WEBVTT - Michael Schneider, CEO of Bunnings 0:00:05.881 --> 0:00:13.521 Apoche Production. Welcome to another episode of Brave Always the 0:00:13.601 --> 0:00:16.961 CEO series. This series, we launch into the new world 0:00:17.081 --> 0:00:18.521 of brave leadership. 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:21.520 Happy people create happy businesses, true. 0:00:21.241 --> 0:00:23.001 Emotionally intelligent leadership. 0:00:23.041 --> 0:00:25.441 I've picked up vomit once on our about our fourth flight, 0:00:25.681 --> 0:00:27.601 and everybody thought, well, if it's good enough for him, 0:00:27.721 --> 0:00:28.441 I can do it now. 0:00:28.521 --> 0:00:31.121 We will be joined by culture and leadership. 0:00:30.721 --> 0:00:35.121 Experts and some superstar CEOs who will courageously tell us 0:00:35.120 --> 0:00:39.040 the truth behind their brave leadership journeys. I am personally 0:00:39.161 --> 0:00:42.001 very excited to have the amazing Michael Schneider joined me today. 0:00:42.241 --> 0:00:45.201 Michael is the managing director of one of Australia's most 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:48.560 trusted and iconic brands, Bunnings. Having started his career as 0:00:48.561 --> 0:00:50.920 a young fifteen year old at Target, Michael's career has 0:00:50.961 --> 0:00:54.521 spanned leadership roles from Target to Westbach and then ultimately Bunnings, 0:00:54.561 --> 0:00:56.521 where he joined in two thousand and five as a 0:00:56.561 --> 0:01:00.121 state operations manager. Whilst his resume is impressive, the reason 0:01:00.200 --> 0:01:02.561 I'm thrilled to have him here today is here is 0:01:02.601 --> 0:01:04.681 a man with one of the biggest brands in the country, 0:01:05.081 --> 0:01:08.041 responsible for fifty three thousand team members and he is 0:01:08.081 --> 0:01:10.840 deeply loved and respected by all who come across his path. 0:01:11.200 --> 0:01:13.200 So welcome Michael. It's great to have you here today. 0:01:13.681 --> 0:01:15.481 Great to be here, and thanks for the opportunity. 0:01:15.761 --> 0:01:18.681 So, Michael, part of my excitement about interviewing you is 0:01:18.721 --> 0:01:21.840 my fascination with what happens to leaders as they rise 0:01:21.881 --> 0:01:23.801 through the ranks and make it to the top. So 0:01:24.081 --> 0:01:26.920 you're exposed to leaders at all levels across all industries 0:01:26.920 --> 0:01:30.321 in Australia. Can I start with two questions, what behavior 0:01:30.681 --> 0:01:31.881 or attitude do you. 0:01:31.801 --> 0:01:34.081 Think is missing from leadership in this country? 0:01:34.521 --> 0:01:37.681 And secondly, what unique attribute do you think Ossie leaders 0:01:37.721 --> 0:01:39.200 have that no other country can match. 0:01:39.521 --> 0:01:42.200 I think they're almost the same thing, ironically. I think, 0:01:42.441 --> 0:01:44.001 you know, one of the things that's really unique in 0:01:44.041 --> 0:01:48.721 Australia is the absence of hierarchy and formality, even more 0:01:48.761 --> 0:01:52.641 formal organizations. When I speak to peers in Europe or 0:01:52.841 --> 0:01:56.041 United States or United Kingdom, you know, there's a real 0:01:56.201 --> 0:01:59.961 sense of importance attached to job title and sort of status, 0:02:00.001 --> 0:02:02.160 and I think in some ways that can really define 0:02:02.681 --> 0:02:05.881 for those leaders what their roles entail were. In Australia, 0:02:06.161 --> 0:02:09.481 you know, I think it's far more egalitarian notwithstanding that 0:02:09.521 --> 0:02:12.481 there is structure in hierarchy in all organizations. I think 0:02:12.521 --> 0:02:15.001 there is a more natural, down to earth nature that 0:02:15.041 --> 0:02:19.201 you come across with Australian leaders. But I think sometimes 0:02:19.520 --> 0:02:22.321 for many leaders they're afraid to let that guard down 0:02:22.361 --> 0:02:25.280 when you get to know them. The issues are really common. 