1 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:06,280 Speaker 1: I think it is missing from our sex education is, 2 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:08,480 Speaker 1: of course, the conversation. 3 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:12,120 Speaker 2: About respect, fun, pleasure, and communication. 4 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: So I am not surprised that young people are going 5 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 1: out into the world as young adults wondering about how 6 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:20,919 Speaker 1: they can make sex as safe as possible, but not 7 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 1: really asking questions about pleasure. 8 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 3: Hello, and welcome to the heart of it. We would 9 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:34,279 Speaker 3: like to acknowledge the Gadigor people of the urination that 10 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 3: we record this podcast on today and give respect to 11 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:43,520 Speaker 3: their elders, both past and present. A real interesting chat 12 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 3: we've had. Hey, honey, was scram I'm all of us, 13 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 3: you're all abous. 14 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 4: Who knows? I just you know. We talked to sexologists 15 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 4: psychologist law Elee, and she put things very differently today, 16 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:04,400 Speaker 4: and it's just yeah, So I'm quite excited at some 17 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 4: of the things that I think, dare I say, we 18 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 4: can implement. 19 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 3: And not necessarily sex, no, but hopefully leading to it. No, No, 20 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 3: I think I know what you're talking about. I think 21 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 3: when she was talking about like admiration and connecting to 22 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 3: your senses, I loved that. Yes, I loved that. I 23 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 3: thought that was really great. And she talks about which 24 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 3: I think women will very much understand disconnecting from your body. 25 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:37,279 Speaker 3: I think men do as well, but I know women 26 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 3: disconnect from often quite a young age due to their 27 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:45,320 Speaker 3: cycle when they've got to push through pain and they've 28 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 3: got to disconnect and disconnect because they know they have 29 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 3: to still go to school even though they've got period cramps, 30 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 3: or go to work with endometriosis, or there's a lot 31 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 3: of disconnecting that we often have to do from our 32 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 3: bodily functions in a way. And I think when she 33 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 3: mentioned that about a way to reconnect to your body, 34 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 3: she had me. She had me on that. 35 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 4: One, yeah, because it was sort of it was sort 36 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 4: of checked back in and with yourself. It's almost like 37 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:12,359 Speaker 4: that meditation sort of idea of checking back in and 38 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 4: being more aware of your senses. And I loved it 39 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 4: when she said, I mean, she'll say it more, but 40 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 4: it's not so much how you look. It's more about 41 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 4: how you feel and being with that idea. And I 42 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 4: know for me that was a big shift working out 43 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 4: and just going I just don't look any different, and 44 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 4: I'm losing heart in it. But it was like, I know, 45 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 4: how do you feel? I feel so much better. We'll 46 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 4: just keep doing it and that's what I's and see 47 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:43,639 Speaker 4: what happens. She does talk about the idea of with 48 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 4: sex as wanting more sex versus creating a desire to 49 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:52,399 Speaker 4: have sex, which I thought was really really good. 50 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, she's worked with couples, so sometimes she's been a 51 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 3: psychologist and a sexologist. She's got over seventeen years ex 52 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 3: experience in clinical practice and coaching. And she's the director 53 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:09,360 Speaker 3: of Blue Space Psychology where she provides individual psychological and 54 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 3: sexual therapy. 55 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 4: Yeah. She's pretty amazing actually, And this is a really 56 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:17,360 Speaker 4: terrific chat. So if sex is something you think about 57 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 4: a lot or not, you're gonna love this chat with 58 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 4: Laura Lee. Laura Lee, thank you for joining us today. 59 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 4: May I say, what a great name. It's like your 60 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 4: country artist. 61 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 2: I appreciate that very much. It actually wasn't the name 62 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 2: I was born with. 63 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 1: I was briefly married and kept that got married very 64 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: young and kept that surname even though I'm no longer 65 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 1: married because of reactions exactly like that. 66 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 4: It's a great name. 67 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 3: Carry doing, Laura Le, like it's the whole first name, right. 68 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, it does create some first names the name confusion, 69 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 1: but otherwise otherwise it's workable. 70 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 4: Yet, Well, we're really excited to have you with us 71 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:16,600 Speaker 4: today because one, you're a psychologist too. You're a sexologist 72 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 4: with over seventeen years experience in clinical practice and coaching, 73 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 4: and goodness knows a lot of us could use Right now, 74 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 4: our son River is studying to be a psychologist, so 75 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:33,119 Speaker 4: we've we understand a good amount of why someone would 76 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 4: become a psychologist. What about becoming a sexologist is what 77 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:41,919 Speaker 4: is sexology? And why did you choose to become an expert? 78 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 2: Well, expert expert? Can we go with experts? 79 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: Thank you much, thank you? So I thank you for that. 80 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 2: Well, welcome. I really got interested in. 81 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: Sexology because of my wonderful clients in my psychology practice. 82 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: So sexology is the study of all things related to 83 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 1: human sexuality. So sexologists might work in therapy, they might 84 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:13,359 Speaker 1: work in research, education, public health, health policy, health promotion. 85 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 2: So sexologists work in all. 86 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 1: Different kinds of ways. I got really interested in though, 87 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:22,600 Speaker 1: because I started to hear more and more from my clients' 88 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: issues of sex and sex within their relationships, and I 89 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:31,159 Speaker 1: felt really ill equipped to support them because sex was 90 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 1: not really covered at all in my six years of 91 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 1: study and training to become a psychologist. I actually don't 92 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 1: remember the word sex really even being mentioned. And as 93 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: I started to talk to other healthcare providers, even gps, 94 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:46,599 Speaker 1: they all started saying the same thing. I have a 95 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: friend who's a GP who said that sex was covered 96 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:51,839 Speaker 1: in one two hour lecture in her medical degree and 97 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 1: that was about it. 98 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 2: So it is really not. 99 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 1: A huge part of health provider training. And I just 100 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:01,040 Speaker 1: felt very strongly I wanted to do better. I wanted 101 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 1: to give people great sexual health care. So I went 102 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: back into the master's in sexual health and psychosexual therapy. 103 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 4: I find that interesting. 104 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 3: So was that another two years or another. 105 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 2: Year and another two years study? 106 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:13,039 Speaker 1: Yeah? 107 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 4: Wow, I mean I find that really interesting that it's 108 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 4: not covered because a lot of people would argue that 109 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 4: men think about sex all the time. 110 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 2: That's all that quite a lot, I believe. 