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Speaker 1: Good a team. Doctor Hannes back on the show, and

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Speaker 1: there's a plus one in the family. We'll talk about

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Speaker 1: that in a moment. But Hi, how are you.

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Speaker 2: Hello, Coragt, how are you?

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Speaker 3: It's so good to see you. Hello, everybody, I'm back, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It actually is. Really I've missed you. I forgot well.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I love your energy, and I love like

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Speaker 1: when you do this job right, three hundred and sixty

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Speaker 1: five times a year, give or take. Not all of

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Speaker 1: them are with a guest, but most of them are

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Speaker 1: with a guest. Some of them are solos with just

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Speaker 1: Fatty Harps in his flannel shirt. But it's always nice

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Speaker 1: to talk to somebody who's got very good energy. And

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Speaker 1: I'm going to be honest, doesn't make me work hard.

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Speaker 3: So well, that's good to hear, especially if you're doing

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Speaker 3: seven a day. My god, we were talking offer just

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Speaker 3: a moment a week a week, a week, seven a week,

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Speaker 3: seven a day would be outrageous. I mean, you're already

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Speaker 3: pretty outrageous doing your PhD, doing your speaking gigs, and

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Speaker 3: doing all your podcasts.

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Speaker 2: It's pretty amazing.

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Speaker 3: I'm thinking, Craig, maybe you're going to need to pivot

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Speaker 3: into some kind of radio gig. At some point I

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Speaker 3: see that in your future. I'm slightly psychic. I think

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Speaker 3: I see into your future, I see a radio gig.

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Speaker 1: Well, what, you can't be too psychic. Because I worked

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Speaker 1: in radio for twenty years, I've already done it.

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Speaker 2: I also have a foot in mouth problem.

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Speaker 1: I like looking on that. He's well, yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: here's the thing about radio. The radio is great. Radio

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Speaker 1: was great training for me and it was a privilege,

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Speaker 1: and you know, you're talking to lots of people, although

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Speaker 1: we talked to lots of people in this show as well.

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Speaker 1: Working in talkback radio, which I did, is pretty good.

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Speaker 1: So on the sports station here in Melbourne, I was

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Speaker 1: like their resident exercise science slight like gy, a little

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Speaker 1: bit kind of inspiration, information education, high performancey guy. But

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Speaker 1: what's good about talkback radio is it's are going to

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Speaker 1: listeners all the time. But the bad of radio is

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Speaker 1: that everything's very it's soundbites. It's like you talk to

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Speaker 1: someone twenty thirty seconds, maybe one minute on the phone,

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Speaker 1: and even when you have a guest, it's like we'd

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Speaker 1: have you and we'd have you know, doctor Hannah coming

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Speaker 1: out of the four o'clock news, and you come on

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Speaker 1: after the you know, the news and the weather and

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Speaker 1: the station idea and the time check and this and that,

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Speaker 1: and you come on at four oh seven and then

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Speaker 1: we're shuffling you off at four or eleven.

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Speaker 2: Right, yeah, the producer goes.

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Speaker 1: The producer goes, thanks, Hannah, that was great. Take care. Right,

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Speaker 1: So you've just had fucking four minutes of not really

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Speaker 1: a conversation.

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Speaker 2: Happened. It's happened many times.

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Speaker 1: Where they're firing like bullshitty, generic, cheesy, superficial questions and

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Speaker 1: you're like, I can't answer that in sixty seconds, that's

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Speaker 1: actually a conversation. So, and the beauty of this is,

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Speaker 1: you know, as you said, before we started, what do

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Speaker 1: we talking about? I said, I don't know. Then we

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Speaker 1: had a solid twenty seconds of prep. But well that's

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Speaker 1: the beauty. That's the beauty of podcasts. Then the beauty

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Speaker 1: of having your own is if we talk for twenty

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Speaker 1: minutes or two hours, it doesn't matter, there's no rules.

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Speaker 1: If we swear or don't swear, it doesn't matter. Whatever

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Speaker 1: topic we talk about within reason is absolutely fine. And

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Speaker 1: wherever we go. And you know, so I love the

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Speaker 1: freedom and the flexibility of podcasting and I think the

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Speaker 1: not for everyone, but for the majority of people, the

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Speaker 1: appeal is I feel like I'm listening to just a

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Speaker 1: conversation versus a very stage managed, four minute bullshitty thing

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Speaker 1: on the radio.

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Speaker 3: You like the free element of it, so you can

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Speaker 3: actually have a real conversation. And I think that's probably

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Speaker 3: why so many people like listening to you. It's just

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Speaker 3: that easy to listen to drive to work, you know,

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Speaker 3: in the car you can learn something every episode.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a sound bite, but.

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Speaker 1: And also you know, I'm I'm learning as I'm going,

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Speaker 1: I'm getting things wrong, I'm asking good questions and dumb questions.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's been I've I've changed, I've unlearned things

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Speaker 1: over my six years on this show where I used

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Speaker 1: to think A and now I think B, you know,

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Speaker 1: and you know I don't I've For me, it's been

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Speaker 1: as much a I guess, a space where I can

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Speaker 1: connect with people and ask good questions and provide something

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Speaker 1: for the world, as much as it has been for

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Speaker 1: me a classroom of learning and unlearning, you know. So

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Speaker 1: to me it's been a gift, which sounds cheesy, but

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Speaker 1: it's true.

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Speaker 2: That's beautiful.

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Speaker 1: Craig thank you. I don't want you to cry. All right,

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Speaker 1: So you've had a kid.

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Speaker 2: I had a baby.

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Speaker 3: I had a baby, my little girl, baby Remy, had

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Speaker 3: about six months ago. So I'm going through the throes

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Speaker 3: of learning parenthood and all that jazz.

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Speaker 2: It's it's been a trip.

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Speaker 1: Wow. What I mean, I want to open the door

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Speaker 1: too wide. But what was the what's the biggest surprised

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Speaker 1: being a mum or being a parent in general? Where

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Speaker 1: you've gone up. I never thought of that. This is

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Speaker 1: what It's.

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Speaker 3: Gonna make me sound so naive. This is gonna sound terrible.

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Speaker 3: Please don't judge me. Having a child is nothing like

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Speaker 3: having a pet.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. Do I sound terrible saying that. Let

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Speaker 2: me put that into context.

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Speaker 3: I've only had pets before, and I've had like you know,

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Speaker 3: like cats and dogs and stuff, and they're very like

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Speaker 3: sort of stagnant, like they stay the same. So you like,

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Speaker 3: I've got the cat. As everybody knows. I'm sure if

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Speaker 3: you follow my Instagram, you know I have a cat

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Speaker 3: named Jeff. And Jeff is Jeff, right, Like, Jeff stays

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Speaker 3: the same, Jeff does the same things. Jeff is the

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Speaker 3: same level of intelligence and has been for the last

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Speaker 3: three years or four years.

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Speaker 2: That I've had him. Remy, on the other hand, my

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Speaker 2: daughter and this I know. I'm a psychologist, I'm a neuropsychologist.

