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Speaker 1: Yesterday the Premier made an announcement regarding consultation underway now

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Speaker 1: the state government proposal to ban children under the age

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Speaker 1: of fourteen from accessing social media. Now, I think this

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Speaker 1: is a good move. Keep kids off it till at

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Speaker 1: least fourteen. You might want to argue that's too low

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Speaker 1: as well, but at least fourteen. And a report by

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Speaker 1: a former Chief Justice of the High Court, Robert French,

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Speaker 1: has been released outsiding how the legislation would be framed,

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Speaker 1: and we can all have our say on that. There's

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Speaker 1: a lot of issues to unpack in that and I'm

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Speaker 1: all for it. But let's have a chat with Caroline

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Speaker 1: di Fiore, who is clinical psychologist at Developing Minds. Carolin,

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Speaker 1: good morning.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, thank you, thank you for your time.

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Speaker 1: Now is this likely to work? Kids being kids? They'd

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Speaker 1: find a way around a ban, wouldn't they.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting to say that because I have read research

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Speaker 2: that's saying that, you know, half of kids aged eight

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Speaker 2: to twelve are on social media and that's despite the

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Speaker 2: minim age for lots of platforms being thirteen. So it

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Speaker 2: makes sense that people are wondering if it will be

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Speaker 2: it will be effective, and also I've read research where

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Speaker 2: young people are interviewed and they expect that if there

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Speaker 2: are restrictions in place, they're expecting their peers to navigate

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Speaker 2: around them and still use social media. And this is

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Speaker 2: quite a topic that we talk about a lot with

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Speaker 2: families as psychologists in the clinic, and it is quite

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Speaker 2: a source of tension for families offen coming to us

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Speaker 2: with lots of concern and overwhelm about how to manage it,

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Speaker 2: sometimes using over controlling approaches which they're finding out ineffective,

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Speaker 2: and so our work as really around trying to get

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Speaker 2: more collaborative approach abound, encouraging teenage autonomy, which can be

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Speaker 2: really important for their well being, but to be able

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Speaker 2: to work together, to be able to use social media

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Speaker 2: more effectively and positively, and set limits in place that

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Speaker 2: are actually working.

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Speaker 1: What are parents looking for when they come to you.

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Speaker 1: Is it the child being on social media, laid into

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Speaker 1: the night into the early morning? Is it bullied on

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Speaker 1: social media? Is that the content they're seeing? What are

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Speaker 1: the concerns.

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Speaker 2: All of them? Really? We are seeing excessive social media use,

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Speaker 2: so that is getting in the way of positive, healthy behaviors,

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Speaker 2: things like study and sleep, physical exercise, hobbies, time with families,

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Speaker 2: but also social media can lead to unwanted and inappropriate,

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Speaker 2: unsafe experiences. So it's quite a combination of factors that

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Speaker 2: that parents are concerned with. And we know there's significant

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Speaker 2: bodies of research thing that over all social media is

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Speaker 2: associated with poor and mental health outcome. Parents are aware

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Speaker 2: of his parents are seeing the impact and so they

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Speaker 2: are wanting wanting to have a solution for it. But

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Speaker 2: at the same time we are having conversations that there

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Speaker 2: are also benefits of social media use for young people

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Speaker 2: and so it's tough to balance it all out.

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Speaker 1: Okay, the future moves then. I mean kids, as we know,

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Speaker 1: they're pressure that there's peer pressure. So if somebody in

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Speaker 1: the class finds a way around it, I suppose then

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Speaker 1: if a child isn't on it, prevented from being on it,

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Speaker 1: they're going to feel left out. You get the issues

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Speaker 1: then of that around being neglected and even for that

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Speaker 1: being bullied at school that they're not on it, they

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Speaker 1: haven't found their way to hook around the system. So

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Speaker 1: there's swings of roundabouts.

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Speaker 2: For sure, and young people social media is something that

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Speaker 2: they really value that it is a way that they

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Speaker 2: can keep in touch with their friends that they are

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Speaker 2: receiving support, They're feeling more connected to what's going on

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Speaker 2: in their lives of their friends. So there's all these

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Speaker 2: things that they thought they'll be missing out on, and

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Speaker 2: I think it is particularly interesting to see how it

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Speaker 2: plays out if there's parental consent for the fourteen and

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Speaker 2: fifteen year olds. If I think that's where as a

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Speaker 2: clinical psychologist, my work will be with families when they're

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Speaker 2: trying to navigate their young people wanting their consent to

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Speaker 2: be able to use social media and being able to

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Speaker 2: work out how to manage that, what limits to put

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Speaker 2: in place, And so my role will be really working

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Speaker 2: on how to have those club of conversations, but also

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Speaker 2: educating young people and families with how to mitigate the

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Speaker 2: risks learning a safe and responsible social media, being cautious

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Speaker 2: about the content, limiting their exposure, both types of things.

