Speaker 1: I get a champs. I hope you're great. I hope
Speaker 1: you're having a great day, night, walk, workout, bus ride,
Speaker 1: car ride. I don't know all of it. I hope
Speaker 1: it's good. You know why, because why the fuck wouldn't
Speaker 1: I hope that for you. It's a Sunday. It's I
Speaker 1: feel like I'm doing radio again. I'm just looking at
Speaker 1: the time. I'm doing a time check and a station
Speaker 1: ida and a show idea. It's the U Project, It's
Speaker 1: Fatty Harps, It's Jumbo. It's nine past eleven and Kelly Smith.
Speaker 1: I'm very FM right now. Kelly Smith is back. She's
Speaker 1: back to ask me some questions. She's she's done a
Speaker 1: little bit of a tiff. She didn't live in the Bamboo,
Speaker 1: but she's she's slowly just making her way into the
Speaker 1: corridors of typ She was in the foyer for about
Speaker 1: a year. She's made her way up the stairs and
Speaker 1: now she's about three meters from my office and just
Speaker 1: just weaving her way into the team. HIKEL Hi, Craig,
Speaker 1: how are you.
Speaker 2: I'm very well well. I'll get some tips from Tiff
Speaker 2: on how to break down the door, how.
Speaker 1: To infiltrate the bloody the upper echelon. There is no echelon,
Speaker 1: there's no stairs, there's no corridor. It's just it's just
Speaker 1: all a fiction. But I'm glad you here. We had
Speaker 1: fun last time. If you don't know who, kell is
Speaker 1: Kel's a listener who I really like the way she
Speaker 1: thinks and I like the way she asks questions. And
Speaker 1: she came on quite a while ago. She said, Hey,
Speaker 1: I've got some questions, and I went, why don't you
Speaker 1: ask me those questions on a microphone and we'll have
Speaker 1: a chat and maybe maybe that interaction will be of
Speaker 1: interest to other people. And I mean this with the
Speaker 1: most respect because Kelly and I are kind of the same.
Speaker 1: I like the fact that you just a regular human
Speaker 1: with regular challenges and regular questions, and I like, I
Speaker 1: mean as much as I like interviewing famous people who
Speaker 1: are doing cool shit. I love I love talking to
Speaker 1: people like Scottie Douglas, who up today Sunday and the
Speaker 1: other day Scottie Douglas, the paramedic who had cancer, who's
Speaker 1: was a chef who owned multiple Have you heard any
Speaker 1: of him?
Speaker 2: He was great?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I loved him.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, we met and had a coffee because he's a
Speaker 1: mysteriously a fan and a follower of Jumbo, and he's
Speaker 1: like really wanted to get together and had a coffee
Speaker 1: and we had a coffee and I went, you know,
Speaker 1: when you go, oh, you're way more interesting than me,
Speaker 1: it's like, why do you want to hang out? You're
Speaker 1: definitely more interesting than me, So I'm going to get you.
Speaker 1: I said to him, what we're doing right now? This
Speaker 1: is at the cafe. I said, what we're doing right now,
Speaker 1: we need to do a version of what we're doing
Speaker 1: now where a bunch of people can listen because you're
Speaker 1: fucking interesting. And what I love about I don't know,
Speaker 1: I've said this a bunch, but what I love about
Speaker 1: just general normal conversations, where like you and I were
Speaker 1: having a chat before we pressed record, and I was thinking, fuck,
Speaker 1: we should be recording this because we're talking about where
Speaker 1: we grew up, your challenges in mind. I'm like, this
Speaker 1: is actually good to listen to. But I love the
Speaker 1: fact that you know people can and obviously not everything
Speaker 1: will relate for everybody, but you know, the normal trials
Speaker 1: and tribulations, peaks and troughs of just trying to figure
Speaker 1: shit out and find find our things, find our reason,
Speaker 1: find our purpose, find our path, you know, and it's
Speaker 1: a never ending journey. But in the middle of all
Speaker 1: that to have some fun as well. So fuck, that
Speaker 1: was long winded, So welcome back.
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me again. It was there was heaps
Speaker 2: of fun last time.
Speaker 1: Did you get any did you get any feedback?
Speaker 2: There was a few people in the group that commented
Speaker 2: and said they were really good questions, and so that
Speaker 2: was really nice. I shared it with some people at
Speaker 2: work who listened and said that they listened every day
Speaker 2: and they were really surprised to hear me, which was
Speaker 2: really cool. I shared it with my Nan, who I've
Speaker 2: mentioned before. She's ninety five, and.
Speaker 1: Tell the listeners what she said.
Speaker 2: So she starts listening and she said, oh, he's a
Speaker 2: bit sweary. I said, yep, he is. And then we
Speaker 2: get through the episode and she said, tell me again,
Speaker 2: what's his name? And I said Craig Harper. She says,
Speaker 2: never fucking heard of him.
Speaker 1: I love Nan. How old is Nan?
Speaker 2: Ninety five?
Speaker 1: Well? God, bless Nan? Yeah, yeah, bless her. Yeah that's amazing,
Speaker 1: that's amazing. And yeah, well, and so what are we
Speaker 1: talking about today? What was tell people about the general
Speaker 1: kind of theme that you wanted to explore.
Speaker 2: I'm very interested in you talk a lot about how
Speaker 2: there's some people that you've trained before who And there's
Speaker 2: one story that I've heard a few times where you
Speaker 2: say that you know, you had this guy come in
Speaker 2: and then he was really determined, Yep, I'm going to
Speaker 2: do everything, and half an hour later you saw him
Speaker 2: at the bakery with fistfuls of doughnuts and everything. And
Speaker 2: I'm really curious about, given the length of your career
Speaker 2: and the amount of people that you've trained, and when
Speaker 2: is it, who are the people? How many have you
Speaker 2: seen really succeed and actually change what you call their
Speaker 2: internal operating system? So what kind of common factors do
Speaker 2: these people have. Is it like a personality trade, is
Speaker 2: it a level of determination? Is it like a routine
Speaker 2: they put in place? Is there something that kind of
Speaker 2: you can look at someone and go, yep, I know
Speaker 2: that you'll do it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's I mean, like, this is a big conversation,
Speaker 1: So we'll go where we go. But it's a really great,
Speaker 1: great question to explore because for the most part, everyone
Speaker 1: that came to my gyms over the years, you know,
Speaker 1: and we had I don't know tens and tens of
Speaker 1: thousands of I mean I did fifty thousand sessions, and
Speaker 1: then I had five hundred trainers, so we probably did
Speaker 1: millions of PT sessions over twenty five years, to be honest.
