1 00:00:05,881 --> 00:00:13,521 Speaker 1: Apoche Production. Welcome to another episode of Brave Always the 2 00:00:13,601 --> 00:00:16,961 Speaker 1: CEO series. This series, we launch into the new world 3 00:00:17,081 --> 00:00:18,521 Speaker 1: of brave leadership. 4 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 2: Happy people create happy businesses, true. 5 00:00:21,241 --> 00:00:23,001 Speaker 3: Emotionally intelligent leadership. 6 00:00:23,041 --> 00:00:25,441 Speaker 1: I've picked up vomit once on our about our fourth flight, 7 00:00:25,681 --> 00:00:27,601 Speaker 1: and everybody thought, well, if it's good enough for him, 8 00:00:27,721 --> 00:00:28,441 Speaker 1: I can do it now. 9 00:00:28,521 --> 00:00:31,121 Speaker 3: We will be joined by culture and leadership. 10 00:00:30,721 --> 00:00:35,121 Speaker 1: Experts and some superstar CEOs who will courageously tell us 11 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 1: the truth behind their brave leadership journeys. I am personally 12 00:00:39,161 --> 00:00:42,001 Speaker 1: very excited to have the amazing Michael Schneider joined me today. 13 00:00:42,241 --> 00:00:45,201 Speaker 1: Michael is the managing director of one of Australia's most 14 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:48,560 Speaker 1: trusted and iconic brands, Bunnings. Having started his career as 15 00:00:48,561 --> 00:00:50,920 Speaker 1: a young fifteen year old at Target, Michael's career has 16 00:00:50,961 --> 00:00:54,521 Speaker 1: spanned leadership roles from Target to Westbach and then ultimately Bunnings, 17 00:00:54,561 --> 00:00:56,521 Speaker 1: where he joined in two thousand and five as a 18 00:00:56,561 --> 00:01:00,121 Speaker 1: state operations manager. Whilst his resume is impressive, the reason 19 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:02,561 Speaker 1: I'm thrilled to have him here today is here is 20 00:01:02,601 --> 00:01:04,681 Speaker 1: a man with one of the biggest brands in the country, 21 00:01:05,081 --> 00:01:08,041 Speaker 1: responsible for fifty three thousand team members and he is 22 00:01:08,081 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: deeply loved and respected by all who come across his path. 23 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 3: So welcome Michael. It's great to have you here today. 24 00:01:13,681 --> 00:01:15,481 Speaker 2: Great to be here, and thanks for the opportunity. 25 00:01:15,761 --> 00:01:18,681 Speaker 1: So, Michael, part of my excitement about interviewing you is 26 00:01:18,721 --> 00:01:21,840 Speaker 1: my fascination with what happens to leaders as they rise 27 00:01:21,881 --> 00:01:23,801 Speaker 1: through the ranks and make it to the top. So 28 00:01:24,081 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: you're exposed to leaders at all levels across all industries 29 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:30,321 Speaker 1: in Australia. Can I start with two questions, what behavior 30 00:01:30,681 --> 00:01:31,881 Speaker 1: or attitude do you. 31 00:01:31,801 --> 00:01:34,081 Speaker 3: Think is missing from leadership in this country? 32 00:01:34,521 --> 00:01:37,681 Speaker 1: And secondly, what unique attribute do you think Ossie leaders 33 00:01:37,721 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 1: have that no other country can match. 34 00:01:39,521 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 2: I think they're almost the same thing, ironically. I think, 35 00:01:42,441 --> 00:01:44,001 Speaker 2: you know, one of the things that's really unique in 36 00:01:44,041 --> 00:01:48,721 Speaker 2: Australia is the absence of hierarchy and formality, even more 37 00:01:48,761 --> 00:01:52,641 Speaker 2: formal organizations. When I speak to peers in Europe or 38 00:01:52,841 --> 00:01:56,041 Speaker 2: United States or United Kingdom, you know, there's a real 39 00:01:56,201 --> 00:01:59,961 Speaker 2: sense of importance attached to job title and sort of status, 40 00:02:00,001 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 2: and I think in some ways that can really define 41 00:02:02,681 --> 00:02:05,881 Speaker 2: for those leaders what their roles entail were. In Australia, 42 00:02:06,161 --> 00:02:09,481 Speaker 2: you know, I think it's far more egalitarian notwithstanding that 43 00:02:09,521 --> 00:02:12,481 Speaker 2: there is structure in hierarchy in all organizations. I think 44 00:02:12,521 --> 00:02:15,001 Speaker 2: there is a more natural, down to earth nature that 45 00:02:15,041 --> 00:02:19,201 Speaker 2: you come across with Australian leaders. But I think sometimes 46 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:22,321 Speaker 2: for many leaders they're afraid to let that guard down 47 00:02:22,361 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 2: when you get to know them. The issues are really common. 48 00:02:25,321 --> 00:02:27,441 Speaker 2: You know, we're really concerned about our teams, we are 49 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 2: very focused on our customers. We want to be doing 50 00:02:30,121 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 2: the right things by community and stakeholders. But it takes 51 00:02:33,441 --> 00:02:35,681 Speaker 2: a while to let those barriers fall down. And I 52 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:38,761 Speaker 2: think when you apply that through an organizational lens, that 53 00:02:38,841 --> 00:02:42,441 Speaker 2: can sometimes make it hard for an organization's team to 54 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:45,041 Speaker 2: really know and understand who their leader is and you 55 00:02:45,121 --> 00:02:47,601 Speaker 2: know what those values are. And I think that's something 56 00:02:47,641 --> 00:02:49,681 Speaker 2: that can be a little bit of a challenge. 57 00:02:49,881 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 1: Are you saying almost to a degree that being vulnerable 58 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,161 Speaker 1: at that level can be quite difficult or can take time. 59 00:02:55,401 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there's still a bit of a hangover 60 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:00,361 Speaker 2: of vulnerability being seen as a weakness or being seen 61 00:03:00,401 --> 00:03:03,161 Speaker 2: as something that can be exploitive. But I think if 62 00:03:03,201 --> 00:03:06,641 Speaker 2: you're confident in yourself, when you under stand the values 63 00:03:06,641 --> 00:03:08,721 Speaker 2: that are important to you and the values that are 64 00:03:08,921 --> 00:03:11,041 Speaker 2: you know that you want to sort of stand for 65 00:03:11,161 --> 00:03:13,921 Speaker 2: and stand up for. Then I think you can sort 66 00:03:13,921 --> 00:03:15,921 Speaker 2: of find your way to a place where you can 67 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:18,841 Speaker 2: be vulnerable and not be worried that that's going to 68 00:03:18,841 --> 00:03:20,841 Speaker 2: be used against you in some way, shape or form. 69 00:03:20,921 --> 00:03:22,361 Speaker 4: But I do think it's really tough. 70 00:03:22,401 --> 00:03:24,441 Speaker 2: You know, you've only got to open the newspaper any 71 00:03:24,481 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 2: other week, and the character assassinations of business leaders, sporting leaders, 72 00:03:29,921 --> 00:03:34,601 Speaker 2: cultural leaders, faith leaders, political leaders is incessant. So if 73 00:03:34,641 --> 00:03:38,641 Speaker 2: you're putting yourself out there and you're exposing some level 74 00:03:38,641 --> 00:03:41,921 Speaker 2: of weakness of vulnerability, then there's a level of risks 75 00:03:41,921 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 2: that probably didn't exist ten or fifteen years ago. And 76 00:03:45,761 --> 00:03:48,801 Speaker 2: what is a twenty four hour news and social news 77 00:03:48,841 --> 00:03:49,801 Speaker 2: cycle now. 78 00:03:49,841 --> 00:03:51,961 Speaker 1: I have obviously spoken to a couple of your team members, 79 00:03:52,001 --> 00:03:53,281 Speaker 1: and I do know afe you people who work to 80 00:03:53,281 --> 00:03:55,961 Speaker 1: Bunnings in their time, and they all say lots of 81 00:03:55,961 --> 00:03:56,721 Speaker 1: great things about you. 82 00:03:56,761 --> 00:03:58,281 Speaker 3: But I want to know if I went up to five. 83 00:03:58,161 --> 00:04:00,921 Speaker 1: Random Bunnings team members today and ask them what they 84 00:04:00,921 --> 00:04:02,001 Speaker 1: love about you, what would. 85 00:04:01,761 --> 00:04:04,201 Speaker 2: They say, Oh, there's probably plenty that don't love me. 86 00:04:04,241 --> 00:04:06,241 Speaker 2: To be truthful, it's a big team, as you said, 87 00:04:06,241 --> 00:04:08,641 Speaker 2: over fifty years, which is a real privilege to be 88 00:04:08,681 --> 00:04:10,761 Speaker 2: a part of such a big group of people. But 89 00:04:10,841 --> 00:04:12,921 Speaker 2: I think what I'd hope people would say is what 90 00:04:12,961 --> 00:04:15,881 Speaker 2: you see is what you get. That I'm approachable and 91 00:04:15,961 --> 00:04:20,281 Speaker 2: that I can empathize with the different experiences the team have. 92 00:04:20,361 --> 00:04:22,161 Speaker 2: I think some of that is spending most of my 93 00:04:22,241 --> 00:04:26,041 Speaker 2: career in the industry and doing almost every role, probably 94 00:04:26,041 --> 00:04:28,681 Speaker 2: from the shop floor to the role that I do today, 95 00:04:29,081 --> 00:04:31,361 Speaker 2: but also been at Bunnings for the better part of 96 00:04:31,401 --> 00:04:35,361 Speaker 2: twenty years. You do really long and enduring friendships, really 97 00:04:35,401 --> 00:04:39,721 Speaker 2: meaningful friendships, and I think that can help to really 98 00:04:39,721 --> 00:04:41,681 Speaker 2: build connection and trust, which are things that are I 99 00:04:41,721 --> 00:04:44,961 Speaker 2: think are fundamental foundations for any leader wanting to sort 100 00:04:44,961 --> 00:04:45,521 Speaker 2: of get ahead. 101 00:04:46,041 --> 00:04:46,561 Speaker 3: I agree. 102 00:04:46,681 --> 00:04:49,921 Speaker 1: I think being seen for me is the gold standard, right, 103 00:04:49,961 --> 00:04:51,481 Speaker 1: and I know that you do. You're out on the floor. 