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Speaker 2: I know this.

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Speaker 1: I know this, And I point out everyone that the

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Speaker 1: woman's saying these things has a PhD in europsychology. So

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Speaker 1: when you feel stupid, everyone don't feel stupid at all,

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Speaker 1: because most of you have got doctor Hannah covered.

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Speaker 2: This is a safe space.

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Speaker 3: Crete ha ha I no, but I like for the

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Speaker 3: first time, like I'm really learning what it means to

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Speaker 3: be with a little human that changes and evolves every day.

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Speaker 3: And I see her IQ changing and evolving every single day.

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Speaker 3: And the baby that wakes up today is a different

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Speaker 3: baby than yesterday because today's she's learnt to say my

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Speaker 3: mo ma, mama, and yesterday she couldn't do that. And

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Speaker 3: I'm I'm really finally appreciated. I think there's lines in life.

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Speaker 3: Lines in life are things that until you have experienced it,

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Speaker 3: you do not understand what it feels like, Like the

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Speaker 3: line of the first time you you know, kiss a girl,

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Speaker 3: or the first time.

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Speaker 2: That you know.

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Speaker 3: Try some kind of drug, or the first time that

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Speaker 3: you have sex, or the first time that you something

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Speaker 3: very significant, get married, or you know, so many lines

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Speaker 3: of first that are huge, like the first time you

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Speaker 3: fell pregnant, the first time you have a baby, the

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Speaker 3: first time you parent a child. There's so many lines

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Speaker 3: in life that until you have crossed the line, it's

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Speaker 3: really hard to understand truly what it feels like.

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Speaker 2: And I feel really grateful that I have crossed a line.

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Speaker 3: And I know what it feels like to be pregnant, now,

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Speaker 3: what it feels like to give birth, what it feels

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Speaker 3: like to.

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Speaker 2: Have a baby. And I'm still crossing lines now.

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Speaker 3: I know what it feels like to have a six

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Speaker 3: month old baby that's starting to talk and roll over.

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Speaker 2: And eat food.

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Speaker 3: So all of those experiences for me, you know, it's

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Speaker 3: I am a psychologist, I'm a neuropsychologist.

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Speaker 2: But I still I think that's why.

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Speaker 3: I'm a neuropsychologist because I love this like I just no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna eat it for breakfast, like I love I

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Speaker 3: love learning and seeing these I'm getting excited talking about it.

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Speaker 3: Hopefully that doesn't make me sound yeah crazy. My baby

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Speaker 3: is nothing like my cat in short.

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Speaker 1: Wow, that could be the title. My baby is nothing

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Speaker 1: like my cat, my baby, My baby Remy is nothing like,

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Speaker 1: nothing like Jeff the Cat. But but I think, look,

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Speaker 1: what you're pointing out is the chasm between theoretical understanding

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Speaker 1: or learning and experiential learning. It's like, oh, like I

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Speaker 1: kind of yeah, well I realized, but I didn't. I didn't.

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Speaker 1: I had to. I had to do this. I had

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Speaker 1: to be in the middle of this. I needed to.

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Speaker 1: I needed to have this experience to get this understanding.

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Speaker 1: You know. So there's a difference between kind of acquired

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Speaker 1: knowledge through you read something, heard something, saw something, which

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Speaker 1: is kind of it's important, but it's really it's like

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Speaker 1: with me when I talk about in a slightly different

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Speaker 1: but still experience, I talk about obesity, childhood obesity, you know,

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Speaker 1: as an exercise physiologist and all these things, and someone

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Speaker 1: who's you know, doing their PhD and psyche and understands

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Speaker 1: the insection of physiology, psychology, sociology and emotion around all

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Speaker 1: of that bullshit around childhood obese. But I was fat,

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Speaker 1: and you know, so that's where my real understanding and

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Speaker 1: insight comes from, is being called jumbo and being picked

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Speaker 1: on and being the fat eskid at school and being

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Speaker 1: embarrassed to take your top off and like that's where

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Speaker 1: my you know, And yeah, of course we all kind

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Speaker 1: of get the theory. But when you know, when you

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Speaker 1: go through something and I actually think, and this is

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Speaker 1: you might hate this, and this is my supervisors will

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Speaker 1: hate this. I think academy is overrated and experiential learning

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Speaker 1: is underrated. I don't, which is not to say I

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Speaker 1: don't think academic learning is valuable or important. Of course

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Speaker 1: it is. But I think people who like some of

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Speaker 1: the best teachers and coaches and leaders that I've ever

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Speaker 1: met and inspirers and shapers and influencers of people in

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Speaker 1: a good way, left school at year nine. But their

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Speaker 1: innate ability to communicate, connect, understand, resolve conflict, build apport,

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Speaker 1: build connection, read the room, read people, which is just

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Speaker 1: experience and skill that they've developed. Like you can go

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Speaker 1: and do four phdds and have none of that. And

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Speaker 1: you and I both know academics who are socially emotionally inept.

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Speaker 2: No comment you you absolutely no be braver.

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Speaker 3: You know it, listen, know it, not to pivot hard.

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Speaker 3: But I'm just gonna I'm just gonna comment that I

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Speaker 3: think if that ability, what makes blows my mind is

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Speaker 3: like if you can just harness that ability to vicariously

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Speaker 3: learn through the experiences of other people when they tell you,

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Speaker 3: you know, this happens, and that happens, and you.

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Speaker 2: Know, learn learn from my experience.

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Speaker 3: Like, if only we could really tap into that in

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Speaker 3: a real visceral way where we truly take on that lesson,

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Speaker 3: I feel like that's such a key to unlocking you know, equality,

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Speaker 3: life is learning how to vicariously learn truly and deeply.

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Speaker 2: When we hear about the experiences of other people.

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Speaker 3: It's it's it's how do we take that to the

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Speaker 3: next level, which is it's such an amazing thing. And

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Speaker 3: I'm still I'm still figuring it out, Like I don't

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Speaker 3: I'm not the perfect vicarious learner by any means, but

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Speaker 3: it always blows my mind when I get an nice,

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Speaker 3: real life example that hits home.

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Speaker 1: Well, think about pursuant to that, your honor, Think about

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Speaker 1: how many people, like how much stuff do we hear about,

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Speaker 1: you know, eat well, sleep well, move your body, you know,

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Speaker 1: try to manage your anxiety and stress, like surround yourself

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Speaker 1: with people who build you up, not pull you. You know,

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Speaker 1: all of these important messages and ideas around you know,

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Speaker 1: self regulation, self management, you know, in terms of our health.

