1 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: Good day, Welcome to the show. This is Better than Yesterday. 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 1: Useful tools and useful conversations to help make your day 3 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:10,360 Speaker 1: to day better than yesterday. Every episode since twenty thirteen, 4 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: a's Olshagenzberg. I'm glad you're here if you're listening to 5 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:16,800 Speaker 1: this when it comes out. Wow, Look, it's one of 6 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 1: those moments in history of the world when two things 7 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 1: can be true at the same time. We still need 8 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:24,959 Speaker 1: to get up every day and you know, pack the 9 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: school lunches or head to UNI your work, or do 10 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: whatever we've got to do. And the US and Israel 11 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: they're busy turning large chunks of the Middle East into 12 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: rubble with ramifications that could lead anywhere. For Gee's petrol's 13 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: expensive to nuclear winter. It's a lot, and depending on 14 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:45,839 Speaker 1: how much of it you're engaging with, it can be 15 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: overwhelming to be that feeling of the floor kind of 16 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: dropping out from underneath you when the world you thought 17 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 1: you're understood suddenly doesn't really make sense anymore. You don't 18 00:00:55,560 --> 00:01:00,080 Speaker 1: you don't really know who you are inside this place now. 19 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 1: As you know, I'm writing another book which is based 20 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:04,839 Speaker 1: on the conversations I've had here on the podcast and 21 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 1: I've just unearthed some absolute gems from the archive, including 22 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 1: some brilliant wisdom from when Tarnie Schultz came on the show. 23 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: Tarni is a highly experienced psychologist who at the time 24 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:20,759 Speaker 1: we spoke, had spent the most recent years of her 25 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 1: career specializing in critical incident response. So like when the 26 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 1: elite police rescue people are called, or you know, the 27 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 1: critical care paramedics, or I don't know the name of 28 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: the fire department people of that, the really elite ones, 29 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 1: Taranese phone would ring as well. She's worked with various 30 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 1: people involved in and affected by things like the tragic 31 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 1: passing of cricketer Philip Hughes, the Sydney Lint Cafe siege, 32 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: several royal commissions, and the Nepal earthquake's rescue missions. She's 33 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 1: essentially like a mental health paramedic, but instead of a 34 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: medical kit full of butterflalo stitches and IV trips, She's 35 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 1: got her words and her knowledge to assist with the 36 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 1: mental trauma of a situation with great physical trauma still 37 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: present and sometimes danger still happening. Sometimes she is there 38 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 1: with the patient while they're still trapped in wreckage. For example, 39 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:14,360 Speaker 1: now you can't really talk about trauma without getting too 40 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 1: the weeds a bit, So if this conversation does bring 41 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 1: anything up, please call Lifeline on thirteen eleven fourteen. Like 42 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:22,800 Speaker 1: I said, Tanni has spent her career sitting with people 43 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: right after the moment of trauma, or sometimes in that 44 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 1: moment of trauma, and what she's found again and again 45 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:34,079 Speaker 1: and again is that healing isn't necessarily about what's happened. 46 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 1: It's about what you do with how it made you feel, 47 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 1: and the radical permission you can give yourself to rebuild 48 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 1: meaning out of that. Now, I can understand this in 49 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:45,959 Speaker 1: an intellectual sense talking to you right now, it makes 50 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: perfect sense. But how do I access that feeling on 51 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 1: a Wednesday afternoon when I mean heavy traffic and my 52 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:52,360 Speaker 1: phone ringing it and someone I've been avoiding, and I'm, oh 53 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 1: my god, I can't do this well Tani. Tani has 54 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:01,240 Speaker 1: a deceptively simple answer to this question, something that can 55 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 1: boost resilience in those really hard moments, and it involves 56 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: a few interesting things. Your brain's neurochemistry, your sense of self, 57 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 1: and a jelly bean jar. 58 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 2: I think keep it simple, first of all, like it's 59 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 2: the simple things in life, so often we don't actually 60 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 2: appreciate those really simple things and the impact that it 61 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 2: can have on our brain and our well being. But 62 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:25,639 Speaker 2: I guess checking in first of all with your values 63 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 2: and what are the things that are actually fundamentally important 64 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:29,799 Speaker 2: to you, and