104 00:04:51,521 --> 00:04:53,921 Speaker 1: I think most images that I seem to find if. 105 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:54,881 Speaker 3: You are in a red outfit. 106 00:04:55,121 --> 00:04:57,041 Speaker 1: And I've heard a funny story about you serving a 107 00:04:57,081 --> 00:04:57,721 Speaker 1: customer once. 108 00:04:57,841 --> 00:04:59,321 Speaker 3: Did you mix paint? Did you chop woard? 109 00:04:59,601 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 4: No, I was cutting carpet. 110 00:05:00,921 --> 00:05:05,441 Speaker 2: I'm a very bad but passionate cyclist, and most years 111 00:05:05,521 --> 00:05:07,721 Speaker 2: my younger son and I go to Adelaide with some 112 00:05:07,761 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 2: friends and we spend time following the tour down Under, 113 00:05:10,961 --> 00:05:14,161 Speaker 2: and a couple of years back we were doing a 114 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:17,001 Speaker 2: national community barbecue to raise money for the bushfires, so 115 00:05:17,121 --> 00:05:18,921 Speaker 2: they sort of think end of twenty nineteen start of 116 00:05:19,001 --> 00:05:22,121 Speaker 2: twenty twenty the bushfires had devastated so many parts of 117 00:05:22,241 --> 00:05:26,401 Speaker 2: the country. Bunning's got behind some fundraising with barbecues and 118 00:05:26,641 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 2: we took our reds and my son was working for 119 00:05:28,561 --> 00:05:30,681 Speaker 2: Bunnings at the time, so we jumped on the barbecue 120 00:05:30,681 --> 00:05:33,201 Speaker 2: at one of our South Straining stores. And I can't 121 00:05:33,281 --> 00:05:35,361 Speaker 2: resist the opportunity to wander around with the store manager 122 00:05:35,401 --> 00:05:35,841 Speaker 2: and have a bit of. 123 00:05:35,801 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 4: A chat and talk to the team. 124 00:05:36,921 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 2: And yeah, customer needed some carpet cut and not something 125 00:05:40,641 --> 00:05:42,481 Speaker 2: that I do very often. I do know how to 126 00:05:42,481 --> 00:05:43,841 Speaker 2: do it and know how to do it safely, and 127 00:05:44,001 --> 00:05:46,001 Speaker 2: made sure that I gave them far more than the 128 00:05:46,721 --> 00:05:48,481 Speaker 2: out required, because I'd hope to be the one to 129 00:05:48,521 --> 00:05:52,401 Speaker 2: short change a customer. And yeah, the very sharp observation 130 00:05:52,601 --> 00:05:55,281 Speaker 2: from the gentleman there was that it was clearly something 131 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 2: that I didn't do very often, but I gave it 132 00:05:57,801 --> 00:05:59,681 Speaker 2: my all anyway, so it was pretty cool. 133 00:05:59,801 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 3: I love that. 134 00:06:00,801 --> 00:06:02,681 Speaker 1: So when you're out on the floor like that, like, 135 00:06:02,721 --> 00:06:04,041 Speaker 1: why do you do it? I mean, I know what 136 00:06:04,081 --> 00:06:06,921 Speaker 1: you do in the sense of obviously it's very connected 137 00:06:06,961 --> 00:06:08,801 Speaker 1: to the people, But what do you gain when you're 138 00:06:08,801 --> 00:06:09,161 Speaker 1: at the floor? 139 00:06:09,201 --> 00:06:10,841 Speaker 3: What do you learn that you couldn't learn anywhere else? 140 00:06:11,161 --> 00:06:14,161 Speaker 2: Oh, you learn so much because you know, you understand 141 00:06:14,201 --> 00:06:17,361 Speaker 2: what equipment's working, not working, more to our processes. You know, 142 00:06:17,401 --> 00:06:19,841 Speaker 2: it's really important. I was in a store recently that 143 00:06:19,921 --> 00:06:23,561 Speaker 2: had just undertaken a major refurbishment, you know, talking to 144 00:06:23,601 --> 00:06:25,241 Speaker 2: one of the team. You know, she was showing me 145 00:06:25,281 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 2: and she'd been in that department for ten plus years, 146 00:06:28,481 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 2: really understood customer need and customer traffic, and we're showing 147 00:06:31,561 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 2: me some of the frustrations you had with the way 148 00:06:33,641 --> 00:06:35,481 Speaker 2: we approached the layout, and you know, it was very 149 00:06:35,561 --> 00:06:37,841 Speaker 2: quick to sort of listen to that and resolve it. 150 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 2: In the normal course of business, that might take six, twelve, eighteen, 151 00:06:41,481 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 2: twenty four months for that sort of issue to bubble 152 00:06:43,481 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 2: up through other channels. 153 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:46,281 Speaker 4: So that listening is really important. 154 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:47,921 Speaker 2: And at the end of the day, you know, we're 155 00:06:47,961 --> 00:06:50,161 Speaker 2: all here to serve our customers, no matter what role 156 00:06:50,241 --> 00:06:52,681 Speaker 2: we play in the business, and every customer is important, 157 00:06:52,721 --> 00:06:54,601 Speaker 2: So you know, it's something that I can help with, 158 00:06:54,601 --> 00:06:56,281 Speaker 2: then I'm always happy to do it, even if that's 159 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:58,721 Speaker 2: just helping someone load some potty mix in the boot 160 00:06:58,761 --> 00:07:02,121 Speaker 2: of their car. But we've got amazingly expert team members 161 00:07:02,161 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 2: who usually can dive in and save the day and 162 00:07:04,561 --> 00:07:06,280 Speaker 2: stop me from making a goose of myself. 163 00:07:07,081 --> 00:07:07,601 Speaker 3: I agree. 164 00:07:07,601 --> 00:07:09,841 Speaker 1: Like you're talking about the speed of getting information right 165 00:07:09,841 --> 00:07:12,121 Speaker 1: as well, right the problems like you get them firsthand. 166 00:07:12,681 --> 00:07:15,761 Speaker 3: But so few leaders in your level would do that. 167 00:07:15,881 --> 00:07:16,801 Speaker 3: Why do you think that is? 168 00:07:18,361 --> 00:07:21,201 Speaker 2: Look, I think every organization has a different needs when 169 00:07:21,201 --> 00:07:26,201 Speaker 2: it comes to customers. Some organizations focus on large corporate clients, 170 00:07:26,241 --> 00:07:28,361 Speaker 2: you know, because that's where the majority of the revenue 171 00:07:28,361 --> 00:07:32,001 Speaker 2: comes from, or they've focused on strategic partnerships. I think 172 00:07:32,401 --> 00:07:36,201 Speaker 2: Bunnings is such a ubiquitous part of the Australian psyche 173 00:07:36,241 --> 00:07:38,641 Speaker 2: and community that you know, if you're not a financial 174 00:07:38,641 --> 00:07:41,121 Speaker 2: shareholder in our parent company, West Farmers, and you're definitely 175 00:07:41,121 --> 00:07:44,441 Speaker 2: a social shareholder in Bunnings, and our shares will usually 176 00:07:44,481 --> 00:07:46,681 Speaker 2: sold one sausage of the time on the weekend, and 177 00:07:47,201 --> 00:07:49,201 Speaker 2: you know, I think when people have that connection, there's 178 00:07:49,201 --> 00:07:51,561 Speaker 2: an expectation that we're going to be really interested in 179 00:07:51,721 --> 00:07:54,481 Speaker 2: what their needs are and what interests them and what 180 00:07:54,481 --> 00:07:56,681 Speaker 2: they're going to be doing to make their homes better 181 00:07:56,761 --> 00:07:59,401 Speaker 2: or safer or keep their businesses running. So yeah, for me, 182 00:07:59,481 --> 00:08:02,641 Speaker 2: it's it's about walking the talk and being really connected 183 00:08:02,681 --> 00:08:04,481 Speaker 2: and I think that's at the heart of our sort 184 00:08:04,481 --> 00:08:08,081 Speaker 2: of servant leadership model and our leadership culture at Bunnings. 185 00:08:08,361 --> 00:08:10,361 Speaker 1: So we know that Bunnings has this reputation for being 186 00:08:10,361 --> 00:08:13,001 Speaker 1: down to earth, family vibe is energy. 187 00:08:12,721 --> 00:08:15,161 Speaker 3: And fun at Bunnings. Does it just exist? Was it 188 00:08:15,161 --> 00:08:16,681 Speaker 3: something that you actively work on? 189 00:08:16,921 --> 00:08:19,361 Speaker 2: If you'd ask me that question four years ago, I'd 190 00:08:19,401 --> 00:08:21,481 Speaker 2: have said it just happens because we had a lot 191 00:08:21,481 --> 00:08:23,161 Speaker 2: of experience, a lot of momentum, and then we went 192 00:08:23,161 --> 00:08:26,641 Speaker 2: through the pandemic and you obviously know from your time 193 00:08:26,681 --> 00:08:29,601 Speaker 2: at Virgin just how devastating that period of time was. 194 00:08:29,641 --> 00:08:32,201 Speaker 2: And you know, for us, we went through a period 195 00:08:32,201 --> 00:08:34,961 Speaker 2: of would we be allowed to keep serving customers, would 196 00:08:34,961 --> 00:08:37,881 Speaker 2: we have to close down? You know, to suddenly being 197 00:08:38,041 --> 00:08:41,081 Speaker 2: in accelerated growth because with every Australian and New Zealand 198 00:08:41,081 --> 00:08:43,441 Speaker 2: are working from home, living at home, not being able 199 00:08:43,481 --> 00:08:46,001 Speaker 2: to go out, there was a renewed interest in doing 200 00:08:46,041 --> 00:08:48,721 Speaker 2: everything and anything around the house to stay active physically 201 00:08:48,761 --> 00:08:52,841 Speaker 2: and mentally, so our trading performance really took off. That 202 00:08:52,921 --> 00:08:55,401 Speaker 2: meant we had to recruit lots and lots of people 203 00:08:55,641 --> 00:08:58,881 Speaker 2: tech crews and flight crews from all the airlines and 204 00:08:59,041 --> 00:09:01,761 Speaker 2: people from service industries that weren't able to work somewhere 205 00:09:01,761 --> 00:09:04,521 Speaker 2: else joining the Bunning S team, which was amazing. But 206 00:09:04,601 --> 00:09:07,281 Speaker 2: we recruit as many people in two years as we 207 00:09:07,361 --> 00:09:09,721 Speaker 2: had in a decade prior. And when you think about 208 00:09:09,761 --> 00:09:11,521 Speaker 2: it through the culture lends, and I know that's something 209 00:09:11,561 --> 00:09:14,641 Speaker 2: that is top of mind for you. You see this 210 00:09:14,721 --> 00:09:18,081 Speaker 2: really quick