 3: per person per day from honey and fresh fruit, and 110 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 3: we just lay it on an extra thirty eight in 111 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:22,039 Speaker 3: sugar added into the food supply. 112 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 1: I remember a lady coming to see me years ago, David, 113 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: who told me she didn't have any sugar in her diet. 114 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:30,799 Speaker 1: And she literally thought that she didn't because she didn't 115 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 1: add sugar to anything. And then so I sat down 116 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 1: with her. I had a one and a half hour 117 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: console with her, and I said, you know what she 118 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,280 Speaker 1: ate in a typical day, you know, and what she drank, 119 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:46,719 Speaker 1: what she consumed in a typical day, And I can't 120 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 1: remember exactly, but yeah, it was somewhere around thirty tea spoons, 121 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 1: despite the fact that she had no sugar in inverted 122 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,840 Speaker 1: commas in her diet. And she was like she was 123 00:06:57,880 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 1: completely unaware, you know. 124 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 3: Well, most a lot of people are. I mean people 125 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:05,720 Speaker 3: will say to you, look, I understand that there's sugar 126 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 3: and coke, but you know I don't drink coke. You 127 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 3: so what do you drink? Oh, I have a nice coffee. 128 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 3: Well there's more sugar in a nice coffee than there 129 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 3: isn't a coke. Yes, you know, Australia's consumption of sugar 130 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 3: in liquid form is actually highest in dairy products, not 131 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 3: not in soft drinks. Soft drinks are actually in full sugar. 132 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 3: Soft drinks are in serious trouble. I mean there's a 133 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 3: massive decline. So you know, I'm going to take credit 134 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 3: for that. Since two thousand and seven, there's been a 135 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 3: massive decline in soft drink consumption, full sugar, soft drink. 136 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 3: And you can see that going to a supermarket. You're 137 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 3: not to a supermarket now, and the soft drink aisle 138 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 3: is still there, but there's an awful lot of sugar 139 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 3: free stuff there and very little of the full stuff. 140 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 1: Yeah. And I mean we've mentioned this once before at least, 141 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: but people might be blown away to know that something 142 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:59,559 Speaker 1: like barbecue sugar Peru barbecue sauce, I should say barbecue sugar. 143 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 1: That was faux pa wasn't it. Barbecue is the same thing. Well, 144 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: it's about fifty two grams per hundred grams. So for say, 145 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 1: you know, let's say you've got a two hundred mill cup, 146 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 1: so you've got two hundred grams of that source. Then 147 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 1: of that about well more than half of the cup 148 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: is sugar. So I mean things like that where people 149 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 1: think it's essentially even peanut butter, which you think, oh, 150 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: that's nuts and it's salty, but most peanut butters are 151 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:33,079 Speaker 1: somewhere between ten and twenty percent sugar because it's got 152 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 1: added sugar. Not all of them are course jams. You go, 153 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 1: oh yeah, but jams fruit, But it's still incredibly high. 154 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 1: And some of those I won't name names because I 155 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 1: don't want it. Well I should name names because they 156 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:47,560 Speaker 1: can't sue me because it's just fucking information. It's not 157 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 1: an opinion. But a lot of those smoothie bars and 158 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 1: those you know kind of juice kind of bar places 159 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 1: that sell you know, these mega energy drinks and stuff 160 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:02,319 Speaker 1: which you know them, have got heading towards one hundred 161 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 1: grams of sugar in one of their large servings, which 162 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 1: is twenty or twenty something teaspoons. 