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Speaker 1: Appoche production. Welcome to Secrets of the Underworld. I am

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Speaker 1: Neil the muscle comments and in this episode I speak

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Speaker 1: to ronnisher would about his journey from crime figure to

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Speaker 1: recovery coach of.

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Speaker 2: His mate said, what do you want to be in requirement?

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Speaker 2: I said, I want to be a lawyer. And he

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Speaker 2: started to laugh and he said, if you want to

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Speaker 2: find the coppers by a gun? The police card came

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Speaker 2: in excellence broadcast and big orange trains had been not

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Speaker 2: the fact you just jumped the seat, and I started

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Speaker 2: that I had no respect for human life. I had

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Speaker 2: no respect for my own life. If I had been

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Speaker 2: out of self toothpicks and make the same profit or

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Speaker 2: tohold toothpicks. And he said, what are we going to

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Speaker 2: do with you? Right? My mother? I said, put a

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Speaker 2: gun and we had and blow my fucking head off. Ron.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for coming on. This has been a few

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Speaker 1: months in the making. Me and YouTube non stop talking

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Speaker 1: backwards and forwards. Before we get into the nitty gritty er,

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Speaker 1: you know, tell me about you as a person growing

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Speaker 1: up and your family and then we'll get into you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, my family were all Qui criminals. My father,

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Speaker 2: my uncles were fighters boxes. Most of my family were fighters.

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Speaker 2: In the fifties. You made in money out of fighting,

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Speaker 2: breaking in horses, breaking into factories, and they did all that.

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Speaker 2: A very tough, tough family. No emotion. Never heard the

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Speaker 2: word I love you in my house ever, ever, ever, ever,

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Speaker 2: never heard that word I love you, isn't it? It

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Speaker 2: was not a word. My father was extremely violent and

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Speaker 2: yet the most loved guy in the world. Like everybody

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Speaker 2: outside the house, oh, your dad's you know, such a

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Speaker 2: lovely guy. And then my mother had ever broken ribs

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Speaker 2: and black eyes, and so he's a really violent Do.

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Speaker 1: You think they said that because they were scaredy of that?

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Speaker 2: Though some did but respected him, especially in the boxing game,

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Speaker 2: because he trained some good fighters, you know, he had

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Speaker 2: some austrange champions, and he could fight himself. And he

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Speaker 2: was also very unpredictable, and as we all know, the

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Speaker 2: unpredictable the ones are the ones that you don't know.

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Speaker 2: And I also, in retrospect, I don't think he really

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Speaker 2: had a lot of self worth. I think he felt

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Speaker 2: like he was a fraud because he was always trying

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Speaker 2: to prove I found through my own experience. I found

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Speaker 2: that when I was like that was because I had

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Speaker 2: low self worth, you know, but I was I ran

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Speaker 2: on fear, so I always wanted to prove that I

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Speaker 2: wasn't scared, you know. Like you know, I was always

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Speaker 2: the one who has the least to lose has the

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Speaker 2: most power. So if I don't care about me, there's

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Speaker 2: nothing you can do to hurt me. And so, you know,

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Speaker 2: my old man was, as I say, I've said this before,

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Speaker 2: I spent a lot of his in prison, which I'm

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Speaker 2: not proud of, and am I ashamed of it. Shame

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Speaker 2: is a pretty big word. Do I regret it? Yeah, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: of course I regret it. Shame is a word that

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Speaker 2: I think is wasted on things you can't change. You

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Speaker 2: can't change your past. You can learn from it, and

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Speaker 2: you can, hopefully, for me, teach others from your mistakes,

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Speaker 2: and hopefully they can have enough humility to grab hold

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Speaker 2: of that lesson. But from my experience, a lot of

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Speaker 2: young fellows can't learn by other mistakes. You know. We

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Speaker 2: have to be able, we have to be a fool

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Speaker 2: to become teachable, you know. And I believe my dad

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Speaker 2: was maybe dropped on his head when he was a kid.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, you know he was kicked in there

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Speaker 2: by a horse because he was a buck jump rider

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Speaker 2: and he was violently injured head injury. But his mum

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Speaker 2: was even violent. My father's mother was violent. She just

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Speaker 2: toold half a house and her handbag and go down

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Speaker 2: the pub, you know. And on I sat there on

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Speaker 2: the broads, she started hitting people with her hand but

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Speaker 2: half her house bricking it. Yeah. Yeah, Like it was

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Speaker 2: like we moved out of a country town because my

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Speaker 2: old man and his mum that would punched up all

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Speaker 2: the cops like that was normal coppers. From the time

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Speaker 2: I can remember the coppers with the enemy. You drive past,

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Speaker 2: you go look at them eff and dogs, you know,

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Speaker 2: spit out the window. And from the time I can remember,

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Speaker 2: from the time, what area did you grow up in?

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Speaker 2: I grew up in a place called Fitzroy in Melbourn,

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Speaker 2: which was slums when I was there, it was complete slums.

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Speaker 2: At four years of age, my first memory is the

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Speaker 2: copper is kicking bag in the front door in I

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Speaker 2: mean it's handcuff, blood over and they beat the shit

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Speaker 2: out of him and they searched the house, ripped the

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Speaker 2: house to pieces. And I was four years of age.

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Speaker 2: I was in bed with my mum, and when they

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Speaker 2: came in the bedroom, I sat up and I went

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Speaker 2: bang bang as a four year old kid. So that

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Speaker 2: was how entrenched the hatred was. And I had two

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Speaker 2: sisters at that time, older sisters. One was a half sister,

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Speaker 2: one was a full sister. Everybody was terrified. Everybody in

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Speaker 2: the whole house lived in fear. And I didn't even

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Speaker 2: really understand why. I didn't really understand you as a

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Speaker 2: small child, you don't understand why, I said, my father

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Speaker 2: beating up his brothers. Like my dad didn't drink alcohol either,

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Speaker 2: so there was no excuse that he was a drunk.

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Speaker 2: And he beat people up, mumy and just beat people up.

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Speaker 2: And when he beat them up, he wouldn't just knock

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Speaker 2: them out. He'd break their ribs. He'd slowly break them down,

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Speaker 2: you know, he punished them. He'd like to hurt you.

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Speaker 2: He didn't want to I just want to beat you up.

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Speaker 2: He just wanted to punish you and make an example

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Speaker 2: of your And by the time I was eleven, my

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Speaker 2: oldest sister had a child who she was at the time,

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Speaker 2: she was seventeen, and she'd had this child out of nowhere,

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Speaker 2: and I didn't quite understand it. But not long after that,

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Speaker 2: I started getting into a real lot of trouble, a

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Speaker 2: real a lot of trouble. I'd got arrested by the

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Speaker 2: police at twelve years of age for major breaking and

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Speaker 2: you know, kids broke into a car, I didn't. I

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Speaker 2: broke into a major shopping center those days, was Coal's. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: and we had a crew. I always had a crew

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Speaker 2: of kids, and we all broken and we style closed.

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Speaker 2: This first time we had new clothes. Yeah, so you know,

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Speaker 2: we ate all the food and all that. But what

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Speaker 2: the deal was with my family was if I broke

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Speaker 2: into a factory and it had a safe or a vault,

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Speaker 2: I come home and tell my dad him and his

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Speaker 2: mates had go and cut the vault of the safe,

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Speaker 2: and they'd reward me pats on the back ten shillings,

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Speaker 2: you know, which was a potent shilling note those days.

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Speaker 2: You know, you'll give me a quid, you know, good kid,

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Speaker 2: you know, And you go down the waterside workers paintings

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Speaker 2: and doctors where he was, to the union rooms and

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Speaker 2: all the kids, all the guys to be pat me

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Speaker 2: on the back. Eyes Ronnie's kiddy. He set up that

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Speaker 2: McDonald's joint for us. We don't want McDonald's was met

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Speaker 2: Robertson's chocolate chocolate factory or Calvin's chips because we were

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Speaker 2: up with slums, so it was all factories. So what

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Speaker 2: I'd do, I'd started off breaking into the factories. They're

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Speaker 2: stealing the lead off the roofs. We're going sell the

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Speaker 2: left of scrap. This is a eight nineteen years age.

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Speaker 2: Then I realized there was more money watching the demolishers

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Speaker 2: pulled the scrap off and put in the back of

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Speaker 2: their truck. Then they'd go to the path and they

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Speaker 2: would go pinch it off the back of the truck.

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Speaker 2: That way, we didn't have to do the hard work.

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Speaker 2: Now we just pinched off the truck. We'd put down

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Speaker 2: a billy cart and we'd rolled home. Then Miami has

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Speaker 2: made it take me down the scrap metal joint. We

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Speaker 2: get paid on the SAT Day. They pay the guys

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Speaker 2: their money. So it was always a little bit of

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Speaker 2: an entrepreneur when it came to that stuff. My father

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Speaker 2: didn't believe in education, which is really sad. Now I

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Speaker 2: love education. I love learning. I think the greatest gift

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Speaker 2: we have is human being, is to learn. You know,

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Speaker 2: that's why we misspased to be the superior animal, because

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Speaker 2: we have the intelligence to learn. And he didn't believe

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Speaker 2: in education.

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Speaker 1: He never went to school.

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Speaker 2: No, no, not really, not really. I said to my

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Speaker 2: dad when I was about twelve, and probably got the

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Speaker 2: rest of the first time. One of his mate said,

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Speaker 2: what do you want to do and you grow up?

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Speaker 2: And I said, I want to be a lawyer. And

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Speaker 2: he started laughing. He said, if you want to fight

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Speaker 2: the coppers, buy a gun the fucking lawyer. You know

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Speaker 2: how much money I give them, can't you know? And

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Speaker 2: I said, that's why I want to be a lawyer.

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Speaker 2: I say, how much money you just give them? All

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Speaker 2: wore the hats and the suits, and the tailor made clothes,

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Speaker 2: handmade I teen shoes. Even me as a kid at twelve, fourteen,

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Speaker 2: fifteen years of age, wore tailor made suits, handmade shoes.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah, full full. I'd go to the

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Speaker 2: races with him. He was a gambler, that was his addiction.

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Speaker 2: And if he was winning by about the third or

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Speaker 2: fourth phrase, he filled my pockets up with money and

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Speaker 2: he put me a taxi and semiam so he couldn't

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Speaker 2: punt the money any more. Money you know, because once

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Speaker 2: I got out of there, once I got the cabbage,

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Speaker 2: sent me home that game, and I'd give me a

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Speaker 2: mom of the money. She'd put the money away. And

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Speaker 2: the old man can only apart when he had left

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Speaker 2: on him. But one week we'd be eaten, you know,

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Speaker 2: good food. The next week we've eaten bread and ripping,

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Speaker 2: which is the fat that the lard off off the meat.

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Speaker 2: Because he was a putter. And then by the time

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Speaker 2: I got to about fourteen and fifteen, I was very

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Speaker 2: obsessed with rifles guns, and i'd become adopted by send

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Speaker 2: me adopted by a guy who owned a gun shop

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Speaker 2: called Melbourne Firearms. His name was George Joseph and later

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Speaker 2: on in life he would get arrested for the Donald McKay,

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Speaker 2: the politician was a politician who got killed and disappeared

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Speaker 2: over the marijuana growing down at Griffith. And it goes

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Speaker 2: right back to this whole mafia of Australia. And George

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Speaker 2: was like he took me on like a steps done

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Speaker 2: and taught me how to shoot, taught me how to

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Speaker 2: pull weapons down and all that stuff. So I became

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Speaker 2: a little bit of an asset in my father's friends

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Speaker 2: because I could change barrels, I could change firing pins,

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Speaker 2: and I could make what was that rifle into a

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Speaker 2: different rifle, and I could load bullets, and I could

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Speaker 2: do all that sort of stuff. And this is at

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Speaker 2: fourteen years of age. I could do that. And by

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Speaker 2: the time I was sixteen, I was arrested with having

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Speaker 2: a shoot over the police. To shoot over the coppers.

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Speaker 2: So myself and three other guys we've done a break

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Speaker 2: and enter. We used to do break and edit into

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Speaker 2: what you'd call like a Harvey Norman store today, but

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Speaker 2: it was a different store those days. We broke into

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Speaker 2: the warehouse next door, cut a hole in the roof,

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Speaker 2: in the wall. You know, the hard work. People think

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Speaker 2: it's being a thief so easy at not it's hard work.

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Speaker 2: You know the other days when you did break it

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Speaker 2: down to you you got in, you had a port

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Speaker 2: of power, you jack the bricks over, you know, you

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Speaker 2: cut the bricks out and you've got so many bricks out.

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Speaker 2: Then you jack the bricks out to you got a

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Speaker 2: whole big enough so you could fit the TV. So

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Speaker 2: and you've got to remember the TV from jo Normous

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Speaker 2: TV's and rental players weren't like they are today. So anyway,

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Speaker 2: the cops came and we end up having someone had

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Speaker 2: a gun started to shooting the cops. Cop was shot

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Speaker 2: at us two of my motes. One got shot in

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Speaker 2: the mouth, one got shot with a shotgun, and I

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Speaker 2: got all the oversprave of the shot on my back.

