WEBVTT - Solving murders with sticky tape: Gordon Drage Pt.1 0:00:01.880 --> 0:00:04.880 The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:07.800 Detective see a side of life. The average person is 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:11.119 never exposed her I spent thirty four years as a cop. 0:00:11.560 --> 0:00:14.040 For twenty five of those years, I was catching killers. 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:16.200 That's what I did for a living. I was a 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:20.560 homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead, 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:23.120 I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:26.400 The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:28.760 from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:31.440 and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:34.640 of the content and language might be confronting. That's because 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:37.640 no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:46.159 Join me now as I take you into this world. Today, 0:00:46.479 --> 0:00:49.280 I sat down had a chat with recently retired cop 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:53.400 Gordon Drage. As a crime scene officer, Gordon attended numerous 0:00:53.479 --> 0:00:58.240 murder scenes, drug plantations, and horrific situations such as the 0:00:58.320 --> 0:01:02.000 Dream World tragedy all people died on a theme park 0:01:02.120 --> 0:01:06.440 ride and the Sea World helicopter crash, where two helicopters 0:01:06.440 --> 0:01:11.080 collided midair, killing four passengers. We talked about car chases, 0:01:11.440 --> 0:01:16.120 arresting arm offenders, the time he got shot at, domestic violence, matters, 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:19.480 sexual assaults, and a whole lot more. It's everything you'd 0:01:19.520 --> 0:01:22.800 expect a police officer to experience after working in South 0:01:22.840 --> 0:01:26.959 Australia and Queensland Police for thirty six years. We also 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:29.120 spoke about what it was like when he opened the 0:01:29.160 --> 0:01:32.959 first of several barrels containing body parts in the notorious 0:01:33.000 --> 0:01:35.959 Bodies in the Barrel case in South Australia where twelve 0:01:35.959 --> 0:01:38.759 people were murdered, six of which were put in barrels. 0:01:39.800 --> 0:01:42.199 Gordon saw a lot of horrendous things in his career, 0:01:42.600 --> 0:01:45.520 and we also spoke about his own mental breakdown, his 0:01:45.720 --> 0:01:49.080 recovery and what he's doing now supporting the first responders 0:01:49.240 --> 0:01:52.520 and their families. He's had an amazing career and this 0:01:52.640 --> 0:01:56.640 is Gordon's story. Gordon Drage, welcome to I Catch Killers. 0:01:56.800 --> 0:01:58.280 Thank you very much, pleasure to be here. 0:01:58.400 --> 0:02:01.600 Well, I always sitting down, I always enjoy I should say, 0:02:01.600 --> 0:02:06.200 sitting down talking to cops and recently retired cop. When 0:02:06.240 --> 0:02:06.840 did you get out? 0:02:07.560 --> 0:02:10.200 Just over two years and March of twenty three was 0:02:10.240 --> 0:02:10.760 money in date? 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:12.959 How you finding life outside? 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:16.480 Busy? This retirement stuff is busy as let me tell you. 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:20.080 Yeah, well, you retired from Queensland Cops and they've got 0:02:20.120 --> 0:02:23.000 a mandatory retirement at sixty. Yes. 0:02:23.160 --> 0:02:25.040 Yeah, So once I turned sixty at midnight on my 0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:27.640 sixtieth birthday, I lost all my magic powers apparently, and 0:02:27.639 --> 0:02:30.640 I was no good to anyone out. 0:02:30.680 --> 0:02:33.359 Yeah, I forget that experience. It's funny because I don't 0:02:33.400 --> 0:02:34.959 think it is anywhere else in the country. 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:36.880 I think it's only place in the world. Yeah, it's 0:02:36.919 --> 0:02:39.560 still the most bizarre thing I'm aware of. But they 0:02:39.600 --> 0:02:42.560 lose hundreds and they're suffering a real crisis now because 0:02:42.600 --> 0:02:45.560 there are hundreds of police of my age or coming 0:02:45.639 --> 0:02:47.960 up to my age that have got to go. So 0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:50.760 they're having a massive recruiting issue there and their experience 0:02:50.840 --> 0:02:51.919 is just flooding out the door. 0:02:52.080 --> 0:02:54.640 There's a lot of that experience that you talk about. 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:59.079 You can't underplay the importance of the experience. We haven't 0:02:59.120 --> 0:03:02.560 had a a good car chase story on my catch 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:05.880 Kills for a long time. In prepping for this, there 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:08.880 was a reference to the car chase that you're involved in. 0:03:08.960 --> 0:03:10.519 Do you want to just tell us about that. 