163 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 3: There's no functional difference between a glass of apple juice 164 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:15,959 Speaker 3: and a glass of coke. They both have about the 165 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:20,439 Speaker 3: same amount of sugar in them, so one has bubbles 166 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:23,560 Speaker 3: in it and the other doesn't. But that's about it. 167 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 3: So anyone who tells you that a juice of any 168 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 3: kind is any kind of health food is delusional if 169 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 3: they believe it. But you know, and the manufacturers have 170 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 3: been onto this for a long time. So you know, 171 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 3: yogurt produces, for example, you have to put sugar in 172 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 3: yogurt to make it palatable to someone who's used to 173 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 3: eating sugar. And pretty quickly people got onto the fact 174 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 3: that there was more sugar in the average yogurt than 175 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 3: in a bowl of ice cream, and so, but it 176 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 3: was being sold as health food. So the manufacturers started saying, ah, 177 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 3: we'll put a label on it that says no cane 178 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 3: sugar in this yogurt, and there isn't because they're using 179 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 3: concentrated fruit juice instead, which is still for it doesn't 180 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:14,559 Speaker 3: matter whether the sugar got squeezed out of a piece 181 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 3: of sugar cane or got squeezed out of an apple 182 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 3: or an orange. It's still sugar. 183 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 1: So whether or not we look like. I guess some 184 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 1: of the more common ones or forms, you know, fructose 185 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:30,200 Speaker 1: or fructose, glucose, lactose, soucrose, which is just sugar in it. 186 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: Do they all have a very similar consequence in the body. 187 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 3: No. No, And this is the interesting bit. The only 188 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:43,359 Speaker 3: one of the ones you mentioned that's a problem is fructose. 189 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to say that. 190 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:51,559 Speaker 3: So the rest of them metabolized to glucose. And when 191 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 3: a sugar is metabolized to glucose, that's not a problem 192 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:57,200 Speaker 3: for us because evolution has set us up to have 193 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 3: glucose as our primary source of energy. So we have 194 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:05,680 Speaker 3: enormously complex systems to manage our intake of glucose and 195 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 3: to manage our intake of anything that can be converted 196 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 3: to glucose because it's our primary energy source. So when 197 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:15,359 Speaker 3: we've had enough of that, we stop eating. Because fructose 198 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 3: is relatively really rare in our environment, we don't do that. 199 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 3: We have no biochemical breaks on fructose. It's something that 200 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:28,679 Speaker 3: is metabolized immediately to fat in our liver and stored immediately. 201 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 3: It was a bonus in evolutionary times coming across a 202 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 3: piece of ripe fruit that could deliver you a fructose 203 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 3: hit was a bonus. You didn't want your body shutting 204 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 3: down your ability to consume it because you were going 205 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:45,200 Speaker 3: to get one shot at this thing. You wanted our 206 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 3: eat as much of it as you possibly could, and 207 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 3: you wanted it stored as body fat as soon as possible. 208 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 3: So we have no evolutionary controls on fructose, but we 209 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:59,320 Speaker 3: have controls on every other sugar we consume. And that's 210 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 3: the trick. That's the problem with fructose. If we've gone 211 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 3: from an environment where it was really really rare and 212 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:07,560 Speaker 3: a real advantage to have no control over it, to 213 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 3: an environment where it's been added to every single part 214 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 3: of our food supply because it's addictive as well, and 215 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 3: food manufacturers know that food with sugar added sells a 216 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 3: lot better than food without sugar, so it's added into 217 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:24,720 Speaker 3: our entire food supply. So we've gone from an environment 218 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 3: where we almost never encountered it, and when we did, 219 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:31,960 Speaker 3: it was it to our advantage to tear down on it, 220 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:35,440 Speaker 3: to an environment where it is in everything and it 221 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 3: is subverting our appetite control system. It is addictive, and 222 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:42,840 Speaker 3: it gets in and turns to fat and then also 223 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 3: destroys our ability to control how much of everything else 224 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 3: we eat as well. So the net result of this 225 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 3: is you put this stuff in the food supply of 226 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 3: any animal in any lab or any human in society, 227 00:12:56,320 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 3: and they get fat. It's not magic, not woo woo. 228 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 3: It's just plain biochemical fact. 229 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:11,679 Speaker 1: So are you are you anti fruit advocate, low fruit advocate? 