0:02:25.321 --> 0:02:27.441 You know, we're really concerned about our teams, we are 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:30.120 very focused on our customers. We want to be doing 0:02:30.121 --> 0:02:33.440 the right things by community and stakeholders. But it takes 0:02:33.441 --> 0:02:35.681 a while to let those barriers fall down. And I 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:38.761 think when you apply that through an organizational lens, that 0:02:38.841 --> 0:02:42.441 can sometimes make it hard for an organization's team to 0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:45.041 really know and understand who their leader is and you 0:02:45.121 --> 0:02:47.601 know what those values are. And I think that's something 0:02:47.641 --> 0:02:49.681 that can be a little bit of a challenge. 0:02:49.881 --> 0:02:52.680 Are you saying almost to a degree that being vulnerable 0:02:52.680 --> 0:02:55.161 at that level can be quite difficult or can take time. 0:02:55.401 --> 0:02:57.120 Yeah, I think there's still a bit of a hangover 0:02:57.240 --> 0:03:00.361 of vulnerability being seen as a weakness or being seen 0:03:00.401 --> 0:03:03.161 as something that can be exploitive. But I think if 0:03:03.201 --> 0:03:06.641 you're confident in yourself, when you under stand the values 0:03:06.641 --> 0:03:08.721 that are important to you and the values that are 0:03:08.921 --> 0:03:11.041 you know that you want to sort of stand for 0:03:11.161 --> 0:03:13.921 and stand up for. Then I think you can sort 0:03:13.921 --> 0:03:15.921 of find your way to a place where you can 0:03:15.960 --> 0:03:18.841 be vulnerable and not be worried that that's going to 0:03:18.841 --> 0:03:20.841 be used against you in some way, shape or form. 0:03:20.921 --> 0:03:22.361 But I do think it's really tough. 0:03:22.401 --> 0:03:24.441 You know, you've only got to open the newspaper any 0:03:24.481 --> 0:03:29.840 other week, and the character assassinations of business leaders, sporting leaders, 0:03:29.921 --> 0:03:34.601 cultural leaders, faith leaders, political leaders is incessant. So if 0:03:34.641 --> 0:03:38.641 you're putting yourself out there and you're exposing some level 0:03:38.641 --> 0:03:41.921 of weakness of vulnerability, then there's a level of risks 0:03:41.921 --> 0:03:45.720 that probably didn't exist ten or fifteen years ago. And 0:03:45.761 --> 0:03:48.801 what is a twenty four hour news and social news 0:03:48.841 --> 0:03:49.801 cycle now. 0:03:49.841 --> 0:03:51.961 I have obviously spoken to a couple of your team members, 0:03:52.001 --> 0:03:53.281 and I do know afe you people who work to 0:03:53.281 --> 0:03:55.961 Bunnings in their time, and they all say lots of 0:03:55.961 --> 0:03:56.721 great things about you. 0:03:56.761 --> 0:03:58.281 But I want to know if I went up to five. 0:03:58.161 --> 0:04:00.921 Random Bunnings team members today and ask them what they 0:04:00.921 --> 0:04:02.001 love about you, what would. 0:04:01.761 --> 0:04:04.201 They say, Oh, there's probably plenty that don't love me. 0:04:04.241 --> 0:04:06.241 To be truthful, it's a big team, as you said, 0:04:06.241 --> 0:04:08.641 over fifty years, which is a real privilege to be 0:04:08.681 --> 0:04:10.761 a part of such a big group of people. But 0:04:10.841 --> 0:04:12.921 I think what I'd hope people would say is what 0:04:12.961 --> 0:04:15.881 you see is what you get. That I'm approachable and 0:04:15.961 --> 0:04:20.281 that I can empathize with the different experiences the team have. 0:04:20.361 --> 0:04:22.161 I think some of that is spending most of my 0:04:22.241 --> 0:04:26.041 career in the industry and doing almost every role, probably 0:04:26.041 --> 0:04:28.681 from the shop floor to the role that I do today, 0:04:29.081 --> 0:04:31.361 but also been at Bunnings for the better part of 0:04:31.401 --> 0:04:35.361 twenty years. You do really long and enduring friendships, really 0:04:35.401 --> 0:04:39.721 meaningful friendships, and I think that can help to really 0:04:39.721 --> 0:04:41.681 build connection and trust, which are things that are I 0:04:41.721 --> 0:04:44.961 think are fundamental foundations for any leader wanting to sort 0:04:44.961 --> 0:04:45.521 of get ahead. 