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Speaker 2: So I was seventeen years of age sitting Pendridge as

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Speaker 2: a seven year old kid, horrified, even though you don't

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Speaker 2: show that, but you're horrified, you know. And I thought

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Speaker 2: my mate was dead. The one that got shot in

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Speaker 2: the mouth, I thought was dead. The other guy that

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Speaker 2: got shot with the shotgun, he was okay. And there

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Speaker 2: was another guy that was with us. He decided that

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Speaker 2: he'd tell the police about two other guys that I shot.

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Speaker 2: Six months before, we'd had an altercation at my father's

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Speaker 2: gambling casino and he had a game of It was

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Speaker 2: going to sound horrible to listeners, it was true. He

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Speaker 2: had a game of pool for a dollar. The guy

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Speaker 2: said double nothing. He won. The guy said double on nothing,

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Speaker 2: he won, and the guy said, piss off, idiot. And

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Speaker 2: he came back to the mental said did you go

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Speaker 2: see I won three games? But he should where's the money?

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Speaker 2: We're going to put on the pennies on the type

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Speaker 2: game you see time in a piss off. I said, no, no,

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Speaker 2: piss off and get the f and money. Long story short,

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Speaker 2: they got downstairs, they have a fight and the guy

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Speaker 2: and I hit the guy in the gun and said

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Speaker 2: you don't get away, and he said, I know you're

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Speaker 2: never going to come out and kill you and your family.

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Speaker 2: That guy and his mate got shot that night walking

242
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Speaker 2: down the street. So I got arrested for that too.

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Speaker 2: So I'm sitting at Pendridge at seventeen years and three months.

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Speaker 2: I'll charged with five attempted murders, use a fire for

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Speaker 2: prevent love mansion, the break enders, and steel as a

246
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Speaker 2: seventeen year old kid. And I'm sitting in jail thinking, wow,

247
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Speaker 2: this is this is it. I'm never going to get

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Speaker 2: out of jail home. I will never ever get out

249
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Speaker 2: of jail. And I was a pretty little boy, blonde hair,

250
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Speaker 2: blue eyes.

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Speaker 1: You know, st thinking what what did dad say when

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Speaker 1: you found out this?

253
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Speaker 2: Oh he was wrapped, because I'm going to say wrapped,

254
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Speaker 2: I'm his son. He's proud have a shoots the shooting

255
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Speaker 2: of the coppers, good on you sort of type of thing.

256
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Speaker 2: And and plus the word went into the prison. It's

257
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Speaker 2: his he sh woulds kid you look after him? And

258
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Speaker 2: you know, and old guy I sent a message and

259
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Speaker 2: sent a chocolate him, which was unheard of those days,

260
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Speaker 2: and sending me a stand which across from the kitchen,

261
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Speaker 2: which is unheard of. You know, all the all the

262
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Speaker 2: boards as in the boards going like who's this guy?

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Speaker 2: He's getting all these messages and food and everything sent

264
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Speaker 2: and the prison officers are coming across in here and

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Speaker 2: you're a stand which you know, like that's from Charlie

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Speaker 2: at C Division. I thank you, you know. So to me,

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Speaker 2: jar wasn't scary, Yeah, wouldn't it be? It was you

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Speaker 2: know people think Charles full of tigers and lions. It's not.

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Speaker 2: It's not. It's not for a lot of today it's

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Speaker 2: a lot worse because the drugs destroyed it. But and

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Speaker 2: so what happened for me, Neil was while I was

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Speaker 2: in jail, the government in there. You remember I'm seven

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Speaker 2: stone seven. I was a boxer. I was seven stone seven,

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Speaker 2: so that's not very big. I don't know that is

275
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Speaker 2: in kilos. It was tiny. And they put me on

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Speaker 2: a drug called li like actual, which is a psych

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Speaker 2: drug to control me that was the beginning of my addiction. Wow,

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Speaker 2: So I'd never never take took a drug of my loss.

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Speaker 2: The reason for that because they said I was violent.

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Speaker 2: And you know, don't get me wrong, if there's some

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Speaker 2: sort of pedophile in there was going to come and say, hey, son,

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Speaker 2: came Iria. You know, I'd probably hurt them. Yeah, you know,

283
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Speaker 2: and I think anyone in their right mind would hurt them.

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Speaker 2: And so they put me on like actual to control

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Speaker 2: me and to stop me from being a menace. So

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Speaker 2: I was pested. I was a Pesti'm seventy year old kid.

287
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Speaker 2: I'm trying to show the world that I'm a tough guy.

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Speaker 2: My father. How long?

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Speaker 1: How long into your in society did they do that

290
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Speaker 1: to you? So how long?

291
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Speaker 2: Within six months they had me on like actual. Within

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Speaker 2: six months they put me on lig actual and I

293
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Speaker 2: went through the system. I wasn't in there for I

294
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Speaker 2: got found not guilty. The attempt to murder the waterside workers,

295
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Speaker 2: painters and doctors had it was very similar to the

296
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Speaker 2: days of Sydney when there were certain people in the

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Speaker 2: Sydney that were highly connected that had magistrates under their wing.

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Speaker 2: So by the time I went to court, I got

299
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Speaker 2: found not guilty of this. They lost the evidence to

300
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Speaker 2: that the gods that pointed me out the line out

301
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Speaker 2: said no, that's not the guy, they said, And then

302
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Speaker 2: the prosecution is, why did you say that was the guy?

303
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Speaker 2: Because the policeman told he said it was that guy,

304
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Speaker 2: and the magistrate's look going to cross and go like

305
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Speaker 2: this is this is just a joke. And I just

306
00:15:39,161 --> 00:15:42,561
Speaker 2: missed the charges. But I still got thirty six months

307
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Speaker 2: to serve as a juvenile. But I got out of jail,

308
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Speaker 2: and what happened was I'd become a drug addict. I

309
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Speaker 2: didn't know that there's no as information about drug addiction.

310
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Speaker 2: So nineteen seventy four I started injecting heroin and the

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Speaker 2: whole world changed. The gangsters didn't want to know about

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Speaker 2: me because you're a junkie, your liability. We'd moved to Sydney.

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Speaker 2: Did you hide it first or did you not know

314
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Speaker 2: I hit it at first? It's quite sad in retrospect,

315
00:16:13,481 --> 00:16:15,441
Speaker 2: I got because you lose so much weight on heroin,

316
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Speaker 2: you know, and all of a sudden, you know, I

317
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Speaker 2: was just super fick because I was always super fit guy,

318
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Speaker 2: you know, and I love fighting. I like fighting. I

319
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Speaker 2: actually like boxing, I really enjoyed. To me, it's a sport,

320
00:16:25,681 --> 00:16:29,241
Speaker 2: it's a it's an art. And and I like getting

321
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Speaker 2: if you if you enjoy this because you're good at it.

322
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Speaker 2: Now it's a ship golf and loves playing golf, you

323
00:16:33,921 --> 00:16:36,681
Speaker 2: know what I mean. So I really enjoyed boxing, and

324
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Speaker 2: I enjoyed fighting, and I got really skinny. And I

325
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Speaker 2: remember the guys up here a bell Maine at the

326
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Speaker 2: water side, they put on a turn theysed to call

327
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Speaker 2: it a barrel where they put on a party and

328
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Speaker 2: they'd all donate money because I thought I had stomach

329
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Speaker 2: cancer because I lost so much weight, and they said,

330
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Speaker 2: what's wrong with Then I said, I've got stomach cancer.

331
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Speaker 2: So these guys went and put on this this doing

332
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Speaker 2: you know, got you know, maybe fifteen our of bucks.

333
00:17:01,161 --> 00:17:02,641
Speaker 2: There's a lot of money in the early seventies, and

334
00:17:03,441 --> 00:17:05,321
Speaker 2: give it to me to donate to me to help

335
00:17:05,401 --> 00:17:07,640
Speaker 2: me get me through and bat some more smack, you know.

336
00:17:08,321 --> 00:17:10,041
Speaker 2: So you know, it's quite sad. And then when they

337
00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:13,720
Speaker 2: found out I was just like basically I was banned

338
00:17:13,761 --> 00:17:17,241
Speaker 2: from the underworld, from the from the gangster side of

339
00:17:17,281 --> 00:17:21,160
Speaker 2: the underworld. But as we know, in the seventies, especially

340
00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:23,480
Speaker 2: in the late seventies, the drug the drug world had

341
00:17:23,521 --> 00:17:26,001
Speaker 2: taken over the underworld. And the guys that kicked me

342
00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:28,481
Speaker 2: out of the drug out of the underworld seen me

343
00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:32,321
Speaker 2: driving a new Dudet Felcon. You know, the good looking

344
00:17:32,441 --> 00:17:36,600
Speaker 2: girl the apartment in town. It's like, what's going on

345
00:17:36,681 --> 00:17:40,880
Speaker 2: with him? And it's like, I'm selling heroin. I was

346
00:17:40,921 --> 00:17:43,041
Speaker 2: a heroin addicts'. Of course what you do is you

347
00:17:44,001 --> 00:17:47,001
Speaker 2: you buy heroines, so you know, and in the seventies

348
00:17:47,041 --> 00:17:49,360
Speaker 2: you bought heroin for five hundred dollars a half an ounce,

349
00:17:50,801 --> 00:17:55,001
Speaker 2: and that's on that's in Australia. Overseas. I paid thripns

350
00:17:55,041 --> 00:17:56,881
Speaker 2: for it, you know, you paid pennies for it over there.

351
00:17:57,521 --> 00:17:59,641
Speaker 2: And it all came all all the heroines came out

352
00:17:59,681 --> 00:18:02,080
Speaker 2: of Asia. It didn't come out of anywhere else. Those

353
00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:04,400
Speaker 2: days came out of Malaysia. And you come out of

354
00:18:04,761 --> 00:18:08,321
Speaker 2: plays that you know, it was the only brown rocket

355
00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:10,640
Speaker 2: wasn't white, and it was just a different world. But

356
00:18:10,801 --> 00:18:13,360
Speaker 2: you'd come to someone's house and there'd be some brown

357
00:18:13,481 --> 00:18:15,321
Speaker 2: rocks sitting there, and there'd be some white powder sitting there. There,

358
00:18:15,441 --> 00:18:17,881
Speaker 2: some hatshit on the table. No one was robbing each other,

359
00:18:18,001 --> 00:18:19,880
Speaker 2: and it was a different you know, you turn up,

360
00:18:19,921 --> 00:18:21,641
Speaker 2: you put some hass on the table and some Buddhist

361
00:18:21,681 --> 00:18:23,840
Speaker 2: nicks and you make a few joints. You'd listen to

362
00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:26,120
Speaker 2: a bit of music and it was quite a The

363
00:18:26,241 --> 00:18:29,041
Speaker 2: rolling stage was singing about brown sugar, Area Clapton singing

364
00:18:29,041 --> 00:18:32,480
Speaker 2: about cocaine. You know, everyone's blue reads, singing about heroin.

365
00:18:32,521 --> 00:18:34,761
Speaker 2: You're put spiking to my vein. Things aren't quite the

366
00:18:34,801 --> 00:18:38,521
Speaker 2: same it was. It was normal, was trendy. There's no

367
00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:41,080
Speaker 2: more drugs squad. There's noses and drugs buy those days,

368
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,561
Speaker 2: that's were called customers agents. They hear from Pimont. They'd

369
00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:46,240
Speaker 2: come and raid your house and half the time they

370
00:18:46,241 --> 00:18:49,240
Speaker 2: wouldn't even pincher. They throw the dope down the toilet

371
00:18:49,241 --> 00:18:52,721
Speaker 2: and to piss off, you know, because it wasn't nasty.

372
00:18:52,761 --> 00:18:55,521
Speaker 2: It wasn't It wasn't the way it became, you know.

373
00:18:55,721 --> 00:18:58,640
Speaker 2: But I went in and out of prison all just

374
00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:02,041
Speaker 2: I was never pinched for dope. They loaded me up once.

375
00:19:02,120 --> 00:19:06,041
Speaker 2: The cops loaded me up in the seventies and this

376
00:19:06,241 --> 00:19:09,561
Speaker 2: is where I found out Melbourne was different from Sydney.

377
00:19:10,321 --> 00:19:13,920
Speaker 2: All the coppers up here are on the take, in Melbourne.

378
00:19:13,921 --> 00:19:16,200
Speaker 2: They weren't like that. The copp has just got your

379
00:19:16,241 --> 00:19:19,401
Speaker 2: in Bassa. They'd have to bash you in your confession.

380
00:19:19,761 --> 00:19:22,920
Speaker 2: If you didn't confess, your record of interview wasn't allowed

381
00:19:22,961 --> 00:19:26,440
Speaker 2: in court. So there's no such thing as verbal So

382
00:19:26,561 --> 00:19:29,281
Speaker 2: if you just stack staunch half the time, you'd never

383
00:19:29,321 --> 00:19:32,480
Speaker 2: get found guilty down there because there was no verbal

384
00:19:33,360 --> 00:19:35,600
Speaker 2: And so I got arrested up here and the cops

385
00:19:35,721 --> 00:19:38,561
Speaker 2: verbaled me, and then the lawyers came to me and said, oh,

386
00:19:39,801 --> 00:19:42,241
Speaker 2: you know, just plead guilty and we'll get you a fine.

387
00:19:42,441 --> 00:19:44,321
Speaker 2: You know, it wasn't the only drugonvictionion I ever had.