230 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 3: What do you? Well, you've got to think about your 231 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 3: evolved environment. When do we have fruit? Fruit was nature's dessert. 232 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 3: It was rare, and we had it whenever we could 233 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:28,319 Speaker 3: get it, but that wasn't frequent. So my attitude to 234 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 3: fruit is fruit should not be a primary part of 235 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 3: your diet. But if you get access to it every 236 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 3: now and then and treat yourself, why not treat it 237 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:40,680 Speaker 3: like what it is, nature's dessert. And by the way, 238 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:45,080 Speaker 3: when you stop eating sugar or fruit starts tasting very 239 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 3: very sweet. And so when I say to you, treat 240 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 3: it like nature's dessert, it'll feel like nature's dessert because 241 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 3: it'll be just about the only intensely sweet thing you eat. 242 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 1: Is there such a thing as a sugar addiction or 243 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:02,560 Speaker 1: is that just a term? I know you're very dantic 244 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 1: about addictions. 245 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:07,559 Speaker 3: Very pantic about addiction. It's a very real thing. So 246 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 3: we know that fractose spikes cortisol, which spikes don't mean 247 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:13,440 Speaker 3: which is the pathway you need for addiction. So it 248 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 3: is a real chemical addiction. We have the word chocoholic 249 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 3: in our language because chocolate is addictive. I don't know 250 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 3: if you've eaten cocoa powder without sugar added to it, 251 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 3: but it tastes roughly like dirt, So no one's getting 252 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 3: addicted to that in a hurry. Put a ton of 253 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 3: sugar in it, you've got a different proposition altogether. Yes, 254 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 3: we're addicted to sugar. You can tell if you're addicted 255 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 3: to sugar, like a lot of people say to me, ah, 256 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 3: I'm not addicted to sugar. That's a lot of rubbish. 257 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 3: But the test for that is, well, then don't consume 258 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 3: it and see what happens. Like, just don't consume stop 259 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 3: for eating sugar and see what happens. And everybody who 260 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 3: does that tells describes exactly the withdrawal pathway of anyone 261 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 3: dropping any other addictive substance, which is that they go 262 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 3: through a couple of weeks intense cravings and then they 263 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 3: can walk away from it. 264 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 1: And some of my friends have had headaches, like. 265 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, there are headaches associated with yeah yeah, yeah generally yeah. 266 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, and crankiness and tiredness and headaches. And I'm like, wow, 267 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 1: you sound like you're coming off bloody heroin or something. 268 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 3: I mean, it's not as bad as heroin, but it 269 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 3: is breaking an addiction, just like any other addiction. It's interesting. 270 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 3: When I first put Sweet Poison out, I was contacted 271 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 3: by a bloke who ran one of the first sort 272 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 3: of alcohol addiction centers in the Northern Territory, and he 273 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 3: said that he found like he read Sweet Poison, and 274 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 3: he got in touch with me. He said one of 275 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 3: the things he found in running that center was that 276 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 3: if you were going to try and break someone of 277 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 3: alcohol addiction, the first thing you had to do was 278 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:52,520 Speaker 3: break them with the sugar addiction or you had no chance. 279 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 3: So he would make them break sugar addiction for the 280 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 3: first two weeks, then he would start on alcohol, and 281 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 3: he said he was much more successful with that than 282 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 3: if you just let them maintain the sugar addiction. 283 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 1: It's so interesting. Tip do you reckon you're a sugar addict? Okay, okay? 284 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: Do you want any help with that? Or is you're 285 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 1: just a happy sugar addict. A happy sugar addict. 286 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 2: And I don't lie about how much sugar I eat, David, 287 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 2: I'd tell all of the truth. I eat all of 288 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 2: the sugar. 289 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: But you do think because you have you ever Sorry, David, 290 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: you have a real healthy diet. I do I do 291 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 1: other than chocolate. 