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Speaker 1: Ida Buttrose, Welcome to straight Talk.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: It's such an honor for me, seriously to be sitting

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Speaker 1: here in front of you, to have someone like you

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Speaker 1: on my podcast. And I've had some great guests on

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Speaker 1: my podcast, but Ida Buttrose is going to go down

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Speaker 1: as one of the great ones.

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Speaker 2: Well, I hope.

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Speaker 1: So I'm definitely from my point of view, from my

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Speaker 1: experienced point of view, definitely, And actually not too long ago,

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Speaker 1: only a few months ago, John Laws was sitting opposite

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Speaker 1: me in the same podcast. And of course we've lost

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Speaker 1: Lawsy this weekend. This is a Monday, and we lost

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Speaker 1: John yesterday and another acquaintance both of ours, Graham Richardson,

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Speaker 1: also passed away on the weekend. How do you feel

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Speaker 1: about John Laws?

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Speaker 2: And Well, I feel very sad about John because I

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Speaker 2: knew him well, and I was at two yui when

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Speaker 2: he was at two yui, and in fact he was

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Speaker 2: responsible for me going into radio in the first place.

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Speaker 2: So I was editor in chief of the two telegraphs

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Speaker 2: here in Sydney and John rang and said ask me

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Speaker 2: if i'd fill in for him. He had to go

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Speaker 2: and have a tonsil of an operation on his throat,

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Speaker 2: And I said to him. I remember saying to him,

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Speaker 2: are you sure that I'd be okay? Because I hadn't

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Speaker 2: thought of radio? And he said, you'll be fine, And

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Speaker 2: so I filled in fim for six weeks, and when

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Speaker 2: he returned too, he offered me the afternoon show. That's

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Speaker 2: how I got That's how I got started. It hadn't

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Speaker 2: been for John, I never would have thought of radio.

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Speaker 1: Had you done radio at all?

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Speaker 2: No? No, I'm just a print person.

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Speaker 1: Just went in cold.

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Speaker 2: I went in cold.

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Speaker 1: Would I give you a script or something there's something

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Speaker 1: to talk to?

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Speaker 2: No, there's no scripts in radio.

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Speaker 1: No, So how did you Where did you get that

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Speaker 1: confidence from to be able to do that type of thing?

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Speaker 1: As far as I remember, you've always been confident. But

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Speaker 1: where do you get that from?

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Speaker 2: My brothers? All three of them used to say that

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Speaker 2: I owe my success to them. So I think I

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Speaker 2: got the oomph that I have competitive lists that I

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Speaker 2: have from my brothers. I do think they were helpful.

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Speaker 1: Do you mind if I go back to that period

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Speaker 1: with your brothers? Where did you grow up.

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Speaker 2: In Pasley Bay which is in four clues Passly Bay?

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Speaker 1: And you had three brothers. Do you have a sister

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Speaker 1: as well?

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Speaker 2: No? Just three brothers and me youngest. I'm the second

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Speaker 2: some second eldest.

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Speaker 1: Second oldest. Yeah, and your parents what were they doing

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Speaker 1: at the time.

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Speaker 2: Mom used to work in public relations and dad was

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Speaker 2: a journalist. He probably was at the ABC, always working

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Speaker 2: for Frank Packer.

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Speaker 1: So your dad was a journalist. So is that where

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Speaker 1: you got your journalist?

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Speaker 2: All my parents' friends were journalists, artists, photographers. I used

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Speaker 2: to look at them as you used to look at parents' parties,

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Speaker 2: and I think, these people know how to live. They

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Speaker 2: all have views, they have a you know, they have

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Speaker 2: a zest for life. I thought they must. They're wonderful.

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Speaker 2: And my father was my hero, and so I thought,

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Speaker 2: and I loved writing, so it was just natural for

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Speaker 2: me to become a journalist.

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Speaker 1: So when you're a young person, and I remember having

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Speaker 1: sort of similar experiences but with my parents. But when

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Speaker 1: you're a young person and you're at a party they

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Speaker 1: might be holding and they have their friends over, and

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Speaker 1: you might have some families coming along to that. And

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Speaker 1: little kids were young kids, teenagers even that for that matter,

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Speaker 1: watching observing their parents, observing the music, observing the food,

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Speaker 1: observing the interactions. Maybe they have a little bit of

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Speaker 1: a dance or something like that. What are the impressions

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Speaker 1: that you still have in your mind from those days

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Speaker 1: when you watch your parents, let's call it entertaining and

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Speaker 1: the types of people that are entertained.

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Speaker 2: They had fun, they had fun, they enjoyed each other's companies,

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Speaker 2: so they just knew how to live.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but do you think today that that's are missing?

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Speaker 2: Well? I don't think people have the sort of parties

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Speaker 2: that my parents used to have. There seems to be

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Speaker 2: a lack of asking people over for dinner in modern Australia.

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Speaker 2: I think we all go to restaurants. That's sweeping. That's

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Speaker 2: a very generalization, isn't that. But I don't think. I

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Speaker 2: don't think older people, which I classify my parents as

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Speaker 2: entertain at home anymore.

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Speaker 1: Is it because we didn't have choices back then? Though

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Speaker 1: we didn't have many restaurants to go to, all the

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Speaker 1: accessibility of restaurants like we do today, or the or

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Speaker 1: even social media making them famous.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know what it is. I

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Speaker 2: think we've just lost contact with one another. I think

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Speaker 2: it's a general thing. You know, you can live in

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Speaker 2: a suburban, you can walk in the morning and you

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Speaker 2: can say hello to people and they don't say hello back,

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Speaker 2: whereas when I was a kid, people are ours for

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Speaker 2: it were kids and dogs and everybody said hello. Everybody

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Speaker 2: used to call in to each other.

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Speaker 1: And just so I could just make a comment in

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Speaker 1: relation to you living in Passi Bay, which is an

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Speaker 1: inval clues if you go back to when you were

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Speaker 1: a kid, and it's not that long ago, Vork Clues

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Speaker 1: was not. The walk was not as it is today.

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Speaker 1: It was a long way from everywhere.

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Speaker 2: It was a long way from anywhere. And my mother

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Speaker 2: used to tell me that harbourside living lost its appeal

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Speaker 2: once the Japanese submarines came into Sydney Harbor during World

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Speaker 2: War Two, and so people didn't want to live near

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Speaker 2: the harbor because the threat of invasion, I suppose. So

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Speaker 2: that's when Burwood and Strathfield and Pimble and Kolara became popular.

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Speaker 2: And it was I think it was probably towards the

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Speaker 2: end of the fifties that Vork Clues suddenly became desirable again.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I remember, because I remember my mother. My mother

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Speaker 1: was a Mossman and she said to me Moslim was

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Speaker 1: preferred to Vorclus because it was closer to the city,

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Speaker 1: much closer to the city. You had the Harbor Bridge,

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Speaker 1: of course, and Vorclus was not a desired environment in

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Speaker 1: terms of being too far away in terms of distance

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Speaker 1: from everything.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a bit of a hike.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So we had to get a small bus from Passy

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Speaker 2: Bay to Rose Bay and then you get the tram

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Speaker 2: to town. Yeah, so there were two modes of transport

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Speaker 2: you had to get.

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Speaker 1: So IDAs you know, a young woman in her twenties,

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Speaker 1: did you go to a university or someone like that

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Speaker 1: to learn journalism or you just went straight into it?

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Speaker 1: How did it straight?

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Speaker 2: Well, university degrees were not encouraged by journalists in those days.

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Speaker 2: In fact, university graduates are viewed with some kind of suspicion.

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Speaker 2: You know, you learnt on the job, and they were

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Speaker 2: lectures that you had to attend when you were training.

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Speaker 2: You had to have shorthanded typing. But I'd gone to

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Speaker 2: business college when I left school and I got those skills.

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Speaker 2: And that's the way it was. You went out with

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Speaker 2: senior journalists. You learnt on the job.

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Speaker 1: Your first job, though, who and how did you get it?

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Speaker 1: Who was it with and how did you get it?

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Speaker 2: Oh? My first job was a copy girl on the

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Speaker 2: Australian Women's Weekly.

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Speaker 1: What is a copy girl?

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Speaker 2: It's a very low way to start. It's the lowest

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Speaker 2: way you can start. I think you run messages and

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Speaker 2: you make tea and coffee. So I used to make

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Speaker 2: tea and coffee for forty people, and I was marked

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Speaker 2: out as a copy girl to watch. I learned years

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Speaker 2: later when I was editor, because I'd bought a tea

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Speaker 2: towel in to wipe up the teacups and mugs, and

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Speaker 2: no copy girl or boy had ever thought to do

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Speaker 2: that before. So you never know when you're making a

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Speaker 2: good first impression, but I certainly did unbeknowing to make

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Speaker 2: to me, is that.

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Speaker 1: Something that you might have learn from your upbringing with

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Speaker 1: your family, with your parents?

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Speaker 2: Well, it's just practical. I mean, how do you You

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Speaker 2: can't just keep putting dripping cups on the shelves, can you.

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Speaker 2: It's just a practical thing to do. And I think

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Speaker 2: I am very practical.

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Speaker 1: And they probably were any dishwashers at the time, which

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Speaker 1: where they were drying it your.

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Speaker 2: And so Frank wouldn't have given us a dishwasher. He

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Speaker 2: ran a mean lean organization.

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Speaker 1: Is that right? Which almost a frank packer.

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Speaker 2: You had. You had, that's right, the boss of Consolidated Press,

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Speaker 2: which owned the Women's Weekly and the two telegraphs, and

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Speaker 2: you had to if you wanted a new Biro, for instance,

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Speaker 2: you had to send back the dead Biro. If you

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Speaker 2: didn't send back the dead Borro, you didn't get a

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Speaker 2: new Biro.

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Speaker 1: You serious, So they they wanted to check the ink

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Speaker 1: in the.

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Speaker 2: You wanted to make sure that it was dead.