111 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, so that's a lot of psychology there. 112 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:29,359 Speaker 3: Yes, Yes, it reminds me a lot of like the 113 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 3: fact that doctors aren't trained in women's hormones as well, 114 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 3: which also goes hand in hand with sex too, So 115 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 3: it seems like there's a massive gap in the market there, 116 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 3: specifically for women I think, I mean men too. I'm 117 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:44,839 Speaker 3: not saying the sexology is not. But like, for I'm 118 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 3: just just saying. 119 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 4: I think it's funny because you're thinking about hormones all 120 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 4: the time and I'm probably thinking about sex. Yeah, a 121 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:52,039 Speaker 4: lot of it's exactly it. 122 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 1: But I mean, Ali, your point is, your point is excellent. 123 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,600 Speaker 1: So we know that women's health and women's sexual health 124 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:03,919 Speaker 1: is particularly under funded under research, which unfortunately means women 125 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 1: the will are actually more likely to get really poor 126 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:09,479 Speaker 1: health advice when it comes to sexuality. So I hear 127 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 1: from my clients a lot about going to the doctor 128 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:15,679 Speaker 1: with issues of sexual pain, for example, and being given 129 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: advice like relax, have a glass of wine. This this 130 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: kind of advice, which is which is really unhelpful to 131 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 1: say the very least. 132 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, and if you want to stay together, just put 133 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 3: up and shut up, like just give him what he wants. 134 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 3: Just just like think of Queen of England and just well, 135 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 3: don't think of Queen of England. 136 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 4: Actually I can think of the Queen of England. Maybe 137 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 4: not likely, don't have. 138 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 3: You know the way, and and then you know, then 139 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 3: he's okay for a week, you know. I I lot 140 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 3: of my friends talk like that. It's like, oh boy, okay, 141 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 3: we've just I've got to service him to keep him happy, 142 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 3: but like there's no enjoyment for them. 143 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 1: No, And what you're referencing here is some really ingrained 144 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 1: sexual scripts. So sexual scripts are these ideas, these stories 145 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 1: that we've internalized about sex, and a lot of us 146 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 1: would have similar similar ones growing up. You know, this 147 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 1: idea of yes, sex being for the male partner, or 148 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 1: sex being over when the male is finished, and all 149 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 1: of these kinds of ideas sex meaning penetration. 150 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 2: These are all really. 151 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: Common ingrained scripts around sex culturally for us. 152 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:31,679 Speaker 3: Yeah, we had a I reference her a lot because 153 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:33,959 Speaker 3: she was just so interesting, but we had a sex 154 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 3: historian in her and her mum. And I'm going to 155 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 3: get the date of it wrong, but it wasn't that 156 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 3: long ago in our history that they thought that women 157 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:52,679 Speaker 3: had to have an orgasm to get pregnant. And it 158 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 3: wasn't until they discovered that you didn't, women didn't need 159 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 3: to have the orgasm to get pregnant that it was like, oh, 160 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 3: you don't need sexual pleasure, that's great, you can just 161 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 3: be the carrier of the baby. And that's where women 162 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 3: lost a lot of pleasure in a way. 163 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 1: Is that how you yes, Yes, that's absolutely right. I 164 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: know it wasn't that long ago. There's lots about women's 165 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:17,439 Speaker 1: health and women's anatomy that actually wasn't discovered that long ago, 166 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:20,720 Speaker 1: Like research into the clitorists, for example, is only really 167 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 1: in the last few decades, like certainly in all of 168 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:27,079 Speaker 1: our lifetimes. So this is really this is a really 169 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 1: i'm known under researched area. 170 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 4: Yeah. 171 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, the clitterist is an amazing little creature. 172 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 2: Actually quite a big creature. 173 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:39,200 Speaker 3: Well quite, it's quite. It's bigger than we think it is. 174 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:42,439 Speaker 1: Yes it is, Yeah, yes it is. 175 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 4: I'm saying, we. 176 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:46,200 Speaker 3: Looking at me like what. 177 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 4: Most people struggle to even start a conversation about sex 178 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 4: in relationship. Most I think, what are some simple ways 179 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 4: to break the ice in a real relationship. 180 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a really common concern for people. I 181 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:07,560 Speaker 1: think it is very common for people to be having 182 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 1: sex but not talking about the sex that they were having. 183 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 1: That was certainly true of me for most of my 184 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 1: adult life. That's a very common experience. So if this 185 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 1: is a new topic for someone you know in your relationship, 186 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:22,679 Speaker 1: no matter how long you've been together, I really invite 187 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 1: you to consider that first conversation as simply an opportunity 188 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 1: to explore willingness and openness to even talking about sex 189 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 1: like that first conversation is not We're not trying to 190 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 1: solve problems or raise issues. We're definitely not kind of 191 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 1: giving feedback or raising grievances. Instead, it's more an opportunity 192 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 1: to check for willingness from our partner that this is 193 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: a topic that they even want to discuss. So that 194 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: can look like something like, Hey, I feel a bit 195 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:55,200 Speaker 1: I feel a bit nervous bringing this up with you, 196 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 1: but it occurs to me I'd like us to be, 197 00:10:57,520 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 1: you know, great lovers to each other for a really 198 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:00,839 Speaker 1: long time time to come, and I want us to 199 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 1: have great sexual experiences even though it's super awkward. 200 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 2: Are you are you up for that? 201 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: Are you? Are you up for that kind of conversation? 202 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 3: That's all So, as far as you know couples opening 203 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 3: up about sex and talking about sex, what do you 204 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 3: find is the biggest barrier across the board that people have? 205 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 3: Is it religion? Is it having not had an open 206 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 3: conversation with their parents growing up? So what is it 207 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 3: that stops people having just a regular conversation where they 208 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 3: might feel the shame or the embarrassment. 209 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:38,440 Speaker 2: I think it's I think it's layered. 