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Speaker 1: Everything can be known past, present, future.

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Speaker 2: Am I?

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Speaker 3: The only one.

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Speaker 4: Of the red box has just been brought into into

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Speaker 4: the studio under security. This is phenomenal, Tommy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, a little small red box containing one very big question.

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Speaker 4: It's got the armor guard security guards around it. I

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Speaker 4: have sorry, boys and Craig professionals don't say anything.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, do you want to hear from the other one, Wayne?

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Speaker 3: Ask Wayne how he sounds a.

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Speaker 4: Lot like a staff member at the adelaide crows. A

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Speaker 4: girl's just arrived as well.

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Speaker 3: He let me open the box, So yeah, I should

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Speaker 3: say legal disclaimer. Yep, we haven't done this before, so

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Speaker 3: that's legal. Okay, So people have we've asked you to

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Speaker 3: d m us. Are you the only one listening right

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Speaker 3: now who has done something interesting or exciting? If you have,

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Speaker 3: If you have your d m us, you've.

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Speaker 2: Got an amazing, amazing story getting bad.

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Speaker 3: The envelope is open, envelope has been open, and the

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Speaker 3: winner is here.

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Speaker 2: We've got it is la la la what a references?

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Speaker 5: Am I?

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Speaker 3: The only one who catches cheatahs for a living, not

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Speaker 3: the animal expelling it's e A T E R R.

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Speaker 2: Cheating, So like a private investigator, top I.

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Speaker 3: Think that's the angle we're going on this morning to

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Speaker 3: kick us off. The one who dm us was Paul

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Speaker 3: and paulins Now do you catch cheaters for a living?

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Speaker 6: Oh guys, yes, that's correct.

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Speaker 2: How long you've been working for Whipford?

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Speaker 4: Haven't called? Still on the run?

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Speaker 6: You know where to find me?

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Speaker 4: So much fun, such a funny topic.

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Speaker 1: Well, how did you get into this line of work?

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Speaker 6: Just passion? Really been doing it to show ten years

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Speaker 6: and you know, just something that I've always wanted to do.

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Speaker 1: Were you cheated on at some point in your life?

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Speaker 1: Did that fuel your passion?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 6: Not yet, I hope.

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Speaker 4: Paul, What where do you start?

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Speaker 2: So?

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Speaker 4: Talk to me about the people that approach you.

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Speaker 6: Look, I mean it could be anyone really, males, females, married, engaged,

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Speaker 6: people that have been in relationships to short periods two

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Speaker 6: or three months.

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Speaker 4: And how do they find you, Paul?

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Speaker 6: Mostly online? You know, Google, Facebook, Instagram, go. Yeah, private

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Speaker 6: vesios are pretty accessible these days. You know, it's not

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Speaker 6: like the olden days. We need the yellow pages or

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Speaker 6: the white pages to getting touched with someone.

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Speaker 2: Trait that you would need in this job, Paul is patience.

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Speaker 2: Do you do a lot of sitting around yes, yes,

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Speaker 2: very very patient stakeouts. So what do you start You're

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Speaker 2: waiting the car, Paul, for someone to come out of

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Speaker 2: the house to follow them, like that could be that

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Speaker 2: that could be days.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, it could be days. You know, it could be

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Speaker 6: a week. But obviously you know, the longer you wait,

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Speaker 6: you know, the more crucial I get. And that's when

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Speaker 6: you know you have to be ready.

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Speaker 4: What's your starting point, Paul? When someone could Let's say

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Speaker 4: a woman comes to you and says, I think my

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Speaker 4: husband might be cheating. She hands over the details. You've

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Speaker 4: an idea of the character. Is your first point social

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Speaker 4: media or is it to.

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Speaker 6: Follow genuinely follow? Because on social media these days, people

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Speaker 6: you know, they use private messengers or you direct messages

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Speaker 6: and you can't really get into that. Can't hack him, no,

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Speaker 6: because that's the legal So instick to surveillance and.

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Speaker 1: Then do you Obviously you have to build your evidence

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Speaker 1: to give back to the person who's hired you. So

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Speaker 1: what is that like photos, videos and things exactly?

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Speaker 6: So we do photos, video, we give them updates, we

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Speaker 6: give them a report, and then obviously you know how

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Speaker 6: far we go it's determined by the client.

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Speaker 2: Have you ever been busted because I mean to get

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Speaker 2: that evidence and take a photo in a hotel room

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Speaker 2: of someone cheating or something like that, you must go.

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Speaker 2: You must have to go, getting like right in there, Paul,

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Speaker 2: have you been busted before trying to get a photo?

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Speaker 6: It looked probably one in a hundred cases. Get yourself

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Speaker 6: into a bit of a hairy situation. But you know,

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Speaker 6: it is very rare.