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:14.600 Early in my career, probably my first twelve months, I 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:17.080 reckon it was probably a praation constable. I'm stationed at 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:21.360 Gauler outside Adelaide. We get the radio call someone shooting 0:03:21.360 --> 0:03:25.000 as sheep in the area there. So out we go 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:27.120 on the dirt roads and the back blocks of gawler, 0:03:27.360 --> 0:03:30.080 sheet paddocks everywhere, and we can see across the paddocks 0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:32.359 there's this plume of dust coming out. Sure there's a 0:03:32.400 --> 0:03:35.320 car moving. Maybe that's our man. Off we go, let's 0:03:35.360 --> 0:03:37.720 pull him up, trying to intercept him. But no, off 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:40.920 he goes, So maybe he's our man. He starts to 0:03:41.000 --> 0:03:42.880 take off. So we're just following this plume of dust, 0:03:43.120 --> 0:03:45.280 and through the dust we come. And at one point 0:03:45.280 --> 0:03:47.480 he's turning corners left and right, and he does get 0:03:47.480 --> 0:03:49.640 to one corner and loses control and he spins a 0:03:49.720 --> 0:03:51.280 book straight into the chitch on the left side of 0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:54.560 the road. So we get out, guns drawn and take 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:55.839 him out the car. And he said, I'm really sorry. 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:58.040 I'm really sorry. I didn't hit any when they die. Well, go, 0:03:58.400 --> 0:04:01.200 what are you talking about, oh, I said, Well, he said, 0:04:01.600 --> 0:04:03.400 I don't know what got into me. Said, I just 0:04:03.480 --> 0:04:05.160 put the gun out the window, put a couple of 0:04:05.160 --> 0:04:08.920 shots back towards you. When we had no idea. Thankful 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:11.760 he didn hit us. But then we said, how does 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:14.680 this happen? What do you to do? So we went 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:16.800 back and retraced our steps, and sure enough there was 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:18.480 his twenty two rifle lying at the side the road. 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:20.400 He started out the window and we just haven't seen 0:04:20.440 --> 0:04:21.200 it in the plume of smoke. 0:04:21.320 --> 0:04:23.960 So he's leaving shots that you avoid the rest for 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:25.440 foreign shots. 0:04:25.080 --> 0:04:26.920 We charged him with the lot. 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:30.760 Well, how do you go at the court? That's that's 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:32.120 a very serious offense. 0:04:32.120 --> 0:04:34.480 I think he pleaded guilty. I never I never went 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:36.360 to court on it, so okay, he must have been. 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:38.760 But it was just but I think that I was saying, now, 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:40.400 does it count as being shot at if you don't know? 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:44.400 Well, I suppose if you're too stupid to know, that's 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:48.640 not that's right. Except you, I'm probably glad you didn't didn't. 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:50.839 Know, probably just as well. Yeah, we may have to 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:51.320 shoot back. 0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:56.720 That's and we talked about policing, and it's a tough, 0:04:56.839 --> 0:04:59.839 tough gig. The thing about policing the intensity you can go. 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:02.760 There's always you're always hyper alert, aren't you, Because you 0:05:02.800 --> 0:05:05.520 can be driving, as you said, out on a country road, 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:08.600 enjoying yourself having a conversation with your work partner at 0:05:08.600 --> 0:05:10.039 the time, and all of a sudden it can go 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:13.920 from that to something intense, very much. I don't think 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:16.720 the public fully appreciate no. 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:19.640 I remember another while we're talking firearms again in my 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:21.120 early part of my career, before it even gone to 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:22.640 gall So we're talking in the first three or four 0:05:22.640 --> 0:05:26.440 months of my career. I'm very, very green. Out of 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:30.320 the academy. We have gone to a job. Two crews 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:33.960 have gone. Mum says, the son's lost the plot. He's 0:05:34.040 --> 0:05:38.880 having a mental episode, he's misbehaving badly. He's got a firearm. 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:40.800 So we pull up at the address and that's why 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:43.159 two crews have gone. We meet mum at the front 0:05:43.200 --> 0:05:46.560 door at the gate and near letter boxing. It's okay, 0:05:46.760 --> 0:05:48.520 he's got a gun in there. It's a twenty two, 0:05:48.560 --> 0:05:51.400 but it doesn't actually have the bolt thing in that. 