cultural dilution and you don't anticipate that happening, 211 00:09:18,561 --> 00:09:21,281 Speaker 2: But what happens is that you've got to go back 212 00:09:21,321 --> 00:09:24,601 Speaker 2: and actually reset and refocus. So for us now, it's 213 00:09:24,601 --> 00:09:28,361 Speaker 2: a very conscious discipline to make sure that reward and recognition, 214 00:09:29,121 --> 00:09:35,321 Speaker 2: celebrating wrong service, celebrating achievements, recognizing when customers or team 215 00:09:35,721 --> 00:09:40,361 Speaker 2: share with us positive experiences of service or teamwork, that 216 00:09:40,401 --> 00:09:42,881 Speaker 2: we keep that going. And I think by taking the 217 00:09:42,881 --> 00:09:45,681 Speaker 2: work we do seriously but not taking ourselves too seriously, 218 00:09:45,761 --> 00:09:48,281 Speaker 2: I think we do keep the fun very much alive 219 00:09:48,401 --> 00:09:48,841 Speaker 2: as well. 220 00:09:49,081 --> 00:09:51,361 Speaker 1: I've heard the many times in men organizations where people 221 00:09:51,401 --> 00:09:53,481 Speaker 1: go to pitch to the top to the executive team 222 00:09:53,521 --> 00:09:56,321 Speaker 1: to get funding around employee experience or culture, and they 223 00:09:56,321 --> 00:09:57,801 Speaker 1: get our well, what's going to be the ROI and 224 00:09:57,881 --> 00:10:00,201 Speaker 1: investing or prioritizing it, it doesn't get looked at. 225 00:10:00,361 --> 00:10:02,481 Speaker 3: Do you feel that there is a formula for that? 226 00:10:02,801 --> 00:10:03,761 Speaker 3: Is it that you get it? 227 00:10:03,841 --> 00:10:05,481 Speaker 1: Like in terms of people coming to you your team 228 00:10:05,481 --> 00:10:08,041 Speaker 1: and wanting to spend money on things like culture and 229 00:10:08,081 --> 00:10:10,161 Speaker 1: so forth, why is it that you get that. Is 230 00:10:10,161 --> 00:10:12,201 Speaker 1: there a formula that you've got when it comes to investing. 231 00:10:12,281 --> 00:10:15,281 Speaker 2: I think we're always interested in outcomes, right. I think 232 00:10:15,321 --> 00:10:16,961 Speaker 2: if you try and look at things who are pure 233 00:10:17,681 --> 00:10:20,121 Speaker 2: financial lends, particularly when it comes to things relating to 234 00:10:20,161 --> 00:10:22,681 Speaker 2: people and culture, can be really hard to make those 235 00:10:22,681 --> 00:10:24,961 Speaker 2: things stack right. And you'll have seen plenty of that. 236 00:10:25,081 --> 00:10:28,481 Speaker 2: But you know, if we talk to other organizations, we 237 00:10:28,601 --> 00:10:31,481 Speaker 2: talk to the clients of people that are pitching things 238 00:10:31,481 --> 00:10:33,841 Speaker 2: to us and look at and understand the outcomes and 239 00:10:33,881 --> 00:10:36,601 Speaker 2: say do these things fit with where our needs are? 240 00:10:36,921 --> 00:10:39,161 Speaker 2: That's really important. I think the other bit, which sometimes 241 00:10:39,161 --> 00:10:42,001 Speaker 2: can be a challenge, is that people will pitch all 242 00:10:42,041 --> 00:10:44,441 Speaker 2: sorts of things to be organizations because there's a sense 243 00:10:44,481 --> 00:10:47,121 Speaker 2: that there's probably a lot of money that's available if 244 00:10:47,121 --> 00:10:49,401 Speaker 2: something is picked up, and you know, if something's really 245 00:10:49,401 --> 00:10:51,281 Speaker 2: really good, for sure they'll be funding for it. But 246 00:10:51,761 --> 00:10:54,201 Speaker 2: it's also great to work with organizations that do some 247 00:10:54,241 --> 00:10:57,641 Speaker 2: really good due diligence really understand what's the problem I'm 248 00:10:57,641 --> 00:10:59,281 Speaker 2: trying to solve, rather than come and say we've got 249 00:10:59,321 --> 00:11:02,641 Speaker 2: this great program. Because you're unsurprising when you're a pretty 250 00:11:02,681 --> 00:11:05,761 Speaker 2: large organization like Bunning sets we've got pretty well established 251 00:11:06,121 --> 00:11:08,961 Speaker 2: activities and processes that if you didn't know about them 252 00:11:09,321 --> 00:11:11,041 Speaker 2: from the outside looking in, you might say, well, that's 253 00:11:11,041 --> 00:11:13,121 Speaker 2: a real opportunity, but actually we might have something that's 254 00:11:13,201 --> 00:11:16,121 Speaker 2: quite mature or quite evolved. But we are very curious, 255 00:11:16,161 --> 00:11:18,801 Speaker 2: so we're always looking to learn and improve and make 256 00:11:18,841 --> 00:11:20,321 Speaker 2: things better. And I always have a chuckle a whund 257 00:11:20,321 --> 00:11:22,721 Speaker 2: I get, you know, something on LinkedIn from someone you 258 00:11:22,761 --> 00:11:24,761 Speaker 2: know suggesting that you know, wood Bunning is like to 259 00:11:24,761 --> 00:11:26,921 Speaker 2: have a website, and it's like, maybe you should just 260 00:11:27,001 --> 00:11:29,481 Speaker 2: jump online and google us first and see what we're doing. 261 00:11:29,521 --> 00:11:31,361 Speaker 2: But you know, I think it is just finding those 262 00:11:31,401 --> 00:11:35,281 Speaker 2: needs and opportunities and also to out building relationships. And 263 00:11:35,361 --> 00:11:38,401 Speaker 2: I think in any sort of consultancy space, if you've 264 00:11:38,441 --> 00:11:41,681 Speaker 2: got good relationships and that's the opportunity to listen and 265 00:11:41,761 --> 00:11:45,201 Speaker 2: understand where the needs and opportunities are, and that creates 266 00:11:45,201 --> 00:11:48,721 Speaker 2: the opportunity for not only new business, but repeat business 267 00:11:48,761 --> 00:11:49,121 Speaker 2: as well. 268 00:11:49,641 --> 00:11:51,801 Speaker 1: Yeah, look, that's good feedback in terms of I think 269 00:11:51,801 --> 00:11:53,961 Speaker 1: for people who are pitching in that space that it's 270 00:11:53,961 --> 00:11:55,561 Speaker 1: still about outcomes at the end of the day, right, 271 00:11:55,601 --> 00:11:57,721 Speaker 1: I think sometimes that can get through. I do see 272 00:11:57,721 --> 00:12:00,321 Speaker 1: people I've come across in a few organizations where people 273 00:12:00,601 --> 00:12:02,441 Speaker 1: love the CEO, right, So they've got this kind of 274 00:12:02,561 --> 00:12:05,041 Speaker 1: very charismatic CEO, but they're not so fond of, say, 275 00:12:05,161 --> 00:12:06,041 Speaker 1: of the team members. 276 00:12:05,841 --> 00:12:06,521 Speaker 3: Around the CEO. 277 00:12:06,801 --> 00:12:10,121 Speaker 1: So how do you hold your own executive team for 278 00:12:10,681 --> 00:12:13,601 Speaker 1: I guess sharing your values and your passion or the 279 00:12:13,601 --> 00:12:15,601 Speaker 1: way you choose to show up. How do you make 280 00:12:15,641 --> 00:12:16,801 Speaker 1: sure that that happens well. 281 00:12:17,161 --> 00:12:18,961 Speaker 2: One of the challenges of being a CEO is that 282 00:12:19,041 --> 00:12:22,561 Speaker 2: you know everyone it's true of me and my relationship 283 00:12:22,601 --> 00:12:24,521 Speaker 2: with my box. You don't sort of want to put 284 00:12:24,561 --> 00:12:27,121 Speaker 2: forward a poor image of your own performance. 285 00:12:27,161 --> 00:12:27,321 Speaker 4: Now. 286 00:12:27,321 --> 00:12:29,681 Speaker 2: You want to be authentic and you want to own mistakes. 287 00:12:29,721 --> 00:12:33,481 Speaker 2: And I think that really strong, trusting senior executive relationships 288 00:12:33,521 --> 00:12:36,041 Speaker 2: are built around being really open and transparent. So something's 289 00:12:36,081 --> 00:12:39,201 Speaker 2: not right, calling it and accepting that and dealing with 290 00:12:39,241 --> 00:12:42,361 Speaker 2: it is really important. But it is having good listening posts. 291 00:12:42,441 --> 00:12:45,481 Speaker 2: And I think it's having you know people not only 292 00:12:45,521 --> 00:12:48,081 Speaker 2: in your direct team, but around your direct team. 293 00:12:47,921 --> 00:12:50,481 Speaker 4: Who you know and trust. You know who may not be. 294 00:12:50,561 --> 00:12:54,001 Speaker 2: Politically orientated and sort of want to run tales or 295 00:12:54,561 --> 00:12:56,481 Speaker 2: dob people in if something's not right, that they will 296 00:12:56,841 --> 00:13:01,161 Speaker 2: points you to outcomes and activities or situations where you 297 00:13:01,241 --> 00:13:02,481 Speaker 2: might want to look at it and kind of go. 298 00:13:02,601 --> 00:13:05,321 Speaker 2: That's not a standard that I would be comfortable very 299 00:13:05,321 --> 00:13:08,161 Speaker 2: clear with all of my general managers and executive team 300 00:13:08,241 --> 00:13:11,321 Speaker 2: about some of the behaviors that are really important to me, 301 00:13:11,441 --> 00:13:13,601 Speaker 2: you know, so safety and well being of our team, 302 00:13:14,161 --> 00:13:16,881 Speaker 2: the behavior we walk past is the behavior we accept 303 00:13:17,161 --> 00:13:19,561 Speaker 2: the fact that as senior executives, we're on show every 304 00:13:19,641 --> 00:13:21,601 Speaker 2: single day. Like I'm very mindful every time I walk 305 00:13:21,601 --> 00:13:24,561 Speaker 2: into our team cafe and our national support center. You know, 306 00:13:25,041 --> 00:13:26,961 Speaker 2: we'll have people in there who are in doing a 307 00:13:27,161 --> 00:13:29,961 Speaker 2: future leader program, they're our training managers, or have people 308 00:13:30,001 --> 00:13:33,001 Speaker 2: in for a safety course or maybe just being inducted 309 00:13:33,001 --> 00:13:34,881 Speaker 2: into the company. So you want to always make sure 310 00:13:34,921 --> 00:13:37,601 Speaker 2: that you're speaking and engaging and connecting with as many 311 00:13:37,641 --> 00:13:40,241 Speaker 2: people as you can to sort of illustrate the sort 312 00:13:40,241 --> 00:13:42,721 Speaker 2: of style of leadership behavior that you want to see 313 00:13:43,121 --> 00:13:45,521 Speaker 2: from others. And then it's about holding people to account. 