1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:08,600 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. 2 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:11,960 Sean Aylmer: We talk a lot about artificial intelligence, about how businesses 3 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:15,319 Sean Aylmer: can use AI to improve productivity, and the challenges in 4 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:18,920 Sean Aylmer: navigating a period of significant disruption, but in terms of 5 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:23,000 Sean Aylmer: the opportunity for Australia, we're only just scratching the surface now. 6 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:25,720 Sean Aylmer: One of this country's most respected tech leaders has used 7 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,680 Sean Aylmer: a National Press Club address to lay out exactly how 8 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:31,400 Sean Aylmer: big the potential is and what the government needs to 9 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:34,400 Sean Aylmer: do to get us there. Scott Farquhar is the Co-Founder 10 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:37,920 Sean Aylmer: of Atlassian and the chair of the Tech Council of Australia. Scott, 11 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:38,920 Sean Aylmer: welcome to Fear and Greed. 12 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:40,520 Scott Farquhar: I'm so glad to be here. 13 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:44,120 Sean Aylmer: How big is the prize? The AI Prize? 14 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:46,000 Scott Farquhar: Well, I want to take you back a little bit 15 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:50,319 Scott Farquhar: in terms of history. When you look at humans as 16 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:53,640 Scott Farquhar: builders of tools, all the advances have come when you 17 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:55,840 Scott Farquhar: can really work out new ways to use energy to 18 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:59,240 Scott Farquhar: advance human civilisation. So, we used wind and water to 19 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:03,480 Scott Farquhar: mill grain. We used coal to power steam and eventually steel. 20 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:07,520 Scott Farquhar: We used oil to power our cars and our planes. 21 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:10,200 Scott Farquhar: And at each of those junctures when we used energy 22 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:13,880 Scott Farquhar: for a more advanced usage, like it really propelled everything 23 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:17,679 Scott Farquhar: we could do as a species. And we are now 24 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:20,640 Scott Farquhar: at a moment in time when we can now use 25 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:24,720 Scott Farquhar: energy to do knowledge work. And so whilst we've got 26 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:29,280 Scott Farquhar: used to using energy to replace us plowing in a field, 27 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:32,240 Scott Farquhar: we will eventually get used to you know knowledge, you know, 28 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:35,119 Scott Farquhar: kind of using energy to replace a call center worker, 29 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:38,399 Scott Farquhar: you know, answering the same call or the same request 30 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:41,720 Scott Farquhar: day in, day out. And so in these moments of 31 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:46,120 Scott Farquhar: time you have an opportunity to change the global pecking order. 32 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:49,640 Scott Farquhar: And when also, you know, small advantages early on can 33 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:53,960 Scott Farquhar: compound into big advantages over time. And so we'll say 34 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:56,200 Scott Farquhar: two examples. One is the industrial revolution. So the UK 35 00:01:56,440 --> 00:02:00,520 Scott Farquhar: had accessible coal deposits, but of course they can use 36 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:03,320 Scott Farquhar: to build you know, railways and steal and then the 37 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:07,080 Scott Farquhar: railways made the next coal deposits even cheaper, which then 38 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:10,000 Scott Farquhar: was a virtuous cycle, and of course that eventually led 39 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:12,640 Scott Farquhar: to the building of their navy, you know, with steam 40 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:15,160 Scott Farquhar: and steel, which led to an empire you know, for 41 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:17,679 Scott Farquhar: one hundred and fifty years. And while that seems a 42 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:19,720 Scott Farquhar: long time ago. If we take the example of Singapore, 43 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:23,799 Scott Farquhar: Singapore went from you know, what would be argued a 44 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:27,480 Scott Farquhar: sort of colonial you know, swampland you know, a century 45 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:31,040 Scott Farquhar: or so ago to a country that's now sort of 46 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:34,480 Scott Farquhar: a world power. And if you look at that, in 47 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:38,079 Scott Farquhar: just in my lifetime, forty five years, Singapore has taken 48 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:42,680 Scott Farquhar: advantage of containerships and you know, contanierships were a new technology, 49 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:46,320 Scott Farquhar: and Singapore bet behind them, betting on ports and making 50 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:48,480 Scott Farquhar: sure they had a stable rule of law and you know, 51 