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Speaker 1: Well that I quite like that. This sounds crazy, but

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Speaker 1: I quite like that. That's that's not a bad discipline,

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Speaker 1: especially now that you're you're retelling that story. But the

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Speaker 1: fact that it was your retelling, it must have been

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Speaker 1: actually sunk into you during that period. No one must have.

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Speaker 1: And he probably didn't care that much about it, but

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Speaker 1: he did care about it then that he wanted that

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Speaker 1: to be the sort of sense in the joint. Let's

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Speaker 1: be frugal, let's be you know, let's not spend money

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Speaker 1: when we don't need to spend money. And I quite

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Speaker 1: like that.

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Speaker 2: Well, sometimes on the third floor where the general staff was,

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Speaker 2: they had to sit on crates that weren't enough chairs.

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Speaker 2: No one complained, and that's the way.

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Speaker 1: It was was that up It's not up a Park

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Speaker 1: Street with our now the same building? Yes, well where

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Speaker 1: they were, sorry where they were? Yeah? Yeah, oh wow,

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Speaker 1: So that's crazy. So so you were working for so

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Speaker 1: Frank Packet. You worked for Consolidate Press Holdings Limited. I

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Speaker 1: think it was probably called the Time You're a copy Girl.

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Speaker 1: Just give it a quick thumbnail sketch. How you got

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Speaker 1: from there too be ultimately.

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Speaker 2: Well, the Telegraph Telegraph Women's pages was very close to

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Speaker 2: the Women's Weekly, and so the Women's that are to

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Speaker 2: I was looking for a new secretary, and because I

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Speaker 2: had shorthanded typing, I applied for that job and I

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Speaker 2: got it. But my main reason for going there was

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Speaker 2: to get closer to my goal or becoming a journalist.

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Speaker 2: So I used to come in on weekends and go

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Speaker 2: out with senior journalists. I would write paragraphs and submit

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Speaker 2: them to the editor and uninvited. Yes, wow, So I

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Speaker 2: think I drove them mad with my enthusiasm. So by

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Speaker 2: the time I was sixteen, they offered me a connection,

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Speaker 2: which was very early to get it, but I was

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Speaker 2: on my way.

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Speaker 1: We used that's pretty determined for a young person midl fema.

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Speaker 1: But that's a pretty determined person, like.

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Speaker 2: I'm very determined, haven't you noticed?

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Speaker 1: I have? Why know that? But better? Were you always

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Speaker 1: had that as a kid too? Was that a hallmark

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Speaker 1: of you?

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Speaker 2: Well? When I got married at twenty one, I remember

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Speaker 2: Dad saying to my husband, to be you're marrying a

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Speaker 2: very independent woman. And I think Dad was warning him

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Speaker 2: that I was an independent woman, and I was a

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Speaker 2: determined woman.

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Speaker 1: Consciously, were you consciously independent as a woman, were you

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Speaker 1: consciously thinking to yourself?

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Speaker 2: No, I was a survival. I think it was survival.

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Speaker 2: My parents used to brawl a lot, so I felt

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Speaker 2: I felt the best way to look after me was

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Speaker 2: to be independent and get myself a job and earn

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Speaker 2: money and look after myself. And that's what I did

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Speaker 2: at fifteen.

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Speaker 1: Can do you remember when and who was it that

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Speaker 1: said to you, would you like the editor's job?

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Speaker 2: No? I can't. I can't remember when I went overseas

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Speaker 2: the first time I went down to say goodbye Sir Frank.

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Speaker 2: But now I was great, I was a greater journalist,

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Speaker 2: and I was women's editor of the two telegraphs. And

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Speaker 2: I went down to say goodbye to Sir Frank, and

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Speaker 2: he said he hoped i'd come back because he had

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Speaker 2: me in mind for the editorship of the Australian Wan's Weekly,

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Speaker 2: and that became my goal.

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Speaker 1: What do you mean He put.

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Speaker 2: The thought in my head and I thought it's possible.

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Speaker 2: I'd like that. I'd like that. I want to run

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Speaker 2: the Weekly. When it was a weekly, it was the

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Speaker 2: mightiest magazine in the world. It's lost a bit of

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Speaker 2: its edge now because it's a monthly and the bean

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Speaker 2: counters have got in and there stream they're screwing up

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Speaker 2: the budgets. So so. But I worked in magazines in

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Speaker 2: their heyday, the glory days. It was fantastic and the

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Speaker 2: Weekly was a fantastic magazine to edit.

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Speaker 1: So I think it would be good, especially for our

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Speaker 1: younger audience too. Give us a bit of a picture.

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Speaker 1: What do you mean by the heyday of magazines, because

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Speaker 1: a lot of young people don't even ever see magazines.

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Speaker 1: They wouldn't see a magazine the magazine's Australian magazine scene

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Speaker 1: was I don't know about competed to the rest of

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Speaker 1: w For me, anyway, as a young person was pretty

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Speaker 1: fall and I had a girlfriend. She would be reading

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Speaker 1: Cleo and cosmopolit and Vogue and Women's Weekly, and that

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Speaker 1: was my mum would always had Women's Weekly. Like maybe

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Speaker 1: you could painted picture as to why it was one

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Speaker 1: of the best.

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Speaker 2: Well, I always thought that women regarded a magazine as

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Speaker 2: a friend, so I think they thought of the Weekly

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Speaker 2: as a friend and everybody. There were so many magazines.

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Speaker 2: There were magazines for teenagers, magazines for older than that,

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Speaker 2: magazines for older than that. The Weekly was for all

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Speaker 2: women fourteen and over, and it used to have forty

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Speaker 2: five percent of all women fourteen and over in Australia

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Speaker 2: in this readership. Wow, yes, I know it was very powerful.

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Speaker 2: It went into one of four homes. But you know,

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Speaker 2: then we saw gaps in the market. How Cleo came

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Speaker 2: about and the Australian version of Cosmopolitan. You know, new

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Speaker 2: magazines were launched to fill the gaps. Everybody had a magazine.

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Speaker 2: You see girls reading them on the bus, on the tram,

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Speaker 2: on the train.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: It was and advertisers loved them, so they made a

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Speaker 2: lot of money. We made a lot of money out

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Speaker 2: of the Weekly. We made a lot of money out

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Speaker 2: of Clear, We made a lot of money out of

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Speaker 2: one shots. One shots are specialized editions of certain aspects

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Speaker 2: of magazines. So for instance, Chinese Cooking Class Cookbook, we

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Speaker 2: couldn't print enough of that. Everybody loved it, Dinner Party Cookbook,

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Speaker 2: Beautiful Australia. The weekly used to run full page pictures

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Speaker 2: of Australian scenes, and so we produced Beautiful Australia in

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Speaker 2: a one shot and it's sold like hotcakes.

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Speaker 1: So as an editor, what do you What is the

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Speaker 1: editor's role in those environments? I mean you're not writing

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Speaker 1: the articles. You may, right and arcaly head, but what

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Speaker 1: is the editor's role? Like you say, on a weekly basis,

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Speaker 1: what would you do when you've got them all in

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Speaker 1: the office on a Monday morning and you've got them

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Speaker 1: all set everyone around the table.

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Speaker 2: What it is you discuss stories and you see what

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Speaker 2: everybody was doing. You work six weeks ahead on six

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Speaker 2: issues at a time, and you'd be across the editorials.

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Speaker 2: A magazine is a balanced thing. You can't have too

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Speaker 2: much humor, you can't have too much sadness. You've got

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Speaker 2: to have a mix of it, a mix of it.

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Speaker 2: It's all to do with the balance, and that's skill

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Speaker 2: of the editor. So you then you help design the magazine.

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Speaker 2: The artists hadn't come into their own by that point.

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Speaker 2: So the editor used to do a lot of a

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Speaker 2: lot of the planning in the design sense, and you'd

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Speaker 2: work out where things would go. You start with nothing,

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Speaker 2: and then you start to fill the pages up, and

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Speaker 2: that includes advertising, and then you look at it and

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Speaker 2: you think it's missing. It's missing an emotion. I think

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Speaker 2: we need to challenge them, so you drop something else

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Speaker 2: in and then you've got to choose the cover. And

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Speaker 2: the cover is always difficult because it's it's got to

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Speaker 2: compel people to pick it up. And so I used

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Speaker 2: to walk up and down looking at the pictures that

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Speaker 2: I might use, thinking is it saying you need me?

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Speaker 2: Is it saying by me? Is it saying pick me up?

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Speaker 2: And if it didn't, it didn't make the cover.

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Speaker 1: The cover it seems to me to be one of

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Speaker 1: the most important parts of it, though in the headline.

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Speaker 2: Well, the color. The color is important. You can you

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Speaker 2: can make a mistake with color. You can. I once

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Speaker 2: used yellow. Don't use yellow, that's not good. But clear blue,

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Speaker 2: scion as we call, or magenta, the really right pink red.

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Speaker 2: Those sorts of colors they grab you. You can't go

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Speaker 2: by it. But the trick is to make the cover

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Speaker 2: follow people, So it's all to do with the position

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Speaker 2: of a person's eyes as well.

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Speaker 1: How do you mean to follow people? How do you mean?

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Speaker 2: Well, you just know that what you're looking for, it's

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Speaker 2: got to you look back and you think, yes, it's

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Speaker 2: still with me. It's still with me.

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Speaker 1: It follows you as you walk past.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it follows.

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Speaker 1: That's interesting because of those days people would have bought

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Speaker 1: a lot of magazines out of newsagents, which well, it

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Speaker 1: was very competitive.

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Speaker 2: The Woman's Day, the Women's Weekly, a new idea. We

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Speaker 2: were fiercely competitive. We always try to outdo the other one.

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Speaker 1: So so just as a women's weekly was good CPH

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Speaker 1: Women's Day, who was that?

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Speaker 2: That was?

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Speaker 1: God, I don't know any but it was a competitor

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Speaker 1: in Fairfax, fair fact done that way a new idea.