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Speaker 1: But how many go yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, and

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Speaker 1: eat shit and do shit and smoke shit and drink

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Speaker 1: shit and then have a heart attack. Then all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden they're like evangelizing everybody in their life about

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Speaker 1: how to be healthy. Yeah right, because even though they

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Speaker 1: theoretically understood, they weren't scared enough. Like I honestly think

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Speaker 1: for many people it comes out like real change comes

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Speaker 1: down to emotional leverage, like how fucking much do you

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Speaker 1: want it? Because some people go, yeah, I'd like to

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Speaker 1: be I'd like to be lean and fit and healthy

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Speaker 1: and blah blah blah, but also I love beer and

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Speaker 1: pies and cake, so fuck off.

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Speaker 2: M m hmmmmmm. I totally get it, and for another

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Speaker 2: day to discuss.

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Speaker 3: But like with my just a tiny bit of self disclosure, Craig,

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Speaker 3: because I did say this was off limits before we

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Speaker 3: started the podcast, but here I go. When I gave birth,

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Speaker 3: I had an injury from that which I'm doing physio

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Speaker 3: to recover now. And you know, we only realized five

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Speaker 3: months posts that i'd like torn some ligaments and it

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Speaker 3: was like pretty bad injury and I have not I

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Speaker 3: can tell you I have been doing over an hour

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Speaker 3: of physio exercise every night diligently for a month and

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Speaker 3: a half. Like I've never had such dedication to exercising

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Speaker 3: until this has like truly deeply affected me on a

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Speaker 3: really personal level and my ability later in life be

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Speaker 3: able to do exercise and engage my body in the

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Speaker 3: way I want to. And now all of a sudden,

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Speaker 3: I have no problems getting that hour and a half

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Speaker 3: of exercise every nighty and no matter what. And before that,

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Speaker 3: oh my gosh, doing even thirty minutes of exercise, I

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Speaker 3: wasn't doing it.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, it's that. It's that I love that word,

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Speaker 2: emotional leverage.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's true. That's what it is. That's because,

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Speaker 1: like you, you were quite more pain with not doing

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Speaker 1: it than doing it. Yeah, on some level, consciously or not.

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Speaker 1: There's a story in your head that says I absolutely

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Speaker 1: need to do this, therefore I am absolutely doing it.

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Speaker 1: And that's that's versus with many people, myself included at times. Right, Oh,

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Speaker 1: I want to do it like I want to do it,

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Speaker 1: is not I am doing it. Yeah, And it's that's

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Speaker 1: that whole kind of reactive versus proactive, you know, Like

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Speaker 1: I always say, the time to make really big decisions

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Speaker 1: about your health and your lifestyle and your habits and

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Speaker 1: behaviors is when you're healthy or before you get to

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Speaker 1: that critical point, because I think, I mean this is

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Speaker 1: very much generalizing, but having been in this space and

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Speaker 1: working with people forever, I think most people can kind

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Speaker 1: of get away with some bullshit until they're about forty.

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Speaker 3: Not everybody, but that's my I was about, So what

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Speaker 3: is it when does the rubber hit the road?

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Speaker 1: Like?

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Speaker 3: How do we apply this information and knowledge? About forty

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Speaker 3: is the cut off?

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Speaker 1: Look, I mean, that's that's terrible science. Everyone, that's that's

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Speaker 1: bro science. That's Craig thinking out loud. So do with

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Speaker 1: that what you will. But my experience is that people

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Speaker 1: can do some pretty stupid shit to their body untill

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Speaker 1: they're about forty. You know, smoke lots, drink lots of

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Speaker 1: smoking is terrible, by the way, but drink you know,

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Speaker 1: booze like unhealthy sleep, unhealthy, unhealthy habits. But once you like,

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Speaker 1: your body really starts to age significantly after forty in

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Speaker 1: general terms, if you're not looking after it. And I think,

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Speaker 1: but once you get up around fifty, if you're still

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Speaker 1: doing horrible shit to your body consistently. It's not that

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Speaker 1: you can't change, but you might be doing some irreparable damage.

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Speaker 1: So you know, But look, I mean, I know people

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Speaker 1: who have turned their life around in their sixties and

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Speaker 1: got lean and fit and healthy and strong and functional

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Speaker 1: and change their habits and behaviors. And as you know,

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Speaker 1: like you think about even the rehab you're doing, which

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Speaker 1: is primarily a physiological process to create a physiological outcome,

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Speaker 1: it's still a huge psychological and emotional component because you

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Speaker 1: have to get your mind in the right place to

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Speaker 1: do that thing.

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Speaker 3: Every day and turning those muscles on and really connecting

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Speaker 3: to it and thinking about it. And the emotional load

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Speaker 3: of being totally exhausted. My daughter's teething. We don't get

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Speaker 3: a lot of sleep at the moment.

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Speaker 2: You just want to. It's so tempting to just lay

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Speaker 2: on the couch.

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Speaker 3: I'm so so tired, But nothing beats the feeling of

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Speaker 3: having ticked the box.

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Speaker 2: I got it done. Yes, I'm really happy that I did.

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Speaker 3: I know I did everything I could today to make

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Speaker 3: my body as healthy as it could be and repair

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Speaker 3: as much as it could be. So I so's anyone listening,

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Speaker 3: It's never too late. It's never too late.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, wait to you, forty, what's the balance for you?

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Speaker 1: Because obviously you're a mum and you're going to be

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Speaker 1: a mom forever and that's beautiful, and but also you're

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Speaker 1: a you're a career person, you're an academic. You're like,

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Speaker 1: what's the balance is there? You know, because I know

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Speaker 1: some some women have babies and they're like, they're back

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Speaker 1: to work fourteen minutes later and they're moms, but they're

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Speaker 1: still very you know, so that it's a timetable with

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Speaker 1: everything including the baby and feeding and blah blah blah blah.

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Speaker 1: Has there been a big adjustment to how you do

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Speaker 1: life obviously with the baby, but in terms of navigating

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Speaker 1: career stuff.

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Speaker 3: Now, yeah, I mean when I felt pregnant, initially I

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Speaker 3: made some big life decisions to step back and away

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Speaker 3: from certain roles in my life because you know, I

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Speaker 3: am a neuropsychologist, so I do believe in the sanctity

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Speaker 3: of certain trimesters and wanting to keep myself as stress

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Speaker 3: free as possible for my little bubby to grow.

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Speaker 2: Healthy and safe.

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Speaker 3: So I had made a decision to pull back from

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Speaker 3: you know, hospital work and from lecturing at universities and

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Speaker 3: just focus on my private practice. So I have a

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Speaker 3: private practice where I do autism, ADHD assessments, intellectual disability

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Speaker 3: and das you name it, we do it.

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Speaker 2: So that's based in Sydney.

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Speaker 3: I yeah, I focused on that instead, and I was

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Speaker 3: doing I was a bit like U Craig. I was

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Speaker 3: doing a lot of different jobs. I had like three

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Speaker 3: different jobs at the same time. I was go go

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Speaker 3: my entire career, go, go, go, always doing something. I

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Speaker 3: think I'm pretty passionate about, neurosy like, so it was

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Speaker 3: very easy for me to you know, start at seven

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Speaker 3: in the morning and not finish until nine o'clock at

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Speaker 3: night because I just I love it so fun, just

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Speaker 3: fly so quickly, and I just had to change that.

