WEBVTT - Sharri | 16 January 0:00:01.600 --> 0:00:05.600 Live on Sky News. This is Sharry. 0:00:07.680 --> 0:00:09.160 Good Evening. Welcome to the show. 0:00:09.280 --> 0:00:13.440 Well, massive breaking news as we speak. The hostage deal 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:17.040 is now in disarray. I've got the latest news for 0:00:17.079 --> 0:00:20.160 you right now. I've just had confirmation from Israeli Prime 0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:23.720 Minister Benjaminette and Yahoo's office that the deal is currently 0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:27.440 not on the table because her Musk is pulling last 0:00:27.480 --> 0:00:30.400 minute stunts. I'll bring you that full detail and full 0:00:30.440 --> 0:00:33.760 analysis tonight with expert commentary. I've also got on the 0:00:33.760 --> 0:00:37.800 show family members of current hostages. Throughout the program, will 0:00:37.800 --> 0:00:40.239 bring you the news as it happens and the ins 0:00:40.280 --> 0:00:42.800 and outs of this breaking news in just a moment. 0:00:43.360 --> 0:00:46.760 Also tonight, Deputy Liberal Leader Susan Lay has launched an 0:00:46.760 --> 0:00:52.279 internal investigation into why she failed to declare accommodation meals 0:00:52.440 --> 0:00:57.840 and transport funded by the Palestinian Authority. My exclusive story 0:00:58.160 --> 0:01:01.560 coming up, but first let's get into this breaking news. 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:06.559 Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahoo has released a statement saying 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:09.600 that Hermas is backing out of elements. 0:01:09.120 --> 0:01:10.119 Of the hostage deal. 0:01:10.720 --> 0:01:15.560 This deal was celebrated globally today and it's now in disarray. 0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:19.959 It faces a major stumbling point. The deal was scheduled 0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:22.640 to be put to the Israeli Cabinet right now as 0:01:22.680 --> 0:01:25.520 we speak eleven am local time in Israel. 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:27.399 But now the cabinet. 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:30.080 Will not meet to vote on the deal until Hermas 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:35.600 agrees to all existing elements. The Israeli Prime Minister's Office 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:39.840 has released a statement tonight saying Hamas is backing out 0:01:39.880 --> 0:01:44.200 of the explicit understandings agreed upon with the mediators and 0:01:44.440 --> 0:01:49.040 Israel in a last minute blackmail attempt. Israel will not 0:01:49.120 --> 0:01:52.440 set a date for a cabinet and government meeting until 0:01:52.480 --> 0:01:56.680 the Mediators announce that Hermas has approved all the details 0:01:57.040 --> 0:02:00.760 of the agreement. I understand, and I've got this first 0:02:00.800 --> 0:02:04.720 hand from the Prime Minister's Office that also playing into 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:09.120 this decision was that there was rocket fire from Hamas 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:13.040 in Gaza, both last night in Israel and this morning. 0:02:13.480 --> 0:02:16.880 This is not in the spirit of a ceasefire deal 0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:20.880 and a hostage release agreement, so that rocket fire has 0:02:20.919 --> 0:02:24.680 also played into this move. Now, this shouldn't be a surprise. 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:26.680 Hamas is a terrorist group. 0:02:27.080 --> 0:02:28.000 It's a bad. 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:32.000 Faith negotiator, a bad faith actor. Israel has had this 0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:35.320 very deal on the table since May twenty twenty four 0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:39.480 and Hamas only came to the negotiating table at the 0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:44.880 eleventh hour because Donald Trump said he'd unleash Hell. Now, 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:48.280 we had been expecting to hear from Bedroom nettin Yahoo 0:02:48.760 --> 0:02:49.799 after Cabinet met. 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:51.720 That would have been in the next couple of hours. 