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Speaker 1: Who was that? Murdoch? Right, So the three of you

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Speaker 1: are all competing for the pretty much the same demographic

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Speaker 1: and obviously.

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Speaker 2: The same thing. Yes, food, you know, we all personalities,

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Speaker 2: emotional pieces, food, books, you know, we all a similar mix.

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Speaker 2: But I think the weekly did it better.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that I've always wanted to ask somebody,

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Speaker 1: and I'm glad you're here because I'm going to get

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Speaker 1: that butt you to ask you. This is when I

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Speaker 1: was about seventeen eighteen. My girlfriend used to get at

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Speaker 1: the time, used to get the Clear magazine, and she

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Speaker 1: always wanted me to complete these quizzes about partner, what

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Speaker 1: you know about your partner topic thing you know? And

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Speaker 1: many years since I've thought about and I thought, who

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Speaker 1: was the person who got this? Because it was very

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Speaker 1: clever like her and all her friends were like wedded

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Speaker 1: to this stuff and they were testing their boyfriends with

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Speaker 1: a series of questions and they give you like a

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Speaker 1: compatibility score down the bottom, right down the end. Do

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Speaker 1: you ever remember where where that idea came from?

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Speaker 2: They used to turn that somebody used to churn them out,

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Speaker 2: and you know, we we'd put it. It's in the mix,

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Speaker 2: in the mix of the editorial. You think we'll drop

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Speaker 2: one of these in because women are always trying to

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Speaker 2: work out what the bloke in that life is like. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and so if you're a younger woman and you think

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Speaker 2: you're falling in love, you've just got to make sure

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Speaker 2: you're compatible with suckers. For those sorts of things. Women

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Speaker 2: are suckers fellows.

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Speaker 1: So you're sort of like going to be a bit

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Speaker 1: of a semi psychologist in some respects, because like you've

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Speaker 1: got to know what was your biggest audience or biggest Yes.

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Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, it doesn't really

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Speaker 2: matter what you score in the quiz. If you're in love,

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Speaker 2: you're in love.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But like all my mates used to tell me the

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Speaker 1: same thing. We saw sort of have a laugh about

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Speaker 1: it because they'd all say, oh, I had to go

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Speaker 1: through that Cleo compatibility thing, and you know, like a

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Speaker 1: seven and an eight year old, it's it's it's I

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Speaker 1: think people too are curious as to well, here's someone's

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Speaker 1: giving me this opportunity to actually go into Mark's head

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Speaker 1: and find out what he actually thinks about me, and

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Speaker 1: to see whether or not we are we have some

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Speaker 1: sort of similar likes and and I used to think

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Speaker 1: to myself at the time, it's a very good way

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Speaker 1: of something. A magazine she would buy as soon as

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Speaker 1: that and that would come out of like every three months,

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Speaker 1: one of those like you sort of just roll it

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Speaker 1: out of it three months, And I did the same quiz.

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Speaker 1: I felt like at least six or seven times I

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Speaker 1: actually ended up marrying her and divorcing her and it

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Speaker 1: didn't work out. They well, obviously the compatibility unless I

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Speaker 1: changed was quite potentially, quite quite a chance. So after

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Speaker 1: after leaving editorial at Women's Weekly, where did you go

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Speaker 1: after that? What was the next move?

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Speaker 2: Well? I started clear before I went to the Week Clear,

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Speaker 2: so clear was the most stepping stone to the week

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Speaker 2: clear right. And then Rupert rang ruber Grang and asked

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Speaker 2: me to lunch, and he offered me the job of

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Speaker 2: editor in chief of the Daily and Sunday Telegraphs, which

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Speaker 2: Sir Frank had originally owned, and they were the papers

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Speaker 2: on which I trained. And Rupert also offered me a

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Speaker 2: directorship of News Limited. They'd never had a woman before,

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Speaker 2: and he offered me a trip to London for Channel ten,

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Speaker 2: which he then owned, to cover the wedding of Charles

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Speaker 2: and Dye. Well, it was such a grab bag of

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Speaker 2: wonderful things, and I thought, to be editor in chief

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Speaker 2: of the papers on which I trained, that would be

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Speaker 2: that would be quite something. So I accepted his offer.

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Speaker 1: Who was running CBH was a kerry running Consolidated Press

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Speaker 1: Holdings or Sir Frank.

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Speaker 2: No, Sir Frank had died.

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Speaker 1: Frank died.

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Speaker 2: He died about two years before we No, he must

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Speaker 2: have been around when it started. Claim just think he

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Speaker 2: died around about the time we launched clear So.

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Speaker 1: And then when you got the offer from Rupert, was

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Speaker 1: carry in charge of.

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Speaker 2: The magazines so and he wasn't happy.

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Speaker 1: I was going to say no. He was having business

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Speaker 1: for a long time, something like that. Going to Rupert

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Speaker 1: would have been.

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Speaker 2: But the thing was, I felt that I was looking

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Speaker 2: for a new challenge. And if you think back that

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Speaker 2: I'd achieved a great deal and I was still very young.

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Speaker 2: I was only I was thinking I was thirty eight

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Speaker 2: when I accepted Ruper's offer. So I wanted to do more.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to challenge myself more. And every time someone

436
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Speaker 2: offered me something, Carrie said no because he wanted me

437
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Speaker 2: to stay running the Women's Weekly. And I felt that

438
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Speaker 2: I could run the Women's Weekly but still do more.

439
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:57,200
Speaker 2: So somebody suggested I could host the Today Show. Kerrie

440
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Speaker 2: said no. Then it was sixty minutes Carri no. Then

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Speaker 2: Shirley Conran wanted me to edit and wanted me to

442
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,880
Speaker 2: write the Australian version of her book, which I think

443
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,640
Speaker 2: was called every Woman. It's such a long time ago.

444
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,199
Speaker 2: Carrie said no. Every time someone offered me something, he

445
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:20,520
Speaker 2: said no. So I was feeling frustrated and searching for

446
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:25,359
Speaker 2: this new challenge when Rupert came along, and so I was.

447
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,040
Speaker 2: I was ripe for an offer, and I took it.

448
00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 1: Do you remember the conversation with Kerrie when you said

449
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:33,440
Speaker 1: going to take this off?

450
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:36,439
Speaker 2: He was fine, He was fine to my face, but

451
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:41,440
Speaker 2: I've told after I left he went ballistic as only

452
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 2: he can.

453
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:43,919
Speaker 1: As Margaret, there would have been better not to be

454
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:50,040
Speaker 1: there between the two Rupert and Kerry. Of course, RUP's

455
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,880
Speaker 1: so alive and Kry's not, so maybe this could help

456
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:56,199
Speaker 1: form your answer. But was there one more charming than

457
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:56,480
Speaker 1: the other?

458
00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 2: Do you think, oh, Carrie? Carrie had a great charm,

459
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:05,360
Speaker 2: and he had a great curiosity and here a wonderful

460
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:08,199
Speaker 2: sense of humor. I'm sure Rupert has all these things,

461
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:11,360
Speaker 2: but they were never as apparent as they were with Carrie.

462
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 1: That's interesting, and Carrie, I think was I've only met

463
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:17,880
Speaker 1: Ruper a few times, but Carrie was always very charming

464
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,440
Speaker 1: and warm. I felt, well, sometimes.

465
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,199
Speaker 2: Everybody liked working for him because you know, it's a

466
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:25,160
Speaker 2: very happy time.

467
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:27,160
Speaker 1: He was interested in what you did, too.

468
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,160
Speaker 2: Oh, he was curious about what we did. All men

469
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 2: were curious about what we did because women were changing,

470
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 2: women's operation was coming along, and nobody quite knew where

471
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,639
Speaker 2: we were all headed. We just know that the world

472
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:45,440
Speaker 2: was changing and women were changing dramatically, and so men

473
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,119
Speaker 2: were very interested. But Carrie used to come along and

474
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 2: talk to the fashion editor, a great girl called Rosina

475
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,359
Speaker 2: at Casey, and she'd have clothes out on the racks

476
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 2: in her room, and Carrie would say, do you think

477
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:02,160
Speaker 2: women will really wear that? Yes, mister Packer, but well

478
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,959
Speaker 2: they like it, Yes, of course they will, mister Packer.

479
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 2: So things I fad. He couldn't believe this new progressive

480
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:10,920
Speaker 2: woman that we said clear was for.

481
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:16,400
Speaker 1: It's funny or during the seventies and eighties, probably more

482
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 1: so the seventies, I were not. One of the things

483
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:24,919
Speaker 1: I had to do at university is in my degree

484
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:30,119
Speaker 1: is I had to do a subject called women in Society.

485
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,920
Speaker 1: It became a like the university said, well, it was

486
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 1: trying to be progressive and just don't want to turn

487
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:41,400
Speaker 1: out young lawyers, etc. Who don't know anything about anything

488
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 1: else other than the law. So you had to choose

489
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 1: some subjects. And one of the ones I chose I

490
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 1: had to choose I had the choice of was called

491
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:54,680
Speaker 1: Women's Society and anyway, our lecturer was doctor Anne Summers, Yes,

492
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 1: and had written a book called I Never Forget It

493
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:00,679
Speaker 1: now that I'm sitting here talking to it. It was

494
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:04,280
Speaker 1: called Damn, Damn to Hours and God's Police, and it

495
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:06,959
Speaker 1: was during the you know, the rise, let's call it,

496
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 1: quite a sharp rise of feminism in the world, particularly

497
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:16,440
Speaker 1: here in Australia and here Australia as well. And I

498
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,439
Speaker 1: was sort of confronted by by the fact that I

499
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 1: had to read this book and sit an exam on it.