314 00:13:45,601 --> 00:13:48,921 Speaker 2: So if you know someone's behaviors aren't right, giving them 315 00:13:48,921 --> 00:13:51,521 Speaker 2: the opportunity to change and involve is important because I 316 00:13:51,561 --> 00:13:53,761 Speaker 2: think everyone has good days and bad days and can 317 00:13:53,801 --> 00:13:56,321 Speaker 2: get things right and get things wrong. But if the 318 00:13:56,361 --> 00:13:59,201 Speaker 2: behavior isn't right, the behavior isn't right over the medium term, 319 00:13:59,361 --> 00:14:01,081 Speaker 2: so not the short term, not the long term, but 320 00:14:01,121 --> 00:14:03,401 Speaker 2: the medium term. Then either we look at whether the 321 00:14:03,481 --> 00:14:05,281 Speaker 2: role is right for the individual or the interview you're 322 00:14:05,401 --> 00:14:07,841 Speaker 2: right for the organization. And you know, there's been plenty of, 323 00:14:08,121 --> 00:14:09,561 Speaker 2: you know times where we've had to have some pretty 324 00:14:09,601 --> 00:14:12,921 Speaker 2: tough conversations where culture hasn't been right and people have 325 00:14:13,161 --> 00:14:15,201 Speaker 2: moved outside the organization because of that. 326 00:14:15,441 --> 00:14:18,001 Speaker 1: I love that answer, Mike, because to me, that's the 327 00:14:18,001 --> 00:14:20,601 Speaker 1: definition of the brave part, right, because I think, you know, 328 00:14:20,681 --> 00:14:23,241 Speaker 1: you having some sort of non negotiables that people have 329 00:14:23,241 --> 00:14:24,841 Speaker 1: to show up for I think is really important. I 330 00:14:24,881 --> 00:14:26,881 Speaker 1: think what happens time and time again, and I hear 331 00:14:26,921 --> 00:14:28,721 Speaker 1: this from a lot of junior staff is yeah that 332 00:14:28,801 --> 00:14:30,481 Speaker 1: they say they believe in this, but then you've got 333 00:14:30,521 --> 00:14:32,041 Speaker 1: somebody in a very senior or who behaves in. 334 00:14:32,041 --> 00:14:32,801 Speaker 3: A very different way. 335 00:14:33,001 --> 00:14:34,721 Speaker 1: They might make the money they might bring, you know 336 00:14:34,721 --> 00:14:37,081 Speaker 1: what I mean, technically operationally they might do the right thing, 337 00:14:37,361 --> 00:14:40,321 Speaker 1: but the way they treat other people as so misaligned 338 00:14:40,321 --> 00:14:42,561 Speaker 1: with the individual I've seen that be the complete slope. 339 00:14:42,601 --> 00:14:43,681 Speaker 3: So I think that's fantastic. 340 00:14:43,921 --> 00:14:46,201 Speaker 1: What about you personally though, Like are there's certain personalities 341 00:14:46,201 --> 00:14:48,041 Speaker 1: you like working with more than others. 342 00:14:48,281 --> 00:14:52,401 Speaker 2: So diversity for me, there's gender balances, there's you know, 343 00:14:52,601 --> 00:14:55,441 Speaker 2: ATSI representation, There's lots of different ways you can sort 344 00:14:55,481 --> 00:14:58,241 Speaker 2: of slice and dice what diversity looks like. But for me, 345 00:14:58,321 --> 00:15:01,201 Speaker 2: diversity is all about diversity of personality and thinking style 346 00:15:01,241 --> 00:15:03,641 Speaker 2: because I think that's what you can build a really, 347 00:15:03,641 --> 00:15:06,881 Speaker 2: really successful team. Sort of switched to a sporting analogy, 348 00:15:06,921 --> 00:15:09,561 Speaker 2: and you know, if everyone wants to be Lewis Hamilton 349 00:15:09,601 --> 00:15:11,641 Speaker 2: and drive the Formula One car, then you're not going 350 00:15:11,721 --> 00:15:13,561 Speaker 2: to have a team. You've got to have engineers who 351 00:15:13,601 --> 00:15:16,641 Speaker 2: have mechanics, that have test drivers, You've got to have 352 00:15:17,121 --> 00:15:20,401 Speaker 2: people engaging with your sponsors and your partners. It truly 353 00:15:20,441 --> 00:15:23,441 Speaker 2: takes a team. If you think about football or netball 354 00:15:23,521 --> 00:15:26,081 Speaker 2: or basketball. You've got people who played defensive roles. You've 355 00:15:26,081 --> 00:15:28,081 Speaker 2: play people who in the middle. You play people who 356 00:15:28,121 --> 00:15:30,841 Speaker 2: are sort of in attacking and goal scoring opportunities. If 357 00:15:30,841 --> 00:15:33,801 Speaker 2: everyone wants to score goals or purely saved goals, and 358 00:15:33,881 --> 00:15:35,721 Speaker 2: again you don't have a team. It's the same in business. 359 00:15:35,801 --> 00:15:39,081 Speaker 2: You need different styles of people with different thinking skills, 360 00:15:39,321 --> 00:15:42,201 Speaker 2: different backgrounds and experiences, different lived experience. 361 00:15:42,441 --> 00:15:44,881 Speaker 4: When you look at a problem or you're working through 362 00:15:44,881 --> 00:15:45,601 Speaker 4: a problem. 363 00:15:45,281 --> 00:15:47,521 Speaker 2: As a team, you're solving it with as many different 364 00:15:47,561 --> 00:15:49,641 Speaker 2: options as you can possibly have. If you've got a 365 00:15:49,681 --> 00:15:52,801 Speaker 2: team that is very much from the same background, not 366 00:15:52,841 --> 00:15:55,601 Speaker 2: a lot of diversity of thinking. Even if you had 367 00:15:56,081 --> 00:15:58,481 Speaker 2: half the room as male and half the room as female, 368 00:15:58,761 --> 00:16:00,801 Speaker 2: chances are you're not going to get the same sort 369 00:16:00,841 --> 00:16:02,641 Speaker 2: of thinking outcomes. 370 00:16:02,241 --> 00:16:02,841 Speaker 4: That you would like. 371 00:16:02,961 --> 00:16:04,561 Speaker 2: So, you know, I like to work with lots of 372 00:16:04,561 --> 00:16:08,001 Speaker 2: different stuf people. But when you peel back a couple 373 00:16:08,001 --> 00:16:10,321 Speaker 2: of layers of the onion, there's some values that have 374 00:16:10,401 --> 00:16:13,641 Speaker 2: to be very aligned, which are all about being really honest, 375 00:16:14,201 --> 00:16:16,641 Speaker 2: not too big for your boots, willing to help other people, 376 00:16:16,881 --> 00:16:17,881 Speaker 2: and willing to have fun. 377 00:16:18,201 --> 00:16:20,281 Speaker 3: So I have to ask you, I love that. I 378 00:16:20,281 --> 00:16:20,841 Speaker 3: think that's great. 379 00:16:20,841 --> 00:16:23,561 Speaker 1: The question is that that might sometimes is easier said 380 00:16:23,561 --> 00:16:25,681 Speaker 1: than done when it comes to hiring this diversity. 381 00:16:25,761 --> 00:16:27,281 Speaker 3: Right, So I get this impression. 382 00:16:27,321 --> 00:16:29,201 Speaker 1: I could be completely wrong that Bunnings is probably not 383 00:16:29,241 --> 00:16:32,001 Speaker 1: obsessed with having the perfect regime in the perfect track record. 384 00:16:32,241 --> 00:16:34,601 Speaker 1: So are you looking for certain things when you hire people? 385 00:16:34,841 --> 00:16:37,321 Speaker 2: It's an it depends answer. So obviously, at the end 386 00:16:37,361 --> 00:16:40,081 Speaker 2: of the day, we're a home improvement outdoor living retailer, 387 00:16:40,161 --> 00:16:43,201 Speaker 2: so we sell hammers and shovels and plants and paint 388 00:16:43,361 --> 00:16:47,601 Speaker 2: and timber and board. You know, they're not particularly complex products, right, 389 00:16:47,601 --> 00:16:50,561 Speaker 2: We're not in a scientific research space. We're not in 390 00:16:50,601 --> 00:16:54,441 Speaker 2: the deep technical areas that many industries are in. So 391 00:16:54,761 --> 00:16:57,281 Speaker 2: for the large majority of the team, we are very 392 00:16:57,361 --> 00:17:01,041 Speaker 2: very focused on making sure that cultural fit is there 393 00:17:01,081 --> 00:17:03,921 Speaker 2: because those teams are going to be working inside big teams, 394 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:07,361 Speaker 2: as are oranizations grown and matured. We do have very 395 00:17:07,401 --> 00:17:13,321 Speaker 2: deep domain expertise who people in culture, technology, data, property, legal, finance. 396 00:17:13,801 --> 00:17:16,761 Speaker 2: You know, they're we're looking for a combination of strong 397 00:17:16,801 --> 00:17:20,401 Speaker 2: cultural fit and strong technical skills, which can be more challenging. 398 00:17:20,481 --> 00:17:22,920 Speaker 2: So you know, it can mean quite often we're saying 399 00:17:23,521 --> 00:17:25,440 Speaker 2: you know not to someone who even may have a 400 00:17:25,481 --> 00:17:27,801 Speaker 2: fantastic resume, but when we think about the impact of 401 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:31,400 Speaker 2: that person's style of personality might have on our team, 402 00:17:31,801 --> 00:17:34,161 Speaker 2: the risk is too big. And we have made those 403 00:17:34,241 --> 00:17:37,321 Speaker 2: hiring mistakes in the past, like every organization has. And 404 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:40,041 Speaker 2: I think no matter how good your selection processes are, 405 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:42,920 Speaker 2: there'll be people that seemed like a great choice at 406 00:17:42,921 --> 00:17:45,441 Speaker 2: the time that didn't work out the way anyone hopeful them, 407 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:49,120 Speaker 2: or the organization or their team. So being focused on 408 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:51,321 Speaker 2: that cultural fit is incredibly important to us. 409 00:17:51,481 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 1: So you are universally admired, Mike, and you obviously operate 410 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:56,680 Speaker 1: and make decisions with a very clear set of values. 411 00:17:56,961 --> 00:17:59,521 Speaker 1: So can you tell me a situation where a decision 412 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:02,241 Speaker 1: you had to make presented a conflict with your values 413 00:18:02,681 --> 00:18:04,281 Speaker 1: or somewhere you had to make a call we didn't 414 00:18:04,281 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 1: feel comfortable with the time, but it served a bigger purpose. 415 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:10,321 Speaker 2: There are always going to be times where those things occur, 416 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:15,641 Speaker 2: and I think inevitably it's where your connection and relationship 417 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 2: with an individual over a long period of time comes 418 00:18:18,921 --> 00:18:22,641 Speaker 2: into conflict with a situation where the values. 419 00:18:22,360 --> 00:18:23,481 Speaker 4: Line has been crossed. 