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Speaker 3: I can't do that anymore because I have a little

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Speaker 3: one inside me that needs me to be calm and rested.

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Speaker 3: So I made decisions to change my workload. In the

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Speaker 3: first timester when I was like ten weeks pregnant, I

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Speaker 3: decided to change my workload and that I've run with

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Speaker 3: that since pregnancy, which I'm.

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Speaker 2: Very happy about. And it's that classic cliched.

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Speaker 3: You know business owner who says, oh, I should have

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Speaker 3: done this earlier. You know, when you just bite the

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Speaker 3: bullet and you decide, I'm going to invest in my

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Speaker 3: own my own business, and when you're a full time

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Speaker 3: into my own practice, it's never been better.

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Speaker 2: It was absolutely the.

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Speaker 3: Right decision, you know, for me, sometimes everybody's different, but

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Speaker 3: for me, that was one hundred percent the right decision

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Speaker 3: to focus on that one area and do that really

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Speaker 3: really well, really thorough, really comprehensive, throw myself into that

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Speaker 3: and be really passionate. That's my practice is my other baby.

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Speaker 3: And taking care of, you know, the patients and the

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Speaker 3: clients that we see is something I'm really dedicated and

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Speaker 3: passionate about. And it was just nice to be able

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Speaker 3: to focus on one thing and not feel split across

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Speaker 3: multiple things. I'm sure one day I'd love to go

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Speaker 3: back to teaching and love to go back to hospital work,

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Speaker 3: but I think that's probably a way down the track.

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Speaker 3: And then in terms of when I've had the baby

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Speaker 3: and when I had a little baby, remy I have.

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Speaker 3: I'm very fortunate. I have a very supportive partner who's

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Speaker 3: doing a lot of paternity leave, so I have had

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Speaker 3: the ability to go back to work fairly early on

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Speaker 3: and I don't know if I'm unusual that I love

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Speaker 3: my job so much, Craig, like, I love it. So

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Speaker 3: I started back at work pretty early after Remy was born,

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Speaker 3: where I was, you know, still supervising registrars, still going

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Speaker 3: over cases, still seeing certain clients, and it was only

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Speaker 3: you know, a few hours a week here and there,

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Speaker 3: and we slowly increased it over time. But I, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I really enjoyed being able to have, like, you know,

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Speaker 3: half a day a week that I was able to

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Speaker 3: work even when she was first born, and that for me,

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Speaker 3: was what I needed to help with making making me

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Speaker 3: feel still Hannah and not just you know, I'm just mum.

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Speaker 3: Now I'm still Hannah, and it just it's odd. It

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Speaker 3: wasn't resting, it wasn't sleeping, but man, I found it

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Speaker 3: so invigorating to you know, step out of mum role

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Speaker 3: and step into doing some business and doing some neuropsychology.

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Speaker 3: That invigorated me and that fueled my soul and that

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Speaker 3: made me feel good. So that was a bit of

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Speaker 3: a convoluted answer my, Like, there's no perfect there's no

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Speaker 3: perfect balance. But for me, I've really enjoyed having a

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Speaker 3: combination of being with my buddy and also being able

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Speaker 3: to work, so that's worked for me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, right, do you think you're I don't know if

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Speaker 1: this is a good question. I'm just interested more philosophical

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Speaker 1: about the world and life. Now that you're a mum

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Speaker 1: and now that you're like your life has forever changed

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Speaker 1: and your priorities are forever changed. Or are you essentially

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Speaker 1: the same, just with another thing on the to do

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Speaker 1: list in the nicest possible way.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow, that's such a good question. I mean, I

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Speaker 2: did just compare my baby to a cat earlier. No,

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Speaker 2: I don't know. Yes, No, I think I've well, I

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Speaker 2: think I've always been.

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Speaker 3: Like family is really important. Nothing comes before family. I

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Speaker 3: just haven't had, you know, a little person dependent on

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Speaker 3: me before. So I've been able to prioritize my work,

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Speaker 3: you know, number one for a lot of my life.

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Speaker 3: And now I've been able to go, Yeah, no, forever,

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Speaker 3: this my little my human being will be you know,

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Speaker 3: my prop number one priority, and I'm gonna make sure

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Speaker 3: that I take care of her. That still feels authentically, Hannah.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't feel like a huge shift. I feel like

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Speaker 3: I've been very fortunate in easing into this, and it hasn't.

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Speaker 3: I haven't felt like I'm suddenly a different person. In fact,

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Speaker 3: actually claiing to be perfectly honest, I thought that I

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Speaker 3: would be like like something would click, there would be

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Speaker 3: a light bulb flick, and I would just be like,

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Speaker 3: I'm a mom now and I feel like a mom,

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Speaker 3: and I identify as a mom, and I know what

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Speaker 3: it feels like to be a mom. And I was

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Speaker 3: actually saying to my partner just the other day, like

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Speaker 3: that never happened. I don't, in inverted columbas, feel like

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Speaker 3: a mom. I kind of equate it to like, you know,

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Speaker 3: when you're a kid and you're like, when I'm an adult.

433
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,280
Speaker 2: I'll feel like an adult and I'll think.

434
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 3: Like and then that never happens, and you just have

435
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:50,439
Speaker 3: the same inner monologue and you're just thinking like the

436
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 3: same child that you were, the same voice in your

437
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 3: head when you were eight, when you're eighteen to when

438
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 3: you're thirty eight.

439
00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 2: That's kind of like what it feels like.

440
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 3: I thought I would feel differ, friend, but I feel

441
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 3: still feel the same.

442
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm like a sixty year old, twelve year older,

443
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 1: you know, just a big child. I wonder do because

444
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 1: you're a mum and also a neuroscientist, neuropsychologist, one time

445
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:23,440
Speaker 1: researcher PhD, all of those things, and you're working constantly

446
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 1: in and around brains and minds. Is there a self

447
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:38,680
Speaker 1: imposed pressure on the development the optimal development of your

448
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:44,159
Speaker 1: child's brain? Like, are you like analyzing and reanalyzing every

449
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:48,440
Speaker 1: nuance because zero to five is like zero to five

450
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 1: is crucial in terms of brain development and all the

451
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:55,439
Speaker 1: other Like do you're like, no, fuck it, She'll just

452
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:57,919
Speaker 1: be a kid and whatever will happen will happen. Or

453
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 1: is there some let's not tell anyone, but is there

454
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 1: some strategy in there around developing her Brian optimally?

455
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,200
Speaker 3: Oh? Man, Yeah, I mean perhaps you need to check

456
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,000
Speaker 3: in with me on a six monthly basis for the

457
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 3: next five years, because I feel like so far we've

458
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 3: been pretty relaxed and we've just been going with the

459
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:18,440
Speaker 3: flow and observing these amazing things happen and been like, yeah,

460
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 3: she's ticked that developmental milestone and wow, she's getting a

461
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 3: bit of object permanence now, and oh my gosh, she's

462
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 3: looking at herself in the mirror and just it's been

463
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,359
Speaker 3: actually so lovely to just kind of throw my hands

464
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 3: back and go, yep, it's your.