210 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 1: So I think the first thing I would say is 211 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:44,439 Speaker 1: we still live in a pretty sex negative culture, so 212 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: it would be easy to notice that we've come a 213 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 1: long way, We've made a lot of progress, but actually 214 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 1: there's a lot of there's still a lot of taboo 215 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 1: around talking about sex. I mean, I look at how 216 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: I even have to I have to spell sex in 217 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 1: kind of COVID ways on social media just to even 218 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: talk about my work. So there is still a real 219 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 1: taboo around this topic. The second thing I would say 220 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 1: about communication about sex is that it is a learnt 221 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:14,559 Speaker 1: skill that most of us were not taught. And like 222 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 1: any learned skill, we need, we need to practice it, 223 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: we need to be taught it, and most of. 224 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 2: Us weren't taught how to talk about sex. 225 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 1: In fact, most people I know, myself included, were out 226 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:29,079 Speaker 1: having sex long before I developed the skills to. 227 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 2: Talk about it. 228 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 1: The final thing, though, I would say that's a barrier 229 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 1: to talking about sex, and I think it might be 230 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 1: the biggest one I see in my practice, is all 231 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 1: the emotion that goes with this topic. It is such 232 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:45,559 Speaker 1: a fraud topic for couples. It generates so much anxiety. 233 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: People are so afraid of what they might come up 234 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 1: against in terms of am I going to be judged, rejected, abandoned, hurt, 235 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 1: feel ashamed, laughed at. It's a pretty high risk, high 236 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 1: stakes conversation to have if you aren't that familiar with 237 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: it or you've never had it before. So I really 238 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 1: have a lot of empathy and compassion for people who 239 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 1: are struggling to navigate communication in this space. It is 240 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:18,319 Speaker 1: such a fraud topic for individuals, let alone couples who 241 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 1: are then bringing two sets of stuff to the conversation. 242 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 4: What are some myths about the sexual desires that you 243 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 4: wish more people understood. 244 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:36,840 Speaker 2: One of the. 245 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:40,560 Speaker 1: Myths that I think is out there about sexual desires 246 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 1: is that fantasy and the things that we might enjoy 247 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 1: in our erotic mind are necessarily things that we want 248 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 1: to translate into action. That is not necessarily the case. 249 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 1: So I would want people to understand that fantasy is 250 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:04,679 Speaker 1: a place for exploration and imagination and it doesn't necessarily 251 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:05,840 Speaker 1: mean we actually. 252 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:06,840 Speaker 2: Want to do those things. 253 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 1: So I would really love to encourage people to explore 254 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: fantasy more, share them with a partner if they trust 255 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 1: them be willing to play with them and play with 256 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 1: these ideas of things that we find erotic and arousing. 257 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 2: That would be one myth. 258 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 1: Another myth I would want people to know, I guess, 259 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 1: just more broadly, is that whatever you're into, I promise 260 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 1: you're not the first person that's into it. And if 261 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:32,239 Speaker 1: ever you need any proof of that, you can absolutely 262 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 1: go and look up any fantasy that you've had, any thought, 263 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 1: any any desire that you've come up with. I promise 264 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 1: you'll find like a category for it somewhere on the internet, 265 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: because there are other people that are into it too. 266 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 1: So whatever you're into, A promise, it's not that unique. 267 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, and probably exactly as you were saying, you know, 268 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 3: and across the ages that we've spoken about this before, 269 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 3: that it's the kinks have been happening for many, many men, 270 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 3: any hundreds of years. 271 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:08,239 Speaker 1: Actually, Yes, absolutely, yes, we're not actually as like creative 272 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 1: or imaginative. I think that as we think we are. Yes, 273 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: most of this stuff has been around a long time. 274 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 1: I mean, even ideas that we think are reasonably new 275 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:22,479 Speaker 1: around relationships. If I take for example, non monogamy and polyamory, 276 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 1: it feels like non monogamy is really having a moment. 277 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 1: It's certainly becoming a more a relationshipture, a relationship structure 278 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 1: that I am seeing more and more from my clinics. 279 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 1: But actually, monogamy isn't really that traditional. So the structures 280 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 1: of non monogamy in relationships and having multiple people more 281 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 1: than two people in your relationship structure is actually very, 282 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 1: very old. It's been around a really long time, so 283 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 1: it's a really nice example of what you're talking about. 284 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 3: Unfortunately, many people have had sexual experiences, whether it's been 285 00:15:56,400 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 3: abuse as a child, or it's been a sexual assault, 286 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 3: or however it's played itself out, or they've been shamed 287 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 3: deeply in a place of their sexuality. How do you 288 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 3: work with people when they're adults struggling with that kind 289 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 3: of trauma and it's affecting their relationship in the present moment. 290 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, I think you know where I start with. 291 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 1: I do a lot of trauma work in my practice, 292 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 1: and where it's really important to start with is unpacking 293 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 1: some of that shame and why that's older and why 294 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 1: and how that's been carried into the current relationship and 295 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: helping people really unpack and process things that might have 296 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: happened to them in the past that are showing up 297 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 1: and affecting their current relationships. When I use that word process, 298 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 1: when we use that in a trauma context, what we're 299 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 1: talking about there is helping the memory of a past 300 00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: event get successfully processed in our long term memory. Trauma 301 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 1: memories can get kind of stuck in our body. You've 302 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 1: probably heard that kind of language around trauma getting stored 303 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 1: in the body. 304 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:08,680 Speaker 2: When it gets kind of stuck in. 305 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 1: The body like that, it means it's really susceptible to 306 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 1: being triggered. It's like it's kind of like, you know, 307 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:18,639 Speaker 1: getting an electric shock. Something happens today that reminds my 308 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 1: nervous system of a past trauma. It's really easy to 309 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:24,719 Speaker 1: kind of get that electric shock, that zap of recognition 310 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 1: and reminder that floods my nervous system, and my nervous 311 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 1: system thinks this is just like that other time, and 312 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 1: its senses that we're under threat. 313 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 2: So part of my work when I work with trauma 314 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 2: is to. 315 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 1: Help people successfully process past traumas, get them filed away 316 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:42,160 Speaker 1: where they should be, into long term memory, so people 317 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:44,959 Speaker 1: are more able to stay regulated in the present moment. 