1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:03,960 Speaker 1: None of us know when a child goes to any 2 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: school anyway, any of us who you're going to meet 3 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: in any classroom, let alone in the whole school. It's 4 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 1: a bit of a raffle. And in this raffle, you 5 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 1: drew the joker you didn't draw. 6 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:16,959 Speaker 2: I try to say to him, and I say it 7 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 2: over and over again. Every person's car, you steal, every 8 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:23,079 Speaker 2: house you go into, you're hurting someone like it. You're 9 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:25,279 Speaker 2: not physically hurting them. And I don't believe he would 10 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 2: physically hurt anyone. But you're hurting them, You're giving them trauma. 11 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 1: I'm Andrew Rule. This is Life and Crimes Today. In 12 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:35,279 Speaker 1: the studio, we have a lady that I don't know, 13 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: but I spoke to her at length just yesterday. And 14 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:41,239 Speaker 1: I did that because a friend of mine met her 15 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: husband recently. He's a hard worker, he's got a good business. 16 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:48,160 Speaker 1: They have a teenage boy, so he's only a schoolboy 17 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 1: who's never had a shave theoretically, and yet they find 18 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 1: themselves as the parents of the youngest boy that they 19 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 1: now see in the last twelve months as someone who's 20 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 1: sort of on the road to being a young criminal. 21 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: They are devastated by his actions, he has essentially run 22 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:16,320 Speaker 1: away from home. He's joined a gang of lunatic carthieves 23 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: and burglars, as they say, and he and others they 24 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 1: use drugs. That's sort of part of their motivation. They 25 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: are addicted not only to drugs in this instance's ice, 26 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: but also to the adrenaline surge of crime. Welcome to 27 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 1: our podcast. It is so kind of you to come 28 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 1: and talk to us. And I was so impressed with 29 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:43,759 Speaker 1: the rundown that you gave me about how your life, 30 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: your family life has devolved from a very good place 31 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 1: two years ago to something that's really quite desperate for 32 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 1: you now. 33 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, Andrew. Yeah, it's all been a bit 34 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 2: of a whirlwind twelve months for us. Never a million 35 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 2: years expected my child would be doing these type of things. 36 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 1: Tell us about yourself just briefly. 37 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 2: You I'm a married obviously to my husband. I have 38 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:15,640 Speaker 2: my own business. My husband's got his own business in 39 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:19,800 Speaker 2: a lovely house, and we're go on holidays every year 40 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:22,800 Speaker 2: and we're a very solid unit family. 41 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 1: Right and until you know, last summer we're saying last 42 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 1: summer with me, Yeah we are. Then, Yeah, it was 43 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:29,839 Speaker 1: all pretty good. 44 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 2: It was excellent we were overseas, just prior to all 45 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 2: of this kind of exploding. 46 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:38,799 Speaker 1: All together all together. How was she? Youngest spoke We 47 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 1: can't name him here, of course, and we won't, but 48 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: you're youngest fellow, the kid, the boy, the lad. What 49 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:47,919 Speaker 1: was he like there on that trip away? Great? 50 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 2: Was his normal self like? He was out for dinner 51 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 2: with us, We were doing all the touristy things. There 52 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:57,919 Speaker 2: was no signs of any kind of of this kind 53 00:02:57,919 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 2: of behavior. Anyway. It had a bit of a rough 54 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 2: time time at school, and he didn't love school, which 55 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 2: you know a lot of kids at the moment don't. 56 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 2: So we had moved in schools. 57 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: When did he move. 58 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 2: He moved last year. We moved him onto the new 59 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 2: school and he was seemed to be settling in quite well. 60 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 2: They had some good programs available for him. The school 61 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 2: were brilliant, and he unfortunately started meeting some new kids 62 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 2: at that school that just little things started. He would 63 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:31,919 Speaker 2: go out to see a friend and he wouldn't be there, 64 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 2: and he'd be elsewhere elsewhere. 65 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm but he's really down the street. 66 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 2: And a couple of times we picked him up at 67 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 2: odd places and he would ring us to pick him 68 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 2: up and he was in the middle of kind of 69 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 2: national park type things, and we were kind of like, 70 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:51,119 Speaker 2: you know, what is going on? And then that kind 71 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 2: of developed into he left the home under pretty extreme circumstances. 72 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 2: There was lots of arguing and tears and fighting and 73 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 2: trying for us, trying to keep him there. 74 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 1: And what was his excuse for leaving home. I'm leaving 75 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: home because. 76 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 2: He wanted to see his friends. And I was effectively saying, 77 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 2: you're not seeing some of these friends anymore. So he 78 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 2: was hellbent that he. 79 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:18,600 Speaker 1: Was one friend in particular at the new school. Now, 80 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:20,840 Speaker 1: none of us know when a child goes to any 81 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 1: school anyway, any of us are you're going to meet 82 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 1: in any classroom, let alone in the whole school. And 83 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,840 Speaker 1: that applies to the pupils and bloes to teacher. Yes, 84 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 1: you know, one bad teacher, one good teacher. 85 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 2: That's right. 86 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: It's a bit of a raffle. And in this raffle 87 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 1: you drew. You know, you drew the joker. You didn't 88 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:41,359 Speaker 1: draw because he fell in with one particular buck. You 89 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 1: think that was a bad influence, Yeah, a stronger personality, Yeah, I. 90 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 2: Think what do you think this boy had been already 91 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 2: kind of into this scheme of things, and probably then 92 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 2: it was just starting with some drugs and some maybe 93 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 2: shop thefts type behavior that I think he met him 94 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 2: and then very quickly met his friends, and so it 95 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 2: escalated very quickly with a small group of them at 96 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:11,799 Speaker 2: the time, and that group just grew. 97 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 1: When you met that boy, the scallywag boy, and he 98 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:18,159 Speaker 1: came to your house, yes, and you been the friendly, 99 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 1: positive person that you obviously are. You were welcoming. At 100 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:25,840 Speaker 1: the back of your brain, you thought, I'm not really 101 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:29,159 Speaker 1: love kid, yeah, but you know, he's my son's friend. 102 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: I'll be nice to him. You also met that boy's mother. 