1 00:00:05,921 --> 00:00:07,281 Speaker 1: Appoche Production. 2 00:00:14,041 --> 00:00:16,281 Speaker 2: Welcome to Real Crime with Adam Shand I'm your host, 3 00:00:16,441 --> 00:00:21,161 Speaker 2: Adam Shand some good news about the Cheryl Grimmer case. 4 00:00:21,961 --> 00:00:24,281 Speaker 2: We've covered with her brother Ricky Nash on a couple 5 00:00:24,281 --> 00:00:24,921 Speaker 2: of occasions. 6 00:00:24,961 --> 00:00:25,841 Speaker 3: Now. 7 00:00:26,001 --> 00:00:29,041 Speaker 2: Three year old Cheryl Grimmer disappeared from a Wollongong beach 8 00:00:29,081 --> 00:00:30,841 Speaker 2: more than five decades ago. 9 00:00:31,481 --> 00:00:35,801 Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy one, confessions emerged detailing the abduction and 10 00:00:35,961 --> 00:00:38,520 Speaker 1: murder of three year old Cheryl Grimmer. 11 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 2: The New South Wales DPP has agreed to review the 12 00:00:43,441 --> 00:00:49,401 Speaker 2: decision not to admit the critical admissions by Mercury, who 13 00:00:49,480 --> 00:00:52,681 Speaker 2: is known. We can't spell out the confessions that he 14 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:55,241 Speaker 2: gave back in nineteen seventy one that he had abducted 15 00:00:55,521 --> 00:01:00,041 Speaker 2: three year old Cheryl Grimmer and murdered her. The confession 16 00:01:00,161 --> 00:01:03,401 Speaker 2: was recorded when the suspect was a minor, leading the 17 00:01:03,441 --> 00:01:05,761 Speaker 2: Supreme Court to rule it inadmissible. 18 00:01:07,361 --> 00:01:09,801 Speaker 3: The DPP's agreed to look at that now again. 19 00:01:10,401 --> 00:01:13,801 Speaker 2: And this is an important breakthrough, one that her brother 20 00:01:13,881 --> 00:01:16,441 Speaker 2: Ricky Nash, has been fighting for for a very long time. 21 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:19,521 Speaker 2: So I got Ricky and recently to talk about that 22 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:23,041 Speaker 2: and also the interview his daughter did that. 23 00:01:23,121 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: Was the first time in my life that I've ever 24 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:28,041 Speaker 1: seen my dad ever emotional. 25 00:01:28,521 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 3: I saw a very broken man. 26 00:01:31,481 --> 00:01:34,641 Speaker 1: I've always felt that he's had that mask on, and 27 00:01:34,721 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 1: that day, yeah, he was just a different person. 28 00:01:39,121 --> 00:01:43,001 Speaker 4: Melanie Grimmer has been at different times been a strange 29 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:47,481 Speaker 4: from her father, and he suggested that she did an 30 00:01:47,521 --> 00:01:50,641 Speaker 4: interview about what it's been like living with Ricky on 31 00:01:50,681 --> 00:01:55,121 Speaker 4: his crusade for justice on behalf of his sister Cheryl. 32 00:01:55,561 --> 00:01:57,641 Speaker 2: So have a listen to this. This is Ricky Nash 33 00:01:57,641 --> 00:02:03,521 Speaker 2: recorded recently, Ricky Nash Welcome back to Real Crime with 34 00:02:03,561 --> 00:02:05,401 Speaker 2: Adam Shanna. I feel like this has coming in the 35 00:02:05,441 --> 00:02:08,001 Speaker 2: Grimmer Family podcast. I speak to you guys so much 36 00:02:08,001 --> 00:02:12,601 Speaker 2: about your campaign for Cheryl, and I have to bring 37 00:02:12,641 --> 00:02:15,281 Speaker 2: this up before we get too far in. You suggest 38 00:02:15,321 --> 00:02:17,721 Speaker 2: that I speak to your daughter Melanie, and that's just 39 00:02:17,721 --> 00:02:20,321 Speaker 2: obviously on the site, and I. 40 00:02:20,281 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 3: Said, are you sure you want to do that? 41 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:26,361 Speaker 2: And she's spoken very frankly about your relationship and the 42 00:02:26,361 --> 00:02:28,881 Speaker 2: impact on your whole family, by the way, typified by 43 00:02:28,881 --> 00:02:32,721 Speaker 2: her experience, what this has been like for you with 44 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:38,521 Speaker 2: a single, focused, monomaniacal pursuit of the killer of your sister. 45 00:02:39,881 --> 00:02:43,801 Speaker 1: Look until November of twenty sixteen. I always lived with 46 00:02:43,841 --> 00:02:45,521 Speaker 1: the hope and it was a thing that kept me 47 00:02:45,601 --> 00:02:50,761 Speaker 1: going because carrying blame, hearing your stepfather blame you and 48 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,201 Speaker 1: stuff like that for a lot of years, it took 49 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:56,641 Speaker 1: it top. So what kept me going, getting up each day, 50 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 1: making mistakes every day, just trying to stumble through life 51 00:03:01,481 --> 00:03:04,121 Speaker 1: was the hope that Cheryl one day would just knock 52 00:03:04,161 --> 00:03:06,881 Speaker 1: on the door and say home, big brother, I'm home. 53 00:03:08,561 --> 00:03:12,761 Speaker 1: Then in twenty sixteen, unfortunately, well, I get a call 54 00:03:13,441 --> 00:03:17,321 Speaker 1: and it was from Damien Luhn, who was a detective 55 00:03:17,601 --> 00:03:21,681 Speaker 1: from Wollongong, and he says, are you Ricky Nash And 56 00:03:21,721 --> 00:03:24,641 Speaker 1: I say, yes, I am. He goes, he introduced himself 57 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 1: and he says, Ricky, I've got something to tell you 58 00:03:27,881 --> 00:03:30,081 Speaker 1: and it's in relation to the murder of your sister. 59 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:32,961 Speaker 1: And I you could have knocked me down with a 60 00:03:33,001 --> 00:03:35,681 Speaker 1: feather duster. I mean, that was the first time I'd 61 00:03:35,761 --> 00:03:40,481 Speaker 1: ever heard murder associated, the word murder associated with my sister, 62 00:03:41,841 --> 00:03:44,561 Speaker 1: and it was like, you're just ripping her away from 63 00:03:44,601 --> 00:03:48,761 Speaker 1: me again, right now, You're taking her away, And believe 64 00:03:48,801 --> 00:03:52,001 Speaker 1: it or not, for the first part the months thereafter, 65 00:03:52,481 --> 00:03:55,881 Speaker 1: I was hoping that both Damien and Frank got it wrong. 