0:04:46.041 --> 0:04:46.561 I agree. 0:04:46.681 --> 0:04:49.921 I think being seen for me is the gold standard, right, 0:04:49.961 --> 0:04:51.481 and I know that you do. You're out on the floor. 0:04:51.521 --> 0:04:53.921 I think most images that I seem to find if. 0:04:53.880 --> 0:04:54.881 You are in a red outfit. 0:04:55.121 --> 0:04:57.041 And I've heard a funny story about you serving a 0:04:57.081 --> 0:04:57.721 customer once. 0:04:57.841 --> 0:04:59.321 Did you mix paint? Did you chop woard? 0:04:59.601 --> 0:05:00.760 No, I was cutting carpet. 0:05:00.921 --> 0:05:05.441 I'm a very bad but passionate cyclist, and most years 0:05:05.521 --> 0:05:07.721 my younger son and I go to Adelaide with some 0:05:07.761 --> 0:05:10.880 friends and we spend time following the tour down Under, 0:05:10.961 --> 0:05:14.161 and a couple of years back we were doing a 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:17.001 national community barbecue to raise money for the bushfires, so 0:05:17.121 --> 0:05:18.921 they sort of think end of twenty nineteen start of 0:05:19.001 --> 0:05:22.121 twenty twenty the bushfires had devastated so many parts of 0:05:22.241 --> 0:05:26.401 the country. Bunning's got behind some fundraising with barbecues and 0:05:26.641 --> 0:05:28.520 we took our reds and my son was working for 0:05:28.561 --> 0:05:30.681 Bunnings at the time, so we jumped on the barbecue 0:05:30.681 --> 0:05:33.201 at one of our South Straining stores. And I can't 0:05:33.281 --> 0:05:35.361 resist the opportunity to wander around with the store manager 0:05:35.401 --> 0:05:35.841 and have a bit of. 0:05:35.801 --> 0:05:36.880 A chat and talk to the team. 0:05:36.921 --> 0:05:40.640 And yeah, customer needed some carpet cut and not something 0:05:40.641 --> 0:05:42.481 that I do very often. I do know how to 0:05:42.481 --> 0:05:43.841 do it and know how to do it safely, and 0:05:44.001 --> 0:05:46.001 made sure that I gave them far more than the 0:05:46.721 --> 0:05:48.481 out required, because I'd hope to be the one to 0:05:48.521 --> 0:05:52.401 short change a customer. And yeah, the very sharp observation 0:05:52.601 --> 0:05:55.281 from the gentleman there was that it was clearly something 0:05:55.320 --> 0:05:57.760 that I didn't do very often, but I gave it 0:05:57.801 --> 0:05:59.681 my all anyway, so it was pretty cool. 0:05:59.801 --> 0:06:00.320 I love that. 0:06:00.801 --> 0:06:02.681 So when you're out on the floor like that, like, 0:06:02.721 --> 0:06:04.041 why do you do it? I mean, I know what 0:06:04.081 --> 0:06:06.921 you do in the sense of obviously it's very connected 0:06:06.961 --> 0:06:08.801 to the people, But what do you gain when you're 0:06:08.801 --> 0:06:09.161 at the floor? 0:06:09.201 --> 0:06:10.841 What do you learn that you couldn't learn anywhere else? 0:06:11.161 --> 0:06:14.161 Oh, you learn so much because you know, you understand 0:06:14.201 --> 0:06:17.361 what equipment's working, not working, more to our processes. You know, 0:06:17.401 --> 0:06:19.841 it's really important. I was in a store recently that 0:06:19.921 --> 0:06:23.561 had just undertaken a major refurbishment, you know, talking to 0:06:23.601 --> 0:06:25.241 one of the team. You know, she was showing me 0:06:25.281 --> 0:06:28.440 and she'd been in that department for ten plus years, 0:06:28.481 --> 0:06:31.520 really understood customer need and customer traffic, and we're showing 0:06:31.561 --> 0:06:33.640 me some of the frustrations you had with the way 0:06:33.641 --> 0:06:35.481 we approached the layout, and you know, it was very 0:06:35.561 --> 0:06:37.841 quick to sort of listen to that and resolve it. 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:41.400 In the normal course of business, that might take six, twelve, eighteen, 0:06:41.481 --> 0:06:43.400 twenty four months for that sort of issue to bubble 0:06:43.481 --> 0:06:44.880 up through other channels. 