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Speaker 1: I'll get a team. It's Craig Anthony Harp. It's you project,

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Speaker 1: It's doctor Sam Casey. What's your middle name? Sam? I

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Speaker 1: have this bad habit. What is it? Sherry Sherry, Doctor

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Speaker 1: Sam Sherry Casey, Craig Anthony Harper, Sam Sherry Casey. Hi, Doc,

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Speaker 1: How it's Thursday afternoon? Well, it's Thursday evening here in

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Speaker 1: the Eastern States. It's afternoon where you are? How you?

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Speaker 1: How's your week been so far? We're sliding towards the

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Speaker 1: big fat red feller in the suit and the reindeer.

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Speaker 1: It's only six days away.

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Speaker 2: Six days away, and I have like a box of

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Speaker 2: presents that have arrived from my kids and I haven't

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Speaker 2: wrapped yet. So that's this weekend's plan is to wrap

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Speaker 2: all the present. So yeah, just.

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Speaker 1: For my audience who has not met you yet, because

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Speaker 1: you've only been here once. So this is your this

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Speaker 1: is your follow up appearance. Just tell my listeners just

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Speaker 1: a quick revisit of who you are, what you do,

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Speaker 1: your job, your PhD, and just a quick snapshot of

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Speaker 1: you so they understand who they're listening to.

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Speaker 2: Yep. Great, Super hard to put into a sentence, right

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Speaker 2: because it's much faceted, but.

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Speaker 1: I'm make stuff.

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Speaker 2: I'm a therapist wait as children families. For over nineteen years,

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Speaker 2: I've created the play Prescription Methods, so wanting to teach

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Speaker 2: parents and professionals how to use therapeutic play to solve

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Speaker 2: common childhood issues and parenting stuff. And my PhD was

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Speaker 2: in play therapy and psychology, so I'm really passionate about

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Speaker 2: all things like therapy and psychology. And yeah, that's me

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Speaker 2: in a nutshell.

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Speaker 1: Has it been Has it been really well received by

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Speaker 1: people who are in the field who are kind of

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Speaker 1: not exactly do what you do but kind of adjacent,

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Speaker 1: you know, working with kids therapy, like helping kids with

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Speaker 1: mental health issues and socially shoes, And how is it

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Speaker 1: received by other people who don't do what you do

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Speaker 1: but are in the space.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, good question. I feel like, you know, when I

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Speaker 2: was doing my PhD, right, I was calling out a

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Speaker 2: lot of like therapists fives and their own I guess

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Speaker 2: stuff and how that comes into therapy. And it was

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Speaker 2: obviously really controversial thing. And you know, one of my examiners,

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Speaker 2: I think I mentioned this on my previous episode, but

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Speaker 2: it was much of the top five percent, and she

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Speaker 2: said you call out like the elephant in the room,

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Speaker 2: the stuff that no one wants to talk about. And

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Speaker 2: I feel like that's kind of been my experience since

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Speaker 2: doing my PhD in the industry, where a lot of

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Speaker 2: the therapists, you know, do say that to me, I'm

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Speaker 2: not kind of talking about generic stuff, and I don't

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Speaker 2: sound like other therapists. I'm talking about things that people

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Speaker 2: feel really uncomfortable to talk about. But it's important stuff.

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Speaker 2: So I definitely feel like there is good, good stuff,

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Speaker 2: and I also think it probably really does trigger people too,

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Speaker 2: So yeah, it's either gonna love it.

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Speaker 1: Or hate It's the age change generally of the kids

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Speaker 1: that you work.

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Speaker 2: With, so play therapy is really from three to twelve.

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Speaker 2: But you know, my shift has really been on the

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Speaker 2: parents with these age kids, because ultimately that's what's going

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Speaker 2: to make the most sustainable changes is when you give

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Speaker 2: parents the insight into understanding their child more and being

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Speaker 2: able to use all these strategies that I would use

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Speaker 2: in the playroom in the therapy room at home.

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Speaker 1: H What's interesting about when you think about helping kid

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Speaker 1: like therapy, right, So there's there's a therapeutic intent that

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Speaker 1: is to help the kid in some way. What are

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Speaker 1: I've got another point I want to make, but before

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Speaker 1: I get to that, what are some of the mental

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Speaker 1: health or behavioral or sociological issues that you deal with? Like,

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Speaker 1: what are some of the typical problems. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if that's the right word, but let's just go with that.