103 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, I did. And when I met his mother when 104 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 2: he came to my home, I thought, oh, I'm not 105 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 2: really sure, but I was like benefit of the day out, 106 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 2: you know, my son's friend. And then one night, while 107 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 2: I was actually searching for my son, I met his 108 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 2: the friend's mum, and she warned me and said, you know, 109 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 2: it's probably best that you keep your son away from 110 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 2: my son. My son's not in a good place at 111 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 2: the moment, right And I just as mums do you 112 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 2: know to her back and reassured her that now I'm 113 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:05,280 Speaker 2: sure you know, they're just boys. You know, they'll be okay, 114 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 2: they'll be okay, and now at. 115 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:09,039 Speaker 1: Stuff, all that good stuff. 116 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 2: If we say yeah, looking back, I think, oh wow, 117 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:13,719 Speaker 2: maybe I should have listened a little bit more. But 118 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 2: you know, trying to keep him away from this group 119 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 2: then was just impossible. He was so drawn to them. 120 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:23,840 Speaker 1: That is a very good point, and it's something I've 121 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:26,599 Speaker 1: discussed with other people, you know, at my place of 122 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,479 Speaker 1: work here at the Herald Sun and a colleague of 123 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:33,840 Speaker 1: ours who's got teenage boys. He said, it's all very well, 124 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 1: people saying, you know what, what are the parents doing? 125 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 1: Why aren't that at home? He said, If a fifteen 126 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:42,360 Speaker 1: year old fifteen sixteen wants to just head off and 127 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:44,839 Speaker 1: go somewhere and they're willing to defy you, what do 128 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 1: you do? Do you handcut them? He said? It's not 129 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 1: actually that much you can do. 130 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:51,360 Speaker 2: There isn't Physically, Yeah. 131 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: Once you've lost the sort of mental it's like controlling 132 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:56,720 Speaker 1: you know, a horse that weighs a ton or a 133 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 1: or a rott while a dog. Once you've lost control, 134 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:03,719 Speaker 1: you've lost control. You can't actually force them physically. 135 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 2: No, And even at the time when he was away 136 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 2: from the home, and I think he'd been away maybe 137 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 2: just a week at that time, and I was, you know, 138 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 2: all night looking for my husband and I would be 139 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 2: out all hours of the night looking for him, my 140 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 2: older children driving around, will just search for him. And 141 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 2: when I got him back this particular day, I had 142 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 2: said to the because obviously the police were aware that 143 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 2: he was missing. As such, I said to the police, 144 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 2: I'm going to lock his door, like I'm going to 145 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 2: lock him in his room. And they said, you can't 146 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 2: lock him in his room, and if you do, and 147 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 2: if he has a way of contacting someone, you will 148 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 2: be the one in charge because you're ultimately locking him 149 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 2: in there. So I'm like, what else am I supposed 150 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 2: to do? So he came home this one night after 151 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 2: we picked him up from the police with a allegedly 152 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 2: stolen vehicle, and he was just a different kid. 153 00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: He was. 154 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 2: The next morning, I woke him up and said, you know, 155 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 2: get up, you're not sleeping all day just because you've 156 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 2: been out all night. And it just turned really really 157 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 2: crazy after that, and I took his phone from him 158 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 2: and he got really really agitated about that, and you 159 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 2: broke it, I did. 160 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 1: I broke head mind you say you would have paid 161 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 1: for the fat phone. 162 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 2: It was my phone to break, and I did because 163 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 2: I was just so distressed, and all he wanted was 164 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 2: the phone because obviously that was his contact. Once that happened, 165 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 2: he just completely escalated and was screaming and yelling, making 166 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 2: threats of to kill us, making threats of violence in 167 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 2: the home. We called my eldest son home to try 168 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 2: and have a bit of help from him, perhaps as 169 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:44,559 Speaker 2: you know, the cool big brother like you know, and 170 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 2: he was going at him and my son couldn't do 171 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 2: anything to help us either. And anyway, it was I 172 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 2: remember the day. It was about forty degrees that day, 173 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 2: and he left in track sit pants and a jumper 174 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 2: and he ran up my drive and jumped out gate 175 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 2: and he just ran. So obviously the police and all 176 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 2: the rest of it were involved in and about two 177 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 2: hours later, his school at the time rang me and 178 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 2: said we've got him here and he's in a really 179 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:13,439 Speaker 2: bad way. He's really hot, and I said it was 180 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 2: because he's run from home. But then he took off 181 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:18,679 Speaker 2: from there as soon as he got word that I knew, 182 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:23,959 Speaker 2: and then it just started. It just started escalating and 183 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 2: he was not coming home at all, we did. He 184 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 2: was just sleeping at friends' houses on couches here, there 185 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 2: and everywhere. Then when he was spoken to by the police, 186 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 2: at some point he had reported that his mum had 187 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 2: snapped his phone in half. So the next call I 188 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 2: get is from child protection. 189 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 1: Which did he tell people at school or was it 190 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:46,320 Speaker 1: the police? 191 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 2: I think you tell people at school and then obviously 192 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 2: the police as well, which you know, the police are 193 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 2: almost a bit like, well, it was your phone anyway. 194 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 2: But when he told the school and then it got 195 00:09:57,160 --> 00:09:59,319 Speaker 2: reported that to child protection. 196 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 1: Took it on themselves to report a snapped phone to 197 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 1: child protection. 198 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 2: I'm not one hundred percent sure we can. 199 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 1: Turn up with two black eyes. 200 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:10,959 Speaker 2: No, never, No, that's right. 201 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:14,959 Speaker 1: It turned up. Yeah, mum broke the phone that she 202 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 1: paid for. 203 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. So once child Protection were involved, you know, 204 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:22,559 Speaker 2: because I was quite shocked that they were involved totally 205 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 2: with it all, and I was kind of a bit 206 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 2: confused about the whole thing. And that was their explanation 207 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 2: was because that's seen as a form of abuse, that 208 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:34,560 Speaker 2: I've broken his phone, even though it was my phone. 