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:52,117 Scott Farquhar: an advantageous business environment and as a result, they are 52 00:02:52,117 --> 00:02:54,800 Scott Farquhar: now the second largest port in the world. And again 53 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:57,399 Scott Farquhar: that was from a small advantage that has compounded over 54 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:00,280 Scott Farquhar: the last fifty years. And over that same time period 55 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:02,880 Scott Farquhar: they've gone from forty per cent, give or take, of 56 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,520 Scott Farquhar: the US's GDP per capita to one hundred and twenty 57 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:08,960 Scott Farquhar: five percent of the US's GDP per capita. And so 58 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:11,440 Scott Farquhar: in just you know, well, I think forty five years 59 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:14,040 Scott Farquhar: is my lifetime, not a long time, they have kind of lapped the 60 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:17,200 Scott Farquhar: US in productivity. And so I think about all that 61 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:20,840 Scott Farquhar: and think the AI opportunity is a huge chance for 62 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:24,640 Scott Farquhar: Australia to you know, rewrite the scoreboard in terms of 63 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:27,840 Scott Farquhar: global trade. And that's the opportunity ahead of us. 64 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:32,440 Sean Aylmer: So what's the Australian equivalent to ports or to coal? 65 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:36,120 Scott Farquhar: So Singapore had some natural advantages, obviously a port, but 66 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:39,280 Scott Farquhar: they were one of five ports in that particular region 67 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:41,840 Scott Farquhar: of the world that could have become large. They had a 68 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:45,960 Scott Farquhar: stable rule of law. They progressively attracted businesses. And if 69 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:49,360 Scott Farquhar: we look at our advantages in Australia, let's just take 70 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:51,840 Scott Farquhar: the data center opportunity for us, the ability to build 71 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:55,280 Scott Farquhar: data centers to host computers, for the region and for 72 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:59,920 Scott Farquhar: the world. A couple. First, we're you know, in a great region, 73 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:03,400 Scott Farquhar: you know, which is the Asia Pacific region and Southeast 74 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:07,800 Scott Farquhar: Asia region, which is actually reasonably large and growing when 75 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:11,000 Scott Farquhar: it comes to computer usage. And so a statistic there 76 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:14,680 Scott Farquhar: is that there are more users of ChatGPT between Indonesia 77 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:17,880 Scott Farquhar: and Vietnam than there are in the US, so we're 78 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:22,680 Scott Farquhar: close to that. We have abundant talent in terms of 79 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:27,800 Scott Farquhar: our raw talent, we have access to green and renewable energy, 80 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:30,760 Scott Farquhar: we have abundant raw materials, you know, if we want 81 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:33,920 Scott Farquhar: to build concrete and steel to house these data centers. 82 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:37,000 Scott Farquhar: We've got a stable rule of law, which is important 83 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:39,880 Scott Farquhar: when people are looking to put these huge capital investments. 84 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:44,520 Scott Farquhar: And lastly, you know, we, in this time of geopolitically uncertainty, 85 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:48,919 Scott Farquhar: we have access to chips, you know, high speed chips 86 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:51,599 Scott Farquhar: that many other countries don't have access to, and so 87 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:54,880 Scott Farquhar: all of that are our raw natural advantages. And what 88 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:58,000 Scott Farquhar: we need to do is press this early advantage by 89 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:02,640 Scott Farquhar: really aggressively investing to sort of build those compound benefits 90 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:03,080 Scott Farquhar: over time. 91 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:07,240 Sean Aylmer: At the Press Club yesterday, you were talking about the 92 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:10,240 Sean Aylmer: government needing to pave the way. Previously, maybe twenty years ago, 93 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:12,680 Sean Aylmer: you were talking about the government getting out of the way. 94 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:17,200 Sean Aylmer: What does the government need to do now to enable 95 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:21,560 Sean Aylmer: private sector public markets to take advantage of what you're 96 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:22,159 Sean Aylmer: talking about? 