500
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:25,680
Speaker 1: And but probably more the more, the more the title

501
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 1: it actually got me. And but after I read it,

502
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 1: I sort of it made sense because I kept thinking

503
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 1: my mother's Irish, very strong woman, and I could see

504
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 1: my mum in there as part of the theme. And

505
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 1: my mum was really tough, but not in a hard way,

506
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 1: but just a strong woman. And I got it. And

507
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 1: many years later I was asked by Bobcaster to join

508
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 1: the board to become a trustee of the Powerhouse Museum,

509
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 1: and which I did, and Anne was on the board

510
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 1: and I never really knew, I just knew it was

511
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 1: a lecturer. But then I got to know her a

512
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 1: little bit, and she was a writer at the Sidney

513
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 1: Morning Here all the time, and I found it's amazing

514
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:10,400
Speaker 1: how you have this view of people write something like that.

515
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 1: She was the most charming, lovely person, so nice for

516
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:18,920
Speaker 1: me to sit down and talk to her, like as

517
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:23,359
Speaker 1: a trustee of the Powerhouse Museum. She was interested, well educated,

518
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 1: had obviously had opinions on everything, but it was a

519
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 1: really great conversation to have with her. How much during

520
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 1: those periods did other people influence your view to the

521
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 1: sense you're running women's magazines especially and then later on

522
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 1: at the Telegraph influenced your views on how a woman

523
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,959
Speaker 1: should be represented or the female should be representative with

524
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 1: that big movement that was going on in the seventies

525
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:49,640
Speaker 1: and eighties.

526
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 2: Well, I was a part of it, so it affected

527
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 2: me too. So I I just instinctively know, I think

528
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 2: what women want. That's why I'm an editor. Why why

529
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:10,120
Speaker 2: because I just understand them?

530
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 1: But what when you at the time. It is different now,

531
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,879
Speaker 1: of course, but at the time women weren't given a

532
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 1: fair shake.

533
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,640
Speaker 2: No we weren't, so we encouraged them to have a go.

534
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 1: But a lot of women just would rather at the time,

535
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 1: it's just accepted status quo and just look, why argue,

536
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,160
Speaker 1: why go along? And just just go along with the ways.

537
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 2: Clear always said women had a choice. You should make

538
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 2: your choice about what you want to do with your

539
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 2: life and apologize to no one because we often say it,

540
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 2: I'm sorry. Women need to remove the words sorry from

541
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 2: the vocabulary. So if you make your own choice about

542
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 2: what you want to do. If you want to be

543
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 2: a mother and raise children but also have a career, fine.

544
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 2: If you just want to be a stay at home mother, fine,

545
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 2: to be a career woman with no children, fine, it's

546
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 2: your choice what you do with your life. Make your choice,

547
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 2: don't apologize to anyone, and enjoy what you do.

548
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 1: That's very interesting. So because you cover quite a bit

549
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:19,239
Speaker 1: of ground there, id like, everything is okay as long

550
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 1: as you make the choice positively and you don't apologize

551
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 1: for it. So you make the choice, but it doesn't

552
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 1: matter what you want to do. It's not a matter

553
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 1: of saying, well, it's not good enough if you're just

554
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 1: a mom stay at.

555
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 2: Home, But if that's what you want, that's fine.

556
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's actually a good way of contextualizing the whole

557
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 1: process because the problem is some people want to get

558
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 1: into a corner and take sides and say, nah, it's

559
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 1: not good enough to be.

560
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 2: It's just a mile too many people try to please everybody,

561
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 2: and the only person you should be looking to please

562
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 2: is yourself. That's not to say you can't be generous

563
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 2: to other people, but it's your life. We're owning here.

564
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 2: Once you can't afford to waste the moment of it,

565
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 2: make a decision about what you want to do and

566
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 2: go forward.

567
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 1: And do you think that back in particularly back in

568
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 1: the seventies and eighties, it was very judgmental, because I

569
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 1: think it's also judgmental and men at the time too,

570
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 1: by the way, And if you didn't like I remember,

571
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 1: if you didn't go to university, which is the opposite now,

572
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 1: but if you didn't go to university, you weren't as

573
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 1: you were not as good as the person who went

574
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 1: to university and got a university agree and become a lawyer,

575
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 1: a doctor, or an engineer or something like that. There

576
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 1: was a lot of more judgment back then. Do you

577
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 1: think that people like yourself? And you know, all the

578
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 1: publications have sort of taken a lot of judgment away

579
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 1: and made things much more egalitarian today.

580
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 2: Well, I would hope the publications for which I was

581
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 2: responsible would have been like that, because it's what I've

582
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 2: always believed. It's what I always believed.

583
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 1: Do you think back some of the amazing women you

584
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 1: met during that period? And I was only just thinking

585
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 1: of when I knew you were coming in today, and

586
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 1: you were coming in for a while now, But I've

587
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 1: not seen about this one. I was thinking about Maggie Tabra.

588
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 1: Do you think about some of the wonderful.

589
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 2: People Maggie Tabra, Carlos and Patty Carla's and Patty Amelda Roach.

590
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 2: Is Melder still alive? She is?

591
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 1: Yeah? I think she's She's She's Dom's mother.

592
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 2: Yes, sure comes to chief Executive women functions.

593
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 1: Wow. Do you do you think about the how maybe

594
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 1: privileged I don't mean in a monetary sense, but privileged

595
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: to have been around with those extraordinary women.

596
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's been a great time to be

597
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 2: a woman. You know, I've been part of the evolution

598
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 2: of women. It's all changed since I was a girl,

599
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 2: and it's been fantastic. What we can do, what we

600
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 2: can achieve. You know, most many of us have earned

601
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 2: seif can income that no one could have possibly have

602
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 2: imagined that we would have earned when I started work

603
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 2: a fifth down.

604
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 1: But then when you when you mentioned the stories about

605
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 1: you know, so Frank pakor giving you know, giving you

606
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 1: an opportunity and want to make sure he kept you

607
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 1: and carry not wanting you to go because he appreciated

608
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 1: your value. And then someone like Rubert and we're talking

609
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 1: about scowns of you know, like industry.

610
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 2: It's when I worked hard, I made the money too.

611
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 2: You know, it's not not all one sided. Yes, they

612
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 2: gave me opportunities, but I delivered.

613
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 1: And took the opportunities and took the opportunity. So because

614
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 1: a lot of people don't nail it, they're not after

615
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 1: the opportunity.

616
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 2: A lot of people just opportunities are always there, aren't they.

617
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 2: You've just got to recognize them and grab them, don't

618
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 2: let them pass you by.

619
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, how what is that ambition that does that? Or

620
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 1: what is that? Is that a natural instinct that I

621
00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 1: am always looking to improve my lot? Talking now?

622
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 2: Well, I think the thing is people come to me

623
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 2: or they used to, with offers and I think, hm, yes,

624
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 2: I'd like that, I'd like that, and so I'd say yes.

625
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 2: And then you think What the hell have I done?

626
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 2: What have I agreed to do? And you think, but

627
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 2: I can do this. I can do it. I may

628
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 2: have to do some homework, I may have to brush

629
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 2: up on something, but that doesn't mean I can't do it.

630
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 1: It's funny.

631
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 2: It's a challenge of opportunity that I like.

632
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 1: How would what would you say to young women today,

633
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 1: for example, who are yeah, young women who are not

634
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 1: necessarily want to be journalists, et cetera, but who are

635
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 1: ambitious about some technology that they're trying to build. How

636
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:50,960
Speaker 1: do they go about getting to the individuals that somehow

637
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 1: you manage to get to to make sure that their

638
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 1: business can become success.

639
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 2: But I did. All I did was work hard and

640
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 2: deliver the deliver the goods. So if you deliver the goods,

641
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 2: you're noticed, I think.

642
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 1: But you must have known that I'm going to be

643
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 1: a journalist. So the most powerful journalist industry family, for example, is,

644
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 1: let's call it one of them anyway, is the Packer family.

645
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 1: They've got all these magazines that are wonderful magazines.

646
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 2: No, it was just a natural step for me to

647
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 2: take because dad had worked there, Oh right, okay, and

648
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 2: he knew everybody. He knew everybody, and I knew a

649
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:30,240
Speaker 2: lot of people because they were my parents' friends. Yeah,

650
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 2: but that didn't mean that I could be on familiar

651
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 2: first name terms. They were still Missus Fenston, Missus Shelton

652
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 2: Smith or whatever it is. So I was always respectful

653
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 2: to older people.

654
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, do you think that today younger people have

655
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,280
Speaker 1: can have younger women can have the same opportunities?

656
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 2: Oh, they must be there. Technology is changing the world,

657
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:01,799
Speaker 2: and it's a question of making sure you know what

658
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 2: technology you're good at, and if you're not good at it,

659
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 2: perhaps brushing up your skills and seeing where it's taking you.

660
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 2: There's always opportunities, there's always new things happening. You have

661
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 2: to be across them.

662
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 1: How come you're so sharp.

663
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 2: To my brain?

664
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 1: I'm trying to, I know, because it's funny.

665
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 2: I actually I've been classified as a super ager, a

666
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 2: super ASA. Yes, because my brain. Because of my brain.

667
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be surprised because I had on the podcast

668
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 1: John Howard been through and John's the saying John's recollection

669
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 1: of stuff, Like it's amazing what he was recollecting, Like

670
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:49,320
Speaker 1: some of the things he was talking about, names, places, dates, individuals, times, events,

671
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 1: just rolling about one half the other. I mean, you

672
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 1: can't hear very well. So he was shouting at me.

673
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 1: But we're managing. We managed to We managed to bring

674
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 1: that down on the edit. But but other than that,

675
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:06,800
Speaker 1: like his ability to respond like yours, like it's like sharp, quick,

676
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:10,720
Speaker 1: quick witted. You're actually answering my questions before I finish

677
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:15,800
Speaker 1: my question, and and you're sort of absorbing the question

678
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:18,919
Speaker 1: faster than I can even get the question out. And

679
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:20,879
Speaker 1: what do you put that down to? Because a lot

680
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 1: of people these days want to age well, they want

681
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 1: to live a long time, you know, the longevity, all

682
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 1: that sort of stuff. I haven't retired, Okay, Nora's John said, well,

683
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 1: what does that mean?

