WEBVTT - The Trial: Ballots and deliberations 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:03.240 After forty days, the jury in the trial of Aaron 0:00:03.360 --> 0:00:07.600 Patterson was ready to deliberate. But before that could happen, 0:00:07.840 --> 0:00:11.720 the Associate to Justice Christopher Bill how a box over 0:00:11.800 --> 0:00:16.239 his head. He shuffled some papers inside, pulled out two 0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:19.239 and read what was on them to the court. What 0:00:19.440 --> 0:00:21.800 was on these papers were numbers. 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:27.480 Dura one oh five, Dura one oh six. 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:31.319 These were the numbers of the two jurors who would 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:35.240 no longer be required. They handed in their court iPads 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:38.880 and left. And with that the jury of seven men 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:42.800 and five women retired to consider their verdicts, the fate 0:00:43.000 --> 0:00:47.880 of Aaron Patterson in their hands. I'm Brooke Greebert Craig, 0:00:48.320 --> 0:00:53.840 and this is the Mushroom Cook. It's the start of 0:00:53.920 --> 0:00:57.440 week ten of Aaron Patterson's murder trial, and once again 0:00:57.560 --> 0:01:01.880 I'm joined by my colleague, court reporter Laura Plaseller, and. 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:04.640 We're coming to our listeners from our new podcast studio. 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:08.399 We had to shift Airbnbs, so we've set up in 0:01:08.480 --> 0:01:11.280 a new place here, inter realgen So if we sound 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:12.920 a little bit different, that's why. 0:01:13.080 --> 0:01:15.880 It almost feels strange after forty episodes to be in 0:01:15.920 --> 0:01:19.000 a new place. But here we are and let's get started. 0:01:19.600 --> 0:01:22.080 So listeners would have heard at the start of the 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:26.600 episode about the ballot process where fourteen jurors got cut 0:01:26.640 --> 0:01:29.600 to twelve, but we'll speak more on that a bit later. 0:01:30.319 --> 0:01:33.600 First up today, Justice Bill continued his charge to the 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:37.600 jury and returned to the topic of credit lies alleged 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:41.319 by the prosecution last week. He explained to the jury 0:01:41.360 --> 0:01:44.480 that credit lies can only be used to assess and 0:01:44.600 --> 0:01:48.400 accuse credibility and cannot be used as evidence they committed 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:49.160 the offenses. 0:01:49.800 --> 0:01:52.880 Our listeners may remember that Justice Beal said last week 0:01:52.920 --> 0:01:55.880 that there were four credit lies alleged by the prosecution. 0:01:56.600 --> 0:01:59.760 The first was erin lying to police about being very 0:01:59.840 --> 0:02:03.720 very helpful during the Department of Health investigation, and today 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:06.880 he touched on the remaining three. He said the prosecution 0:02:07.000 --> 0:02:10.400 also alleged that Aaron lied about the reason she invited 0:02:10.400 --> 0:02:13.519 her guests to the lunch, lied about what she said 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:17.480 at the lunch about ovarian cancer, and lied about planning 0:02:17.480 --> 0:02:21.320 to undergo gastric bypass surgery at the Enrich Clinic in Melbourne. 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:24.480 Justice Bill then moved on to how the jury can 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:27.480 use the alleged credit lies if they find them to 0:02:27.600 --> 0:02:30.720 be lies. He said, they can be used to determine 0:02:30.760 --> 0:02:34.040 whether the other things Aaron said to other witnesses and 0:02:34.120 --> 0:02:37.920 during her testimony were true. He warned the jury not 0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:40.800 to reason that simply because a person is shown to 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:45.760 have told lies, they must be guilty. After this, Justice 0:02:45.760 --> 0:02:50.959 Bill moved on to circumstantial or indirect evidence versus direct evidence. 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:54.079 He said it was not safe in a criminal trial 0:02:54.240 --> 0:02:56.320 for a jury to engage in guesswork. 0:02:56.840 --> 0:02:59.560 He returned to the analogy used by the prosecution in 0:02:59.600 --> 0:03:03.200 its close address in relation to thinking about the evidence 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:06.880 as puzzle pieces, but this was something that defense barrister 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:10.359 Colin Mandy took some issue with in his own closing address, 0:03:11.040 --> 0:03:13.880 so before reiterating the analogy, he actually said it was 0:03:13.919 --> 0:03:16.800 at the risk of upsetting mister Mandy, which prompted some 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:20.160 laughs around the courtroom. This is more of what he said. 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:23.120 These are his words, but not his voice. 0:03:23.720 --> 0:03:26.840 While one piece may not be very helpful by itself, 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:29.600 when all the pieces are put together, the picture may 0:03:29.639 --> 0:03:34.080 become clear. However, when putting all the pieces together, you 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:36.880 must take care not to jump to conclusions. 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:39.840 Justice Bill then reminded the jurors that they must be 0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:44.960 satisfied that the prosecution has proved its case beyond reasonable doubt, 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:48.480 but he added that it was almost impossible to prove 0:03:48.560 --> 0:03:51.640 anything with absolute certainty, and that was not what the 0:03:51.680 --> 0:03:53.440 prosecution were being required to do. 0:03:54.160 --> 0:03:58.080 A reasonable doubt is not an imaginary or fanciful doubt 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:03.000 or an unrealistic possible. You cannot be satisfied that the 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:05.640 accused is guilty of an offense if you have a 0:04:05.680 --> 0:04:08.600 reasonable doubt about whether she is guilty of the offense. 