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Speaker 1: Some issues that you deal with.

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Speaker 2: I think the main ones really are anxiety, so whether

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Speaker 2: it's separation anxiety, or anxiety at school, which can come

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Speaker 2: off as like perfectionism, or even kids not even wanting

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Speaker 2: to try because they're so worried about getting it wrong,

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Speaker 2: you know, school refusal, anger, which is a big one,

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Speaker 2: especially for young boys. Self esteem issues. So really I

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Speaker 2: feel like I categorize them in the internalizing presentations and

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Speaker 2: the externalizing. So externalizing is the stuff that we see

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Speaker 2: that it's coming out to, the aggression, the anger, you know,

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Speaker 2: behavioral stuff. DeFi it all of that outwardly, you know,

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Speaker 2: what parents would see as disruptive behaviors. But then the

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Speaker 2: internalizing stuff is the anxiety. It's the stuff that's really

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Speaker 2: happening on the inside that really feels like it's shoved down.

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Speaker 2: And then you know, children will have an outbased and

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Speaker 2: parents like where did that come from? Like, they're not

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Speaker 2: normally like this, but it's obviously been bubbling away. So

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Speaker 2: that's the anxiety stuff. Yeah, So I would say that

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Speaker 2: that's the most common presentations.

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Speaker 1: And so I guess some of that outward stuff that

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Speaker 1: you see is almost the byproduct of the problem, not

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Speaker 1: really the problem itself.

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Speaker 2: It's like definitely the underlying.

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Speaker 1: Stuff, which is the cattle like, this is the issue.

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Speaker 1: It's like, but now what you're seeing is little Johnny

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Speaker 1: acting out, But you need to figure out what's underneath

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Speaker 1: that to stop the acting out or to address that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I try and explain that to parents when

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Speaker 2: they're talking about say little Johnny, and they're like, all

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Speaker 2: he does is head other people and he's you know,

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Speaker 2: really like mean to everyone. And I'm like, so where

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Speaker 2: that starts is Johnny being mean to himself, Like he's

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Speaker 2: heading on the inside. And often there's that kind of

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Speaker 2: critical self talk that's actually going in first. You know

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Speaker 2: that saying hurt people hurt people. So we really want

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Speaker 2: to get to the underlying pain and to be able

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Speaker 2: to empathize with that and to connect children with that.

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Speaker 2: And a lot of the time, especially boys, they have

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Speaker 2: some really critical self talk, like no one wants me around,

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Speaker 2: I'm always doing bad things, no one likes me, you know,

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Speaker 2: just really like really really struggling with that shame and

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Speaker 2: being able to come back from you know, when they

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Speaker 2: do that doesn't feel good.

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Speaker 1: Why do you think that's more boys? You say a

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Speaker 1: lot of boys. What is that about?

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Speaker 2: I think? And this definitely, you know, is obviously prevalent

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Speaker 2: in our society for men. But you know, parents, you know,

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Speaker 2: there's obviously there's probably like biological reasons here too, but

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Speaker 2: I think if we just talk about the sociological reasons,

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Speaker 2: the expectations for boys and girls are very different. So

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Speaker 2: parents parents their children differently. So when there's girls, there

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Speaker 2: is a lot more talk around feelings and you know, understanding,

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Speaker 2: you know, when girls are struggling or they're upset. But

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Speaker 2: for boys, it's like you'll be right, You're okay, like

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Speaker 2: tough en up. So there is definitely those differences in parenting,

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Speaker 2: and I think this is why boys really struggle with

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Speaker 2: being able to talk about their feelings. And I counsel

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Speaker 2: a lot of men too, and yeah, that's something that

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Speaker 2: they also talk a lot about. You know, girls often

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Speaker 2: have friends where they can cry to and you know,

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Speaker 2: and have their feelings validated, and men don't have anyone

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Speaker 2: that they can do that too, and when they do

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Speaker 2: try and reach out, they kind of shut down, like

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Speaker 2: you'll be.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I think it's I mean, I hope it's

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Speaker 1: getting better. We're definitely talking about that more. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: And it's interesting because I don't think anybody's setting out

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Speaker 1: to fuck up their kids, right, but the reality is that,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I've written this post on my Instagram,

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Speaker 1: my current but it's something like, when I was young,

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Speaker 1: I thought that grown ups had their shit together, they

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Speaker 1: understood everything, they knew everything, Da da da dada. They

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Speaker 1: basically had it all together. And then the second part

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Speaker 1: is my hypothesis has since been amended, right. And it's

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Speaker 1: funny because when you're little, well, when I was little,

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Speaker 1: I'd look up to my mum and dad like they

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Speaker 1: were perfect. They had all their shit together, they knew everything.