684
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 2: It means you're still using your brain. You're still thinking,

685
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 2: how do you do it?

686
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 1: How do you stimulate? What are the stimuli for you?

687
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 1: What is it? Conversations with a hand.

688
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:45,280
Speaker 2: So I'm writing speech at the moment about giving mine's

689
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 2: hope and that's I'm delivering that a neurodegenerative conference on Friday,

690
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 2: and it is to do with my work, primarily to

691
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:59,280
Speaker 2: do with my work with dementia Australia. Well, well, I've

692
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:03,839
Speaker 2: worked since two thousand and eight because my father had

693
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:10,759
Speaker 2: vascular dementia and I was working on it yesterday, and

694
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,839
Speaker 2: it really challenges your brain to sort of you think, now,

695
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:16,759
Speaker 2: what else can I add in here? I've got to

696
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 2: tell them about hope. The new drugs that offer hope,

697
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:25,360
Speaker 2: that they're very expensive, they've got serious side effects. But

698
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:29,799
Speaker 2: for the first time, we have drugs that will absolutely

699
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 2: stop the progression of dementia. So we're on the right track.

700
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 2: And for years and years it seemed that we were

701
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 2: never going to find anything to stop the progress of dementia.

702
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 2: It's not a cure, it just stops the progression. So

703
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:48,800
Speaker 2: that offers the mind hope. So within that frame, within

704
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 2: that heading, I've got to cover lots of things. And

705
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,800
Speaker 2: I was thinking this morning as I was getting ready

706
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 2: to come in here, I thought, hmm, I know how

707
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,880
Speaker 2: I'll end it. Now. My brain was thinking, how am

708
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 2: I going to end this speech? I've started? Well, I've

709
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 2: just I'm need to trim the middle. But I've got

710
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 2: it all there. I just don't have the ending yet,

711
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 2: but I think I've worked it out. So my brain

712
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 2: is always busy.

713
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 1: So how long is the speech going to go?

714
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 2: For?

715
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 1: Long? Often out I got that thirty minutes. Is that's

716
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 1: feeling intense?

717
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 2: Yes, it's about five thousand words yep.

718
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 1: And do you break I'm just curious because similarly, I

719
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 1: make lots of speeches. Do you break your speech up?

720
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 1: And to say five lots of six minute lots, so

721
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 1: you'll have a six minute section, six minute section by five?

722
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 1: How do you work out how to spend thirty minutes

723
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 1: engaging an audience?

724
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 2: I just delivered the speech. I don't I expect them

725
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 2: to listen. I don't use PowerPoint because people read the PowerPoint.

726
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 2: You haven't got them at all. They have to listen

727
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 2: to me. I have to grab their attention. I have

728
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 2: to keep them amused. So you drop something light in

729
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 2: the middle, give him a laugh, and then go back

730
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 2: to the serious message. No, I don't do six minutes lots.

731
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 1: Of You don't structure foreign.

732
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 2: Well, I structure it beginning, middle and end, Yes, right,

733
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 2: call to arms whatever, whatever, it's all in there.

734
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:20,799
Speaker 1: Have you started have you tried out using have you

735
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:24,440
Speaker 1: tried to use artificial intelligence? Two?

736
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 2: I don't know enough about it. You know, there's a

737
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:32,680
Speaker 2: guy coming. There's a guy I'm going to hear on

738
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 2: in a couple of days time, who's going to talk

739
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:40,879
Speaker 2: about AI for seniors, And I thought, well, that could

740
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 2: be interesting, so I might trot along and hear what

741
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:46,720
Speaker 2: he's got to say. But when I'm writing a book,

742
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:51,240
Speaker 2: my time has always taken up with writing the book,

743
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:54,919
Speaker 2: and now my time has taken up with marketing the book,

744
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 2: because it's not enough for an author just to write

745
00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 2: a book. You've got to market the book. And I

746
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:05,319
Speaker 2: try to keep my mind tidy. So my focus is

747
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:09,440
Speaker 2: on this book at the moment, and once it's done

748
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 2: and it's out there for people to decide for themselves

749
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:15,759
Speaker 2: whether or not I've written something that they want to read,

750
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 2: I'll then address my need for more information on AI.

751
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 1: So the book you're talking about is this one here unapologetically.

752
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:27,680
Speaker 2: Iter that's someone.

753
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 1: So what is this book about now? And why did

754
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 1: you write this book? And when did you write it?

755
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:38,319
Speaker 2: I wrote it last year, in twenty twenty four. So

756
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:43,719
Speaker 2: when you chaired the ABC, you defend the ABC. You

757
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 2: have opinions about national broadcasters, you have opinions about political interference,

758
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:54,239
Speaker 2: but you don't have opinions about much else because you

759
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 2: have to keep your opinions to yourself. Because I I

760
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 2: didn't want the ABC to be a q of being

761
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 2: one way or the other because of a thought I

762
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:07,360
Speaker 2: might have had. So don't express your thoughts as freely

763
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:11,400
Speaker 2: as I can now. So once I'd finished my chairmanship

764
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 2: of the ABC after five years, I thought I can

765
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:19,920
Speaker 2: get my voice back. I can raise issues that concern me.

766
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:25,879
Speaker 2: So this is that includes areas that concern me, things

767
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 2: about I never thought I'd live in Australia where people

768
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:32,240
Speaker 2: couldn't afford to buy a home in the capital cities,

769
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:35,439
Speaker 2: and that's what we've got now. I never thought I'd

770
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 2: live in a world which seems intent on destroying itself

771
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 2: because people have blinkers and climate change. How much more

772
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:47,239
Speaker 2: do we have to see the climate change? How many

773
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,839
Speaker 2: warnings do we have to receive from scientists to know

774
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:54,880
Speaker 2: that the world is threatened by its climate because of

775
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 2: the careless behavior of us on the planet. It's a

776
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 2: human destruction of a planet and we can't do that.

777
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:04,360
Speaker 2: We have to leave the planet in good shape for

778
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:07,799
Speaker 2: all the people that come after us. We're all here

779
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 2: only once, but it's not our world. It belongs to everybody.

780
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 2: Everybody here and everybody that's coming after us.

781
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 1: It's interesting you call it unapologetically.

782
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 2: You.

783
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:27,080
Speaker 1: During your championship with the ABC, I often thought about you,

784
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:33,360
Speaker 1: and I often thought to myself, there the difficulty you

785
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:37,320
Speaker 1: must have had in terms of issues that were happening

786
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 1: around it. Sometimes the ABC was the issue itself. Was

787
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 1: within the ABC or alternative of the ABC was commenting

788
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 1: and commenting on issues in other places where they were realisious,

789
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:50,799
Speaker 1: and I used to think to myself the conflict that

790
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 1: that must raise in someone's mind if they have a

791
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:57,680
Speaker 1: personal view. Was it a difficult thing or was it

792
00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:01,239
Speaker 1: something you had to consistently and assistently work on to

793
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:07,400
Speaker 1: divorce Ida Buttrose's personal view from what ended up becoming

794
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:11,880
Speaker 1: the National Broadcasters view is that something you have to

795
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:13,879
Speaker 1: continually work on has you.

796
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 2: Don't continually work on it, you just accept that there

797
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:18,759
Speaker 2: are limitations to what you can say when you take

798
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:21,439
Speaker 2: on the job, and when you've been in a job

799
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 2: just a few weeks, you realize how true that is.

800
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 2: You know, you just you just can't because you'll you'll

801
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 2: damage it. And I love the ABC and I wouldn't

802
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 2: want to damage it. So I was very consistent in

803
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:38,799
Speaker 2: keeping my thoughts to myself. I might have I might

804
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,520
Speaker 2: have shared them with the managing director from time to time,

805
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:45,240
Speaker 2: but apparently they were they were private. They were private

806
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 2: discussions between David Anderson and myself.

807
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:53,719
Speaker 1: But it is is therefore difficult because when you're the

808
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 1: editor of the women's magazines and the women's part of

809
00:43:57,239 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 1: you know, newspapers, et cetera, you were quite forthright in

810
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 1: your own views relative to how they would be, you know,

811
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:08,880
Speaker 1: like women's rights, not so much women's rights, but just

812
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 1: being forthright about women generally. You could push those things through.

813
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:16,120
Speaker 1: Your ideologies could be seen in the context of whatever

814
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:18,920
Speaker 1: it was that you were producing as editor in chief.

815
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 1: But when you're at the ABC in a championship role,

816
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:29,759
Speaker 1: a chair person's role, you're not able to your own

817
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:33,239
Speaker 1: ideology has to be sort of somewhat suppressed.

818
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:36,880
Speaker 2: Well publicly, yes, yes, but for instance, I did encourage

819
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:41,400
Speaker 2: more women in the newsroom and that was already underway,

820
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:44,759
Speaker 2: and I just let it be known that I supported

821
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:53,399
Speaker 2: that idea, and I would send encouraging messages from time

822
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 2: to time to certain people. And so you can still

823
00:44:57,120 --> 00:44:59,759
Speaker 2: do the things you believe in, you just don't make

824
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:00,840
Speaker 2: it quite so public.

825
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:04,839
Speaker 1: And would you would you say that you ever pulled

826
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:09,280
Speaker 1: a leaf out of say Kerry's book, Kerry Packer's book Playbook,

827
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 1: so to speak, as chairman of as chairperson of the ABC,

828
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:18,799
Speaker 1: would you come down to the newsroom and go and

829
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:20,759
Speaker 1: see what everybody's doing like Kerry used to do. We

830
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 1: used to sort of to some extent, sort of get involved.

831
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:27,880
Speaker 1: You're a cameraman or you're you're a journalist. How are

832
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 1: you going? You know, what are you doing, what you're

833
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:32,799
Speaker 1: working on? Did you do that or is it not

834
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:33,920
Speaker 1: really your role?