97 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:25,599 Scott Farquhar: There are two areas I look out that the government 98 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,640 Scott Farquhar: could really have a big impact. One is the data 99 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:32,479 Scott Farquhar: center opportunity, and that is private capital largely, so we 100 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:35,279 Scott Farquhar: don't need the government to provide capital here. What we 101 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:38,479 Scott Farquhar: do need is for them to change copyright laws. In 102 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,920 Scott Farquhar: twenty fourteen, the Law Reform Commission recommended changes to Australian 103 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:45,480 Scott Farquhar: copyright laws. In twenty sixteen, the Productivity Commission, and the 104 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:48,480 Scott Farquhar: reason for that is that our copyright laws are out 105 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:49,960 Scott Farquhar: of step with the rest of the world, and so 106 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:53,400 Scott Farquhar: that's holding and preventing a wad of large players from 107 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:55,719 Scott Farquhar: putting their models here in Australia. 108 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:57,400 Sean Aylmer: Just dig into that a little bit. So is this 109 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:02,200 Sean Aylmer: because large language models can't access the information? I'm not 110 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:03,520 Sean Aylmer: quite sure where you're going on the copyright laws. 111 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:08,360 Scott Farquhar: Yes, let me go through that. In copyright law, it can be quite niche and esoteric. 112 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:12,680 Scott Farquhar: And so that's a very valid question and I'm not 113 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:15,880 Scott Farquhar: the best expert at this myself, but the thing is 114 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:19,320 Scott Farquhar: that most nations have, both Europe and the US have 115 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:21,720 Scott Farquhar: what's called a fair use exemption. And so if I 116 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:24,560 Scott Farquhar: copy a whole book, you know, that's a problem. If 117 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:26,839 Scott Farquhar: I use part of it for a Google search result, 118 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:30,280 Scott Farquhar: or I train part of it on a large language model, 119 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:33,279 Scott Farquhar: and that's a new and novel and a different use, that's 120 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:36,560 Scott Farquhar: called fair use. In Australia, our fair use exception is 121 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,880 Scott Farquhar: very limited. And so what we find is overseas companies 122 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:43,440 Scott Farquhar: large language models, but even Australian companies training their own 123 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:46,960 Scott Farquhar: models on you know, maybe images or image recognition or generation, 124 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:52,040 Scott Farquhar: those things are a problem for us, and so we 125 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:53,799 Scott Farquhar: need to make that ... it seems like a straightforward 126 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:56,000 Scott Farquhar: and there's no more reports needed, like the government just 127 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:58,720 Scott Farquhar: needs to amend those. So that's one thing on the 128 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:02,720 Scott Farquhar: data center. Two is there's so many more jobs available 129 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:06,400 Scott Farquhar: in this opportunity, and we really call on the unions 130 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:11,080 Scott Farquhar: to go from having four year apprenticeships to having something 131 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:14,240 Scott Farquhar: where there is a stepping stone, because if someone was a call 132 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:17,400 Scott Farquhar: center worker and they want to retrain to build data centers, 133 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:19,400 Scott Farquhar: I don't think we can go through a four year 134 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:24,600 Scott Farquhar: apprenticeship in order to make that happen. And so you know, 135 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:28,160 Scott Farquhar: the unions can work with that. We should create tech trades, 136 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:32,160 Scott Farquhar: we should create digital apprenticeships and they should get people 137 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:34,960 Scott Farquhar: into the workforce in six or twelve months building data 138 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:39,160 Scott Farquhar: centers or connecting batteries to the grid. The last one, 139 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,320 Scott Farquhar: and I think this is a very bold idea here, 140 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:45,200 Scott Farquhar: is to create the concept of a digital embassy. So 141 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:47,920 Scott Farquhar: we have embassies in Australia where you know, they are 142 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:50,560 Scott Farquhar: subject to the laws of the country, not Australia, but 143 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:53,520 Scott Farquhar: they are subject to the laws of the overseas country. So Japan has 144 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:56,800 Scott Farquhar: an embassy in Australia, it's you know, Japan laws. And 145 00:07:57,560 --> 00:07:59,080 Scott Farquhar: if we did that and said, hey, you can put 146 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:01,480 Scott Farquhar: a data center on Australian soil, and you know it's 147 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:06,480 Scott Farquhar: going to have Australian jobs, Australian steel, Australian fiber optic cable, 148 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:10,480 Scott Farquhar: Australian power. But the computers in that data center are 149 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:13,880 Scott Farquhar: subject to the laws of the country, you know, say Japan. 