also approaching the world with a huge 65 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 2: amount of curiosity. So you know, for a lot of us, 66 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 2: we don't really know what are those things that we enjoy, 67 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 2: but once we kind of approach the world with it 68 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 2: might be minigolfer, it might be tennis, it might be 69 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 2: splashing around in puddles, like a day like today, get 70 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 2: your gum boots on and go go nuts. It's about 71 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 2: developing really genuine and authentic relationships with people and squeezing 72 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 2: their face and you know, and giggling with one another 73 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 2: about silly things. That's connecting with that inner child and 74 00:03:55,680 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 2: you again, those really simple things that often when world 75 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 2: becomes so serious, particularly when we're adults, we forget, are 76 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 2: so damn important. 77 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 3: And that literally is what I call shaking a jelly 78 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 3: bean jar. 79 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 2: So in your brain, I see it like there's almost 80 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 2: several different colors of jelly beans, and these your pleasure chemicals, 81 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 2: like your dopamine, your serotonin and your oxytocin yournuraf and 82 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:18,599 Speaker 2: there's all of these different pleasure chemicals you have, and 83 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 2: every time you do something good, it shakes you jelly 84 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 2: bean and jelly bean strict all through your body make 85 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,720 Speaker 2: you feel good. And it's incredibly important for our resilience, 86 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 2: but also from in terms of and when I talk 87 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:32,920 Speaker 2: about resilience, like your locus of control, when you know 88 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 2: that there are things that are really simple that you 89 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 2: can do that can make you feel good. One, it 90 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:41,039 Speaker 2: helps you relieve stress and inflammation, which causes disease, but 91 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 2: it also means that this world just feels fun and meaningful, 92 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 2: like you know, and you've got a hunger to be. 93 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:46,160 Speaker 3: Part of it. 94 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 2: And that helps us determine a strong locus of a control, 95 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 2: a sense that we are responsible for our own happiness 96 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 2: and we can do things very simply and easily to 97 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 2: be able to find meaning and purpose in this world. 98 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 2: So we don't feel a little bit like a plastic 99 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 2: bag in the wind. We feel like we're the one directing. 100 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 2: We're kind of the captain at the front of the ship. 101 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 4: Yeah, you're talking my language of so many levels tiny 102 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 4: because I certainly know that when I when I went 103 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:15,719 Speaker 4: through I don't know if you know, but I got 104 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:17,719 Speaker 4: I got very, very sick, and I ended up experiencing 105 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 4: psychosis and experiencing paranoid delusion, and I had to be 106 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:23,719 Speaker 4: on a lot of drugs for a long time until 107 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 4: it kind of got better. I was really grateful for 108 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,039 Speaker 4: those those medications. I'm not on them now and I 109 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,479 Speaker 4: still manage you know, it's still around, like it's still 110 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 4: kind of flicks in and out, but I can manage it. 111 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:38,280 Speaker 3: And what a phenomenal thing, Like. 112 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 4: It's extraordinary. It's extraordinary that I was able to. I 113 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 4: did a lot of work. 114 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 3: I bet you it's not Yeah, you. 115 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 4: Know, I don't want to talk about it. I talk 116 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:47,479 Speaker 4: about it all the time. It's like, it's not like 117 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:50,839 Speaker 4: you take a paracetamol and then the headache goes away. No, 118 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:53,840 Speaker 4: the drugs are the five point safety harness that you 119 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:55,480 Speaker 4: wear so you can do the rally driving. 120 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, they're like the CPR, but you've still got to 121 00:05:58,000 --> 00:05:58,800 Speaker 3: live the life. 122 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 4: That this gives you. The seat belt so you can 123 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 4: drive through the super scary rally going forest to get 124 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 4: out of and do the work to help you get 125 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 4: new thinking patterns in because you can't just otherwise what 126 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 4: you just a sedated piece of mashed potato into your life, 127 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:16,159 Speaker 4: and that's a lot of work that's no way to left. 128 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 1: So medication was one part of me getting some different 129 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:23,359 Speaker 1: colors of jelly beans back into my jar. That's not 130 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 1: always the case for some people. What Tanani's describing there 131 