292 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 2: Yes, yeap, which is still an addiction. But the rest 293 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 2: of my diet is great. There's no silly sugars hiding in, 294 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 2: you know, pretend not sweet food. 295 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, so you're not having ninety nine percent fat free 296 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 3: mayonnaise which is twenty percent sugar, or no, you're not 297 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 3: having a barbecue sauce which is fifty two percent sugar. 298 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 2: Definitely not. 299 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 3: But the other thing to bear in mind too, and 300 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 3: this is worth knowing if you've got a high energy lifestyle, 301 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 3: So if you're doing something that requires significant amounts of energy, 302 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:05,200 Speaker 3: So if you're if you're burning you know, three three 303 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,680 Speaker 3: and a half thousand calories a day because we're either 304 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 3: you know, doing intense labor, or you're working out a lot, 305 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:17,119 Speaker 3: or you know, doing marathon sports, et cetera like that 306 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:20,119 Speaker 3: that people who are in that situation never get to 307 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:23,360 Speaker 3: a point where fractose accumulates to fat in the liver. 308 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 3: Because the fractose actually helps them because it's metabolized instantly 309 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 3: without any control. It's actually a very very fast way 310 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:36,359 Speaker 3: of delivering energy to the body. Now, this is a 311 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:40,119 Speaker 3: good thing if you are a marathon athlete. So a 312 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 3: lot of them take you know, fractose gels and so on, 313 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:45,439 Speaker 3: and there's good science as to why that's a not 314 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 3: bad for them and be actually a good source of 315 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:51,400 Speaker 3: energy for them. But it turns into a problem if 316 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:55,159 Speaker 3: you're not running marathons every day, So if you're not 317 00:17:56,080 --> 00:18:02,200 Speaker 3: massively consuming calories and needing that extracts boost, then it's 318 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:04,679 Speaker 3: turning to fat in your body. So for ninety nine 319 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:08,040 Speaker 3: percent of the population it's a bad thing. But for 320 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 3: people who are you know, ultra athletes who are pushing 321 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 3: their bodies to the extreme, it's actually a good thing. 322 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 1: That's why we see Tour de France riders, I mean, 323 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:22,160 Speaker 1: apart from their gels, they often have a banana, yeah 324 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 1: or two, and we see a lot of yeah, like 325 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:30,920 Speaker 1: you said, endurance athletes runners writers Michael Phelps allegedly used 326 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:33,480 Speaker 1: to when he was in full training and winning whatever 327 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:36,359 Speaker 1: he won seventeen gold medals or something. Over his career 328 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 1: averaged ten thousand calories a day. Well. 329 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:45,120 Speaker 3: And the problem for those athletes is that's great when 330 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 3: they're doing it. It's when they stop doing it and 331 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:52,880 Speaker 3: then don't drop those habits so frequently. I mean, there's 332 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:54,360 Speaker 3: two more stories than you could poke a stick out 333 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 3: of high performance athletes who put on huge amounts of 334 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 3: weight once they were hire. And that's because they've spent 335 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:05,359 Speaker 3: their whole lives being able to consume anything they like 336 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 3: and have zero IILL effects, and then suddenly they haven't. 337 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 3: They don't know how to eat to avoid that. 338 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:19,920 Speaker 1: And neither of you two think of a very well 339 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:23,640 Speaker 1: he's not well. He was a very well known athlete 340 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 1: to me and my homies. He retired from a particular sport, 341 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: professional sport. He blew out to him obviously self described fatty. 342 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:36,200 Speaker 1: Got hit. Don't get mad at me. That's what he's 343 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 1: called himself. He got huge, he put on about forty kilos, 344 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,199 Speaker 1: retired from the sport. In fact, I can think of 345 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:46,880 Speaker 1: two ones. An Olympic swimmer, but this guy retired from 346 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 1: the sport, then hated his life, felt like shit, started training, 347 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 1: lost all the weight and came back and became world champion. 