150 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:17,520 Scott Farquhar: That would make us much more attractive to other countries 151 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:20,280 Scott Farquhar: to host their data centers here in Australia. 152 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:24,720 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Scott, we'll be back in a minute. 153 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:32,680 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is Scott Farquhar, Co-Founder of Atlassian 154 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:35,400 Sean Aylmer: and the Chair of the Tech Council of Australia. The 155 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:39,048 Sean Aylmer: Digital Embassies. At the moment, am I right in saying 156 00:08:39,048 --> 00:08:42,600 Sean Aylmer: what you're saying is the difference is a data center 157 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:47,520 Sean Aylmer: allowing Japan's laws to rule that data center at the moment. 158 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:49,880 Sean Aylmer: That's not the case, Is that right? Because if I 159 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:54,439 Sean Aylmer: have an information in the US, it's US law that follows. 160 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:55,080 Sean Aylmer: Is that right? 161 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:58,640 Scott Farquhar: So it's fascinating here actually, and probably not something obvious 162 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:01,440 Scott Farquhar: to many of your listeners or many Australians, is that 163 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:05,240 Scott Farquhar: the way international law has evolved around the digital age 164 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:09,480 Scott Farquhar: is it's all about where the data center exists. And 165 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:14,160 Scott Farquhar: so you might have an Australian accessing a data center 166 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:18,800 Scott Farquhar: in Singapore that is operated by a US company and 167 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:21,400 Scott Farquhar: in some cases that is governed by Australian law, in 168 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:24,560 Scott Farquhar: some cases that's governed by Singaporean law, and in some 169 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:27,600 Scott Farquhar: cases that's governed by the US law. And if you're 170 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:30,040 Scott Farquhar: a company saying where can I put my data center, 171 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:32,600 Scott Farquhar: it's nice to not have to think, well, what are 172 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:35,600 Scott Farquhar: the laws of Australia, what may they change in the future, 173 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:38,120 Scott Farquhar: you know, and how do I have to think about that? 174 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:40,800 Scott Farquhar: And one of the reasons a lot of data centers are in 175 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:44,480 Scott Farquhar: Singapore is because it's pro business environment and I think 176 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:48,280 Scott Farquhar: we could leapfrog, you know that by literally making us 177 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:51,040 Scott Farquhar: subject to the laws of the country that wants to 178 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:52,760 Scott Farquhar: host their data in Australia. 179 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:56,000 Sean Aylmer: At the Press Club yesterday you talked about sand in 180 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:58,120 Sean Aylmer: the wheels. I think I'm not quite sure what the 181 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:02,320 Sean Aylmer: phrase you used is, but it is basically government ensuring that 182 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:06,360 Sean Aylmer: they were that they keep up with what the private 183 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:10,679 Sean Aylmer: sector is doing, particularly around AI. Just explain that. 184 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:13,599 Scott Farquhar: When these transformations happen, when we can use energy in 185 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,600 Scott Farquhar: new and wonderful ways, we make something that was hard 186 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:21,120 Scott Farquhar: now becomes easy. Certainly, the industrial revolution. It used to take 187 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:23,360 Scott Farquhar: up you know, eighty days to cross the Atlantic in 188 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:26,560 Scott Farquhar: both directions a round trip. It then took about eight days. 189 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:30,200 Scott Farquhar: But what we found is the ports became the bottleneck then, 190 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:32,199 Scott Farquhar: right because we didn't make ports more efficient. And it 191 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:34,679 Scott Farquhar: actually took one hundred and fifty to two hundred years 192 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:37,040 Scott Farquhar: to come up with the concept of containerships, you know, 193 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:40,400 Scott Farquhar: to improve ports. And if you look at AI and 194 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:44,240 Scott Farquhar: how it can make business more productive, the interactions with 195 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:46,719 Scott Farquhar: government are going to become even more of a bottleneck. 