Speaker 1: But the commonality is that everybody that comes into the
Speaker 1: room wants to change. Like nobody says, hey, I want
Speaker 1: to spend whatever it was back then, sixty dollars an hour,
Speaker 1: three times a week, one hundred and eighty dollars a week,
Speaker 1: nine thousand dollars a year. And I don't want any change.
Speaker 1: I don't want results. I want to look just right.
Speaker 1: So the common denominator has changed. The common denominator is
Speaker 1: a desire to be different, feel different, look different, function differently.
Speaker 1: But then what a lot of people don't think about
Speaker 1: so much coming in is that, oh, this is actually
Speaker 1: so much about my mind and my emotions and my
Speaker 1: beliefs and my thinking, and my background and my peaks
Speaker 1: and trufs and my anxiety, and it's so much about
Speaker 1: the internal stuff. It's about the stuff that we can't see,
Speaker 1: you know. It's about what are all of the emotional
Speaker 1: and psychological and even sociological drivers of my behavior. In
Speaker 1: other words, I know that I shouldn't eat three pies
Speaker 1: a day, but I eat three pis a day sometimes.
Speaker 1: And when I say everything today, folks, no judgment, just
Speaker 1: conversation and just just awareness, just honesty. And I mean
Speaker 1: I did the same thing. I mean I was. I've
Speaker 1: spoke many times about how I got to a point
Speaker 1: in my own journey where I just started to put
Speaker 1: back put weight back on after being very fit, very lean,
Speaker 1: and because I you know, for a range of reasons
Speaker 1: that I could justify. But the bottom line is it
Speaker 1: was just me making bad decisions and doing bad things
Speaker 1: and then trying to hide my own behaviors. Right. But
Speaker 1: it's trying to figure out what are the drivers of me,
Speaker 1: Like why do I do the stuff that I do?
Speaker 1: And I think, broadly speaking, I don't think there's a
Speaker 1: single answer to that question, because you know, different people
Speaker 1: are driven by, you know, different things. Some people are
Speaker 1: moving away from something, some people are moving towards something,
Speaker 1: some people are doing both. Some people are moving away
Speaker 1: from the feeling that they have when they are a
Speaker 1: certain and weight or shape or size, or hit a
Speaker 1: health state, or they just don't want to be that anymore.
Speaker 1: Other people, you know, drive to their mums on Sunday
Speaker 1: and see a fuck load of people doing a fun
Speaker 1: run and go, I want to do a fun run.
Speaker 1: I want to do a fun run. I want to
Speaker 1: be able to do that that looks amazing and I'm
Speaker 1: going to do what's required to do a five or ten.
Speaker 1: Because so they're moving towards that, but simultaneously, I guess
Speaker 1: also moving away from how they don't want to be.
Speaker 1: So there are these positive and negative motivators or reasons,
Speaker 1: I guess, But like, what makes the difference is, well,
Speaker 1: a bunch of things. But this is weird. But I
Speaker 1: feel like in that this is very very much undercooking
Speaker 1: a very big question. But it almost comes down to
Speaker 1: how much do you want that thing? Really? And a
Speaker 1: lot of people will say i'd really fuck want it,
Speaker 1: and then it gets a little bit hard. They throw
Speaker 1: in the towel. I go, well, you don't really want
Speaker 1: it at all, You just like the idea of it.
Speaker 1: I mean, what are you prepared to do? How uncomfortable
Speaker 1: are you prepared to get? What sacrifices will you make,
Speaker 1: What effort will you make? What things will you start
Speaker 1: doing and stop doing? How long will you do it
Speaker 1: for and what about in this situation? And what about
Speaker 1: if that happens? And what about if you get a
Speaker 1: sore foot? And what if you're at your sister's thirtieth
Speaker 1: birthday and what about? And it's like, oh oh, because
Speaker 1: you know, the truth is that unless it is really
Speaker 1: an inside out revolution, most people go back to what
Speaker 1: they did, like remembering. As you've heard me say many times,
Speaker 1: the best predictor of future behavior has past behavior. So
Speaker 1: if somebody's kind of been not really doing the best
Speaker 1: thing for their body and their health, and you know,
Speaker 1: their function for the last forty five years, for the
Speaker 1: most part, the chances are that all be what they
Speaker 1: do in the future. That is not to say they
Speaker 1: can't change. It's to say that statistically most people won't change. Now,
Speaker 1: big distinction. Ye, So you know it's like I know
Speaker 1: people who've literally been diagnosed with cancer and kept smoking. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm like, wow, wow, no judgment just for me, Like
Speaker 1: fucking hell that And they're not better than me or
Speaker 1: worse than me, and vice versa. But I'm like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, if somebody said to me, Craig, if you
Speaker 1: I don't know, if you ever eat another piece of bread,
Speaker 1: you're going to get whatever. I'd never eat another bit
Speaker 1: of bread, and it wouldn't even be an issue. I
Speaker 1: would just go right. I don't do bread the end.
Speaker 1: Now that's a little bit about how my brain's wired.
Speaker 1: But I think when we can get people to really
Speaker 1: understand their body and their health and all the variables
Speaker 1: and be proactive rather than reactive, like we've said many times,
Speaker 1: people will shut up after this cal By the way,
Speaker 1: people tend to wait till something breaks or something's wrong,
Speaker 1: or they're sick, or they get a diagnosis, or they're
Speaker 1: terrified to get serious. And I'm saying, well, get serious now. Now,
Speaker 1: serious doesn't mean that life's got to be revolving around
Speaker 1: exercise and or gym or beating fucking high this low
Speaker 1: that food for the you know, it's just like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: what's the best system or the best operating kind of
Speaker 1: protocol for you? But invariably it comes down to, on
Speaker 1: the simplest of levels, how deeply somebody wants that and
Speaker 1: how important it is to them, I.
Speaker 2: Think, And is that something that when someone comes to
Speaker 2: you over like when they did over the course of
Speaker 2: your career, were you able to identify that from the
Speaker 2: outset and just go, yeah, I know that I'm working
Speaker 2: with someone here who is going to make that change
Speaker 2: and stay consistent.