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:54.880 But this is a huge delay now and it would 0:02:54.880 --> 0:02:58.359 be a massive disappointment for the family members of hostages 0:02:58.639 --> 0:03:02.560 who've now been held in Gaza for four hundred and 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:06.840 sixty seven days. Now, while there is a pause in 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:11.040 the deal, that could still go ahead if Hermas agrees 0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:16.639 to well stop firing rockets and agrees to the existing 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:19.400 points on the table. If Hermas does that, if this 0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:22.080 deal is back on the table. This is how it 0:03:22.120 --> 0:03:26.480 will play out. There'll be three hostages, expected to be women, 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:30.519 who'll be released this Sunday. Then seven days later there'll 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:34.480 be another four hostages released, so that's seven days in 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:39.000 between hostages. After that, three hostages will be released every 0:03:39.240 --> 0:03:42.960 seven days, and then after nearly six weeks there'll be 0:03:43.000 --> 0:03:47.240 fourteen hostages freed. So in total, in this first stage 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:50.360 of the deal, that would be thirty three hostages released, 0:03:51.000 --> 0:03:52.600 and we know sadly. 0:03:52.680 --> 0:03:54.440 That not all are alive. 0:03:55.240 --> 0:03:58.720 For some families, there would be beautiful reunions with their 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:05.600 loved ones, but for others, they'd be welcoming home dead bodies. Now, 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:08.560 this is one of the sticking points currently of the negotiation. 0:04:08.680 --> 0:04:11.000 This is why the hostage deal is up in the air, 0:04:11.640 --> 0:04:16.560 because Israel was meant to have veto power on all 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:20.920 of the hardened terrorists that would have been released from 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:24.760 their own prisons. So in Israeli prisons there are Palestinian 0:04:24.800 --> 0:04:29.240 criminals and terrorists for the thirty three humanitarian hostages that 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:32.800 Hamas was releasing, and these are women and children. 0:04:33.360 --> 0:04:35.479 Israel was going to have to release or we'll have 0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:36.440 to release. 0:04:36.960 --> 0:04:41.800 One thousand Palestinian criminals from Israeli prisons, and that includes 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:46.119 at least two hundred and fifty terrorists who are said 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:46.599 to have. 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:48.039 Had blood on their hands. 0:04:48.880 --> 0:04:53.320 Now, Israel has insisted in these negotiations on having the 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:57.360 veto power over which terrorists are released. 0:04:57.440 --> 0:05:00.320 Which of the worst terrorists I released. 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:03.080 Her mask at this late hour, is now insisting on 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:08.760 trying to dictate who'll be released from Israeli prisons. Even then, 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:12.640 Israel has said they're not going to free them into Gaza, 0:05:12.800 --> 0:05:15.200 that they would want the hardened criminals who are serving 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:18.039 life sentences if they are released to be sent to 0:05:18.080 --> 0:05:22.440 a third country sent overseas. Now, just this evening on 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:26.200 Sky on Chris Kenny's program, Liberal MP Julian Lisa said 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:31.320 that he wants a guarantee from Anthony Alberizi that Australia 0:05:31.760 --> 0:05:36.080 won't be taking in these hardened Palestinian criminals. 0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:36.599 Have a look. 0:05:37.839 --> 0:05:39.400 So I think the Prime Minister has to make it 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:42.800 very clear because those freed Palestinian prisoners, many of whom 0:05:42.800 --> 0:05:44.800 have committed violent crimes, are due to be sent to 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:47.080 a third country. And I want the Prime Minister to 0:05:47.120 --> 0:05:50.120 guarantee to all Australians that he will not bring any 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:53.920 Palestinian prisoner who spent time in Israeli jail to Australia 0:05:54.000 --> 0:05:56.600 because that will do nothing to make this country safer 0:05:56.640 --> 0:05:57.599 for all Australians. 