66 00:03:56,521 --> 00:04:00,561 Speaker 1: I was praying that they got it wrong. And then 67 00:04:00,841 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 1: we find out I think it's around May of seventeen 68 00:04:04,801 --> 00:04:08,041 Speaker 1: that there's a confession, and that confession was made back 69 00:04:08,041 --> 00:04:14,001 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy one. It was graphic, very detailed, and 70 00:04:14,041 --> 00:04:16,881 Speaker 1: I remember the Crown prosecutor at the time saying to us, 71 00:04:17,041 --> 00:04:20,401 Speaker 1: they finally got their man. They've got him fifty years 72 00:04:20,441 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: too late for your family. It is him to get 73 00:04:24,521 --> 00:04:27,441 Speaker 1: a guilty verdict. Unfortunately for you as a family, you're 74 00:04:27,481 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 1: going to have to hear about all of the mistakes 75 00:04:29,481 --> 00:04:33,121 Speaker 1: that were made along the way. We don't care about mistakes. 76 00:04:33,201 --> 00:04:37,001 Speaker 1: We just want a person to answer for taking our 77 00:04:37,041 --> 00:04:38,761 Speaker 1: beautiful sister share All away from us. 78 00:04:39,201 --> 00:04:39,841 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. 79 00:04:39,921 --> 00:04:42,401 Speaker 2: So you've been captured the story very well there, which 80 00:04:42,481 --> 00:04:45,561 Speaker 2: leads us to this point. But you've changed the subject somewhat. 81 00:04:45,801 --> 00:04:49,201 Speaker 2: I wanted to get your impression of what your daughter 82 00:04:49,241 --> 00:04:52,801 Speaker 2: Melanie said as she's telling your story through her eyes. 83 00:04:53,001 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 3: How was that experience. 84 00:04:55,041 --> 00:04:57,280 Speaker 1: I think she had the bravery to open the front 85 00:04:57,281 --> 00:05:00,641 Speaker 1: door for us to sort of start talking. Which when 86 00:05:00,681 --> 00:05:04,481 Speaker 1: I'm back in Australia, I'm currently residing in the Philippines 87 00:05:05,081 --> 00:05:07,601 Speaker 1: when I'm back in Australia. You know, we'll sit down 88 00:05:07,641 --> 00:05:10,801 Speaker 1: and have that chat. That's probably you know, forty odd 89 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:13,641 Speaker 1: years probably not probably thirty five years you're probably too 90 00:05:13,681 --> 00:05:17,801 Speaker 1: younger early years, but probably around thirty five years overdue. 91 00:05:18,521 --> 00:05:21,121 Speaker 1: So as much as I thought I was insane when 92 00:05:21,161 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 1: I started listening to it, it was a very hard listen. 93 00:05:24,001 --> 00:05:26,241 Speaker 1: Let me tell you some of the questions and some 94 00:05:26,281 --> 00:05:28,521 Speaker 1: of the answers she gave. I mean, I wanted to 95 00:05:29,481 --> 00:05:32,081 Speaker 1: murder you both. I think, yeah, I would have thought. 96 00:05:32,401 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 2: I was thinking, Ricky's not going to thank me for this, 97 00:05:34,481 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 2: but it was I kept saying to myself, he asked 98 00:05:36,401 --> 00:05:39,121 Speaker 2: for this. He specifically asked me to do this. So 99 00:05:39,241 --> 00:05:42,241 Speaker 2: part of you needed to have that door opened. 100 00:05:42,801 --> 00:05:46,641 Speaker 1: Yeah. Part of the reason too, I wanted your audience 101 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:50,561 Speaker 1: to hear the impact that it has not just on 102 00:05:51,081 --> 00:05:55,721 Speaker 1: it has generations, like as Mel mentioned, will this have 103 00:05:55,761 --> 00:06:00,001 Speaker 1: an impact on her kids? She's very protective of her kids, 104 00:06:00,641 --> 00:06:04,961 Speaker 1: so hopefully not. Hopefully life can go on as normal 105 00:06:05,081 --> 00:06:09,561 Speaker 1: for my grandkids, but it may not because they're around 106 00:06:09,561 --> 00:06:12,001 Speaker 1: it now. There's a lot of media at the moment 107 00:06:12,081 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 1: they're hearing it. I mean, two of my grandkids are 108 00:06:15,041 --> 00:06:19,081 Speaker 1: teenagers obviously social media. There's lots of stuff going on, 109 00:06:19,361 --> 00:06:22,561 Speaker 1: and they've got lots of questions for their parents and 110 00:06:22,601 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: they have to deal with that, they have to deal 111 00:06:24,681 --> 00:06:29,361 Speaker 1: with something that happened fifty six years ago for their grandkids. 112 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 2: And I should add that Melanie feels that because she 113 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:41,401 Speaker 2: looks like Cheryl, that she represents Cheryl to you as well, 114 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:44,001 Speaker 2: and there's a kind of ambivalence created. 115 00:06:44,681 --> 00:06:47,361 Speaker 1: Yeah, my mother when she was alive, she was sort 116 00:06:47,401 --> 00:06:51,601 Speaker 1: of you know, when Cheryl went missing, she struggled, She 117 00:06:51,721 --> 00:06:56,601 Speaker 1: really really struggled. Then when mel was born, she was 118 00:06:56,641 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: so protective of her in the early years, you know, 119 00:06:59,081 --> 00:07:03,441 Speaker 1: super protective. And did she look at mel as you know, 120 00:07:04,041 --> 00:07:06,681 Speaker 1: is this Cheryl Rebord one type thing? I don't know. 121 00:07:06,761 --> 00:07:09,281 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know what went through my mother's 122 00:07:09,481 --> 00:07:12,561 Speaker 1: head every day. I know Cheryl bubbled at the top 123 00:07:12,601 --> 00:07:15,241 Speaker 1: of the surface every day. And the reason I know 124 00:07:15,361 --> 00:07:17,481 Speaker 1: that is I may have mentioned it before. One day, 125 00:07:17,521 --> 00:07:20,401 Speaker 1: we're walking across the crossing in near where I lived, 126 00:07:21,121 --> 00:07:23,681 Speaker 1: and as we were crossing the road, a woman was 127 00:07:23,721 --> 00:07:26,281 Speaker 1: approaching from the other side, and my mother says to me, 128 00:07:26,881 --> 00:07:31,601 Speaker 1: that could be Cheryl. So it was just bubbling there 129 00:07:31,801 --> 00:07:35,841 Speaker 1: all day, every day, as it does with myself, and 130 00:07:35,881 --> 00:07:38,441 Speaker 1: I'm sure my brother's to a certain degree as well. 131 00:07:39,241 --> 00:07:41,401 Speaker 1: Fortunately for them, they were a bit younger, and a 132 00:07:41,441 --> 00:07:44,281 Speaker 1: lot of it they can't remember, so a little bit 133 00:07:44,281 --> 00:07:45,881 Speaker 1: of a blessing there, right. 