Speaker 1: Yes, And I'm not going to say all the time,
Speaker 1: I'm going to say most of the time, I would
Speaker 1: meet with like I actually met with a friend recently
Speaker 1: and a friend of theirs. They asked me if I
Speaker 1: would sit with this other person who was kind of
Speaker 1: spinning their wheels, going around in circles and wanting the
Speaker 1: results without the work, you know, the top of the
Speaker 1: mountain without the climb, And they're like, please, could you
Speaker 1: just talk to this person? And I went. My proviso was,
Speaker 1: if they want to talk to me and they know
Speaker 1: what I'm about, gladly, I'll gladly do it. I'll gladly
Speaker 1: give them an hour of my life and energy and
Speaker 1: focus and forty five years of experience. I'll give them
Speaker 1: all of that. But they have to be fucking boots
Speaker 1: and all right. They need to be. Don't come to
Speaker 1: me if you're not ready. If you're ready, I'll do
Speaker 1: everything I can do to help you. But if you're
Speaker 1: not ready, then you know, carry on, enjoy life and
Speaker 1: get back to me when you're ready. Right, And we
Speaker 1: got together and they're definitely not ready. Yeah, they're not ready.
Speaker 1: And I don't mean that to be arrogant. I just
Speaker 1: know that because I've done that so many times, and
Speaker 1: even a few weeks later, that's proving to be true
Speaker 1: right now. So, like I said to you before we started,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm not. I think one of the reasons I
Speaker 1: am quite consistent and focused and committed when I figure
Speaker 1: out what I want to do, be create change is
Speaker 1: because I thinks I'm not naturally gifted. I don't have
Speaker 1: great genetics. I can't run fast or jump high. I'm
Speaker 1: not brilliant. I'm not I can't sing, I can't dance,
Speaker 1: I can't you know all those things. Which is not
Speaker 1: to say I had no talent or no intelligence, but
Speaker 1: it was to say that if you objectively think do
Speaker 1: I want to get the most out of my body
Speaker 1: and my life and my career and my most people
Speaker 1: are going to go yeah, I do. I do, And
Speaker 1: then I would say cool, how will that happen? Like
Speaker 1: do you want a nine or a ten out of
Speaker 1: ten result? Or do you want to two? Well, everyone's
Speaker 1: going to go I want a nine. I go, well,
Speaker 1: right now, your effort and application is a two, and
Speaker 1: but you're telling yourself it's a seven. So this is
Speaker 1: and this is one of the hard things, real hard
Speaker 1: things in self awareness, human behavior, you know, psychology, personal growth,
Speaker 1: whatever we want to call it, is that we love
Speaker 1: to give ourselves a get out of jail card, and
Speaker 1: we love to rationalize what we're not doing. And what's
Speaker 1: very convenient is when it's not my fault, then I
Speaker 1: don't have to change. So I'm going to go it's
Speaker 1: not me, it's Kelly, Kelly fucking I'd be there, but
Speaker 1: Kelly keeps letting me down. And also Kelly said she
Speaker 1: would she would give me some advice on nutrition. She
Speaker 1: hasn't even called me, and we were going to together.
Speaker 1: She skips every second day. And look, I'm not where
Speaker 1: I should be because of Kelly. And you people go
Speaker 1: as if anywhere everyone does that everyone does. It might
Speaker 1: be about their mum, it might be about their genetics,
Speaker 1: it might be about their boss, it might but the
Speaker 1: amount of people who do not take ownership of what
Speaker 1: they are not doing. Now, I'm not saying there are
Speaker 1: no shit parents or shit bosses, of course, but to
Speaker 1: say that that is the entirety of your subsistence or
Speaker 1: you know, living the life that you don't want to
Speaker 1: live is to go. It's got nothing to do with me. Well,
Speaker 1: that's delusion one I won.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean, look, you know, I haven't been
Speaker 2: there because it's winter and it's cold, so that's why
Speaker 2: I'm skipping every second day.
Speaker 1: So it's not my fault either, one hundred percent. And
Speaker 1: I've got a bit of a saw toe. So you
Speaker 1: can't train because obviously with a saw toe there are
Speaker 1: no exercises you can.
Speaker 2: Do, none, absolutely none. What you said earlier in terms
Speaker 2: of people would come to you and they want the
Speaker 2: training because they want to look and feel different, and
Speaker 2: then ultimately it's mindset and knowing that you know their
Speaker 2: actual internal system has changed and that's their key driver.
Speaker 2: When did you start to realize that because starting out
Speaker 2: as a pt was was that always something that you
Speaker 2: were in tune with or did you go in more
Speaker 2: so about the body?
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I realized. I apologize to people who've heard
Speaker 1: a version of this and even you must heard some
Speaker 1: of this shit thirty times, but it just it's the
Speaker 1: answer to this question in this moment. But I realized that,
Speaker 1: you know, when I was a fat kid who got
Speaker 1: in shape and all of that stuff, and all of
Speaker 1: those things, right, you know, picked last, all that jumbo stuff.
Speaker 1: Right then I got in shape. What was the biggest
Speaker 1: revelation to me was how people treated me. I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm because I went from being really out of shape,
Speaker 1: I mean, morbidly obese to exceptionally fucking fit, like stupidly fit.
Speaker 1: And you know, maybe the fittest, not the most talented,
Speaker 1: not the most athletic, but maybe the fittest kid in
Speaker 1: my school. And then so all of a sudden, I'm fit,
Speaker 1: and I'm doing you know, push up, some body weight
Speaker 1: and chin ups. Hadn't started weights yet, or maybe I
Speaker 1: was just about start weights, but I was in really
Speaker 1: good shape, and my world changed around me, and people
Speaker 1: treated me different. Even adults treated me different, Teachers treated
Speaker 1: me differently, girls. All of a sudden, I wasn't completely
Speaker 1: invisible to the other sex. You know, all that kind
Speaker 1: of teenage angst stuff where you go, oh fuck, now,
Speaker 1: that's all understandable. But the problem with that for me
Speaker 1: was I learned a bad lesson. And the lesson I
Speaker 1: learned was, Wow, the better I look, the better I
Speaker 1: get treated. Now we don't want to hear that. But
Speaker 1: that still happens in our culture today in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1: People think it doesn't you fuck get out and about right.
