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Speaker 1: This is the City and with Kate Rigi podcast Good

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Speaker 1: Pulls Again.

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Speaker 2: Love, I don't have a lot of it. City song

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Speaker 2: to be well, it's not a brand new song. It's

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Speaker 2: from nineteen ninety eight. It's from the soundtrack of a

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Speaker 2: movie called City of Angels.

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about Goo Goo Dolls.

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Speaker 3: Iris.

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Speaker 1: Who was it a movie?

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Speaker 3: Mate?

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Speaker 2: Okay, Nick, Nicholas Cage, McBryan. Yes, Now this is an unbeliever.

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Speaker 2: I've got to get through this. There's a great podcast

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Speaker 2: called song Exploit It. Now I've got it off this

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Speaker 2: because this is fascinating how this song came together. The

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Speaker 2: lead singer is John Resnick is his name, and John

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Speaker 2: Resnick was having writer's block whip, couldn't come up with

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Speaker 2: a song months and months, and then Warner Brothers approached

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Speaker 2: him to write a song for this new movie. If

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Speaker 2: you haven't seen City of Angels, this is what he

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Speaker 2: was asked to write a song about.

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Speaker 4: So it's the story about this angel who has immortality,

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Speaker 4: but he's lonely and he sees this woman and he

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Speaker 4: just wants to know what it feels like to feel

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Speaker 4: what all these humans are feeling because he's just going

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Speaker 4: around watching them and so he makes this leap and

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Speaker 4: he gives up his immortality for her, for love.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So when you're struggling to write, right and they're

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Speaker 2: paying you a lot of money Warner Brothers to write

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Speaker 2: this song, I mean, he's freaking out going, what do

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Speaker 2: I do?

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Speaker 1: What do you start?

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Speaker 4: So?

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Speaker 1: How do you start a song like that?

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Speaker 4: I thought, where am I going to write this from?

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Speaker 4: And I said, well, what would I say? What would

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Speaker 4: I say to that woman? I had a guitar, and

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Speaker 4: because I detuned and use alternate tunings, I'd gone a

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Speaker 4: little too far and I popped two strings off the guitar.

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Speaker 4: Four strings on this guitar left, and I detuned the

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Speaker 4: low e to a B, the other's three strings to d's. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: and I'm just playing and I'm just running this like

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Speaker 4: basically the shape of a power chord, but very simple.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So this is the fascinating bit whip.

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Speaker 2: This is this is what blows my mind, because you

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Speaker 2: know what he likes to riff and he likes to

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Speaker 2: put his songs together. When he impersonates other artists, it

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Speaker 2: gets it gives him inspiration.

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Speaker 1: This, this bit blew my mind.

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Speaker 4: I do this when I read songs I'll be like

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Speaker 4: they got to be We're gone, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 4: I'll do I'll do like the you know when people

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Speaker 4: do their impersonation of Bob Dylan Lizebo this long, you know.

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Speaker 4: So that's how I get melodies. And I always find

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Speaker 4: melody first, what sits on top of the cords and

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Speaker 4: what does it make you feel? And then sometimes a

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Speaker 4: word will come out.

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Speaker 5: You're sitting there.

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Speaker 1: Going yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 4: And I don't want to be like, ah, don't to

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Speaker 4: be like I don't want to and.

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Speaker 3: I don't.

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Speaker 4: Let's see me because I don't think they understand whereverything's

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Speaker 4: made a bit broken.

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Speaker 3: I just want you to know.

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Speaker 2: That is that say, he's just done that on the spot,

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Speaker 2: just mucking around. So but then this is blows my

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Speaker 2: mind even more, is that he Then they go in

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Speaker 2: and they do their first demo and it's really bad,

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Speaker 2: whipped like that.

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Speaker 1: The drum beeat just wasn't does it wasn't right.

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Speaker 2: This is the first demo of Irish.

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Speaker 1: No doesn't work, terrible, terrible.