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:46.281 So that listening is really important. 0:06:46.320 --> 0:06:47.921 And at the end of the day, you know, we're 0:06:47.961 --> 0:06:50.161 all here to serve our customers, no matter what role 0:06:50.241 --> 0:06:52.681 we play in the business, and every customer is important, 0:06:52.721 --> 0:06:54.601 So you know, it's something that I can help with, 0:06:54.601 --> 0:06:56.281 then I'm always happy to do it, even if that's 0:06:56.320 --> 0:06:58.721 just helping someone load some potty mix in the boot 0:06:58.761 --> 0:07:02.121 of their car. But we've got amazingly expert team members 0:07:02.161 --> 0:07:04.520 who usually can dive in and save the day and 0:07:04.561 --> 0:07:06.280 stop me from making a goose of myself. 0:07:07.081 --> 0:07:07.601 I agree. 0:07:07.601 --> 0:07:09.841 Like you're talking about the speed of getting information right 0:07:09.841 --> 0:07:12.121 as well, right the problems like you get them firsthand. 0:07:12.681 --> 0:07:15.761 But so few leaders in your level would do that. 0:07:15.881 --> 0:07:16.801 Why do you think that is? 0:07:18.361 --> 0:07:21.201 Look, I think every organization has a different needs when 0:07:21.201 --> 0:07:26.201 it comes to customers. Some organizations focus on large corporate clients, 0:07:26.241 --> 0:07:28.361 you know, because that's where the majority of the revenue 0:07:28.361 --> 0:07:32.001 comes from, or they've focused on strategic partnerships. I think 0:07:32.401 --> 0:07:36.201 Bunnings is such a ubiquitous part of the Australian psyche 0:07:36.241 --> 0:07:38.641 and community that you know, if you're not a financial 0:07:38.641 --> 0:07:41.121 shareholder in our parent company, West Farmers, and you're definitely 0:07:41.121 --> 0:07:44.441 a social shareholder in Bunnings, and our shares will usually 0:07:44.481 --> 0:07:46.681 sold one sausage of the time on the weekend, and 0:07:47.201 --> 0:07:49.201 you know, I think when people have that connection, there's 0:07:49.201 --> 0:07:51.561 an expectation that we're going to be really interested in 0:07:51.721 --> 0:07:54.481 what their needs are and what interests them and what 0:07:54.481 --> 0:07:56.681 they're going to be doing to make their homes better 0:07:56.761 --> 0:07:59.401 or safer or keep their businesses running. So yeah, for me, 0:07:59.481 --> 0:08:02.641 it's it's about walking the talk and being really connected 0:08:02.681 --> 0:08:04.481 and I think that's at the heart of our sort 0:08:04.481 --> 0:08:08.081 of servant leadership model and our leadership culture at Bunnings. 0:08:08.361 --> 0:08:10.361 So we know that Bunnings has this reputation for being 0:08:10.361 --> 0:08:13.001 down to earth, family vibe is energy. 0:08:12.721 --> 0:08:15.161 And fun at Bunnings. Does it just exist? Was it 0:08:15.161 --> 0:08:16.681 something that you actively work on? 0:08:16.921 --> 0:08:19.361 If you'd ask me that question four years ago, I'd 0:08:19.401 --> 0:08:21.481 have said it just happens because we had a lot 0:08:21.481 --> 0:08:23.161 of experience, a lot of momentum, and then we went 0:08:23.161 --> 0:08:26.641 through the pandemic and you obviously know from your time 0:08:26.681 --> 0:08:29.601 at Virgin just how devastating that period of time was. 0:08:29.641 --> 0:08:32.201 And you know, for us, we went through a period 0:08:32.201 --> 0:08:34.961 of would we be allowed to keep serving customers, would 0:08:34.961 --> 0:08:37.881 we have to close down? You know, to suddenly being 0:08:38.041 --> 0:08:41.081 in accelerated growth because with every Australian and New Zealand 0:08:41.081 --> 0:08:43.441 are working from home, living at home, not being able 0:08:43.481 --> 0:08:46.001 to go out, there was a renewed interest in doing 0:08:46.041 --> 0:08:48.721 everything and anything around the house to stay active physically 0:08:48.761 --> 0:08:52.841 and mentally, so our trading performance really took off. That 