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:54.200 He can't load it, so you know, he's not got 0:05:54.200 --> 0:05:55.760 a loaded fararm. But he's just got this gun he's 0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:58.800 waving around. So then we go and we find him 0:05:58.800 --> 0:06:00.599 in the city in the bedroom and there's this screaming 0:06:00.640 --> 0:06:03.240 girlfriend in the corner off to one side. She's just 0:06:03.320 --> 0:06:05.799 howling in the feetal position in the corner just outside 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:09.560 the room, but we can't get to her. And looking, 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:11.120 he said, lying on the bed, and he's got a 0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:14.000 bloody shotgun because that's not twenty two. There's a big 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:15.720 difference beween it. As you would know, there's a big 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:18.320 difference between a twenty two and a shotgun. Change and 0:06:18.400 --> 0:06:21.240 we're going, okay, my mum says, he's got no way 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:24.400 of leading. So there was four of us there, all 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:26.760 got guns drawn, and not one of us has shot him, 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:28.359 and he's pointing this thing at us, and he's threatening 0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:30.880 her to kill us, and all of a sudden afterwards, 0:06:30.960 --> 0:06:32.560 it was one of those bizarre things you go through 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:34.600 your training. So many points a gun at you. I'm 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:36.400 going to shoot them before they shoot me, and not 0:06:36.400 --> 0:06:37.279 one of us pulled the trigger. 0:06:37.320 --> 0:06:37.839 That tom. 0:06:38.080 --> 0:06:40.159 We eventually resolved it, and when we did find the 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:42.000 twenty two that mum was talking about, it had the 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:43.760 bolt in it, It just didn't little the handle. He 0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:45.719 just had a screwdriver so he was able to load it. 0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:48.080 To the moral stories to any new police that might 0:06:48.120 --> 0:06:50.880 be listening, do never trust, never trust what mum tells you. 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:52.760 Everything's going to be as it seems, and don't go 0:06:52.839 --> 0:06:54.600 in with a preconceived idea that you're not dealing with 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:56.240 a load of weapon because she said it can't be. 0:06:56.720 --> 0:07:00.000 It's difficult, isn't it. And those split second decisions, and 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:03.080 unless you're there, you can't. And you see people where 0:07:03.120 --> 0:07:05.840 they are involved in shooting incidents and there's a lot 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:08.320 of judgment on did they do the right thing, didn't 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:11.960 they do the right thing? And they're split second decisions. 0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:13.840 And all this stuff. Why didn't they shoot him in 0:07:13.840 --> 0:07:16.240 the Legally, police do not think that good a shot. 0:07:16.360 --> 0:07:18.280 I've been on the firing range, had my target hit 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:21.320 by one of my colleagues. You know, there's some of 0:07:21.320 --> 0:07:23.840 them really poor shots. And if police shoot something in 0:07:23.880 --> 0:07:24.960 the leg it's usually by accident. 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:28.040 Well, I think, and I speak to a lot of 0:07:28.080 --> 0:07:31.560 people that are caught up. And as a homicide detective, 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:34.840 we had to oversee critical incidents. So if police shoot, 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:38.520 shoot and kill someone or someone dies in the police operation. 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:43.280 But really the training we get is police in firearm use. 0:07:43.360 --> 0:07:46.120 Unless you're in a specialist tactical squad or whatever where 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:49.480 you're shooting more regularly, it's not not enough. Really. 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:52.680 I know some people I worked with it, they hated it. 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:54.640 I mean they would avoid it like the plague if 0:07:54.640 --> 0:07:57.920 they could. And others myself include I didn't mind it. 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:00.240 You don't get enough. I mean I don't want what 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:04.360 the limits are now, But ninety rounds a year or something. Yeah, 0:08:04.920 --> 0:08:08.120 and that's usually structured over one day or a couple of. 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:10.640 Days, over a day, and then it can be two 0:08:10.720 --> 0:08:14.120 years between your training day or your qualification and the 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:15.480 next time you do it, because you've got to do 0:08:15.520 --> 0:08:17.080 it in the calendar calendar year. 