388
00:19:44,761 --> 00:19:46,561
Speaker 2: And then they said you got to give the coppers

389
00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:49,321
Speaker 2: five hundred and I was like, oh, you know, so

390
00:19:49,441 --> 00:19:51,360
Speaker 2: I gave them five hundred. Well, the next week the

391
00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:53,041
Speaker 2: copers were back on the door in a different squad.

392
00:19:53,801 --> 00:19:56,680
Speaker 2: We want money. And that's when I realized that you

393
00:19:56,801 --> 00:19:59,600
Speaker 2: can't pay them. You can't pay them because once you

394
00:19:59,721 --> 00:20:03,880
Speaker 2: pay them, they own you. And I just really lost

395
00:20:04,241 --> 00:20:08,721
Speaker 2: myself in drug addiction, into the drug world, into King's

396
00:20:08,761 --> 00:20:11,680
Speaker 2: Cross because they ended up up the Cross and did

397
00:20:11,721 --> 00:20:12,041
Speaker 2: you sell it?

398
00:20:12,120 --> 00:20:14,201
Speaker 1: Were you selling more or were you taking more?

399
00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:16,840
Speaker 2: I was taking more. I was always my own best customer. Yeah,

400
00:20:16,961 --> 00:20:18,481
Speaker 2: I was always my own best customer.

401
00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:20,481
Speaker 1: Like how much were we talking here? How much of

402
00:20:20,481 --> 00:20:21,521
Speaker 1: an addiction was?

403
00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,761
Speaker 2: Well, you're talking about pure her and now not street.

404
00:20:25,721 --> 00:20:27,721
Speaker 2: I'd opened a ten grand bag, the stuff that we'd

405
00:20:27,761 --> 00:20:30,801
Speaker 2: get out of Panang becoming ten grand bags they weren't.

406
00:20:31,281 --> 00:20:33,080
Speaker 2: And there's like a big sausage. It's made like a

407
00:20:33,120 --> 00:20:36,360
Speaker 2: big sausage, ten grams. And I'd opened a ten grand

408
00:20:36,521 --> 00:20:39,321
Speaker 2: bag and thirty hours later, so it's one and a

409
00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:43,760
Speaker 2: half days, was gone pure. And I used to think

410
00:20:44,041 --> 00:20:45,920
Speaker 2: the dope's gone off. Something wrong with the dope. And

411
00:20:45,961 --> 00:20:47,680
Speaker 2: the guy got out of jail. He come to visit me,

412
00:20:48,281 --> 00:20:50,520
Speaker 2: and he's dead now, the good guy, and he had

413
00:20:50,561 --> 00:20:51,880
Speaker 2: a mate with him. He said, can you give I

414
00:20:52,041 --> 00:20:53,321
Speaker 2: made a shot? You know, he just got out of

415
00:20:53,321 --> 00:20:55,920
Speaker 2: the nick And you know I'm not I'm not a

416
00:20:56,001 --> 00:20:59,521
Speaker 2: really friendly person. Fuck you know. Anyway, there's a little

417
00:20:59,561 --> 00:21:01,680
Speaker 2: bit of brown staying on the spoon. I squared a

418
00:21:01,721 --> 00:21:05,321
Speaker 2: bit back in there, misseduff for him and he odeed foot.

419
00:21:06,201 --> 00:21:07,721
Speaker 2: It must be a week, you know, it must be

420
00:21:07,801 --> 00:21:10,041
Speaker 2: really weak person can do on that little bit. But

421
00:21:10,201 --> 00:21:13,561
Speaker 2: my times have become so high because I was using

422
00:21:13,681 --> 00:21:15,761
Speaker 2: so much dopa. You know, even though I didn't even

423
00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:19,561
Speaker 2: realize it, I become heroin. You've built a very big

424
00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,400
Speaker 2: tolance very quickly. That's why it's such a horrible drug.

425
00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:24,481
Speaker 2: Not as bad as ice, but you know, such a

426
00:21:24,561 --> 00:21:27,640
Speaker 2: horrible drug. Heroin is a physical drug. You know, you

427
00:21:27,721 --> 00:21:30,281
Speaker 2: get stoned, you fall asleep, You set fire to your pillow,

428
00:21:30,360 --> 00:21:33,200
Speaker 2: you set feel like by to your mattress. Where the

429
00:21:33,281 --> 00:21:35,321
Speaker 2: new drugs these days, they set fire to your brain.

430
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:38,440
Speaker 2: They cooked their brain. Humans. I'm fried. You know you

431
00:21:38,561 --> 00:21:41,200
Speaker 2: never heard that term in the open days. We just

432
00:21:41,281 --> 00:21:43,720
Speaker 2: all fell asleep, just fell asleep, you know we did.

433
00:21:43,801 --> 00:21:46,801
Speaker 2: We just fell asleep, mate, you know, I fell asleep.

434
00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:50,600
Speaker 2: And then in nine eighty one, I was I just

435
00:21:50,721 --> 00:21:53,121
Speaker 2: got out of jail, and I've met a good guy

436
00:21:53,201 --> 00:21:57,201
Speaker 2: in there. His name was Warrelin Frenchy Roger Rogerson killed him. Well,

437
00:21:57,241 --> 00:21:59,761
Speaker 2: French and I mates. We trained together. We trained and

438
00:22:00,281 --> 00:22:01,961
Speaker 2: I was telling French you about drug deal and you

439
00:22:02,041 --> 00:22:03,960
Speaker 2: know how much money because French was you to stick up,

440
00:22:03,961 --> 00:22:06,400
Speaker 2: some stick up, said gone, there's no money's deck up

441
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:08,200
Speaker 2: and this is where the money is. You know. We

442
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,761
Speaker 2: trained every single day and we're super fit and you know,

443
00:22:11,921 --> 00:22:14,920
Speaker 2: we're mates, and there's the worst part of our drug addiction.

444
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:17,561
Speaker 2: And I got out of jail a French. You'd been

445
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:19,880
Speaker 2: out about five months. He started working for Eddie Smith,

446
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:24,761
Speaker 2: started selling gift for Eddie and so I get the French.

447
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:27,561
Speaker 2: He hears I'm out. He comes and sees me, mate,

448
00:22:29,241 --> 00:22:30,721
Speaker 2: give you half an hounce and give you a start,

449
00:22:30,801 --> 00:22:33,400
Speaker 2: you know, thanks brother, you know. And he turned up,

450
00:22:33,441 --> 00:22:37,441
Speaker 2: you know, six days later, I'm short. I've used most

451
00:22:37,481 --> 00:22:40,200
Speaker 2: of it. He's like, what happened? I said, mate, it

452
00:22:40,281 --> 00:22:42,721
Speaker 2: just gives another half and I'll get, you know. The

453
00:22:42,721 --> 00:22:44,640
Speaker 2: week later, I'm short. And he said, mate, who the

454
00:22:44,721 --> 00:22:48,600
Speaker 2: fuck are you? Where's my mate? Where's Ronnie? Where's my

455
00:22:48,681 --> 00:22:52,400
Speaker 2: mate from jail? You know, the bloat that was staunch loyal?

456
00:22:52,921 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 2: Where's he gone? And he did? He said to me,

457
00:22:55,120 --> 00:22:56,681
Speaker 2: there's a funny joke. We said, joke, but he said,

458
00:22:56,721 --> 00:22:58,080
Speaker 2: we said, but I'm gonna have to put one in

459
00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:00,321
Speaker 2: your leg or something. So I can't just keep letting

460
00:23:00,360 --> 00:23:02,600
Speaker 2: you rob me. He said, everyone's going to rob me.

461
00:23:03,321 --> 00:23:05,321
Speaker 2: But that's what a dish had done to me. I

462
00:23:05,360 --> 00:23:11,440
Speaker 2: could no longer be reliable, consistent, you know. I couldn't

463
00:23:11,441 --> 00:23:13,001
Speaker 2: do anything. Man, if it come time to get a

464
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:18,360
Speaker 2: shot or save your life, you were dead because the

465
00:23:18,441 --> 00:23:20,720
Speaker 2: drugs just took everything. That's why I hated them so much.

466
00:23:20,761 --> 00:23:23,880
Speaker 2: That's why I hate them today. I hate what drugs

467
00:23:23,921 --> 00:23:26,360
Speaker 2: can do to good people. What it does to a

468
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,681
Speaker 2: scumbag is terrible, because scum bag just goes to another level.

469
00:23:30,120 --> 00:23:32,281
Speaker 2: But even people with good morals and good luck, you know,

470
00:23:32,761 --> 00:23:36,080
Speaker 2: good principles, once they get on the gear, we lose

471
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,160
Speaker 2: that stuff, you know. You know. I didn't tell on people,

472
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,640
Speaker 2: and I didn't rob me family, but I robbed everybody else,

473
00:23:43,041 --> 00:23:45,280
Speaker 2: you know, and I robbed everybody. I didn't care who

474
00:23:45,321 --> 00:23:47,801
Speaker 2: it was. I didn't care if it was a saffron.

475
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,401
Speaker 2: I didn't care who it was if someone had dope,

476
00:23:50,441 --> 00:23:52,640
Speaker 2: and I didn't care who it belonged to. I robbed

477
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:54,521
Speaker 2: them because if I was going to be sick, what

478
00:23:54,561 --> 00:23:56,001
Speaker 2: are you going to do? Kill me? If you kill me,

479
00:23:56,041 --> 00:23:57,001
Speaker 2: what are you going to do? Put me out of

480
00:23:57,001 --> 00:24:00,440
Speaker 2: my misery? Because that was my attitude. Sometimes I just

481
00:24:00,561 --> 00:24:02,721
Speaker 2: to wish you would kill me. I escaped from prison

482
00:24:02,801 --> 00:24:06,241
Speaker 2: in seventy seven. I got recaptured the cross. Like I

483
00:24:06,321 --> 00:24:08,481
Speaker 2: was going. I went a long way. How would you

484
00:24:08,521 --> 00:24:11,601
Speaker 2: find an escape? Being a cross like? You know, it's

485
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,041
Speaker 2: true story and I got to escape?

486
00:24:14,521 --> 00:24:15,321
Speaker 1: How did you escape?

487
00:24:15,321 --> 00:24:17,001
Speaker 2: I swam. I was on an island called Mills and

488
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,121
Speaker 2: Island's on the hawks For river. But I wasn't real

489
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,961
Speaker 2: bright because I didn't realize. I didn't think it's a

490
00:24:24,041 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 2: tidal river, right, it's a title, so it's only a

491
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:31,241
Speaker 2: sixth kse swim. The tide was coming in, so it

492
00:24:31,321 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 2: took me six hours to get to the ridge because

493
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:37,161
Speaker 2: I swam from from the island to Brooklyn Ridge took

494
00:24:37,201 --> 00:24:39,360
Speaker 2: me six hours. I left eleven o'clock at night and

495
00:24:39,481 --> 00:24:43,160
Speaker 2: I hit Brooklyn Road at five am in the morning. Bloody,

496
00:24:43,281 --> 00:24:46,001
Speaker 2: I was fucked. You can imagine, you know, you're swimming

497
00:24:46,001 --> 00:24:48,041
Speaker 2: against the tide. I'm doing back straight side striking, and

498
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,521
Speaker 2: I'm going back the other way, back towards the island. Nothing.

499
00:24:50,681 --> 00:24:54,160
Speaker 2: Oh no, I had a bag full of clothes. In

500
00:24:54,201 --> 00:24:56,761
Speaker 2: those days, I stroked segrest so I had a glad

501
00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,201
Speaker 2: garbage bag type. You saw me wait for the bell

502
00:24:59,281 --> 00:25:01,400
Speaker 2: rounding way so I could swim and turned. So the

503
00:25:01,481 --> 00:25:04,481
Speaker 2: bag has spinry and I had a few joints before

504
00:25:04,521 --> 00:25:08,121
Speaker 2: I went. So every now and again in the bag

505
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:09,521
Speaker 2: and hit me on the leg and that's that. Joints

506
00:25:09,521 --> 00:25:14,680
Speaker 2: pretty renowned for sharks try to ship me. You know,

507
00:25:15,360 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 2: it's quite comic when you think about how insane I

508
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 2: was to think that I could swim up. So I

509
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 2: actually thought I was gonna be able to swim off

510
00:25:22,281 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 2: the island going the cross rob some dealers come back,

511
00:25:25,241 --> 00:25:27,360
Speaker 2: swim back to the island, and the screws wouldn't know

512
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 2: I was gone.

513
00:25:28,441 --> 00:25:29,241
Speaker 1: That's all you were going to do.

514
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:31,281
Speaker 2: That's what I was going to do, because on the

515
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:33,801
Speaker 2: on the island at eight o'clock at night, the screws

516
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:35,880
Speaker 2: would lock themselves in a room. There's only two screws on.

517
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 1: The We're getting out just to fucking get out.

518
00:25:38,001 --> 00:25:39,321
Speaker 2: You're getting out to just get I was going to

519
00:25:39,360 --> 00:25:41,360
Speaker 2: get out to get on, not going around to the

520
00:25:41,360 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 2: few of the boarders said he's got any cash, give

521
00:25:43,041 --> 00:25:46,081
Speaker 2: me some car, fuck and we'll get on. Tom.

522
00:25:46,120 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 1: I'm getting out of jail to fucking get out of there.

523
00:25:48,281 --> 00:25:49,121
Speaker 1: You were going to get a fixed.