348 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:55,520 Speaker 3: Wow. 349 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, so his name is Mark Okalupo. Yeah, yeah, world 350 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:03,920 Speaker 1: chi champion. And also I think Jeff Fhugel the swimmer, 351 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 1: put on. 352 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:06,159 Speaker 3: About a swimmer that was all he was thinking of. 353 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:10,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he put on about forty k's as well. 354 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 1: But yeah, I think you're right David. Like it's that 355 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:15,479 Speaker 1: there is a big I mean, and not just with 356 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:20,160 Speaker 1: sugar and food, but psychological emotional adjustment for athletes when 357 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:24,359 Speaker 1: they have to live in this this operating, very specific 358 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:28,440 Speaker 1: operating system, high intensity. It's all about sleep and energy 359 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 1: and recovery and intake and micros and macros and training 360 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:36,120 Speaker 1: cycles and periodization. And now you don't do that anymore. 361 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:38,920 Speaker 1: But you've been eating a certain way for fifteen or 362 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:40,160 Speaker 1: twenty years, right. 363 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, And you've also been able to obtain a benefit from, say, 364 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:48,879 Speaker 3: sucking down a front coast shell, and it's been an 365 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 3: important part of your regime. And unless you're really clued 366 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 3: into the biochemistry, you wouldn't understand that that's much much 367 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:01,679 Speaker 3: more than the galleries it says on the packet. You know, 368 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:04,199 Speaker 3: if you just take a lightweight view of nutrition and 369 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:08,400 Speaker 3: just look at calories rather than what they are. Then 370 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 3: that can be really dangerous because fractose calories are not 371 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:16,400 Speaker 3: the same as glucose calories, just the same as alcohol 372 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 3: calories are not the same as glucose calories. If you 373 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 3: just go by the calories, you're being seriously misled about 374 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 3: what your bo he's doing with the substance. 375 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, not all calories are equal. Speaking of athletes, 376 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:33,679 Speaker 1: to f you're the athlete on the show, when you fight, 377 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 1: you do you have to suck down to a weight 378 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 1: or have you had to? 379 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:43,120 Speaker 2: I generally didn't have to worry about that a lot. 380 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 2: I sat at Wayne my last fight. I was close, 381 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 2: very close to the weight, so I had to make 382 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 2: sure I came in under to Wayne. But I never 383 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 2: had to drop I never really had to drop weight 384 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:53,120 Speaker 2: to fight. 385 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:55,199 Speaker 1: I saw a photo of you the other day, or 386 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,160 Speaker 1: two side by side photos, because we know how shy 387 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:00,640 Speaker 1: you are about putting out pictures of yourself. But if 388 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 1: I was jacked, i'd probably do the same. But they 389 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,399 Speaker 1: were side by side photos, and I can't remember, but 390 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,919 Speaker 1: one was like maybe fifty four or five kilos and 391 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:12,639 Speaker 1: one was sixty two or something. 392 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there was eight kilos different fifty fifty six, 393 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 2: fifty four or fifty six. 394 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, there was like a lot of weight difference a 395 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:25,720 Speaker 1: on a relatively small body, but you were pretty much 396 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,359 Speaker 1: just as lean in both of them. Like one of 397 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:31,480 Speaker 1: them you looked like, with respect the hulk compared to 398 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 1: the Compared to the other one, you looked almost like 399 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:37,399 Speaker 1: a bodybuilder, and then the other one you look like 400 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 1: an endurance athlete. Did that? Did that shock you when 401 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:42,880 Speaker 1: you saw those side by side photos? 402 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 2: It did? 403 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 3: It did? 404 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:46,679 Speaker 2: That's what spurred me to put it up because I 405 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:49,879 Speaker 2: remember doing it years ago when I was not ripped, 406 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 2: when I'd had time off, and I was just and 407 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 2: I might have put a couple of kilos on, but 408 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 2: I was similar and or actually I think I didn't 409 00:22:57,320 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 2: put weight on. I just changed body compositions. That was 410 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 2: exactly We're the same weight, but one was ripped and 411 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,640 Speaker 2: lean and one was just normal. And I just think 412 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,359 Speaker 2: it's fascinating because everyone's obsessed with the scales. 