134 00:07:45,961 --> 00:07:48,841 Speaker 2: And you and the family have lived the ups and 135 00:07:48,961 --> 00:07:54,361 Speaker 2: downs of this tragedy for years, and I think for 136 00:07:54,481 --> 00:07:58,761 Speaker 2: others close to you, including Mel, they ride the ups 137 00:07:58,761 --> 00:08:03,801 Speaker 2: and downs as well. And when in twenty sixteen there 138 00:08:03,841 --> 00:08:06,601 Speaker 2: was a press conference to anounced the new findings of 139 00:08:06,641 --> 00:08:11,081 Speaker 2: the investigation and existence of Mercury and Co. She went 140 00:08:11,161 --> 00:08:15,921 Speaker 2: there and reunited with you. Then tell that story from 141 00:08:15,961 --> 00:08:16,681 Speaker 2: your perspective. 142 00:08:17,921 --> 00:08:20,921 Speaker 1: In the lead up to that press conference in sixteen, 143 00:08:21,761 --> 00:08:24,161 Speaker 1: we weren't talking. We were sort of a strange and 144 00:08:24,961 --> 00:08:27,641 Speaker 1: I was in a crazy place, and we weren't talking. 145 00:08:27,721 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: And I always kept her informed when something was happening 146 00:08:30,321 --> 00:08:34,001 Speaker 1: in Wollongong, because obviously she carried the name Grimmar, so 147 00:08:34,041 --> 00:08:37,241 Speaker 1: I always kept her informed, regardless of how distant we 148 00:08:37,241 --> 00:08:40,921 Speaker 1: were with what was going on with Cheryl's case. And 149 00:08:40,961 --> 00:08:42,601 Speaker 1: I let her know that there was going to be 150 00:08:42,681 --> 00:08:45,721 Speaker 1: a media conference and if she wished, she could have 151 00:08:45,961 --> 00:08:49,041 Speaker 1: come down and watch. I didn't think she'd show up, 152 00:08:49,041 --> 00:08:52,841 Speaker 1: to be quite honest, but she did. She showed up, 153 00:08:52,881 --> 00:08:56,681 Speaker 1: and I think for the first time she realized, you know, 154 00:08:56,761 --> 00:09:02,241 Speaker 1: the impact that Cheryl's disappearance had had on me. There 155 00:09:02,281 --> 00:09:04,801 Speaker 1: was a picture and we didn't know it was taken, 156 00:09:05,161 --> 00:09:09,001 Speaker 1: was taken by Sydney Morning Herald. That was our first 157 00:09:09,041 --> 00:09:13,001 Speaker 1: little cuddle together in many many years. Really, how long 158 00:09:14,401 --> 00:09:19,161 Speaker 1: been years since we'd spoken. I couldn't tell you many years. 159 00:09:18,881 --> 00:09:22,921 Speaker 2: Yeah, because people listening will be thinking. It's one thing 160 00:09:23,721 --> 00:09:27,201 Speaker 2: to miss all those years, was Eryl. She was so 161 00:09:27,321 --> 00:09:30,241 Speaker 2: wrongly taken away from you. But to have a situation 162 00:09:30,281 --> 00:09:32,921 Speaker 2: where you don't see your own daughter, that's kind of 163 00:09:33,001 --> 00:09:34,601 Speaker 2: cutting off your nose despite your face. 164 00:09:34,921 --> 00:09:38,441 Speaker 3: Some people might say. 165 00:09:37,281 --> 00:09:41,321 Speaker 1: Look, I wasn't a good father. You know, my mind 166 00:09:41,401 --> 00:09:45,961 Speaker 1: wasn't in the right place, and I had Mel very young, 167 00:09:46,641 --> 00:09:51,521 Speaker 1: both me and her mother. I mean we're both really young, 168 00:09:51,521 --> 00:09:55,121 Speaker 1: we're teenagers. I certainly wasn't ready for it, and I'm 169 00:09:55,121 --> 00:09:58,721 Speaker 1: sure her mother wasn't ready for it. I mean, you know, 170 00:09:59,641 --> 00:10:03,321 Speaker 1: just I'm grateful I've got her, but you know, you 171 00:10:03,361 --> 00:10:05,321 Speaker 1: know I would have been quite happy to get through 172 00:10:05,761 --> 00:10:09,921 Speaker 1: without her as well. I mean, it was eighteen nineteen, you. 173 00:10:09,881 --> 00:10:15,641 Speaker 2: Know, fortunately for you, Ricky, love is forgiving. Love endlessly 174 00:10:15,721 --> 00:10:20,201 Speaker 2: forgets the wrongs, and you know that her basic empathy 175 00:10:20,401 --> 00:10:23,641 Speaker 2: and love for you, even when you didn't love yourself 176 00:10:23,681 --> 00:10:27,001 Speaker 2: that much, I think is the bones of what you've 177 00:10:27,001 --> 00:10:29,961 Speaker 2: got to start from now. And I'm really looking forward 178 00:10:30,121 --> 00:10:31,801 Speaker 2: to seeing that. And I think the great thing is 179 00:10:32,081 --> 00:10:34,721 Speaker 2: you've got to demonstrate all this work and effort and 180 00:10:35,081 --> 00:10:38,441 Speaker 2: sacrifice and time away from your family is going to 181 00:10:38,441 --> 00:10:40,441 Speaker 2: be worth it. And that's the perfect segue to the 182 00:10:40,481 --> 00:10:44,441 Speaker 2: news we should be talking about in this episode that 183 00:10:45,241 --> 00:10:48,681 Speaker 2: the top prosecutor in New South Wales has agreed to 184 00:10:48,961 --> 00:10:54,321 Speaker 2: review the case and look at the ruling that Mercury's 185 00:10:54,361 --> 00:10:57,401 Speaker 2: evidence was not admissible because there was allegedly not an 186 00:10:57,401 --> 00:11:01,401 Speaker 2: adult around at the time. I'm going to tell you personally, 187 00:11:01,721 --> 00:11:04,921 Speaker 2: I didn't think you're going to get this. So it 188 00:11:05,281 --> 00:11:10,081 Speaker 2: is a tremendous achievement in itself, because these people don't 189 00:11:10,361 --> 00:11:15,001 Speaker 2: like to admit their mistakes, even when it's generations before 190 00:11:15,201 --> 00:11:18,561 Speaker 2: they've been made. So let's try to put the context 191 00:11:18,601 --> 00:11:20,841 Speaker 2: around this decision for you. 192 00:11:21,481 --> 00:11:25,641 Speaker 1: Yeah, look very grateful to Sally Dowling and the odp 193 00:11:26,361 --> 00:11:31,481 Speaker 1: P for coming to this decision. I mean, it's something 194 00:11:32,361 --> 00:11:35,681 Speaker 1: that our family are fought for. My cousin, doctor Michael Grimmer, 195 00:11:36,361 --> 00:11:42,201 Speaker 1: very very smart individual, put together for amazing submissions through 196 00:11:42,241 --> 00:11:46,441 Speaker 1: to the ODPP for them to consider. And it was 197 00:11:46,561 --> 00:11:49,921 Speaker 1: years of research, around about seven years of research around 198 00:11:49,961 --> 00:11:55,641 Speaker 1: the retrospective law around the suppression of his name, and 199 00:11:55,921 --> 00:12:00,281 Speaker 1: we've given lots of things for the ODPP to reference to. 200 