WEBVTT - Paul Kelly’s guide to fearless journalism

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<v Speaker 1>You can listen to the Front on your smart speaker

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<v Speaker 1>every morning to hear the latest episode. Just say play

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<v Speaker 1>the news from the Australian. From the Australian, here's what's

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<v Speaker 1>on the Front. I'm Claire Harvey. It's Monday, August nineteen.

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<v Speaker 1>Patients are waiting nearly two years to access medicines even

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<v Speaker 1>after they've been approved by medical regulators. A new report

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<v Speaker 1>in The Australian reveals widespread delays in vital treatments getting

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<v Speaker 1>on the shelves. That stories live now at the Australian

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<v Speaker 1>dot com dot au. Today is the ultimate episode in

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<v Speaker 1>a special series honoring The Australian's sixtieth anniversary. On today's episode,

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<v Speaker 1>one of the Cory's most famous political journalists, The Australian's

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<v Speaker 1>Editor at Large, Paul Kelly, telling us about the most

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<v Speaker 1>important characteristic of a journalist, the courage to think for yourself.

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<v Speaker 1>Paul Kelly is a legend.

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<v Speaker 2>Speak things gloss.

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<v Speaker 1>Not that one, because.

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<v Speaker 2>He does it needs.

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<v Speaker 1>Not that one, this one.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a conflict between economics and politics. This has been

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<v Speaker 2>the Treasurer's dilemma.

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<v Speaker 1>Just like the singer and the AFL superstar are Paul

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<v Speaker 1>Kelly is one of the greats. He started at The

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<v Speaker 1>Australian in nineteen seventy one, when our paper was just

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<v Speaker 1>seven years old. Paul was a public servant who decided,

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<v Speaker 1>quite rightly, political journalism was a lot more interesting than

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<v Speaker 1>being a bureaucrat. His bosses at the Department of Prime

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<v Speaker 1>Minister and Cabinet couldn't believe it.

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<v Speaker 2>They were asking me, well, Paul, I mean, what on

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<v Speaker 2>earth are you doing. You've got a wonderful career ahead

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<v Speaker 2>of you and the public service if you really know,

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<v Speaker 2>concentrate for the next forty years you might end up

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<v Speaker 2>a departmental head. By the way, what are you going

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<v Speaker 2>to do? And I said, well, I'm moving to the

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<v Speaker 2>press gollery. Whereupon there was a you know, the sort

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<v Speaker 2>of smiles disappeared from their face and there was an

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<v Speaker 2>awareness this could be a problem for them.

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<v Speaker 1>That's Paul speaking at a live gathering to mark The

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<v Speaker 1>Australian's sixtieth anniversary. He started out as the most junior

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<v Speaker 1>reporter in a bureau of nine, but Paul had a

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<v Speaker 1>stunning rise. Within four years, this rookie had been promoted

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<v Speaker 1>to political correspondent.

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<v Speaker 2>So I had a departure from The Australian in nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>seventy five, which was a very dramatic year of Australian politics.

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<v Speaker 2>We had the constitutional crisis. I was the political correspondent

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<v Speaker 2>at the time and I had a bad falling out

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<v Speaker 2>at the paper.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, may we say, God save the Queen. A dramatic year. Indeed,

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<v Speaker 1>was nothing well say with the Governor General.

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<v Speaker 2>The paper supported the blocking of supply and supported Sir

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<v Speaker 2>John kurse dismissal of the Whitlam government. I both opposed

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<v Speaker 2>at the blocking of supply and wrote to that effect,

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<v Speaker 2>and strenuously opposed Sir John Ker's dismissal of Whitlam's Prime Minister,

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<v Speaker 2>and wrote to that effect that the paper not surprisingly

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<v Speaker 2>felt that given the discrepancy between its position and my position,

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<v Speaker 2>it was best if I had part of the post

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<v Speaker 2>of political correspondent, which I did, which I did.

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<v Speaker 1>Governor General Sir John Kerr used his constitutional power to

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<v Speaker 1>dismiss the government and call a double dissolution election, which

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<v Speaker 1>was won by Malcolm Fraser. The Australian had endorsed Whitlam

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<v Speaker 1>when he was elected in nineteen seventy two, but the

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<v Speaker 1>paper took an editorial line supporting the dismissal and endorsing

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<v Speaker 1>Malcolm Fraser's election in nineteen seventy five. Was part of

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<v Speaker 1>your decision making informed by who John Kerr was, that

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<v Speaker 1>he was sort of getting drunk at the races and

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<v Speaker 1>that he was very unorthodox or was it about the

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<v Speaker 1>for you about the constitution?

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<v Speaker 2>No, I wasn't interested in his personal life. I mean

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<v Speaker 2>I learned a lot about it because I wrote four

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<v Speaker 2>book subsequently about the dismissal of the Whitlam government. It's

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<v Speaker 2>been something that I've followed for a lot of my life.