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Speaker 4: What happened, Paul? What did he do?

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Speaker 6: Was it a he all that particular one? Trying to

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Speaker 6: get a photo in a very very small, confined space

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Speaker 6: where obviously no one had any reason to be for example,

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Speaker 6: you know, but obviously to get the money shot, you

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Speaker 6: do what you have to do to keep you quient happy.

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Speaker 2: Paul, What can you I know each case is different,

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Speaker 2: but what would be And if you suspect your partner

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Speaker 2: cheating like average, what kind of money would you have

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Speaker 2: to pay for a private investigated to get some evidence

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Speaker 2: for you?

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Speaker 6: Look, it really depends, you know how often they're cheating

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Speaker 6: or how regular it is. It could be as little

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Speaker 6: as a few hundred dollars. Whereas if they're quite clever

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Speaker 6: and you know they're masking the affair very well, it

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Speaker 6: could be you know, in the thousands of dollars, what's

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Speaker 6: really depends.

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Speaker 2: Can you give us the biggest what's the longest stakeout

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Speaker 2: that you've done, Paul, to get evidence and find out.

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Speaker 6: Oh, we've got cases that have run for over two

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Speaker 6: three years ongoing. Oh, because you've got habitual offenders, so

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Speaker 6: they cheat constantly, so you might catch them, you know,

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Speaker 6: they reconcile their relationship, and then you catch them again

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Speaker 6: three months later with someone else.

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Speaker 5: Have you had many that the aren't cheating that you

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Speaker 5: can report back and say, no, it's not or is

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Speaker 5: that pretty rare?

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Speaker 6: Look, it does happen. It's rare, but we do love

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Speaker 6: those ones well. Obviously to go back to a client

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Speaker 6: and give them good news, that's a great thing.

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Speaker 4: That's the thing. And I'd like to know when a

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Speaker 4: woman approaches you, what percentage of the those guys are

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Speaker 4: cheating compared to the other way around, when a man

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Speaker 4: might approach and go, I think my wife might be

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Speaker 4: cheating on me.

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Speaker 6: Yeah. Look, it's hard to work out percentages, but it's

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Speaker 6: pretty high. When a female client contacts us.

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Speaker 4: They kind of intuitional.

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Speaker 6: They've got that female you know that could got into

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Speaker 6: It's very very accurate.

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Speaker 2: What are some of the signs that we should be

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Speaker 2: looking out for in our relationships, Paul, that someone might be.

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Speaker 6: Cheating, Yeah, good question. You know, changing behavior, not checking

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Speaker 6: their phone when they normally would, extra grooming, you know,

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Speaker 6: coming home late from work all of a sudden, leaving

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Speaker 6: to go earlier somewhere, or you know, regularly going out

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Speaker 6: at night when they never previously went out at night.

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Speaker 1: You just start looking better.

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Speaker 3: Don't you.

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Speaker 6: Exactly if people make an effort, you know, they're a

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Speaker 6: bit different when they come home. There might be emotionally

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Speaker 6: chart you know, the phone is the most crucial one

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Speaker 6: because obviously, if you're having an affair, you know you're

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Speaker 6: not going to be checking your phone every two minutes

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Speaker 6: when you're with the other party.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Paul, You then have to break the news. Let's

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Speaker 4: call it a husband and wife situation. The guys come

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Speaker 4: to you and says, I think my wife is cheating.

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Speaker 4: When you break the news to the person, what's that like,

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Speaker 4: because obviously they're the suss on a situation, but heartbreaking

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Speaker 4: at the same time because you're changing lives.

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Speaker 6: Yeah. I mean I've been face to face with clients

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Speaker 6: many times, and you know they break down and they want,

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Speaker 6: you know, a shoulder the crime, because you know, their

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Speaker 6: life's just completely just been thrown upside down. It's devastating

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Speaker 6: for them. Where other people get relief, you know, it's

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Speaker 6: almost like a sigh of relief because they've been thinking

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Speaker 6: about it for so long and when they get that Evan,

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Speaker 6: they needs to move forward.

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Speaker 2: There must be an element that you and I know

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Speaker 2: it's hard breaking up relationships for but there must be

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Speaker 2: an element where you're, like, I track Dave down, here's

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Speaker 2: the photo.

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Speaker 4: Boom, he's with your sister.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And there must be an element where you know, yeah, bang,

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Speaker 2: I've done my job. That you go, I'm out of here.

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Speaker 4: He's not a superhero, Paul. The other thing is too

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Speaker 4: have you ever had anyone snap at you.

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Speaker 6: As in like a physical altercation?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 6: No, luckily or not?

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Speaker 2: Paul? The TV show Cheaters? Is that a load of crap?

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Speaker 2: Is that all made up? You reckon?