835
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:38,239
Speaker 2: Not really my role, I don't think. But it's a

836
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:41,279
Speaker 2: very big building at Ultimore. You can get lost in it.

837
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 2: So I was on the fourteenth floor and there were

838
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:50,400
Speaker 2: lots of areas below me, and then there was another

839
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 2: building alongside, a smaller building, and there were people there.

840
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:58,440
Speaker 2: So it was hard to see everybody. But I used

841
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:02,759
Speaker 2: to attend events and talk to people. Of course you would.

842
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:06,000
Speaker 2: But it's not the same. It's not the same as

843
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 2: as Consolidated Press was under carry Packer.

844
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:12,719
Speaker 1: Because I guess in some extent Kerry was not the

845
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 1: chairperson but more the owner, the proprietor.

846
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:17,800
Speaker 2: Definitely the owner, Yeah.

847
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 1: Proprietor, and you do it the way I want it

848
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:21,880
Speaker 1: to be done. So to speak.

849
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:24,880
Speaker 2: He's Frank used to say to me, I own the

850
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 2: bloody papers, don't I yes, sir, Frank, well do do

851
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:29,800
Speaker 2: what I want.

852
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:32,840
Speaker 1: I tell you funny story one time I said to

853
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:34,719
Speaker 1: Kerry went here and I'm business together. I said, oh, look,

854
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 1: a current fair wants to do an interview with me.

855
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:39,320
Speaker 1: I don't know why I was telling him. I was

856
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:40,840
Speaker 1: just telling him, just updating him. And he said I

857
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 1: wouldn't do it. And I said why not? I said,

858
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 1: good publicy we know. He said nah. He said I

859
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 1: wouldn't do it. I wouldn't be let a current of

860
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:52,759
Speaker 1: interview me. He said, I wouldn't. I said, for you're

861
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 1: the owner, I said. He said, son, I'm telling you

862
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:58,839
Speaker 1: I wouldn't do it. I did it, and I wish

863
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 1: I hadn't have won see what happened, But I wish

864
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:03,839
Speaker 1: I had enough. And he said, And when it came

865
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 1: up on the thing, he called me up. He said,

866
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:12,200
Speaker 1: what did I tell you? And he was he was

867
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 1: very I.

868
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:14,840
Speaker 2: Mean, that was advised straight from the horse's mouth, and

869
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 2: you ignored it.

870
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:18,120
Speaker 1: And I, well, I was. I was so held met

871
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 1: on getting publicity for my business at the time, and

872
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 1: it was all new for me. It was all free,

873
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:25,360
Speaker 1: like I'm going to take the advantage of the opportunity.

874
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:28,880
Speaker 1: May never get it again. But his advice was correct,

875
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:34,240
Speaker 1: and it's funny you're what you're saying to me anyway,

876
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:40,799
Speaker 1: As a chairperson of an institution, obviously Channel nine became

877
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 1: an institution, but as an institution, your role is more guidance.

878
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 1: What is the role of a chairperson of strategy?

879
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:54,840
Speaker 2: Strategy? Yeah, observing the charter applicating.

880
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:57,359
Speaker 1: Governments government interference.

881
00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:58,759
Speaker 2: Government is batting it off.

882
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 1: Do governments ring up like any type any stripes the

883
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 1: governments say, listen, we're not happy with that story you

884
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:08,000
Speaker 1: guys did on whatever it was.

885
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:10,640
Speaker 2: No, they leak things to the media, to.

886
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 1: The other medias. Yeah, it's basically letting you know that

887
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:18,799
Speaker 1: they're not happy. And then you what do you do?

888
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:20,359
Speaker 1: Do you apologize it? What do you say?

889
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:23,759
Speaker 2: No, you don't. You don't apologize with a national broadcaster.

890
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you don't say anything. You just roll.

891
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:30,480
Speaker 2: The reason why democracy needs national broadcasters is because they're

892
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 2: not interfered with. The government doesn't have a right to

893
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 2: tell us what we should do and what we should cover.

894
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:46,280
Speaker 2: It's not like commercial media, which might adhere to advertiser's appeal.

895
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:50,400
Speaker 2: So we say, so there's no commercial interference in the ABC.

896
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:59,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's interesting. So is unapologetically a reference to a

897
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:01,919
Speaker 1: period time where you couldn't say what you wanted to say.

898
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:03,640
Speaker 2: No, it's just this is it.

899
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:04,839
Speaker 1: It is me. I'm saying it.

900
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:07,680
Speaker 2: That's right, like it a lump it that's right, like

901
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:09,719
Speaker 2: a little lumpet. This is what I think.

902
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:11,879
Speaker 1: I couldn't give a damn, But I need to say

903
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 1: this now.

904
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 2: You don't give a damn. The older you don't apologize,

905
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:18,960
Speaker 2: the older you get, you don't give it damn.

906
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:21,360
Speaker 1: By the way, you know, some people say to me,

907
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:26,000
Speaker 1: you're right. I say, reason I do what I do

908
00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:28,759
Speaker 1: because I just don't care. I don't care what anyone thinks.

909
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 1: I really couldn't care less. Like I don't even prove

910
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:35,080
Speaker 1: to everybody, to my audience, for example, I don't I

911
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:36,800
Speaker 1: don't care. I mean, I want them to have a

912
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:41,120
Speaker 1: good enjoy the interviews. But I don't care so much anymore.

913
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:44,720
Speaker 1: When I was younger, I always cared. I was always worried.

914
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:47,000
Speaker 2: I think you just learned to live with it, don't you.

915
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well you've got to roll with it at

916
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:50,359
Speaker 1: the end. Of the day. Can you can you just

917
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:52,560
Speaker 1: give me some just a couple of things that you

918
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:55,399
Speaker 1: really says here, look after your brain? Oh my god,

919
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:57,840
Speaker 1: I just turned chapter five look after Brain? Has I

920
00:49:57,880 --> 00:49:59,920
Speaker 1: got something to do with you? With your experience and

921
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:01,280
Speaker 1: dementia Australia.

922
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 2: Well yes, and now I'm the chair of the Divisory

923
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:08,040
Speaker 2: Remedy of the Center for Healthy Brain Aging. And you

924
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:11,440
Speaker 2: know people ignore their brain, but we now know that

925
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:15,160
Speaker 2: if you look after your brain. We do believe if

926
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:19,239
Speaker 2: people looked after their brain and then subsequently did things

927
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:22,239
Speaker 2: that were good for the brain, like not getting too obese,

928
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:30,440
Speaker 2: like controlling blood pressure, like keeping cholesterol low, like physically exercising,

929
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 2: like challenging the brain by making it learn new things,

930
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:39,759
Speaker 2: that you can reduce your risk of vascular dementia. We

931
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:45,759
Speaker 2: think that's the dementia that people's behavior influences. So if

932
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:50,440
Speaker 2: people could modify their behavior, our research tells us that

933
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 2: people could reduce their risk of dementia, of vascular dementia.

934
00:50:55,120 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 2: You don't have to get it, but it's up to

935
00:50:57,640 --> 00:51:00,720
Speaker 2: you to look after your body and it's your brain.

936
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:02,840
Speaker 1: I got to show the camera with this because it's

937
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:05,640
Speaker 1: a bit scary, Like I just literally I didn't have

938
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:07,359
Speaker 1: I didn't have a mark, but I picked it up

939
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 1: and just opened up on any page, and it's chapter five,

940
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:14,799
Speaker 1: Look after your Brain, page under twenty three, and we're

941
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:18,160
Speaker 1: talking about vascular dementia. It's interesting that you should raise

942
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:21,280
Speaker 1: that because I just I might quickly say that vascular

943
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:24,480
Speaker 1: dementia is usually caused by your brain not getting enough

944
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:27,879
Speaker 1: blood flow which carries oxygen nutrients, and your neurons start

945
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 1: to die off. And I know a little bit about

946
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 1: it because dementia is a scary topic for me, you know,

947
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:34,799
Speaker 1: because I have it in my family, ceter so it

948
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 1: worries me. And as someone who's had a lot of

949
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:46,480
Speaker 1: concussions in the during the periods of boxing, Yeah, and

950
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:48,839
Speaker 1: it worries me a lot. So I've spent a bit

951
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:51,879
Speaker 1: of time looking at dementia and all the various forms

952
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:54,360
Speaker 1: of adventure. There's lots of forms of adventure, as you know.

953
00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:57,360
Speaker 1: But it is I read somewhere that I heard some

954
00:51:57,400 --> 00:51:59,840
Speaker 1: of the other day. It is now Australia's number one killer.

955
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 1: It is overtaken heart attack, cardio arre cratecoris. And we

956
00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:11,400
Speaker 1: don't that chapter's important chapter. We don't pay enough attention

957
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:13,440
Speaker 1: to it In Australia, we sort of ignore it.

958
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:17,160
Speaker 2: Well the government. The government is aware of the caseload.

959
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 2: It's four hundred and thirty three thousand Australians currently living

960
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:25,400
Speaker 2: with dementia and that figure is expected to double without

961
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:30,239
Speaker 2: in say by twenty fifty six, if we don't get

962
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:32,799
Speaker 2: a medical breakthrough. Now, I've mentioned the drugs that are

963
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:35,280
Speaker 2: offering hope, but there's a long way to go with those.

964
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:41,200
Speaker 2: So what we need is an awareness campaign. Awareness because

965
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:44,799
Speaker 2: the research tells us that not enough Australians know about

966
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:48,120
Speaker 2: the risk factors. They say that they would modify their

967
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:50,640
Speaker 2: behavior if they knew what they had to do. So

968
00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:56,000
Speaker 2: I've listed them for you. Exercise challenge the brain, so

969
00:52:56,640 --> 00:52:59,960
Speaker 2: socially interact with people. Challenge the brain with something new

970
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:04,000
Speaker 2: that hasn't done before. What's your blood pressure, what's your cholesterol?