318 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 1: But the other thing I would say about that when 319 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:51,160 Speaker 1: it comes to sex, is that it wouldn't be uncommon 320 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:54,919 Speaker 1: for me to suggest people take sex or certain sex 321 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: acts off the table whilst they are doing that work, 322 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 1: because nothing good happens if we are pushing through sexual 323 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:06,679 Speaker 1: experiences that are really distressing or really unwanted. I'm not 324 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:11,880 Speaker 1: talking about nonconsensual experiences obviously, obviously that goes without saying, but. 325 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 2: I'm talking about the sex that is unwanted and. 326 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:17,159 Speaker 1: He's maybe been done from a place of obligation or 327 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:20,119 Speaker 1: thinking I should Pushing through those kinds of experiences can 328 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 1: be really harmful and really re traumatizing. 329 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:31,359 Speaker 4: Interesting. What's a totally normal, but I guess surprisingly controversial 330 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 4: topic in your work. 331 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 1: It's sex education in terms of a fantasy or anything, well. 332 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:42,439 Speaker 4: Kind of anything what comes to mind. You know, you 333 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 4: think it's normal, but it's viewed as controversial. 334 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:50,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. I mentioned non monogamy before. 335 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:56,359 Speaker 1: I would say that that is a relationship structure that 336 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 1: a few years ago I would say I didn't really 337 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 1: know any one that was practicing non monogamy openly in 338 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 1: their relationship, And now now I would say that is 339 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 1: becoming far more mainstream. And in fact, there was a 340 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:13,119 Speaker 1: research study done recently, it was in the US that 341 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:17,959 Speaker 1: indicated one in ten research participants would be interested in 342 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:20,719 Speaker 1: having a relationship that involves some form of non monogamy. 343 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 1: So it's actually quite a popular and relationship structure that 344 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:30,160 Speaker 1: is of interest. It's estimated at the moment in the US, 345 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:34,159 Speaker 1: and also similar numbers in Australia that somewhere in the 346 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 1: vicinity of about four percent of relationships are currently openly 347 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 1: ethically non monogamous. I'm not talking about infidelity, ethically openly 348 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 1: non monogamous, and I myself have lived experience of a 349 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 1: variety of relationship structures, including ethical non monogamy, and so 350 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 1: I feel quite connected to that community, and I would 351 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 1: say that is a topic that I get questions about 352 00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:01,200 Speaker 1: in my practice. Now more and moreeople are very interested 353 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 1: to know what's available to them. And I'm so excited 354 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:06,879 Speaker 1: by this because I love not because I think no 355 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 1: monogamy is for everyone, but because I do think it's 356 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 1: wonderful to consider our relationships with intentionality. If I choose 357 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 1: monogamy or not, making that choice intentionally rather than just 358 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 1: thinking it's something I have to do as a default, 359 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 1: and that spirit of intentionality is beautiful to bring to 360 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 1: our relationships and. 361 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 3: Our sex lives as far as like, you know, we 362 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:33,000 Speaker 3: touched on sort of sex education and earlier. But where 363 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:37,360 Speaker 3: do you think we're at with sex education and our kids. 364 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:43,479 Speaker 3: You know, everyone's talking about this show Adolescence, and you know, 365 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 3: it's very very hot topic right now, and really it's 366 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:50,640 Speaker 3: been alarming to watch that. But I think we've kind 367 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:52,879 Speaker 3: of known a little bit the effect of social media 368 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:57,479 Speaker 3: where our kids are learning about sex, particularly our young boys. 369 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 3: Where is sex education now do you feel in our schools? 370 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:04,200 Speaker 3: And does it need a complete overhaul? 371 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:09,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, such a big question, And yes, I'm actually delighted 372 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 1: that it's that it's a hot topic for all the 373 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:17,439 Speaker 1: reasons you alluded to. Our sex education model at the 374 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 1: moment is unfortunately really risk based. So a lot of 375 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 1: the messaging that young people are getting is that sex 376 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: is a risky activity, right in that you are at 377 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 1: risk of getting pregnant, or getting someone pregnant, contracting an STI, 378 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 1: or at risk of assaulting someone or misreading signs of 379 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 1: consent and nonconsent or being assaulted. So these are some 380 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 1: of the risky messages that young people tell me they. 381 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 2: Are getting about sex. 382 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 1: So they are getting education about minimizing the risks, right, 383 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:56,720 Speaker 1: So they're getting education, in some cases reasonably good education 384 00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:00,919 Speaker 1: about minimizing the risks of sex. The bit that is 385 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 1: missing from our sex education is, of course, the conversation 386 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:11,639 Speaker 1: about respect, fun, pleasure, and communication. These are the things 387 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,880 Speaker 1: that are missing about sex. So I am not surprised 388 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: that young people are going out into the world as 389 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,920 Speaker 1: young adults wondering about how they can make sex as 390 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 1: safe as possible, but not really asking questions about pleasure. 391 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 2: How can I ask for what I want? 392 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 1: How can I have a good time, How can I 393 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,680 Speaker 1: get to move my body? These are the questions that 394 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 1: come up later in life and unfortunately missing from our 395 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:36,680 Speaker 1: current sex education. 396 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:44,879 Speaker 4: Laura, what effect does porn have not only with our kids, 397 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 4: but also in our adult sexual relationships. 398 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, this is a great question, because of course 399 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 1: porn news is prolific and it's everywhere. One of the 400 00:22:55,240 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 1: things to really understand about pornography use is that the 401 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 1: way that it is used in the context of masturbation 402 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:09,119 Speaker 1: to achieve arousal and typically orgasm, that can become a 403 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:11,879 Speaker 1: really habituated relationship. 404 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 2: So what I mean by that is those neural pathways can. 405 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:18,679 Speaker 1: Get really strong around this is what somebody needs to 406 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: achieve a certain level of arousal. 407 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 2: To achieve orgasm. 408 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 1: So that when people ask me about kind of addiction, 409 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 1: I often explain that there's lots of gray before addiction, 410 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,440 Speaker 1: and what that looks like is more that habituation where 411 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: it feels kind of compulsive, like I have to The 412 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,480 Speaker 1: other thing that can happen with pornography use, and I 413 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:41,199 Speaker 1: think this is where it can have really unwanted consequences, 414 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 1: is that we can, through that habituation process, we can 415 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:50,479 Speaker 1: require sometimes more and more of something to achieve that 416 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:54,239 Speaker 1: same level of arousal. And unfortunately, with pornography use, what 417 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 1: that can mean that we're seeing is people might seek 418 00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 1: more and more extreme content in order to achieve that 419 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 1: same level of arousal. So the types of videos they 420 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 1: were maybe consuming initially kind of feel like then they 421 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:10,719 Speaker 1: don't quite do it, and so someone will go seeking 422 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 1: something more extreme. One of the things that happens here 423 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,399 Speaker 1: when we are sexually aroused, so when the arousal response 424 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 1: is happening in our body, happening in our nervous system, 425 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:24,159 Speaker 1: is that it turns off some of the things that 426 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:28,400 Speaker 1: would signal things like discussed, So our disgust response kind 427 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 1: of turns off when we're sexually aroused, and that can 428 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:35,119 Speaker 1: mean sometimes sometimes people will say things or think things 429 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 1: or do things during sex during arousals that afterwards they're like, oh, God, 430 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 1: like was that me? 431 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:43,680 Speaker 2: What was I? Even? What was I saying during that? Right? 