524
00:25:49,120 --> 00:25:50,440
Speaker 2: I was going to need a fix. I was going

525
00:25:50,481 --> 00:25:54,721
Speaker 2: to score ship and I fucked it up in my

526
00:25:55,120 --> 00:26:00,041
Speaker 2: firing was a little bit off. And yeah, so the

527
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:01,721
Speaker 2: truth of the matter was by the tom I even

528
00:26:01,761 --> 00:26:04,561
Speaker 2: got to the cross. I was I was an escape

529
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 2: bee because I'd done the first six clock head check

530
00:26:06,801 --> 00:26:09,161
Speaker 2: and I wasn't there. I didn't get to the cross

531
00:26:09,201 --> 00:26:09,880
Speaker 2: of six am with.

532
00:26:09,961 --> 00:26:12,521
Speaker 1: They nub where they nab you and the cross you know,

533
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 1: one of the right.

534
00:26:14,961 --> 00:26:16,160
Speaker 2: Across the way from the Cluechy Bar.

535
00:26:16,441 --> 00:26:17,481
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, well I was.

536
00:26:17,481 --> 00:26:19,761
Speaker 2: Actually I jumped through the window of the Cluechy Bar

537
00:26:19,801 --> 00:26:21,521
Speaker 2: at the top. There was a house up the top

538
00:26:21,521 --> 00:26:24,120
Speaker 2: of the clutchi bar. I'd climb, I'd run along the roofs.

539
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,880
Speaker 2: What happened was I'd broke. I'd broken into a chemist

540
00:26:27,961 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 2: a few days before. You know, I'd only been at

541
00:26:30,761 --> 00:26:33,880
Speaker 2: jar twenty one day's night. I went into the jar

542
00:26:33,961 --> 00:26:38,200
Speaker 2: because a chemist got me pitched from doing a bodgy script.

543
00:26:39,120 --> 00:26:41,281
Speaker 2: So I went back and robbed the chemist, who's a

544
00:26:41,321 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 2: square up. I thought, yeah, okay, I'll get square up.

545
00:26:45,120 --> 00:26:46,721
Speaker 2: So I went back and I stole the safe and

546
00:26:46,801 --> 00:26:47,961
Speaker 2: I've got the or the gear.

547
00:26:48,441 --> 00:26:48,521
Speaker 1: Well.

548
00:26:48,561 --> 00:26:50,801
Speaker 2: I got on a drug called rittlin. I don't know

549
00:26:50,801 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 2: if you know what it is. This they give it

550
00:26:52,001 --> 00:26:55,841
Speaker 2: to adh t ad h kids. What it is. It's

551
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:59,841
Speaker 2: a smooth similar drug between spood and coke, and you're

552
00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:02,801
Speaker 2: going to psychosis with it really quickly. And I'm a

553
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,561
Speaker 2: heroin atic, so here I am heroinautic using an upper

554
00:27:06,561 --> 00:27:11,281
Speaker 2: so I was saving visual psychosis. And I'm standing on.

555
00:27:11,360 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 2: I'm a skate peach, so of course I'm paranoid. Now

556
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 2: this makes you ten times on paranoid. And I'm at

557
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:17,721
Speaker 2: the top of this empty house. You know, I know

558
00:27:17,801 --> 00:27:19,640
Speaker 2: you're out there, you fucking guns come and get me.

559
00:27:19,721 --> 00:27:23,640
Speaker 2: You know, there's no one out there, and it's completely insane.

560
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,561
Speaker 2: And I jumped your taxi's poor taxi driver. I'd got

561
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,481
Speaker 2: to glebe. I jumped in the taxi, I go, takes

562
00:27:29,521 --> 00:27:31,481
Speaker 2: me to King's Cross and as we're coming out Williams Street,

563
00:27:32,041 --> 00:27:34,241
Speaker 2: my brain said he's a copper. It's going to cover

564
00:27:34,321 --> 00:27:36,281
Speaker 2: cop of the taxi driver. And I had a knife

565
00:27:36,321 --> 00:27:38,400
Speaker 2: for me bag and I grabbed the cop I grabbed

566
00:27:38,441 --> 00:27:40,241
Speaker 2: the texture and I said, pull over you. I know

567
00:27:40,321 --> 00:27:42,120
Speaker 2: you're a copper. Your ass wipe, you know, And I

568
00:27:42,241 --> 00:27:44,001
Speaker 2: jumped out of the cabin. I start running up Wair Street,

569
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:46,161
Speaker 2: up the back where the train is used to the lane.

570
00:27:46,281 --> 00:27:48,640
Speaker 2: Yet yeah, so I start running up that lane because

571
00:27:48,681 --> 00:27:50,041
Speaker 2: I knew the closes your bar. Then they used to

572
00:27:50,041 --> 00:27:51,561
Speaker 2: have a doorway there before they were the gate there

573
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:53,920
Speaker 2: went up on the roof. Don't know why. By this

574
00:27:54,041 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 2: time I've lost the shoe. I jumped the fence of

575
00:27:56,681 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 2: the church, put us tomatoes break through, steak through my

576
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,360
Speaker 2: leg so I got my legs split open. I got

577
00:28:02,441 --> 00:28:05,961
Speaker 2: my shoe. I'm running and I jumped through the back door.

578
00:28:06,001 --> 00:28:07,761
Speaker 2: You know the back door, Well that used to be

579
00:28:07,761 --> 00:28:10,400
Speaker 2: call the black Cat. It was a gay bar. I

580
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:16,001
Speaker 2: ran straight through the glass window. Glass went everywhere, and

581
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,241
Speaker 2: I ran from they were sitting, They're like ah, And

582
00:28:18,321 --> 00:28:20,120
Speaker 2: I ran to the front and before they had the

583
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,440
Speaker 2: back engine where the low tell is. I climbed up

584
00:28:22,441 --> 00:28:24,481
Speaker 2: the pole and I climbed into the roof, and I

585
00:28:24,521 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 2: thought I was going to get away, but you know,

586
00:28:26,120 --> 00:28:29,680
Speaker 2: there's been this destruction the whole way. But the coppers

587
00:28:29,681 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 2: weren't even chasing me. The copper started to chasing me

588
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:34,640
Speaker 2: when the guy across the road from the Cloisi bar

589
00:28:34,761 --> 00:28:37,161
Speaker 2: rang the pleasure, said some manic. It just climbed through

590
00:28:37,201 --> 00:28:40,321
Speaker 2: his window with one shoe on, bleeding and ran across

591
00:28:40,361 --> 00:28:43,681
Speaker 2: and joyed through the front of the back door. So

592
00:28:44,241 --> 00:28:47,361
Speaker 2: it was all. It was all in hallucination. Yeah, I

593
00:28:47,441 --> 00:28:50,361
Speaker 2: was in psychosis. I was completely man. Anyway, the coppers

594
00:28:50,921 --> 00:28:53,401
Speaker 2: got on the roof. I heard it on say, Sae,

595
00:28:53,521 --> 00:28:56,521
Speaker 2: sare the blood everywhere here? Because I climbed under the

596
00:28:56,561 --> 00:28:58,361
Speaker 2: awning and all the blood was just running down the

597
00:28:58,401 --> 00:29:01,521
Speaker 2: corrugated iron. And they just lifted up and pulled me out.

598
00:29:01,601 --> 00:29:04,841
Speaker 2: And the copper's name is Grace, Detective Grace. I'll never forget.

599
00:29:05,041 --> 00:29:07,321
Speaker 2: I had known it for years. And he pulled me

600
00:29:07,361 --> 00:29:08,801
Speaker 2: out and they put me downstairs, and they had me

601
00:29:08,841 --> 00:29:10,921
Speaker 2: on the ground out in front of the hotel, and

602
00:29:11,041 --> 00:29:12,241
Speaker 2: he said to me, what are we going to do

603
00:29:12,361 --> 00:29:15,561
Speaker 2: with you? And I swell my mother. I said, put

604
00:29:15,601 --> 00:29:17,321
Speaker 2: a gun on me, had and blow my fucking head off.

605
00:29:18,281 --> 00:29:19,481
Speaker 2: That's what I wanted, That's what I said it. And

606
00:29:19,561 --> 00:29:21,401
Speaker 2: I said, so put a gun in my head and

607
00:29:21,441 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 2: blow my fucking head off. Put me out of my misery.

608
00:29:24,321 --> 00:29:26,201
Speaker 2: And they took me straight at the Saint Vincent's Hospital

609
00:29:26,241 --> 00:29:28,961
Speaker 2: and stitched up on my leg and took me back in,

610
00:29:29,081 --> 00:29:31,041
Speaker 2: charged with escape and all that stuff. But I honestly,

611
00:29:31,281 --> 00:29:35,121
Speaker 2: and the next morning the front page of the Telegraph

612
00:29:35,201 --> 00:29:38,801
Speaker 2: was rogue animal recaptured and I sort of took that

613
00:29:38,921 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 2: personal for years, I thought, but then I look back. No, right,

614
00:29:41,521 --> 00:29:44,041
Speaker 2: that's pretty right, because you know that's what I'd gone to.

615
00:29:44,241 --> 00:29:46,081
Speaker 2: I'd gone to that level of being a rogue animal.

616
00:29:46,881 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 2: I had no respect for human life. I had no

617
00:29:49,441 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 2: respect for my own life, no consideration for my family,

618
00:29:54,361 --> 00:29:56,401
Speaker 2: and you know mom My mom was a piece of

619
00:29:56,681 --> 00:29:58,081
Speaker 2: I didn't care about any But you know, I had

620
00:29:58,081 --> 00:30:00,321
Speaker 2: a little sister and by that's why I had a

621
00:30:00,401 --> 00:30:03,401
Speaker 2: son who I had deserted, and all that stuff that's

622
00:30:03,441 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 2: really important to me today had gone away, and I

623
00:30:08,321 --> 00:30:10,201
Speaker 2: was in As I said in nineteen eighty one, when

624
00:30:11,281 --> 00:30:13,001
Speaker 2: French I'd go to jail and French he said to me,

625
00:30:13,441 --> 00:30:15,481
Speaker 2: I'm going to shoot you. And I was laughing. He

626
00:30:15,521 --> 00:30:17,241
Speaker 2: was laughing about it, and he said to me, he's

627
00:30:17,241 --> 00:30:20,281
Speaker 2: a true story. And I've said this before, and he said,

628
00:30:20,281 --> 00:30:22,481
Speaker 2: I'm going to knock Neddie. I don't know if you

629
00:30:22,521 --> 00:30:25,441
Speaker 2: ever met Neddie. I don't like Neddie. I've I never

630
00:30:25,601 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 2: liked him. That's just me personally. We never liked each other.

631
00:30:28,281 --> 00:30:29,961
Speaker 2: We walked past each other for a hundred years and

632
00:30:30,001 --> 00:30:33,761
Speaker 2: went ned ron nod of the head. That's all there was. Wow,

633
00:30:33,961 --> 00:30:36,201
Speaker 2: that was the conversation because there was a guy called

634
00:30:36,361 --> 00:30:39,681
Speaker 2: Bobby Chapman. He probably wasn't around when you were around here.

635
00:30:39,761 --> 00:30:42,841
Speaker 2: He was a bad, bad guy. Him and Neddie got

636
00:30:42,881 --> 00:30:45,801
Speaker 2: pinched together a hundred years ago on a rape charge.

637
00:30:46,441 --> 00:30:48,521
Speaker 2: And I don't like rapists anyway, so you know, it

638
00:30:48,681 --> 00:30:53,281
Speaker 2: was a conflict of my belief system, and so I

639
00:30:53,361 --> 00:30:55,881
Speaker 2: always knew that ned was no good. And then French

640
00:30:55,961 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 2: he said to me this particular morning, he said, I'm

641
00:30:57,721 --> 00:31:00,201
Speaker 2: going to knock Neddie and I said, stop it. Don't

642
00:31:00,281 --> 00:31:02,761
Speaker 2: tell me. I don't want to hear about it. I said,

643
00:31:02,801 --> 00:31:05,721
Speaker 2: if you're going to do it, don't tell anybody. That's

644
00:31:05,761 --> 00:31:08,561
Speaker 2: because if he gets wind of it, he'll get your knocked.

645
00:31:08,921 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 2: Just don't tell me. You don't tell anybody. If you

646
00:31:11,241 --> 00:31:13,281
Speaker 2: want to do it, just do it. A week and

647
00:31:13,321 --> 00:31:17,720
Speaker 2: a half later, I got pinched. I'm in jail. Frenchhi

648
00:31:17,721 --> 00:31:24,881
Speaker 2: gets knocked, you know, Roger Robson and Neddie got him down.

649
00:31:25,041 --> 00:31:28,361
Speaker 2: Neddie padded him down, said French's unarmed. Those place. The

650
00:31:28,361 --> 00:31:29,961
Speaker 2: French was going to pay me, tell me to argue

651
00:31:30,121 --> 00:31:33,001
Speaker 2: twenty grand and he took twenty round, knocked him and

652
00:31:33,041 --> 00:31:34,641
Speaker 2: took his chain, and he's watching his ring off and

653
00:31:35,401 --> 00:31:37,521
Speaker 2: murdered him. And I don't care what anyone says about that.