420 00:18:24,041 --> 00:18:26,561 Speaker 2: You know, I've worked with many leaders over many years 421 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 2: and you might be aware of something going on in 422 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:31,321 Speaker 2: their personal life or some other challenges that they're facing 423 00:18:31,360 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 2: that have manifested in behaviors where either I just can't 424 00:18:34,120 --> 00:18:37,481 Speaker 2: walk past or I've put someone into a role where 425 00:18:37,481 --> 00:18:39,561 Speaker 2: I really think they're going to be able to rise 426 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:42,761 Speaker 2: to the occasion, really shine and really grow and be successful. 427 00:18:42,801 --> 00:18:44,921 Speaker 2: And when they've got into the role, you know, it's 428 00:18:44,961 --> 00:18:47,521 Speaker 2: become evident to them and to you that it's either 429 00:18:47,561 --> 00:18:51,041 Speaker 2: one promotion too many, or the skills that everyone believes 430 00:18:51,041 --> 00:18:53,841 Speaker 2: that the individual had really aren't there or aren't there 431 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 2: to the level that they're needed. And you've got to 432 00:18:55,721 --> 00:18:59,201 Speaker 2: make those tough calls. And equally, one of the really 433 00:18:59,201 --> 00:19:01,241 Speaker 2: important parts of my role that I sort of think 434 00:19:01,241 --> 00:19:02,920 Speaker 2: about is how his Bunning is going to be a 435 00:19:02,961 --> 00:19:06,201 Speaker 2: really successful company ten, fifteen, twenty years down the track 436 00:19:06,241 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 2: when I no longer hear the foundations that we're building, 437 00:19:09,120 --> 00:19:11,521 Speaker 2: the renovations we're making to our business all the time 438 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:14,601 Speaker 2: are all designed so that you know, fifteen twenty years 439 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 2: down the track, the brand has the same levels of 440 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,160 Speaker 2: trust and equity that it has that team want to 441 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:22,241 Speaker 2: be a part of it. With culture, you know, has 442 00:19:22,241 --> 00:19:23,801 Speaker 2: a really consistent. 443 00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 4: Feel to it. 444 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:26,801 Speaker 2: It will continue to evolve as cultures do. But how 445 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:30,400 Speaker 2: can you ensure those things? And that sometimes also means 446 00:19:30,561 --> 00:19:34,120 Speaker 2: reshaping the organization. So you know, sometimes we might have 447 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:37,321 Speaker 2: someone who's technically very good in their role, culturally very 448 00:19:37,321 --> 00:19:39,360 Speaker 2: good in their role, but is it a stage in 449 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:41,360 Speaker 2: their career where you know, to leave them in the 450 00:19:41,441 --> 00:19:43,801 Speaker 2: role actually is going to inhibit the organization being more 451 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:46,561 Speaker 2: successful because either we need to redesign or we need 452 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:48,761 Speaker 2: to be able to move that individual to other talent 453 00:19:48,921 --> 00:19:52,001 Speaker 2: flow through. So they're never easy conversations to have, but 454 00:19:52,041 --> 00:19:53,680 Speaker 2: I think you can then come back to your value 455 00:19:53,681 --> 00:19:57,001 Speaker 2: set and go, I'm going to have a really honest conversation, 456 00:19:57,360 --> 00:20:01,200 Speaker 2: you know, And I think the individuals, whilst sometimes you know, 457 00:20:01,481 --> 00:20:03,680 Speaker 2: take those conversations to heart and they can be a 458 00:20:03,681 --> 00:20:06,281 Speaker 2: bit emotional, I think when they stop and look back, 459 00:20:06,761 --> 00:20:08,920 Speaker 2: you know, we'll go, I've at least been treated fairly 460 00:20:09,281 --> 00:20:11,561 Speaker 2: and with dignity and with respect, and I can look 461 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:13,761 Speaker 2: back on that contribution I've made at Bundance in a 462 00:20:13,801 --> 00:20:17,081 Speaker 2: positive way and feel proud of their achievements rather than well, 463 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:19,321 Speaker 2: I just wasn't valued anymore and I was sort of 464 00:20:19,360 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 2: thrown at the door. 465 00:20:20,281 --> 00:20:22,481 Speaker 1: I was just sitting there thinking, I know you've probably 466 00:20:22,561 --> 00:20:24,360 Speaker 1: had many of these conversations in your career, and I 467 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:26,721 Speaker 1: was wondering, is it's still hard or do you still 468 00:20:26,721 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 1: have moments where you think, I really don't want to 469 00:20:28,120 --> 00:20:29,481 Speaker 1: have this conversation, but I've got to. 470 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:32,001 Speaker 2: Do it every time, And if you don't, that's telling 471 00:20:32,001 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 2: you something about your own time in the role, because 472 00:20:34,761 --> 00:20:38,201 Speaker 2: I think if it becomes easy or something that you're 473 00:20:38,321 --> 00:20:41,161 Speaker 2: unphased by, and I don't think you're approaching it. That's 474 00:20:41,201 --> 00:20:43,360 Speaker 2: my personal view. It's a sample size the one, but 475 00:20:43,961 --> 00:20:46,161 Speaker 2: you know, I think it's really important to feel those 476 00:20:46,201 --> 00:20:48,561 Speaker 2: emotions because how do you emphasize with someone who maybe 477 00:20:48,561 --> 00:20:52,281 Speaker 2: you're taking their employment, their career, some of their self 478 00:20:52,360 --> 00:20:54,801 Speaker 2: esteem away by taking away that role. That's a big 479 00:20:54,801 --> 00:20:57,160 Speaker 2: burden and one you shouldn't take lightly. 480 00:20:57,321 --> 00:20:57,521 Speaker 3: Okay. 481 00:20:57,521 --> 00:20:59,001 Speaker 1: I didn't want to spend too much time on your 482 00:20:59,041 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 1: journey because I know there's been a number of interviews 483 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:02,441 Speaker 1: that talked about that, but I did want to sort 484 00:21:02,441 --> 00:21:04,440 Speaker 1: of touch on it a little bit. So you started 485 00:21:04,481 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 1: and retail Us young Man at fifteen and moved into 486 00:21:06,721 --> 00:21:09,680 Speaker 1: management traineeships that led you to your career now in 487 00:21:09,721 --> 00:21:12,880 Speaker 1: retail throughout that journey, particularly in your early parts of 488 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:15,160 Speaker 1: your career, I've no doubt that you faced challenges and 489 00:21:15,241 --> 00:21:17,361 Speaker 1: obstacles along the way. Were there times where you thought 490 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:19,761 Speaker 1: you might have chosen the wrong path or questioned what 491 00:21:19,801 --> 00:21:21,960 Speaker 1: you were doing? Will sort of had I guess all 492 00:21:22,001 --> 00:21:23,721 Speaker 1: we're sort of self doubt really came in. 493 00:21:23,921 --> 00:21:27,680 Speaker 2: Oh, look absolutely, Look my retail career started largely by accident, 494 00:21:27,681 --> 00:21:29,640 Speaker 2: and I went to university, and he studied to become 495 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:32,521 Speaker 2: a high school teacher, teaching history in English and pract 496 00:21:32,521 --> 00:21:34,640 Speaker 2: teaching showed me that it wasn't for me, And I 497 00:21:34,801 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 2: was really blessed to have a manager back when I 498 00:21:38,041 --> 00:21:41,961 Speaker 2: was a teenager working Thursday, nights and Saturdays who went 499 00:21:42,001 --> 00:21:44,561 Speaker 2: out of her way to help me into a management 500 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:47,680 Speaker 2: traineeship and also let me finish my university studies. So 501 00:21:48,201 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 2: I don't think many people wake up and go, I 502 00:21:50,521 --> 00:21:53,001 Speaker 2: want to be a retail manager when they're at school. 503 00:21:53,001 --> 00:21:55,680 Speaker 2: There's lots of other options and opportunities. But you know, 504 00:21:55,761 --> 00:21:57,801 Speaker 2: for those of us who do pursue this industry, it's 505 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:01,361 Speaker 2: amazing and create incredible opportunities that I wouldn't have had. 506 00:22:01,481 --> 00:22:03,920 Speaker 2: I don't think in any other industry space. But the 507 00:22:04,041 --> 00:22:06,961 Speaker 2: sort of challenges I faced early in my career were 508 00:22:07,360 --> 00:22:09,400 Speaker 2: you know, there were certainly an age ceiling back in 509 00:22:09,441 --> 00:22:11,801 Speaker 2: the early nineteen nineties. You know, there was a real 510 00:22:12,241 --> 00:22:14,761 Speaker 2: perspective from senior leaders you needed to be a certain 511 00:22:14,801 --> 00:22:17,201 Speaker 2: age to have a certain number of years experience, rather 512 00:22:17,241 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 2: than maybe think about things the way we do in 513 00:22:19,281 --> 00:22:22,561 Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, which is more competency based and cultural fit. 514 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:24,761 Speaker 2: So there was more of a formal hierarchy that you 515 00:22:24,801 --> 00:22:25,921 Speaker 2: needed to work your way through. 516 00:22:25,961 --> 00:22:26,801 Speaker 4: That is why I. 517 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 2: Left retail for a few years and went to banking. 518 00:22:28,761 --> 00:22:30,761 Speaker 2: I was just frustrated that I couldn't get ahead in 519 00:22:30,801 --> 00:22:33,761 Speaker 2: my career, and it was probably characteristic of a lot 520 00:22:33,761 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 2: of young guys and girls in their twenties, you know, 521 00:22:36,241 --> 00:22:38,920 Speaker 2: quite ambitious and wanting to get ahead and build my career. 