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<v Speaker 2>But No, I wasn't interested in kurs, drinking or anything

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<v Speaker 2>like that. The judgments I made were the way he

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<v Speaker 2>conducted himself as Governor General, his use of the constitutional

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<v Speaker 2>powers he had. He had the power to dismiss the

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<v Speaker 2>Prime Minister, there was no question about that. But he

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<v Speaker 2>should not have dismissed the Prime minister. His obligation as

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<v Speaker 2>Governor General was to advise an war. He dismissed Whitlam

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<v Speaker 2>in an ambush, an ambush that the Crown would never

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<v Speaker 2>have engaged in. So yes, So the judgment I made

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<v Speaker 2>was about the way he conducted his constitutional responsibilities.

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<v Speaker 1>Sometimes it's easier to just go along with the company line,

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<v Speaker 1>especially when you're young and in a job you're very

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<v Speaker 1>much enjoying.

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<v Speaker 2>There's only one rationale, there's only one for being in journalism,

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<v Speaker 2>and that is to make your assessment and situation, to

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<v Speaker 2>engage with the politicians gavern the facts. But then you're

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<v Speaker 2>under an obligation to reach a conclusion which you think

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<v Speaker 2>is the correct conclusion in terms of making assessments of

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<v Speaker 2>the politicians. And this was the most important constitutional crisis

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<v Speaker 2>in the history of the country. I had very firm

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<v Speaker 2>views about it, partly formed by my period as a

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<v Speaker 2>public servant, because when I was a public servant, we

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<v Speaker 2>serve as government house. I used prepared the Executive Council

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<v Speaker 2>documents for the Governor General, so I understood how the

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<v Speaker 2>Governor General functioned and operated. I was well aware of

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<v Speaker 2>the powers of the Crown, the powers of the Governor General,

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<v Speaker 2>the relationship between the Prime Minister and the Governor General,

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<v Speaker 2>the relationship between the Palace and the Governor General. And

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<v Speaker 2>so I took this position. And that's what you do.

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<v Speaker 2>And if you've got political journalists so unprepared at the

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<v Speaker 2>end of the day to back their judgment, then they're

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<v Speaker 2>not worth a bumper.

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<v Speaker 1>By the mid eighties, Paul came back as National Affairs editor.

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<v Speaker 1>He covered all the big characters.

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<v Speaker 2>Golf was wonderful. The point about Golf was Golf was

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<v Speaker 2>a politician, but he was an actor. See if GoF

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<v Speaker 2>hadn't gone into politics, he would have gone onto the stage.

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<v Speaker 2>He would have made a brilliant actor all through the

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<v Speaker 2>English speaking world. And so GoF was always playing at

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<v Speaker 2>two games. He was the politician, but he was the actor.

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<v Speaker 2>I remember bucking into him one day in King's Hall

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<v Speaker 2>when he was very angry with the Secretary of the

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<v Speaker 2>Treasury for Frederick Wheeler, and he said to me, now, comrade, comrade,

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<v Speaker 2>I like your advice. I'd like your advice. Do you

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<v Speaker 2>think I should sack that bastard Wheeler? And I said, oh, GoF,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, it would be most unlike you to act

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<v Speaker 2>so rashly. And he said, do you think do you think?

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<v Speaker 2>Do you think I'm a rash person? And so we

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<v Speaker 2>had this extraordinary conversation, which was all a joke. Of course.

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<v Speaker 2>That was sort of Goff's personality as the actor rather

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<v Speaker 2>than the series politician. He fluctuated between the two The

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<v Speaker 2>most extraordinary politician I dealt with was Rex Connor, who

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<v Speaker 2>was the Minister for Minerals and Energy in the Whitlam government,

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<v Speaker 2>who was the architect of the great Kam Laney Loane.

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<v Speaker 2>I was very young. He took a shine to me

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<v Speaker 2>and I used to go down and see him, and

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<v Speaker 2>he locked the door so I couldn't get out, and

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<v Speaker 2>we talked for about two or three hours, and eventually

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<v Speaker 2>I'd say, mister Connor, look, it's been wonderful talking to you.

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<v Speaker 2>I've really loved it. But I've got to leave. I've

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<v Speaker 2>got to go upstairs and do some work. I've got

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<v Speaker 2>a file for tomorrow's paper.

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<v Speaker 1>Was his nickname Buckets.

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<v Speaker 2>His nickname was the Strangler.

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<v Speaker 1>In the nineteen nineties, Paul became editor in chief.

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<v Speaker 2>I've been through two fundamental technological revolutions in journalism. Before

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<v Speaker 2>these revolutions, we were told, we were briefed about how

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<v Speaker 2>it would work out, what the consequences would be. All

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<v Speaker 2>the briefs were completely wrong. It's almost impossible when you

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<v Speaker 2>get big technological changes at the start before the change,

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<v Speaker 2>for people to accurately assess what it's going to be.

