1 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:13,080 Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the Australians Money Puzzle podcast. I'm 2 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 1: James Kirby. What is the idea behind your investing? What's 3 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:22,280 Speaker 1: your longtime idea? When you invest? We're going to assume 4 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:25,920 Speaker 1: that sooner or later, perhaps already you own your house, 5 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 1: Perhaps already you have you actually have enough to retire. 6 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:31,640 Speaker 1: Maybe you don't think you do, but maybe you do. 7 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 1: So then the thing is, if you have a family, 8 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 1: your family, how are on earth are they going to 9 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: buy a house? You know, they've just put lending limits 10 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: on home mortgages at six times for the banks for 11 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: twenty percent of their volume six times. No one's buying 12 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: a house at six times in the major cities it's 13 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: eight times, nine times, ten times. Just gives you some 14 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 1: idea of the cost the younger generation face. We've got 15 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:09,319 Speaker 1: a lot of issues I want to talk about today, 16 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:11,400 Speaker 1: but the first thing I want to talk about with 17 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: my guest Will Hamilton, regular on the Show of Hamilton 18 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 1: were the partners and long term member of the Baron's 19 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:21,199 Speaker 1: Top one fifty distant in there again of course of late. 20 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: I want to talk to him about a piece he 21 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 1: did recently on The Australian which sparked a lot of comment. 22 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: It was basically all about the notion of leaving nothing behind, 23 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:34,919 Speaker 1: or as the Americans like to call it, die with zero. 24 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:38,119 Speaker 1: That's a book that's been a bestseller over there. How 25 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 1: are you well? 26 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 2: Very well, James, Thank you very much for having me. 27 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 1: I was intrigued with quite a personal piece you did. 28 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 1: Actually I thought on this, but it is something it's 29 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 1: kind of a paradox that a lot of people face, 30 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 1: particularly I think property investors. You know, they are stretching themselves, 31 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 1: they are negatively gearing. They are they are taking lists, 32 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 1: they are going through the relatively mundane issues of running 33 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 1: investment properties, and they're doing it with mixed success, often 34 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: so that they can help their kids buy a house. 35 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: A kind of a circular kind of a provise circular situation. 36 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 1: So tell me about what this concept and your impressions 37 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 1: of it. 38 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:19,679 Speaker 2: It's something we get into discussions with clients a lot, 39 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 2: and you know where wholesye license and our clients generally 40 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 2: have their in a fortunate position when we get into 41 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 2: a state planning and also planning for how they assist children. 42 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:34,239 Speaker 2: I often there's a bookshop up in the shopping center 43 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 2: above what we are dimicks. And I always say, on 44 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:40,080 Speaker 2: the way out, go and buy Bill Perkins, die with zero, 45 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:41,640 Speaker 2: now is that right? 46 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:44,519 Speaker 1: You don't really sell them. You didn't put a little 47 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:48,520 Speaker 1: stack a reception and make a bit of marrid is. 48 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 2: And it's all relative. It doesn't mean die with zero. 49 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 2: It's to give away to your children what an amount 50 00:02:57,639 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 2: that you can afford. So you know, I had to 51 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 2: get a little lot of emails people, and thank you 52 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 2: very much giving me some advice on the article. But 53 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:07,800 Speaker 2: one is to the extent you can afford it, and 54 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:09,839 Speaker 2: to help your children, because it's more important to help 55 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 2: your children while they're in their thirties and forties rather 56 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 2: than when you die and they're in their sixties, and 57 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:17,360 Speaker 2: that's when they need it, especially with the housing differential 58 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 2: when I am just a baby boomer. But when we 59 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 2: went out there to buy houses and four to five 60 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 2: times at your income level versus as you rightly said, 61 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 2: you ten times plus today. And these are issues that 62 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 2: our children therefore need our assistance to the extent that 63 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 2: we can provide it. Now, there's only so much you 64 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 2: can say in nine hundred words. And you know again, 65 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 2: some people wrote in and one person was a little 66 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 2: bit emotional with respect to the fact that they'd done 67 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 2: this and then their children got divorced. So you do 68 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 2: need to get some advice. And what I'm saying is 69 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 2: general advice only, but you need to go and talk 70 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 2: to your financial advisor about this, and then they're going 71 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 2: to put you in the direction of a family lawyer, 72 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 2: be it loan agreements, be it financial agreements that you 73 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 2: may want to consider. And I think that's very important, 74 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 2: important so that you protect children with the assets that 75 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 2: they bring into a relationship. 