522 00:22:38,961 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 2: And coming back to retail was really because that's where 523 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,640 Speaker 2: I'd found my vocation. I realized that the pace and 524 00:22:44,681 --> 00:22:48,400 Speaker 2: the team focus that retail had was an incredible draw, 525 00:22:48,561 --> 00:22:50,961 Speaker 2: and you know, coming to Bunnings. 526 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:52,201 Speaker 4: Was really a bit of a values call. 527 00:22:52,360 --> 00:22:54,640 Speaker 2: The company I was working for New Zealand based retail 528 00:22:54,721 --> 00:22:57,481 Speaker 2: companies selling its Australian Army in two thousand and four 529 00:22:57,561 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 2: two thousand and five and were selling into Pea, and 530 00:23:00,721 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 2: the culture of pe is really different to the culture 531 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:05,761 Speaker 2: of listed companies, and I didn't like some of the 532 00:23:05,761 --> 00:23:08,521 Speaker 2: things that they were wanting me to do around rationalization 533 00:23:08,681 --> 00:23:12,001 Speaker 2: and coloring job numbers. I'm a job's creation kind of person, 534 00:23:12,041 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 2: not a job's reduction kind of person. So I love 535 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,641 Speaker 2: to sort of see growth and people having the opportunities 536 00:23:16,681 --> 00:23:18,441 Speaker 2: that I've been afforded in the industry. 537 00:23:18,521 --> 00:23:19,481 Speaker 4: So I made the. 538 00:23:19,481 --> 00:23:22,041 Speaker 2: Choice to leave them, and there was an opening at Bunnings. 539 00:23:22,041 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 2: And I didn't know that much about Bunnings. You know, 540 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:25,920 Speaker 2: it's well known and well understood now, but in the 541 00:23:25,921 --> 00:23:28,241 Speaker 2: early two thousands in New South Wales it was still 542 00:23:28,441 --> 00:23:31,921 Speaker 2: establishing itself as a brand. It was digesting the BBC 543 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 2: hardware House acquisition that had been made in two thousand 544 00:23:34,521 --> 00:23:36,201 Speaker 2: and one, so the brand wasn't so well known. 545 00:23:36,281 --> 00:23:37,440 Speaker 4: So having been at. 546 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:39,561 Speaker 2: My previous three companies through about five years, I thought, 547 00:23:39,561 --> 00:23:41,360 Speaker 2: I'll probably be at Bunnings for four or five years 548 00:23:41,360 --> 00:23:44,521 Speaker 2: and then I'll see where Stereo go from there. And 549 00:23:44,561 --> 00:23:47,401 Speaker 2: I've been around four times that amount of time and 550 00:23:48,001 --> 00:23:49,721 Speaker 2: found something in a company that I fell in love 551 00:23:49,761 --> 00:23:51,680 Speaker 2: with and teammates that I wanted to work with for 552 00:23:51,761 --> 00:23:54,041 Speaker 2: really long periods of time. And so for me, when 553 00:23:54,041 --> 00:23:56,281 Speaker 2: I look back, you've got to believe in yourself. You've 554 00:23:56,321 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 2: got to chase your vocation, and you've got to know 555 00:23:59,041 --> 00:24:01,001 Speaker 2: the style of environment that's going to work for you 556 00:24:01,041 --> 00:24:02,601 Speaker 2: and the style of environment is not going to work 557 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:02,761 Speaker 2: for you. 558 00:24:02,801 --> 00:24:04,360 Speaker 4: And that's probably. 559 00:24:03,961 --> 00:24:06,401 Speaker 2: Informed some of my things looking on, you know, considering 560 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,480 Speaker 2: different opportunities that have presented themselves over the years. You know, 561 00:24:09,481 --> 00:24:11,241 Speaker 2: while I've been at Bunnies, you know what, I'm interested 562 00:24:11,241 --> 00:24:13,681 Speaker 2: in going to work for company X, and you come 563 00:24:13,721 --> 00:24:16,801 Speaker 2: back to those filters and go, actually, what problem I 564 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,400 Speaker 2: trying to solve? Because I'm really happy and satisfied and 565 00:24:19,441 --> 00:24:20,921 Speaker 2: feel amating value where I am. 566 00:24:21,241 --> 00:24:22,201 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so true. 567 00:24:22,241 --> 00:24:25,360 Speaker 1: When I talk about resilience with leadership, I've kind of 568 00:24:25,441 --> 00:24:27,880 Speaker 1: pivoted to a concept that sort of says that the 569 00:24:27,921 --> 00:24:28,801 Speaker 1: obstacles are the. 570 00:24:28,761 --> 00:24:31,120 Speaker 3: Path right, that you're not going to not face challenges. 571 00:24:31,360 --> 00:24:33,201 Speaker 1: Are you kind of one of these I just pushed 572 00:24:33,241 --> 00:24:35,120 Speaker 1: through the tough times like they come up and I 573 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 1: just sort of surge ahead. Or is it accepting that 574 00:24:37,761 --> 00:24:40,281 Speaker 1: tough times are coming up and then setting yourself up 575 00:24:40,561 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 1: to ride that tough time. 576 00:24:41,921 --> 00:24:43,920 Speaker 2: Look, there's definitely a bit of the Winston Churchill when 577 00:24:43,921 --> 00:24:45,921 Speaker 2: you're going through hell, keep going, you know, I think 578 00:24:45,921 --> 00:24:49,761 Speaker 2: for any leader, but that's often for the unanticipated things 579 00:24:49,801 --> 00:24:51,521 Speaker 2: that come up. You know, who'd have thought in March 580 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:53,721 Speaker 2: twenty twenty, we'd have been sitting around a board table 581 00:24:53,761 --> 00:24:55,360 Speaker 2: wondering whether we're going to have to shut our company 582 00:24:55,360 --> 00:24:57,441 Speaker 2: down because we didn't know what the government was going 583 00:24:57,441 --> 00:24:59,801 Speaker 2: to do. We didn't know what this disease was going 584 00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 2: to be and what it was going to do to 585 00:25:01,001 --> 00:25:04,160 Speaker 2: the community. So there are those sort of really unexpected moments, 586 00:25:04,201 --> 00:25:05,801 Speaker 2: But there are other things where you kind of go, 587 00:25:05,921 --> 00:25:08,920 Speaker 2: I've seen display out this is going to be really challenging, 588 00:25:08,921 --> 00:25:12,001 Speaker 2: and we're in a very challenging economic period at the moment. 589 00:25:12,041 --> 00:25:14,160 Speaker 2: You know, we've been through these cycles before. We know 590 00:25:14,241 --> 00:25:16,721 Speaker 2: that it's going to be harder than at other times. 591 00:25:16,761 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 2: We know we're going to have to be very disciplined 592 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 2: and very rigorous. But I think you've also got to 593 00:25:21,120 --> 00:25:23,441 Speaker 2: have a positive mindset because if you're going to lead 594 00:25:23,481 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 2: a team through these periods it's through gritted teeth, then 595 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:29,201 Speaker 2: that behavior is going to rub off. I'm a big 596 00:25:29,201 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 2: believer in behavior brief behaviors. 597 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:31,200 Speaker 4: So I think you've got to. 598 00:25:31,201 --> 00:25:33,881 Speaker 2: Bring a even in tough times, bring a positive mindset 599 00:25:33,921 --> 00:25:35,601 Speaker 2: of we've been here before, we know what we. 600 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 4: Need to do. 601 00:25:36,681 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 2: Let's sit to the game plan, and let's celebrate every 602 00:25:39,120 --> 00:25:41,281 Speaker 2: little success we have because that's going to give us 603 00:25:41,281 --> 00:25:43,440 Speaker 2: a sense of achieving the things that we need to 604 00:25:43,481 --> 00:25:44,521 Speaker 2: achieve to move forward. 605 00:25:45,481 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 3: I mean COVID was a great example. 606 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:48,081 Speaker 1: I mean, I know you have to see the chef 607 00:25:48,120 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 1: and people would have looked to you for that kind 608 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,401 Speaker 1: of confidence, But you're still a human being. So I'm 609 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:54,440 Speaker 1: imagining you had a moment where you were like, I 610 00:25:54,481 --> 00:25:56,640 Speaker 1: don't actually have the answers here. I mean, how do 611 00:25:56,721 --> 00:25:59,001 Speaker 1: you personally cope and those kind of moments where you're like, 612 00:25:59,041 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 1: I don't have the answer a. 613 00:25:59,921 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 2: Couple of different ways. I think one is the support 614 00:26:02,041 --> 00:26:04,041 Speaker 2: network you have around you. I think this is where 615 00:26:04,521 --> 00:26:07,400 Speaker 2: right back at the start of our conversation today, we 616 00:26:07,521 --> 00:26:10,001 Speaker 2: talked about the fact that what is it that can 617 00:26:10,041 --> 00:26:13,160 Speaker 2: sometimes be a challenge for senior executives, you know, in 618 00:26:13,201 --> 00:26:16,161 Speaker 2: terms of vulnerability or authenticity. Some of that is who 619 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,201 Speaker 2: you surround yourself with, right, And I think you need 620 00:26:18,281 --> 00:26:21,960 Speaker 2: friends and family who actually don't care. My kids are 621 00:26:22,041 --> 00:26:23,681 Speaker 2: I hope are proud of what I do, but they 622 00:26:23,681 --> 00:26:26,160 Speaker 2: certainly don't care about the fact that I run a 623 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,441 Speaker 2: big company on dat right, and I'm there to solve 624 00:26:28,481 --> 00:26:31,360 Speaker 2: DA issues, not company issues, and give them my time 625 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 2: and attention. And you know, you've got great mates, you know, 626 00:26:34,441 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 2: who have nothing to do with business world. They're in 627 00:26:37,001 --> 00:26:39,761 Speaker 2: all sorts of different spaces and they keep you very grounded. 