432 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:44,879 Speaker 2: Who was that person? 433 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 1: But this can become really problematic for people when it 434 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:52,399 Speaker 1: comes to pornography use, because they might consume pornography, particularly 435 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:57,119 Speaker 1: very extreme types of pornography that afterwards they feel a 436 00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:01,040 Speaker 1: lot of shame and guilt about consuming. So that is 437 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:04,160 Speaker 1: some of the ways in which pornography use can become 438 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:09,440 Speaker 1: really really problematic and really. 439 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:10,639 Speaker 2: Like unpleasant, unwanted. 440 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,120 Speaker 1: I work with a lot of young adults who talk 441 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:17,400 Speaker 1: to me about their pornography use, leaving them feeling some 442 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 1: really yucky feelings after engaging with it, and that's not 443 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 1: how we want people to feel after they've engaged in pleasure, 444 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:23,960 Speaker 1: not at all. 445 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,160 Speaker 3: It's so interesting. I've never heard it explained like that. 446 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 3: That's really fascinating. Can you talk about the difference about 447 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:40,160 Speaker 3: there's a difference between spontaneous and responsive desire and how 448 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,399 Speaker 3: communication plays a role in both of those can you 449 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:47,640 Speaker 3: explain what they are firstly and how it plays out 450 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 3: in a relationship. 451 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 2: Yeah. 452 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:55,680 Speaker 1: Absolutely, desire, which is our wish and our want for sex, 453 00:25:55,760 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 1: our drive for sex, our inclination towards having sex. Issues 454 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,520 Speaker 1: of desire, low desire, mismatched desire are actually the number 455 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 1: one reason people seek sex therapy. So I understand desire 456 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,159 Speaker 1: in a relationship is a huge topic and feels like 457 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:16,159 Speaker 1: a huge problem for people. So I do like to 458 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:20,680 Speaker 1: explain this idea of spontaneous and responsive desire. Spontaneous desire 459 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 1: is what I think people think of when they think 460 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 1: of desire. It's that, you know, I'm just going about 461 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,640 Speaker 1: my day and I have a sexy thought or urge 462 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:30,760 Speaker 1: or feeling, or I think, damn, I wish my partner 463 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 1: was home, or I can't wait till he gets home 464 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:34,119 Speaker 1: and we're going to do this and that tonight. So 465 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 1: that is spontaneous desire. Responsive desire, on the other hand, 466 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 1: is what happens when I hear people say things like 467 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:43,159 Speaker 1: I don't really think about sex during the day. I 468 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:45,400 Speaker 1: feel like I could kind of take it or leave it. 469 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 1: But when I start to engage with sexual stimuli, the 470 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:52,200 Speaker 1: things that kind of get me going, whether that's a 471 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:55,479 Speaker 1: toy or pornography or my partner or whatever it is. 472 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 1: I start to engage with those things, and then the 473 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,959 Speaker 1: wish the desire shows up. Once I'm kind of getting going, 474 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:03,719 Speaker 1: my body is like, oh yeah, I kind of like this. 475 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 1: I kind of feel like this now, I kind of 476 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 1: want this now. What we now know about desire is 477 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 1: that the majority of desire experiences in adults, particularly adults 478 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:19,960 Speaker 1: in long term relationships, is actually experienced responsively. So most 479 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:23,400 Speaker 1: of our desire is responsive, meaning that it'll only show 480 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,119 Speaker 1: up when it's got something to respond to. There's some 481 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 1: studies that have come out recently that estimate that for women, 482 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:33,640 Speaker 1: about seventy five percent of their experiences of desire are responsive, 483 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,680 Speaker 1: and for men the number is still close to fifty percent, 484 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,680 Speaker 1: About forty five to fifty percent of the time desire 485 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 1: is responsive for men. So we know that a huge 486 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,200 Speaker 1: amount of the ways in which we will desire sex 487 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 1: or want sex are really when it's got some pleasure 488 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,880 Speaker 1: to respond to. The desire will show up when it's 489 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 1: got something to show up for. So I really like 490 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:57,919 Speaker 1: to help people who come to me for issues of 491 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,200 Speaker 1: desire to really kind of slip it on its head 492 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:05,399 Speaker 1: rather than working on wanting sex more, Let's give it 493 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:09,119 Speaker 1: something to want, Like, let's give your desire something to 494 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:11,439 Speaker 1: want and something worth showing up for. 495 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 3: Just bringing it back to my age group again, my 496 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,960 Speaker 3: my lovely middle aged women friends who are either pery 497 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 3: or postmenopausal. A lot of them talk about about the 498 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 3: spontaneous has completely gone. And you know what's the key? 499 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 3: What how do I get back into wanting to have 500 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,160 Speaker 3: sex again? You know, and I know that that again 501 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 3: it's as you would know, it's it is multi layered 502 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:53,480 Speaker 3: because you know, menopausal women sometimes things happen with dryness 503 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 3: and it becomes painful. But if you're you know, there's 504 00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 3: women that I know who've got young kids still, they're 505 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 3: very busy, they're working, they've got a juggle and juggle 506 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 3: and juggle of enormous things that they're trying to cope with, 507 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 3: and they often feel like their husband just thinks about sex, 508 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 3: where they're thinking about the kids, they're aging parents, their work, 509 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,600 Speaker 3: what they're having for dinner. Like how does a woman 510 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 3: get to the point where they even feel like having 511 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 3: responsive desire where it's like I don't even know where 512 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 3: to begin to become responsive to my husband. 513 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:35,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, the example that you gave the picture 514 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:37,760 Speaker 1: painted is such a common one. I really resonate with 515 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,840 Speaker 1: what you're describing there that when you describe that to me, 516 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 1: I go, yeah, I don't know that I would feel 517 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 1: like sex much either if I didn't feel like I 518 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:51,080 Speaker 1: could make room for pleasure. But also even just connection 519 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 1: to my body, because that's something I see happening a lot, 520 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:58,960 Speaker 1: particularly for women at this stage of life, which is 521 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:01,280 Speaker 1: me too. I'm in my forty so this is really 522 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 1: speaking to me too, this busyness and this disconnection from 523 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 1: our body and our sensory experience. So something I like 524 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 1: to work with a lot, particularly for women, is this 525 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 1: reconnection to sensation and moving the focus from how does 526 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 1: my body look to how does this sensation make my 527 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: body feel? And I actually get because I really I 528 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:30,800 Speaker 1: don't really understand the busyness of people's lives. 