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:17.480 That's right. 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:21.680 But yeah, I've often thought that that we need more 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:24.960 training and then throwing the tasers, throwing the OC spray 0:08:25.040 --> 0:08:27.560 and everything else that comes in the play. There's a 0:08:27.600 --> 0:08:29.440 lot of decisions to make that it should be a 0:08:29.520 --> 0:08:33.520 muscle reflex and training once a week doesn't create that. 0:08:33.800 --> 0:08:35.959 No, Well, we were having training, I think we get 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:38.040 once a year. We'd have a three day block. First 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:40.480 day would be maybe a bit of legal stuff, and 0:08:40.559 --> 0:08:43.600 then you'd be doing your hands a hand, handcuffing techniques, 0:08:43.679 --> 0:08:48.040 whatever's topical at the time, trying to disarm. Then tasers. 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:50.000 The group would do taser for one half of the 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:52.240 shift and the others would be on the range doing 0:08:52.240 --> 0:08:54.520 the shooting, and then you swap over at lunchtime. So 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:56.880 then whoever's doing was doing the live fire in the 0:08:56.880 --> 0:08:58.800 morning will do the taser in the afternoon, and that 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:01.000 was it. That's it then for as you say, potentially 0:09:01.080 --> 0:09:03.600 eighteen months at least before you get around again if 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:03.960 need be. 0:09:04.120 --> 0:09:06.560 And the difference, like I did tactical policing where you're 0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:09.960 shooting a minimum once a month or if not more, 0:09:10.440 --> 0:09:13.000 and you could also sit on the range and just 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:16.840 fire rounds off and so you felt comfortable with the firearm. 0:09:16.880 --> 0:09:20.040 But yeah, I think that is something that could could 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:23.920 be improved in policing. What about most people when they 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:28.840 talk about bear experiences early days in uniform domestic violence 0:09:28.920 --> 0:09:31.920 situations gow into domestics, Was that something that you were 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:32.640 confronted with? 0:09:32.800 --> 0:09:35.200 Oh yeah, all the time. Because I was working in 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:39.320 the northern sumbers of Adelaide, so it was the every 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:42.560 sea would have them tougher part to working class people, 0:09:43.880 --> 0:09:48.600 often lower socio economic occupants. And now I lived out 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:51.160 there too, so I include myself in these groups. So 0:09:51.160 --> 0:09:54.040 some of them, of course had very strained relationships and 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:56.600 we get called those quite frequently. But back then when 0:09:56.640 --> 0:09:59.480 I first started way back in the late eighties, DV 0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:02.200 wasn't known as DV. That was just a domestic dispute 0:10:02.240 --> 0:10:04.920 and argument or whatever they've now called it domestic violence. 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:07.720 But I remember going to one Elizabeth and that was 0:10:08.559 --> 0:10:10.400 that was horrendous. We went and saw this lady and 0:10:10.440 --> 0:10:12.199 as you do, you separate the male and the female. 0:10:12.240 --> 0:10:14.520 I had the mail with me getting his version of 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:16.880 what was going on, and my partners then come in 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:19.000 and said, I need to see you. And he was 0:10:19.040 --> 0:10:21.120 talking to the female in the relationship and he said, 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:23.600 she's just told me the poured bleach over. We could 0:10:23.600 --> 0:10:25.719 swell bleach. When we walked in, he's poured bleach over 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:28.840 and he hit her with a broom. He really injured 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:31.840 her arm, and he said during the whole process, he's 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:34.880 actually he's raped her. Rape in marriage. Oh gee said 0:10:34.880 --> 0:10:36.719 Then we had to call the cib in and all 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:38.920 those things, and turned out that she actually had a 0:10:38.960 --> 0:10:41.600 broken arm. She had her arm broken, bleach poured over, 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:45.080 and had been raped, and she revealed a rape some 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:48.760 days prior. And when it went to court, the magistrate 0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:53.680 just made the front page of the papers because in 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:56.600 