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Speaker 1: It's a different world, isn't that. I'm so glad in hindsight,

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Speaker 1: you know, and as an older person these days, you

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Speaker 1: think what would life have been like as a twelve, thirteen, fourteen,

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Speaker 1: even fifteen, sixteen year old with social media with a

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Speaker 1: mobile phone in my handback in the early nineteen eighties,

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Speaker 1: cheir would have been a scarier time to navigate life.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if we relate it as well as

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Speaker 1: we know, seeing our kids on phones all the time.

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Speaker 2: It certainly feel like it would have been scary with

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Speaker 2: much more access to social media. Yeah, for young people

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Speaker 2: it feels safe, so less isolating to be connected.

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Speaker 1: So both sides, Yeah, yeah, indeed, all right, So anything

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Speaker 1: you'd like to see in this legislation, Carolyn, specifically that

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Speaker 1: you think should be an absolute must in going down

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Speaker 1: this path.

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Speaker 2: I think my focus is a clinical psychologist is more on,

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Speaker 2: regardless of what the legislation is, showing that my role

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Speaker 2: with families will be really important. And you still continuing

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Speaker 2: around our education, safe, responsible use of social media, how

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Speaker 2: to manage time on the manage their experiences and content,

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Speaker 2: and working with families who navigating this is truly such

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Speaker 2: a common topic or families that are seeking out a

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Speaker 2: clinical psychologist.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I imagine your advice is that of the ages

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Speaker 1: really as parents should set limits and boundaries for children,

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Speaker 1: which for whatever reason appears to becoming harder for people

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Speaker 1: to do. And I don't know if that's the world

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Speaker 1: we live in in terms of the accessibility of everything

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Speaker 1: through devices, and perhaps that's part of it, but it

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Speaker 1: seems to me to be really crucial in that. Would

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Speaker 1: you agree with that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess, and doing that in a really collaborative approach,

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Speaker 2: like I said, encouraging that teenage autonomy. We know that

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Speaker 2: this is where those printal approaches can be more effective

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Speaker 2: rather than sometimes there's over controlling approaches. So being able

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Speaker 2: to have that open communication about things like social media,

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Speaker 2: be able to get a young person's input on that

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Speaker 2: as well, certainly we see approach to be more successful

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Speaker 2: in that way.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. It would be difficult for a parent though, to

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Speaker 1: set those boundaries and have that chat when their own

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Speaker 1: nose is buried in front of the phone. As well.

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Speaker 2: It can be for parents to have those conversations too,

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Speaker 2: especially when thoughts and feelings behind those conversations as well

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Speaker 2: are things like anxiety and concern and worry and even

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Speaker 2: doubt taken me, doubt about am I doing the right thing?

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Speaker 2: It is just the right approach. I think. There's lots

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Speaker 2: of information out there, it can make it very confusing

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Speaker 2: from out the gate.

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Speaker 1: Okay, all right, appreciate your time, Carolyn, Thank you for

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Speaker 1: coming on.

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Speaker 2: Thank you thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: Matthew Carolyn D. Foray, a clinical psychologist at Developing Minds,

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Speaker 1: on the social media ban for kids up to the

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Speaker 1: age of fourteen. As you heard the premiere on five

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Speaker 1: Double a Breakfast, explain why he thinks this is absolutely important.

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Speaker 1: I don't disagree with word of that. I think it

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Speaker 1: is too, but I reckon policing it ultimately is going

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Speaker 1: to be the hard part. And you can imagine social

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Speaker 1: media companies. A premier saying to Dave and Willed that

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Speaker 1: he expects there will be some sort of challenge in

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Speaker 1: the future once this gets up and running from the

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Speaker 1: facebooks of the world TikTok and all of that you

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Speaker 1: on TikTok, I don't know if I want to see

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Speaker 1: dance moves. Well, I don't know what I'll do. I

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Speaker 1: don't really want to see dance moves. I suppose so

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Speaker 1: not on it. But that's all it seems to be.

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Speaker 1: Is you know the ones that float over onto other

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Speaker 1: media like Insta or Facebook or even Twitter. Whenever at

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Speaker 1: TikTok surfaces, it seems to be someone dancing. It's a

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Speaker 1: use for anything else. I don't know, singing, I suppose

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Speaker 1: or attempts to yeah, not great,