413 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:12,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean that's that's a problem in itself, 414 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,960 Speaker 1: isn't it, Especially when you know, like I can get 415 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 1: on the scales in the morning at eighty four, drink 416 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,119 Speaker 1: a liter of water, and literally thirty seconds later on eighty. 417 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 3: Five, well what is a leader of water way? 418 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: Exactly? That's what I'm saying. Well, that was my point, David. 419 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 1: It's like, oh. 420 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 3: Good, I'm glad, yeah, glad, I'm keeping up with you now. 421 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 1: I'll tell you what. You're the tipsy athlete, You're the journeus. 422 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:38,960 Speaker 1: Fucking keep up, will you. I was going to say 423 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 1: to you, I was reading somewhere with your book that 424 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:50,400 Speaker 1: they were promoting it. David Gillespie lost six Stone. I'm like, well, 425 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 1: this must be the British public version. 426 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:54,480 Speaker 3: I didn't know what that was either. 427 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 1: I'm like six Stone, who wrote this? 428 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, so that it was released in Britain as well. 429 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:06,240 Speaker 3: So this book, which I thought wasn't controversial at all, 430 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:09,359 Speaker 3: you know, saying you know what, maybe it's not a 431 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:12,680 Speaker 3: good idea to eat sugar. And the only reason I'd 432 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:14,400 Speaker 3: written it is because I grew up in a time 433 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 3: when you know, ninety nine percent fat free marshmallows were 434 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,200 Speaker 3: health food really, you know, because there was no fat 435 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:25,439 Speaker 3: in them, so they were good. And it had just 436 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:27,720 Speaker 3: become a revelation to me that maybe sugar wasn't a 437 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 3: good idea. And then I saw the biochemistry that said 438 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,679 Speaker 3: it definitely wasn't a good idea, and so decided not 439 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 3: to eat it, and you know, I lost forty kilos. 440 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:39,119 Speaker 3: But the thing about it was, I thought, well, this 441 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,840 Speaker 3: is a relatively uncontroversial, fairly obvious thing to say. And 442 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 3: the book came out and the publisher pretty much agreed 443 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 3: with me, and they thought, you know, this is going 444 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:48,680 Speaker 3: to be boring as and it's going to sell about 445 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 3: three copies. And then everyone started jumping all over it 446 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,200 Speaker 3: and taking shots at me, you know, the like Heart 447 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:01,200 Speaker 3: Foundation and the Dietitians Association and of course any which 448 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,560 Speaker 3: made me suspect that perhaps so on the take from 449 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:07,200 Speaker 3: the sugar industry not how dare I suggest that? 450 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 1: But it just. 451 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 3: It astounded me, the controversy that it caused. And how 452 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 3: dare you say that sugar makes people fat? And I thought, well, 453 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:19,440 Speaker 3: I thought that was obvious. 454 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:24,439 Speaker 1: And how dare you be scientific and analytical and research based? 455 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:26,679 Speaker 1: This is this is what I found before it's in 456 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:30,360 Speaker 1: front of me, it says. Sweet Poison, published in two 457 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 1: thousand and eight, is widely credited with starting the current 458 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:40,960 Speaker 1: Australian wave of anti sugar sentiment. It's like how dare 459 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 1: you start that waver sugar sentiment like you what are 460 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:46,919 Speaker 1: you doing? 461 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:48,879 Speaker 3: I mean profits left right? 462 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: All right? Before we go just quickly Olympics thoughts, what's 463 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 1: what's taken your. 464 00:25:56,000 --> 00:26:00,240 Speaker 3: I thought that, well, I almost tried to find three 465 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 3: seconds of preparation I do before it's talking to you, Craig. 