the whatever it was now in nineteen eighty eight or nine. 0:10:56.640 --> 0:10:59.120 Perhaps he had said during his summing up, and I'm 0:10:59.120 --> 0:11:00.960 sure he didn't mean it to like it, But what 0:11:01.000 --> 0:11:04.640 the media grabbed on was when he said, sometimes a 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:06.880 male a man might need to persuade his wife a 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:10.319 little bit yet a little bit of cadeeling, a bit 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:15.240 of coercing into sexual activity, thinking, isn't it so you 0:11:15.240 --> 0:11:17.400 can just imagine that she had her arm broken and yeah, 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:19.960 and she had bleach brought over. That's not that's not 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:23.280 sort of subtle curdueling. It's doesn't fall into anybody's definitely 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:23.800 a full play. 0:11:24.440 --> 0:11:28.360 No, But look, we're improving, not definitely the way that 0:11:28.840 --> 0:11:32.360 domestic violence is managed, but we're also seeing the ramifications 0:11:32.400 --> 0:11:34.560 the amount of people were a killed as a result 0:11:34.600 --> 0:11:39.000 of domestic violence situations, and that it's quite confronting and 0:11:39.280 --> 0:11:42.200 it's very difficult early in your policing career to come 0:11:42.200 --> 0:11:44.240 in there and speak with authority, and that you're talking 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:46.040 to people who are probably the same age as your 0:11:46.040 --> 0:11:49.079 parents all around that, and you're trying to give them 0:11:49.120 --> 0:11:51.640 relationships advice when you're trying to sort that out yourself. 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:53.680 Yeah, one thing I was very grateful for when I 0:11:53.760 --> 0:11:56.600 went to apply for the South Australian Police straight from school. 0:11:56.640 --> 0:11:58.600 They knocked me back and I was devastated. Only if 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:00.600 I wanted to be a copper. I had uncle who 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:02.800 was a bobby in England, and I don't know why, 0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:04.120 just what always wanted to be a copper. There was 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:06.120 no other coppers in my family apart from English uncle. 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:08.840 So I got knocked back and they say, now we 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:10.840 have to go go off and get some life experience. 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:12.880 I thought, oh terrible, Say anyway, that's what I did. 0:12:13.120 --> 0:12:15.000 I went off and by the time I came back 0:12:15.000 --> 0:12:18.520 to them, I'd had an overseas sort of trip. I've 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:21.120 been in England for a year. I'd come back. I 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:22.720 was working in the factory, working with the whole owns 0:12:22.720 --> 0:12:25.240 of different people. And then I've also got married and 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:28.079 had my first daughter was born just before I went 0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:31.520 and went out of the academy, and and that that 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:33.560 served me in good stead. Because when you get to 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:35.120 these things, one of the first things I'll say to 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:36.880 you is what would you know? Are you married? 0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:37.160 Yes? 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:39.640 I am your kids yes, So I can answer yes 0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:41.719 to most of their most of the things I try 0:12:41.720 --> 0:12:44.560 and tear me down off for somewhat they formed yeah, 0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:46.240 I do have I do have kids. I know they 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:48.719 can drive you crazy, but you can't be beating the 0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:50.800 wife up for that sort of stuff, and so it 0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:55.000 does help. I think having life experience was beneficial one 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:58.640 hundred percent agree. There's exceptions that people have joined straight 0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:02.440 from school and they've made stellar careers. But I always 0:13:02.760 --> 0:13:05.400 thought that it served well with people who've got a 0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:07.559 little bit of life experience and spending a couple of 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:10.160 years out of school. So you get not going straight 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:12.959 from school in the cops and tell us. 0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:15.360 About your career. Just give us a brief overview of 0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:16.600 more work than what you did. 