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Speaker 2: So what happens right with the soundtrack, And because it's

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Speaker 2: Warner Brothers and there's a lot of money going into this,

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Speaker 2: they bring in this producer, Rob Cavarllo is his name,

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Speaker 2: and then Rob starts introducing elements to the song, because

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Speaker 2: if you left it up to the Goo Go Dolls,

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Speaker 2: I mean John Resnick, he was going through writer's block.

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Speaker 1: He didn't know what to do.

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Speaker 2: So they've got this guy involved, and then all of

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Speaker 2: a sudden, this Rob Cavallo comes in and starts adding stuff.

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Speaker 1: It's amazing who's playing that mandolin.

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Speaker 4: That's Tim Pierce player, one of the greatest session players

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Speaker 4: in the history of recorded music.

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Speaker 5: On the mandolin.

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Speaker 1: Do you know whose idea it was to bring him in? Rob?

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Speaker 4: This is where Rob turned us on to some crazy stuff.

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Speaker 2: So then then Rob goes, why don't we bring in

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Speaker 2: some strings? Why don't I bring in a violin and

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Speaker 2: all this kind of stuff and a bit of a

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Speaker 2: and the hit that. They're like, no, that's not the

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Speaker 2: Goo Goo Dolls. So they were strongly against it. They

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Speaker 2: didn't want to bring in a string section, and Rob said,

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Speaker 2: can you just hear it?

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Speaker 1: And this is the first time that they heard it.

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Speaker 4: And when they came out and started playing, Robbi and

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Speaker 4: I were like, uhh uh, oh, it's kind of cool.

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Speaker 4: And then I'm like, you know if we do this,

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Speaker 4: it's no going back to what we were doing. And

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Speaker 4: he's like yeah, and then we were both like, get must.

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Speaker 3: It isn't that amazing?

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Speaker 1: You know that song? It wouldn't have it wouldn't have come.

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Speaker 2: Together if it wasn't on a soundtrack and it wasn't

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Speaker 2: sponsored by Warner Brothers because Goo Goo Dolls would have

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Speaker 2: put together that first demo and they wouldn't have had

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Speaker 2: Rob Cavalo there going well you need a mandolin and

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Speaker 2: you need a string section. And it made it into

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Speaker 2: the song that it is. It's had four billion streams.

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Speaker 2: Well that's the other thing when they look at the

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Speaker 2: back catalog, can you name another Gurgo Dolls song?

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Speaker 5: You know? I said there's no going back after this.

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Speaker 5: Well you're on the ways.

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Speaker 1: Forward, I would have thought.

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Speaker 2: And it's you know what. They're still touring to this day.

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Speaker 2: They just played in Australia recently. They have to play

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Speaker 2: Iris eight times. But it's an amazing song.

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Speaker 6: This is the Fitz and Whipper with Cape Ritchie podcast.

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Speaker 3: To love.

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Speaker 5: I don't know a lot of the.

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Speaker 1: Song to be all right. Today we're going with Rihanna's

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Speaker 1: s O S. Great song.

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Speaker 2: What an artist I had no idea about Rihanna when

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Speaker 2: it comes to this.

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Speaker 7: Listen, Rihanna's considered one of the greatest artists of all time.

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Speaker 7: She barely writes anything. Why because she's the most genius

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Speaker 7: level A and R.

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Speaker 2: Ever, Okay, So an R stands for Artists and repertoire.

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Speaker 2: Now it's a division within a record label or music

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Speaker 2: publishing company responsible for discovering new artists. So basically, what

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Speaker 2: they're saying with A and R is you're a genius

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Speaker 2: at getting the right people around you right becomes successful yourself.

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Speaker 1: Here's another example.

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Speaker 6: You go those talented people together to like make the

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Speaker 6: best product.

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Speaker 5: You can't.

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Speaker 7: It's Quincy forty people worked on thriller like producing people.

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Speaker 7: It's just that people weren't considered writers back then.