Speaker 1: It doesn't happen all the time to everybody, but it
Speaker 1: definitely happens. And so then I learned, well, if I'm
Speaker 1: this lean, imagine if I was a bit leaner, if
Speaker 1: I can, if I've got these muscles, imagine if I
Speaker 1: had those muscles, if I had you know. And so
Speaker 1: that for me became a bit of an unhealthy obsession.
Speaker 1: And I that took that took a fair wile to
Speaker 1: figure out. But specifically to your question, when I started
Speaker 1: training people, I was really largely about the body and
Speaker 1: the mechanics of the body, and you know biomechanics and
Speaker 1: nutrition and muscles, and you know sets and reps and
Speaker 1: volume and pushing and pulling and progressive overload and lift
Speaker 1: this and jog there and stretch that, and this is
Speaker 1: how we build muscle, and this is how we build fitness,
Speaker 1: and this how we build flexibility. So very much from
Speaker 1: a my knowledge was not great, by the way, but
Speaker 1: from a fundamental scientific principle place, then then you realize,
Speaker 1: I've been training this lady for six months and she's
Speaker 1: gained two kilos and her goal is to lose twenty.
Speaker 1: I'm like, what's going on? And then I'm like, I
Speaker 1: think she's lying or I think he's lying. It doesn't
Speaker 1: matter who right. Just happened that a lot of my
Speaker 1: clients were women. And then so people would be telling
Speaker 1: me things that just weren't true. They'd be going, oh, no,
Speaker 1: I go tell me what you ate yesterday, and they'd
Speaker 1: tell me, and I'm like, okay. And then a week later,
Speaker 1: I'm like, tell me, and all of the reports on
Speaker 1: the alleged diet did not seem consistent with the body
Speaker 1: that I saw in front of me. And then eventually,
Speaker 1: and I mean I'm talking about not just you know,
Speaker 1: run of the meal human beings. I'm talking about doctors
Speaker 1: that I worked with. I'm talking about people who are
Speaker 1: super smart, intelligent. I mean everyone was intelligent, I guess,
Speaker 1: but you know what I mean, I'm not talking about
Speaker 1: uneducated people too. And I figured out, oh, people bullshit.
Speaker 1: People bullshit about what they do because they don't want
Speaker 1: to be seen as being weak or flawed. They don't
Speaker 1: want to be embarrassed. They don't want to own up.
Speaker 1: And then you know, also talking to people who would
Speaker 1: that'd come into me and they'd be all guns blazing, pumped, exited, motivated,
Speaker 1: in the zone. Fuck, I'm going to change my life.
Speaker 1: And that would last two weeks and I'm like oh,
Speaker 1: and then then just not showing up. And this is
Speaker 1: back more when I was working as a gym instructor,
Speaker 1: right and people would join for like, the amount of
Speaker 1: people that would join a gym for a year and
Speaker 1: come less than ten times, some of them less than
Speaker 1: five would blow people's mind. You're like, oh, as if
Speaker 1: anyone don't trust me, people do it a lot. And
Speaker 1: so then trying it for me to understand what's all
Speaker 1: the humans stuff and the people stuff underneath the body stuff,
Speaker 1: because I'm not bad with bodies, but I don't really
Speaker 1: understand people. So that was and I was probably twenty
Speaker 1: two or three working as a gym instructor, just before
Speaker 1: I started personal training and my first book I wrote
Speaker 1: terrible title but good intention. The book was called Fattitude,
Speaker 1: which is essentially this is pre political correctness right like
Speaker 1: Core of a century ago. But it was really about
Speaker 1: the psychology of getting in shape. And I use getting
Speaker 1: in shape as a blanket term for whatever people want
Speaker 1: to achieve with their body. Right, So, yeah, I was,
Speaker 1: and I'm stillgo. You know, my research, my current research.
Speaker 1: So for me, I'm way more interested in minds and
Speaker 1: brains and human behavior and psychology and why we do
Speaker 1: shit and why we think the way we do. Way
Speaker 1: more interested in all of that than muscles. Muscles are great,
Speaker 1: but you knowuscles just respond to the mind.
Speaker 2: I really like that muscles respond to the mind.
Speaker 1: They just do what you make them do.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. The first time I signed up for a gym,
Speaker 2: I was I think I was about twenty four, so
Speaker 2: you know, a couple of years ago, and I went
Speaker 2: in and it was this great, big, intimidating gym. It
Speaker 2: was actually Broadmeadows Leisure Center, so you can imagine kind
Speaker 2: of what it was like. It was lots of weight,
Speaker 2: it's lots of dudes. And I met with this trainer
Speaker 2: and she was talking me through all of the machines
Speaker 2: and we're coming up with the program and I thought, yea,
Speaker 2: this is great, I can do this. And then she said,
Speaker 2: it's always really obvious when somebody is lying about what
Speaker 2: they eat, because nothing will change with their workouts. And
Speaker 2: I thought, oh shit, like I actually I never thought
Speaker 2: of it in that way. I just thought, if you're
Speaker 2: working out, then you know, you'll get muscle, you'll get lean,
Speaker 2: you'll get fit. Thinking about the nutrition part of it,
Speaker 2: it never well, it never came into my mind in
Speaker 2: my twenties for sure. So to hear that for you
Speaker 2: in your twenties that it just all started to click
Speaker 2: for you that there was all of this correlation between
Speaker 2: mind and body. That's really cool that at that age
Speaker 2: that's what you figured out.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, well you think about think about what are
Speaker 1: some even if we just go through a quick chest
Speaker 1: list checklist, what are some of the things that impact
Speaker 1: the way that your body works or the way that
Speaker 1: it looks or the way that it feels, or its
Speaker 1: body composition, or your immune system, or your energy levels
Speaker 1: or your overall health state whatever that is. You know go,
Speaker 1: oh well, we go, well, there's exercise, yeah, and then
Speaker 1: under that, well there's strength training and fitness training and
Speaker 1: muscular endurance and aerobic endurance and flexibility and balance and
Speaker 1: speed and coordination and like oh fuck, there's just and
Speaker 1: then how much should you train and how hard should
Speaker 1: you train? And how much of this should you do
Speaker 1: versus that and how often? And by the way, what
Speaker 1: is intensity is seven out of ten for me seven
Speaker 1: out of ten for you? No, because all of this
Speaker 1: is unique to the individual, right So, and then oh well,
Speaker 1: how much recovery should I have and how much time
Speaker 1: between sets? And should I train legs twice a week
Speaker 1: or once a week? And should I do interval training
Speaker 1: or should I do steady state cardio training? And should
Speaker 1: I do it on a treadmill? Is that better than outside?