0:08:52.921 --> 0:08:55.401 meant we had to recruit lots and lots of people 0:08:55.641 --> 0:08:58.881 tech crews and flight crews from all the airlines and 0:08:59.041 --> 0:09:01.761 people from service industries that weren't able to work somewhere 0:09:01.761 --> 0:09:04.521 else joining the Bunning S team, which was amazing. But 0:09:04.601 --> 0:09:07.281 we recruit as many people in two years as we 0:09:07.361 --> 0:09:09.721 had in a decade prior. And when you think about 0:09:09.761 --> 0:09:11.521 it through the culture lends, and I know that's something 0:09:11.561 --> 0:09:14.641 that is top of mind for you. You see this 0:09:14.721 --> 0:09:18.081 really quick cultural dilution and you don't anticipate that happening, 0:09:18.561 --> 0:09:21.281 But what happens is that you've got to go back 0:09:21.321 --> 0:09:24.601 and actually reset and refocus. So for us now, it's 0:09:24.601 --> 0:09:28.361 a very conscious discipline to make sure that reward and recognition, 0:09:29.121 --> 0:09:35.321 celebrating wrong service, celebrating achievements, recognizing when customers or team 0:09:35.721 --> 0:09:40.361 share with us positive experiences of service or teamwork, that 0:09:40.401 --> 0:09:42.881 we keep that going. And I think by taking the 0:09:42.881 --> 0:09:45.681 work we do seriously but not taking ourselves too seriously, 0:09:45.761 --> 0:09:48.281 I think we do keep the fun very much alive 0:09:48.401 --> 0:09:48.841 as well. 0:09:49.081 --> 0:09:51.361 I've heard the many times in men organizations where people 0:09:51.401 --> 0:09:53.481 go to pitch to the top to the executive team 0:09:53.521 --> 0:09:56.321 to get funding around employee experience or culture, and they 0:09:56.321 --> 0:09:57.801 get our well, what's going to be the ROI and 0:09:57.881 --> 0:10:00.201 investing or prioritizing it, it doesn't get looked at. 0:10:00.361 --> 0:10:02.481 Do you feel that there is a formula for that? 0:10:02.801 --> 0:10:03.761 Is it that you get it? 0:10:03.841 --> 0:10:05.481 Like in terms of people coming to you your team 0:10:05.481 --> 0:10:08.041 and wanting to spend money on things like culture and 0:10:08.081 --> 0:10:10.161 so forth, why is it that you get that. Is 0:10:10.161 --> 0:10:12.201 there a formula that you've got when it comes to investing. 0:10:12.281 --> 0:10:15.281 I think we're always interested in outcomes, right. I think 0:10:15.321 --> 0:10:16.961 if you try and look at things who are pure 0:10:17.681 --> 0:10:20.121 financial lends, particularly when it comes to things relating to 0:10:20.161 --> 0:10:22.681 people and culture, can be really hard to make those 0:10:22.681 --> 0:10:24.961 things stack right. And you'll have seen plenty of that. 0:10:25.081 --> 0:10:28.481 But you know, if we talk to other organizations, we 0:10:28.601 --> 0:10:31.481 talk to the clients of people that are pitching things 0:10:31.481 --> 0:10:33.841 to us and look at and understand the outcomes and 0:10:33.881 --> 0:10:36.601 say do these things fit with where our needs are? 0:10:36.921 --> 0:10:39.161 That's really important. I think the other bit, which sometimes 0:10:39.161 --> 0:10:42.001 can be a challenge, is that people will pitch all 0:10:42.041 --> 0:10:44.441 sorts of things to be organizations because there's a sense 0:10:44.481 --> 0:10:47.121 that there's probably a lot of money that's available if 0:10:47.121 --> 0:10:49.401 something is picked up, and you know, if something's really 0:10:49.401 --> 0:10:51.281 really good, for sure they'll be funding for it. But 0:10:51.761 --> 0:10:54.201 it's also great to work with organizations that do some 0:10:54.241 --> 0:10:57.641 really good due diligence really understand what's the problem I'm 0:10:57.641 --> 0:10:59.281 trying to solve, rather than come and say we've got 0:10:59.321 --> 0:11:02.641 this great program. Because you're unsurprising when you're a pretty 0:11:02.681 --> 0:11:05.761 large organization like Bunning sets we've got pretty well established 0:11:06.121 --> 0:11:08.961 