654
00:31:37,561 --> 00:31:39,641
Speaker 2: That's the truth, you know, that's the truth that's coming

655
00:31:39,641 --> 00:31:41,081
Speaker 2: from the guy that got knocked. You know, I know

656
00:31:41,161 --> 00:31:44,921
Speaker 2: what was going on. And so I was in jail

657
00:31:44,961 --> 00:31:47,561
Speaker 2: and I shipped myself because another guy came into jail

658
00:31:47,561 --> 00:31:50,361
Speaker 2: and he said, a couple of days after you got pinched,

659
00:31:50,401 --> 00:31:52,121
Speaker 2: he said, I got grabbed by Roger, and he's looking

660
00:31:52,161 --> 00:31:55,401
Speaker 2: for you. I said, what he's looking for you? He

661
00:31:55,441 --> 00:31:57,801
Speaker 2: wants he wants you. And when Roger's looking for you

662
00:31:57,881 --> 00:32:01,681
Speaker 2: those days, he didn't show off somewhere you went missing.

663
00:32:01,721 --> 00:32:04,361
Speaker 2: You didn't know either way you went missing, you know,

664
00:32:04,361 --> 00:32:06,960
Speaker 2: I mean, he's just like a path. And the Maid

665
00:32:07,041 --> 00:32:10,401
Speaker 2: of mind said to me, said, go to rehab because

666
00:32:10,441 --> 00:32:12,241
Speaker 2: I can't. I can't get out of jail, I can't escape.

667
00:32:12,281 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 2: I'm miss I'm escaped, but they're not going to let

668
00:32:14,481 --> 00:32:16,841
Speaker 2: me into any way escape. And I went to my

669
00:32:16,921 --> 00:32:20,161
Speaker 2: first rehab in nineteen eighty one, and that's where my

670
00:32:20,321 --> 00:32:22,921
Speaker 2: recovery began. I didn't get clean fand then I stayed

671
00:32:22,961 --> 00:32:24,881
Speaker 2: clean for a year, and then I mucked around and

672
00:32:24,961 --> 00:32:27,921
Speaker 2: I stayed clean for ten months a year, and then

673
00:32:28,041 --> 00:32:30,761
Speaker 2: thirty months and then I haven't had a drink since

674
00:32:30,881 --> 00:32:33,921
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty two. Last time I had a drink was

675
00:32:33,961 --> 00:32:35,401
Speaker 2: in I've got it out of the rehab for one

676
00:32:35,521 --> 00:32:38,561
Speaker 2: day and a bloke said to me. I asked, you

677
00:32:38,641 --> 00:32:40,601
Speaker 2: know you got to have on problem. I haven't got

678
00:32:40,641 --> 00:32:44,081
Speaker 2: an helphol problem. So I had a couple of beers

679
00:32:44,121 --> 00:32:45,761
Speaker 2: with him, and then I took a couple of pills

680
00:32:46,721 --> 00:32:49,281
Speaker 2: and I need some money, so I went to do

681
00:32:49,361 --> 00:32:52,121
Speaker 2: an armed robbery in Canberra. It was and I fucking

682
00:32:52,161 --> 00:32:55,241
Speaker 2: stole a car, crashed the car because I'm drinking. I'm

683
00:32:55,281 --> 00:32:57,721
Speaker 2: on the pills and on the drink. The police car

684
00:32:57,801 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 2: came in accident quad casts, a big orange transit van.

685
00:33:00,361 --> 00:33:03,521
Speaker 2: I stole that. I've made out like I mean, mates

686
00:33:03,601 --> 00:33:05,361
Speaker 2: in the car. He's stuck in the bush. Know where

687
00:33:05,361 --> 00:33:07,841
Speaker 2: I've crashed. The car never left the motor running because

688
00:33:07,841 --> 00:33:10,121
Speaker 2: its not a police cars and I fucking just jumped

689
00:33:10,121 --> 00:33:11,401
Speaker 2: to the seat and I stole that, you know. So

690
00:33:11,761 --> 00:33:13,521
Speaker 2: that was the last tiay I to drink nine eighty two.

691
00:33:14,161 --> 00:33:15,521
Speaker 2: And the last time I took a drug was a

692
00:33:15,601 --> 00:33:19,241
Speaker 2: third of March nineteen eighty six. So I stopped using

693
00:33:19,281 --> 00:33:22,121
Speaker 2: all drugs. But I never got out of the criminal world.

694
00:33:22,841 --> 00:33:24,361
Speaker 2: That was the hardest thing to get out of because

695
00:33:24,401 --> 00:33:26,801
Speaker 2: that's what I'd burned my whole life. I didn't I'd

696
00:33:26,841 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 2: never been anything else. I didn't know anything else. Now,

697
00:33:29,521 --> 00:33:31,281
Speaker 2: most people that get off drugs will get off whatever

698
00:33:31,281 --> 00:33:33,481
Speaker 2: their additions are, go back to what they used to

699
00:33:33,561 --> 00:33:37,121
Speaker 2: do before they become a drug addict. See, most people

700
00:33:37,121 --> 00:33:40,681
Speaker 2: become drug addicts because you know, if something you know,

701
00:33:40,721 --> 00:33:43,281
Speaker 2: they become criminals because they're drug addicts. I wasn't like

702
00:33:43,361 --> 00:33:45,361
Speaker 2: that for me. I was a criminal. Then I became

703
00:33:45,361 --> 00:33:48,361
Speaker 2: a drug addict, so I had nothing to go back to.

704
00:33:48,441 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 2: I didn't really have a trade. My trade was crime,

705
00:33:52,361 --> 00:33:53,961
Speaker 2: you know, And I went back into the world and

706
00:33:55,561 --> 00:33:58,721
Speaker 2: try to be mister normal. It's really hard to be

707
00:33:58,801 --> 00:34:01,241
Speaker 2: normals if you talk.

708
00:34:01,201 --> 00:34:03,281
Speaker 1: But you think being what were you're saying you went

709
00:34:03,321 --> 00:34:04,881
Speaker 1: back to the criminal Is it the fact that the

710
00:34:05,081 --> 00:34:09,121
Speaker 1: people you're associaate with we're using you to be back

711
00:34:09,201 --> 00:34:12,281
Speaker 1: in that criminal world, or is it yourself?

712
00:34:12,921 --> 00:34:14,641
Speaker 2: But there are the any people I knew now I

713
00:34:14,681 --> 00:34:15,601
Speaker 2: didn't know anybody else.

714
00:34:15,801 --> 00:34:17,681
Speaker 1: But it's like it's like when you know, I got

715
00:34:17,721 --> 00:34:20,321
Speaker 1: out of it myself, I made myself go away from

716
00:34:20,401 --> 00:34:22,801
Speaker 1: everybody so I wouldn't be entasted back in.

717
00:34:23,001 --> 00:34:26,001
Speaker 2: One hundred percent. Well I didn't do that at first. Plus,

718
00:34:26,441 --> 00:34:29,721
Speaker 2: to be honest, I like being the man. I liked

719
00:34:29,801 --> 00:34:32,881
Speaker 2: being the man, you know, I liked. I liked. You know,

720
00:34:33,241 --> 00:34:35,321
Speaker 2: we have a friend. He'd ring me up and he said,

721
00:34:35,321 --> 00:34:38,321
Speaker 2: we've got the Penhouse pet party on the club and

722
00:34:38,441 --> 00:34:40,001
Speaker 2: that's any way you can get me because I don't drink,

723
00:34:40,601 --> 00:34:43,041
Speaker 2: you know, I mean so my other addiction was pretty girls.

724
00:34:43,641 --> 00:34:47,201
Speaker 2: You so, yeah, we've got the Penno. Those days, I

725
00:34:47,281 --> 00:34:51,081
Speaker 2: was driving a white trans am and Chevy Kamara convertible

726
00:34:51,641 --> 00:34:54,721
Speaker 2: like any one in Australia, Like we're next on the

727
00:34:54,801 --> 00:34:58,721
Speaker 2: number plates and Johnny just say, mate, you know, put

728
00:34:58,761 --> 00:35:01,041
Speaker 2: your Everyone have to move their carry out so I

729
00:35:01,081 --> 00:35:02,881
Speaker 2: can come and park in the lane right at the tunnel.

730
00:35:02,921 --> 00:35:05,521
Speaker 2: You know, I just park there. You and of course

731
00:35:05,561 --> 00:35:05,921
Speaker 2: I gave it.

732
00:35:05,921 --> 00:35:06,041
Speaker 1: You know.

733
00:35:06,121 --> 00:35:08,801
Speaker 2: It's like saying that there's all these girls going to

734
00:35:08,841 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 2: be there. You want to come to the club. Yes,

735
00:35:11,801 --> 00:35:16,001
Speaker 2: we've got a fundraiser on for a child before Leeds

736
00:35:16,001 --> 00:35:16,361
Speaker 2: want to come?

737
00:35:16,481 --> 00:35:17,361
Speaker 1: No you know.

738
00:35:18,841 --> 00:35:20,881
Speaker 2: The girls, yes, oh come to the front raise, you know,

739
00:35:21,001 --> 00:35:23,441
Speaker 2: like the Penouse pep party would always get me to

740
00:35:23,481 --> 00:35:23,761
Speaker 2: the club.

741
00:35:23,841 --> 00:35:23,961
Speaker 1: You know.

742
00:35:24,081 --> 00:35:26,761
Speaker 2: That was sort of like it was Johnny's way of saying, like,

743
00:35:26,841 --> 00:35:31,201
Speaker 2: I got you again yours, you know. But look, there's

744
00:35:31,241 --> 00:35:34,081
Speaker 2: some really good memories. And the funny part is, I'm

745
00:35:34,121 --> 00:35:35,481
Speaker 2: going to say this really quick because I think it's

746
00:35:35,481 --> 00:35:42,081
Speaker 2: really important. I was involved in drug crime. Sjohn was

747
00:35:42,201 --> 00:35:45,641
Speaker 2: never involved in drug crime with me ever. And I

748
00:35:45,721 --> 00:35:48,561
Speaker 2: can say the hand on heart and everyone goes, I say,

749
00:35:48,601 --> 00:35:51,841
Speaker 2: fucking no, it wasn't. No, it wasn't. It was not.

750
00:35:52,761 --> 00:35:55,041
Speaker 2: Don't even go there because I won't accept that. Couldn't

751
00:35:55,041 --> 00:35:57,281
Speaker 2: I know, because I know because I know what was

752
00:35:57,361 --> 00:35:58,681
Speaker 2: going on up there. I was part of it. I

753
00:35:58,801 --> 00:36:02,841
Speaker 2: was after hearing in that in that world, and he

754
00:36:03,081 --> 00:36:06,561
Speaker 2: wasn't he was, you know, he was a really loyal,

755
00:36:08,681 --> 00:36:13,121
Speaker 2: trusted human being that whatever he did, he did and

756
00:36:13,161 --> 00:36:15,761
Speaker 2: that was his business. But he didn't do my business.

757
00:36:16,281 --> 00:36:18,121
Speaker 2: He didn't, Mate, he really didn't, you know. And I

758
00:36:18,201 --> 00:36:19,841
Speaker 2: say that a lot of people, and people try to say,

759
00:36:20,281 --> 00:36:22,601
Speaker 2: you know, you're involved with John to say, mate, it

760
00:36:22,721 --> 00:36:25,921
Speaker 2: wasn't that. Don't go near there. Don't even fucking insinuate that.

761
00:36:26,801 --> 00:36:28,881
Speaker 2: Anybody else you can talk about, but don't go down

762
00:36:28,961 --> 00:36:34,201
Speaker 2: that road with that one. Because our relationship was based

763
00:36:34,241 --> 00:36:38,521
Speaker 2: on a mutual respect for each other. He would have

764
00:36:38,601 --> 00:36:42,321
Speaker 2: known what I did because of associates. He never ever

765
00:36:42,641 --> 00:36:45,121
Speaker 2: spoke about it to me, and I never spoke about

766
00:36:45,161 --> 00:36:46,641
Speaker 2: it to him. You know. It was something that was like,

767
00:36:47,361 --> 00:36:50,081
Speaker 2: had nothing to do with it, you know, and I do.

768
00:36:50,201 --> 00:36:52,681
Speaker 2: I have had this conversation for many years with people

769
00:36:52,721 --> 00:36:57,761
Speaker 2: to try to say, mate, what's your mouth? What's your mouth?

770
00:36:57,841 --> 00:36:59,401
Speaker 2: Unless you've got something to put in front of me,

771
00:36:59,481 --> 00:37:01,881
Speaker 2: wa'sch your mouth? Don't say that unless you can put

772
00:37:01,921 --> 00:37:04,561
Speaker 2: it down and say I was there. Don't say that

773
00:37:04,721 --> 00:37:07,321
Speaker 2: because it's not fucking true. You can talk about any

774
00:37:07,321 --> 00:37:09,201
Speaker 2: of the other the brother you can talk about anything else,

775
00:37:10,081 --> 00:37:12,601
Speaker 2: but that young fellow. No, don't bring that up with me,

776
00:37:12,681 --> 00:37:16,041
Speaker 2: you know, because I actually knew George, and you know,

777
00:37:16,241 --> 00:37:18,321
Speaker 2: I go back a long way because I'm an old bastard.

778
00:37:18,361 --> 00:37:21,361
Speaker 1: But yeah, the most of the most of you your

779
00:37:22,441 --> 00:37:26,161
Speaker 1: like your drug runs were based in the Cross or

780
00:37:26,241 --> 00:37:28,881
Speaker 1: around Sydney itself, Cross Cross.