Speaker 1: Or is outside better? Because running on a treadmill has
Speaker 1: got a fucking deck. And right now, that's just one component.
Speaker 1: That's before we get to sleep. That's before we get
Speaker 1: to food. That's before we get to lifestyle and booze
Speaker 1: and drugs and stress. And I mean, what people don't
Speaker 1: understand is there are a fucking million variables that impact
Speaker 1: your body. So you can go to the gym five
Speaker 1: days a week and train like an Olympian and look
Speaker 1: like dog shit and feel like dogshit because you don't sleep,
Speaker 1: You're constantly stressed, you're pumping out cortisol all day, your
Speaker 1: diet is substandard, and you drink booze every day. But
Speaker 1: five days a week you train like a hero. Well
Speaker 1: that's good, but that's like five percent of it, you know.
Speaker 1: So it's it's about optimizing. You know this, and I've
Speaker 1: said this to you before, but it's like I'm like,
Speaker 1: all right, well, I'm sixty one. I can't get another body,
Speaker 1: can't get better genetics, can't get more hours in a day,
Speaker 1: can't undo anything that I've done, can't go back and
Speaker 1: change history, can't wake up tomorrow and b sixty three.
Speaker 1: So with my body, with my genetics, with my fucked shoulders,
Speaker 1: with my time, with my money, with my resources, with
Speaker 1: my intentions and goals, what should I do? How do
Speaker 1: I optimize my body? Now? If we didn't have emotions,
Speaker 1: all we'd do is go, what's the best thing for me?
Speaker 1: And we'd figure that out and then we just do it.
Speaker 1: But we have emotions, so we go and fucking hurts today,
Speaker 1: Kelly looked at me and fuck, I'm back. And then
Speaker 1: we wake up and it's five years down the track.
Speaker 1: It's now two thousand and thirty and we're doing the
Speaker 1: same thing that didn't work in twenty twenty five. And
Speaker 1: then we reach for the excuse jar and go, oh,
Speaker 1: but you don't understand, right, I'm like, I've just had
Speaker 1: I think sometimes people quite rightly, might think I'm intolerant.
Speaker 1: I am not. But I've just had the same conversation
Speaker 1: with people for forty years. So that, Oh, you don't
Speaker 1: understand my body, you don't understand my sits. You don't.
Speaker 1: I'm like, maybe, but maybe you don't understand what's required
Speaker 1: to actually fucking change. Maybe you don't want to do
Speaker 1: the work. Maybe you're in love with the idea, but
Speaker 1: maybe you are terrified of the process. Maybe you want
Speaker 1: to talk about it, but you don't want to do it,
Speaker 1: which is why you're always posting shit on social media,
Speaker 1: but you're never actually fucking doing anything in secret when
Speaker 1: no one's looking, because you want attention. Now, all of
Speaker 1: these things are barriers. I feel like I've opened a
Speaker 1: new door hell insac. All of these things are barriers
Speaker 1: to you becoming independently strong and self sufficient because the
Speaker 1: more we the more we depend. How do I say this,
Speaker 1: The more we are dependent right on accolades and endorsement
Speaker 1: and around of applause. And you're amazing, Kelly. Oh you
Speaker 1: went for a run. Look at you. Oh you posted
Speaker 1: your time and your distance and your heart rate. And oh,
Speaker 1: good on you, and oh look and look what she's
Speaker 1: eating for breakfast, You're amazing. All that, to me is
Speaker 1: such toxic psychological bullshit because all we're doing is looking
Speaker 1: for approval. All we're doing is looking for approval. I'm
Speaker 1: not okay, let me re date that often what we're
Speaker 1: doing is looking for approval. And for me, I know
Speaker 1: it's a very common thing to do, so I know
Speaker 1: I'm probably getting in trouble. But the reason that I
Speaker 1: say it is because I want people to be independently
Speaker 1: committed and proactive and productive. And if people know good,
Speaker 1: if people don't know good, like, what we don't need
Speaker 1: is a bunch of people who addicted, who are addicted
Speaker 1: to attention, who are addicted to positive reinforcement, who will
Speaker 1: not do what's required unless there's some kind of social
Speaker 1: recognition or trophy, because now all we've built is another
Speaker 1: addiction that we have to meet or feed versus you know, like,
Speaker 1: and I'm a fuck up. I fuck up all the time.
Speaker 1: But yesterday I got home at nearly ten o'clock from
Speaker 1: seeing my mum and my dad, and I've been busy
Speaker 1: all day, so I hadn't been for our walk and
Speaker 1: as you know, my rock bottom is ten thousand. And
Speaker 1: by the time I bought all the shit in from
Speaker 1: the card that I looked at my steps and I've
Speaker 1: done like four thousand, five hundred. I'm like, oh goody.
Speaker 1: So I just put on a coat and I went out.
Speaker 1: I went out and I did six thousand steps at
Speaker 1: eleven o'clock. And just because I've got to do ten thousand.
Speaker 1: And I know that life doesn't end if I don't.
Speaker 1: But I go, all right, well, what else do I
Speaker 1: need to do? Nothing in particular, Can I get another
Speaker 1: six thousand done? I can? And so and I know,
Speaker 1: ironically I'm now talking about it on my show, right,
Speaker 1: but for a reason, you know, But it's like, what
Speaker 1: can you do when no one's looking? Because we're trying
Speaker 1: to build habits that are just ingrained, not behaviors, habits
Speaker 1: that are present when someone's looking.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just on that though, and if it's okay, I'm
Speaker 2: going to challenge a little bit about a pro how
Speaker 2: close do you think the idea of approval is to accountability?
Speaker 2: So I know, for instance, I will post some gym
Speaker 2: shots of myself, like I'm not talking about you know,
Speaker 2: posing and all that kind of stuff, but I like
Speaker 2: to share a little bit. I know that people who
Speaker 2: my friends, they quite often will say, oh, we like it,
Speaker 2: and sure, yeah, I post a few things I find
Speaker 2: that I do that like. It's not approval as such,
Speaker 2: more so accountability. And I've listened to and read quite
Speaker 2: a few things where there's people who they might be
Speaker 2: socially isolated or lonely or don't have big groups of people,
Speaker 2: and so they're like, well, for me posting this online,
Speaker 2: it's actually it's pushing me out of a form of
Speaker 2: my comfort zone and it's making me accountable to whoever
Speaker 2: it is, could be the invisible audience that they have. Yeah,
Speaker 2: how close do you think? Approval and accountability are linked?