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:18.640 I've had a very fortunate career. I've been very very 0:13:18.679 --> 0:13:21.079 lucky to be in maybe the wrong place at the 0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:23.199 right time or the wrong right place at the wrong time, 0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:26.400 depending I look at these things perspective. I started my 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:28.480 career in nineteen eighty six. I went into the police 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:31.400 Academy in South Australia, came out in eighty seven. I 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:34.560 did fourteen and a half years in South Australia and 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:37.880 then when Queensland were recruiting a lot of people, I 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:40.200 took the chance then to move to Queensland because my 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:42.320 eldest daughter was about to start high school. It was 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:44.720 just timing for the kids. Well, if they're going to go. 0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:47.640 South Australia financially was going very bad at that stage 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:49.920 and they closed thirty five state schools a year before 0:13:50.080 --> 0:13:52.040 the year I left, and stuff like that. So it 0:13:52.120 --> 0:13:54.160 just seemed like it was better opportunities in Queensland for them. 0:13:54.160 --> 0:13:55.760 So we said, if we're going to go, let's go. 0:13:56.240 --> 0:13:58.080 And so that's what we did when we come up 0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:01.200 to Queensland. But I started in friendsic because I'd only 0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:05.600 reasonably reasonably newly married when I first joined South Australia. 0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:08.679 They I've always had an interest in photography. It was 0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:12.080 a keen photographer ever since I was about fourteen. I 0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:15.440 needed to earn more money because the policing in today's 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:17.600 probably not so bad, but back then the police pay 0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:20.560 was pretty ordinary. So I thought, I'm going to earn 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:22.880 more money and I looked around To get more money, 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:24.880 I had to get more rank, so I needed to 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:26.880 get some stripes. How do I get stripes? I look 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:29.440 around that, okay, we're going to get promoted. Getting promoted 0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:31.280 in general, dudis was really hard because you've got the 0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:34.520 pyramid effects and you're down in the bottom the basement, 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:36.120 if you like, of the pyramid. You haven't even got 0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:39.080 to the top. So yeah, the further you go up. 0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:41.320 So I look around. We've got to specialize, and I thought, 0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:44.000 what do I want to specialize in? And then I 0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:47.440 saw the course advertised for forensics and crime, saying I 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:50.240 wants taking photos. I could probably do that. So I 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:53.280 applied and got on the course and did pretty well 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:56.160 on the course, and then I thought, I'll just have 0:14:56.240 --> 0:14:58.760 it in my back pocket ready for when I do 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:01.800 want to have enough general duties. Totally sick of it, 0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:04.320 I'll do it then. So I went back to the 0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:07.280 station and the senior sergeant at that stage she was 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:09.560 doing rosters and things, and we said, he said, you're 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:14.560 going off too, forensics in twenty eight days. What No, no, no, no, 0:15:14.680 --> 0:15:16.120 that's not the plan. He said, Well no, he said, 0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:17.480 you can't do the course. You can't, you can't go 0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:19.920 and look, well, i'll be blunting. You said you can't 0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:22.320 do the bloody course and not go, He said, especially 0:15:22.320 --> 0:15:24.160 when you scored as well as you did. So because 0:15:24.200 --> 0:15:26.640 I think I may have topped the course, but I'm 0:15:26.640 --> 0:15:29.280 not a brag, but I did did pretty well, and 0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:30.960 he said, no, you were to go. That's it. That's 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:32.320 that's how it is. You can't do the course, not go, 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:34.960 You're you're bloody going, Okay, So off I went. 0:15:35.600 --> 0:15:36.800 Changed the direction it did. 