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:01.840 It's a very important point and we do as Australians, 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:05.520 need that guarantee from the Prime Minister. Now, this deal, 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:08.280 if it does go ahead, and we expect ultimately it 0:06:08.320 --> 0:06:11.880 probably will given Trump has threatened to unleash Hell. This 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:14.240 is a deal with the devil. It's far from what 0:06:14.279 --> 0:06:18.920 you'd call a good deal. It's deeply unjust because there's 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:24.400 no equivalence between innocent hostages and terrorists in prison. I mean, 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:27.799 on the one hand, you have babies, children, mothers, sons, 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:32.240 the elderly, all of them innocent Israelis who've been kidnapped. 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:36.479 They're not prisoners of war. They should never have been abducted. 0:06:36.880 --> 0:06:40.640 There's no justice here. But this is a deal that 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:44.080 Israel felt it had to do to bring its people home, 0:06:44.720 --> 0:06:48.440 even though it's far from perfect. There will be happy reunions, 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:51.240 there will be moments of pure joy in the weeks ahead, 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:56.440 but there will also be incredible distress, no question, when 0:06:56.480 --> 0:06:59.880 we learn that some hostages who we prayed were a 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:05.400 live were in fact killed by Hermas. And I can 0:07:05.480 --> 0:07:10.040 say I'm definitely not looking forward to the sight of innocent, 0:07:10.160 --> 0:07:14.520 beautiful people coming home in body bags. But that is 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:17.760 what we're facing now and it will be a difficult 0:07:17.880 --> 0:07:19.480 time now. 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:20.840 One of those who. 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:22.880 Were set to be the first to be released and 0:07:22.960 --> 0:07:26.480 this first stage of the deal is Keith Siegel. He's 0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:29.160 the beloved husband of Aviva Seagull, who I met when 0:07:29.200 --> 0:07:32.880 I was in Israel. He's sixty five and he spent 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:37.600 fifteen months now in cruel captivity. Aviva was also held 0:07:37.600 --> 0:07:41.080 hostage for fifty four days, and she spoke about the 0:07:41.160 --> 0:07:42.840 cruel way Keith was treated. 0:07:44.560 --> 0:07:46.920 And we were just taken from her house in such 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:49.960 a brutal way. On the way they pushed Keith and 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:54.560 Brokie's rips and shot us. I remember seeing the bullets 0:07:54.640 --> 0:07:58.120 coming very close to my foot. I'm lucky, but they 0:07:58.160 --> 0:08:02.120 shot Keith on his hand. We arrived in Gaza while 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:05.560 keep with bleeding and he was in such pain. The 0:08:05.640 --> 0:08:08.800 conditions were the worst conditions that you can think about. 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:12.040 I just thought that I'm going to die, that kid's 0:08:12.040 --> 0:08:15.160 going to die, and just think about it. When in 0:08:15.200 --> 0:08:17.880 such a brutal way tortured my husband that I've been 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:21.760 married to forty five years. I wanted to scream and cry, 0:08:22.080 --> 0:08:24.920 and I wasn't allowed to cry or scream. I just 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:26.280 had to keep myself quiet. 0:08:28.040 --> 0:08:31.440 A Viva and her family they are warriors. A Viva 0:08:31.480 --> 0:08:34.880 has not stopped campaigning for the release of her husband 0:08:35.000 --> 0:08:37.319 and of all of the hostages, and we pray that 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:40.120 Keith will be alive when he's. 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:42.679 Returned to her. We just don't know now. 0:08:42.679 --> 0:08:45.480 It was incoming President Donald Trump who first broke the 0:08:45.520 --> 0:08:48.200 news that a deal had been done, and he posted 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:50.240 on social media saying, we have a deal for the 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:51.560 hostages in the Middle East. 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:54.439 They will be released shortly. Thank you. 