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:11.960 Justice Spill then went on to speak about motive. He 0:04:12.120 --> 0:04:15.280 reminded the jury that the prosecution does not need to 0:04:15.400 --> 0:04:19.520 prove motive, only the elements of murder and attempted murder, 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:22.000 but he added that did not mean a lack of 0:04:22.080 --> 0:04:25.640 evidence of motive is irrelevant. Here's what he said. 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:28.920 It is a relevant consideration which you must take into 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:32.400 account in the accused's favor when weighing all the evidence 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:35.800 in this case. Moreover, if you find the accused had 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:38.120 good reasons not to kill or attempt to kill her 0:04:38.200 --> 0:04:41.400 lunch guests, in short, she had a motive not to 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:45.640 commit the alleged offenses, that is a significant consideration. 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:49.839 Justice Spill said to find Erring guilty of murder, her 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:53.560 conduct must have been conscious, voluntary, and deliberate. 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:56.479 When running through the elements of murder, he started with 0:04:56.560 --> 0:05:00.839 consciousness and said that this element excludes the acts of 0:05:00.880 --> 0:05:05.240 an unconscious person, for example, someone who was sleepwalking. He 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:09.000 then moved on to voluntariness. He said this excluded conduct 0:05:09.160 --> 0:05:11.960 where someone was not in control of their own actions. 0:05:12.680 --> 0:05:16.400 Turning to deliberateness, he said this element means that the 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:20.159 accused conduct cannot be an accident. It was at this 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:23.360 point that he reminded the jury that the defense claim 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:26.479 that this was the element that had not been satisfied. 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:29.960 They say that Aaron added the death cut mushrooms into 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:31.280 the meal by accident. 0:05:31.920 --> 0:05:35.480 Turning to the final element, which was intention, Justice spil 0:05:35.520 --> 0:05:39.560 said the prosecution must prove beyond reasonable doubt that at 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:43.400 the time Aaron served up Beef Wellington's she intended to 0:05:43.520 --> 0:05:46.760 kill her guests or cause them really serious injury. 0:05:47.520 --> 0:05:50.520 The prosecution contends that you should infer from the evidence 0:05:50.560 --> 0:05:53.760 that Aaron Patterson had the appropriate state of minds at 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:54.799 the relevant time. 0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:58.040 He reminded the jury that this was also an element 0:05:58.080 --> 0:06:01.400 that the defense says has not been so satisfied. They 0:06:01.480 --> 0:06:03.919 say that Aaron did not have an intention to kill, 0:06:04.440 --> 0:06:07.000 but rather she actually had a motive to keep these 0:06:07.000 --> 0:06:10.599 people in her life. Justice Bill explained that a person's 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:13.400 intention can be inferred from what they said and what 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:16.400 they did, as well as what they failed to say 0:06:16.600 --> 0:06:19.280 and failed to do. He told the jury that they 0:06:19.320 --> 0:06:23.080 can consider Erin's actions both before, at the time of 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:26.640 and after the lunch, but he said if they had 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:29.960 any doubts, the benefit of those doubts must be given 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:32.960 to the accused. I will note at this point Brook 0:06:33.279 --> 0:06:36.000 that the jury was not instructed by Justice Biale to 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:39.839 consider the alternate charge of manslaughder, meaning that in this 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:42.920 case they will only be able to return a guilty 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:45.720 or not guilty verdict in relation to the charge of 0:06:45.800 --> 0:06:47.280 murder and attempted murder. 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:50.960 On that topic of attempted murder, Justice Spiel said the 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:55.520 alleged conduct must have been more than merely preparatory immediately 0:06:55.640 --> 0:06:59.600 and not remotely connected with Ian Wilkinson's illness, and then 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:01.880 must been an intention to kill. 0:07:02.279 --> 0:07:04.520 Justice phil said it was not in dispute that Ian 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:07.680 came very close to dying, and that Aaron's conduct in 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:10.880 serving him a poisoned beef Wellington was more than merely 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:15.360 preparatory and not remotely connected to causing his illness. He 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:19.520 added that for an attempted murder charge, the intention, unlike murder, 0:07:20.040 --> 0:07:23.680 is nothing less than an intention to kill. Intent to 0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:26.760 cause really serious injury is not enough, he explained. 