529 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 2: I actually get people to. 530 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 1: Practice this in really small, practical ways outside of the bedroom. First, 531 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:41,080 Speaker 1: this is just about noticing sensation, noticing what is it 532 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 1: like to feel the water on my body in the shower, 533 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 1: or to feel the sun on my skin, or to 534 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 1: smell my morning coffee, or to dance and move my 535 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:57,000 Speaker 1: body to a certain song. Like this reconnection back to 536 00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 1: our senses, because most of us day to day are 537 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,720 Speaker 1: actually moving through the world pretty disconnected from my body. 538 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,239 Speaker 2: And I'm sure you've had this experience. I know I have. 539 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 1: If I take a moment to kind of breathe and 540 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,320 Speaker 1: tune into my body, I often notice sensation I wasn't 541 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:11,760 Speaker 1: aware of. 542 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,760 Speaker 2: It might be neutral or positive or negative. It could be, oh, 543 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,360 Speaker 2: I've actually got a headache, or actually. 544 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:19,840 Speaker 1: You know, my back hurts, or whatever it is. But 545 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,880 Speaker 1: we're soorry disconnected from our body, we're not even noticing 546 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 1: some of the information it's trying to give us. So 547 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 1: this practicing, this habit of reconnecting with our senses but 548 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 1: also reconnecting to just those micro moments of pleasurable sensation, 549 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 1: that is where I would get people to start. 550 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,280 Speaker 4: I love that. It's great action. It's a great action 551 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:47,080 Speaker 4: thing to do. So emotional safety plays a great role 552 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 4: in sexual communication. How how can couples create that space 553 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,320 Speaker 4: or how you know some action items on that to 554 00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,000 Speaker 4: create that emotional safe space for each other. 555 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:00,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. 556 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 1: Absolutely, So there are a couple of really practical things 557 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,160 Speaker 1: I like to give couples particularly if they've gone through 558 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,880 Speaker 1: a period of feeling a bit disconnected or just falling 559 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,800 Speaker 1: into those habits we fall into where communication has maybe 560 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,800 Speaker 1: become a bit transactional and a bit logistic based rather 561 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 1: than really kind of connecting. 562 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 2: A couple of. 563 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 1: Really practical things I like people to try are a 564 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:26,440 Speaker 1: daily appreciation practice. So appreciation for our partner is actually 565 00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:31,440 Speaker 1: a really big predictor of relationship success, but also sexual connection, 566 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 1: like genuinely appreciating things about each other, liking things about 567 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 1: each other, and putting words to that. So this is 568 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:43,800 Speaker 1: a little bit different to gratitude. We're talking about noticing 569 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:49,000 Speaker 1: our partner right, noticing something they do, appreciating something that 570 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:52,520 Speaker 1: we've seen them do that day, like admiration. 571 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:54,080 Speaker 2: Admiration is a really nice word. 572 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:59,360 Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, this idea of something I've noticed that I've liked, appreciated, admired. 573 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:02,160 Speaker 1: Get people to share that with each other on a 574 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:06,240 Speaker 1: daily basis in the evening. Another really practical thing I 575 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 1: would like people to bring into their partnered communication is curiosity. 576 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 1: It's such a it's really like a lost in long 577 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:16,800 Speaker 1: term relationships, Like at the start of a relationship, we're 578 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:20,920 Speaker 1: so curious about our partner everything they say is so fascinating, 579 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 1: and we turn over every you know, every little every 580 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:25,720 Speaker 1: little thing they share. We like hold it like a 581 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:28,600 Speaker 1: little precious jewel. But it doesn't take long before we're 582 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 1: in that space where we are not really asking that 583 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,600 Speaker 1: many questions. Maybe we're making assumptions. Maybe they go to 584 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:36,360 Speaker 1: tell us something and we're like, yeah, yeah, you've told 585 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:36,800 Speaker 1: me already. 586 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:37,600 Speaker 2: I know that story. 587 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:44,080 Speaker 1: So I really understand falling falling into these habits. 588 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:48,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, I know. Yeah, but oh my god, time you 589 00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:52,120 Speaker 3: told me that in a day, Laura, in a day, 590 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,920 Speaker 3: I have to stop him. 591 00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 4: But it's so important to me. I do it ten 592 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 4: times because she hasn't heard me the first second or 593 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 4: seventh age. Yeah, give it another crack. 594 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:08,719 Speaker 3: Trust me, I've heard you, and we've had a conversation. 595 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,080 Speaker 3: And then I have to remind you, Honey, we had 596 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 3: this conversation. 597 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:15,840 Speaker 4: You need some patience. You need to have some patience 598 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:16,400 Speaker 4: with your. 599 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:18,560 Speaker 2: Fellow I have. 600 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:21,719 Speaker 1: I have maybe something, a little, a little thing to 601 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,000 Speaker 1: kind of tuck into your mind to help you foster more. 602 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:26,840 Speaker 2: Curiosity is a term that I'm going to scratch. 603 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,879 Speaker 1: You're most welcome is a term I'm going to borrow 604 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:32,400 Speaker 1: from John and Julie Gotman, who if you're not familiar 605 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 1: with them, yes we love them godmother and godfather of 606 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 1: everything relationships and love. They talk about this concept of 607 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:44,600 Speaker 1: bids for connection. Bids for connection are those little things 608 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,720 Speaker 1: we do to connect, to reach out with our partner. 609 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,920 Speaker 1: And they give the example of like, imagine where you're 610 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:53,279 Speaker 1: sitting with your partner and you look out the wado 611 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 1: and you see a boat right, and your partner's like, oh, 612 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:56,799 Speaker 1: look at that boat, and you go, oh yeah, you 613 00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:58,560 Speaker 1: just go back to looking on your phone or reading 614 00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 1: or whatever you're doing yet to or you respond by going, 615 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:04,360 Speaker 1: look at that. Have you ever been on a sailboat? 616 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,400 Speaker 1: And maybe we could get a boat when we retire, 617 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 1: and maybe we should sail And if you could sail anywhere, 618 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:10,920 Speaker 1: where would you go? And you connect and you respond 619 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:15,040 Speaker 1: to that bid. Now we each make bids for connection 620 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:19,120 Speaker 1: in really different ways. My partner makes bids for connection 621 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,560 Speaker 1: by sending me like videos, reels, meme stuff like that 622 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:26,000 Speaker 1: during the day, right, And often they're really unfunny. They're 623 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:29,440 Speaker 1: not funny, and I'm busy and I'm like not that interested. 