Speaker 1: Linked? For sure? And I think what you're saying is
Speaker 1: very reasonable, and which is why I backtracked and I
Speaker 1: went not all off it right, And I still think
Speaker 1: it's often. Have I ever put up a photo of
Speaker 1: me doing something? I have? Probably probably twice a year.
Speaker 1: I'll put up a well, probably once a year, a
Speaker 1: photo of me training. And by the way, do I
Speaker 1: like it when people go you look good? Of course
Speaker 1: I do, of course I do. Do I like it
Speaker 1: when I get praise fucking oath.
Speaker 2: Well, are you human?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm a human. I know it's incredible.
Speaker 1: But I think the problem kel is when the behavior
Speaker 1: only happens when we get the attention and the approval,
Speaker 1: and when that is the reason for the I'm doing
Speaker 1: this to get that. So I think it depends on
Speaker 1: the reason, the underlying reason. You know. It's like you
Speaker 1: can do something nice for someone just because you fucking
Speaker 1: love them and you're a good human, or you can
Speaker 1: do something nice for someone because you think you're going
Speaker 1: to get something back. So it's completely strategic, not loving.
Speaker 1: Like it's the same thing driven by a different driver
Speaker 1: or a different emotion. You know. One is I'm putting
Speaker 1: this shit up because when I put it up, it
Speaker 1: just it keeps me in the zone and it might
Speaker 1: encourage a few other people. And like, one of the
Speaker 1: reasons I put up stuff is because I want people
Speaker 1: to see someone who's old, who's in pretty good shape. Yep,
Speaker 1: that's it, you know, But that's why I do it
Speaker 1: very infrequently, but I want, you know, I think one
Speaker 1: of the biggest things, one of the challenges for me anyway,
Speaker 1: is to get people to believe in themselves and to it,
Speaker 1: or at least get curious more curious about their potential.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was another question that I had. Have you
Speaker 2: like those moments? Have you remembered those moments when you
Speaker 2: see that switch flick within someone where it just all
Speaker 2: clicks into place and that you know that Yep, Okay,
Speaker 2: they've got this.
Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you a very current story that
Speaker 1: I've never told because it happened yesterday, right, So this
Speaker 1: is brand new to the you project. So yesterday, my
Speaker 1: dad's best friend is a guy called Gil. And you
Speaker 1: may or may not remember my kind of pseudo mom
Speaker 1: passed away six months ago. Ray. Yeah, she was what
Speaker 1: I called my second mom and I was her only
Speaker 1: son in inverted commas because she's got four daughters, had
Speaker 1: four daughters. All the girls are still around there like
Speaker 1: my sisters. Blah blah blah blah. Anyway, so I took Gil,
Speaker 1: who's the husband my pseudo dad. I chatted to him
Speaker 1: through the week and he's eighty five going on fifty five.
Speaker 1: He's a freak, right, I rang him the other day.
Speaker 1: This is true. So he lives in Morewell, out of Morewell,
Speaker 1: in amongst the what used to be called the stray
Speaker 1: and paper mill, but forests with all these just like
Speaker 1: kilometers and kilometers and kilometers of just trees, and there's
Speaker 1: all these fire trails and dirt trails. So he's eighty five.
Speaker 1: I rang him and it's I was about to hang up,
Speaker 1: and he answered, and he'd answered on his ear piece
Speaker 1: and he'd pressed, whatever, I don't even have one of those,
Speaker 1: and he pressed, and he was on his mountain bike
Speaker 1: on a twenty five k ride in the dirt. But
Speaker 1: this is what he's like. He's a weapon. And anyway,
Speaker 1: he'd spoken to me a bit about, you know, getting
Speaker 1: doing some strength training because he's very very like he
Speaker 1: has a farm, is very bloky, very blokey, buildshit, fixes shit,
Speaker 1: but you know, just doing something too consciously anyway to
Speaker 1: build strength. And I went, well, look, I can come
Speaker 1: over and write your program. I said, but why don't
Speaker 1: we just like meet There's a gym literally five minutes
Speaker 1: from his house. Let's just meet there. I'll take you
Speaker 1: in here. He's like, I don't really want to train
Speaker 1: in a gym, Like he never trained in a gym,
Speaker 1: and so I went, I'll tell you what, Let's just
Speaker 1: meet there. Let's do it there. Because it's much more
Speaker 1: convenient than me trying to teach you shit in your
Speaker 1: lounge room or garage. So I took him there. And
Speaker 1: because he's got a very, very mechanical engineering brain, creates things,
Speaker 1: builds things, and he never really been in a gym
Speaker 1: like that, and he was jumping on you know, like,
Speaker 1: for example, the pinloaded leg press, you know, like the
Speaker 1: one at Snap that you use or I use, and
Speaker 1: he's like, oh my god, look at this, and like
Speaker 1: all of these and just all of these different like
Speaker 1: I just got him to use pinloaded stuff, right, because
Speaker 1: it's a nice starting point. He was just blown away.
Speaker 1: He had he had this idea of what a gym was,
Speaker 1: and that he would look stupid because he's eighty five
Speaker 1: and obviously everyone would be thirty with massive muscles and
Speaker 1: lean and a Miss World contestant or a Mister Universe contestant.
Speaker 1: And he was not that. And he had this whole story.
Speaker 1: And we went there yesterday afternoon at like three o'clock
Speaker 1: in the thriving metropolis of Morewell. While there was you know,
Speaker 1: one bloke and a cat, there was no one there, right,
Speaker 1: And so we trained him. By the end of it,
Speaker 1: he's like I'm going to join. I didn't say, do
Speaker 1: you want to join? He goes, I'm going to join?
Speaker 1: How good is all this stuff? I go, ah, you
Speaker 1: know so? And I think that you know you said
Speaker 1: before you walked into a great big intimidating gym, whereas
Speaker 1: I would go, no, you didn't. You walked into a
Speaker 1: space that you labeled a great big intimidating gym because
Speaker 1: most people in there on that day and not thinking
Speaker 1: I'm in a great big intimidating gym, but you are
Speaker 1: right then. I don't know how long you went there for,
Speaker 1: but I'm sure after a period of time you didn't
Speaker 1: call it.