971
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:08,640
Speaker 2: Don't get overweight, drink in moderation and don't smoke.

972
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:11,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, don't smoke is a big one, and they're all

973
00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:14,600
Speaker 1: behavioral things. By the way, we're not talking about any genetic.

974
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:17,640
Speaker 2: There, no, no, it's just up to people themselves to

975
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:21,160
Speaker 2: take responsibility for their brain and the health.

976
00:53:22,120 --> 00:53:24,920
Speaker 1: Do you feel as though to some extent this book

977
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:29,920
Speaker 1: is I mean, whilst it says unapologetically Eider, it's not

978
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:34,560
Speaker 1: really about Ida. It's about new movements not dissimilar to

979
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:36,640
Speaker 1: the one that you were part of in the seventies

980
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:42,160
Speaker 1: and eighties and nineties in relation to women in Australia.

981
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:45,600
Speaker 1: But it's now sort of now it's not necessarily about

982
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:49,840
Speaker 1: women now it's about Australians. When I look at a

983
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:52,280
Speaker 1: chaplo that taking control of their life.

984
00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:56,239
Speaker 2: Well it is. It is about It is about you

985
00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:58,800
Speaker 2: taking control of your life like you've.

986
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:03,080
Speaker 1: Always done I have. But as you said earlier, about

987
00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:05,319
Speaker 1: making choices, but being aware of the choices you make.

988
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:09,360
Speaker 1: So when it comes to being in business, you're saying,

989
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:10,960
Speaker 1: you know, you make the choice, you go do what

990
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:12,160
Speaker 1: you want to do. If you want to be a

991
00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:13,719
Speaker 1: mother and you be a mother, that's fine. If you

992
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:15,200
Speaker 1: want to be a mother and be a working mother,

993
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:16,640
Speaker 1: that's fine. If you don't want to be a mother,

994
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:19,319
Speaker 1: that's fine. By the way, if you want to have

995
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:20,960
Speaker 1: if you don't want to, if you want to have

996
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:23,560
Speaker 1: a problem with your brain, you should be aware of

997
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:25,439
Speaker 1: these things. If you don't want to have a problem

998
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:27,600
Speaker 1: with your brain, you don't want to get dementia. You've

999
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:31,280
Speaker 1: got to be aware of these things and make a choice.

1000
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:34,600
Speaker 2: Yes, you do, But why would you want to get

1001
00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:36,080
Speaker 2: dementia if you could avoid it?

1002
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:41,920
Speaker 1: Nobody would mean to me. I would think, and I've

1003
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:44,759
Speaker 1: said it to my kids, that is the worst thing

1004
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:47,920
Speaker 1: I could possibly get as an individual. And I have

1005
00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:50,160
Speaker 1: made a lot of bad choices in my life early

1006
00:54:50,239 --> 00:54:54,600
Speaker 1: on behaviorally, not these days, but when I'm getting to

1007
00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:57,880
Speaker 1: an age where I'm I can't do those things that

1008
00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:00,200
Speaker 1: you see when I was younger, but I did made

1009
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:04,480
Speaker 1: choice me wrong choices. Sorry, Like what drinking.

1010
00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:07,839
Speaker 2: And I can still drink, but I drank a lot.

1011
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:10,400
Speaker 1: But I drank a lot. I boxed a lot, like

1012
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:13,799
Speaker 1: a lot too much. And I had no idea if

1013
00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:16,239
Speaker 1: my dad was a box and I didn't know that

1014
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:18,799
Speaker 1: something all that could cause imagin' even know what dementia was.

1015
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:20,920
Speaker 1: When I was a young guy, had no idea. And

1016
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:22,960
Speaker 1: in fact, in those days, if you got hit in

1017
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:25,040
Speaker 1: the head and you kept going, that was like a

1018
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:30,000
Speaker 1: badge of honor in my sort of cohorter people growing up.

1019
00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:32,239
Speaker 1: Or if you played football and you didn't come off

1020
00:55:32,239 --> 00:55:35,200
Speaker 1: the field when you've been had had been hit in

1021
00:55:35,239 --> 00:55:38,080
Speaker 1: the head. That was a badge of honor. And it's

1022
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:41,959
Speaker 1: it's interesting that their behavioral things, but it's about awareness.

1023
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:46,879
Speaker 2: Yes, So I think brain health has to start when

1024
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:50,000
Speaker 2: children are young so that they grow up with these

1025
00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 2: messages ingrained in them to look after your brain. So

1026
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:55,920
Speaker 2: if you're going out on the bike, put your helmet on.

1027
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:58,960
Speaker 2: If you're playing cricket, put a helmet on with it

1028
00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:01,640
Speaker 2: with a neckart so you don't get hit by a ball,

1029
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 2: all of those things.

1030
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:06,759
Speaker 1: What would you say to someone then who says, oh,

1031
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:09,759
Speaker 1: we're just turning on nanny state or that type of conversation,

1032
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:11,200
Speaker 1: Like I see it in the I don't know if

1033
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:13,839
Speaker 1: you follow the rugby league, but I see it when

1034
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:17,840
Speaker 1: I hear older patrons of the game say to me

1035
00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:22,000
Speaker 1: and I don't think this way. Oh, in the old days,

1036
00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:24,960
Speaker 1: he wouldn't have come off after you got that b

1037
00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:28,000
Speaker 1: head knock. He would have played on. We would have

1038
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:31,560
Speaker 1: played on and this is just turned on nanny state.

1039
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:33,399
Speaker 1: What do you say to those people.

1040
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:37,440
Speaker 2: Well, that's ridiculous. It's ridiculous because we now know that

1041
00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:39,480
Speaker 2: if you knock the brain around too much on the

1042
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:45,720
Speaker 2: football field, you can get dementia. So what's why wouldn't

1043
00:56:45,719 --> 00:56:48,000
Speaker 2: you want a warning about that? And why wouldn't you

1044
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:50,839
Speaker 2: come off the field and stop playing for a bit

1045
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:53,240
Speaker 2: if you did get a bad knock on your head?

1046
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:56,920
Speaker 2: Nanny said bull dust.

1047
00:56:57,200 --> 00:57:00,440
Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, I agree with that. I mean, I but

1048
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:03,360
Speaker 1: do you think then therefore, as a country, we're starting

1049
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:06,000
Speaker 1: to mature a little bit and stop being so because

1050
00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:08,800
Speaker 1: you know, we were that old school rough and ready.

1051
00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:11,239
Speaker 1: You know, you'll be right, you'll be fine, get on

1052
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:14,440
Speaker 1: with it. We're starting to be a bit more intelligent

1053
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:15,640
Speaker 1: about how we live our lives.

1054
00:57:15,880 --> 00:57:18,040
Speaker 2: I hope. So I do think so.

1055
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:26,120
Speaker 1: And is your book sort of trying to passionately drive that.

1056
00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:30,200
Speaker 2: Well, one thing that's hardest of all is to change

1057
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:33,600
Speaker 2: people's behavior. People always think it's going to be someone else.

1058
00:57:33,600 --> 00:57:35,400
Speaker 2: It's not going to be them, it's going to be

1059
00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:36,400
Speaker 2: them over there.

1060
00:57:36,680 --> 00:57:36,880
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1061
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:43,440
Speaker 2: And the thing is with dementia, it doesn't it doesn't

1062
00:57:43,600 --> 00:57:49,160
Speaker 2: discriminate against anybody. Everybody can be a subject of dementia.

1063
00:57:49,240 --> 00:57:51,680
Speaker 1: So I mean, as I said, I don't want to

1064
00:57:51,680 --> 00:57:53,360
Speaker 1: focus just on one chapter, because you've got lots of

1065
00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:55,919
Speaker 1: chapters in here, But that one chapter about your brain,

1066
00:57:56,040 --> 00:58:01,200
Speaker 1: looking after your brain, it doesn't dementia doesn't become a

1067
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:04,600
Speaker 1: problem just when you get to my age or an older.

1068
00:58:04,520 --> 00:58:08,800
Speaker 2: No, there's childhood dementia. There's about twenty seven thousand Australians

1069
00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:11,120
Speaker 2: living with younger onset dimension.

1070
00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:18,400
Speaker 1: Twenty seven thousand. Yes, and the habits or the behavior

1071
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:22,280
Speaker 1: that ultimately can end up in dementia for example at

1072
00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:26,320
Speaker 1: an old age. Actually someoneh you're younger, So that awareness

1073
00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:29,120
Speaker 1: program people need. Young people need to read these books.

1074
00:58:29,200 --> 00:58:31,120
Speaker 1: Young people need to become aware of this stuff. They

1075
00:58:31,120 --> 00:58:33,760
Speaker 1: should be going to listen to your giving hope to

1076
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:36,520
Speaker 1: the mind, your speech? Where's that speech?

1077
00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:38,040
Speaker 2: Acquarira University?

1078
00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:40,960
Speaker 1: At the university and is it part of some department

1079
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:42,720
Speaker 1: neurology or something like that.

1080
00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:46,520
Speaker 2: Neurops So they have a very big health campus and

1081
00:58:46,560 --> 00:58:49,080
Speaker 2: they do have a dementia Center of Excellence.

1082
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:57,320
Speaker 1: It do you do this with so much passion? And

1083
00:58:57,360 --> 00:59:01,800
Speaker 1: I could see it so much passion and energy because

1084
00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:06,320
Speaker 1: this is Eida trying to give something back to Australia

1085
00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:10,520
Speaker 1: or is this because it's keeping eye as brain really

1086
00:59:10,560 --> 00:59:11,760
Speaker 1: going her self.

1087
00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:15,240
Speaker 2: And all no healthy interests are really for the benefit

1088
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:19,440
Speaker 2: of Australians. I've been a situation where I've been able

1089
00:59:19,480 --> 00:59:22,520
Speaker 2: to publicize them through in the magazines and newspapers that

1090
00:59:22,520 --> 00:59:25,600
Speaker 2: I've edited, the radio programs that I've done, the TV

1091
00:59:25,720 --> 00:59:28,560
Speaker 2: programs that I've done. And I think if you can

1092
00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:31,440
Speaker 2: give back, you should Life is not just for taking,

1093
00:59:32,120 --> 00:59:35,480
Speaker 2: it's forgiving. You have to give back to the community.