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:30.320 Justice Bill then turned to summarizing the issues in the 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:34.320 case and the related evidence. He said the first issue 0:07:34.360 --> 0:07:37.559 related to whether Aaron had good reasons to not kill 0:07:37.680 --> 0:07:39.560 her lunch guests in. 0:07:39.520 --> 0:07:42.480 A similar fashion to what he did last week. Justice 0:07:42.520 --> 0:07:46.080 Bill took the jury back to the evidence. He reminded 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:49.200 them of the Facebook messages Aaron sent her online friends 0:07:49.640 --> 0:07:52.840 about her in laws in December twenty twenty two. As 0:07:52.840 --> 0:07:56.560 I'm sure our listeners remember, these messages included the phrases 0:07:57.040 --> 0:08:00.320 this family, I swear to God and at LA least 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:03.160 I know they are a lost cause. Turning to the 0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:07.920 prosecution argument, Justice Bill said that Crown Prosecutor Nnette Rodgers 0:08:08.440 --> 0:08:12.560 argued that sometimes the internal motivations for murders are only 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:16.680 known to the murderer themselves. Using her words, he told 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:19.240 the jury, you don't have to know why a person 0:08:19.360 --> 0:08:22.880 does something in order to know they did it. On 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:26.160 the other hand, Justice Bill said the defense questioned why 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:28.760 Aaron would want to kill her in laws, giving they 0:08:28.800 --> 0:08:30.640 were her children's only grandparents. 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:31.480 He said. 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:34.160 They also questioned why Aaron would commit murder when she 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:36.400 was in a good place at the time in July 0:08:36.480 --> 0:08:39.560 twenty twenty three and would have surely known that suspicion 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:41.480 would fall on her as the cook of the meal. 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:45.960 Justice Bill said the second issue related to Aaron's tendency 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:50.040 to forage for mushrooms, referring the jury to the directions 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:53.360 he gave them on this topic last week. He then 0:08:53.440 --> 0:08:56.240 moved on to the third issue, related to why Aaron 0:08:56.360 --> 0:09:00.880 cooked individual beef Wellington's. Here reminded the Jews that Aaron 0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:04.679 said she used a best selling recipe Tin Eats cookbook 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:08.079 that called for a beef wellington log, but he. 0:09:08.080 --> 0:09:10.840 Told the jury that Aaron testified that she deviated from 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:14.079 this recipe because she could not find a beef tenderloin 0:09:14.320 --> 0:09:17.840 or a log in her local area. Turning to the arguments, 0:09:17.880 --> 0:09:21.080 he said the prosecution claimed that Aaron cooked individual beef 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:24.800 Wellington's because it was critical for her to maintain control 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:27.280 over the meal and to make sure she did not 0:09:27.360 --> 0:09:30.320 consume a serve laced with death caps. He said. The 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:33.560 prosecution also questioned why she would deviate from a recipe 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:36.760 she had never cooked before. He then flagged that the 0:09:36.800 --> 0:09:39.640 defense did not discuss this topic in its closing address. 0:09:40.400 --> 0:09:43.360 Justice Bill then turned to the fourth issue, related to 0:09:43.400 --> 0:09:47.480 whether Aaron served the lunch on different colored plates. He 0:09:47.559 --> 0:09:51.680 once again returned to Ian Wilkinson's evidence about the colored plates, 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:54.600 where Ian told the jury that the guests ate from 0:09:54.760 --> 0:09:58.640 larger gray plates while Aaron herself ate from a smaller 0:09:58.800 --> 0:09:59.920 orange tan plate. 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:03.960 Justice Beale, so the prosecution argued that Ian was a 0:10:04.000 --> 0:10:07.640 compelling and reliable witness who had no doubt about what 0:10:07.760 --> 0:10:11.640 he had seen, he said. The prosecution also argued that 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:15.040 Heather backed up Ian's claim when she told Simon that 0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:18.360 she remembered Erin serving the meal on different colored plates. 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:21.600 On the other hand, Justice Bill said that the defense 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:24.360 argued that it would have been smarter for Erin if 0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:27.000 she was planning to commit a murder to mark the 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:30.679 pastry of the non poisonous beef Wellington before putting them 0:10:30.679 --> 0:10:33.559 all in the oven. Justice Bill added that the defense 0:10:33.640 --> 0:10:36.920 also said that on her evidence, Erin didn't own any 0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:40.200 gray plates and also said she didn't own a matching 0:10:40.240 --> 0:10:40.920 set of plates. 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:45.120 Justice Bill then spoke about the fifth issue, related to 0:10:45.160 --> 0:10:47.320 whether Aaron allocated the plates. 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:50.960 He said the prosecution argued that she allocated her own 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:53.280 plate by picking it up and carrying it to the 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:57.040 table on Ian's evidence, but the defense argued that without 0:10:57.080 --> 0:10:59.960 being told, Gail and Heather picked up two plates EA 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:03.760 and carried them to the table in accordance with Aaron's testimony. 