activities and processes that if you didn't know about them 0:11:09.321 --> 0:11:11.041 from the outside looking in, you might say, well, that's 0:11:11.041 --> 0:11:13.121 a real opportunity, but actually we might have something that's 0:11:13.201 --> 0:11:16.121 quite mature or quite evolved. But we are very curious, 0:11:16.161 --> 0:11:18.801 so we're always looking to learn and improve and make 0:11:18.841 --> 0:11:20.321 things better. And I always have a chuckle a whund 0:11:20.321 --> 0:11:22.721 I get, you know, something on LinkedIn from someone you 0:11:22.761 --> 0:11:24.761 know suggesting that you know, wood Bunning is like to 0:11:24.761 --> 0:11:26.921 have a website, and it's like, maybe you should just 0:11:27.001 --> 0:11:29.481 jump online and google us first and see what we're doing. 0:11:29.521 --> 0:11:31.361 But you know, I think it is just finding those 0:11:31.401 --> 0:11:35.281 needs and opportunities and also to out building relationships. And 0:11:35.361 --> 0:11:38.401 I think in any sort of consultancy space, if you've 0:11:38.441 --> 0:11:41.681 got good relationships and that's the opportunity to listen and 0:11:41.761 --> 0:11:45.201 understand where the needs and opportunities are, and that creates 0:11:45.201 --> 0:11:48.721 the opportunity for not only new business, but repeat business 0:11:48.761 --> 0:11:49.121 as well. 0:11:49.641 --> 0:11:51.801 Yeah, look, that's good feedback in terms of I think 0:11:51.801 --> 0:11:53.961 for people who are pitching in that space that it's 0:11:53.961 --> 0:11:55.561 still about outcomes at the end of the day, right, 0:11:55.601 --> 0:11:57.721 I think sometimes that can get through. I do see 0:11:57.721 --> 0:12:00.321 people I've come across in a few organizations where people 0:12:00.601 --> 0:12:02.441 love the CEO, right, So they've got this kind of 0:12:02.561 --> 0:12:05.041 very charismatic CEO, but they're not so fond of, say, 0:12:05.161 --> 0:12:06.041 of the team members. 0:12:05.841 --> 0:12:06.521 Around the CEO. 0:12:06.801 --> 0:12:10.121 So how do you hold your own executive team for 0:12:10.681 --> 0:12:13.601 I guess sharing your values and your passion or the 0:12:13.601 --> 0:12:15.601 way you choose to show up. How do you make 0:12:15.641 --> 0:12:16.801 sure that that happens well. 0:12:17.161 --> 0:12:18.961 One of the challenges of being a CEO is that 0:12:19.041 --> 0:12:22.561 you know everyone it's true of me and my relationship 0:12:22.601 --> 0:12:24.521 with my box. You don't sort of want to put 0:12:24.561 --> 0:12:27.121 forward a poor image of your own performance. 0:12:27.161 --> 0:12:27.321 Now. 0:12:27.321 --> 0:12:29.681 You want to be authentic and you want to own mistakes. 0:12:29.721 --> 0:12:33.481 And I think that really strong, trusting senior executive relationships 0:12:33.521 --> 0:12:36.041 are built around being really open and transparent. So something's 0:12:36.081 --> 0:12:39.201 not right, calling it and accepting that and dealing with 0:12:39.241 --> 0:12:42.361 it is really important. But it is having good listening posts. 0:12:42.441 --> 0:12:45.481 And I think it's having you know people not only 0:12:45.521 --> 0:12:48.081 in your direct team, but around your direct team. 0:12:47.921 --> 0:12:50.481 Who you know and trust. You know who may not be. 0:12:50.561 --> 0:12:54.001 Politically orientated and sort of want to run tales or 0:12:54.561 --> 0:12:56.481 dob people in if something's not right, that they will 0:12:56.841 --> 0:13:01.161 points you to outcomes and activities or situations where you 0:13:01.241 --> 0:13:02.481 might want to look at it and kind of go. 0:13:02.601 --> 0:13:05.321 That's not a standard that I would be comfortable very 0:13:05.321 --> 0:13:08.161 clear with all of my general managers and executive team 0:13:08.241 --> 0:13:11.321 about some of the behaviors that are really important to me, 0:13:11.441 --> 0:13:13.601 you know, so safety and well being of our team, 0:13:14.161 --> 0:13:16.881 the behavior we walk past is the