76 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:20,040 Speaker 1: It's interesting, you know, just that issue of I suppose 77 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:24,480 Speaker 1: the how it's the house prices, the level of house 78 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:29,279 Speaker 1: prices that have sparked particular interest in this. It's always 79 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:32,360 Speaker 1: been around as a concept, but it's got an edge now, 80 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:34,719 Speaker 1: you know. I was wanted up the old joke about 81 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:36,840 Speaker 1: how do you buy a house for four hundred thousand 82 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:41,160 Speaker 1: in Sydney's North Shore? You buy it in nineteen seventy nine, 83 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: you know that's what you're saying, right. I don't know 84 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:46,040 Speaker 1: how much you paid for your house or I paid 85 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 1: for mine, but you know the figures are laughed at 86 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 1: by the people who are buying houses now, So let's 87 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 1: just keep it on that issue, and this is a 88 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: wider issue obviously, if this could be for any reason, 89 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 1: but I think obviously the core reason is very compelling. 90 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: You know why, your son or daughter will probably be 91 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:12,040 Speaker 1: in their late sixties when they get your inheritance. Statistics 92 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: would suggest, and in their late sixties if they're the 93 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:19,040 Speaker 1: type of people who are active investors, strivers, and they 94 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 1: listen to a show like this, chances are they've paid 95 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 1: their house off by then, and there was years where 96 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:29,040 Speaker 1: they had absolutely nothing, and maybe it wasn't necessary because 97 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: you were accumulating at the same time. Now, the thing 98 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: I'm skeptical about Will is this issue of financial agreements 99 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: and loan agreements and sending people to the lawyers to 100 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:45,920 Speaker 1: do this, I'm assumed. Tell me why you think this 101 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 1: is necessary and is it about keeping it literally within bloodlines? 102 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:54,839 Speaker 1: To be brutal about it. 103 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 2: I think that depending on the age of a child, 104 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 2: line agreements something you should consider now whilst the house 105 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 2: price goes up and as I said, you're protecting what 106 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:09,839 Speaker 2: they bring in. I think financial agreements are a very 107 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 2: personal thing, and we've got clients that insist on them, 108 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:15,159 Speaker 2: and we've got clients that there is no way I 109 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:17,360 Speaker 2: would ask my children to sign that, So I'm not 110 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 2: making it. It's a judgmental call, and I'm not making 111 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 2: a call either way. I think you need to discuss 112 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:25,720 Speaker 2: it and make a decision based on something that's right 113 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 2: for you and your family on a lone agreement. I 114 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:32,840 Speaker 2: think that's a very different matter. That they're not even 115 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 2: a thousand dollars for a family lawyer to prepare, and 116 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 2: you can actually provide something which I think is a 117 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:41,840 Speaker 2: safe thing to. 118 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 1: Do, but if it's a lot of agreement, you're not 119 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: giving it to them. 120 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 2: Correct, Well, that's on the depending of the structure that 121 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:50,600 Speaker 2: it's in and how it's done. That loan can then 122 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:53,559 Speaker 2: be forgone on your death. 123 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 1: I see, I see all right, So what is the 124 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 1: overarching sort of logic of these greens. It's to protect 125 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 1: your children from unexpected events in the future, such as divorce. 126 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 1: Am I close? 127 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 2: Correct? I think what the logic of these And if 128 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 2: you speak to a family lawyer, they'll say, you can protect 129 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 2: what you bring into a relationship. You can't protect what 130 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 2: you create in a relationship. That's openslaver and so it 131 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 2: should be not saying that's you should protect against that 132 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 2: you can't. You shouldn't. 133 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 1: I wonder why people don't do it. 134 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 2: Well, I think a lot of people don't know about it. 135 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 2: Thinking of an email that I got from one person. 136 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 2: It was, you know, as I said, quite emotional about 137 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 2: that because this is what happened. They gave some money 138 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 2: and then child got divorced. I was wondering, well, did 139 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 2: you know about this? And that's why sometimes you should. 140 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 2: You should go and get advice, and your financial advisor 141 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 2: discusses that with you, and then push and then put 142 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 2: will introduce you into a family lawyer that can have 143 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 2: a further discussion and then not expend financial agreements. That's 144 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 2: a different matter altogether. 