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<v Speaker 1>This chat with Paul was recorded at a recent life

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<v Speaker 1>gathering of The Australians subscribers. It's part of the deal

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<v Speaker 1>when you subscribe. Every so often we hold a party

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<v Speaker 1>for our readers with drinks, cannaps and some great insights

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<v Speaker 1>into journalism, plus a chance to meet the country's most

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<v Speaker 1>experienced and respected journalists. Check us out at the Australian

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<v Speaker 1>dot com dot au. What's the cliche of a journo

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<v Speaker 1>A bit disheveled, a bit beery, a bit smoky pie

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<v Speaker 1>crumbs down the front of his tie. If you can't

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<v Speaker 1>find him shouting questions at a politician, he's probably sinking

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<v Speaker 1>beers at the pub. Now, that's not really a fair

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<v Speaker 1>representation of journalism in twenty twenty four, but it was

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<v Speaker 1>the real deal when Paul Kelly was first working in

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<v Speaker 1>the Canberra Press Gallery.

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<v Speaker 2>Look, when I started a political journalism, it was a

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<v Speaker 2>dangerous and cutthroat business. It was incredibly competitive in the

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<v Speaker 2>press Gallery was a much larger press gallery. It was

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<v Speaker 2>a stronger media. The Press Gallery was a beast. It

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<v Speaker 2>was like being in a Catholic seminary. Inasmuch as there

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<v Speaker 2>are about one hundred and forty journalists and how many

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<v Speaker 2>women two two Michelle n and Gay Davidson.

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<v Speaker 1>Alcohol was all part of a gig.

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<v Speaker 2>We all drank of a knight if Foster's was compulsory.

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<v Speaker 2>If he went into Lorry Oak's office, he had a

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<v Speaker 2>very large blue circular ash tray and at the end

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<v Speaker 2>of the night, when Laurie left, there were about fifty

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<v Speaker 2>or sixty cigarette butts in that ashtray. So that was

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<v Speaker 2>Australia in the early nineteen seventies. People have no idea

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<v Speaker 2>what sort of workplace it was because it was not

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<v Speaker 2>subject to any industrial relations laws. We occupied the top

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<v Speaker 2>floor of Parliament House. We had our own rules, we

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<v Speaker 2>had our own operation, and there were very few politicians

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<v Speaker 2>actually game enough to walk up that final flight of

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<v Speaker 2>stairs to the press gallery. A few did, but a

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<v Speaker 2>lot didn't they were too terrified. So we actually ran

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<v Speaker 2>that press gallery according to our own rules.

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<v Speaker 1>Things are of course a bit different today. Every industry

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<v Speaker 1>in Australia has changed and grown. In journalism, we've seen

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<v Speaker 1>the demise of the office bar fridge and of rigid

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<v Speaker 1>newspaper deadlines, and the advent of dynamic twenty four to

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<v Speaker 1>seven publishing on app, web, video, and right here in audio.

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<v Speaker 1>We've seen our journalism aggregated and commodified by giant tech platforms,

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<v Speaker 1>and now we're dealing with the rise of generative artificial

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<v Speaker 1>intelligence and what that will mean for our beloved craft.

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<v Speaker 2>The skill and art of journalism is eternal, so the

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<v Speaker 2>method will remain. And what's the method, Well, the method

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<v Speaker 2>is engagement with people, engagement with institutions, attempting to find

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<v Speaker 2>out what's happening, reporting analysis, so that will continue. What

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<v Speaker 2>will change is the transmission mechanism. How will the copy

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<v Speaker 2>be delivered to the individual. So that's where we'll see

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<v Speaker 2>more and more changes. And of course the method of

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<v Speaker 2>delivery and the transmission will put pressure on journalism. There's

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<v Speaker 2>absolutely no doubt about that. I mean, we are now

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<v Speaker 2>moving into video big time, so again there's going to

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<v Speaker 2>be all sorts of innovations that we see. The way

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<v Speaker 2>to think about it, and this is optimistic, I know,

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<v Speaker 2>but the way to think about it is that the

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<v Speaker 2>journalistic skill and art stays. The journalists are going to

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<v Speaker 2>be required to learn more, think more about how they

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<v Speaker 2>deliver copy, about how they deliver the information about words

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<v Speaker 2>as well as video. But I think that transmission will

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<v Speaker 2>continue to see a lot of changes.

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<v Speaker 1>Any old journals are resistant to change. They bang on

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<v Speaker 1>about how things were much better in the good old days.

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<v Speaker 1>Paul isn't like that, no.

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<v Speaker 2>I think one of the points about journalism is that

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<v Speaker 2>you're on the cutting edge of changed the entire time.

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<v Speaker 2>All the time you are dealing with the big issues,

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<v Speaker 2>but it's a changing agenda. So I think journalists, in

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<v Speaker 2>terms of the way they think, in terms of their culture,

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<v Speaker 2>they're alert to that. I mean, if you've got someone

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<v Speaker 2>in journalism and they can't stand change, well they're not

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<v Speaker 2>going to be much good.

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<v Speaker 1>You can read all Paul Kelly's journalism and the rest

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<v Speaker 1>of the nation's best news, business, sport and commentary right

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<v Speaker 1>now at the Australian dot com dot au