Speaker 2: That, not at all. Like I ended up going there
Speaker 2: for about three three years, and it was the second home,
Speaker 2: the same way that the gym now is. And it's
Speaker 2: interesting because I got over that and looked at it
Speaker 2: in terms of, well, how can I use this place?
Speaker 2: What can it do for me? Yeah, going to a
Speaker 2: gym is a it's a comfort for me now and
Speaker 2: it's I don't know how us to describe it. It
Speaker 2: does great things for my body and my mind. And
Speaker 2: I remember actually one time bumping into you before we
Speaker 2: really started talking, and my psychologist had said to me,
Speaker 2: what I'm prescribing to you is it will never be drugs.
Speaker 2: It will be exercise. You need to exercise every single
Speaker 2: day and that will be the biggest help for you.
Speaker 2: And that was for anxiety.
Speaker 1: And I was won by the way. What a great
Speaker 1: psychologist whoever he or she is, shout out to them,
Speaker 1: that's amazing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, incredible. And I remember walking in and I bumped
Speaker 2: into you, and you said, so, what are you training today?
Speaker 2: And I was going there to train my brain to
Speaker 2: shed the shit from the day, to really just get
Speaker 2: my mind in shape. And I said, legs and just
Speaker 2: walked in because it was still we didn't know each
Speaker 2: other all that well then, and it wasn't really at
Speaker 2: a time socially we're talking about mental health was something
Speaker 2: that was so open, whereas now it's like, well, no,
Speaker 2: I actually for my mind need to go in and
Speaker 2: do all of that. So yeah, so you're right, Like
Speaker 2: initially it was, it was big and intimidating, and then
Speaker 2: after that I was like, no, no.
Speaker 1: This is great and this is beautiful, right because this
Speaker 1: is the this is back to the subjective objective what
Speaker 1: it is how I see it, you know, the objective
Speaker 1: reality of something. Oh, it's a space, it's got equipment,
Speaker 1: equipment in it. My story is it's great and big
Speaker 1: and intimidating. Right, that's your story. And by the way,
Speaker 1: there's no criticism in this because I've you know, I've
Speaker 1: gone in front of academic panels of four people, by
Speaker 1: the way, four people the guy who talks to a
Speaker 1: thousand in a room, and I'm like, this is the
Speaker 1: most terrifying fucking experience in my life. This is you know.
Speaker 1: And it's like, well, no, that's your that's your version
Speaker 1: of it, Craig. It's just four people listening to you talk.
Speaker 1: But I'm like, oh yeah, but I'm the dumbest in
Speaker 1: the room by a million miles. And this is their
Speaker 1: this is their natural habitat. I'm not an academic blah blah.
Speaker 1: I have this whole story. And I've done four of those,
Speaker 1: now what they're called academic milestones through your PhD, And
Speaker 1: the first one to the last one was a very
Speaker 1: different experience, you know, because you're like, ah, I get it.
Speaker 1: And all of the trauma is created by my thinking,
Speaker 1: all of the discomfort is a result of my story
Speaker 1: about the big intimidating gym or the big intimidating academics
Speaker 1: looking at me, listening to me, which is not to
Speaker 1: say it's not real. It's real, but it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: it's that old chestnut you lift the ten kilos and
Speaker 1: it's so heavy, and then one day it's so light,
Speaker 1: but it's actually the exact same way, Like why is
Speaker 1: it light now? Well, because I've changed, I've adapted. I'm different.
Speaker 1: Therefore my relationship with that thing is different. The thing
Speaker 1: that was hard is now easy. And that's like that's
Speaker 1: with everything. That's like with public speaking. That's like with
Speaker 1: talking to Craig Harper in the gym. You know you
Speaker 1: might have been intimidated and then now you're comfortable. You
Speaker 1: know you were like, oh far, I don't know how
Speaker 1: you were, but I'm guessing that your experience talk to
Speaker 1: me on day one, and not that I'm special or anything,
Speaker 1: but I've just been told so many times how fucking
Speaker 1: terrifying I am, so I must be.
Speaker 2: I wasn't. No, I wasn't terrified. I'm sure intimidated, but
Speaker 2: you know that was probably at that stage intimidated by everyone.
Speaker 2: I was curious, and I think I said this last time,
Speaker 2: like I would just notice the amount of people that
Speaker 2: were almost lining up to talk to you. And I
Speaker 2: was like, who on earth is this person? And I
Speaker 2: remembered I was seeing a natural path in Hampton and
Speaker 2: she was friends with you. And then I kind of
Speaker 2: put it together. And then there was one day we're
Speaker 2: reading the paper on my partner said, this is the
Speaker 2: dude from the gym. What's he doing in the paper?
Speaker 2: And yeah, And that's how it all kind of came
Speaker 2: together as to who you are. And I'm like, that's
Speaker 2: why people want to talk to him, because he knows shit.
Speaker 1: That's funny, that's funny, that's funny. Well, you know, I
Speaker 1: mean it's I just think I don't know if I
Speaker 1: should yet fuck it. So he's another first. He's another
Speaker 1: first on today's episode again brand new. I'm not positive
Speaker 1: about what I'm about say, but I'm about ninety percent.
Speaker 1: So I'm writing a new workshop. Right, Melissa might punch
Speaker 1: me in the face. But Melissa, if you edit this
Speaker 1: where you can edit it out or you can punch
Speaker 1: me in the face of both. But so I'm writing
Speaker 1: a new workshop which I'm going to wheel out around
Speaker 1: Australia too, you know, all around. So I think I'm
Speaker 1: going to most major cities between kind of August and
Speaker 1: the end of the year. And the workshop is called
Speaker 1: the You Experiment, right, and it's about it's about the
Speaker 1: reality that what will work for Kelly won't work for Jane.
Speaker 1: What will be optimal for Kelly could be catastrophic for Sally. Right,
Speaker 1: what will work for my training partner the crab won't
Speaker 1: work for me for a range of reasons, or it
Speaker 1: might kind of work kind of the same, or and
Speaker 1: it's trying to figure out okay for me in you know,
Speaker 1: if we personalize it to you, for me, for Kelly Smith,
Speaker 1: what's the best job for me? What's the best environment
Speaker 1: for me to work in? How do I best what's
Speaker 1: the best kind of leadership style for me? Or how
Speaker 1: do I be a great team member? Or what what
Speaker 1: about what time of the day should I eat? How
Speaker 1: much sleep do I need?