465
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 2: Brain's job to develop that. Now, it's not my job

466
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 2: to do it.

467
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:33,639
Speaker 1: It's you.

468
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 3: It's your job to do to do it. My only

469
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,119
Speaker 3: job is to make you feel loved, to give you food,

470
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,160
Speaker 3: give you a nice roof of your head. And I've

471
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,439
Speaker 3: really lent into being like, Yay, I'm not responsible for

472
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 3: your brain doing its job. I just get to enjoy

473
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 3: and observe that and take the pressure off myself to

474
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 3: be responsible for your brain being perfect. It's going to

475
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 3: do what it's going to do. We've been pretty relaxed

476
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,239
Speaker 3: for the first six months, but I mean check in

477
00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:01,200
Speaker 3: again when she's a bit old time, because I think

478
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 3: it's definitely pressure in the future, perhaps maybe it'll maybe

479
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:05,640
Speaker 3: they'll feel differently.

480
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I guess. Also, though, like how a kid's

481
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:17,399
Speaker 1: brain develops other than just a natural kind of you know, biological, neurological,

482
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:22,200
Speaker 1: psychological development, sociological development that happens in a baby, all

483
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 1: that normal stuff, but also that is all shaped and

484
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 1: influenced by environment and suits and her parenting style, you know, context, situation, experiences, nutrition, Like,

485
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 1: there are still variables that you need to only you

486
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:45,160
Speaker 1: can manage that she can't manage at this point in time.

487
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 1: So do you ah, yes, I mean you know what

488
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: I'm saying, like, you want to do the right you

489
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 1: want to provide an optimal environment.

490
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,120
Speaker 2: And in enriching environment. Oh yes, okay, yes, so yes, yes,

491
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:56,920
Speaker 2: the answer is yes.

492
00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:58,639
Speaker 3: So my partner did sit me down and we had

493
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:03,880
Speaker 3: a conversation about how many toys, how many stimulating educational

494
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 3: toys I had bought the baby because we do have

495
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 3: a lot. But you know, I mean that to me

496
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 3: was essential. I've also done, you know, breastfeeding. We're doing

497
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:19,359
Speaker 3: the whole you know, solid foods now, all that stuff

498
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 3: to try to achieve an optimal an optimal enriching environment

499
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 3: for her as best we can. So whatever's in our control.

500
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 3: I think I've definitely felt like, let's do that, and

501
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:32,640
Speaker 3: let's try to do that to the best of our ability,

502
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 3: but also being a little bit kind to yourself, like,

503
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,119
Speaker 3: you know, maybe you don't have the space for all that,

504
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:43,120
Speaker 3: or maybe it's not as easy to you know, do breastfeeding.

505
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,639
Speaker 3: Like my early experience of breastfeeding was pretty tough to start,

506
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,919
Speaker 3: So I completely understand why someone would go I'm not

507
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,439
Speaker 3: going to pursue that because sometimes the mom having good

508
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:57,639
Speaker 3: mental health is more important because you're right, it is,

509
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 3: you know, attachment style and the karma you are the

510
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 3: calm of the baby's going to be. I definitely have

511
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 3: noticed when I'm stressed, Remy's stressed. When I'm calm, Remmy's calm.

512
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,879
Speaker 3: And the super secret tip, which you know, take it

513
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 3: or leave it, but my parenting tip that I've found

514
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 3: is super helpful is when Remy's a bit distressed or

515
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,440
Speaker 3: we were having trouble getting into sleep, Mommy and Daddy

516
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 3: would have a cuddle and a kiss above her grip.

517
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 3: Maybe that sounds crazy, but it literally every time Ellie

518
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 3: and I had a little cuddle, we had a little peck,

519
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:29,919
Speaker 3: she would calm down and stop crying. And I just

520
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 3: thought that that was so telling of the environment being

521
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 3: relaxed and calm impacted her.

522
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 2: Take it or leave her people.

523
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 1: That's amazing, that's amazing.

524
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 2: That was beautiful.

525
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 1: So can we broaden the lens of this conversation a

526
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 1: little bit and talk about kids other than your kid?

527
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 1: But it's I don't know if maybe there's just more

528
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 1: awareness now or you know, kids being diagnosed with a

529
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 1: range of different you know, mental challenges and issues and

530
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 1: is it are we just more aware or is there

531
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 1: more prevalence of both, Like it seems like every second

532
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 1: kid has has diagnosed with something and medicated for something

533
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 1: of a psychological you know nature. Is it? What is

534
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 1: the story? Is it a bit of both?

535
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 2: Yeah?

536
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 3: Well, look, when I did my PhD, like I looked

537
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 3: into ADHD and language disorders, and when I was doing

538
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 3: that paper, you know, I the research at that time

539
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 3: was suggesting that most of the studies that said things

540
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 3: like we're over diagnosing and you know, it's not real

541
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 3: and it's just a case of you know, overpathologizing. A

542
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 3: lot of the studies that made those comments it wasn't

543
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 3: actually in the scope of the study to make.

544
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 2: Comments like that.

545
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:55,479
Speaker 3: It was them speaking outside of you know, the range

546
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 3: of s studies measure.

547
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 2: To even comment on it.

548
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 3: And so there's a lot of fear mongering that there

549
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 3: was an over diagnosis of things like ADHD for example,

550
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 3: But an actual fact, the increases to the rates of

551
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 3: ADHD were simply they tended to align and it was

552
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 3: once I saw a very beautiful slide which I would

553
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 3: love to replicate, but it was the increase to the

554
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 3: number of people diagnosed with ADHD whenever there was a

555
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 3: change to our diagnostic criteria. So we have a little manual.

556
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 3: It's like a menu of criteria which tic tick tick.

557
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 3: If you tick enough, then you get the diagnosis. When

558
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 3: the menu was made more accurate and specific, there was

559
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 3: an increase in diagnoses, and that wasn't because there was

560
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 3: more people with it. It was just because we were

561
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 3: detecting them better. So every time there's been a massive

562
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 3: spike in the base rates or the increase of people

563
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 3: with ADHD or other conditions, it has aligned with the

564
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 3: next addition of the diagnostic Statistical Manual, which is that

565
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 3: wonderful bible we have that's used.

566
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 2: Internationally to diagnose feria conditions.

567
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 3: So to me, that's sort of suggesting this is about

568
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 3: us getting more accurate and getting more well, getting better

569
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 3: at finding these people so that they don't end up

570
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 3: in their thirties, forties, fifty sixties. And I see people

571
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 3: in there right into their sixties who were never diagnosed

572
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 3: with intellectual disability. They were never diagnosed with ADHD or autism,

573
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 3: even when it was glaringly clear that they have an issue.