145 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: I mean, we see just this morning the usual here 146 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 1: we go again, the annual sort of aspa. They all 147 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 1: do it. 148 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 2: Now. 149 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 1: How much you should have to you know, be comfortable 150 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 1: in a retirement, et cetera. And it should be seventy 151 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 1: thousand dollars a year for a couple, and that means 152 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 1: you need to have well, you certainly want to have 153 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 1: a million, you know, officially it's something like one point 154 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: six one point seven million, depending on the degree of 155 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: risk of which you take. But the point I'm leading 156 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 1: to is that at a certain point we clear off 157 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: are at a certain point we say, okay, the house 158 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: is paid off. And many investors once they have a 159 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: certain number, a certain figure in super and maybe they 160 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:44,680 Speaker 1: keep working so this figure doesn't have to be anything 161 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 1: as high as these calculators say, and many it listens 162 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: to the show, will have much more than that. But 163 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 1: I wonder is this concern about not having enough in 164 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,839 Speaker 1: retirement an issue that stops people doing it even if 165 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:06,439 Speaker 1: they have plenty, because they say, look, if the world collapses, 166 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 1: there's the markets collapse, If I'm stuck on cash rates, 167 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 1: if the banks collapse, how am I going to survive? 168 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:15,440 Speaker 1: All my retirement money is at risk. Yes, you say 169 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:17,560 Speaker 1: I have a lot, but maybe I don't really have 170 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 1: a lot because it's all at risk, and so I 171 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 1: can't hand it over just yet, because I worry still 172 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 1: that I don't know how much I'm going to cost 173 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 1: in the fullness of time. And let's say the nightmare 174 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 1: scenario where a couple are both in some sort of 175 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:35,680 Speaker 1: elaborate age care with multiple medical bills for years and years, 176 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:37,439 Speaker 1: whether they could rack up a hell of a lot 177 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:39,559 Speaker 1: of bills. The point I'm making is do you think 178 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 1: that's actually stopping people too. 179 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 2: Yes, I think that it is. As I said, everything's 180 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 2: relative and it it's personal. So I'm not saying you 181 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 2: must do this, that you do it to the extent 182 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 2: you can afford to do it. That's the first thing. 183 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 2: And I also I think it's generational. 184 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 1: No tell me about that your concept of it being 185 00:09:57,040 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 1: general intergenerational. 186 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:00,040 Speaker 2: So well, first of all, I write this because I 187 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 2: I do believes in and there's intergenerational inequality. And you 188 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 2: said that created discussion through the comment section. A lot 189 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:08,679 Speaker 2: of people didn't agree on that point. 190 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: Yes, the degree if they were perhaps under thirty. 191 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 2: Though, yeah, correct, So they didn't agree on intergenerational inequality, 192 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 2: which I do believe there is. So that's where I'm 193 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:21,680 Speaker 2: coming from, and that's what I discussed with people. But 194 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 2: I know my parents. There is no way my parents 195 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 2: would consider this because of a lot of the points 196 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 2: you brought up. My mother's in her nineties and she's worried, 197 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:33,959 Speaker 2: very worried about the cost of age care and her 198 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 2: own health. And I think that you're at a point 199 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 2: in time when you can look at this and you 200 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 2: can look at it objectively. There's other things where there's 201 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 2: other points in your life when you're focused on other things. 202 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 2: And as I stress, to the extent that you can 203 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 2: afford it, And I understand some people can afford to 204 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 2: a far greater degree than others. 205 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 1: And I suppose the imperative that drives people to make 206 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 1: money was in conflict with the different dynamic of giving 207 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 1: it away in many cases. Whereas will that be relevant 208 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:08,199 Speaker 1: apart from homebuying? 209 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 2: Was I said in the article, and this again, I 210 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:13,680 Speaker 2: believe in it a lot of the things Bill Perkins said, 211 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 2: But I just want to stress in the book I 212 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 2: was zero, But I do want to stress in the 213 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 2: book he's obviously a very wealthy man and that comes 214 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 2: across so you have to adjust for that. And he's American, 215 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 2: so we have to bring it into a cultural perspective. 