781
00:37:28,801 --> 00:37:32,201
Speaker 2: Truss Cross and Inner West because back in the day,

782
00:37:32,361 --> 00:37:36,201
Speaker 2: the Cross was it. That was it. After the Cross died,

783
00:37:36,201 --> 00:37:39,081
Speaker 2: they went to camera, but by that time I'd already

784
00:37:39,081 --> 00:37:42,121
Speaker 2: gotten clean, and I was ignorant to the fact that

785
00:37:42,281 --> 00:37:49,281
Speaker 2: cocaine to me wasn't a drug. Cocaines fuckers for these

786
00:37:49,481 --> 00:37:54,241
Speaker 2: lawyers and countings and stock exchange, fuck them, the rich people.

787
00:37:54,281 --> 00:37:57,121
Speaker 2: I did like them. I'm a street kid. Soone was like,

788
00:37:57,201 --> 00:37:59,761
Speaker 2: you get it, India, get it. You can get a

789
00:37:59,841 --> 00:38:03,161
Speaker 2: nose full and got your fucking stepped and fucking fixed up.

790
00:38:03,641 --> 00:38:05,841
Speaker 2: Like it didn't care. You know, I really can't care. Yeah,

791
00:38:05,881 --> 00:38:09,081
Speaker 2: because to me, it was like I'm not involved in

792
00:38:09,201 --> 00:38:11,841
Speaker 2: that world anymore, under the heroin world, blah blah blah.

793
00:38:12,121 --> 00:38:14,201
Speaker 2: But I still knew most of the guys that were

794
00:38:14,241 --> 00:38:16,441
Speaker 2: running the coke in the country. You know, most of

795
00:38:16,521 --> 00:38:19,041
Speaker 2: the guys I knew were still bringing the coke in,

796
00:38:19,081 --> 00:38:23,521
Speaker 2: you know, because a lot of people thought coke as

797
00:38:23,681 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 2: a party drug. And I laughed when when will sail

798
00:38:27,481 --> 00:38:30,001
Speaker 2: I got arrested with it, he got a rest with

799
00:38:30,081 --> 00:38:31,841
Speaker 2: a party drug. When I got arrested with it, I

800
00:38:31,921 --> 00:38:35,241
Speaker 2: got to rest with the narcotic. So where it transitions

801
00:38:35,281 --> 00:38:41,481
Speaker 2: from a party drug too, depends on your surname, apparently exactly.

802
00:38:41,561 --> 00:38:46,241
Speaker 2: You know. You know, I laughed because I've got eighteen years.

803
00:38:46,681 --> 00:38:50,201
Speaker 2: It's a fucking big sentence for conspiracy for twelve kilos.

804
00:38:50,281 --> 00:38:52,281
Speaker 2: It's a big lag in eighteen years, I've read that

805
00:38:52,361 --> 00:38:54,761
Speaker 2: at the time, it was a massive lagon and there

806
00:38:54,841 --> 00:38:57,361
Speaker 2: was no gear got in the country, no coke got

807
00:38:57,401 --> 00:39:00,601
Speaker 2: in the country. It was conspiracy, so there's no dope

808
00:39:00,641 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 2: got in the country. And I lost a lot of money.

809
00:39:03,001 --> 00:39:07,401
Speaker 2: They took all my went through me through the proceeds

810
00:39:07,441 --> 00:39:09,681
Speaker 2: of crimes actor. But there was no process from that crime,

811
00:39:10,761 --> 00:39:12,881
Speaker 2: you know, but it was it was just I'm not

812
00:39:12,921 --> 00:39:16,281
Speaker 2: a victim. I'm not a victim. I'm not poor, ron,

813
00:39:17,201 --> 00:39:19,801
Speaker 2: you know, I got to have a lot of stuff. So,

814
00:39:20,081 --> 00:39:22,001
Speaker 2: you know, I think when you talk on the karma,

815
00:39:22,521 --> 00:39:24,681
Speaker 2: I believe in karma. When I talk in the karma,

816
00:39:24,761 --> 00:39:27,481
Speaker 2: will I'm okay today? I believe I'm waiting front. I

817
00:39:27,561 --> 00:39:30,641
Speaker 2: believe not that I'm going to ever commit another crime,

818
00:39:30,881 --> 00:39:32,841
Speaker 2: because I mean that my whole heart. I mean that

819
00:39:32,921 --> 00:39:35,041
Speaker 2: as much as I say I've never used drugs again,

820
00:39:35,601 --> 00:39:37,601
Speaker 2: you know, I have that much commitment to being a

821
00:39:37,681 --> 00:39:39,201
Speaker 2: straight I like being straight.

822
00:39:40,281 --> 00:39:42,841
Speaker 1: Based on what you've seen and what you've been through

823
00:39:42,881 --> 00:39:45,081
Speaker 1: in the past. You know, the drug trade now compared

824
00:39:45,081 --> 00:39:46,201
Speaker 1: to back when you were doing.

825
00:39:46,041 --> 00:39:51,241
Speaker 2: It, it's disgusting. It's cutthroat. There's no such thing as loyalty. Well,

826
00:39:51,321 --> 00:39:53,561
Speaker 2: the difference when I was in doing it, we all

827
00:39:53,641 --> 00:39:56,961
Speaker 2: knew each other. Like if hash came into the country

828
00:39:57,281 --> 00:40:01,641
Speaker 2: that day, I knew Victor Spings owned it. If pot

829
00:40:01,801 --> 00:40:03,881
Speaker 2: came in, I knew mikel earlier, you know, I mean,

830
00:40:04,041 --> 00:40:08,521
Speaker 2: I knew who's it was. If certain drug came into

831
00:40:08,521 --> 00:40:11,841
Speaker 2: the country, we knew who was doing it. These days,

832
00:40:12,881 --> 00:40:16,121
Speaker 2: they've got so many people that are doing it that

833
00:40:17,081 --> 00:40:21,481
Speaker 2: are not really criminals. They've got no how can I

834
00:40:21,521 --> 00:40:24,881
Speaker 2: say they didn't do their apprenticeship, they didn't do their apprenticeship,

835
00:40:24,881 --> 00:40:27,201
Speaker 2: they didn't do the hard yards, and they get all

836
00:40:27,241 --> 00:40:31,761
Speaker 2: this money. Next thing, they're putting hits on each other.

837
00:40:33,401 --> 00:40:37,841
Speaker 2: That was unheard of. That was unheard of. Fucking you

838
00:40:37,881 --> 00:40:39,841
Speaker 2: don't lag your friends, you don't rob your friends, you

839
00:40:39,921 --> 00:40:42,601
Speaker 2: don't route your friend's girlfriends. You know, there was this

840
00:40:43,641 --> 00:40:45,921
Speaker 2: there was a code of ethics that was sort of unbreakable.

841
00:40:46,881 --> 00:40:48,681
Speaker 2: Now that doesn't seem to be any code of ethics.

842
00:40:48,721 --> 00:40:50,921
Speaker 2: You know, And the drugs changed, Don't get me wrong,

843
00:40:50,961 --> 00:40:55,841
Speaker 2: the drugs changed. I'm horror because I still work with

844
00:40:55,881 --> 00:40:58,281
Speaker 2: drug and alcoholic I help people know, I have been

845
00:40:58,321 --> 00:41:01,041
Speaker 2: helping people a long time. Even when I went see

846
00:41:01,161 --> 00:41:04,281
Speaker 2: when I went back into and got arrested in two

847
00:41:04,281 --> 00:41:07,041
Speaker 2: thousand and two, I was still doing other stuff. I've

848
00:41:07,121 --> 00:41:08,961
Speaker 2: run legal businesses for a long time, and I've got

849
00:41:09,001 --> 00:41:11,161
Speaker 2: out of the scene and I came back and I

850
00:41:11,201 --> 00:41:13,361
Speaker 2: shouldn't have. And you know what, maybe that was meant

851
00:41:13,401 --> 00:41:17,161
Speaker 2: to be. Maybe it was maybe it was my calma

852
00:41:17,241 --> 00:41:23,361
Speaker 2: being paid back. Maybe it was just the rocket ship.

853
00:41:23,401 --> 00:41:26,641
Speaker 2: I needed to change my thinking because I always thought

854
00:41:26,721 --> 00:41:30,201
Speaker 2: that it was okay, it was okay, I'm not harming anybody.

855
00:41:30,801 --> 00:41:32,881
Speaker 2: Now it's just a bit of coke. Who cares, you know?

856
00:41:33,001 --> 00:41:35,041
Speaker 2: And that was honestly, that was honestly my attitude.

857
00:41:35,161 --> 00:41:38,041
Speaker 1: I do think the police got window that because it

858
00:41:38,121 --> 00:41:40,161
Speaker 1: says they changed the drug to flowered or something like that.

859
00:41:40,241 --> 00:41:44,961
Speaker 2: Right up on. Yeah, yeah they they we got we

860
00:41:45,081 --> 00:41:49,241
Speaker 2: got shafted somewhere. Yeah, yeah, I don't. This is gonna

861
00:41:49,281 --> 00:41:51,201
Speaker 2: sound terrible. I wouldn't. I never used to work with

862
00:41:51,201 --> 00:41:53,841
Speaker 2: anyone who took drugs. I never sold to anyone who

863
00:41:53,881 --> 00:41:54,361
Speaker 2: took drugs.

864
00:41:55,121 --> 00:41:57,881
Speaker 1: Is that because of what you did to yourself personally?

865
00:41:57,921 --> 00:41:59,321
Speaker 1: You see what you did to yourself?

866
00:41:59,441 --> 00:42:03,041
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know to me, it was and I'm

867
00:42:03,041 --> 00:42:06,161
Speaker 2: not justifying to say this if I had been toothpicks

868
00:42:06,561 --> 00:42:09,401
Speaker 2: and make the same profit, or to solve toothpicks, if

869
00:42:09,441 --> 00:42:12,361
Speaker 2: toothpicks were illegal and I can bring them into the

870
00:42:12,401 --> 00:42:14,881
Speaker 2: country and make the same amount of profit what toothpicks in.

871
00:42:15,401 --> 00:42:17,921
Speaker 2: It wasn't the substance that I was bringing in. It

872
00:42:18,041 --> 00:42:21,561
Speaker 2: was the greed. And it was also the fuck you

873
00:42:22,801 --> 00:42:25,161
Speaker 2: because I had a real fuck you attitude towards the system.

874
00:42:25,721 --> 00:42:27,561
Speaker 2: You know, I'd gone to jail as a seven year

875
00:42:27,561 --> 00:42:31,801
Speaker 2: old kid, given drugs and basically traded a drug addict

876
00:42:32,761 --> 00:42:35,841
Speaker 2: and lived in a system that was completely broken that

877
00:42:36,921 --> 00:42:42,681
Speaker 2: the ship people got rewarded like pedophiles, kid touches would

878
00:42:42,721 --> 00:42:44,801
Speaker 2: get into the best jobs, they'd be in, the best

879
00:42:44,841 --> 00:42:47,401
Speaker 2: prisoners and all this stuff. The guys that was out

880
00:42:47,441 --> 00:42:49,361
Speaker 2: there trying to in the early days, man, I was

881
00:42:49,401 --> 00:42:51,921
Speaker 2: trying to eat. I was trying to fucking eat. You know.

882
00:42:52,241 --> 00:42:54,001
Speaker 2: I used to steal food on my way to school

883
00:42:54,521 --> 00:42:56,881
Speaker 2: to eat. Now, well that poor we had to steal.

884
00:42:56,921 --> 00:42:59,401
Speaker 2: My sister is to steal fruit from the old it

885
00:42:59,681 --> 00:43:01,401
Speaker 2: and fruit shops so we had something because we go

886
00:43:01,481 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 2: to school with no food. So I started stealing to eat.

887
00:43:07,561 --> 00:43:12,201
Speaker 2: I don't understand when I see rich kids drug dealing,

888
00:43:12,561 --> 00:43:15,881
Speaker 2: I don't understand it. I understand it. But they're doing

889
00:43:15,921 --> 00:43:17,321
Speaker 2: because they want to be the man and all that

890
00:43:17,441 --> 00:43:19,161
Speaker 2: sort of shit. That's what it is. You know. I

891
00:43:19,281 --> 00:43:21,521
Speaker 2: did enjoy it, you know when I got to the

892
00:43:21,721 --> 00:43:27,321
Speaker 2: position where I could park anywhere. My accountant said to

893
00:43:27,401 --> 00:43:30,241
Speaker 2: me one year, many many years ago, parking tickets on

894
00:43:30,321 --> 00:43:32,761
Speaker 2: a tax deduction. But I just used to park on

895
00:43:32,841 --> 00:43:35,881
Speaker 2: footpaths phone to go to that cafe, in that restaurant,

896
00:43:35,921 --> 00:43:39,081
Speaker 2: I just park on the footpath, no respect. Just you know,

897
00:43:39,161 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 2: your head so far up your ass that you think

898
00:43:42,721 --> 00:43:45,241
Speaker 2: it is and everywhere you go. You know, you got

899
00:43:45,281 --> 00:43:49,361
Speaker 2: the girls, You've got the you know, and you've also

900
00:43:49,481 --> 00:43:51,801
Speaker 2: got the time to train every day. You eat right,

901
00:43:51,921 --> 00:43:54,601
Speaker 2: you train right, You look right, You're dressed right. You're

902
00:43:54,601 --> 00:43:57,001
Speaker 2: wearing the juror you know it used to be. No.