209 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 2: So they got involved, and of course then they wanted 210 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:41,200 Speaker 2: to investigate me and my husband. So they came around 211 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:45,680 Speaker 2: and they talked to him about how is it so 212 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 2: bad living here and all the rest of it, and 213 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 2: of course he was just like, no, everything's fine. Like 214 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 2: so we've constantly, unfortunately, have to deal with them, which is, 215 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 2: you know, for this whole time that they've been involved. 216 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:02,079 Speaker 2: They've because my oin goal in this is to have 217 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 2: him home with us at one point, and they have 218 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 2: promised me the whole time, for twelve months they'll organize 219 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 2: remunification counseling, all the all the good sounding things have 220 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 2: been offered to me, but not one thing has ever 221 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:20,559 Speaker 2: been followed through. Up until this day, I still don't 222 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:24,680 Speaker 2: have any sort of contact with family counseling relationships Australia, 223 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 2: nothing from Trump Protection's point of view. But yet they 224 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:29,679 Speaker 2: take me to court once a month and try and 225 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 2: get me to sign my rights over to make him 226 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 2: a Yeah, water the state, the state, which I will 227 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:38,200 Speaker 2: never do, which I will never ever do. 228 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 1: Surprise. So really, the state, in all its wisdom, that's 229 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 1: all it's done for. He is trying. He's basically trying 230 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 1: monster you. 231 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, oh absolutely, the. 232 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 1: State, like everybody else, finds it very hard to deal 233 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 1: with the problem of hurting cats. That is, yes, boys 234 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:57,960 Speaker 1: like this, Yes, too hard. So let's go, let's go around, 235 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:00,560 Speaker 1: knock on mum store. You know who she is. That's right, 236 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 1: and we'll. 237 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 2: Have and the you know, through the whole process. As 238 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 2: after that time, he just slowly but surely escalated crime 239 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:13,680 Speaker 2: after crime after slowly. Well no it's not. It wasn't 240 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:16,680 Speaker 2: really that slow. No, but there was just constant court dates. 241 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 2: Court dates are coming up. He wasn't showing up to court. 242 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 1: Now, tell us what life he's leading it this date. 243 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:26,359 Speaker 1: So by the middle of last year, he's basically CouchSurfing 244 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 1: around the place. God knows where, squat's anything you don't 245 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 1: know where, yep. And some relatively unsavory you imagine, yes, 246 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 1: and with unsavory people, some of whom are selling drugs 247 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 1: to these kids, and of course the kids in the end, 248 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 1: they might get some drugs free here or there. Yeah, 249 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 1: but it's not going to continue. They're going to have 250 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 1: to pay their way. And how do they do that. 251 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 2: Well, as far as I know, from what I've read 252 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 2: between the lines and seen, it's a lot of the 253 00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:01,199 Speaker 2: stealing of the cars or property, anything anything they can 254 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 2: sell on. So there might be PlayStations or phones, or 255 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 2: often they'll get credit cards, but the cars the probably 256 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 2: the biggest problem. 257 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 1: The biggest problem. So they break into house is to 258 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 1: get the keys essentially yep, and then they steal the cars. 259 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 1: And then where do most of these Now? I know 260 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 1: they like doing them and speeding, but there is an 261 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 1: end thing for what happens to them. 262 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 2: They end up they end up leaving them at a 263 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 2: point where they've organized with someone else, and then that person, 264 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 2: that next person they'll leave the keys wherever, and that 265 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:39,079 Speaker 2: next person will then take the car on. So whether 266 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 2: they get paid very very minimal, if any money at all, 267 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 2: it's very rarely money they get paid for it, They 268 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 2: usually get paid in drugs, get paid in drugs. Then 269 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 2: those people take the car on. So the problem is 270 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 2: when he gets arrested for a car and he says, 271 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:56,319 Speaker 2: I'm going to I'm going to plead guilty, and I'm 272 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 2: going to say it was me. They know it was me. 273 00:13:58,480 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 2: All the rest of it is what he says to me. 274 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 2: When his lawyer gets hold of him, he says, no, 275 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 2: you need to do no comment because those cars potentially 276 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,199 Speaker 2: could have been stolen weeks before and they're the fourth 277 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 2: or fifth or sixth person to have that car handed 278 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 2: onto them. So effectively, if he pleads guilty to that car, 279 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 2: he could go down for all the previous God knows 280 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 2: what it's been doing in the past. 281 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 1: So you say he could be picking. 282 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 2: Up a stolen yes, yeah, yeah, I didn't realize that. Yes, 283 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 2: so they rotate them around kind of yeah. 284 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 1: But so a delivery mechanism. 285 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, almost, Yes, he doesn't. I don't feel like he 286 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 2: often rotates them around too often. He seems to do 287 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 2: the break He goes for the breakings and the cars. 288 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:46,240 Speaker 2: But I've been told on several times he you know, 289 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 2: in one night, he might get six or. 290 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 1: Seven cars and deliver them here or there. 291 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 2: Keep them for a while and drive them, drive them around, 292 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 2: and they drive them around like they're their own cars. 293 00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, he learned to drive very young. 294 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 2: He had never driven a car until NI started doing this. 295 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 2: But it took him a little while, from what I hear, 296 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 2: to work his way up the rungs a bit. And 297 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 2: at the start you can't drive, apparently, and then eventually 298 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 2: you're allowed to be a driver. So he's now a driver. 299 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 1: So sometimes this is the sort of theft ladder. 300 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, so now he can drive them. Often he'll 301 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 2: have other people steal them and then he'll drive them. 302 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 2: So it's kind of a way. Yet they have to 303 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:35,960 Speaker 2: almost work their way up to be a driver. 304 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 1: Right, and he'll drive them and flop them somewhere. Now 305 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 1: when we see you know, gangland hits, Gangland arsons, et cetera. 