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Speaker 6: That's the one in America?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, Look, I mean these days you just don't know,

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Speaker 6: You don't really, wouldn't it? Tell Paul?

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Speaker 4: What about this one? Who's the most common person that

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Speaker 4: they're cheating with? Is it someone from work? Is it

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Speaker 4: someone close within their social group or is it someone

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Speaker 4: from Rose Bay? You know what I mean?

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Speaker 6: Look, i'd say definitely the workplace coming as obviously with

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Speaker 6: COVID thing is a little bit different, but the workplace

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Speaker 6: is a big one. You know, parents from schools, obviously.

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Speaker 3: It is.

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Speaker 6: True and stuff like that. Yet in her parents groups

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Speaker 6: where there's insibility occurrying them.

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Speaker 4: Come over for a playdate, kids are on the trampoline.

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Speaker 4: Ain't leave it up to Paul where we go.

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Speaker 3: Currently, Paul has the title, he owns the title of him.

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Speaker 3: I'm the only one who catches cheats for a living,

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Speaker 3: but story someone else.

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Speaker 1: You've got a beautiful voice too.

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Speaker 2: You could be good on radio, Paul.

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Speaker 4: You might be a more smooth than over. Do you

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Speaker 4: want to say Richard Wilkins coming up after seven o'clock tonight?

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Speaker 6: Actually want me to say that?

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Speaker 4: I do.

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Speaker 6: We've got Richard Wilks coming up after seven pm tonight.

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Speaker 4: Why would you use Richard's name in this conversation? Now, MDG,

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Speaker 4: if you're making a link there, you're sick in.

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Speaker 1: The heads limiting that.

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Speaker 2: Man. It's a fascinating if you're into it, but geez,

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Speaker 2: you would have to be patient.

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Speaker 4: Not fall asleep. Like if someone's gone into an office

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Speaker 4: block or something, you're trying to get a photo and

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Speaker 4: you're sitting in your car and you've got a hamburger

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Speaker 4: on your lap? How are you not falling in?

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Speaker 1: You can and then just add an next it come

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Speaker 1: back there next.

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Speaker 2: Imagine then you would go sorry your car? Yeah, a

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Speaker 2: private investigator, Oh.

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Speaker 4: My god, I'd be covered in wrappers, chips all over

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Speaker 4: the floor.

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Speaker 3: So thirteen twenty four ten, if you have a story

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Speaker 3: like this.

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Speaker 4: No, poll'll be the only one, the only one in Sydney,

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Speaker 4: doesn't I reckon?

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Speaker 2: We'll have another one's well, you reckon?

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Speaker 4: There's a few puys. You are fascinating. Is there enough

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Speaker 4: work for move on?

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Speaker 5: He said that he has a team, so there's at

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Speaker 5: least another person there.

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Speaker 2: She is give us a call.

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Speaker 1: It fits and whippers.

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Speaker 6: Everything can be past present future.

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Speaker 2: Am I the only one spoke to Paul who was

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Speaker 2: a private investigator catches cheaterses cheaters. Johnnick has given us

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Speaker 2: a call from the Central Case. Good morning Johnniica, Hey guys,

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Speaker 2: how are you?

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Speaker 4: You were good? Johnika. We didn't think we'd get any

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Speaker 4: more phone calls. So you used to catch cheaters? Is

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Speaker 4: that correct.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, catch trap.

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Speaker 1: Ter, honey did you do it?

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Speaker 7: So I was a honey trap. I owned an agency

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Speaker 7: and I also worked within the agency. Oh wow, Yeah,

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Speaker 7: I trapped cheeters across Australia.

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Speaker 2: So with a honey trap. So if you were suspecting

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Speaker 2: that your partner may be a cheater, you would send

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Speaker 2: out a honey trap someone tod try to pick that

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Speaker 2: person up, just to see if they would take the bait.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, I guess if you needed some extra evidence you

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Speaker 7: weren't sure. It was niggling at you. You just want

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Speaker 7: a peace of.

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Speaker 4: Mind, because there's the difference between having a cheatah and

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Speaker 4: asking the question if they would cheat? Yes, Like, why

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Speaker 4: would you put yourself in a position to organize a honeytrap?

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Speaker 2: Well, just to see what their reaction?

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Speaker 5: But Jonika, did you find that like some blokes who

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Speaker 5: maybe hadn't cheated, but you send them a honeytrap and

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Speaker 5: maybe they were having a bad day or not that

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Speaker 5: that exu You might have been inviting a behavior of

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Speaker 5: someone who wouldn't have actually gone and sorted out.

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Speaker 1: On their own.