00:12:00,721 --> 00:12:03,401 Speaker 1: Hopefully Sally's considered all of that, and I'm sure she 201 00:12:03,481 --> 00:12:08,801 Speaker 1: has before making monumental decision from the ODPP. It's that 202 00:12:08,841 --> 00:12:11,481 Speaker 1: little crack we've been waiting for. I think I've told 203 00:12:11,521 --> 00:12:14,121 Speaker 1: you many many times, and I've told detectives and I've 204 00:12:14,121 --> 00:12:19,081 Speaker 1: told the media. This person that confess Mercury, he confessed 205 00:12:19,081 --> 00:12:24,881 Speaker 1: in such graphic detail, you know, not just to murdering Cheryl, 206 00:12:25,081 --> 00:12:29,241 Speaker 1: abducting and murdering her. He wanted to physically abuse her, 207 00:12:29,841 --> 00:12:31,921 Speaker 1: a three year old, That's what he wanted to do. 208 00:12:31,961 --> 00:12:37,121 Speaker 1: That's why he took her. One thing's confessing to abducting 209 00:12:37,161 --> 00:12:40,721 Speaker 1: and murdering a little three year old. Another thing is confessing. 210 00:12:40,841 --> 00:12:44,041 Speaker 2: Can I interject there, put yourself in his shoes just 211 00:12:44,081 --> 00:12:47,081 Speaker 2: for a moment, As loathsome as that sounds, would you 212 00:12:47,201 --> 00:12:49,721 Speaker 2: be talking to the media. Would you be you know, 213 00:12:49,761 --> 00:12:51,361 Speaker 2: when you're going to spend the rest of your life 214 00:12:51,401 --> 00:12:53,801 Speaker 2: in jail if you do that. Play devil's advocate here. 215 00:12:54,321 --> 00:12:57,321 Speaker 2: So I'm just going to question your expectation around that. 216 00:12:58,241 --> 00:13:00,201 Speaker 1: If he didn't do it, he wouldn't be spending the 217 00:13:00,241 --> 00:13:02,761 Speaker 1: rest of his life in jail. So if you didn't 218 00:13:02,801 --> 00:13:05,241 Speaker 1: do it, tell us you didn't do it. But his 219 00:13:05,441 --> 00:13:09,521 Speaker 1: silence is adding more to his guilt. The police have 220 00:13:09,641 --> 00:13:11,881 Speaker 1: told us they know he'd done it. The first ground 221 00:13:11,921 --> 00:13:16,281 Speaker 1: prosecutor told us he knows he's done it, like the 222 00:13:16,361 --> 00:13:20,361 Speaker 1: police and the ODPP back in twenty seventeen. It was 223 00:13:20,401 --> 00:13:23,801 Speaker 1: a massive decision. We're talking about a near fifty year 224 00:13:23,841 --> 00:13:27,841 Speaker 1: old cold case at that time. That they've issued an 225 00:13:27,921 --> 00:13:32,601 Speaker 1: arrest warrant, they've issued an extradition warrant from Victoria to 226 00:13:32,721 --> 00:13:36,361 Speaker 1: New South Wales. That's a big decision to make. And 227 00:13:36,441 --> 00:13:39,841 Speaker 1: the two police officers name in lun and Frank Samfittali 228 00:13:40,521 --> 00:13:43,601 Speaker 1: you know as Franken Damon, have both told me they've 229 00:13:43,641 --> 00:13:47,001 Speaker 1: got to be one hundred percent sure before they pushed 230 00:13:47,001 --> 00:13:49,761 Speaker 1: the green light on this, because they're going to rip 231 00:13:49,841 --> 00:13:54,041 Speaker 1: somebody's life apart. Now they don't take that easily. That's 232 00:13:54,081 --> 00:13:57,721 Speaker 1: a big decision. They'd crossed their t's, dotted their eyes 233 00:13:58,361 --> 00:14:00,921 Speaker 1: and now it was time. And everybody thought at the time, 234 00:14:01,001 --> 00:14:04,841 Speaker 1: the lawyers, everybody, Yes, we're going to issue and yes. 235 00:14:04,881 --> 00:14:10,521 Speaker 1: It all happened in the twenty seventeen where Mercury showed 236 00:14:10,601 --> 00:14:15,041 Speaker 1: up at Frankston Police station the week before. He rang 237 00:14:15,121 --> 00:14:18,361 Speaker 1: Frank sam Vitali on the Sunday and said, I believe 238 00:14:18,401 --> 00:14:21,441 Speaker 1: you're looking for me, and Frank goes, yes, what are 239 00:14:21,441 --> 00:14:24,401 Speaker 1: you looking for me for? Frank said, will you tell me? 240 00:14:25,041 --> 00:14:27,921 Speaker 1: And he said to Frank, he said, I asked about 241 00:14:27,961 --> 00:14:31,401 Speaker 1: something I've done many years ago at Faerry Beach. Frank 242 00:14:31,481 --> 00:14:34,441 Speaker 1: as it could be. So what we advise you to 243 00:14:34,481 --> 00:14:36,721 Speaker 1: do is a lawyer and come down to the Frankston 244 00:14:36,761 --> 00:14:39,241 Speaker 1: Police station where we'll be questioning you. 245 00:14:40,361 --> 00:14:41,001 Speaker 3: Yeah. 246 00:14:41,361 --> 00:14:43,961 Speaker 2: Interesting you raised that conversation for Frank was at a 247 00:14:43,961 --> 00:14:47,001 Speaker 2: barbecue at the time, and yes he was. He's talking 248 00:14:47,041 --> 00:14:49,481 Speaker 2: to him and he's quickly mindful that he shouldn't let 249 00:14:49,601 --> 00:14:54,401 Speaker 2: him continue confessing. Normally someone would say, oh, tell me more, 250 00:14:54,481 --> 00:14:56,841 Speaker 2: even though you're on the phone, you know, And I 251 00:14:56,881 --> 00:14:59,641 Speaker 2: wonder what else he would have said had Frank not 252 00:14:59,721 --> 00:15:02,961 Speaker 2: been constrained by the police method and gathering evidence and stuff. Well, 253 00:15:03,041 --> 00:15:06,001 Speaker 2: I wonder what he might have been able to say. 254 00:15:06,041 --> 00:15:10,161 Speaker 1: Then, once again, police doing the right thing. Back in 255 00:15:10,441 --> 00:15:13,161 Speaker 1: nine pine seventy one when he gave this detailed confession, 256 00:15:13,201 --> 00:15:16,921 Speaker 1: police done the right thing. Frank again, the right thing. 257 00:15:17,041 --> 00:15:21,521 Speaker 1: Police have done the right thing. We shouldn't be held 258 00:15:21,681 --> 00:15:26,601 Speaker 1: back by a technicality. If the front line are doing 259 00:15:26,641 --> 00:15:29,961 Speaker 1: the right thing, the police are fighting to get justice 260 00:15:30,001 --> 00:15:33,961 Speaker 1: for families, and then they're tied up by a technicality, 261 00:15:34,681 --> 00:15:36,001 Speaker 1: that's not right. 262 00:15:36,601 --> 00:15:37,801 Speaker 3: I've got to be honest with you, Ricky. 263 00:15:37,841 --> 00:15:41,321 Speaker 2: I think the principle that miners should have an adult 264 00:15:41,761 --> 00:15:44,361 Speaker 2: in the room when they're being questioned, I think is sound. 