466 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:08,399 Speaker 3: I tried to find an article that i'd briefly seen 467 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 3: the other day about I think it was Dean Boxell 468 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 3: saying that he wanted his swimmers off the social media 469 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 3: during the Olympics, and I thought, you know, that makes 470 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 3: sense because it isn't as obvious as it at first 471 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 3: appears as to why that's a good idea. But I thought, 472 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 3: maybe just explain a bit about why it's a good idea. 473 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 3: The thing about social media, and this is I think 474 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 3: I've told you before. I was brought down by one 475 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,080 Speaker 3: of the NRL clubs to talk to their players about 476 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:44,720 Speaker 3: this as well. The thing about playing players on social 477 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,639 Speaker 3: media is it's not just the distraction thing and that 478 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,919 Speaker 3: they're looking at their phones rather than getting on with 479 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:54,280 Speaker 3: their teammates and so on. There's actually some much more 480 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:59,639 Speaker 3: insidious things occurring there, which is social media rewards. People 481 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:05,199 Speaker 3: with cotocin hits for their own personal endeavors. So the 482 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:08,119 Speaker 3: rewards from social media are when you post something, you 483 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:10,959 Speaker 3: want to see the likes on whatever it is you've posted. 484 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:12,439 Speaker 3: You know, you want to see the views, You want 485 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:14,400 Speaker 3: to see the likes, you know, all that sort of thing. 486 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 3: So if you're getting your oxytocin hits from that, and 487 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:20,959 Speaker 3: therefore your dopamine hits from that, what you're actually getting 488 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:29,640 Speaker 3: is your personal performance and your personal image is becomes 489 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 3: the critical thing to you rather than the team and 490 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 3: the team performance and your you know, all of that 491 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:42,359 Speaker 3: sort of thing, which which any athletic director wants. He 492 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,399 Speaker 3: wants the team working together, he wants everybody focused on 493 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:50,440 Speaker 3: everybody doing well, not individuals. The other aspect to it 494 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 3: is that it seriously because, as we've talked about many 495 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,919 Speaker 3: many times before, getting all those dopamine hits, which is 496 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:02,240 Speaker 3: just the same as getting them from cocaine, it makes 497 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:06,400 Speaker 3: you anxious and makes you depressed and makes it hard 498 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 3: for you to sleep, and those are all terrible things 499 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 3: for an athlete, particularly the bit about not being able 500 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 3: to sleep. So it takes the focus of the athlete 501 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:19,639 Speaker 3: away from the thing they're supposed to be focused on. 502 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,399 Speaker 3: It takes a mix master to their brain and it 503 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:30,200 Speaker 3: means they can't sleep. And so it's a very very 504 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 3: good point being made by the coach there to say 505 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:37,440 Speaker 3: get off the social media the whole time. Now people 506 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 3: are saying, oh, that's because he doesn't want to see 507 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 3: people bagging out his athletes, et cetera. Well, I'm sure 508 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 3: that's part of it, but there are some deep biochemical 509 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:46,240 Speaker 3: reasons why it's a very good idea as well. 510 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 1: Yes, and also, like I think from I mean obviously 511 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,719 Speaker 1: what you said, but also from a psychological and emotional 512 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 1: point of view, when somebody looks for a number and 513 00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 1: the number is lower, you know, they want ten x 514 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 1: and they get it two x response, but they had 515 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 1: a ten x hope or expectation, and now they're disappointed, 516 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 1: and now they're you know, now they're sad, or now 517 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 1: they're anxious, or now they think, fuck, I need to 518 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 1: do a better post. I need to I'm guilty of that, 519 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 1: not too much these days, but I remember putting up 520 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 1: things and not getting the response I thought it would get, 521 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:23,960 Speaker 1: and I've taken it down and put up something else, 522 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 1: you know, and then I know, little social media junkie mate. 523 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 1: It's always good to chat to you. I know you're 524 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 1: one of the rare guests that I don't have to say. 525 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 1: How do people find you, follow you, connect with you 526 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 1: because you're not interested in any of that, because you 527 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,840 Speaker 1: actually don't like people. Oh that's not fair. 528 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,480 Speaker 3: I love you, I love talking to you. 529 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 1: All Right, we'll say goodbye, affair, but as always we 530 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:54,880 Speaker 1: appreciate you. Thanks mate, See you later.