574
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 3: Those people just were never seen because back then it

575
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 3: may have been stigmatized or completely missed. So in my book,

576
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 3: it is it's not an overpathologizing things. It's that we

577
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 3: are getting more accurate at detecting these things.

578
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 1: What are we up to? The DSM six? Is that

579
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 1: where we're at the moment?

580
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 3: Five five five yeah, yeah, So what do you know?

581
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 1: It's so interesting, it's so interesting. I don't know about

582
00:31:58,000 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 1: all of that.

583
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 2: I it's okay. I think it's a safe speed.

584
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 1: I don't disagree with you. I think a lot of

585
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 1: people did in the old days and in the old

586
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 1: age back you know, when I was a kid. I

587
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 1: think people did, you know, Like I've got really good

588
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 1: friends who were dyslexic and they didn't find out till

589
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 1: they were like sixteen. Well, no one, you can't read Champ.

590
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 1: You're not stupid. You've got dyslexia. You know. So a

591
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 1: lot of things did. But how do we know that? Well, Like,

592
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 1: and I know there are specifics and boxes that have

593
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 1: to be ticked. I know it's very methodical, but you

594
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 1: know the difference between someone who's having a bad day

595
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 1: or a bad week, which is just part of the

596
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 1: human like, you know, depression and anxiety and self doubt

597
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 1: and overthinking and feeling a bit blur and feeling a

598
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 1: bit shit. That's also just part of being a human.

599
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, you know, true.

600
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 1: Yes, So it's not like, oh, you're sad, you're depressed. No,

601
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 1: you're just sad because you're human. Because if something bad happened,

602
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 1: or you know, someone called you a dickhead, or you

603
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 1: watched a movie or like, I don't know, I.

604
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 2: Don't know, is there where's the line any Yeah?

605
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 1: Where's the line.

606
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 2: Between normal and.

607
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 3: Yeah?

608
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 1: And also when you go, oh, I don't know, Like

609
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 1: when people go I am, it's like an I am statement.

610
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 1: Then they're whatever they've been diagnosed with becomes their identity.

611
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm.

612
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 1: That worries me a little bit. You know, I am depressed,

613
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 1: I am anxious, I am I have Like it's ah

614
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 1: and I get it. And I'm not trying to be

615
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 1: tricky or difficult. I'm just like, where's the line? You know?

616
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 1: Like what we go, all right, well, you're medicated now forever,

617
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 1: all the best? Like are we fixing the problem? Are

618
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 1: we treating the symptoms? Is there way any way to

619
00:33:56,000 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 1: fix the underlying problem? Is it completely biological and there's

620
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 1: nothing we can do? To like, Yeah, what's I know

621
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 1: it's multi dimensional, but what are your thoughts?

622
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 2: Oh well, big questions, big questions.

623
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 1: Understand for all of that, put a bow on it.

624
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,399
Speaker 2: And when done so you know too.

625
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 3: I think two points that you've kind of really brought

626
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:22,360
Speaker 3: rays that are very fair. Is one, when's the line

627
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 3: of when do I know? Like, how do I know

628
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 3: when this is more than just normal? When is this actually,

629
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 3: you know, neurodiverse or atypical? When do I get my

630
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:33,920
Speaker 3: brain checked? In other words, like when do I need

631
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:38,280
Speaker 3: to get an assessment done? And the second question is

632
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:41,799
Speaker 3: is having a diagnostic label helping people or is it,

633
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:44,879
Speaker 3: you know, something that may may be detrimental to their

634
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:48,400
Speaker 3: sense of self. Now that first question of how do

635
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 3: I know when to get my brain checked, you know,

636
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 3: one of the fundamental answers, and I can give you.

637
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 3: I could unpack so many symptoms and so many case

638
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 3: studies where I've seen where people have told me some

639
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 3: really full on exams samples of you know, not just

640
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 3: being inattentive, but being so distractable and so unable to

641
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:13,440
Speaker 3: concentrate that they have, you know, caused significant issues in

642
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 3: their workplace to the point of losing maybe millions of

643
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,320
Speaker 3: dollars in contracts because they've accidentally put a digit or

644
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 3: a decimal in the wrong spot. Or people who are

645
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:26,799
Speaker 3: so impulsive that they have bought a house that they

646
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,400
Speaker 3: couldn't necessarily afford and they've put a bid down for

647
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:34,359
Speaker 3: something that they couldn't actually handle. Or people who are

648
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 3: so disorganized that they have the money to pay for it,

649
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 3: but they have not paid a single parking fine and

650
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:42,320
Speaker 3: now they're getting pulled into court and then maybe legal

651
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:43,439
Speaker 3: proceedings against them.

652
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:44,840
Speaker 2: Or somebody who.

653
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 3: Has literally locked themselves out of the house nine times

654
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,440
Speaker 3: they've had to call the locksmiths every single time to

655
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 3: get themselves back into the house. You know, there's there's

656
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 3: normal forgetfulness, there's normal poor concentration and disorganization, and then

657
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 3: there's a functional impairment to your life, a functional impairment

658
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 3: to social relationships, like the people who I see who

659
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 3: are having a marital breakdown or a relationship breakdown because

660
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 3: of how severe their symptoms are. There are educational impacts.

661
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,279
Speaker 3: So there's people who are you know, I've had many

662
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 3: people who will tell me about times they'll sit in

663
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 3: a car and absolutely break down and they can't get

664
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:25,360
Speaker 3: themselves to go into an exam that they've been studying

665
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 3: for for the last seven days because they just face

666
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 3: they can't face it. Or people who have had to

667
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 3: drop out of UNI or drop out of school because

668
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 3: they're smart enough to do the work. They're often very

669
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:38,799
Speaker 3: gifted and very intelligent, they just can't seem to get

670
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 3: themselves to do the work. There's also work impacts where

671
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 3: you know, we're getting reprimanded, you know, to the point

672
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 3: that this is starting to threaten my ability to do

673
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 3: my job. This is starting to threat I've got the

674
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 3: ATO knocking on the door because i haven't submitted my

675
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 3: taxes in five years now. These are all examples of

676
00:36:57,120 --> 00:36:59,959
Speaker 3: clients who I've literally seen who have told me about

677
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 3: their symptoms and who we are just living with this

678
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 3: going on. So we're talking about a significant functional impairment

679
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 3: to your life, and a lot of people will have

680
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 3: strategies to try and manage that. I once saw a

681
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 3: girl who she literally picked up her iPhone and she

682
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:17,360
Speaker 3: scrolled and scrolled and scrolled and scrolled and scrolled because

683
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 3: she had that many alarms down to the minute to

684
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:24,359
Speaker 3: remind her alarms in alarms in alarms, because she'd keep

685
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:26,799
Speaker 3: missing things, and if she didn't have that alarm, she

686
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:30,799
Speaker 3: would miss everything. So I think it ultimately it's coming

687
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 3: down to the functional impact. If you feel like it

688
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:38,360
Speaker 3: is impacting social education work, it's impacting your life in

689
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:41,719
Speaker 3: a really negative way, That's that's the line. That's the

690
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 3: line where it's worth going to talk to someone about it.