265 00:15:44,361 --> 00:15:47,441 Speaker 2: We've seen in American in particular, lots of false confessions 266 00:15:47,961 --> 00:15:51,401 Speaker 2: by police after putting pressure on minus. So I think 267 00:15:51,401 --> 00:15:56,041 Speaker 2: that principle is okay. It's using it in retrospect when 268 00:15:56,241 --> 00:15:58,881 Speaker 2: the law of the land at the time allowed for 269 00:15:58,961 --> 00:16:02,161 Speaker 2: that to be done, and he made the statement, there's 270 00:16:02,201 --> 00:16:07,521 Speaker 2: a contemporaneous note of the statement that time, and that 271 00:16:07,561 --> 00:16:12,841 Speaker 2: should stand as evidence you really have willed this opportunity 272 00:16:12,961 --> 00:16:15,161 Speaker 2: to being I didn't want to give it to you. 273 00:16:16,041 --> 00:16:20,041 Speaker 2: As we've said many times in conversation that I felt 274 00:16:20,041 --> 00:16:22,681 Speaker 2: the only way to move things along was to find 275 00:16:22,681 --> 00:16:25,161 Speaker 2: somebody to say no, there was an adult in the 276 00:16:25,241 --> 00:16:28,521 Speaker 2: room at the boys home when Mercury gave the confession 277 00:16:28,601 --> 00:16:31,881 Speaker 2: to the detectives, and I felt that to find some 278 00:16:31,961 --> 00:16:35,041 Speaker 2: new evidence was really the best way to get it 279 00:16:35,081 --> 00:16:37,841 Speaker 2: back in court. But what you'll being confronted with now, 280 00:16:37,961 --> 00:16:41,521 Speaker 2: is there the DPP saying we're going to review the 281 00:16:41,561 --> 00:16:42,801 Speaker 2: application of the law. 282 00:16:43,281 --> 00:16:44,161 Speaker 3: Is that correct? 283 00:16:45,401 --> 00:16:49,401 Speaker 1: You use the word minor. He was seventeen years in 284 00:16:49,521 --> 00:16:52,721 Speaker 1: so many months, nearly what we would classify as an adult. 285 00:16:53,001 --> 00:16:56,801 Speaker 1: Back in the seventies, people were married at sixteen and seventeen, 286 00:16:56,841 --> 00:16:59,961 Speaker 1: people had full time jobs. I look at a minor 287 00:17:00,041 --> 00:17:04,721 Speaker 1: as anyone from sort of zero up to twelve years 288 00:17:04,761 --> 00:17:07,120 Speaker 1: of a then you're starting to become an adult. You know, 289 00:17:07,201 --> 00:17:10,961 Speaker 1: at seventeen, god knows how many months he was. You're 290 00:17:10,961 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 1: an adult, You're not a minor. You've got to understand 291 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:17,241 Speaker 1: he was. And I've made reference to it this week 292 00:17:17,281 --> 00:17:20,201 Speaker 1: and it's come out in the press. Police were invited 293 00:17:20,241 --> 00:17:24,721 Speaker 1: to the shelter because one of his minders contacted police 294 00:17:25,281 --> 00:17:29,201 Speaker 1: and said, we have information. He's told me certain stuff 295 00:17:29,241 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: about a missing girl, Eryl Grimmer. I feel that you 296 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:35,160 Speaker 1: should come down and at least speak to him. So 297 00:17:35,481 --> 00:17:39,200 Speaker 1: police went there casually to speak to him, not to 298 00:17:39,441 --> 00:17:45,161 Speaker 1: sort of hear about a confession. He's surrounded by his terrors. 299 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:49,761 Speaker 1: That's where he resided. I say, he's surrounded by his carerors, 300 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 1: by acting parents. Carers are your acting parents. Okay. He 301 00:17:55,321 --> 00:18:00,160 Speaker 1: obviously was not an easy individual, even as as a teenager, 302 00:18:00,321 --> 00:18:02,521 Speaker 1: you know, running away from home. I don't know what 303 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:07,001 Speaker 1: his background was as a youth. But when he started 304 00:18:07,041 --> 00:18:10,321 Speaker 1: to confess and police cautioned him, done everything right, that's 305 00:18:10,360 --> 00:18:14,600 Speaker 1: all been proven. He's surrounded by his terrors. It goes 306 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:18,001 Speaker 1: to show that were there other people in that room. 307 00:18:18,041 --> 00:18:21,801 Speaker 1: That's what I've sort of asked homicide to look into. 308 00:18:22,120 --> 00:18:25,441 Speaker 1: Who else was in that room, who else was around 309 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 1: on that particular time that he confessed. But again in 310 00:18:30,120 --> 00:18:34,041 Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, when he rocks up to Frankston police station, 311 00:18:35,120 --> 00:18:37,201 Speaker 1: he knew that he was going to be questioned about 312 00:18:37,241 --> 00:18:39,480 Speaker 1: the murder and abduction of Sheryl Grimmer. He knew that 313 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,041 Speaker 1: now any smart guy is going to go down with 314 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:46,921 Speaker 1: at least some type of legal representation. You know, you're 315 00:18:46,961 --> 00:18:50,680 Speaker 1: going to be questioned about that, he shows up again 316 00:18:50,961 --> 00:18:55,281 Speaker 1: on his own, shows up very cocky and adopts that 317 00:18:55,360 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 1: statement again, signs every single page. Now at the end 318 00:18:59,801 --> 00:19:01,761 Speaker 1: of that, at the end of going through it all 319 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:05,241 Speaker 1: the actual interview, at the end of it, he said 320 00:19:05,481 --> 00:19:08,120 Speaker 1: I've never been to Ferry Meadow Beach. It didn't say 321 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:08,841 Speaker 1: I didn't do it. 322 00:19:10,281 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 2: So you go around in circles on the same points 323 00:19:13,201 --> 00:19:16,441 Speaker 2: with respect because you have to, because you've been driving 324 00:19:16,481 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 2: this back at the prosecutors, the government, the police, and 325 00:19:19,561 --> 00:19:23,360 Speaker 2: you had success now and getting to reassess whether that 326 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:27,041 Speaker 2: confession should indeed have been admissible, and I believe it 327 00:19:27,041 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 2: should have been. They should have let the trial run 328 00:19:29,201 --> 00:19:31,321 Speaker 2: the conclusion, let it be weighed up. But to rule 329 00:19:31,321 --> 00:19:34,680 Speaker 2: it out I think was extreme. So what are you 330 00:19:34,801 --> 00:19:37,961 Speaker 2: hoping for in this review given we don't have any 331 00:19:37,961 --> 00:19:41,321 Speaker 2: new evidence? We just have there the prosecutor is now 332 00:19:41,360 --> 00:19:45,801 Speaker 2: willing to review the admissibility of this key confession. 