628 00:26:39,801 --> 00:26:42,041 Speaker 2: So I think that's really important and challenging times, you've 629 00:26:42,041 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 2: got to support base. I think being transparent that you 630 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,240 Speaker 2: don't necessarily have the answers is important, but you're in 631 00:26:49,281 --> 00:26:51,680 Speaker 2: search of the answers is equally important because if you 632 00:26:51,961 --> 00:26:53,281 Speaker 2: sort of go, oh, I don't know, I don't know 633 00:26:53,281 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 2: what we're going to do, and then you sort of 634 00:26:55,481 --> 00:26:57,521 Speaker 2: leave it there. But if you sort of come at 635 00:26:57,561 --> 00:26:59,680 Speaker 2: it from this is a really unique problem or challenge 636 00:26:59,681 --> 00:27:01,400 Speaker 2: and something we haven't faced before. I'm really need to 637 00:27:01,441 --> 00:27:05,761 Speaker 2: hear different perspectives and ideas and just start throw those around. 638 00:27:06,281 --> 00:27:09,001 Speaker 2: Your own innate experience will start to kick back in 639 00:27:09,041 --> 00:27:10,761 Speaker 2: and you'll go, oh, that's going to make sense, and 640 00:27:10,801 --> 00:27:12,521 Speaker 2: that's going to make sense if we bring those two 641 00:27:12,561 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 2: things together, and sometimes our jobs as CEOs isn't to 642 00:27:16,521 --> 00:27:18,521 Speaker 2: make the decision. It's just to enable other people to 643 00:27:18,561 --> 00:27:20,001 Speaker 2: get on and do things. So you'll see, you know, 644 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 2: someone will come up a great idea and you know 645 00:27:21,921 --> 00:27:24,281 Speaker 2: that makes absolute sense to me, Just get on and 646 00:27:24,321 --> 00:27:26,801 Speaker 2: do it. All you've then done is empower someone else. 647 00:27:26,921 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 2: So it might appear like you've made the decision, but 648 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,161 Speaker 2: actually the reality, you're just getting out of the way 649 00:27:31,321 --> 00:27:33,201 Speaker 2: so that the people who are better equipped to deal 650 00:27:33,241 --> 00:27:34,400 Speaker 2: with it could get on and deal with it. 651 00:27:34,441 --> 00:27:35,640 Speaker 3: I don't have the statement is true at all. 652 00:27:35,681 --> 00:27:37,761 Speaker 1: I haven't researched any of this to know, but a 653 00:27:37,801 --> 00:27:39,360 Speaker 1: lot of people I speak to your seers I speak 654 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,600 Speaker 1: to who do have a very similar humble approach to 655 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: you towards leadership, have themselves overcome adversity often when they 656 00:27:45,281 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 1: were growing up to kind of live with the playing field. 657 00:27:47,481 --> 00:27:48,681 Speaker 3: Is that true of you as well? 658 00:27:49,120 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 4: Yeah? Absolutely. 659 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:51,880 Speaker 2: I think I grew up in a household where my 660 00:27:51,961 --> 00:27:53,680 Speaker 2: dad was very sick. He wasn't able to work, so 661 00:27:53,761 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 2: he was on an invalid pension, so you can imagine 662 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 2: that money was pretty scarce, and the joy of the 663 00:27:58,241 --> 00:27:59,961 Speaker 2: seventies was there was no social media. 664 00:28:00,041 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 4: There was no. 665 00:28:01,201 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 2: It was very hard to know what other people were 666 00:28:02,761 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 2: up to because there was no easy way to compare. 667 00:28:04,761 --> 00:28:07,721 Speaker 2: You really compared yourself to the kids in your street 668 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,041 Speaker 2: or the kids in your classroom. And my mum did 669 00:28:10,041 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 2: an amazing job of making sure that we were always 670 00:28:12,721 --> 00:28:14,641 Speaker 2: dressed as well as we could be, even if it 671 00:28:14,681 --> 00:28:17,721 Speaker 2: was secondhand or third hand clothing, and they worked really 672 00:28:17,761 --> 00:28:19,321 Speaker 2: hard to make sure my brother and I had a 673 00:28:19,360 --> 00:28:21,241 Speaker 2: good education, but there wasn't a lot. 674 00:28:21,360 --> 00:28:22,521 Speaker 4: And equally, in. 675 00:28:22,521 --> 00:28:25,321 Speaker 2: The early years of high school, I was bullied quite badly, 676 00:28:25,521 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 2: and bullying in the nineteen eighties was all very physical 677 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 2: because you had no social media bullying, and the bullying today, 678 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:33,521 Speaker 2: I think is much worse because it's harder to see, 679 00:28:33,521 --> 00:28:35,921 Speaker 2: and I think when it does manifest itself physically, it's 680 00:28:36,001 --> 00:28:38,681 Speaker 2: usually an incredibly tragic and dramatic ways. 681 00:28:38,801 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 4: You know. 682 00:28:39,041 --> 00:28:41,681 Speaker 2: The two things for me, you know, probably have helped 683 00:28:41,681 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 2: me be very strong around sort of how people are treated. 684 00:28:44,841 --> 00:28:46,481 Speaker 2: I think when we say treat other people the way 685 00:28:46,681 --> 00:28:48,921 Speaker 2: we want to be treated, it falls short of the mark. 686 00:28:49,001 --> 00:28:50,361 Speaker 2: You know, if we treat other people the way we 687 00:28:50,401 --> 00:28:52,401 Speaker 2: want to see our loved ones treated, the bar raises 688 00:28:52,481 --> 00:28:54,961 Speaker 2: pretty quickly because I think in any given day, we 689 00:28:55,041 --> 00:28:57,201 Speaker 2: all put up with stuff. Whether it's the coffee wasn't 690 00:28:57,241 --> 00:28:59,241 Speaker 2: great at the coffee shop, or the train was running 691 00:28:59,321 --> 00:29:02,921 Speaker 2: late or the queue was long. We all absorb things 692 00:29:02,961 --> 00:29:06,601 Speaker 2: that upset us from time time. I think subconsciously that 693 00:29:06,641 --> 00:29:09,361 Speaker 2: can sometimes create the excuse that we cannot be at 694 00:29:09,361 --> 00:29:11,121 Speaker 2: our best around other people. Because I've had to put 695 00:29:11,201 --> 00:29:12,881 Speaker 2: up with some rubbish today, someone else is going to 696 00:29:12,961 --> 00:29:14,881 Speaker 2: put up with some If I have put up with rubbish, 697 00:29:14,881 --> 00:29:17,041 Speaker 2: so be it. If I see someone not being nice 698 00:29:17,081 --> 00:29:19,041 Speaker 2: to my wife or my children, then that brings out 699 00:29:19,041 --> 00:29:21,481 Speaker 2: a whole different side of your personality because you move 700 00:29:21,521 --> 00:29:23,921 Speaker 2: into a different mode. And I think it's the same 701 00:29:23,961 --> 00:29:26,281 Speaker 2: in the workplace. If every team member gets created the 702 00:29:26,321 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 2: way what are my kids to get treated when they 703 00:29:28,201 --> 00:29:30,001 Speaker 2: work at Bunnies, then maybe they're going to be a 704 00:29:30,081 --> 00:29:31,881 Speaker 2: better organization than one. 705 00:29:31,721 --> 00:29:32,321 Speaker 4: Down the road. 706 00:29:32,721 --> 00:29:35,401 Speaker 2: I'm the sort of doing it tough, you know, growing up. 707 00:29:35,481 --> 00:29:38,361 Speaker 2: You know, I'm very very mindful of the importance of work. 708 00:29:38,441 --> 00:29:40,481 Speaker 2: You know the importance of creating jobs for people. Because 709 00:29:40,481 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 2: if you can work, you can contribute to a household, 710 00:29:44,041 --> 00:29:46,641 Speaker 2: you can pay rent, you can pay a mortgage, but 711 00:29:46,681 --> 00:29:48,281 Speaker 2: you need to have that job in the first place, 712 00:29:48,281 --> 00:29:51,561 Speaker 2: and I think not just a transactional job where you're 713 00:29:51,681 --> 00:29:53,200 Speaker 2: here for five minutes, but a job where you can 714 00:29:53,201 --> 00:29:54,801 Speaker 2: put down to riots and grow should you choose to 715 00:29:54,961 --> 00:29:55,961 Speaker 2: and build a long. 716 00:29:55,841 --> 00:29:56,921 Speaker 4: Term successful career. 717 00:29:56,961 --> 00:30:00,041 Speaker 2: I think helps create financial stability and plays a really 718 00:30:00,121 --> 00:30:02,641 Speaker 2: positive role in the economy and in the lives of 719 00:30:02,801 --> 00:30:03,561 Speaker 2: people as well. 720 00:30:03,801 --> 00:30:06,001 Speaker 1: Thank you for sharing about what happened and being bully, 721 00:30:06,001 --> 00:30:07,841 Speaker 1: because I suppose for a lot of people who have 722 00:30:07,961 --> 00:30:10,401 Speaker 1: had that experience, it could go one way or the other. Right, 723 00:30:10,521 --> 00:30:13,281 Speaker 1: you could either be angry at the world or can 724 00:30:13,321 --> 00:30:16,121 Speaker 1: channel it towards better So what's an opportunity you said 725 00:30:16,241 --> 00:30:18,641 Speaker 1: no to in the past that you would say yes 726 00:30:18,681 --> 00:30:20,121 Speaker 1: to today or you wish you'd said yes to. 727 00:30:20,401 --> 00:30:21,601 Speaker 4: Wow, that's a great question. 