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:39.200 So then I find myself on the train trekking into 0:15:39.200 --> 0:15:42.840 Adelaide and stuff for two or three years. And then 0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:45.800 in my first year or so of being in Adelaide 0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:47.760 working there, they asked me to go and relieve over 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:50.880 the forensic second or the physical evidence section, doing more 0:15:50.920 --> 0:15:52.920 major crimes than the homicides and those sorts of things. 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:55.320 So I said, oh, go, we go at that and 0:15:55.520 --> 0:15:57.320 went across there. Originally I think it was going to 0:15:57.320 --> 0:15:59.680 be for three weeks. I never left. Yeah, they sort 0:15:59.840 --> 0:16:02.360 they kept me and we got stuck into doing comparison 0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:04.400 work and murders. I traveled all over the state with it, 0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:06.880 and then I actually got a bit burnt out, I 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:11.920 suppose towards the early mid part of nineteen ninety five. 0:16:12.280 --> 0:16:14.880 So then they had a position advertised for the country 0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:17.120 crime scene people at Kadena on New York Peninsula, which 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:19.600 is that little boot like a tiny little miniature Italy 0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:21.600 when you look at Mappo South Australia, the little boot. 0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:23.440 So I went and did. I went, did about four 0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:25.760 years there until the girls got to the stage where 0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:27.920 the eldest was going to start high school? What are 0:16:27.920 --> 0:16:30.520 we going to do? Went to Queensland. That's it. Given 0:16:30.640 --> 0:16:33.440 up on my forensic career. That was fine. I've had 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:36.520 a pretty good run with it. And then when I 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:38.960 came to Queensland, went to general duties a Broadbeach and 0:16:39.080 --> 0:16:42.040 had some interesting jobs there, got some good fun. Cordon 0:16:42.120 --> 0:16:44.560 armed robber at gun point with his bag of money 0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:45.880 and his shotguns still on the front seat. 0:16:46.640 --> 0:16:49.960 Those were the days when they still chase people. It 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:53.479 was literally cops and robbers when the banks had been robbed. 0:16:53.240 --> 0:16:53.560 Wasn't it. 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:55.600 It really was chasing the bad guys. They had their 0:16:55.600 --> 0:16:58.560 sawn off shotgun, bag of cash and they're usually a 0:16:58.560 --> 0:16:59.560 balaclava or something. 0:16:59.600 --> 0:17:01.760 It was a very active arm Robert at the time 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:03.960 going around knocking off banks all over the Gold Coast. 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:06.240 And one day he's done this robbery at the bank 0:17:06.359 --> 0:17:09.159 and then he's sped down past the speed camera in 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:12.120 his stolen car. So speed camera guy gets on the radio. 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:13.760 So I've just had this car come through one hundred 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:15.560 and twenty of whatever used to go in this way, 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:17.320 and it turns out it's the same one that's just 0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:19.280 left the bank. And we were just at the broad 0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:21.679 Beach police station doing typing or something, and we're listening 0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:23.880 to this chase sort of coming in and sure enough 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:26.040 it's coming straight towards us. So my partner then, who 0:17:26.080 --> 0:17:28.920 was actually Australia, let's go if we go? So where 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:30.520 we go. I'm in the passenger seat. I'm trying to 0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:33.120 call the chase. We end up being the lead car mysteriously, 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:35.320 and of course your how that was, but Chris could drive. 0:17:35.520 --> 0:17:37.960 Sometimes you find yourself in the wrong spot, so. 0:17:38.000 --> 0:17:40.320 Chris could drive. So off we went, and we went 0:17:40.359 --> 0:17:42.200 the wrong way down some one way streets and things, 0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:44.920 and yeah, I'm trying to read the signs of the 0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:47.240 street signs where we're going as you're calling the chase, 0:17:47.240 --> 0:17:48.639