333 00:19:46,561 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 1: Well, you're saying we don't have any new evidence. I 334 00:19:49,120 --> 00:19:53,321 Speaker 1: say we do. I say there's an eyewitness, we have informants. Now, 335 00:19:53,321 --> 00:19:56,680 Speaker 1: there's lots of avenues that police can go down now, 336 00:19:57,201 --> 00:20:01,761 Speaker 1: and really we've given them eleven lines of Investigation. We 337 00:20:01,801 --> 00:20:05,400 Speaker 1: would like them to follow through after all of the 338 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:09,601 Speaker 1: information we've put together since twenty nineteen. We sent them 339 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:13,120 Speaker 1: detailed information through to the New South Wales Homicide. We 340 00:20:13,241 --> 00:20:17,360 Speaker 1: have received a reply from David Laidlaw saying he will 341 00:20:17,360 --> 00:20:20,561 Speaker 1: look into it. He will confer with his colleagues. We 342 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:27,761 Speaker 1: want the ODPP and Homicide and Victorian Homicide to work together, 343 00:20:28,041 --> 00:20:32,521 Speaker 1: these three divisions to work together because if they do, 344 00:20:32,681 --> 00:20:37,120 Speaker 1: and they work with truth, transparency and follow through on 345 00:20:37,321 --> 00:20:43,400 Speaker 1: everything that's become available since twenty nineteen, he will be 346 00:20:43,561 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: arrested and he will be convicted. 347 00:20:47,001 --> 00:20:49,120 Speaker 2: But the point is, if you can find a witness 348 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:55,121 Speaker 2: to the original interview in nineteen seventy one where Mercury confesses, 349 00:20:56,241 --> 00:20:59,801 Speaker 2: that's all corroborating stuff, because getting that confession back in 350 00:20:59,921 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 2: is the main game. 351 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:01,400 Speaker 3: You know that, Ricky. 352 00:21:01,801 --> 00:21:03,681 Speaker 2: So what I'm saying to you is how much hope 353 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:07,241 Speaker 2: do you have that they will come to a different 354 00:21:07,281 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 2: conclusion from what the court held. 355 00:21:10,561 --> 00:21:13,681 Speaker 1: Our whole family hold out a lot of hope. I mean, 356 00:21:14,961 --> 00:21:17,761 Speaker 1: we can't stop until we hear the truth. We just 357 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 1: can't stop knowing what we know. If it were your sister, 358 00:21:22,721 --> 00:21:24,801 Speaker 1: what would you do? What lengths would you go to. 359 00:21:25,001 --> 00:21:27,521 Speaker 1: You know, you just can't stop knowing what we know. 360 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:31,641 Speaker 1: We know everything that's in the confession. We see every 361 00:21:31,721 --> 00:21:34,881 Speaker 1: day we wake up. His demeanor hasn't changed. He just hides, 362 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:39,321 Speaker 1: you know, he says nothing. Recently, a media outlet contacted 363 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:42,200 Speaker 1: him and he had his chance to say something, and 364 00:21:42,241 --> 00:21:44,400 Speaker 1: he just said, I don't want to talk nothing. 365 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:46,041 Speaker 3: And I get that. 366 00:21:46,321 --> 00:21:49,401 Speaker 2: I get that he's hoping to die before he goes 367 00:21:49,441 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 2: back to jail, Which kind of brings me to a 368 00:21:52,321 --> 00:21:55,801 Speaker 2: point that Melanie raised, which is, do you guys differ 369 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:59,281 Speaker 2: on that you have a relentless focus on putting him 370 00:21:59,281 --> 00:22:00,640 Speaker 2: in jail for the murder of Cheryl. 371 00:22:00,721 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 3: That's perfectly just and understandable. 372 00:22:03,120 --> 00:22:05,360 Speaker 2: Melanie takes the position that the fact that he's spent 373 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:10,120 Speaker 2: a couple of years in custody and was publicly outed 374 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:13,441 Speaker 2: as the killer in a pragmatic way would be enough 375 00:22:13,481 --> 00:22:16,920 Speaker 2: for her. Can you see where she's coming from? 376 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,361 Speaker 1: Yeah, But he wasn't publicly outed, was he? I mean, 377 00:22:20,521 --> 00:22:24,321 Speaker 1: he's still hidden today. He sat two years quietly. Even 378 00:22:25,241 --> 00:22:28,481 Speaker 1: where he resided at Long Bay in Sydney. For those 379 00:22:28,521 --> 00:22:33,880 Speaker 1: two years, officers said there he was just cold, calculated, cool, 380 00:22:33,921 --> 00:22:37,201 Speaker 1: as a cucumber, I think were their words. If he's 381 00:22:37,201 --> 00:22:40,120 Speaker 1: done this to Cheryl, what else has he done since 382 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:44,640 Speaker 1: that day? You know he got away after confessing in 383 00:22:44,681 --> 00:22:47,921 Speaker 1: total detail. Police let him walk out and go. See 384 00:22:47,921 --> 00:22:50,001 Speaker 1: you get on with your life. We don't care. 385 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,321 Speaker 2: I get all that. We've talked about that before, but 386 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:55,321 Speaker 2: I mean, I'm just trying to get that position of 387 00:22:55,360 --> 00:22:59,561 Speaker 2: Melaniees where she's saying, if nothing else happens, we've at 388 00:22:59,681 --> 00:23:02,400 Speaker 2: least got that that's not going to be enough for you. 389 00:23:02,521 --> 00:23:05,680 Speaker 1: Is it nowhere near enough be enough for you? 390 00:23:06,561 --> 00:23:07,041 Speaker 3: Probably not. 391 00:23:07,521 --> 00:23:11,281 Speaker 1: It's nowhere near enough. What he says he took her for? 392 00:23:11,481 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 1: Did he do that? Goes through our minds every day. 393 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:17,681 Speaker 1: Did he did he touch her? Did he know rape her? 394 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,521 Speaker 1: He confessed to it, He confessed you wanted to do it. No, 395 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 1: it's nowhere near enough. Two years for a life of 396 00:23:25,961 --> 00:23:29,760 Speaker 1: a three year old, nowhere near enough? Has he been 397 00:23:29,801 --> 00:23:30,561 Speaker 1: publicly added? 