306 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 1: They're always driving fast cast good cars like the hit 307 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 1: the other day of the kickboxer abdul Rahim. It was 308 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 1: a portion mccarna. I think a car probably worth north 309 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 1: of one hundred thousand dollars. And this is sort of 310 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 1: standard fair you know, good out. He's good beamers. They're 311 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 1: very road where they go fast, they go on well, 312 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 1: and they're the sort of thing that can maybe get 313 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 1: away from the police or at least have a chance. Yes, 314 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 1: and then they torch them. But all those cars come 315 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 1: from somewhere, and I'm here to suggest that they come 316 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 1: from kids like yours. 317 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 2: More than likely he only steals luxury cars. He's not 318 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 2: I know, there's kind of seems to be at the 319 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 2: moment another sort of group doing commodorees. He'll only steal 320 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 2: luxury cars and good cars, and he'll openly admit that 321 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 2: he just loves fast cars. He loves good sounding cars. 322 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 2: You know, he's quite picky unfortunately in his cars, which 323 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 2: then brings him to areas where he steals those cars from. 324 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 2: Obviously well heilled areas. Yeah, good area. 325 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 1: And to do this, they need to get into the 326 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 1: houses to get the keys by luche unless he hasn't 327 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 1: got some else why electronic stuff, So it's just get key, 328 00:16:58,640 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: get cars. 329 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 2: Goes into the house monkey. Yes, that's right, as far 330 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:06,359 Speaker 2: as I'm aware. He goes into the houses. Often there'll 331 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 2: be a door left open that they will check. 332 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:10,400 Speaker 1: There's a tip there. 333 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 2: Lock your doors, He'll y, They'll check for doors. They'll 334 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 2: often find a door open, they'll go through. They'll pretty 335 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 2: much just focus on getting the keys. They'll get as 336 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 2: many keys as they can, and then they kind of 337 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 2: come out to the street and they just start buzzing 338 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:30,359 Speaker 2: cars until they find which one matches. It's the same 339 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 2: with if they go into a gym, they'll often get 340 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:37,160 Speaker 2: the gym keys. People's lockers. 341 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, these lockers are locked. 342 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 2: No, a lot of the gyms have open lockers, so 343 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 2: you just pop your drink bottle and your keys on them, 344 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:46,360 Speaker 2: and then you go and do your workout. So they 345 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 2: come in. They've got a lot of the group have 346 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 2: swipers for every gym that they've stolen along the way, 347 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 2: so they can swipe into a gym, or they sneak 348 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:58,160 Speaker 2: in behind somebody. They'll take the keys and they'll again 349 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 2: go out to the car park. They'll buzz the keys 350 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 2: until they find the right car and off they go. 351 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:06,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so he did a feb of that the 352 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 1: gym thing would be at least avoid confrontation with Yes, 353 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:10,440 Speaker 1: with householders. 354 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:12,920 Speaker 2: Yes, he's done quite a lot of gyms. He went 355 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:14,920 Speaker 2: through a bit of a spat of the aggravated birds 356 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:17,640 Speaker 2: in houses. Then he went to gym's and he did 357 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 2: them for quite a while. And when he was reminded 358 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:25,199 Speaker 2: once after the gym episode, you know, I spoke to 359 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 2: his lawyer and we both kind of said, not that 360 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 2: there's a there's not a good outcome to any of this, 361 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:34,159 Speaker 2: but if anything, we were preferring him do the gyms 362 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:37,920 Speaker 2: because people weren't yeah, having they weren't having trauma from 363 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 2: being in their home. 364 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:41,600 Speaker 1: You're not getting the confrontation, that's right, which is very 365 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:42,920 Speaker 1: badly one way or the other. 366 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:44,440 Speaker 2: Yes, that's exactly right. 367 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 1: Do you think your son went armed? 368 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:49,800 Speaker 2: He says not, But he says not. There was an 369 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 2: aggravated berg and car theft of a very expensive car 370 00:18:55,520 --> 00:19:01,120 Speaker 2: in Williamstown area. He drove that car around. That car 371 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 2: was I'm going to say, from what I remember, about 372 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:06,679 Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty thousand dollar car. He stole some 373 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 2: other personal property from that house which was of very 374 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 2: high value. He drove that car around. That story made 375 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 2: the news, and when I saw the news, it was 376 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 2: said that they were armed with machetes, and I lost 377 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 2: my mind because he's never ever been armed with a 378 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 2: machete before. But the group he was with did have machetes. 379 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:33,120 Speaker 2: My son always says to me, I would never hurt anyone, Mum, 380 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 2: I would never hurt anyone. You know, I would never 381 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 2: hurt anyone. But I tried to say to him, and 382 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 2: I say it over and over again. Every person's car, 383 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:44,719 Speaker 2: you steal, every house you go into, you're hurting someone 384 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 2: like you're not physically hurting them. And I don't believe 385 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:50,480 Speaker 2: he would physically hurt anyone, But you're hurting them, you're 386 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 2: giving them trauma. 387 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:55,359 Speaker 1: So he once in a week moment stole a little 388 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 1: cheap car Okaia and he told you about this? How 389 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 1: did that come about? Yeah? How come he was talking 390 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 1: to you about it? 391 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:05,120 Speaker 2: Well, I followed quite a lot of these pages on 392 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:07,200 Speaker 2: Facebook and things, and you know, you don't think you'll 393 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 2: ever follow these pages, But now I'm on every stolen 394 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:11,920 Speaker 2: car's page there is, and when I see them kind 395 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:14,199 Speaker 2: of local or in areas, I think that maybe he 396 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:17,200 Speaker 2: might be I kind of follow it up. And then 397 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 2: I was notified by the police that he was seen 398 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,680 Speaker 2: in this particular car. So then I piece all the 399 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:27,199 Speaker 2: pieces together of the Facebook posts and him and I 400 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:29,639 Speaker 2: just ring him now and I'll say where are you? 401 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 2: What are you doing that it are? And this particular night, 402 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:34,639 Speaker 2: he was pretty rattled and he wanted to get rid 403 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 2: of this car because he knew that it was hot 404 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 2: with the police. The police are onto him. The police 405 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,440 Speaker 2: have been in contact with me and my oldest son 406 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 2: as well, and seeing if we knew where he was. 407 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:47,360 Speaker 2: And I said to him, just he was quite frantic 408 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 2: and