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:58.560 But Joe Biden of course claimed that it was to 0:08:58.600 --> 0:09:01.520 his credit and he said this would be a permanent 0:09:01.920 --> 0:09:02.560 end to the war. 0:09:03.960 --> 0:09:07.800 Phase two, which is a permanent end of the war. 0:09:07.880 --> 0:09:10.079 Let me say it again, a permanent end of the war. 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:14.080 There are a number of details that negotiate to move 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:18.120 from Phase one to Phase two, but the plan says 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:22.800 if negotiations take longer than six weeks, the ceasefire will 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:26.840 continue as long as the negotiations continue. 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:30.840 Now that's wrong, as I'll explain in a moment. But 0:09:31.240 --> 0:09:33.559 Albanizi also celebrated this cease fire. 0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:34.240 Have a look. 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:39.559 I certainly hope and have consistently called for a lowering 0:09:39.760 --> 0:09:45.360 of the temperature here. Australians, I believe, wanted to see 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:50.079 the hostage is released. They want to see an end 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:53.960 to conflict. They also don't want conflict brought here. This 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:59.680 is not the end. Importantly, this is a really important 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:01.400 break through and stepped forward. 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:06.240 Peter Darton, in much stronger comments, spoke about how much 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:09.599 is Raetius have been through over the past fifteen months. 0:10:10.440 --> 0:10:12.800 We should never forget the carnage that took place on 0:10:12.880 --> 0:10:19.000 October seven, when Hamas, a listed terrorist organization, went in slaughtered, raped, 0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:24.559 pillaged the Kibbutzer's the music festival, where young people were 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:28.360 struck down in their prime. Some of these people will 0:10:28.360 --> 0:10:32.240 be released shortly. They've been in captivity and in the 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:37.400 hands of these barbarians for about fourteen months. It is 0:10:37.520 --> 0:10:41.400 horrific and we should never forget that. And the fact 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:43.640 that they're still held hostage and haven't been released by 0:10:43.679 --> 0:10:45.520 now is an absolute disgrace. 0:10:47.080 --> 0:10:49.800 So as you just saw there from Joe Biden, there's 0:10:49.920 --> 0:10:53.000 naive politicians who are celebrating like it's the end of 0:10:53.040 --> 0:10:56.240 the war, but it's only a temporary cease fight if 0:10:56.440 --> 0:10:59.800 we even get one. Trey Yinks from Fox News reported 0:10:59.800 --> 0:11:03.240 today that Hamas is still thriving in Gaza, their green 0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:05.199 flag still waving on the. 0:11:05.200 --> 0:11:09.480 Streets inside Gaza. We've seen scenes from the city of 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:12.160 their Albala in the center part of the Gaza Strip, 0:11:12.400 --> 0:11:17.120 many Palestinians celebrating there, and video of Hamas gunmen parading 0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:19.880 through the streets. The reality on the ground is that 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:23.480 Hamas remains in power, and Biden's own Secretary of State 0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:26.640 just yesterday said that they have recruited just as many 0:11:26.640 --> 0:11:28.600 fighters as they have lost. 0:11:29.760 --> 0:11:32.840 And as he says, there is also unverified footage on 0:11:32.920 --> 0:11:37.440 social media that purports to show Palestinians and Hamas celebrating. 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:41.240 They shouldn't be celebrating because having Hamas in power isn't 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:45.120 good for the Palestinians and it's certainly not good for Israel. 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:49.880 So despite Biden and even Albanesi's declarations, this hostage deal 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:53.560 and temporary cease fire doesn't mean it's the end of 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:58.280 the war, because Donald Trump has repeatedly vowed to help 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:02.560 Israel defeat Hamas and terrorism, and he means it. He 0:12:02.640 --> 0:12:06.240 will empower Israel rather than work against it and try 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:09.760 to obstruct it like Joe Biden did with Netan Yahoo. 