216 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 2: But I also think the thing on creating experiences to 217 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:30,959 Speaker 2: again the extent you can afford it. So if you 218 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:34,720 Speaker 2: can afford to create experiences with children and grandchildren and memories, 219 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 2: as he says, memories really important. So those experiences lead 220 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:41,679 Speaker 2: to memories, you know, because the one reality is we're 221 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 2: not going to be here one day. And I think 222 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 2: that's I thought that was a really lovely thing, and 223 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 2: I thought that was it really resonated with me. And 224 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:51,560 Speaker 2: the other thing is again and some people don't agree 225 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:54,199 Speaker 2: with private school education as well, and that came back 226 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 2: in the feedback I got. But if it is important, 227 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 2: you know, education is you know, there's nothing more in 228 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 2: a chance life is education, be it secondary education or 229 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:09,840 Speaker 2: tertiary education. And I know one of our clients is 230 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 2: very philanthropic in ensuring that those that wouldn't ordinarily be 231 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 2: able to go to university can and he gives through 232 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:21,600 Speaker 2: Melbourne University on that and I think he's it's lovely 233 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 2: what he does. 234 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 1: So typically this would end up being not it's obviously 235 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 1: two days anyway for some investors to pay for their 236 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 1: own children. By the time they get to the position 237 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 1: we're talking about, their children will have had their school experience, 238 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 1: whatever that might have been, and however that much that 239 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 1: might have cast. So we're talking about grandchildren often. And 240 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: it's interesting. We've got a question coming up at the 241 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 1: breakfromt Sandral exactly about this, but on that one, is 242 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 1: there any guidance you can give on that you mentioned 243 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 1: about long agreements with lawyers for buying homes or perhaps 244 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 1: assisting with the Dan Holmes I am actually, which is 245 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 1: typically that someone pays ten percent of what the house 246 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:06,319 Speaker 1: is going to be. How about on the schools on 247 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:07,079 Speaker 1: the ideas on that. 248 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 2: One, someone once said to me, if you can find 249 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 2: an investment that's linked to the CPI of school, phees, 250 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 2: go for it. 251 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 1: CPI of school is an illegal zone. 252 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:17,720 Speaker 2: Because exactly that. So, yeah, it's a friend of mine 253 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:19,080 Speaker 2: and Sydney and he once said that to me, and 254 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:21,560 Speaker 2: I always laughed, and I've quoted that often what he said. 255 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 1: It's more relevant every year. 256 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 2: So there are bonds or education bonds and things like 257 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 2: that which you can buy or you can just put 258 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 2: something away, depending on again, to the extent that you 259 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 2: can afford it. And that's what these are, the sum 260 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 2: of things which I think you can consider. I'm not 261 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:39,559 Speaker 2: saying you should, but you can. 262 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:41,560 Speaker 1: Just one last thing on this before the break. We've 263 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:44,080 Speaker 1: had a lot of people on the show skeptical of 264 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 1: education bonds. I am too, You are too, okay, So 265 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:54,080 Speaker 1: your point is perhaps to have a saving sphere correct 266 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 1: that is focused on this issue, but it does not 267 00:13:57,360 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 1: necessarily have to be an education bond. And the fint 268 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 1: I always make on the show folks. Is they called 269 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 1: education bonds but they are nothing to do with education 270 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 1: per sale. They are marketed as such, and it's a scheme, 271 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:11,319 Speaker 1: but it wasn't designed for paying school fees. It has 272 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 1: been adopted as such, but that was not its core. 273 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:16,680 Speaker 1: All right, really interesting. I've got some really good questions 274 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: I want to get to and I've kept them for Will, 275 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 1: who is a regular on the show and a lot 276 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 1: of our listeners are keen obviously to get items in 277 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 1: front of him. So back in a moment, Hello, and 278 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 1: welcome back to The Australian's Money Puzzle podcast. James Kirby 279 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 1: talking to Will Hamilton as I'm going to do this 280 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 1: question second into two parts, folks, because there's two different 281 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 1: themes that i want to pick up on. But just quickly, 282 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 1: I had a question which came in later actually, and 283 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 1: it's from Lily who says I can't keep up with 284 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: the number of grants for first home buyers. But I 285 00:14:56,920 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 1: see now that the latest grant for shared equity has 286 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:05,880 Speaker 1: come out, but of course it has been surpassed by 287 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 1: the first home buyers scheme. At the same time, we've 288 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: seen lending limits imposed by the banks in the same 289 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 1: area what gives. Yeah, thank you Lily. 290 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. 