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 1: isn't a treatment plan per se. She's describing a way 132 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 1: of life that helps keep us resilient. Those small moments, 133 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:41,600 Speaker 1: they're not consolation prizes for when everything went sideways. They 134 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 1: are the fuel which feeds the engine that keeps our 135 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 1: life moving forward. And once we can understand that shaking 136 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: the jar is something we can choose to do, that 137 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:55,039 Speaker 1: hunger to be a part of the world, it starts 138 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 1: to return. Now, considering what's happening in the news right now, 139 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:02,360 Speaker 1: there's there's not a day that goes by where something 140 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: horrible doesn't fly in front of us, right But aside 141 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:08,159 Speaker 1: from that, most of us carry something inside that maybe 142 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: we haven't named an event and experience a moment that 143 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: might have changed something about how we move through the world, 144 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 1: and maybe perhaps we've told ourselves we don't really have 145 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 1: the right to call it trauma, someone else had it worst, 146 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 1: we leave it, We leave that where it is now. 147 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 1: Tani was very very clear about the perils of that 148 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 1: comparison trap. But it's what she said after that about genetics, 149 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 1: about DNA, about what we can unknowingly pass on if 150 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 1: we don't look after this stuff. That's the part I 151 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:39,679 Speaker 1: really wanted you to hear today. 152 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 2: First of all, from this from the trauma point, I 153 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 2: think it's really important for people to know that trauma 154 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 2: isn't by the definition of the experience itself. 155 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 3: It's how it made you feel. 156 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 2: And trauma is different for everybody, And so it's important 157 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 2: for you to be able to acknowledge yourself if you 158 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 2: and give yourself permission to say I have been through trauma, 159 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 2: if you know that you felt trauma by the experience. 160 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 2: You know, so often we say I don't have the 161 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 2: right to say I've been traumatized or I've gone through 162 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 2: trauma because mine wasn't anywhere worse is than somebody else's. 163 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 2: And we shouldn't compare, you know, our cells that way. 164 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 2: It's not well, that person got hit by a car 165 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 2: and I only got slapped on the face. It doesn't 166 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 2: work that way. It's how you felt, how it made 167 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 2: you feel. That is the final definition of trauma. It 168 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 2: is really really important that we give ourselves that permission 169 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 2: and that opportunity to process trauma. But it has to 170 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 2: be done in a really with a lot of dignity, 171 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 2: you know, there has to be it's first giving yourself 172 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 2: that permission to be able to process that and create 173 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:41,199 Speaker 2: an empowering narrative. This experience is not the totality of 174 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:44,080 Speaker 2: your existence. It's a moment in time, and you are 175 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 2: more and greater than that experience. But we do know 176 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 2: that it can fundamentally impact our whole being if. 177 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 3: We don't process it. 178 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 2: When we look at the different layers you know, we've 179 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 2: got in terms of our genetics, it's now being proven 180 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 2: that when we've been through a trauma, our genetic code 181 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 2: is fundamentally changed, which is huge. And the kindest thing 182 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 2: that you can ever do for yourself and for the 183 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:12,080 Speaker 2: children that you may produce is to process that trauma 184 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 2: before you have children, if you can, because it sits 185 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 2: in their DNA code, but they can't unravel it the 186 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 2: way you can. So there's something incredibly important if you 187 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 2: can give yourself that permission, but doing it in an environment 188 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 2: where someone cares about you, where they're respectful of you, 189 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:32,200 Speaker 2: and they give you dignity and space to be able 190 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:34,560 Speaker 2: to unravel that and to know that they're there because 191 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 2: it's going to get ugly. It's going to get ugly 192 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 2: before it gets pretty. To unravel that, and having someone 193 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 2: to walk side by side with you to do so, 194 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 2: it's one of. 195 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 3: The greatest gifts you could give yourself, your children, and 196 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 3: the world. 