903
00:43:57,201 --> 00:43:59,361
Speaker 2: I've been in the jury industry for forty years, so

904
00:43:59,521 --> 00:44:01,921
Speaker 2: now I was wearing Roylexes persicurefully before anyone even knew

905
00:44:01,921 --> 00:44:04,041
Speaker 2: what they were, you know. I mean I was always

906
00:44:04,081 --> 00:44:07,841
Speaker 2: for the best jewelry and the nicest clothes, and it

907
00:44:08,121 --> 00:44:11,161
Speaker 2: had that that swagger that we'd call it, you know,

908
00:44:11,241 --> 00:44:14,601
Speaker 2: because I just make my money. Really, I work hard. Man,

909
00:44:14,641 --> 00:44:16,961
Speaker 2: I'm seventy and I still work hard. Now. I have

910
00:44:17,041 --> 00:44:19,481
Speaker 2: three companies. I work my ass off, and all our

911
00:44:19,521 --> 00:44:22,121
Speaker 2: companies are helping people. That's what I'm doing now. My

912
00:44:23,121 --> 00:44:25,921
Speaker 2: My whole thing today, Niel is to give, you know,

913
00:44:25,961 --> 00:44:28,321
Speaker 2: and Russell say, I just make sure I give a

914
00:44:28,361 --> 00:44:30,361
Speaker 2: little more than I take you and we'll touch on Russell.

915
00:44:30,441 --> 00:44:33,361
Speaker 2: Now that's my saying. That's actually my saying. You know

916
00:44:33,961 --> 00:44:39,361
Speaker 2: Russell's Yeah, it was a good thief. You know, he's

917
00:44:39,401 --> 00:44:42,041
Speaker 2: a good thief. He stopped everything. You know, God, he

918
00:44:42,121 --> 00:44:43,921
Speaker 2: wasn't a good stick up, but he was a good thief.

919
00:44:44,681 --> 00:44:46,521
Speaker 2: I've never seen anyone who piss frey stick up he's

920
00:44:46,521 --> 00:44:48,681
Speaker 2: ever done. You know. He's so funny, and you know,

921
00:44:48,721 --> 00:44:52,401
Speaker 2: I miss him. I miss him. Towards the end when

922
00:44:52,441 --> 00:44:55,241
Speaker 2: he was just before he died, I was having.

923
00:44:56,001 --> 00:44:56,921
Speaker 1: I think I reached out to you.

924
00:44:57,721 --> 00:45:01,241
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think just I could see it was coming.

925
00:45:02,201 --> 00:45:04,321
Speaker 2: I coul see it was coming. You know. His penis

926
00:45:04,481 --> 00:45:07,401
Speaker 2: was fu on his world and he's ego and he

927
00:45:07,521 --> 00:45:10,761
Speaker 2: wanted to go and hang out with people that I said, mate, yeah,

928
00:45:11,521 --> 00:45:13,721
Speaker 2: we'll change in his attitude and what do they bring

929
00:45:13,801 --> 00:45:14,361
Speaker 2: to your table?

930
00:45:14,841 --> 00:45:17,601
Speaker 1: And the way he some of the like if we're

931
00:45:17,601 --> 00:45:19,121
Speaker 1: going to touch on it, I can see that on

932
00:45:19,241 --> 00:45:21,641
Speaker 1: his stories. You could see that he was he was

933
00:45:21,681 --> 00:45:21,921
Speaker 1: on it.

934
00:45:22,961 --> 00:45:24,241
Speaker 2: He was on the gear, you see. He was on

935
00:45:24,321 --> 00:45:28,521
Speaker 2: the gear again. Stone, you're scratching, and I think he was.

936
00:45:28,641 --> 00:45:31,201
Speaker 2: He was poly jugging, getting on the coke, then get

937
00:45:31,241 --> 00:45:32,681
Speaker 2: on the hammer, getting on the cake, get on the hammer,

938
00:45:32,681 --> 00:45:33,601
Speaker 2: you know. And that's really so.

939
00:45:33,681 --> 00:45:35,281
Speaker 1: Why do you think he was trying to tell everyone?

940
00:45:35,761 --> 00:45:39,481
Speaker 1: Is this the way before you as you were an

941
00:45:39,481 --> 00:45:41,721
Speaker 1: addict and you tried to hide a start. Do you

942
00:45:41,761 --> 00:45:43,881
Speaker 1: think he was trying to hide it but also keep

943
00:45:43,921 --> 00:45:44,601
Speaker 1: a clean.

944
00:45:45,081 --> 00:45:49,361
Speaker 2: Oh, he was lying to everybody about his addiction going

945
00:45:49,401 --> 00:45:51,401
Speaker 2: back into using. He was like to everybody. He was.

946
00:45:51,921 --> 00:45:54,201
Speaker 2: He was even like to me. The weekend he died,

947
00:45:54,201 --> 00:45:56,801
Speaker 2: he was supposed to be with me and he brushed me.

948
00:45:56,841 --> 00:45:59,281
Speaker 2: It was the first time he's ever brushed me, first

949
00:45:59,281 --> 00:46:00,761
Speaker 2: time he's ever brushed me. And I was coming down

950
00:46:00,801 --> 00:46:04,001
Speaker 2: to Sydney to go to an inn a convention which

951
00:46:04,081 --> 00:46:07,161
Speaker 2: is a Dragon Elko convention, and he knew I was

952
00:46:07,161 --> 00:46:10,481
Speaker 2: coming down to go to the convention and he rang

953
00:46:10,561 --> 00:46:12,121
Speaker 2: me so oh man, I've got this year, like coming

954
00:46:12,201 --> 00:46:14,321
Speaker 2: up from Melbourne. I I'll catch up with you on

955
00:46:14,441 --> 00:46:17,401
Speaker 2: Friday night at the convention. You're sweet to say somewhere

956
00:46:17,401 --> 00:46:22,321
Speaker 2: else because my brother's day, because usually I just land.

957
00:46:23,401 --> 00:46:25,000
Speaker 2: He didither pick him upt the airport or the coups

958
00:46:25,001 --> 00:46:27,161
Speaker 2: that we left the concierge and let the cuss apartment.

959
00:46:27,681 --> 00:46:29,681
Speaker 2: You know, that was the relationship. I just go there

960
00:46:29,681 --> 00:46:31,801
Speaker 2: and his car was downstairs. I just take his car.

961
00:46:31,881 --> 00:46:35,521
Speaker 2: What do you know that was? You know? But in

962
00:46:35,561 --> 00:46:39,401
Speaker 2: the last three months six months, he started to get

963
00:46:39,441 --> 00:46:44,761
Speaker 2: this really incredible self destructive come back, and you start

964
00:46:44,841 --> 00:46:48,961
Speaker 2: to and he started to talk ship on his note

965
00:46:49,001 --> 00:46:51,721
Speaker 2: and started to talk about jail again. What what do

966
00:46:51,801 --> 00:46:54,121
Speaker 2: you want to talk about jail? Yeah, I'm not proud

967
00:46:54,161 --> 00:46:55,801
Speaker 2: of being in jail. That just meant I was fucking

968
00:46:55,881 --> 00:46:58,281
Speaker 2: wasn't good at what I did. People want to talk

969
00:46:58,281 --> 00:47:00,041
Speaker 2: about how long they didn't jail. When people asked me,

970
00:47:00,041 --> 00:47:03,001
Speaker 2: I go like, I really don't want to remember. I

971
00:47:03,121 --> 00:47:05,761
Speaker 2: don't know. People ask you know, how long are you

972
00:47:05,881 --> 00:47:07,721
Speaker 2: do in jail? And I say, mate, one day was

973
00:47:07,761 --> 00:47:10,881
Speaker 2: too long, one day was too long. I don't think

974
00:47:11,321 --> 00:47:13,241
Speaker 2: what's the best jail you ever been in. I said,

975
00:47:13,241 --> 00:47:16,001
Speaker 2: I've never been a good jail. When that asked me,

976
00:47:16,081 --> 00:47:18,561
Speaker 2: I can always answer the worst jail. What was that

977
00:47:18,641 --> 00:47:22,321
Speaker 2: up here? That's the worst jail. When you think I

978
00:47:22,401 --> 00:47:27,041
Speaker 2: can't stop using drugs, I can't stop. I've only ever

979
00:47:27,121 --> 00:47:30,241
Speaker 2: thought about killing myself once in my whole life. And

980
00:47:30,441 --> 00:47:31,801
Speaker 2: all the time that I've been arrested, and all the

981
00:47:31,841 --> 00:47:34,121
Speaker 2: time I've been in really serious charges and had some

982
00:47:34,361 --> 00:47:37,121
Speaker 2: serious ship going down with people are trying to kill

983
00:47:37,201 --> 00:47:39,161
Speaker 2: me and all that stuff, I've never thought about topping

984
00:47:39,201 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 2: myself in nine anyone. When I got cleaned the first

985
00:47:42,521 --> 00:47:45,361
Speaker 2: time and I left, I so I got drunk and

986
00:47:45,561 --> 00:47:47,841
Speaker 2: got I got arrested them and I was in the cells.

987
00:47:48,361 --> 00:47:50,601
Speaker 2: There's a camera. I was pinched at bell Connon and

988
00:47:50,681 --> 00:47:52,601
Speaker 2: I thought that was my first attempt at recovery. And

989
00:47:52,641 --> 00:47:56,041
Speaker 2: I thought, I can't get clean and I can't keep using.

990
00:47:56,841 --> 00:47:59,121
Speaker 2: And it was a real turning point. I thought, if

991
00:47:59,161 --> 00:48:01,241
Speaker 2: this is what my life is, I'm going to kill myself.

992
00:48:02,161 --> 00:48:05,921
Speaker 2: And a girl that I left the rehab with coming

993
00:48:06,041 --> 00:48:07,481
Speaker 2: this is a true story, come and visit me on

994
00:48:07,561 --> 00:48:10,561
Speaker 2: the Saturday. I got two tuning points while she come

995
00:48:10,561 --> 00:48:13,601
Speaker 2: and visited on the Saturday and said to me, I'm pregnant.

996
00:48:14,361 --> 00:48:17,241
Speaker 2: I was going to kill myself the Saturday afternoon. I

997
00:48:17,361 --> 00:48:18,681
Speaker 2: donly planned it. I was going to hang myself on

998
00:48:18,721 --> 00:48:20,281
Speaker 2: this Sat the avenue because Sat Day was when the

999
00:48:20,321 --> 00:48:23,841
Speaker 2: screw was at there the slackest and they watched the footy,

1000
00:48:24,121 --> 00:48:25,881
Speaker 2: and I was going to hang myself on the Saturday afternoon.

1001
00:48:25,921 --> 00:48:27,241
Speaker 2: She came in the Saturday morning and told me she

1002
00:48:27,361 --> 00:48:31,321
Speaker 2: was pregnant. I didn't know that. I endorsed forty three

1003
00:48:31,361 --> 00:48:34,521
Speaker 2: years of age from that. That saved my life in

1004
00:48:34,641 --> 00:48:38,521
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty five when I relapsed. This is this is

1005
00:48:38,561 --> 00:48:41,521
Speaker 2: the craziest story. I real left in nineoin eighty five

1006
00:48:43,281 --> 00:48:45,921
Speaker 2: and my kids were three years of age, and she

1007
00:48:46,081 --> 00:48:48,161
Speaker 2: wasn't letting me see them, which is thank god. I'm

1008
00:48:48,161 --> 00:48:49,521
Speaker 2: glad she didn't let me see them. Because you know,

1009
00:48:49,561 --> 00:48:51,961
Speaker 2: I was on the heroin and I was and I

1010
00:48:52,041 --> 00:48:57,041
Speaker 2: was on methadone and I had a dream. This is

1011
00:48:57,721 --> 00:48:59,401
Speaker 2: the craziest thing that's ever happened in my whole life.

1012
00:48:59,441 --> 00:49:01,641
Speaker 2: I had a dream. This is a true story. I

1013
00:49:01,801 --> 00:49:05,361
Speaker 2: dreamt that I died, and because you know, I must

1014
00:49:05,361 --> 00:49:07,281
Speaker 2: be our doctors or whatever, I dreamt, I'm going up

1015
00:49:07,321 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 2: I'm floating somewhere. I'm going somewhere and I know I'm dead.

1016
00:49:10,481 --> 00:49:13,921
Speaker 2: I'm going somewhere and I'm going like, fuck, I've got

1017
00:49:14,041 --> 00:49:16,081
Speaker 2: to talk me through this day up. And you know

1018
00:49:16,121 --> 00:49:18,281
Speaker 2: I got there. There was a guy there, Rode Beard.

1019
00:49:18,721 --> 00:49:21,921
Speaker 2: Didn't introduce yourself, you know, you just said to me, Ahi, right,

1020
00:49:22,561 --> 00:49:25,561
Speaker 2: I remember the fear, And I said, listen, you know

1021
00:49:26,161 --> 00:49:29,641
Speaker 2: everyone I shot was a gangster, as our fucking people

1022
00:49:29,641 --> 00:49:30,921
Speaker 2: that were trying to shoot us, you know. And I

1023
00:49:31,041 --> 00:49:34,001
Speaker 2: was justifying I said everything I've ever done, you know,

1024
00:49:34,241 --> 00:49:37,681
Speaker 2: most of the places I robbed were institutions. And he's

1025
00:49:37,721 --> 00:49:40,321
Speaker 2: just smiling the whole time. I'm wrapping off all this stuff,

1026
00:49:40,321 --> 00:49:44,561
Speaker 2: you know, trying to put my defense tohead, and he smiled,

1027
00:49:44,841 --> 00:49:46,601
Speaker 2: and he just looked at me and he said, you

1028
00:49:46,681 --> 00:49:49,241
Speaker 2: don't get it, do you. I just remember the coldness.