624 00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:33,640 Speaker 1: But I learnt the hard way when I responded poorly 625 00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:34,640 Speaker 1: ones to these videos. 626 00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:35,160 Speaker 2: I can't remember. 627 00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:37,919 Speaker 1: It was along the lines of like whatever, or that's 628 00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:40,440 Speaker 1: not funny or I'm not interested. And I was with 629 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:43,160 Speaker 1: him in the room and he looked really hurt. And 630 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:45,279 Speaker 1: it was then that I was like, this is not 631 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:47,440 Speaker 1: about the video. It doesn't really matter what's in the video. 632 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,200 Speaker 1: This is a bid for connection. When someone shares a video, 633 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:52,239 Speaker 1: they're like, look at this. I saw this, or it 634 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:54,799 Speaker 1: was funny or it was interesting, and I thought of you, 635 00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:58,319 Speaker 1: and I want us to experience together this video. And 636 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,400 Speaker 1: that's what matters. How I respond is not about the video. 637 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,799 Speaker 1: It's about responding to him and his bid. And that's 638 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:08,800 Speaker 1: how we can foster more curiosity and connection with our partner. 639 00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:11,839 Speaker 1: Really start to notice when they're making a bid, and 640 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:15,279 Speaker 1: be willing to respond to those bids really well. Most 641 00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:17,000 Speaker 1: of the time we don't get it right all of 642 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:18,920 Speaker 1: the time, but most of the time. 643 00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:24,320 Speaker 3: And those bids and those acknowledging the admiration, and you know, verbally, 644 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,239 Speaker 3: you know, saying those sorts of things, is that what 645 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:31,080 Speaker 3: you would call well, I was going to say the 646 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:34,520 Speaker 3: non verbal forms of sexual communication. I guess it's you 647 00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,759 Speaker 3: are actually speaking, but it's I guess it's the non 648 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:42,920 Speaker 3: sexual bids for communication, isn't It's not necessarily you're not 649 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:47,160 Speaker 3: talking about sex, you're not flirting. It's just those bids 650 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:52,360 Speaker 3: for attachment and acknowledging what they are. And yeah, I 651 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:52,719 Speaker 3: love that. 652 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:53,680 Speaker 2: I think that's yeah. 653 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:57,400 Speaker 1: Well, and getting to your partner, like your experience matters 654 00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:59,480 Speaker 1: to me, like what you think, right and what you 655 00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:02,560 Speaker 1: feel and what you experience matters to me. And you 656 00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 1: can see how that could translate sexually. Pretty pretty obvious 657 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:06,880 Speaker 1: that that would translate sexually. 658 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:11,759 Speaker 3: So the non verbal forms of sexual communication, what is that? 659 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:18,320 Speaker 1: So nonverbal forms of sexual communication occur both in sex 660 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:21,920 Speaker 1: but also outside of the bedroom. So I'll start outside 661 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:24,399 Speaker 1: of the bedroom. That is pretty simple. That is, of course, 662 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,680 Speaker 1: different ways in which we touch and engage with our 663 00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:34,120 Speaker 1: partner's bodies with intention, you know, intentional caressing, touching, whatever 664 00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:36,680 Speaker 1: you've got consent for, you know, that kind of touch 665 00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,839 Speaker 1: in sex though, and this is really what we're talking 666 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:44,680 Speaker 1: about here. We're really looking for those cues of is 667 00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:47,600 Speaker 1: there that reciprocity? So what I mean by this is 668 00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:51,480 Speaker 1: my partner turned towards me. Are we both reaching for 669 00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:55,320 Speaker 1: each other? Are we making eye contact? Is their mutual 670 00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:59,480 Speaker 1: energy exchange touch all of these kind of cues that 671 00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:02,239 Speaker 1: we send to each other of like I'm in this, 672 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:05,920 Speaker 1: I'm engaged, I'm present, or I'm not. And I do 673 00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,480 Speaker 1: this exercise sometimes with my young adult clients where I 674 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:10,799 Speaker 1: talk to them about when I'm talking about consent. I 675 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,000 Speaker 1: say to them, can you imagine a time that you 676 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:16,680 Speaker 1: might engage with someone sexually? And they're saying verbally that 677 00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:18,759 Speaker 1: say yes, but you have a sense that it's a no, 678 00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,200 Speaker 1: And they go, yeah, I can imagine that, and I go, okay, 679 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 1: tell me how, Like what could you imagine would be 680 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:26,600 Speaker 1: happening that would give you that niggerly feeling in your body? 681 00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:28,520 Speaker 1: This person doesn't really want this, and that's what they 682 00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:31,000 Speaker 1: start to think about. They talk about, you know, body 683 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:33,760 Speaker 1: language and eye contact and are they. 684 00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:34,560 Speaker 2: Touching me back? 685 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:37,240 Speaker 1: And if I pull away from kissing for a moment, 686 00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:39,759 Speaker 1: do they lean in and keep it going or do 687 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,160 Speaker 1: they look relieved and take a break. You know, all 688 00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:44,640 Speaker 1: of these little cues that we send each other of 689 00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:48,680 Speaker 1: like I'm really enthusiastic and I want this, or actually 690 00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:49,720 Speaker 1: I could. 691 00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:50,359 Speaker 2: Leave this for now. 692 00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:54,880 Speaker 1: These are really important too. We're talking about achievement really 693 00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:58,040 Speaker 1: and These are really important skills to develop as part 694 00:38:58,040 --> 00:38:59,319 Speaker 1: of your sexual communication. 695 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:04,200 Speaker 4: So how do you how do you counsel you know, 696 00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:10,960 Speaker 4: couples that are the cues are being or maybe it's 697 00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,560 Speaker 4: too sensitive, that one of them's being more sensitive than 698 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:16,040 Speaker 4: the other one to those cues. 699 00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:17,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I get. 700 00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:21,160 Speaker 1: Them to reflect on real life experiences that they've had together. 701 00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,799 Speaker 1: So tell me about times where you felt really connected 702 00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:28,880 Speaker 1: or really present, or it felt really spicy, or like, 703 00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:31,120 Speaker 1: what's the memory that sits there you lack, or that 704 00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:33,640 Speaker 1: one time was really good And I get them to 705 00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:36,360 Speaker 1: kind of unpack it or we get really kind of 706 00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:38,680 Speaker 1: down into the nitty gritty of what was it that 707 00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:43,000 Speaker 1: made that, you know, such a wonderful connective experience. Because 708 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:46,920 Speaker 1: partner sex is very rarely for people about the orgasm. Right, 709 00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:48,880 Speaker 1: when I ask people why they have sex with their partner, 710 00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,080 Speaker 1: it's not really about the orgasm because frankly, most people 711 00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:53,120 Speaker 1: can get to orgasm quicker on their own. So if 712 00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:54,720 Speaker 1: we were just trying to get to orgasm, we probably 713 00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:57,560 Speaker 1: wouldn't bother involving a partner. So people are involving a 714 00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:00,239 Speaker 1: partner because they want other emotional needs met, you know, 715 00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:02,480 Speaker 1: they want the shared pleasure or the connection or the 716 00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:06,200 Speaker 1: intimacy or the validation or the reassuredness or whatever it is. 717 00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:08,879 Speaker 1: So when I get people to really unpack the experiences 718 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,600 Speaker 1: with their partner that felt really connective, that's usually when 719 00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:16,759 Speaker 1: they'll start to offer some clues about nonverbally, what was 720 00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:18,880 Speaker 1: happening that was really giving them that sense that this 721 00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:21,640 Speaker 1: was a really engaged, connective experience, and we use that 722 00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:22,480 Speaker 1: we build on that. 723 00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:27,480 Speaker 3: Are they common like red flags in a couple's sexual 724 00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:31,600 Speaker 3: communication that might indicate, oh, there's a lot more deeper 725 00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:32,960 Speaker 3: issues at hand here. 726 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:38,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, certainly if one or both partners are finding 727 00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:41,640 Speaker 1: the topic, you know, distressing, too distressing, So that's when 728 00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,600 Speaker 1: someone might become what we call flooded. Really flooded is 729 00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:47,920 Speaker 1: essentially a term to capture like an overwhelm of the 730 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:51,600 Speaker 1: nervous system, where once we're in that state, we kind 731 00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:54,960 Speaker 1: of can't really do that well cognitively, we're too overwhelmed 732 00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:58,160 Speaker 1: by our emotion once that is present. I mean, I 733 00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:00,960 Speaker 1: encourage people anyway that if that happened in any conversation, 734 00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:03,480 Speaker 1: you need to take a break, because nothing good happens 735 00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:05,480 Speaker 1: when we are in that flooded state. 736 00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:08,560 Speaker 2: But I would say. The other thing that is kind of. 737 00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:13,200 Speaker 1: Something that we need to be addressed in communication is 738 00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:16,879 Speaker 1: if people are reverting to what we call safety seeking behaviors. 739 00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,600 Speaker 1: Safety seeking behaviors are the things that we do when 740 00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:22,680 Speaker 1: we feel like we need to protect ourselves. So we 741 00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:24,719 Speaker 1: do that when the topic is sensitive or we feel 742 00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:27,480 Speaker 1: like we're being criticized or something like that, and we'll 743 00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:30,000 Speaker 1: go to these safety seeking behaviors if we're not aware 744 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:34,080 Speaker 1: of them. Some examples of safety seeking include shutting down, 745 00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:39,680 Speaker 1: stone walling, defensiveness, yelling, blaming, criticizing, all of these things 746 00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:43,480 Speaker 1: that we do that are designed to just protect ourselves. 747 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:45,839 Speaker 1: They are the opposite of some of the things we 748 00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:51,000 Speaker 1: were talking about before, like curiosity or appreciation or admiration 749 00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:56,560 Speaker 1: or positive touch validation. They are the polar opposites. 750 00:41:56,120 --> 00:42:04,120 Speaker 4: There, Laura, how can individuals who feel shame and or 751 00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:10,200 Speaker 4: embarrassment around sex begin to shift from that? 752 00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:13,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think this is a great question, because, of course, 753 00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:16,239 Speaker 1: shame is a challenge for so many people, and a 754 00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:20,160 Speaker 1: lot of people have stuff, shame stuff attached to sex. 755 00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:21,600 Speaker 2: I do think it can be. 756 00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:26,360 Speaker 1: Really helpful to cultivate a very sex positive culture for yourself, 757 00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:29,759 Speaker 1: a sex positive environment. So that can be things like 758 00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:36,800 Speaker 1: following certain people on social media, listening to podcasts, attending workshops, 759 00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:40,640 Speaker 1: having more open conversations with people you trust, just cultivating 760 00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:46,680 Speaker 1: environment where you are gently but more exposed to sex positivity, 761 00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:49,400 Speaker 1: and that can help you start to unlearn maybe some 762 00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:52,360 Speaker 1: of the sex negative ideas or scripts, the things that 763 00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:54,640 Speaker 1: have triggered that shame. It can help you start to 764 00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:58,919 Speaker 1: unlearn them, but in a really safe, contained kind of way. 765 00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:01,239 Speaker 1: So that would be one of the first steps that 766 00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:05,480 Speaker 1: I would want for people. The second step is going 767 00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:08,080 Speaker 1: to be though, that if you're in a relationship that 768 00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:11,080 Speaker 1: open communication with a partner, and if you need skills 769 00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:14,439 Speaker 1: to build sexual communication, there's loads of resources, of course 770 00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:15,240 Speaker 1: out there. 771 00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:18,040 Speaker 2: And professionals you can see. But being able to cultivate 772 00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:18,680 Speaker 2: a spirit of. 773 00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:25,160 Speaker 1: Openness, of curiosity, of growth, and of play in your 774 00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:29,480 Speaker 1: relationship is going to be so rewarding and healing. You know, 775 00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:34,840 Speaker 1: that's where we heal. Like humans are connective social creatures. 776 00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:38,040 Speaker 1: We can't heal on our own, and we don't thrive 777 00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:39,000 Speaker 1: and grow on our own. 778 00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:41,000 Speaker 2: We thrive in our relationships. 779 00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:46,600 Speaker 3: Laura, thank you so much. Can people can reach you 780 00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:49,640 Speaker 3: on your website? They can book in with you to 781 00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:52,279 Speaker 3: see you, and obviously I don't know if you're busy, 782 00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:55,600 Speaker 3: busy busy. I know you've got clients lined up after us, 783 00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:58,719 Speaker 3: but we can reach you on your website. Do you 784 00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:01,520 Speaker 3: do retreat or anything like that as well. 785 00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:04,680 Speaker 2: I do a range of things. I do therapy and 786 00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:05,759 Speaker 2: coaching packages. 787 00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:09,040 Speaker 1: But I also I really understand that therapy isn't kind 788 00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:11,200 Speaker 1: of suitable or accessible for everyone. 789 00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:12,600 Speaker 2: So I actually also. 790 00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:16,400 Speaker 1: Have created a online membership program where people can access 791 00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:20,759 Speaker 1: me and my content, videos, blogs, webinars, other ways of 792 00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:22,879 Speaker 1: working with me for. 793 00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:24,200 Speaker 2: A couple of dollars a month. 794 00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:26,680 Speaker 1: So I felt like this was something this was really 795 00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:29,760 Speaker 1: close to my heart because I knew therapy wasn't suitable 796 00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,080 Speaker 1: or accessible for everyone, and I wanted people to still 797 00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:35,839 Speaker 1: have access to really high quality education and resources. So 798 00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:38,480 Speaker 1: that's another way people can work with me, and they 799 00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:40,840 Speaker 1: can check that out if anything from today has resonated 800 00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:41,200 Speaker 1: for them. 801 00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:46,160 Speaker 4: Fantastic, and we do that where at Laura Lee dot com. 802 00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:49,479 Speaker 1: Absolutely, I have a website which is Laura Lee dot 803 00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:52,560 Speaker 1: com dot au and on Instagram you can find me 804 00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:54,680 Speaker 1: at Laura Lee Sexology. 805 00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:55,239 Speaker 3: Fantastic. 806 00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:57,920 Speaker 4: We'll put all that info as well. In our show notes, 807 00:44:58,640 --> 00:44:59,200 Speaker 4: thank you. 808 00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:01,120 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for this. This was so fun. 809 00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:03,839 Speaker 3: And thank you yeah, thanks for all your wisdom. You've 810 00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:07,719 Speaker 3: really explained things in a very easy going, simple way. 811 00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:10,279 Speaker 3: That's been really fascinating. Thanks so much for your time. 812 00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:11,680 Speaker 2: Oh I'm so pleased. 813 00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:12,320 Speaker 3: Thank you again.