291 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 1: So they're putting lending limits exactly on the same people 292 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 1: who are trying to buy a house, because the ones 293 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: who need to go over five or six times income 294 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 1: will substantially be made up of first home buyers. And 295 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: then they're rolling out grants a universal first home deposit scheme, 296 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 1: which is going so hot, folks, it's going so hot 297 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 1: that the banks are putting over they're doing overtime in 298 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 1: the departments of the banks trying to fill this out. 299 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 1: And we're getting a super hot segment of the market, 300 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 1: which ironically is the exact same market they're throwing the 301 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 1: grand set. 302 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 2: What do you think will It's like, look got enough. 303 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 2: It still exists, but I haven't looked at it. But 304 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 2: a couple of years ago, the Victorian pite government gave 305 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 2: stamp duty real life up to six hundred thousand dollars, 306 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 2: and the minuteure went over six hundred thousand dollars, you 307 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 2: had to pay the full stamp duty. So thing you 308 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 2: give when you don't give, And yeah, this is I 309 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 2: do believe the federal government's latest equity share scheme that's 310 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 2: absolutely pushed housing prices up. It can't not have the 311 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 2: way they've structured it up to a million dollars and 312 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 2: you shared equity. That's with a five percent deposit down. 313 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 2: That's simple as it was only going to do that. 314 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 1: But the other thing I worry about too is that 315 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 1: like it overheats that particular secret action. Not only that, 316 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 1: but like the whole market gets skewed to that segment, 317 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 1: to this economic theory of push to price. 318 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 2: You know that they actually it's misthought. It was a 319 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 2: thought bubble during the election that they've had to rolla 320 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 2: leading into the election. 321 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 1: Hm hm, okay, well, Lily, I hope that's useful to you. 322 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 1: All those grants are there. And by the way, there's 323 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: also the first Home super Service scheme, which I think 324 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 1: this government are very keen to to not advertise because 325 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 1: they don't like it. I don't think they like it all. 326 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 1: Right now, listen, folks, we got to hear. I want 327 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:06,120 Speaker 1: you to listen to this very carefully, right because it's 328 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:10,119 Speaker 1: come up again and again from listeners, and it's about 329 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 1: super annuation caps and how much you can have and 330 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:16,640 Speaker 1: at what point various taxes kick in, like the new 331 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 1: super at the new super tax at fifteen percent above 332 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:23,440 Speaker 1: three million. But here's David. This is what he says. 333 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:27,920 Speaker 1: Someone on the show mentioned that, based on current legislation, 334 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 1: the amount in the pension account can increase tax free 335 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 1: without limit. I want to know, is he right? If 336 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:39,640 Speaker 1: I retire at sixty and I transfer two million into 337 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 1: my pension account, and assuming this balance grows yearly, the 338 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 1: full amount in the pension account will always be tax free. 339 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:51,359 Speaker 1: The fifteen percent tax coming in at division two nine 340 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:55,200 Speaker 1: six does not apply to this the pension amount. Okay, 341 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:59,679 Speaker 1: just to reiterate, the day you retire, if you have 342 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:03,920 Speaker 1: up to two million, that once it's in the box, basically, 343 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:08,880 Speaker 1: once it's in the can inside the supersystem the TBC. 344 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 1: To be precise, it won't be taxed even if it 345 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:14,880 Speaker 1: grows to three million, four million, yep? Right or wrong? 346 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 2: Right? In fact, Thomas asks a question where he answers. 347 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 2: He answers it in his question itself and that that's interesting, 348 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 2: And he says, Jim Chalmers, I only talked about division 349 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 2: two nine six, which is fifteen percent on tesB more 350 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 2: than three million. The situation of between two and three 351 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:34,920 Speaker 2: million appears been overinterpreted. So if I have two point 352 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:37,680 Speaker 2: four million in super phase I transfer two million into 353 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:40,440 Speaker 2: account based pension at the age of sixty five, I 354 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,920 Speaker 2: will have to leave four hundred into the accumulation phase. Correct, 355 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 2: that's if you convinced on that. But my two million 356 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 2: retirement phase can grow to organically, he says two point 357 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 2: four million, and the earnings is tax free, not fifteen percent. Correct. Correct. 