0:12:10.840 --> 0:12:15.400 Now there is some really sad news. Last night, I 0:12:15.559 --> 0:12:18.920 was very hopeful that the Bibas family might be brought home, 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:23.840 but high level sources told me today that actually Israel 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:28.559 isn't hopeful that they'll be returned alive. I thought it's thought, 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:31.640 and this is what the belief is in Israel, that 0:12:31.720 --> 0:12:36.320 the father may be alive, but not baby Kafir, brother Ariel, 0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:41.400 or mother Shiri. This beautiful family and these beautiful little boys. 0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:45.800 They had everything to live or they had their whole 0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:51.080 lives ahead of them, and they're now presumed by Israel 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:55.880 to be dead. This isn't confirmed. It's not confirmed. This 0:12:56.000 --> 0:12:59.960 is just what in Israeli intelligence believes. I hope they're wrong. 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:02.600 With all my hard I hope they're wrong, But I'm 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:07.079 reporting what high level Israeli sources, trusted sources, have told 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:10.079 me today. Now, like I said, this is going to 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:14.360 be a really, really tough and emotional six weeks. It's 0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:18.040 going to be an emotional rollercoaster. It's a tortured process 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:22.640 where we may wait anxiously for an entire week for 0:13:22.760 --> 0:13:26.079 three hostages to be returned home to find that only 0:13:26.240 --> 0:13:30.680 bodies are returned home. But among the pain, there will 0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:34.800 be joyous reunions and incredible celebrations, and we at least 0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:39.520 look forward to the pure elation at families being reunited 0:13:40.160 --> 0:13:44.720 after terrorism cruelly tore them apart along four hundred and 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:52.640 sixty seven days ago. Now I've got full coverage of 0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:55.360 the hostage deal, of what's breaking in Israel on my 0:13:55.440 --> 0:13:58.800 show tonight I have expert analysis coming up in just 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:01.920 a moment, but first I'm going to bring you this 0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:07.040 exclusive report tonight. Deputy Liberal leader Susan Lay has launched 0:14:07.040 --> 0:14:11.679 an internal investigation into why she failed to declare accommodation, 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:17.080 meals and transport funded by the Palestinian Authority. I put 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:20.560 questions to her today about the expenses from her trip 0:14:20.720 --> 0:14:23.840 to the West Bank in twenty eleven. You can see 0:14:23.880 --> 0:14:27.560 her on that trip in this photograph. Susan Lay was 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:29.840 a strong critic of Israel at the time, and she 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:33.680 was given a tour by the Palestinian officials. Now, other 0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:37.640 politicians who went with her on that trip, labor and 0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:41.320 Peas like Maria van Vkino and Jill Hall, and even 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:45.480 Liberal MP Melissa Park, they did make declarations in their 0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:51.200 pecuniary interest register about gifted meals, transport and accommodation from 0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:55.120 the Palestinian Authority. Susan Lay was traveling on the same trip, 0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:59.200 but made no declarations in her register of interests. Her 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:02.280 office has told me this evening that they were now 0:15:02.360 --> 0:15:05.720 examining her declarations and I quote, our office will look 0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:08.520 into the question you've raised regarding a matter of declaration. 