behavior we accept 0:13:17.161 --> 0:13:19.561 the fact that as senior executives, we're on show every 0:13:19.641 --> 0:13:21.601 single day. Like I'm very mindful every time I walk 0:13:21.601 --> 0:13:24.561 into our team cafe and our national support center. You know, 0:13:25.041 --> 0:13:26.961 we'll have people in there who are in doing a 0:13:27.161 --> 0:13:29.961 future leader program, they're our training managers, or have people 0:13:30.001 --> 0:13:33.001 in for a safety course or maybe just being inducted 0:13:33.001 --> 0:13:34.881 into the company. So you want to always make sure 0:13:34.921 --> 0:13:37.601 that you're speaking and engaging and connecting with as many 0:13:37.641 --> 0:13:40.241 people as you can to sort of illustrate the sort 0:13:40.241 --> 0:13:42.721 of style of leadership behavior that you want to see 0:13:43.121 --> 0:13:45.521 from others. And then it's about holding people to account. 0:13:45.601 --> 0:13:48.921 So if you know someone's behaviors aren't right, giving them 0:13:48.921 --> 0:13:51.521 the opportunity to change and involve is important because I 0:13:51.561 --> 0:13:53.761 think everyone has good days and bad days and can 0:13:53.801 --> 0:13:56.321 get things right and get things wrong. But if the 0:13:56.361 --> 0:13:59.201 behavior isn't right, the behavior isn't right over the medium term, 0:13:59.361 --> 0:14:01.081 so not the short term, not the long term, but 0:14:01.121 --> 0:14:03.401 the medium term. Then either we look at whether the 0:14:03.481 --> 0:14:05.281 role is right for the individual or the interview you're 0:14:05.401 --> 0:14:07.841 right for the organization. And you know, there's been plenty of, 0:14:08.121 --> 0:14:09.561 you know times where we've had to have some pretty 0:14:09.601 --> 0:14:12.921 tough conversations where culture hasn't been right and people have 0:14:13.161 --> 0:14:15.201 moved outside the organization because of that. 0:14:15.441 --> 0:14:18.001 I love that answer, Mike, because to me, that's the 0:14:18.001 --> 0:14:20.601 definition of the brave part, right, because I think, you know, 0:14:20.681 --> 0:14:23.241 you having some sort of non negotiables that people have 0:14:23.241 --> 0:14:24.841 to show up for I think is really important. I 0:14:24.881 --> 0:14:26.881 think what happens time and time again, and I hear 0:14:26.921 --> 0:14:28.721 this from a lot of junior staff is yeah that 0:14:28.801 --> 0:14:30.481 they say they believe in this, but then you've got 0:14:30.521 --> 0:14:32.041 somebody in a very senior or who behaves in. 0:14:32.041 --> 0:14:32.801 A very different way. 0:14:33.001 --> 0:14:34.721 They might make the money they might bring, you know 0:14:34.721 --> 0:14:37.081 what I mean, technically operationally they might do the right thing, 0:14:37.361 --> 0:14:40.321 but the way they treat other people as so misaligned 0:14:40.321 --> 0:14:42.561 with the individual I've seen that be the complete slope. 0:14:42.601 --> 0:14:43.681 So I think that's fantastic. 0:14:43.921 --> 0:14:46.201 What about you personally though, Like are there's certain personalities 0:14:46.201 --> 0:14:48.041 you like working with more than others. 0:14:48.281 --> 0:14:52.401 So diversity for me, there's gender balances, there's you know, 0:14:52.601 --> 0:14:55.441 ATSI representation, There's lots of different ways you can sort 0:14:55.481 --> 0:14:58.241 of slice and dice what diversity looks like. But for me, 0:14:58.321 --> 0:15:01.201 diversity is all about diversity of personality and thinking style 0:15:01.241 --> 0:15:03.641 because I think that's what you can build a really, 0:15:03.641 --> 0:15:06.881 really successful team. Sort of switched to a sporting analogy, 0:15:06.921 --> 0:15:09.561 and you know, if everyone wants to be Lewis Hamilton 0:15:09.601 --> 0:15:11.641 and drive the Formula One car, then you're not going 0:15:11.721 --> 0:15:13.561 to have a team. You've got to have engineers who 0:15:13.601 --> 0:15:16.641 have mechanics, that have test drivers, You've