197 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 1: When I had a conversation with Tarney, I was a stepfather, yes, 198 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 1: Wolfe hadn't come into our lives at that point, and 199 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 1: as a son of two refugees, I had a kind 200 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 1: of an idea that this sort of thing could happen. 201 00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 1: But when TARNEI dropped that one on me, I just 202 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 1: had to kind of sit and steer at the wall 203 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: after she left for a bit, and it really reignited 204 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 1: within me the drive to make a choice. I could 205 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 1: not address this stuff that had happened to me and 206 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 1: unknowingly affect my kids with it, or I could be 207 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 1: a part of not carrying that negative stuff forward, stuff 208 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 1: which may have come from great grandparents I never knew, 209 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 1: And that really helped give me the nudge to get 210 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 1: stuck into the work of looking at the parts of 211 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: me that I'd rather not look at, but knowing I 212 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:32,719 Speaker 1: wasn't doing it just for me, we do need to 213 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 1: take a quick break. On the other side of this, 214 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 1: Tarni speaks about how we might handle when the thing 215 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 1: that's really bothering us maybe didn't happen to us, whether 216 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 1: you were there witness in real life or maybe you 217 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 1: saw it on your phone or something, but it's still 218 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 1: really bothering you. And though we might not feel I 219 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 1: don't deserve going to get help, I shouldn't feel bad 220 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:53,680 Speaker 1: about this. 221 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 3: Well. 222 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 1: Tarne's got some very strong words on the other side 223 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 1: of this. Thanks for listening to the show. Just before 224 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 1: we get back and I'm a conversation with Tarney Shultzer. 225 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: A reminder that Story Club's next show is happening on 226 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 1: the twelfth of April. It's at the Factory Theater. It's 227 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 1: Australia's longest running live comedy storytelling show. Humongous lineup. James Colly, 228 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:23,559 Speaker 1: he's one of the He's the head writer for gruin Beck. Melrose, 229 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 1: She's done it before. She's amazing. Richard Glover, deb Oswald. 230 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 1: Though we're not in Laune and myself April twelfth. Tickets 231 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 1: are in the show notes. I'd love to see you there. 232 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 1: It's a lovely night too. Come and shake a jelly 233 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 1: bean jar with us. Yeah, it's pretty fun because being 234 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: with other people laughing about stuff. That's that's some jelly 235 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:41,200 Speaker 1: bean jar shake and stuff. I guarantee it. There's also 236 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 1: a newsletter that comes out all the time, and it's 237 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:44,959 Speaker 1: in the show notes. If you want to get a 238 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: part of that, I'd love you to get in touch 239 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 1: because that's also how you can talk to me. Just 240 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 1: hit reply on that and I'll email you back. We're 241 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 1: listening to some segments from my full conversation with the 242 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:58,320 Speaker 1: incredibly experienced and highly esteemed trauma psychologist Tarney Schultz, episode 243 00:11:58,320 --> 00:11:59,680 Speaker 1: two hundred and sixty one. If you want to go 244 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 1: back in what my voice sounded like in twenty eighteen, 245 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 1: this last part I want to play is really quite good. 246 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 1: There's a particular kind of suffering that sometimes it didn't 247 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 1: talked about. I know I felt it. It's the witness, 248 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 1: the person who wasn't the one under the truck, wasn't 249 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 1: the one at the center of the incident, but cannot 250 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 1: shake what they saw. This is what happened when I 251 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 1: came back from New York after September eleven. I'm like, 252 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 1: I felt I had no right to feel what I felt. 253 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:30,320 Speaker 1: I couldn't look people in the eye, I couldn't listen 254 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 1: to the news, I couldn't watch TV. I didn't want 255 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 1: to leave the house, and I couldn't understand I was 256 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:39,840 Speaker 1: so upset at myself because like I was fine. So, 257 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 1: you know, these are the kind of things that we 258 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 1: don't really talk about that much, that people who are 259 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 1: physically unharmed, but they can't sleep at night, the turning 260 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 1: in on themselves, lying away, going it didn't happen to me. 261 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:53,320 Speaker 1: I shouldn't need help. I feel bad about gonefelp. Well 262 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 1: you've ever felt like that? I certainly have, if you 263 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 1: can relate to that. Tarny has some very stern words. 