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:11.760 Fourteen years ago. If correct, this would have been an 0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:15.440 administrative oversight. Susan has never hid from the fact that 0:15:15.480 --> 0:15:17.880 she was on the trip, indeed, she has spoken about 0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:19.760 it publicly on a number of occasions. 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:22.200 Now, this failure to. 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:26.160 Declare gifts like accommodation meals and transpot from the Palestinian 0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:30.960 authority is embarrassing for Susan Lay, and the revelation comes 0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:34.920 as concerns emerge about her ability to lead the policy 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:38.160 argument on Israel if she were to take on the 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:42.200 Foreign Affairs portfolio. Now, Peter Darton has a big decision 0:15:42.240 --> 0:15:45.520 to make about who will be his shadow Foreign Affairs Minister. 0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:51.200 These are the top contenders for the job, Dantian, James Patterson, 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:57.080 Julian Lisa, Dave Sharma and Susan Lay. Now the only 0:15:57.200 --> 0:16:01.120 reason Susan Lay is even being concer cited for this 0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:05.720 portfolio is because she's the deputy Liberal leader and the 0:16:05.760 --> 0:16:10.480 Liberal Constitution states that the deputy can choose her own portfolio. 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:14.680 And the main reason Susan Lay's deputy is that after 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:19.320 the last selection, when Scott Morrison was wrongly hounded over 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:22.800 the Britney Higgins affair, there was the perception that the 0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:27.440 Coalition had a women problem, so Peter Dutton appointed a 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:29.840 woman as his deputy. He may not have made that 0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:34.080 choice otherwise. The deputy leader needs to come from the 0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:36.920 Lower House and there were limited options. The other women 0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:41.000 were either new MPs or lower profile MPs. So Susan 0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:43.880 Lay was appointed deputy and now, in the wake of 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:47.920 Simon Birmingham's resignation, she has her sits on the Foreign 0:16:47.920 --> 0:16:52.240 Affairs job. But as you know, the biggest political issue 0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:55.720 in foreign affairs right now is the Middle East and 0:16:55.920 --> 0:16:59.920 Israel's fight against terror on behalf of all Western civilization. 0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:06.240 It's a fight Trump supports unequivocally. And here's the thing. 0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:11.560 Susan Lay was a pro Palestinian advocate for some fifteen years, 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:15.879 at least before she visited Israel for less than a 0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:20.080 week in late twenty twenty two and changed her perspective. 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:23.600 That visit was after she became the Deputy Liberal Leader 0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:27.800 in the wake of the May twenty twenty two election. Now, 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:30.840 Susan Lay told me today that as Deputy leader, I 0:17:30.880 --> 0:17:34.360 have consistently held the government to account for their comprehensive 0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:38.280 and categorical failure to support Israel and our wonderful Jewish 0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:42.080 diaspora community on an almost daily basis since October seven. 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:45.040 I always strive to be a voice of moral clarity 0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:48.320 and I never shy away from standing up for Australia. 0:17:48.880 --> 0:17:52.600 Unlike this Labor government, it will always be Australia's national 0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:57.840 interest that dictates the coalition's foreign policy thinking, not electoral arithmetic. 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:00.560 Now I have to say, right up. 