358 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's just a final word on that, folks. Okay, 359 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:04,400 Speaker 1: that's how it works. The fifteen percent tax, the new 360 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,879 Speaker 1: one is on amounts above three million. And so for instance, 361 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 1: how that might occur is, for instance, if you had 362 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 1: three million this, if you had four million the day 363 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 1: you retire, well that only two of that would go 364 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:23,239 Speaker 1: into that can grow forever and never be taxes. That's right. 365 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, you got to an accumulation phase and. 366 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:26,720 Speaker 1: The other two well, you can do what you like 367 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:28,200 Speaker 1: with it. You're probably going to let it fall into 368 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:32,160 Speaker 1: accumulation because it's it becomes fifteen and that's hard to beat. Okay, 369 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 1: very interesting. Of course, there are people who also have 370 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:38,200 Speaker 1: more than two million, and they haven't even retired. They're 371 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 1: relevant two. So we try to cover all angles here. 372 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 1: This is easier sometimes, folks, to pin down in in 373 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,480 Speaker 1: print than it is when we're talking. Because it's a print. 374 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: J Obvis is more precise. All right. I have very 375 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,360 Speaker 1: interesting question from Sandra which is on the theme that 376 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:57,280 Speaker 1: we'll started with, so we'll come back to that one second. 377 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 1: Hello and welcome back to The Australian's Money Puzzle podcast. 378 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:16,920 Speaker 1: James Kirby talking to Will Hamilton. Okay, Will, question from 379 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:20,399 Speaker 1: Sandro which does kind of correspond or echo some of 380 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 1: the issues we talked about at the start of the 381 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:26,200 Speaker 1: show about leaving the extreme version of dying with zero. 382 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 1: But it's not, of course dying with zero. It's about 383 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 1: thinking about whether you should help people in your life 384 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:38,200 Speaker 1: earlier rather than later. Sandro, I want to invest for 385 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:41,360 Speaker 1: my grandchildren. My initial thoughts are to add approximately two 386 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:45,440 Speaker 1: thousand per child annually on their birthday into the ASX 387 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 1: two hundred and etf. I suppose that is or something 388 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:51,719 Speaker 1: similar and this should compound to something significant in twenty 389 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 1: years when they go to buy a house. I'm interested 390 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 1: in some ideas and strategies on how to set this 391 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 1: up the most cost effective and today who was named 392 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:05,960 Speaker 1: should be in most tax effective way, et cetera. Any 393 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: information would be much appreciated. Okay, sandral not you say 394 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 1: you will. 395 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 2: Yes, So first of all, Sandra, go and talk to 396 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 2: an accountant. I presume they might to ask you to 397 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 2: set this up in your name, in the parents' name, 398 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:23,880 Speaker 2: as in trust for the children. That's the first thing. 399 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 2: So just otherwise that there is tax at the full 400 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,399 Speaker 2: marginal rate for children, so you might just want to 401 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:32,919 Speaker 2: get some tax advice on that. First of all. The 402 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,880 Speaker 2: second thing is I wouldn't put it into an Australian ETF. 403 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 2: I would look as a global equity one. For instance, 404 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 2: we're now one point six percent of the MSCI aqui 405 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 2: that is Australia to invest in the other ninety eight 406 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:50,119 Speaker 2: point four percent not necessarily, just one point six percent 407 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:52,680 Speaker 2: of global equity markets. And yeah, this strange share market 408 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 2: is going to close out effectively square this year as 409 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 2: against global markets because it's the global markets. They've got 410 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,720 Speaker 2: growth in other parts. So that's the second thing I 411 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 2: would do is just make sure you invest globally rather 412 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 2: than just domestically. 413 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:09,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, very good, and of course not advice Candra, just 414 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 1: to information only, but those global indusies they're easy to 415 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:16,400 Speaker 1: get to. Just remember, and when we talks about MSCI, 416 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 1: that's the Morgan, Sandy, Capitol, International, Indicies and a lot 417 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,439 Speaker 1: of the global ets run off that as they should. 