398 00:23:30,761 --> 00:23:33,521 Speaker 2: No made listen, I'm going to I'm going to. I'm 399 00:23:33,521 --> 00:23:38,161 Speaker 2: going to pull you up there. Let's talk again when 400 00:23:39,241 --> 00:23:43,761 Speaker 2: we know more. The Independent MP fro New South Wales 401 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,401 Speaker 2: Jeremy Buckingham has got. 402 00:23:46,201 --> 00:23:49,400 Speaker 3: His inquiry at foot soon and Cheryl we mentioned there. 403 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:54,481 Speaker 2: I still feel that more investigation needs to happen around 404 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:58,241 Speaker 2: the circumstances in the boys home. So we aren't talking 405 00:23:58,281 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 2: in a few months time of the government saying, well, listen, 406 00:24:00,961 --> 00:24:03,281 Speaker 2: we gave Ricky what he wanted. He's a review of 407 00:24:03,321 --> 00:24:06,680 Speaker 2: the legislation. He's a review of what happened. Can we 408 00:24:06,721 --> 00:24:09,481 Speaker 2: come to the same conclusion. So I think there needs 409 00:24:09,561 --> 00:24:12,041 Speaker 2: to be more evidence to make sure that there's another 410 00:24:12,120 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 2: reason that they should get back into court. And I 411 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:18,281 Speaker 2: don't think it's insoluble. This was not like a solitary 412 00:24:18,281 --> 00:24:20,761 Speaker 2: confinement situation. There were lots of boys, there are lots 413 00:24:20,801 --> 00:24:23,401 Speaker 2: of staff, and I think to recreate and I think 414 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:27,201 Speaker 2: another great podcast episode should be to recreate what happened 415 00:24:27,481 --> 00:24:31,201 Speaker 2: at that boys home to work out the full atmosphere. 416 00:24:31,281 --> 00:24:33,121 Speaker 2: Is it possible to be in a place where no 417 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 2: one can hear and that no one's walking through and 418 00:24:36,041 --> 00:24:38,681 Speaker 2: no one's sitting in the next chair or one's. All 419 00:24:38,721 --> 00:24:41,561 Speaker 2: we've got is the record that was typed out. That's 420 00:24:41,561 --> 00:24:44,561 Speaker 2: all we have. So I think that's your best and 421 00:24:44,681 --> 00:24:49,640 Speaker 2: main hope of achieving your goal to get that confession 422 00:24:49,721 --> 00:24:52,521 Speaker 2: back in. I'm hoping that the DPP or the prosecutor 423 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:54,400 Speaker 2: might just say, Okay, let's just run it back in court, 424 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:56,961 Speaker 2: and I think that's a just outcome as well. But 425 00:24:57,041 --> 00:24:58,521 Speaker 2: more evidence to me is critical. 426 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, And to get that you need to sit 427 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 1: down with all the people that have come forward, need 428 00:25:05,521 --> 00:25:08,761 Speaker 1: to sit down, get their statements, talk to them. I mean, 429 00:25:08,961 --> 00:25:11,761 Speaker 1: there's an eyewitness that came forward due to the BBC 430 00:25:12,001 --> 00:25:15,240 Speaker 1: podcast Very Meadow, and he said he was there on 431 00:25:15,281 --> 00:25:18,081 Speaker 1: the day. He was young at the time, and he 432 00:25:18,120 --> 00:25:22,041 Speaker 1: actually said to Damian Luhne, I saw a team boy 433 00:25:23,041 --> 00:25:26,360 Speaker 1: carry sher all away. That was the first person that's 434 00:25:26,481 --> 00:25:29,041 Speaker 1: ever come forward. And he said he's carried the guilt 435 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 1: all of his life as well for not coming forward soon. 436 00:25:31,961 --> 00:25:35,360 Speaker 1: Damien Lune spoke to him in detail, believed he was 437 00:25:35,441 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 1: very creditable and even ranging homicide himself, you know, and said, look, 438 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,120 Speaker 1: you guys really need to speak to this eyewitness. He 439 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:45,161 Speaker 1: is very credible. You need to get a statement. Blah 440 00:25:45,201 --> 00:25:49,441 Speaker 1: blah blah. So for Damien, you know, it just wasn't 441 00:25:49,441 --> 00:25:53,241 Speaker 1: a normal police officer. He was a senior detective responsible 442 00:25:53,281 --> 00:25:56,880 Speaker 1: for bringing Chris Dawson to justice. You know, this wasn't 443 00:25:56,921 --> 00:26:01,321 Speaker 1: a police officer that was outright in parking tickets. He's 444 00:26:01,441 --> 00:26:02,561 Speaker 1: very seasoned. 445 00:26:03,041 --> 00:26:03,681 Speaker 3: No, he's very good. 446 00:26:03,961 --> 00:26:07,561 Speaker 2: But you've had some tremendous police officers on the case. Latterly, 447 00:26:08,681 --> 00:26:11,841 Speaker 2: maybe it's not so flash managers and of those police 448 00:26:12,241 --> 00:26:16,360 Speaker 2: and a lot of opportunities were lost. I think again, 449 00:26:16,521 --> 00:26:18,960 Speaker 2: you willed this into being. That's my message to you 450 00:26:19,001 --> 00:26:23,041 Speaker 2: and the audience. You will this into being, and the 451 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,321 Speaker 2: opportunity to get a result is there now, I think. 452 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:29,081 Speaker 3: And you've also been. 453 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 2: Very successful at telling the story yourself through lots of media, 454 00:26:34,521 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 2: and I think it's probably time you told your story 455 00:26:37,120 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 2: without filtering, and maybe a book is the answer. But 456 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:48,521 Speaker 2: that also continues to probe areas that need reinvesting. I'm 457 00:26:48,521 --> 00:26:51,321 Speaker 2: not saying that Damien and Frank didn't look hard at 458 00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:55,041 Speaker 2: the boys Home. I'm sure they did, But within a 459 00:26:55,241 --> 00:26:58,440 Speaker 2: storytelling context, you can pick up a lot more that 460 00:26:58,681 --> 00:27:03,121 Speaker 2: might lead just to some more evidence. So I think 461 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:05,041 Speaker 2: it's time that there was a book with Ricky Nash's 462 00:27:05,120 --> 00:27:07,561 Speaker 2: name on it and we can talk about how that happens. 