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:04.640 I applaud Susan Lay for being open to visiting Israel, 0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:10.000 for changing her views. If only more people have this attitude. 0:18:10.440 --> 0:18:13.920 And she has been incredibly strong in her commentary since 0:18:14.000 --> 0:18:18.080 October seven and before, and I've broadcast on this program 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:23.440 her many questions to Albanizi in Parliament where she hounded 0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:30.040 him over his hostility towards Israel. But the inescapable reality 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:34.439 is Susan Lay's commentary over at least fifteen years was 0:18:34.520 --> 0:18:38.800 hostile towards Israel. It's at times been as bad as 0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:44.399 anything Albanisi or Penny Wong said. In twenty seventeen, just 0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:47.800 four and a half years ago, Susan Lay spoke about 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:51.920 her long standing affinity with the Palestinians and made shocking 0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:53.760 accusations against Israel. 0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:57.639 I Rise today to remind the Parliament that in June 0:18:57.640 --> 0:19:01.040 it was fifty years since the Arab Israel Six Day War, 0:19:02.440 --> 0:19:05.000 the conflict that empowered the State of Israel but began 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:08.720 fifty years of occupation of Palestinian land. Is seen from 0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:11.080 very different points of view. As someone with a long 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:14.840 term affinity for the Palestinians, including co chairing this Parliament's 0:19:14.840 --> 0:19:17.480 Friendship Group over many years, I wish to highlight the 0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:21.240 Palestinian perspective between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea. 0:19:21.640 --> 0:19:24.119 Half the residents all more live as either second class 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:27.560 citizens or non citizens because they are Palestinian. In the 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:30.800 West Bank, a third of the Palestinian population is under fourteen. 0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:35.200 Less than five percent would remember a time without Israeli occupation. 0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:40.440 So you just heard there Susan lay accuse Israel of occupation. 0:19:40.720 --> 0:19:44.359 She's also described the highly necessary security fence as a 0:19:44.400 --> 0:19:48.280 separation wall, and she's criticized Israel for refusing to allow 0:19:48.320 --> 0:19:52.320 the return of expelled refugees. In other speeches in Parliament, 0:19:52.359 --> 0:19:56.359 she accused Israel of confiscating Palestinian land and said that 0:19:56.440 --> 0:20:00.080 Gaza was on the brink of starvation. In twan one 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:03.960 and eleven, she expressed support for Palestinian's statehood, which at 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:06.919 the time was even to the left of the Labor 0:20:07.000 --> 0:20:08.080 Party have a look. 0:20:09.240 --> 0:20:12.160 I support the Palestinian bid for statehood in part because 0:20:12.160 --> 0:20:14.639 it will give heart to the ordinary people of the 0:20:14.680 --> 0:20:15.800 West Bank and Gaza. 0:20:17.480 --> 0:20:20.040 In a two thousand and eight speech, Susan Lay said, 0:20:20.040 --> 0:20:23.560 and I quote, Israel has many friends in this country 0:20:23.720 --> 0:20:28.840 and in this parliament. The Palestinians, by comparison, have few theirs. 0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:31.560 Is not a popular cause, but it is one I 0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:34.879 support in part out of knowledge that the victors in 0:20:34.960 --> 0:20:39.600 World War II, including Australia, wrote a homeland check to 0:20:39.600 --> 0:20:42.440 cover the sins of the Holocaust and centuries of anti 0:20:42.440 --> 0:20:45.760 Semitism in Europe, but it was the Palestinians who had 0:20:45.800 --> 0:20:49.639 to cash it. I find that particularly shocking because it 0:20:49.680 --> 0:20:52.680 feeds into the narrative that the Jews don't belong in Israel, 0:20:52.760 --> 0:20:55.040 when in fact, Jews are indigenous to the land of 0:20:55.080 --> 0:20:58.679 Israel and lived there for thousands of years before Islam 0:20:58.800 --> 0:21:03.560 was even invented. Now in as recently as twenty eighteen, 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:07.840 Susan Lay met with the Australian Palestinian Advocacy Network, whose 0:21:07.920 --> 0:21:09.760 current leader Nasa Mashni. 