obviously under the influence of drugs, and he said, 409 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 2: I need to get rid of a mom I need 410 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 2: to get rid of it. And I said, mate, just 411 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:55,959 Speaker 2: pull it over where you are leave the keys in it, 412 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 2: close the door and walk away, just walk away. And 413 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:00,639 Speaker 2: he said, no, I need to not too hot, and 414 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 2: I need to get rid of it. I'm going to 415 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 2: torch it. And I said, no, you're not. You're not 416 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 2: going to touch it. He's never torched a car before, 417 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 2: and I said, no, you're not. I said, because that 418 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:11,920 Speaker 2: person's car has a chance of getting their car back 419 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,159 Speaker 2: in one piece if you just walk away. If you 420 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 2: torch that, you're destroying someone's car. So I try to 421 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:21,640 Speaker 2: try to help him do that. He eventually that day 422 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:23,440 Speaker 2: got arrested in that car. 423 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 1: Anyway, So when did he first get detention and what 424 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:31,160 Speaker 1: was your feelings about that he got locked up at 425 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 1: some point? Yeah, he did. 426 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,439 Speaker 2: It was a few months of me kind of I 427 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 2: was almost begging. I was. I was begging the police 428 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:41,719 Speaker 2: please please help him, and prosecutors, and he was in 429 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 2: court and we're fortunately got to. 430 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 1: You're begging for him to get it get out. You're 431 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:46,879 Speaker 1: begging for him. 432 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:49,119 Speaker 2: To go in, yes, because when he's in, I know 433 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:51,720 Speaker 2: he's safe and I know where he is. So back 434 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 2: in those early days, it was I wanted him in 435 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:57,159 Speaker 2: to stop him doing this crime and stop taking people's 436 00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:00,760 Speaker 2: cars and for him to have consequence, you know, because 437 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 2: there was just no consequences to anything he was doing. 438 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:07,919 Speaker 2: And finally he did get remanded for a two week stint, 439 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 2: and I was just devastated. I cried and cried and cried. 440 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 2: I couldn't believe he was, you know, after all of this, 441 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,680 Speaker 2: that he was actually going to go in. Unfortunately, when 442 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:21,920 Speaker 2: they go in, half of their friends are in there, 443 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:26,920 Speaker 2: so it's not really a bad place in their eyes. Yeah, 444 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 2: it's kind of they catch up with everyone. And the 445 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 2: magistrate we had the first time he was put in, 446 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:35,120 Speaker 2: and obviously she knew. I was quite relieved. She said 447 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:38,240 Speaker 2: to me, Unfortunately, it's one of the worst places for 448 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 2: them to be, which it is. I agree with that, 449 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:44,160 Speaker 2: she said. And for every person they meet in Romand 450 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:47,440 Speaker 2: is potentially another twenty new crimes on the outside when 451 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:51,440 Speaker 2: they all get back together. Cathy's Yeah, when I went, 452 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 2: I went to visit him the first time he was 453 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 2: in there, and in Parkville. Yeah, in Parkville, and I 454 00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 2: was sitting in the waiting area, and you know, I 455 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:02,639 Speaker 2: had to have ID and all these crazy tests and 456 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:04,920 Speaker 2: eye scans and all the rest of it done, And 457 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:06,919 Speaker 2: I was sitting there and I must have looked like 458 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 2: a deer in headlights because I just couldn't believe what 459 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 2: my life had come to. And there was another mum 460 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 2: there and she's just leant over and she said, I 461 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 2: was it your first time here? And I was kind 462 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 2: of like yeah, and she was like, oh, it won't 463 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 2: be your last, and I thought, yes, it will, it 464 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 2: will be. He's not coming back here. He's going to 465 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 2: you know, he's going to do the right thing. Now 466 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 2: where on our he's on his sixth time in there. 467 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 1: At that time in there? Now, how long is he serving? 468 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,200 Speaker 1: This time? He's on Remand because he rammed a police. 469 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:40,680 Speaker 2: Com he did he was charged on Monday with four 470 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:45,399 Speaker 2: counts of aggravated berg, four counts of theft of motor vehicle. 471 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,879 Speaker 2: And I can't ever remember the way they say it, 472 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:55,120 Speaker 2: but it was endangering emergency service person's car life, right. 473 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: Okay, So they'll take a pretty dim view of that, 474 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 1: the police will. But what the magistrates said and lawyers say, 475 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,200 Speaker 1: of course, there has some validity that you go inside 476 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: and it's a big petri dish of commonality and turns 477 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 1: bad kids, naughty kids into baggs, and bad kids become crooks, etc. However, 478 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 1: the flip side of that is for you is that 479 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 1: while they're outside doing things, they're risking other people's lives 480 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,400 Speaker 1: and their own lives. Absolutely, and you as a mother 481 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 1: and as a parent, thinking, well, it's not great in there, 482 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 1: but he's not doing drugs inside. But I know he 483 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,919 Speaker 1: always comes out looking better than he went in. Yes, 484 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,920 Speaker 1: and he's eating three squares a day, he's doing some 485 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 1: school work and going into a gym arrangement and doing 486 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 1: some exercise. He actually comes out a bit better than 487 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 1: he went in, which is often away with jail. See 488 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 1: people come out of jail, they're clean and shiny, and 489 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,719 Speaker 1: that's right, well muscled up, and after six months outside 490 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 1: they're not. 491 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 2: They're back to it. And that's my you know. While 492 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 2: I think any parent would want to say they want 493 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,920 Speaker 2: their child in there, but I want him in there 494 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,640 Speaker 2: to stop him endangering or hurting anyone in the community. 495 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:10,920 Speaker 2: I would never live with myself if someone got hurt 496 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:15,400 Speaker 2: by him, or also if he ends up killing himself 497 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 2: in as one of these high speed chasers. So lightly 498 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,440 Speaker 2: he went in. Now that the drug use has escalated 499 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,040 Speaker 2: so much, he went in. He did a stint for 500 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:24,679 Speaker 2: three months. 501 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:26,919 Speaker 1: He missed his own birthday. Yes, he missed your birthday. 