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Speaker 7: Well, this is the thing, guys. It actually became quite

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Speaker 7: a disappointing situation across the board what I thought my

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Speaker 7: expectations be. Reality is I thought I was going to

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Speaker 7: trap cheating partners, empower women to leave them, give them

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Speaker 7: peace of mind. But actually what happened is I just

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Speaker 7: ended up fueling paranoia, lies, and jealousy.

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Speaker 2: So it changed your mind. So is honey trap still going?

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Speaker 7: Honey traps? Honey traps is gone?

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Speaker 4: Can you tell me what you do on a standard

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Speaker 4: night if you wanted to test whether you know a

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Speaker 4: guy would cheat or be open to cheating, what would

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Speaker 4: you do?

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Speaker 7: So, okay, there's this one situation I had where a

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Speaker 7: lady had contacted me. She was worried about her partner

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Speaker 7: who she thought might be cheating or might cheat. And

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Speaker 7: let's pull him Justin. Justin was going to be at

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Speaker 7: the High Embassy for an appointment that he had for

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Speaker 7: a visa. So off toddled to the Thai Embassy, pretended

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Speaker 7: I also had an appointment, sat myself next to him,

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Speaker 7: I already had a photo and just started a conversation.

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Speaker 7: And look, Justin was right for the pick in. He

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Speaker 7: was keen as a being. We were chatting. We went

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Speaker 7: for a walk around the park in the city afterwards,

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Speaker 7: and we went and had a couple of drinks, and

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Speaker 7: then afterwards I rode up a whole report about Justin. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 7: someone had been bobbing in the bushes taking photos of hers, well,

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Speaker 7: all cozy over drinks. So I rode up the report,

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Speaker 7: sent it off, and I thought that was it, you know,

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Speaker 7: the job was done. A few months later, Justin got

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Speaker 7: in touch with me. It was going to course and

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Speaker 7: could I appear. So it turned out this woman was

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Speaker 7: the woman he was having the affair with, and she

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Speaker 7: was trying to gain enough evidence so the wife would

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Speaker 7: kick him out.

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Speaker 4: Liar on liar.

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Speaker 7: She had pinned up these photos of us all around

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Speaker 7: the small town they lived in, at a community center.

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Speaker 7: She put them on telegraph poles. She posted them to

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Speaker 7: the wife to try to grate up this marriage so

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Speaker 7: that she would end up with justice.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, this is because is that the moment

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Speaker 2: for you, Jonica, where you said I don't want to

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Speaker 2: do this anymore?

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Speaker 7: Yeah, that was pretty much the breaking point.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 7: I would were liked that, you know, like none of

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Speaker 7: them were tired of what I'd imagine they were. I

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Speaker 7: just thought, this isn't really what I accepted, because I would.

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Speaker 4: Have thought in a test cut, the cut, the coffee,

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Speaker 4: and the walk around the park. Just go to the

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Speaker 4: bar when you know he's going to the bar. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: that is resonating, so you'd never know what you're stepping into.

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Speaker 4: That's the weird part about.

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Speaker 2: It, Joniica. That is dangerous though as well, because if

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Speaker 2: they do find out that you are part of this agency,

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Speaker 2: they could come back after you afterwards. The guys.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, I guess that one was usual situation.

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Speaker 7: Usually there's some more protection, take name some things like this.

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Speaker 7: I guess because this one ended up being a police

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Speaker 7: matter and then.

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Speaker 2: A court matter.

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Speaker 7: That's why they were able to find out who I was.

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Speaker 4: But usually you know, there was okay, are you in

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Speaker 4: a relationship Jonica.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, happily, Mary multiple years, he'd be nervous.

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Speaker 1: Do you ever ask your mates to hit on him,

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Speaker 1: test him out?

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Speaker 7: Do you know what I used to go through his

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Speaker 7: phone in the early.

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Speaker 2: Boring?

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Speaker 7: I can't be bothered to anymore.

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Speaker 1: It's a nice.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's fascinating. Thanks to you call Johnicka. I appreciate it.

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Speaker 7: Oh, good, guys, have a good day.

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Speaker 4: Tell me interesting, very interesting? Am I the only one?

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Speaker 4: And first the first Jonica we've had on the show

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Speaker 4: as well.

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Speaker 2: Listened to you sending it a honey trap for I think,

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Speaker 2: oh my god, what would you do down the beach?

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Speaker 4: How do you hit on Tom Ivet? Even she would

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Speaker 4: probably knock the job back Buzinger with ten thousand dollars.

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Speaker 4: I can't hit on him.

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Speaker 3: Why not?

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Speaker 4: Look at him?

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Speaker 5: Tom is like the easiest person to speak to in

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Speaker 5: a social situation.

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Speaker 4: No way I'm going to approach that guy.

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Speaker 3: Thanks so much, guys, I don't even want to go

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Speaker 3: within a kilometer of him.

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Speaker 1: It fits and whipper