1094
00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:39,160
Speaker 1: And sometimes I think about that, and some of us

1095
00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:44,480
Speaker 1: in the world have been blessed to come across. Sure

1096
00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:46,920
Speaker 1: we took advantage opportunity. Sure we worked hard, I'll go

1097
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:49,920
Speaker 1: to all that, but we were blessed to have opportunities

1098
00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:53,720
Speaker 1: to meet the packers or whatever of the world. And

1099
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:55,400
Speaker 1: as we get older, we tend to feel like we

1100
00:59:55,480 --> 01:00:02,800
Speaker 1: need to pay that forward, give that back. So because

1101
01:00:02,840 --> 01:00:05,200
Speaker 1: otherwise you're being selfish. You're just a selfish person. You

1102
01:00:05,240 --> 01:00:06,400
Speaker 1: want to keep everying to yourself.

1103
01:00:06,520 --> 01:00:10,800
Speaker 2: But it's it's it's good to work with other organizations

1104
01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:15,000
Speaker 2: that have that have got a mission like preventing dementia

1105
01:00:15,320 --> 01:00:19,440
Speaker 2: or like improving eye health. You know, all the various

1106
01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:24,960
Speaker 2: things that I'm involved in. But it's just it makes

1107
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:29,560
Speaker 2: you grow as a person, you know, and you it

1108
01:00:29,720 --> 01:00:34,080
Speaker 2: enriches your life because you meet other people who are

1109
01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:37,560
Speaker 2: being busy, beavering away in these areas and you think

1110
01:00:37,920 --> 01:00:41,480
Speaker 2: that's really interesting. That's really interesting. I must talk about that.

1111
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:42,880
Speaker 2: I must tell people about that.

1112
01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:48,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's it's amazing that you're you at yours,

1113
01:00:48,520 --> 01:00:51,680
Speaker 1: your stage in life, and you know you're joh, I'm

1114
01:00:51,680 --> 01:00:52,240
Speaker 1: not don't even get.

1115
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:53,600
Speaker 2: It's just a child of eighty three.

1116
01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:58,840
Speaker 1: Yes, So that's amazing that you are not only curious

1117
01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:01,200
Speaker 1: about these things, but you're looking at things to enrich

1118
01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:03,720
Speaker 1: your life. You're not sitting back and saying, oh, I've

1119
01:01:03,760 --> 01:01:06,000
Speaker 1: done it all. I've been this editor and editor and

1120
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:10,040
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. You know, I'm independently Okay, financially I'm

1121
01:01:10,080 --> 01:01:15,160
Speaker 1: going good. I've met everybody, You've met everybody. You're looking

1122
01:01:15,160 --> 01:01:18,360
Speaker 1: at things to it continually to enrich your life.

1123
01:01:18,760 --> 01:01:20,840
Speaker 2: Yes, why not as long as you're here.

1124
01:01:21,560 --> 01:01:23,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally to the moment, to the moment. Not here

1125
01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:26,800
Speaker 1: from my point of view, I mean, we're talking about

1126
01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:29,920
Speaker 1: Graham Richardson earlier on, who passed away a couple of

1127
01:01:29,960 --> 01:01:33,960
Speaker 1: days ago, and rich O did his last sky News

1128
01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:39,480
Speaker 1: cross to sky News from his hospital bed a couple

1129
01:01:39,520 --> 01:01:40,680
Speaker 1: of days before he passed away.

1130
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:44,240
Speaker 2: I believe that that's.

1131
01:01:44,200 --> 01:01:48,520
Speaker 1: Some kind of guy he was, and it seems to me,

1132
01:01:48,960 --> 01:01:51,760
Speaker 1: it seems to be the same fabric that you're got

1133
01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:55,720
Speaker 1: in you. You're people say to Mark when you slid down, Well,

1134
01:01:55,760 --> 01:01:57,120
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't want to slay down, But like,

1135
01:01:57,680 --> 01:01:59,480
Speaker 1: what else are we going to do? Like I'm not

1136
01:01:59,480 --> 01:02:01,560
Speaker 1: going to sit aroun and home watch Netflix all day long.

1137
01:02:01,600 --> 01:02:04,320
Speaker 1: I mean, like it's good for me. I'm the same.

1138
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:07,840
Speaker 1: Like I'm actually selfish in that the reason I do

1139
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:09,320
Speaker 1: everything I do, and I do a lot of stuff

1140
01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:11,960
Speaker 1: where I don't get paid for it, make any money.

1141
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:15,000
Speaker 1: I'm just this whole show. Why I do this is

1142
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:17,600
Speaker 1: because I want people to be entertained by what entertains me.

1143
01:02:18,920 --> 01:02:20,840
Speaker 1: But at the same time, selfishly, it's good for me

1144
01:02:21,160 --> 01:02:23,360
Speaker 1: because I get to sit in front of Hider buttro So,

1145
01:02:23,360 --> 01:02:25,160
Speaker 1: I getting to sit in front of Graham Richardson. I'm

1146
01:02:25,160 --> 01:02:29,080
Speaker 1: getting John Laws. But if I didn't have this platform,

1147
01:02:29,120 --> 01:02:32,000
Speaker 1: I wouldn't get that opportunity. And I learned something every

1148
01:02:32,080 --> 01:02:34,360
Speaker 1: day from every one of these individuals, or I get

1149
01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:38,760
Speaker 1: reminded of something I've forgotten. That's important. Remember, I don't

1150
01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:41,600
Speaker 1: get chances to write books like you do. I'm You're

1151
01:02:41,680 --> 01:02:43,640
Speaker 1: prolific in that you can write, You're a journalist, you

1152
01:02:43,640 --> 01:02:45,480
Speaker 1: know how to do this stuff. I mean, it's harder

1153
01:02:45,840 --> 01:02:47,720
Speaker 1: it takes for me to write that. It would take

1154
01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:51,600
Speaker 1: me two years, and I go mental trying to do it.

1155
01:02:52,680 --> 01:02:54,440
Speaker 1: But I say, if I don't have that skill, But

1156
01:02:56,160 --> 01:02:59,000
Speaker 1: how important is it to be not selfish in the

1157
01:02:59,160 --> 01:03:05,000
Speaker 1: evil sense, but selfish towards making yourself enriched? How important

1158
01:03:05,080 --> 01:03:09,720
Speaker 1: is that for people to do that, not just be curious,

1159
01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:10,760
Speaker 1: but do something about it.

1160
01:03:11,320 --> 01:03:14,880
Speaker 2: Well, it's up to the person. It's up to each

1161
01:03:14,920 --> 01:03:19,360
Speaker 2: individual person. It's not making time for it, it's just

1162
01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:23,000
Speaker 2: making it a part of your life.

1163
01:03:23,680 --> 01:03:26,320
Speaker 1: Do you think it's but it's obviously worked for you.

1164
01:03:26,400 --> 01:03:29,680
Speaker 1: Do you think it's a good technique for people to

1165
01:03:29,760 --> 01:03:32,280
Speaker 1: learn from you and maybe do for themselves. It doesn't

1166
01:03:32,320 --> 01:03:34,640
Speaker 1: have to be to the extent you do it, but

1167
01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:37,960
Speaker 1: just continually trying to enrich your mind.

1168
01:03:38,520 --> 01:03:42,600
Speaker 2: I think so, I mean, well, just try it. Volunteer

1169
01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:46,360
Speaker 2: for something that you wouldn't normally volunteer for help out

1170
01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:50,760
Speaker 2: in the community. There's always people looking for help, that's

1171
01:03:50,800 --> 01:03:51,240
Speaker 2: for sure.

1172
01:03:51,440 --> 01:03:55,640
Speaker 1: And I think that concept is use raised before about

1173
01:03:56,320 --> 01:04:02,960
Speaker 1: giving back. Otherwise we tend to we can actually get

1174
01:04:03,000 --> 01:04:10,479
Speaker 1: into that sort of horrible sort of spiral of either

1175
01:04:10,520 --> 01:04:17,160
Speaker 1: apologizing or alternatively winging, and if you're looking for some

1176
01:04:17,200 --> 01:04:19,080
Speaker 1: way to get back, you stop whinging.

1177
01:04:20,680 --> 01:04:23,600
Speaker 2: And life's too short to winge.

1178
01:04:24,560 --> 01:04:28,840
Speaker 1: Quite frankly, that'll go down in the that that that phrase,

1179
01:04:30,080 --> 01:04:33,760
Speaker 1: that'll that'll that'll make the front of our podcast promotion.

1180
01:04:34,360 --> 01:04:36,880
Speaker 1: Life's too short to winge. I can just see Sami

1181
01:04:36,920 --> 01:04:38,920
Speaker 1: Abrodus is sitting out of there thinking about that. I

1182
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:43,480
Speaker 1: want to write some notes. But you're right, Adam, buttro

1183
01:04:43,680 --> 01:04:47,360
Speaker 1: said life's too short to winge. There's a big lesson

1184
01:04:47,360 --> 01:04:52,760
Speaker 1: in that one. It's nearly a second heading. Don't winge.

1185
01:04:53,880 --> 01:04:54,200
Speaker 2: Short.

1186
01:04:54,640 --> 01:04:58,120
Speaker 1: That's that's your next mission. And see that's amazing. Straight

1187
01:04:58,200 --> 01:05:01,280
Speaker 1: up you said, I'll write an of the book. That's

1188
01:05:01,320 --> 01:05:04,800
Speaker 1: amazing too. Are taking opportunities. Thanks very much for the buttress.

1189
01:05:04,920 --> 01:05:06,720
Speaker 2: That's thank you very much. I've enjoyed it.