502 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 2: His miss Mother's day, Father's Day. And when he went 503 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:33,160 Speaker 2: in he weighed thirty five kilos, thirty five kilos, thirty 504 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 2: five Yeah, he was so the suitcases. Yeah, he was 505 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 2: so unwell looking. And when he came out, he weighed 506 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:44,359 Speaker 2: I think he ended up weighing about fifty eight sixty 507 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,320 Speaker 2: heroes and kidding. He just was like a different kid. 508 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:50,399 Speaker 2: He was He looked healthy, he had color in his skin, 509 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 2: he'd been swimming, he'd been to the gym. He goes 510 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 2: to school when he's in there, he goes to school 511 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 2: and attends classes. And so he's then has been out 512 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 2: for two weeks since coming out from this three months day, 513 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:05,119 Speaker 2: he's been out two weeks. So he came out at 514 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 2: about sixty kilos. And when I saw him, I obviously 515 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:10,720 Speaker 2: haven't seen him much in those two weeks because he's 516 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 2: out and about. When I saw him at the police 517 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 2: on Monday, he's back down to about I want to say, 518 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,440 Speaker 2: probably forty maybe forty two kilos. 519 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 1: When was it the yacht you to take a picture 520 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:24,199 Speaker 1: and show him that he could see himself. 521 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, I walked into the police station on Monday and 522 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,320 Speaker 2: he said. I said to him, oh my, I just 523 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 2: instantly saw him and he always gives me a heart 524 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 2: and a kiss and love your mum. And I said, oh, mate, 525 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 2: look at you. You look terrible. You look awful. And 526 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 2: he said, oh, can you show me on your phone? 527 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,680 Speaker 2: And I showed him. I always hold my phone because 528 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 2: I'm never sure if he's going to try and ring 529 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,159 Speaker 2: someone or message someone. And I showed him the camera 530 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,159 Speaker 2: on my phone and he was like oh, and he 531 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,399 Speaker 2: kind of was turning his head back and forth and 532 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 2: he goes, oh, yeah, I look like a bit of 533 00:26:55,280 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 2: a junkie. That's what Ice does. And I was like realized, Yeah, 534 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 2: he's realizing others do. Yeah. And I've taken photos of 535 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 2: him each time he's been remanded, and so I can 536 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:12,200 Speaker 2: keep an eye on kind of track the changes in him. 537 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 2: And yeah, sometimes he's just skin and bone. 538 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 1: That's a visual thing that might be useful at some point. 539 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,879 Speaker 1: Look at this, that's right now, you said Williamstown. But 540 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 1: he's gone a long way in the other direction too. 541 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 1: He has Do you get a phone call from South Gippsland. 542 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,400 Speaker 2: Yes, I did. I got a call from one Faggy police, 543 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:34,200 Speaker 2: and when I answered it, he said whatever his name was, 544 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 2: and from one Faggy police and I said pardon and 545 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,800 Speaker 2: he said, oh sorry. I said no, no, I heard 546 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 2: what you said, but one faggy police and he said, oh, yeah, 547 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,640 Speaker 2: we've got a phone here we believe might be your son's. 548 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:46,960 Speaker 2: Do you know what the picture it might be? And 549 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,159 Speaker 2: I told him what the picture was and he said, oh, 550 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:51,720 Speaker 2: that's the phone we have. He's been involved in an 551 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,160 Speaker 2: aggravated burg and theftomotor vehicle down here. I just couldn't 552 00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:58,919 Speaker 2: believe it. I was just like what and that particular 553 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:02,399 Speaker 2: one he when I had contacted him a couple of 554 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 2: days later, my son he had told me about he 555 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 2: sore wrist and I said, what happened to your wrist? 556 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 1: You know? 557 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,640 Speaker 2: He was messaging me about it. He had jumped off 558 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 2: the second like the double story little veranda out the 559 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 2: front of a double story house onto the ground because 560 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:18,360 Speaker 2: the people in the home woke up to find them 561 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 2: in the house. So he jumped, dropped his phone and 562 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 2: also left his shoes behind because they'd fallen off on 563 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,640 Speaker 2: the jump. So the police also had all of those 564 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:28,399 Speaker 2: belongings which tied him to it. 565 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,360 Speaker 1: Tied him to it, so he's not a master criminal. 566 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,639 Speaker 2: No, no, I say to him often, you're the dumbest criminal. 567 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:34,919 Speaker 1: I know. 568 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,480 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, absolutely. 569 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:40,240 Speaker 1: And what do you think about that? Not thinking? 570 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:40,440 Speaker 2: Not? 571 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 1: You think? 572 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 2: No, he does. He's not old enough to think. He's 573 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:47,640 Speaker 2: too he's too young. And I constantly try. You know, 574 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 2: it's like talking to a brick wall, though, and sometimes 575 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 2: I've had to change my approach of how I talk 576 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 2: to him about things. And you know, I say to him, 577 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 2: I know you're not thinking about now, but I'm thinking 578 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,320 Speaker 2: about when you're twenty five and twenty six and an 579 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:05,080 Speaker 2: adult and you're doing all of these things now, but 580 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 2: it's just setting you up for jobs and everything. 581 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 1: Like he went well for a start. When he wants 582 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:13,960 Speaker 1: to get a head ticket one day and go to America, 583 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 1: that's right. I won't be able to go, that's right. 584 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 2: He's not good to leave the state now, that'll be that. 585 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, I have a relative who did silly 586 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 1: stuff when he was very young and he's now very 587 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 1: middle aged and respectable. Yeah, but can he go with 588 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 1: his American wife to America? He can't know because of 589 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:31,240 Speaker 1: one stupid thing. 590 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 2: That's right, and they just don't think of that now 591 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 2: five or something, And you know, I feel like I'm 592 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 2: I'm constantly trying to get my story heard, and I'm 593 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 2: trying to talk to people, and I speak to anyone 594 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:47,480 Speaker 2: that will listen. I don't think there's one person of 595 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 2: Parliament that hasn't got an email from me about everything. 596 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 2: And I just because I'm just one, I'm just one 597 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 2: of the parents of these kids. There are so many 598 00:29:58,400 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 2: kids doing this. 599 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 1: Looking for probably hundreds of mothers and hundreds. 