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Speaker 2: So I didn't know that Quincy Jones had forty different

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Speaker 2: people working on Michael Jackson's thriller Like god that is

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Speaker 2: isn't that unbelievable?

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Speaker 5: But knows how to get the best result.

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Speaker 2: Look, that's the best and it's all about you've got

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Speaker 2: to be the one that organizes it.

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Speaker 1: So Rihanna as heart. I don't think she's written any

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Speaker 1: of her music. Shelew my mind.

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Speaker 4: She's an event coordinators weddings and albums.

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Speaker 2: Okay, s os, have you guys got any idea where

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Speaker 2: the songs sort of come from and what the famous sample.

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Speaker 5: Is, Yes, I do what's called away.

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Speaker 1: Let's have a listen not away, so it is huge.

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Speaker 2: It's soft cell tainted love. Well that met from the original,

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Speaker 2: but that's where it's come from. But that's where it

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Speaker 2: was taken from.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 1: The two guys that worked on the song was a guy.

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Speaker 2: Called Evan Kid Bogart and Jr wrote him.

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Speaker 1: Ryan Jr.

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Speaker 2: Wrotehim and Evan Bogart. They were putting a girl group together.

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Speaker 2: So this was back sort of in the naughties whip

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Speaker 2: when sort of girl and boy groups were sort of massive,

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Speaker 2: and they thought, well, let's let's form our own. So

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Speaker 2: they got these girls together and wrote this song for them,

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Speaker 2: shopped it around but no one wanted it.

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Speaker 6: Shopped the group to every major level, every single person passed.

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Speaker 6: They're like no. And at the time j Z and

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Speaker 6: g Brown his guy, were running Deaf Jam. You're newly

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Speaker 6: running deaf Jam at the time, and they had a roster.

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Speaker 6: Obviously they had rappers, but they had Christina Milion and

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Speaker 6: Rihanna newly signed, and Jay Brown, I believe, was like, Okay,

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Speaker 6: well we don't want to sign this group. I'll tell

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Speaker 6: you though, I like that one song.

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Speaker 1: I like s O S and Evan.

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Speaker 6: And I were like, okay, so well we've shopped them

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Speaker 6: to everyone. We can't get a deal. I guess it's

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Speaker 6: time to have a garage sale. Let's get something.

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Speaker 5: Out of this.

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Speaker 2: So then they sold the song. Now even kid Boga

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Speaker 2: wrote the lyrics for it. Now, there's a unbelievable story

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Speaker 2: behind the lyrics.

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Speaker 5: When I wrote it, I had no idea what I

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Speaker 5: was doing.

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Speaker 8: The whole second verse of that song is eighty song

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Speaker 8: titles strung together as sentences because I thought it would

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Speaker 8: be super clever. Take on me, Aha, you know inside

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Speaker 8: you feel it right? Take me on? Could just die

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Speaker 8: up in your arms tonight? I melt with you. You

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Speaker 8: got me head over heels.

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Speaker 5: Well, boy, you keep me hanging on where you make

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Speaker 5: me feel?

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Speaker 3: You know the way?

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Speaker 5: They're all number one songs from the eighties. That's incredible.

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Speaker 5: I had no idea. No one does, No one does clever.

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Speaker 1: Isn't that really clever? It's quite lazy, No, really, isn't it?

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Speaker 5: But You've added another layer. And that's what I like

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Speaker 5: about it.

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Speaker 4: And that's why listening to this people are just discovering

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Speaker 4: it for the first time.

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Speaker 5: I didn't know that.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's it's amazing that they've written it for a

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Speaker 2: girl group that never took off, and then jac said

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Speaker 2: I'll take it for Rihanna and now it's a huge song.

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Speaker 2: Sits in Whipper with Kate Ritchie is a Nova podcast

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Speaker 2: walk great shows like this.

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Speaker 6: Download the Nova Player, fight the app Store or Google

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Speaker 6: Playing the Nova Player