691
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 3: And the second part of your question was does the

692
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:50,400
Speaker 3: label do anything? And could it be hindering someone or

693
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:52,759
Speaker 3: harming someone? And I want to kind of flip that

694
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 3: on its head for a second and say, well, what

695
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 3: if we don't give a label. You know, I see

696
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 3: people in their twenties, thirties, forties who had undiagnosed autism,

697
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 3: for example, or undiagnosed ADHD or undiagnosed dyslexia. What they

698
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 3: often end up calling themselves is lazy, stupid, unintelligent, not

699
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 3: good enough. And when I sit with them and explain

700
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:19,160
Speaker 3: to them, no, no, there was a part of your

701
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 3: brain that wasn't working the same as other people. You

702
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 3: are a square peg in a world of round pegs

703
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:24,720
Speaker 3: that wasn't.

704
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 2: Made for you.

705
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:28,239
Speaker 3: This information was not explained to you in a way

706
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 3: that you could understand. That has caused that person to

707
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 3: internalize and call themselves all sorts of horrible names and

708
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 3: believe all sorts of horrible things about themselves. When they

709
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:44,240
Speaker 3: finally find out, actually there was something genuinely different about

710
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 3: my brain. It can be very validating to hear I

711
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 3: am not unintelligent, I am not lazy. There is a

712
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 3: real reason why this has been a struggle for me

713
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:56,120
Speaker 3: compared to other people, and hearing those terms has helped

714
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 3: them to really validate their lived experience.

715
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:04,319
Speaker 1: Hmmmm. I like it. I like it. It's a good explanation.

716
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:08,319
Speaker 1: And I think there's that having that diagnosis and that awareness,

717
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:12,839
Speaker 1: and there's a fair chasm between that and understanding, oh,

718
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 1: this is why I am the way I am and

719
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:20,719
Speaker 1: walking around calling yourself anxious or calling yourself whatever it

720
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 1: is all day every day while you know so that

721
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 1: that doesn't Yes, it is. It is part of part

722
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 1: of what's going on with you, but it's it's not

723
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 1: the totality of you like this, it's not who I am.

724
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 1: It's not who I am at my core. Yeah, I mean,

725
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:44,400
Speaker 1: and with things like and I know that there are

726
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 1: a lot of variables around this, and you get ten

727
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 1: people with ADHD, for example, they're not all going to

728
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:53,320
Speaker 1: behave the same react, the same, respond, the same, express

729
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 1: the same, But that's my assumption anyway.

730
00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 2: No, that's very true. There are different phenotypes.

731
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 1: Right, So are we trying to with somebody, like with

732
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:11,440
Speaker 1: somebody who has ADHD and who often we're seeing now

733
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 1: people in their forties getting diagnosed, going ah fuck, no,

734
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 1: wonder you've been like that your whole life. You're not broken,

735
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 1: you're not weird. There's just this thing, and your gorgeous

736
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:23,719
Speaker 1: and amazing, but you've got this thing going on. Are

737
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 1: we trying to just manage that thing? Are we trying

738
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 1: to are we trying to improve the condition or are

739
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 1: we trying to provide a medication that will just keep

740
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 1: them more operational and more functional?

741
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,760
Speaker 3: Oh gosh, such a complex quession, which we could probably

742
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:48,360
Speaker 3: do a whole nother episode on. To be honest, the

743
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:53,959
Speaker 3: short answer is sometimes both. It depends on severity. I think,

744
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 3: you know, holistic approach is always better than having one

745
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:01,319
Speaker 3: silver bullet, right, The idea that you could just pop

746
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:03,280
Speaker 3: a pill and every problem is going to go away.

747
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 3: I think anyone who's triald medication.

748
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 2: Knows that that's not how it works.

749
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 3: There is an element of behavioral change, therapy, interventions, rehabilitation,

750
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 3: and effort for work that needs to go into the

751
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 3: functional impact getting better and things like I talked about

752
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 3: with work and school and relationships. You can't just take

753
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 3: a pill and expect everything to go away, which is

754
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 3: why you know people who think I'll just take that

755
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:35,319
Speaker 3: medication and everything will be gone. No, you also have

756
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 3: to put some effort into well unlearning some bad habits,

757
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 3: and so the brain, the frontal lobe's learning some better

758
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 3: regulation skills so that you're not reliant on that medication forever.

759
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 3: The idea is it's helping your brain to bring it

760
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 3: up to a baseline level that you can start to

761
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:57,279
Speaker 3: learn some new skills and some new habits and healthier strategies,

762
00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:01,760
Speaker 3: healthier external strategies so that you can start to function

763
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:05,400
Speaker 3: better in life and be happy and live live the

764
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:07,799
Speaker 3: quality life that you need to.

765
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:08,440
Speaker 2: Or you want to.

766
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:12,400
Speaker 3: So, you know, I think anyone who's saying what just

767
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:17,320
Speaker 3: one answer is probably too reductionistic. It's a holistic approach

768
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:19,759
Speaker 3: where we need to look at sleep and diet and

769
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 3: you know all the things we mentioned earlier in this podcast,

770
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 3: and a lot of people can have great success without

771
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 3: medication as well by exploring those avenues too. So the

772
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 3: answer is not always just medication, but for some people

773
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:35,400
Speaker 3: it can be absolutely life changing.

774
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 1: Now I know there's no three or four point list

775
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 1: that you're going to wheel out, But if somebody is thinking,

776
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 1: I wonder if I should go and see a doctor

777
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:55,839
Speaker 1: Hannah or similar, what kind of criteria do they need

778
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:58,280
Speaker 1: to meet or what kind of needs to be going

779
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:01,880
Speaker 1: on for me to go? Might be something, might be nothing,

780
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:04,800
Speaker 1: but I'll go see someone and have a chat, like what,

781
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 1: you know, if there was stuff going on with me

782
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:12,239
Speaker 1: where I was unsure, what might precipitate me going to

783
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:12,719
Speaker 1: see you?

784
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:17,439
Speaker 3: So I think, you know, if you feel like you've

785
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:21,880
Speaker 3: got to a point where something in life is really

786
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 3: not going the way that you were hoping it is

787
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 3: going to go, so there's a significant impact to your life. So,

788
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:30,439
Speaker 3: say you're not able to do your work, say you're

789
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:34,480
Speaker 3: not able to study, Say you're not able to have

790
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 3: a healthy, meaningful relationship with someone when you want to,

791
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 3: and you've been trying to do this and you're finding

792
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 3: that in those aspects social work education, you're not getting

793
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 3: things done that you need to get done, to the

794
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:51,280
Speaker 3: point that it's impacting your ability to do that job,

795
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:54,080
Speaker 3: impacting your ability to do that course, impacting your ability

796
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 3: to be in that relationship, and you're going to lose

797
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 3: something as a consequence.