0:21:09.480 --> 0:21:12.480 Has described Jews as filth. 0:21:13.240 --> 0:21:16.399 So again, Susan lay She did see first hand the 0:21:16.440 --> 0:21:20.280 situation in Israel. She has been extremely sympathetic to Israeli 0:21:20.359 --> 0:21:22.720 since then, and she has taken the fight up to 0:21:22.760 --> 0:21:26.960 Penny Wong. But the other contenders for the Foreign Affairs portfolio, 0:21:27.560 --> 0:21:31.800 especially Julian Lisa, James Patterson and Dave Sharma, all have 0:21:31.880 --> 0:21:36.160 an in depth and highly intellectual understanding of the complexities 0:21:36.440 --> 0:21:39.640 and history of the Middle East. They didn't change long 0:21:39.640 --> 0:21:42.919 held views to support Israel a year or so before 0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:43.919 October seven. 0:21:44.359 --> 0:21:47.119 They have always This is such a key point. 0:21:47.480 --> 0:21:51.800 They have always been aligned with Australia's official foreign policy 0:21:51.920 --> 0:21:57.359 stance and our national interest and it's just obvious that 0:21:57.440 --> 0:22:00.760 any one of them would be a more natural, qualified 0:22:00.840 --> 0:22:04.960 choice for the Foreign Affairs portfolio. If Susan lay Force 0:22:05.080 --> 0:22:08.040 is the issue, there would be accusations that the Liberals 0:22:08.040 --> 0:22:11.240 had succumb to Dei, that her appointment was owing to 0:22:11.280 --> 0:22:14.960 her gender rather than merit, and merit should win out 0:22:15.000 --> 0:22:19.280 on all occasions, particularly with such an important role as 0:22:19.359 --> 0:22:29.119 Foreign affairs that's so crucial to our future and national security. Okay, 0:22:29.200 --> 0:22:32.840 let's return to the breaking news now. Confirmation from Israeli 0:22:32.840 --> 0:22:36.320 Prime Minister Benjaminettaya, who's office that the hostage deal is 0:22:36.400 --> 0:22:38.480 on pause. It is not going to go to cabinet 0:22:38.480 --> 0:22:41.280 now in Israel, as it was scheduled to at eleven 0:22:41.320 --> 0:22:44.520 am local time. Let's bring in two experts on this issue. 0:22:44.560 --> 0:22:47.560 I'm joined now by the CEO of the International Legal 0:22:47.640 --> 0:22:53.080 Forum and senior fellow at the Misgarv Institute for National Security, Arsenostrowsky, 0:22:53.200 --> 0:22:57.399 irregular on the show, and the former Press office director 0:22:57.480 --> 0:22:59.679 of the Prime Minister's office, Daniel Seaman. 0:23:00.000 --> 0:23:03.280 Welcome to you both. Arson. Let's start with you. 0:23:03.520 --> 0:23:06.840 What are you hearing and are you surprised that this 0:23:06.920 --> 0:23:09.040 hostage deal is now under threat? 0:23:10.600 --> 0:23:12.800 No, I don't think anyone should be surprised. You know, 0:23:12.880 --> 0:23:16.919 cheetahs don't change their spots in order. Terror groups like 0:23:17.000 --> 0:23:20.160 Hamas this is a last minute of tempt essentially by 0:23:20.200 --> 0:23:24.320 them to extort and blackmail Israel into making even further concessions, 0:23:24.320 --> 0:23:29.240 specifically here into having a say on the terraces that 0:23:29.280 --> 0:23:32.040 are supposed to be released. This is something that is 0:23:32.080 --> 0:23:35.479 outside the scope of the agreement, something outside what the 0:23:35.520 --> 0:23:38.200 parties had agreed to along with the mediators. So essentially 0:23:38.240 --> 0:23:40.640 there's a Hamas trund to blackmail Israel in the last 0:23:40.640 --> 0:23:43.320 second off the negotiations and just before the signing of 0:23:43.320 --> 0:23:43.920 any agreement. 0:23:45.680 --> 0:23:48.280 Daniel, we are hearing that one of the sticking I'm 0:23:48.320 --> 0:23:50.760 hearing that one of the sticking points in the deal 0:23:50.800 --> 0:23:53.119 were two sticking points. One is that there was still 0:23:54.000 --> 0:23:57.080 rocket fire from Hamas last night in Israel and this morning. 0:23:57.080 --> 0:23:58.159 You would be well aware of that. 0:23:58.480 --> 0:24:02.040 But also that Hermas is now demanding that they decide 0:24:02.359 --> 0:24:06.560 which Palestinian terrorists are released from Israeli prisons. Why is 0:24:06.600 --> 0:24:09.640 it important that Israel has veto over this decision. 0:24:12.200 --> 0:24:15.600 Well, that was part of the arrangement, and obviously it's 0:24:15.720 --> 0:24:23.600 necessary because Israel can determine who among these Hamas former 0:24:23.680 --> 0:24:26.159 terrorists who were apprehended by Israel. 0:24:26.800 --> 0:24:28.879 It's quite clear that they're not going to go and 0:24:28.960 --> 0:24:33.679 retire now and live their lives in harmony and in 0:24:33.680 --> 0:24:36.040 search of peace. So we want to be very careful 0:24:36.080 --> 0:24:38.480 who we allow out there because of the influence they'll 0:24:38.480 --> 0:24:42.080