0:11:04.280 --> 0:11:07.280 He said the sixth and final issue related to whether 0:11:07.400 --> 0:11:11.840 Aaron engaged in incriminating conduct, referring the jury to the 0:11:11.920 --> 0:11:16.200 directions he gave them on this topic last week. Soon after, 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:19.920 Justice Bilm moved onto the final topic of his charge, 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:24.520 the verdict. He told the jurors their decision must be unanimous. 0:11:24.880 --> 0:11:28.040 He said, all twelve jurors must agree on each of 0:11:28.080 --> 0:11:31.960 the four separate charges that Aaron is guilty or not guilty. 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:35.640 Justice Bill then said, the jury will be sequestered to 0:11:35.720 --> 0:11:36.280 a hotel. 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:40.760 While you are sequestered, locked up. You'll deliberate Mondays to 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:43.680 Saturdays here at the court in the privacy of the 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:47.600 jury room. You will not deliberate on Sundays, but you'll 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:51.040 still be sequested. You don't get to go home on Sundays. 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:51.600 I'm sorry. 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:56.120 Justice Bill explained that once they reach their verdicts, they 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:58.920 can push a buzzer in the jury room and all 0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:02.800 the parties, include the prosecution and defense, will be notified 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:03.880 to return to court. 0:12:04.440 --> 0:12:07.080 It was then time for the ballot. As our listeners 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:09.800 will remember, there were fifteen jurors at the start of 0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:13.760 the trial. Then one got dismissed, so fourteen jurors came 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:16.680 into court today. That that was cut to twelve because 0:12:16.679 --> 0:12:20.520 in trials only twelve jurors decide the fate of the accused. 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:25.480 Before the two jurors were balloted off, Justice Bill thanked them. 0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:26.920 Here's what he said. 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:29.840 Can I say a very warm thank you to those 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:32.960 two people who will be balloted off. I don't know 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:36.320 if you'll feel relieved or frustrated, but be assured you 0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:40.080 have made an important contribution to the administration of justice 0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:41.360 through your service. 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:44.160 As our listeners heard at the top of the episode, 0:12:44.480 --> 0:12:47.280 the associate to Justice Beal then rose to his feet 0:12:47.520 --> 0:12:51.240 with that box with everyone's number inside before he called 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:54.040 out for during number one hundred and five and number 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:58.000 one hundred and six. These were two male jurors. They 0:12:58.040 --> 0:13:00.960 stood up made their way up out of the jury box, 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:04.000 handed in their jury iPads, and then they were escorted 0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:06.839 out of the courtroom. The remainder of the jurors then 0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:09.960 took an oath or an affirmation to not discuss the 0:13:10.040 --> 0:13:13.120 case with anyone else. It was at this point that 0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:16.480 they retired to consider their verdicts. So the ballot took 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:20.080 place at one pm. Justice Bill told the jury that 0:13:20.120 --> 0:13:22.200 they had lunch waiting for them in the jury room. 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:25.720 After that the weight really began. Two hours went by 0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:28.280 and by the time it got to four pm no 0:13:28.440 --> 0:13:31.360 verdict had been reached. The jury were brought back into 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:34.559 the courtroom, where Justice Beal wished them a pleasant break 0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:37.920 tonight after a long day. The juriors all brought their 0:13:38.000 --> 0:13:41.880 luggage to court today and after Justice Beal bid them farewell. 0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:44.559 They would have been busted to the local hotel where 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:47.640 they're staying at and will spend the night together, but 0:13:47.720 --> 0:13:50.240 he gave them very strict instructions that they should not 0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:53.439 be deliberating or discussing the case while they're at the hotel. 0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:57.400 Those discussions are meant for the jury room. They will 0:13:57.440 --> 0:14:01.320 returned to court tomorrow before ten thirty am to recommence 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:02.240 their deliberations. 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:05.479 So now it's really just a waiting game, isn't it, Laura. 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:08.280 It really is. We have no idea how long it 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:09.760 will take this jury to reach their 0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:13.400 Verdicts, and while we wait, we will flag that we 0:14:13.480 --> 0:14:16.440 don't know when our next episode will be, So make 0:14:16.480 --> 0:14:19.680 sure you follow the show wherever you are listening to 0:14:19.760 --> 0:14:20.480 the podcast