798
00:43:58,480 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 2: You know.

799
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 3: That's when I'm saying that, That's when I'm thinking it's

800
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 3: probably time to just have a chat with someone. You

801
00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 3: could have a conversation with your GP about it.

802
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:07,840
Speaker 2: Your GP will.

803
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 3: Often have some good questionnaires that are a nice little

804
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:14,440
Speaker 3: to start starting point, and then that could then be

805
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 3: a referral to a neuropsychologist or a psychiatrist for a

806
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:22,279
Speaker 3: more thorough examination. So you know, I think deep down

807
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 3: a lot of people will resonate with some of these

808
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 3: things and they'll know, dip down that sounds like me.

809
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:30,239
Speaker 3: You can do a little bit of research, make sure

810
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 3: it's a reputable organization where you're getting your facts from.

811
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:38,920
Speaker 3: Do a bit of knowledgeable research about it. But there

812
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:40,880
Speaker 3: does come a time where it's helpful to talk to

813
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:45,280
Speaker 3: it a professional to make sure that you're not I suppose,

814
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 3: getting your information from poor sources. And that's where touching

815
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:51,880
Speaker 3: base with the GP may be useful as just that

816
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:54,400
Speaker 3: interim person. Do you think I should go and see

817
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 3: the neuropsych or the psychologist or the psychiatrist. People like

818
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:02,960
Speaker 3: my do intakes where we'll just do a fifty minute session.

819
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:04,879
Speaker 3: We'll go through and say is there enough in there

820
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 3: for you to get an assessment? Is there any point

821
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:11,239
Speaker 3: or is there something else going on, like you're not

822
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:14,320
Speaker 3: getting any sleep, you have a significant problem with alcohola

823
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 3: drug use at the moment, or you haven't trialed some

824
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 3: therapy for six months to see if this is just

825
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 3: something you can work out through neurotypical depression anxiety strategies.

826
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 3: Then you know there might be other things you can

827
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 3: explore before you seek an assessment. But when in doubt,

828
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:33,160
Speaker 3: I actually think I'd err towards just talking to a

829
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:35,960
Speaker 3: professional touching base with your GP and have a little

830
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:41,719
Speaker 3: conversation about it and just see what the professional has

831
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 3: to say about it.

832
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 1: And always we should first start with chat GPT, though.

833
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:53,839
Speaker 3: Right, I don't know, I feel like that's a bit

834
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:55,320
Speaker 3: of a double edged sword card.

835
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 1: I'm kidding.

836
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 3: Look, it's an amazing tool. It's an amazing tool. You

837
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 3: could say, were the symptoms of ADHD and see what resonates.

838
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:08,399
Speaker 3: But just keep in mind those algorithms they I think

839
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:10,879
Speaker 3: somebody used the term hallucinate to me the other day.

840
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:13,600
Speaker 2: Have you heard of that, Craig, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

841
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:15,920
Speaker 3: Where they start, it's us to say stuff that may

842
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:16,799
Speaker 3: not be accurate, so.

843
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:19,920
Speaker 1: It says that often comes up with stuff which is

844
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 1: complete garbage, so.

845
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:24,000
Speaker 2: It doesn't replace the professional That.

846
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 1: Was a joke, everybody, don't We don't start there. Hey,

847
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 1: I'm glad that you and the kiddo well and that

848
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:35,960
Speaker 1: the world's best partner is being the world's best partner,

849
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:40,319
Speaker 1: and that you look happy and healthy, and maybe we

850
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:41,919
Speaker 1: can chat more than once a year.

851
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:47,120
Speaker 2: Huh, let's do it. Let's let's continue the chat.

852
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 3: I'm sure there's lots of things we can unpack here.

853
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 2: We've talked about a lot today.

854
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:54,360
Speaker 1: How do people connect with you? Doc?

855
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:58,920
Speaker 3: Come and check me out at Sydney neuropsych dot com

856
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:01,839
Speaker 3: dot au. That's my practice and you can also find

857
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:05,239
Speaker 3: me on Instagram. I'm the no ballsych is in N

858
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 3: O b U L L Psych Noble and Yeah, very

859
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:12,319
Speaker 3: happy to chat if you have any questions, if you

860
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 3: wanted a little bit more clarification or anything, We're always

861
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:15,919
Speaker 3: happy to help.

862
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for having me on the show. Craig is

863
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:21,640
Speaker 2: actually really great to see you again. I'm so happy

864
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 2: to be back.

865
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 1: Thank you. I'm a little bit awesome. You're welcome. I

866
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:31,320
Speaker 1: did a humility workshop and I was the best. I'm stoking.

867
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:33,400
Speaker 1: I was going to say, oh, that's what I was

868
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:35,799
Speaker 1: thinking just before we let you go. Hey everyone, so

869
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:39,960
Speaker 1: you know that we've got our Facebook group, so the

870
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:45,000
Speaker 1: you Project Facebook page. If you've got some questions for

871
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:48,959
Speaker 1: doctor Hannah, come in there and we might we might

872
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:51,080
Speaker 1: well see if there's any response. We might do a

873
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:54,800
Speaker 1: Q and a session with the good doc around anything

874
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:57,719
Speaker 1: that we've spoken about today, or more broadly, anything in

875
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:03,839
Speaker 1: the psychology, neuros, ecology, human behavior, brain you know, you

876
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:08,239
Speaker 1: get it, anything in that space, and if we can't

877
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:10,520
Speaker 1: answer it, we'll make something up, which is you know,

878
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:13,480
Speaker 1: that's what we do. We just make shit up. No,

879
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:16,319
Speaker 1: go to that page and if you want to leave

880
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:20,840
Speaker 1: a question or two, we will. We'll keep those questions

881
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:23,120
Speaker 1: and we'll get the doc back and we'll maybe do

882
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:25,480
Speaker 1: a Q and A session which might be interesting. What

883
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:26,040
Speaker 1: do you think now?

884
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:27,440
Speaker 2: I think that's a great idea.

885
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 3: And guys, in the interim, if anything we've talked about

886
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:33,440
Speaker 3: today has been triggering for you, or anything that has

887
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 3: brought some stuff up for you. Do get in touch

888
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:38,720
Speaker 3: with the Lifeline. Reach out to Lifeline on thirteen eleven fourteen.

889
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 3: They get They're there for support if you have any

890
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:43,680
Speaker 3: of the questions or want to quickly research things. Places

891
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 3: like the Raising Children Network is really great online and

892
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:49,880
Speaker 3: that's useful for anyone who might have questions about themselves

893
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:51,800
Speaker 3: or a child of theirs, if they're a bit worried

894
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:53,440
Speaker 3: about something going on with their development.

895
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:57,799
Speaker 1: Perfect as always, I'd expect nothing less. Thanks Doc. We'll

896
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:00,719
Speaker 1: say goodbye a fair but for now, thanks being back

897
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:01,520
Speaker 1: on the new project.

898
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:02,360
Speaker 2: Thanks guys,