264 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 2: I think it is so important again when we talk 265 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 2: it about from a DNA perspective, when we talk about it, 266 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 2: like you are worthy in your own right to get 267 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 2: the support that you need and to live a flourishing, 268 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 2: thriving life. And you know, I think ultimately, if you 269 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:16,960 Speaker 2: felt affected by seeing somebody else hurt, that only speaks 270 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 2: volumes about your values as a person. You know that 271 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 2: you witness something that insulted your values, something that you 272 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:27,440 Speaker 2: stood for so first and foremost represent something incredibly beautiful 273 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 2: about you. It's not a weakness, it's a strength that 274 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 2: I witness somebody else get hurt and that fundamentally hurt 275 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 2: me to the core. And it's also then you know 276 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 2: what was that emotional what were the physical sensations that 277 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 2: you experienced during that time? And you may not even 278 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 2: be aware of what the core beliefs that were developed 279 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 2: from that, but you may find that you fundamentally changed 280 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 2: the way that you operate in this world, even if 281 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 2: in micro moments. But you know, it may be that 282 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 2: you're a little bit more hypervigilant, you know you, or 283 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 2: you don't want to leave the house as much, or 284 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 2: you're less trusting of people. That would be a tragedy 285 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 2: in its own right that not only did somebody else 286 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:03,600 Speaker 2: gets severely hurt, but now your world has become severely 287 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 2: smaller because of that. 288 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 3: Experience as well. 289 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 2: And so it's allowing you to know that, I guess 290 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 2: giving you permission to live a full and holy life 291 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 2: knowing that you've got beautiful values that you want to 292 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:16,200 Speaker 2: act in line with and that you don't want that 293 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 2: trauma to be the thing that fundamentally makes you smaller 294 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 2: or less because of it. So yeah, I think it's 295 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 2: incredibly important for that person to process. 296 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 1: It's important to recognize that you might not have considered 297 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: your world is becoming smaller because of something that happened 298 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 1: to somebody else. But that is the hidden cost of 299 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 1: things that doesn't make the official kind of numbers of 300 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 1: any news story that's're in about something. And there's a 301 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 1: I don't know, it's almost like a beautiful cruelty to 302 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 1: the logic that Tarani's talking about there, because the very 303 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 1: empathy that is hurting you is proof of something extraordinary 304 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 1: inside of you. Your care for other people is not 305 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 1: your wound, it's your character and it deserves the same protection, 306 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 1: the same room, the same healing as anything else. So 307 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 1: you can go on being the person that you were 308 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 1: before this thing happened. So if you are suffering, see 309 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 1: can help. It's absolutely vital. As I mentioned before thirteen 310 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 1: eleven fourteen, as a lifelong number or talk to your GP. 311 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 1: It was brilliant to go back and have a listen 312 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 1: to the parts of that incredible conversation. Like I said, 313 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 1: the whole it goes for over an hour and a half. 314 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 1: It's an amazing conversation. Episode two hundred and sixty one. I 315 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:30,160 Speaker 1: hope that was useful. I hope those three things can 316 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: really help you today. We're back here on Wednesday. Thank 317 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 1: you so much for being a part of the show. 318 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: Thanks Badamian Hafforden for cutting this part together. Thanks to 319 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 1: Casidy Creevy, my ea, all the great team who helped 320 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 1: me make this show. Like I said, there's a link 321 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 1: in the show notes for the newsletter. Get on there, 322 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 1: stay in touch. You can watch full episodes on YouTube 323 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 1: and as also, if you want to come say hi, 324 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 1: come see me at story Club April twelfth. It's a 325 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 1: live show Factory Theatre Americviel. You can get tickets if 326 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 1: you can't make it to the show. There's a YouTube 327 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 1: page where you can watch all the stories and I'll 328 00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 1: put that in the show notes too. 329 00:15:57,560 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 3: Have a wonderful day.