196 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:50,120 Scott Farquhar: And one example I give because I think it's relevant 197 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:54,200 Scott Farquhar: to everyone in Australia is housing. At the moment, housing, 198 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:57,480 Scott Farquhar: according to most of the Productivity Commission reports and others, 199 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:02,000 Scott Farquhar: is bottleneck behind approvals. And at the moment, the way 200 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:05,000 Scott Farquhar: you do approvals is you often do a multi hundred 201 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:06,880 Scott Farquhar: page document, you print it out, you take it to 202 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:08,439 Scott Farquhar: council and it sits on a desk for a few 203 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:11,080 Scott Farquhar: weeks and eventually, you know, may be reviewed and then 204 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:13,560 Scott Farquhar: you find out yes or no. And in that time 205 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:16,240 Scott Farquhar: you don't know whether it's going to be approved or not. 206 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:18,800 Scott Farquhar: You don't know what significant changes you might have. The 207 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:21,400 Scott Farquhar: cost of your raw materials is going up every day 208 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:24,320 Scott Farquhar: you sit there and wait for a reply. But if 209 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:27,760 Scott Farquhar: you think about what's possible with AI, that same government 210 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:31,600 Scott Farquhar: department could have trained a digital agent on every DA 211 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:35,000 Scott Farquhar: that's ever been submitted, every DA that's approved, every DA 212 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:39,320 Scott Farquhar: that was rejected, and that AI could work with the 213 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:42,760 Scott Farquhar: council officer and means that every DA gets approved within 214 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:45,800 Scott Farquhar: a week. And we can take that even further. What 215 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:48,680 Scott Farquhar: about if that AI was available to the public, and 216 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:51,160 Scott Farquhar: whilst it couldn't approve your DA for you, we could say, well, 217 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:52,960 Scott Farquhar: you have a forty percent chance of approval or a 218 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:56,080 Scott Farquhar: sixty percent chance of approval. Or, hey, here's feedback to 219 00:11:56,120 --> 00:12:00,320 Scott Farquhar: make your application better. If we did that, imagine if 220 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:02,680 Scott Farquhar: you're sitting with your architect or your builder and you 221 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:04,800 Scott Farquhar: want to know whether you can do something, you would 222 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:08,120 Scott Farquhar: then submit it multiple times to continue to get it better. 223 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:10,680 Scott Farquhar: And then you could take that even one step further. 224 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:13,680 Scott Farquhar: At the moment, if you're a developer and you want 225 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:16,880 Scott Farquhar: to build a block of apartments, you've got to buy 226 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:18,880 Scott Farquhar: that land. You then have to you know, spend, in 227 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:22,960 Scott Farquhar: that case it's months or even years to build that application, 228 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:27,480 Scott Farquhar: and then so huge sunk costs, huge capital costs and 229 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:29,840 Scott Farquhar: then if it often those things turn on whether you 230 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:32,360 Scott Farquhar: can have six or eight apartments is the difference between 231 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:35,800 Scott Farquhar: whether that makes sense or not. So imagine that developer 232 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:38,480 Scott Farquhar: who could then interact with that you know agent with 233 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:42,400 Scott Farquhar: that AI and know whether they could build those apartments 234 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:45,800 Scott Farquhar: before they purchased that block. That would make it a 235 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:48,840 Scott Farquhar: total make a huge difference to the nation in terms 236 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:51,959 Scott Farquhar: of how fast we could build. And this is not 237 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:54,679 Scott Farquhar: changing any planning laws. This is not saying we should 238 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:57,120 Scott Farquhar: do anything outside of the planning laws. This is just 239 00:12:57,240 --> 00:12:59,959 Scott Farquhar: removing the friction that I called sand in the gears 240 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:02,960 Scott Farquhar: of commerce that the government provides. And again, when we 241 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:06,160 Scott Farquhar: can start maybe when it took a year to work 242 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:08,280 Scott Farquhar: out your plans for a house to six weeks, were 243 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,120 Scott Farquhar: not a problem. But as AI increasingly makes it easy 244 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:14,600 Scott Farquhar: to design houses and faster to build houses with 3D 245 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:18,079 Scott Farquhar: printing or other technologies we do, you know that that 246 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:20,199 Scott Farquhar: government approval process is going to become even more stark 247 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:23,080 Scott Farquhar: and that can be applied across the entire government. Imagine 248 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:25,800 Scott Farquhar: we want the best in the brightest to come to Australia. 