Speaker 2: Do it?
Speaker 1: What about I don't know does fruit juice work for me?
Speaker 1: Or do I just crank out too much insulin? Or
Speaker 1: what about how do I deal with stressful situations? What
Speaker 1: works for me? And so in the world of self
Speaker 1: help and psychology and personal developments, and it's almost like
Speaker 1: this siloed kind of thinking of, oh, well, you need
Speaker 1: to try harder, be more, you know, be your best self,
Speaker 1: live your best life, and you know, like fast and
Speaker 1: eat this many meals and fucking lift weights and maybe
Speaker 1: you know, or don't lift weights. Maybe go rock climbing
Speaker 1: or maybe do pilates, or maybe do body weight exercise,
Speaker 1: or maybe fucking climb a tree. Or maybe maybe don't
Speaker 1: go for a run, maybe hike in nature. Maybe don't
Speaker 1: sit on an exercise bike, maybe get a real bike.
Speaker 1: Maybe don't take drugs because your psychologist said you don't
Speaker 1: need to, so you go for a walk or you
Speaker 1: go to the gym. You know. It's so like my
Speaker 1: whole thing is trying to get the message out that
Speaker 1: despite what you get told, there is almost nothing that
Speaker 1: works for everybody equally. Yeah, yeah, I don't think. I
Speaker 1: can't think of one thing where this diet, this protocol,
Speaker 1: this strategy, this workout, this amount of sleep, whatever it is,
Speaker 1: where that particular approach to solving that problem where the
Speaker 1: answer is the same for everybody, because it just doesn't exist.
Speaker 2: No, it can't. And we discussed that last time as well,
Speaker 2: that the one size fits all is just ridiculous. And
Speaker 2: then after that discussion, I was reading from another podcast
Speaker 2: as she was saying, I'm so fed up with the
Speaker 2: fitness industry because for five minutes, you're told to do
Speaker 2: hit and then you're told to do CrossFit, and then
Speaker 2: you're told to go for a run, and then you're
Speaker 2: told to fast, and then you're told that you need
Speaker 2: to have threely of water a day, and then you're
Speaker 2: told that you need to do this, but hold on,
Speaker 2: that's not on trend anymore, so you need to do this,
Speaker 2: and then you need to wear these shoes. And she said,
Speaker 2: it is so overwhelming, and I'm so sick of it,
Speaker 2: and I just want to do what is right for
Speaker 2: me without being told that this or that is right
Speaker 2: for me. And she said, so I'm off to pilates
Speaker 2: because that's what I enjoy and if I enjoy it,
Speaker 2: then I'll stick with it. And I thought great.
Speaker 1: And her frustration is I'm sure very common, you know,
Speaker 1: very shared. So I think I think you know like
Speaker 1: and we've spoke many times about tracking data, you know.
Speaker 1: That's why I call it the you experiment. It's like,
Speaker 1: figure out what you know, Like, do you want to
Speaker 1: see how your body responds to weights? Do three days
Speaker 1: a week for six weeks. See what happens. You might
Speaker 1: get great results, you might not. You might love it,
Speaker 1: you might hate it. You might last four sessions and
Speaker 1: go fuck this, or you know, maybe you'll go, I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna I'm going to give up coffee. I might
Speaker 1: do four weeks without coffee and see what happens, you know,
Speaker 1: or I might like me when I started walking my
Speaker 1: minimum ten thousand steps a day. It's the single best
Speaker 1: thing that I've done for me in the last five years,
Speaker 1: and such a fundamental, basic, simple thing, like not that
Speaker 1: I not that I care so much about what I weigh,
Speaker 1: but I pretty quickly lost four kilos, which i've so
Speaker 1: I was eighty five for the last twenty years, give
Speaker 1: or take, and now maybe one. I stay there. I
Speaker 1: haven't lost any strength. If I've lost any muscle, I don't.
Speaker 1: I can't see it. Maybe I have. But my brain
Speaker 1: works better, my energy is better, I think my you know,
Speaker 1: like my attitude, my emotions are better. I enjoy being
Speaker 1: out there. The back issues that I've had for twenty
Speaker 1: years seem to be touchwood miraculously gone because I'm just
Speaker 1: walking so much. And I also do some backward walking
Speaker 1: by the way. Everyone backward walking obviously in the right
Speaker 1: place and done the right way, it can be fucking precarious.
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about, you know, along Chapel Street. But
Speaker 1: you know, it's just like, oh, who would have thought
Speaker 1: that the exercise scientists with a million years of experience
Speaker 1: and all of this shit would discover in inverted commas
Speaker 1: that walking was fucking groundbreaking? And you know, for me,
Speaker 1: just amazing. And the guy that used to only run
Speaker 1: five to fifteen k's who does three two kilometer runs
Speaker 1: a week. In the old days, they would have gone
Speaker 1: two kilometers. Fuck two kilometers. What's the benefit of two kilometers?
Speaker 1: You're not even more You're not even getting out of
Speaker 1: the house. And now I go out the side gate,
Speaker 1: I run like Phoebe Buffet. If anyone watches friends, you know,
Speaker 1: I run like a crazy person for two k's. I
Speaker 1: get home in about whatever nine or ten minutes and
Speaker 1: I go boom. That's me. And it's literally thirty minutes
Speaker 1: or twenty five minutes a week of my life. And yeah,
Speaker 1: it just but you just figure out what works. So
Speaker 1: that's I've spent my life figuring out what works for
Speaker 1: me and trying to help others do the same.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know maybe with this new around the
Speaker 2: country experiment, you might meet a few people where you
Speaker 2: know you can just look at them and go, you're
Speaker 2: going to do it.
Speaker 1: Well, it's always good talking to you. Be quite good
Speaker 1: at this. What's on for the rest of the day
Speaker 1: for you, It's Sunday.
Speaker 2: Well, actually we're going for a walk. We're heading to
Speaker 2: the botanical gardens and we're going for a walk. So
Speaker 2: Sunday is a rest from the gym. I go six
Speaker 2: days and today it's a walk.
Speaker 1: Beautiful. Will you enjoy your walk, You enjoy your week
Speaker 1: at work, and always appreciate you coming on to the
Speaker 1: new project and grilling me. Thanks Cal, Thanks Craig.
Speaker 2: It was fun.