600 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:08,720 Speaker 2: Because there's so many that this is happening too. And sadly, 601 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 2: during this whole journey, I have met two mums in 602 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 2: particular that are so so similar to me, and they 603 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 2: just don't know what to do anymore, and their kids 604 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 2: are doing the same thing, and we're just at a loss. 605 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:22,959 Speaker 2: You know, there are lots of parents out there that 606 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 2: enable a lot of this behavior and allow a lot 607 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 2: of it. But the parents that don't want it to 608 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 2: happen and are trying to stop it, there's just. 609 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 1: Help sweat up in it. Yeah, yeah, I mean, and 610 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 1: it's very hard to make generalizations. Yes, yeah, you and 611 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 1: your husband and model citizens, I presume the rest of 612 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 1: the family. Yes, yeah, sort of rack bag kid. Among 613 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 1: his friends, there are other kids like himself. Yes, yes, 614 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:53,239 Speaker 1: you've told me about one that's right, whose parents you 615 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 1: think are much like yourself. Yes, and they're pulling their 616 00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 1: hair out. Where do we go? 617 00:30:58,080 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 3: Right? 618 00:30:58,800 --> 00:30:59,479 Speaker 1: What's going on? 619 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 2: And just don't know what to do? 620 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 3: Yeah. 621 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 1: So it's not as if you know, they're all being 622 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 1: produced by they're not being abused and I brought up 623 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:11,240 Speaker 1: in very poor dire circumstances and all the rest of it. Yes, 624 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 1: that's not true of all. 625 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,960 Speaker 2: Of them, that's right. And my son's aware of that too. 626 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 2: He knows, he knows the good families and the bad families. 627 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,480 Speaker 2: And I think I said to you yesterday, I asked 628 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 2: him about one of his friends, and I said, you know, 629 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:28,200 Speaker 2: are his parents? Are his parents good people? And it 630 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 2: was really nice to hear my son say to me, yeah, Mom, 631 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 2: his parents are just like you and dad. They're really 632 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,720 Speaker 2: good people. That's when I reached out to this particular 633 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 2: family and I met with her and she was she 634 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:41,479 Speaker 2: was just like me, And it was just like listening 635 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 2: to my own story. And it's kind of strangely weird 636 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:48,480 Speaker 2: that you take a bit of comfort in knowing that 637 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 2: there's another family or too in particular that I know 638 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 2: of that are going through the same thing. 639 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 1: Ye're not a freak. 640 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:57,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, we're not just this random kid that's gone off 641 00:31:57,960 --> 00:31:58,520 Speaker 2: the rails. 642 00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:02,080 Speaker 1: No, it's a shed thing to some extent. You're in 643 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 1: here today talking to maybe one hundred thousand people something 644 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 1: like that, and you're telling them what it's really like 645 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:14,040 Speaker 1: from where you sit stand. You've got a message for them, 646 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,360 Speaker 1: or for the politicians, for these senior police. Yeah, what 647 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:18,080 Speaker 1: are your thoughts? 648 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,040 Speaker 2: Like I've always said with anyone I talked to, the 649 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 2: police are just amazing. They're so supportive of me. They 650 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:28,160 Speaker 2: helped me incredibly, and we're engaged now with a crime 651 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,200 Speaker 2: reduction team and the two people that run that are 652 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:33,360 Speaker 2: just always checking in on me. And it might even 653 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 2: just be checking on me. It's not anything to do 654 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:37,600 Speaker 2: with him. It's just checking in if I'm okay. 655 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 1: That's good. 656 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 2: And I've got some local members of parliament that helped 657 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 2: me out and keep in contact and talk to me. 658 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,960 Speaker 2: And I met with Peter Dutton two weeks ago and 659 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:50,840 Speaker 2: told him the story, and I just you know, it's 660 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,320 Speaker 2: easy to sit and watch the news, and I was 661 00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:57,040 Speaker 2: watching the news and I was seeing these kids, and 662 00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 2: I'm like, where are their parents? They're just bloody braw, 663 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 2: you know, I said. But now I'm living this, it's 664 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:07,760 Speaker 2: so easy to say, where are the parents? Because we 665 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 2: were those parents that we made sure he was safe 666 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:12,120 Speaker 2: at home. He was you know, he had a good life, 667 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:15,560 Speaker 2: he had a great upbringing. But where those parents that 668 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:17,959 Speaker 2: we don't know now where he is and we've got 669 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,920 Speaker 2: no control over it. And it's just I just want 670 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,840 Speaker 2: to try and make it seem that it's not always. 671 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:28,200 Speaker 2: They're not always coming from neglectful for homes or neglectful 672 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 2: families or bad parenting. Sometimes they're really good kids. And 673 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 2: deep down he is a good kid. And I hope 674 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,200 Speaker 2: and I pray daily that he will turn around and 675 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:41,560 Speaker 2: he will come back. And all of my friends and 676 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,240 Speaker 2: family say he'll come back, don't worry, you know, you've 677 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:46,600 Speaker 2: got this. He'll come back. But it's hard to see 678 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,480 Speaker 2: that at the time. It's hard to see anywhere past. 679 00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:52,240 Speaker 2: You know, I'm already now stressing about the next two weeks, 680 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,080 Speaker 2: like what's going to happen in two weeks time? 681 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 1: Yes, first of all, he has to survive. 682 00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 2: Yes that's right. Then, Yes, that's it exactly and I 683 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,080 Speaker 2: just feel like every time he's released from from a 684 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:08,319 Speaker 2: prison stay, there's nothing set up for him. Like Crime 685 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:10,440 Speaker 2: Reduction Team was saying to me yesterday when I was 686 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,080 Speaker 2: talking to them, almost he's being set up for failure 687 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:16,520 Speaker 2: because there's not enough in place for when he comes out. 688 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 2: If they don't bail him on bail conditions, which he 689 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,560 Speaker 2: doesn't abide by anyway, if there's nothing in place for him, 690 00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,200 Speaker 2: he just goes back to doing what he's doing. So 691 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:29,440 Speaker 2: I really need things in place for him when he's released, 692 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:32,840 Speaker 2: whether that be a rehabilitation program he's admitted now to 693 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:36,560 Speaker 2: having an addiction to ice, a rehabilitation program or something 694 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:38,960 Speaker 2: that he has to go to every single day and 695 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:42,560 Speaker 2: check in and say here I am, and do the test, 696 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:46,680 Speaker 2: do a test, et something, you know something. 697 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,840 Speaker 1: You've got to stick to it, yim. 698 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,480 Speaker 2: Because that's the problem. There's no consequences for these kids. 699 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:53,680 Speaker 2: You see it on the news every night, six arrested, 700 00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:57,440 Speaker 2: but five arrested already on bail released. 