463 00:27:08,481 --> 00:27:10,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd be more than happy to do that. You know, 464 00:27:10,961 --> 00:27:13,201 Speaker 1: you've sort of got to be careful what you say 465 00:27:13,281 --> 00:27:16,041 Speaker 1: and what you do when you're doing an interview as well. 466 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,241 Speaker 1: I mean, you just want everybody to work with you, 467 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,640 Speaker 1: not against you. You know, I need authorities working with 468 00:27:21,761 --> 00:27:25,161 Speaker 1: our family. I need police working with our family. Am 469 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 1: I happy with the way Cheryl's case has been handled? 470 00:27:28,921 --> 00:27:32,961 Speaker 1: Are our family happy? Definitely not. Lots of mistakes were made, 471 00:27:33,001 --> 00:27:36,441 Speaker 1: but let's push all the mistakes aside. Let's just focus 472 00:27:36,441 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 1: on Cheryl and have somebody answer for what they've done 473 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:41,041 Speaker 1: to her. 474 00:27:41,721 --> 00:27:41,881 Speaker 3: Well. 475 00:27:41,961 --> 00:27:44,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, are you know something else that I think Melanie 476 00:27:44,921 --> 00:27:48,721 Speaker 2: alluded to as well that you have to allow yourself 477 00:27:48,801 --> 00:27:52,041 Speaker 2: some credit for the successes you've had, as you know, 478 00:27:52,321 --> 00:27:53,041 Speaker 2: nothing is going to. 479 00:27:52,961 --> 00:27:55,001 Speaker 3: Bring Cheryl back, okay, but. 480 00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:58,601 Speaker 2: Just having the breaks that you've had in recent years 481 00:27:59,120 --> 00:28:02,001 Speaker 2: is phenomenal. Because I could name you a dozen young 482 00:28:02,120 --> 00:28:05,921 Speaker 2: girls who've never been found, no suspect ever identified. Ever, 483 00:28:06,561 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 2: it's inevitable to compare your situation with other families, and 484 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,801 Speaker 2: I think you're having success, but you're also an inspiration 485 00:28:13,921 --> 00:28:16,440 Speaker 2: for those to keep fighting without getting through ra Rah. 486 00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:20,400 Speaker 1: So yeah, I've had a lot of good help. My cousin, 487 00:28:20,521 --> 00:28:23,681 Speaker 1: doctor Michael Grimmer and the UK. He's relentless as well 488 00:28:23,721 --> 00:28:27,880 Speaker 1: since and he's in a similar situation to me in life. 489 00:28:28,360 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 1: He didn't realize he was part of the Grimmer family 490 00:28:30,561 --> 00:28:33,481 Speaker 1: until late in his life when he submitted his DNA 491 00:28:34,001 --> 00:28:36,920 Speaker 1: and found out he was part of the Grimmer family. Really, 492 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:41,521 Speaker 1: I didn't know who his father was until late in life, 493 00:28:41,641 --> 00:28:43,601 Speaker 1: very late in life as an adult. 494 00:28:43,361 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 3: I don't know that side story. 495 00:28:45,321 --> 00:28:47,281 Speaker 1: Oh there you're go. There's lots you don't know that 496 00:28:47,361 --> 00:28:48,881 Speaker 1: can go into a book, Adam, lots. 497 00:28:49,001 --> 00:28:52,921 Speaker 2: Yeah, right, I think we've covered all the news and 498 00:28:53,321 --> 00:28:55,641 Speaker 2: views that all fit to print. Again, I want to 499 00:28:55,681 --> 00:28:57,361 Speaker 2: thank you for putting forward the idea of speaking to 500 00:28:57,441 --> 00:29:00,361 Speaker 2: Melanie and giving a broader dimension to your family. And 501 00:29:00,401 --> 00:29:02,681 Speaker 2: I'm sure you'll come up with more ideas because you're 502 00:29:02,721 --> 00:29:05,561 Speaker 2: an ideas man. You've kept this story in the light 503 00:29:06,001 --> 00:29:08,601 Speaker 2: and got the due reward. And I don't want to 504 00:29:08,801 --> 00:29:12,441 Speaker 2: say that's the end of itself. It's not, but well done, 505 00:29:12,921 --> 00:29:14,641 Speaker 2: and look forward to the next steps. 506 00:29:15,321 --> 00:29:17,240 Speaker 1: Just keep punching on that, keep fighting. 507 00:29:20,801 --> 00:29:25,081 Speaker 2: That's Ricky Nash, father of Melanie Grimmer, brother of Cheryl Grimmer. 508 00:29:25,121 --> 00:29:25,881 Speaker 3: He'll never give up. 509 00:29:25,921 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 2: And I think this is a tremendous encouragement to others 510 00:29:29,321 --> 00:29:31,801 Speaker 2: to follow the same track. He's been relentless willed this 511 00:29:31,881 --> 00:29:35,321 Speaker 2: into being. I think it's a great story and he's 512 00:29:35,321 --> 00:29:39,001 Speaker 2: doing the utmost for his family, overcoming the inevitable self 513 00:29:39,041 --> 00:29:42,041 Speaker 2: blame of how this story began. One day he'll get 514 00:29:42,081 --> 00:29:44,281 Speaker 2: over that, but I think justice must be done for 515 00:29:44,321 --> 00:29:47,241 Speaker 2: that to happen. It's been selfless. Hopefully the best is 516 00:29:47,321 --> 00:29:49,721 Speaker 2: yet to come. If you have information about this or 517 00:29:49,761 --> 00:29:52,361 Speaker 2: any other crime, please call Crime Stoppers one one hundred, 518 00:29:52,401 --> 00:29:55,480 Speaker 2: triple three, triples zero. If you trust the cops, and 519 00:29:55,521 --> 00:29:57,361 Speaker 2: maybe elements of this story will make you not trust 520 00:29:57,401 --> 00:30:00,641 Speaker 2: the cops, you can always email me Adam Shanner, writer 521 00:30:00,681 --> 00:30:04,041 Speaker 2: at gmail dot com. This has been Adam Shanner for 522 00:30:04,121 --> 00:30:05,401 Speaker 2: Real Crime. Thanksfully, Thing