728 00:30:22,081 --> 00:30:25,361 Speaker 2: I was often investment in tea tree farms back when 729 00:30:25,401 --> 00:30:27,321 Speaker 2: I worked in the bank, and I couldn't afford it. 730 00:30:27,361 --> 00:30:28,881 Speaker 2: To be truth was in there the money to do 731 00:30:28,921 --> 00:30:30,281 Speaker 2: it looked like a great idea at the time, and 732 00:30:30,321 --> 00:30:32,960 Speaker 2: then the tax office came after everyone that had invested 733 00:30:32,961 --> 00:30:34,361 Speaker 2: in it, so I felt like I dodged. 734 00:30:34,081 --> 00:30:34,921 Speaker 4: A board on that one. 735 00:30:35,401 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 2: I probably don't sort of live with a lot of 736 00:30:37,481 --> 00:30:39,401 Speaker 2: regret of things that I wouldn't have done. I might 737 00:30:39,441 --> 00:30:42,641 Speaker 2: have made some decisions a little bit earlier, and I 738 00:30:42,681 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 2: certainly would have probably taken the opportunity to travel more 739 00:30:46,001 --> 00:30:47,721 Speaker 2: when I was younger, had I been able to. I 740 00:30:47,801 --> 00:30:49,641 Speaker 2: watched a lot of friends do that. You know, I 741 00:30:49,681 --> 00:30:51,721 Speaker 2: love that movie Sliding Doors, though, right I think I'm 742 00:30:51,721 --> 00:30:54,161 Speaker 2: a tribal every and if every decision we make has 743 00:30:54,161 --> 00:30:55,841 Speaker 2: a knock on effect. So you know, for all of 744 00:30:55,841 --> 00:30:58,321 Speaker 2: the things that maybe I didn't do, maybe I wouldn't 745 00:30:58,321 --> 00:31:00,561 Speaker 2: be doing this today, maybe we do something completely different 746 00:31:00,681 --> 00:31:03,041 Speaker 2: just as happy and settled, or maybe I wouldn't be. 747 00:31:03,121 --> 00:31:05,921 Speaker 2: But I sort of try to make the most of 748 00:31:06,001 --> 00:31:08,440 Speaker 2: every day and every opportunity and not live with too 749 00:31:08,521 --> 00:31:10,681 Speaker 2: much second guessing about the ones that got away. 750 00:31:10,961 --> 00:31:13,801 Speaker 1: What's something you're aware about yourself now that you just 751 00:31:13,801 --> 00:31:15,401 Speaker 1: simply weren't into the beginning of your career. 752 00:31:15,841 --> 00:31:19,841 Speaker 2: Definitely why I've always wanted to Where that ambition to 753 00:31:19,881 --> 00:31:22,561 Speaker 2: do bigger, broader roles came from. When I go back 754 00:31:22,601 --> 00:31:25,361 Speaker 2: to being a training manager, I remember going to Target 755 00:31:25,401 --> 00:31:27,200 Speaker 2: seat office. It was in I was based in Sydney 756 00:31:27,201 --> 00:31:28,921 Speaker 2: and their head office at the time was in Geelong 757 00:31:29,041 --> 00:31:32,121 Speaker 2: and Victoria and I remember sitting in the managing director's 758 00:31:32,161 --> 00:31:34,041 Speaker 2: office with a whole lot of other training managers, going 759 00:31:34,081 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 2: I want this job one day. 760 00:31:35,081 --> 00:31:35,921 Speaker 4: This looks really cool. 761 00:31:35,961 --> 00:31:38,241 Speaker 2: He's got a nice car and a big office, and 762 00:31:38,521 --> 00:31:40,161 Speaker 2: you know, I catch the train and the trend to 763 00:31:40,241 --> 00:31:42,081 Speaker 2: work now and we have no officers at all. So 764 00:31:42,201 --> 00:31:44,921 Speaker 2: things have changed a lot in forty years. But you know, 765 00:31:45,081 --> 00:31:48,681 Speaker 2: I think understanding my purpose and the why behind the 766 00:31:48,721 --> 00:31:51,921 Speaker 2: things I do is something that took a really long 767 00:31:51,961 --> 00:31:54,280 Speaker 2: time to get to and certainly took a lot of 768 00:31:54,881 --> 00:31:58,041 Speaker 2: working with really skillful coaches and mentors to help me 769 00:31:58,081 --> 00:31:58,921 Speaker 2: sort of unpack that. 770 00:31:59,361 --> 00:32:01,440 Speaker 3: They're nice. So do you still have your own coach? 771 00:32:02,201 --> 00:32:04,561 Speaker 2: I have a few different ones and more probably more 772 00:32:04,561 --> 00:32:06,921 Speaker 2: mentors now and a few years ago. There are a 773 00:32:06,921 --> 00:32:08,681 Speaker 2: few different things going on outside of work for me. 774 00:32:08,881 --> 00:32:10,761 Speaker 2: Someone may be observation that you know, people come into 775 00:32:10,761 --> 00:32:13,401 Speaker 2: your life for a reason or a season, and you know, 776 00:32:13,401 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 2: I think when it comes to mentors, there's usually a reason, 777 00:32:16,601 --> 00:32:18,921 Speaker 2: you know why you sort of seek out different skill 778 00:32:18,961 --> 00:32:21,681 Speaker 2: sets and perspectives, and you know, the people that give 779 00:32:21,721 --> 00:32:24,561 Speaker 2: me that guidance and counsel are just incredibly generous with 780 00:32:24,601 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 2: their time and learn from them and hopefully you know, 781 00:32:27,481 --> 00:32:29,081 Speaker 2: we'll have the opportunity one day to sort of pay 782 00:32:29,081 --> 00:32:29,761 Speaker 2: that back as well. 783 00:32:29,961 --> 00:32:32,761 Speaker 3: Love it, Love it. And lastly, what is the bravest 784 00:32:32,761 --> 00:32:33,761 Speaker 3: thing you've ever done. 785 00:32:34,001 --> 00:32:36,841 Speaker 2: It's probably been when I've made the decision to walk away, 786 00:32:36,841 --> 00:32:39,520 Speaker 2: whether it's been a relationship or a role, you know, 787 00:32:39,601 --> 00:32:43,480 Speaker 2: because you know, ultimately that's saying that, you know, ships 788 00:32:43,481 --> 00:32:44,921 Speaker 2: weren't built to be in a harbor? 789 00:32:44,961 --> 00:32:45,921 Speaker 4: Is it really true? One? Right? 790 00:32:46,001 --> 00:32:48,401 Speaker 2: And I think sometimes we can find ourselves in a 791 00:32:48,401 --> 00:32:51,761 Speaker 2: comfort zone, or something's become a habit and relationships become 792 00:32:51,801 --> 00:32:53,841 Speaker 2: a habit rather than a relationship, or you're in a 793 00:32:53,921 --> 00:32:55,081 Speaker 2: job that is a job, it's not. 794 00:32:55,081 --> 00:32:57,881 Speaker 4: A vokay, so it's not a career. I think when. 795 00:32:57,681 --> 00:32:59,121 Speaker 2: You have that moment where you go, I'm going to 796 00:32:59,121 --> 00:33:01,361 Speaker 2: back myself to make a break here and make a 797 00:33:01,481 --> 00:33:04,441 Speaker 2: move and do something different. And when I've looked back 798 00:33:04,481 --> 00:33:07,041 Speaker 2: at those that's probably the moments where you kind of go, 799 00:33:07,281 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 2: I should have probably done that a couple of years earlier. 800 00:33:09,881 --> 00:33:12,361 Speaker 2: I should have been more confident. But again it's slight 801 00:33:12,441 --> 00:33:14,281 Speaker 2: indoor moments, right, And you know, if I had not 802 00:33:14,401 --> 00:33:17,001 Speaker 2: made the jump. When I made the jump, then making 803 00:33:17,001 --> 00:33:20,001 Speaker 2: a jump from the warehouse group and lots of shares 804 00:33:20,001 --> 00:33:22,041 Speaker 2: on offer from a private equity company. It all sounded 805 00:33:22,081 --> 00:33:24,001 Speaker 2: great to a lesser rolling from a national role to 806 00:33:24,041 --> 00:33:26,161 Speaker 2: a state role. It felt like it began at the time. 807 00:33:26,201 --> 00:33:27,641 Speaker 2: But you know, when I look back at it now, 808 00:33:27,681 --> 00:33:30,001 Speaker 2: it was the most obvious choice to make. But it's 809 00:33:30,041 --> 00:33:32,521 Speaker 2: easy to say that twenty years later when you're in 810 00:33:32,521 --> 00:33:34,081 Speaker 2: a really different leadership space. 811 00:33:34,801 --> 00:33:35,641 Speaker 3: That's a great answer. 812 00:33:35,801 --> 00:33:38,441 Speaker 1: A lot of people who I'll talk to will often 813 00:33:38,441 --> 00:33:40,641 Speaker 1: point the finger at say, my lead is not treating 814 00:33:40,641 --> 00:33:42,321 Speaker 1: me well, or the organization's not treating me well. 815 00:33:42,481 --> 00:33:44,721 Speaker 3: But having that bravery to make that call for yourself, right. 816 00:33:44,641 --> 00:33:46,480 Speaker 1: If it's not sitting with your in a line of 817 00:33:46,481 --> 00:33:48,721 Speaker 1: your values, or you're not feeling joy and actually happy 818 00:33:48,761 --> 00:33:50,281 Speaker 1: doing it every day or at least a lot of 819 00:33:50,281 --> 00:33:53,081 Speaker 1: the time, making that brave decision so fantastic fun. 820 00:33:53,281 --> 00:33:54,281 Speaker 4: Everyone's life of books. 821 00:33:54,281 --> 00:33:56,200 Speaker 2: Some books are really lots and lots of pages, and 822 00:33:56,241 --> 00:33:59,001 Speaker 2: some are really short lives, right, And you don't want 823 00:33:59,041 --> 00:34:00,961 Speaker 2: to get to the end of it in the form 824 00:34:00,961 --> 00:34:02,921 Speaker 2: where in any way, regardless of your beliefs of what 825 00:34:02,961 --> 00:34:04,841 Speaker 2: it looks like after you pass away, but you want 826 00:34:04,841 --> 00:34:06,001 Speaker 2: to get the end of it and go. I wish 827 00:34:06,041 --> 00:34:08,521 Speaker 2: I've done all these other things. If it's there to 828 00:34:08,521 --> 00:34:10,681 Speaker 2: be leaved right, and you know, if you can put 829 00:34:10,721 --> 00:34:13,161 Speaker 2: as many lifetimes into the one you've got, then you're 830 00:34:13,161 --> 00:34:14,001 Speaker 2: doing a pretty good job. 831 00:34:14,041 --> 00:34:16,401 Speaker 1: I think amazing we're at time, but that has been 832 00:34:16,481 --> 00:34:18,401 Speaker 1: a fantastic time chating with you. 833 00:34:18,801 --> 00:34:20,521 Speaker 3: I hope you never leave Bunnings. I hope that you're 834 00:34:20,561 --> 00:34:21,921 Speaker 3: still there when my kids grow up and they can 835 00:34:21,961 --> 00:34:24,361 Speaker 3: start working there. Because I love your attitude, I love 836 00:34:24,401 --> 00:34:25,801 Speaker 3: all of us. So thank you so much for taking 837 00:34:25,801 --> 00:34:26,041 Speaker 3: the time. 838 00:34:26,121 --> 00:34:26,681 Speaker 4: What pleasure. 839 00:34:27,001 --> 00:34:27,641 Speaker 3: Great chatting with you. 840 00:34:27,721 --> 00:34:27,881 Speaker 1: Mike. 841 00:34:28,201 --> 00:34:30,041 Speaker 4: Likewise, Thanks Emma,