701 00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,640 Speaker 1: You know, it's just in your view, would be better 702 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:04,600 Speaker 1: to use facilities and lock them up, even though it's 703 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:07,799 Speaker 1: an imperfect solution. Yes, it's better than just running them 704 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:08,400 Speaker 1: back onto the stop. 705 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:11,360 Speaker 2: Absolutely, I would prefer him going into some sort of 706 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:14,279 Speaker 2: program where he was you know, there's some places I 707 00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:15,840 Speaker 2: think in New South Wales. I haven't been out to 708 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,320 Speaker 2: find one in Melbourne, but kind of like a boot camp, 709 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:20,759 Speaker 2: you know, where they've got to get up and they've 710 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 2: got to work. But there's nothing here that is available 711 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:28,239 Speaker 2: for him to do that. And if I considered the 712 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:29,840 Speaker 2: New South Wales one, but I have to have a 713 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,160 Speaker 2: residence there to be able to happen. There. 714 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 1: There's an opening for someone. 715 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,520 Speaker 2: There is, that's right. Absolutely, the I think it's such 716 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:39,320 Speaker 2: a long prison is sitting empty. 717 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 1: There is a prison down there's an opening for sort 718 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:46,360 Speaker 1: of some very tough ex military guys, yes, running. 719 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:49,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, and just maybe to have more of that rehabilitation 720 00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,600 Speaker 2: side of things. Yeah, that's what I'm hoping for. 721 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,080 Speaker 1: Well, that is so kind of you to share that. 722 00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:59,920 Speaker 1: What is a very grievous story from you to tell you, 723 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,040 Speaker 1: being very frank, very fair and very friendly, you're not 724 00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:06,920 Speaker 1: really blaming anyone except no in a sense. In a 725 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:09,719 Speaker 1: sense you're blaming your son and others around him. 726 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:10,640 Speaker 2: Yeah. 727 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:13,720 Speaker 1: But as you said, if kids of their own age 728 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,640 Speaker 1: were put together so they're not in with older, more 729 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:21,560 Speaker 1: hardened people that that would be preferable, had them off 730 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:25,080 Speaker 1: the street, like a sort of a tough boarding school 731 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:26,319 Speaker 1: with a lock on the door. 732 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:28,960 Speaker 2: Yes, that's right, exactly, something like that, that we're just 733 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:33,560 Speaker 2: and just having some services available to them in there. 734 00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,920 Speaker 2: Often he'll sit there if there's no school, or if 735 00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:39,760 Speaker 2: he goes in on at school holidays there's no school, 736 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:44,440 Speaker 2: so he often just spends his day playing a PlayStation 737 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,720 Speaker 2: or watching TV, you know, instead of I would prefer 738 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:51,760 Speaker 2: him having maybe some mental health help, some psychology, maybe 739 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:56,120 Speaker 2: some counseling things like that, some drug and alcohol rehabilitation. 740 00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:58,719 Speaker 2: But a lot of that's not offered in there at 741 00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:02,000 Speaker 2: the moment, and they're quite understaffed as well, apparently, so 742 00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:03,640 Speaker 2: it's hard for them, which I get. 743 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:07,239 Speaker 1: So yeah, tricky, yeah it is. But you don't see 744 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:10,120 Speaker 1: him as somebody who's got a mental illness. No, really, 745 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,920 Speaker 1: he does silly things and self destructive things, but you 746 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,480 Speaker 1: see him as someone who's addicted not only to the 747 00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:18,400 Speaker 1: drugs he takes, but to the adrenaline. 748 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:22,439 Speaker 2: Yes, he's addicted to crime, I think, yes, Yeah, he's 749 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:24,319 Speaker 2: addicted to the thrill and he so. 750 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:28,880 Speaker 1: If he were parachuting or you know, doing wild extreme sports. Yeah, 751 00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:30,040 Speaker 1: that might fill the gap. 752 00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:32,000 Speaker 2: Yes, I said to him last time he got out, 753 00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:33,640 Speaker 2: I said, do you want to go? What do you 754 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:35,400 Speaker 2: want to do? Mate? Like, I'll take you somewhere. Do 755 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:37,279 Speaker 2: you want to go in a I said, I'll take 756 00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:39,680 Speaker 2: you to Phillip Parlam. We'll raced around the with the 757 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:42,640 Speaker 2: those fast cardsitars or whatever. He was like, oh no, 758 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,279 Speaker 2: because I like driving. And I was like, okay, well, 759 00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:48,319 Speaker 2: what if I said, jump out of a plane every day? 760 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:49,800 Speaker 2: I'll pay for you to jump out of a plane 761 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:53,000 Speaker 2: every single day. And so we ended up deciding we'd 762 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,560 Speaker 2: go to Gunby World because there was roller coasters and 763 00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:57,080 Speaker 2: things like that, and I thought, great, I'll chuck him 764 00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,160 Speaker 2: on a roller coaster all day. And we had planned 765 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:00,400 Speaker 2: it all and I was going to hate one of 766 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,640 Speaker 2: his friends with him. And when I got there, when 767 00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:05,640 Speaker 2: I got to the day, I couldn't find where he was. 768 00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:09,680 Speaker 2: He was out and about, more than likely in a 769 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:13,319 Speaker 2: stolen car, and so I didn't we didn't get to 770 00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:16,239 Speaker 2: take him there, right, Yeah. 771 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:19,560 Speaker 1: You can try, that's right, yep. And you're still trying. 772 00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 2: Still trying, and I'll have to give up. 773 00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:25,120 Speaker 1: Well well done you. And he's so kind of you 774 00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:27,319 Speaker 1: to come and talk to us. Thank you, and we 775 00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:31,400 Speaker 1: hope that he sends happily and that it ends happily 776 00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:33,680 Speaker 1: for a lot of other people. Yes, and also that 777 00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:37,759 Speaker 1: it draws attention to what is a growing problem everybody. 778 00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:40,400 Speaker 1: I was talking to my own wife an hour and 779 00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:42,680 Speaker 1: a half ago, and guess what is when a home 780 00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:44,240 Speaker 1: invasion in X Street? 781 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:45,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. 782 00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:47,920 Speaker 1: It's everywhere a few meters from where we live. 783 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:49,279 Speaker 2: Every day. 784 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:51,760 Speaker 1: You hear about it in every postcard. 785 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,080 Speaker 2: And they do it in broad daylight now too sometimes, 786 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:55,680 Speaker 2: so it's terrifying. 787 00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,160 Speaker 1: It is. Thank you so much, Thank you for having me, 788 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:01,000 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. 789 00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:04,440 Speaker 3: Life and Crimes is a Sunday Herald Sun production for 790 00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:09,800 Speaker 3: true crime Australia. Our producer is Johnty Burton. For my columns, 791 00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:14,440 Speaker 3: features and more, go to Heraldsun dot com dot Au, 792 00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:20,120 Speaker 3: forward slash Andrew rule one word. For advertising inquiries, go 793 00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:25,040 Speaker 3: to news Podcasts sold at news dot com dot au. 794 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:30,719 Speaker 3: That is all one word news podcast's sold. And if 795 00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:35,120 Speaker 3: you want further information about this episode, links are in 796 00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:36,120 Speaker 3: the description.