got to have 0:15:17.121 --> 0:15:20.401 people engaging with your sponsors and your partners. It truly 0:15:20.441 --> 0:15:23.441 takes a team. If you think about football or netball 0:15:23.521 --> 0:15:26.081 or basketball. You've got people who played defensive roles. You've 0:15:26.081 --> 0:15:28.081 play people who in the middle. You play people who 0:15:28.121 --> 0:15:30.841 are sort of in attacking and goal scoring opportunities. If 0:15:30.841 --> 0:15:33.801 everyone wants to score goals or purely saved goals, and 0:15:33.881 --> 0:15:35.721 again you don't have a team. It's the same in business. 0:15:35.801 --> 0:15:39.081 You need different styles of people with different thinking skills, 0:15:39.321 --> 0:15:42.201 different backgrounds and experiences, different lived experience. 0:15:42.441 --> 0:15:44.881 When you look at a problem or you're working through 0:15:44.881 --> 0:15:45.601 a problem. 0:15:45.281 --> 0:15:47.521 As a team, you're solving it with as many different 0:15:47.561 --> 0:15:49.641 options as you can possibly have. If you've got a 0:15:49.681 --> 0:15:52.801 team that is very much from the same background, not 0:15:52.841 --> 0:15:55.601 a lot of diversity of thinking. Even if you had 0:15:56.081 --> 0:15:58.481 half the room as male and half the room as female, 0:15:58.761 --> 0:16:00.801 chances are you're not going to get the same sort 0:16:00.841 --> 0:16:02.641 of thinking outcomes. 0:16:02.241 --> 0:16:02.841 That you would like. 0:16:02.961 --> 0:16:04.561 So, you know, I like to work with lots of 0:16:04.561 --> 0:16:08.001 different stuf people. But when you peel back a couple 0:16:08.001 --> 0:16:10.321 of layers of the onion, there's some values that have 0:16:10.401 --> 0:16:13.641 to be very aligned, which are all about being really honest, 0:16:14.201 --> 0:16:16.641 not too big for your boots, willing to help other people, 0:16:16.881 --> 0:16:17.881 and willing to have fun. 0:16:18.201 --> 0:16:20.281 So I have to ask you, I love that. I 0:16:20.281 --> 0:16:20.841 think that's great. 0:16:20.841 --> 0:16:23.561 The question is that that might sometimes is easier said 0:16:23.561 --> 0:16:25.681 than done when it comes to hiring this diversity. 0:16:25.761 --> 0:16:27.281 Right, So I get this impression. 0:16:27.321 --> 0:16:29.201 I could be completely wrong that Bunnings is probably not 0:16:29.241 --> 0:16:32.001 obsessed with having the perfect regime in the perfect track record. 0:16:32.241 --> 0:16:34.601 So are you looking for certain things when you hire people? 0:16:34.841 --> 0:16:37.321 It's an it depends answer. So obviously, at the end 0:16:37.361 --> 0:16:40.081 of the day, we're a home improvement outdoor living retailer, 0:16:40.161 --> 0:16:43.201 so we sell hammers and shovels and plants and paint 0:16:43.361 --> 0:16:47.601 and timber and board. You know, they're not particularly complex products, right, 0:16:47.601 --> 0:16:50.561 We're not in a scientific research space. We're not in 0:16:50.601 --> 0:16:54.441 the deep technical areas that many industries are in. So 0:16:54.761 --> 0:16:57.281 for the large majority of the team, we are very 0:16:57.361 --> 0:17:01.041 very focused on making sure that cultural fit is there 0:17:01.081 --> 0:17:03.921 because those teams are going to be working inside big teams, 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:07.361 as are oranizations grown and matured. We do have very 0:17:07.401 --> 0:17:13.321 deep domain expertise who people in culture, technology, data, property, legal, finance. 0:17:13.801 --> 0:17:16.761 You know, they're we're looking for a combination of strong 0:17:16.801 --> 0:17:20.401 cultural fit and strong technical skills, which can be more challenging. 0:17:20.481 --> 0:17:22.920 So you know, it can mean quite often we're saying 0:17:23.521 --> 0:17:25.440 you know not to someone who even may have a 0:17:25.481 --> 0:17:27.801 fantastic resume, but when we think about the impact of 0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:31.400