1029
00:49:50,081 --> 00:49:52,881
Speaker 2: He said, you committed the greatest sin knowing to man,

1030
00:49:54,081 --> 00:49:59,641
Speaker 2: and I think I'm not. I'm fucked. He said, you

1031
00:49:59,761 --> 00:50:04,520
Speaker 2: wasted the gift of life. And I just fucking went bang.

1032
00:50:05,881 --> 00:50:08,921
Speaker 2: I haven't had a drug since. Wow, So that what

1033
00:50:09,041 --> 00:50:11,161
Speaker 2: I did, I'd wasted the gift of life. That was

1034
00:50:11,201 --> 00:50:14,921
Speaker 2: the greatest crime we can commit. As human beings, waste

1035
00:50:14,921 --> 00:50:17,681
Speaker 2: the gift that we've been given, Whoever your higher power is,

1036
00:50:18,161 --> 00:50:22,281
Speaker 2: whoever that gave us this what we have. The greatest

1037
00:50:22,321 --> 00:50:25,561
Speaker 2: sin we can commit is not to respect that gift

1038
00:50:26,321 --> 00:50:28,561
Speaker 2: and not to carry that gift forward. I really believe

1039
00:50:28,601 --> 00:50:31,681
Speaker 2: that today. My whole job is today based around helping

1040
00:50:31,721 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 2: other people trying not to make the same mistake I made.

1041
00:50:35,601 --> 00:50:38,161
Speaker 2: And if you make the same mistakes, get up, get

1042
00:50:38,241 --> 00:50:40,441
Speaker 2: on with it, you know, because I made I did

1043
00:50:40,521 --> 00:50:42,201
Speaker 2: fuck up. Don't get me wrong. I fuck When I

1044
00:50:42,281 --> 00:50:46,321
Speaker 2: went back to jail in two thousand and two, I

1045
00:50:46,601 --> 00:50:50,641
Speaker 2: hadn't mean to jail since eighty two. It's twenty years.

1046
00:50:51,321 --> 00:50:54,081
Speaker 2: The system had change. Its just thing called subi tech,

1047
00:50:55,041 --> 00:50:57,721
Speaker 2: you know, subox saying they're all using this shit drug

1048
00:50:57,801 --> 00:51:01,241
Speaker 2: called suboxie two dollars tablet nicely, you know, because I'm

1049
00:51:01,241 --> 00:51:04,281
Speaker 2: a pretty outspoken sort of person. You know, I'm not

1050
00:51:04,361 --> 00:51:06,481
Speaker 2: a tough guy. Made, but I don't really find fucking

1051
00:51:06,481 --> 00:51:08,961
Speaker 2: about anybody, you know, because what are you gonna do?

1052
00:51:10,041 --> 00:51:13,281
Speaker 2: What are you gonna do? You're gonna kill me. You're

1053
00:51:13,281 --> 00:51:14,761
Speaker 2: not going to be first to try it, probably gonna

1054
00:51:14,761 --> 00:51:16,961
Speaker 2: be the last. But and now I used to say

1055
00:51:17,081 --> 00:51:18,921
Speaker 2: what you got three period and your don Colliane, you're

1056
00:51:18,961 --> 00:51:21,401
Speaker 2: fucking idiot and they used to hate it. You know,

1057
00:51:21,921 --> 00:51:23,921
Speaker 2: you're fucking sixteen dollars of the pills you want around

1058
00:51:23,921 --> 00:51:26,481
Speaker 2: look like a gangster now, fucking you've got your missus

1059
00:51:26,481 --> 00:51:29,041
Speaker 2: wringing and give into the jail with a fucking three

1060
00:51:29,121 --> 00:51:31,921
Speaker 2: month old kid out there. That's not gangster. You know

1061
00:51:31,961 --> 00:51:35,201
Speaker 2: what gangster is putting food on the table, being having

1062
00:51:35,241 --> 00:51:37,521
Speaker 2: for fucking nighttime to pucked up your kids in the

1063
00:51:37,561 --> 00:51:39,521
Speaker 2: bed and listen and read a book. So do you

1064
00:51:39,561 --> 00:51:41,841
Speaker 2: want to know what a gangster isn't? Because my whole

1065
00:51:41,921 --> 00:51:46,041
Speaker 2: world had changed, my whole beliefs changes, like all my life,

1066
00:51:46,121 --> 00:51:48,241
Speaker 2: I believed I was a gangster. What I was was

1067
00:51:48,321 --> 00:51:51,321
Speaker 2: a scared little boy. I was a scared little boy.

1068
00:51:52,081 --> 00:51:55,721
Speaker 2: And fearful people are the most dangerous. The scareder you are,

1069
00:51:55,921 --> 00:51:59,521
Speaker 2: the more dangerous you are. The less self worth you have,

1070
00:52:00,201 --> 00:52:01,921
Speaker 2: the less you have to lose, the less you have

1071
00:52:02,041 --> 00:52:04,241
Speaker 2: to lose. It's the less you care. And I say

1072
00:52:04,241 --> 00:52:07,161
Speaker 2: it about every relationship. The one who cares the least

1073
00:52:07,281 --> 00:52:10,161
Speaker 2: has the most power, you know. And I didn't care.

1074
00:52:10,601 --> 00:52:13,241
Speaker 2: I wanted to die. I wanted you to kill me

1075
00:52:13,921 --> 00:52:15,441
Speaker 2: because you put me out of my misery because I

1076
00:52:15,481 --> 00:52:18,480
Speaker 2: was living such hell, and my hell was in my head.

1077
00:52:19,321 --> 00:52:20,921
Speaker 2: And so I don't have that hell, you know, because

1078
00:52:20,961 --> 00:52:25,641
Speaker 2: today I realize that everything I do is my choice.

1079
00:52:26,481 --> 00:52:28,921
Speaker 2: Whether I feel good or airs my choice. You can't

1080
00:52:28,921 --> 00:52:31,401
Speaker 2: make me feel anything. You can't make me feel anything.

1081
00:52:31,641 --> 00:52:34,001
Speaker 2: You really can't. You know, you can't make me feel anything.

1082
00:52:34,641 --> 00:52:36,441
Speaker 2: What I choose to do is what you do to

1083
00:52:36,561 --> 00:52:40,921
Speaker 2: me is how I feel. No one can my wife

1084
00:52:40,961 --> 00:52:45,001
Speaker 2: can leave me. I'll be heartbroken, but I'll get over

1085
00:52:47,081 --> 00:52:50,361
Speaker 2: human nature. We are human beings first, We're men second,

1086
00:52:50,881 --> 00:52:53,281
Speaker 2: and I'm an addict third. For many years, I just

1087
00:52:53,481 --> 00:52:56,001
Speaker 2: thought I was an addict. I'm not just an addict.

1088
00:52:56,641 --> 00:52:59,041
Speaker 2: When I was talking to my brother today is a

1089
00:52:59,081 --> 00:53:01,321
Speaker 2: guy I usually grew up, not real brothers. But we've

1090
00:53:01,441 --> 00:53:04,001
Speaker 2: been together for forty five years, and we're both playing.

1091
00:53:04,281 --> 00:53:07,481
Speaker 2: We're both successful in our lives, both the beautiful families.

1092
00:53:08,281 --> 00:53:11,041
Speaker 2: You know. I'm laying his seven million dollar waterfront mansion.

1093
00:53:11,161 --> 00:53:13,041
Speaker 2: This morning, we're having said he's having to smoke. I

1094
00:53:13,081 --> 00:53:15,001
Speaker 2: don't smoke. He's having a smoke and I went bagging

1095
00:53:15,041 --> 00:53:18,321
Speaker 2: each other and he said, you know, fucking forty five

1096
00:53:18,401 --> 00:53:22,000
Speaker 2: years ago, we were steal on TV's in Bondou Beach.

1097
00:53:22,921 --> 00:53:25,441
Speaker 2: He said, you know, the choices we made them were

1098
00:53:25,481 --> 00:53:29,041
Speaker 2: really bad. He said, the choices we make today are

1099
00:53:29,081 --> 00:53:35,161
Speaker 2: pretty good. He said, what changed? I said, maybe we

1100
00:53:35,321 --> 00:53:38,401
Speaker 2: grew up? He said, said you're still a fucking kid.

1101
00:53:38,481 --> 00:53:43,241
Speaker 2: When because I act pretty stupid sometimes, he said, I'll

1102
00:53:43,241 --> 00:53:45,281
Speaker 2: tell you what change made. He said, we start to

1103
00:53:45,441 --> 00:53:49,201
Speaker 2: like ourselves. He said, we start to like ourselves. You know,

1104
00:53:50,321 --> 00:53:52,321
Speaker 2: he's been clean longer than me. He's actually one who

1105
00:53:53,001 --> 00:53:54,241
Speaker 2: used to come up the cross and say to me

1106
00:53:54,281 --> 00:53:56,361
Speaker 2: all the time he had enough when I relapsed in

1107
00:53:56,441 --> 00:53:59,881
Speaker 2: eighty five and he was devastated. His only guy I

1108
00:54:00,041 --> 00:54:02,481
Speaker 2: used with that got clean. He'd come up in his

1109
00:54:02,561 --> 00:54:04,041
Speaker 2: states when he had the New States, when all that,

1110
00:54:04,121 --> 00:54:06,641
Speaker 2: you know, and he pull up. He had enough yet, mate,

1111
00:54:07,241 --> 00:54:11,041
Speaker 2: You say see you next week. He drive away. Then

1112
00:54:11,281 --> 00:54:13,201
Speaker 2: some junk you'd run down the back street of Caller

1113
00:54:13,241 --> 00:54:15,721
Speaker 2: Street or somewhere you may have that flash cars up

1114
00:54:15,761 --> 00:54:17,361
Speaker 2: the fucking main street looking for you. And I go

1115
00:54:17,441 --> 00:54:18,721
Speaker 2: up there and you say, ye had enough yet, mate,

1116
00:54:18,721 --> 00:54:22,081
Speaker 2: and go no, you say you drive away. Then he

1117
00:54:22,161 --> 00:54:23,641
Speaker 2: said he's done the six weeks train. He come out

1118
00:54:23,641 --> 00:54:24,841
Speaker 2: in the six week he said, you had nothing to do.

1119
00:54:24,921 --> 00:54:27,761
Speaker 2: He said, get your tell you to detox. Yeah, I

1120
00:54:27,801 --> 00:54:29,801
Speaker 2: mean for six weeks you backed up every week you

1121
00:54:29,841 --> 00:54:32,321
Speaker 2: had enough? Yet brother, Wow, say no, you say see

1122
00:54:32,361 --> 00:54:34,641
Speaker 2: you ladda. You never tried to force it on me never,

1123
00:54:35,401 --> 00:54:39,961
Speaker 2: you know. And they're the things that kept me alive.

1124
00:54:40,081 --> 00:54:41,561
Speaker 2: They are the things that I grew up in his

1125
00:54:41,681 --> 00:54:44,121
Speaker 2: mom's house. Mum's ninety eight. That's one of those. I

1126
00:54:44,201 --> 00:54:46,041
Speaker 2: come down this weekend too. When you said this week

1127
00:54:46,041 --> 00:54:47,841
Speaker 2: and I said, yeah, it gave me excuse to come

1128
00:54:47,881 --> 00:54:52,281
Speaker 2: down and see your mom. She's ninety eight. His father

1129
00:54:52,481 --> 00:54:55,921
Speaker 2: worked two jobs. And I start to learn what being

1130
00:54:55,961 --> 00:54:59,801
Speaker 2: your father was, what being a son was, what being

1131
00:54:59,841 --> 00:55:02,121
Speaker 2: a brother was. Then I learned how to be a

1132
00:55:02,241 --> 00:55:05,121
Speaker 2: dad because I love my kids. I really I've a

1133
00:55:05,201 --> 00:55:08,281
Speaker 2: nine year old and five year old. You know, I remarried.

1134
00:55:08,361 --> 00:55:14,721
Speaker 2: My wife's a couple of months younger than me. And yeah,

1135
00:55:14,921 --> 00:55:16,321
Speaker 2: when I say it all the time, it's hard being

1136
00:55:16,361 --> 00:55:19,441
Speaker 2: a trophy husband, it's really you know, Like, mate, you know,

1137
00:55:19,521 --> 00:55:21,601
Speaker 2: I'm blessed. I really am blessed, and I believe it's

1138
00:55:21,601 --> 00:55:23,601
Speaker 2: because of what I do, not what I've done.

1139
00:55:26,961 --> 00:55:28,881
Speaker 1: That wraps apart one of my interviews with Runnisher. With

1140
00:55:29,801 --> 00:55:33,241
Speaker 1: next week we hear more underworld stories and what he

1141
00:55:33,361 --> 00:55:34,281
Speaker 1: is doing to help people

1142
00:55:42,161 --> 00:55:42,201
Speaker 2: M