249 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:28,480 Scott Farquhar: At the moment you know you can someone can be 250 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:32,400 Scott Farquhar: sitting in Europe after work one day surfing seek dot com, 251 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:34,560 Scott Farquhar: dot au you and finding if they want a job, 252 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:37,040 Scott Farquhar: they find a job of their dreams. We think, you know, 253 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:39,400 Scott Farquhar: Australia would have to have them, and then they work 254 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:41,719 Scott Farquhar: out okay, well there's a multi month process to work 255 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:45,679 Scott Farquhar: out whether I can get a visa approved here. Imagine 256 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:47,360 Scott Farquhar: again if they could do that on an app in 257 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:49,640 Scott Farquhar: an hour and find out whether they could get a 258 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:52,040 Scott Farquhar: visa approved. And I'm not to say we have more 259 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:53,839 Scott Farquhar: people come to Australia and imagine the bar we could, 260 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:55,880 Scott Farquhar: you know, how high the bar could be if we 261 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:59,559 Scott Farquhar: had many more people applying for these amazing jobs here 262 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:03,600 Scott Farquhar: and so every level of government from you know, local 263 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:05,760 Scott Farquhar: government all the way through to federal government can benefit 264 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,119 Scott Farquhar: by using digital agents to speed approvals. 265 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:12,800 Sean Aylmer: Are you optimistic about Australia's AI future, Scott? 266 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:17,200 Scott Farquhar: I totally am optimistic, both at that level of nation 267 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:20,360 Scott Farquhar: building where the data centers can really make a difference 268 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:23,520 Scott Farquhar: for us. We just have so many natural advantages that 269 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:26,720 Scott Farquhar: if we parlay them now we can grow them into 270 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:32,320 Scott Farquhar: long term enduring advantages, but also the opportunity for businesses 271 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:35,760 Scott Farquhar: to take up this new technology and if government, you know, 272 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:37,920 Scott Farquhar: we have a government with a strong majority now, so 273 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:41,240 Scott Farquhar: you know, they can't point to anyone else holding them back. 274 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:44,320 Scott Farquhar: It's up to them to set the tone and tenor 275 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:46,720 Scott Farquhar: of where we want to be as a nation. And 276 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,000 Scott Farquhar: I think we have the opportunity to skate to where 277 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:51,840 Scott Farquhar: the puck is going as a nation. And in my 278 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:54,160 Scott Farquhar: experience the technologist is if you live in the future, 279 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:57,880 Scott Farquhar: you start creating it. And if as a country we 280 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:01,040 Scott Farquhar: can start living in that future, we can start creating it. 281 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,120 Sean Aylmer: Fantastic advice. Tell me do you miss running Atlassian day 282 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:05,800 Sean Aylmer: to day. You haven't been there for a year or 283 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:07,640 Sean Aylmer: so a bit longer, probably do you miss it? 284 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:10,480 Scott Farquhar: Oh, look I miss hanging out with the people, you know, 285 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:13,360 Scott Farquhar: I miss out in the management team. I miss sparring 286 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:17,800 Scott Farquhar: on ideas with Mike. But I have had opportunities now 287 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:20,440 Scott Farquhar: to spend time with my kids, to travel a bit, 288 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,360 Scott Farquhar: and to work on the tech industry and help out 289 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:25,080 Scott Farquhar: with the Tech Council and that's been super rewarding. 290 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:27,520 Sean Aylmer: Fantastic Scott, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 291 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:28,600 Scott Farquhar: Great thanks Sean. 292 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:31,680 Sean Aylmer: That was Scott Farquhar, Co-Founder of Atlassian and the Chair 293 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:34,000 Sean Aylmer: of the Tech Council of Australia. This is the Fear 294 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:36,560 Sean Aylmer: and Greed Business Interview. Join us every morning for the 295 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:39,640 Sean Aylmer: full episode of Fear and Greed Business news you can use. 296 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:41,360 Sean Aylmer: I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.