418 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 1: But also keep in mind that what's the number now, 419 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:32,960 Speaker 1: sixty four percent or so? Oh yeah, it's actually US, yes, yeah, yeah. 420 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:34,879 Speaker 1: So you know the fact is you're the majority of 421 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 1: your money will be on Wall Street, but that varies 422 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:39,639 Speaker 1: over the year central and there's times for that's been 423 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 1: an undred and fifty percent, but in recent times it 424 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:46,879 Speaker 1: has absolutely just mushroomed inside the global markets to some 425 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:51,160 Speaker 1: extent that reflects a certain dullness in Japan, Australia, even 426 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,399 Speaker 1: that Europe over various years as the US and the 427 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:56,960 Speaker 1: big tech companies just went through the roof and still 428 00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 1: do with the AI boom. All right. Now, on question 429 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:04,160 Speaker 1: is from shown but the shau n I wonder could 430 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 1: you consider doing a segment giving all the accounting maneuvers 431 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:13,880 Speaker 1: and profit shifting that companies use, why don't governments consider 432 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:18,159 Speaker 1: replacing corporate tax within universal revenue tax. That way, the 433 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 1: economic activity that takes place within Australia It's borders will 434 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 1: be taxed here, not when the company chooses to record 435 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 1: its profits something I mean, obviously, the sentiment is a 436 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 1: noble sentiment there shown, and in fact, a lot of 437 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,919 Speaker 1: economists wouldn't have a problem with your concept, And indeed, 438 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 1: the Productivity Commission has recently put out something similar to that, 439 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 1: which is a sort of is it a cashflow tax? 440 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 1: Is that the idea will that they would. 441 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 2: Yep, that's Look. I think what Sean said has some merit, 442 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 2: but the reality is that unless you get both sides 443 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:57,679 Speaker 2: of politics together, we're not going to tackle the inequity 444 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,480 Speaker 2: that there is in a tax system. And one of 445 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:02,119 Speaker 2: the big things that we need to tackle in this 446 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:06,439 Speaker 2: tax system is the paya and the hYP percentage of 447 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:11,680 Speaker 2: total taxation rays through that which is not indexed, unlike 448 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:16,400 Speaker 2: in some countries, and therefore we have bracket creep as 449 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 2: well as a major issue. So look, a whole tax system. 450 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 2: The taxac was written in nineteen thirty six. I think 451 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 2: that says it all, and both sides of politics should 452 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 2: get together on a bipartisan basis and tackle this. 453 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 1: And we're inordinately tax taxing people. Correct, individuals get taxed. 454 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:37,680 Speaker 1: They carry the whole system, which is of course working individuals. 455 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:41,200 Speaker 1: That is which brings us back to the very notion 456 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 1: at the start of the show. About inequity and how 457 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:46,919 Speaker 1: even inside SUPER like people say, oh super is all 458 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 1: about you know, it's unfair because of the tax breaks 459 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 1: for older people. But it's unfair even inside the system 460 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:57,639 Speaker 1: because the concession of tax breaks for contributing to SUPER 461 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 1: are they are low and they have moved for years. Meanwhile, 462 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 1: the amount you can have gets in mixed all the time, 463 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,720 Speaker 1: not to mention the pension which gets index twice a year. 464 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 1: So there is plenty of inequity even within SUPER and 465 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 1: intergeneration in equity at that. But in your case, folks, 466 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: I think if you've been listening to the show today, 467 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 1: I think there was a really interesting notion there and 468 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 1: something that's really worth considering. And honestly, even on a 469 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 1: more pragmatic basi as well, what is the point in 470 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 1: hanging on to your investment property for three more years 471 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 1: if the money is supposed to go to your adult 472 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,440 Speaker 1: children who are trying to buy a house. That would 473 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 1: be at that would be in sort of microcosm, wouldn't 474 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:40,000 Speaker 1: it really? 475 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 2: And as I say to people, it's the pleasure of 476 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,679 Speaker 2: giving as well when you can, you know, and want 477 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 2: to stress if you can afford it, that pleasure of 478 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:51,919 Speaker 2: helping and giving and saying that reaction and that the 479 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 2: gratitude from giving, and you know, it was a very 480 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:59,680 Speaker 2: big discussion. I talked about the fact that intergenerationally, those 481 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 2: that are of an older generation, this is far more difficult. 482 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 2: And I actually talked to a woman in the late 483 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:06,960 Speaker 2: eighties to do this, and I said, look, you've got 484 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:10,200 Speaker 2: no gratitude personally from it when you're dead, why don't 485 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 2: you do it now? And as I said in the article, 486 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 2: some of the grandchildren were in tears and she got 487 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:18,919 Speaker 2: incredible satisfaction from that. 488 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:22,879 Speaker 1: Yes, it's interesting, isn't it. As you say, there's no 489 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,120 Speaker 1: point letting them know that you were really okay when 490 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 1: you're gone. Okay, thank you very much. Well, great show, 491 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 1: Thank you James, great discussion. As always, I'd like to 492 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 1: know what you think of that, folks, I really would. 493 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 1: So let's let's hear from you the money Puzzle at 494 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,359 Speaker 1: the Australian dot com dot au. Talk you soon.