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Speaker 1: Dad was the smartest guy, Mum was the best mum,

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Speaker 1: every you know, whatever. And then you grow up and

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Speaker 1: you see, you know, the curtain gets pulled back a

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Speaker 1: little bit and you go, oh, no, they're just they're

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Speaker 1: fucked up as well, Like it's not like everyone's got

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Speaker 1: fucking issues. Mum and dad are just as fucked up

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Speaker 1: as their kids, if not more fucked up. So you've

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Speaker 1: kind of got you know, sometimes not all parents, of course,

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Speaker 1: but you've got this person who's perhaps themselves, you know,

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Speaker 1: mentally and or emotionally struggling, which is part of the

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Speaker 1: human experience, and they can't even really help themselves sometimes

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Speaker 1: because understandably there's stuff going on. And then so it's

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Speaker 1: very hard to be you know, Superman or super Dad

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Speaker 1: when you're trying to fix yourself in inverted commas.

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Speaker 2: Definitely, And I think this is actually a good thing

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Speaker 2: because you know, so I've got a post on my

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Speaker 2: Instagram and it's like the Candy Hearts, and if you've

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Speaker 2: seen that by Tommy Siegel, I think it is. And

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Speaker 2: it's like one like the mom candy Heart's like I

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Speaker 2: will not mess up my child, and the other one

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Speaker 2: that other parents like in the same way my parents

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Speaker 2: mess me up, and then the little child one. It's

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Speaker 2: like a whole new kind of fucked up. And I

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Speaker 2: think that that really relates to the reality, which is

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Speaker 2: all children have childhood conditioning. Like like you said, we're

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Speaker 2: all fucked up. You know, this is what's going to happen, like,

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Speaker 2: this is the human conditioning. But what's I think what's

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Speaker 2: really good to know is that it's actually good that

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Speaker 2: children see us as human because what it does, So

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Speaker 2: what happens in the previous generation, what's happened is that

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Speaker 2: children have grown up with parents who try and be

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Speaker 2: robotic and pretend to be perfect, right because they think

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Speaker 2: that they're actually protecting their kids. So children grow up

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Speaker 2: and now they're adults and they're like, no, Mum was perfect.

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Speaker 2: Dad was okay, it must have been me. It's because

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Speaker 2: I was too much. It was because I was too sensitive,

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Speaker 2: it was because I was too annoying, versus a child

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Speaker 2: that grows up where they're like, no, Dad really struggled

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Speaker 2: with anger, and Mum, you know, was stressed. And when

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Speaker 2: they actually have parents who admit to their own humanness,

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Speaker 2: I guess in their own limitations, they're able to separate

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Speaker 2: that and so then they realize, Okay, that's their stuff,

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Speaker 2: what's mine?

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Speaker 1: Yep?

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Speaker 2: And I think that's what we really need to understand

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Speaker 2: more of, and in fact, we need to stop trying

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Speaker 2: to be perfect in front of children, because they grow

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Speaker 2: up thinking it's them problem. They're not just having feelings

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Speaker 2: because they saw their parents manage all the things with

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Speaker 2: zero reaction.

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Speaker 1: What about the idea dr Sam of you know, let's

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Speaker 1: say I'm a dad and I fuck up. You know,

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Speaker 1: nothing horrendous, but I do you know, it's not my

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Speaker 1: finest hour as a parent, and I apologize to my children.

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Speaker 1: Is that a good idea? Parents apologizing to their children.

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Speaker 2: Oh, it's so good. That's a rupture and repair. So

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Speaker 2: every relationship has ruptures, and like I said, the previous

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Speaker 2: generation ignored that and denied that, like they just didn't

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Speaker 2: talk about it right or they were like no, I'm fine,

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Speaker 2: and they're like body languages saying that they're not. And

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Speaker 2: so when we when we repair a rupture, we're first

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Speaker 2: acknowledging that there is a rupture. So children actually go,

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Speaker 2: I'm sensing this right, you know, like there was something

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Speaker 2: here that's disconnected us. And then a parent's owning their stuff.

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Speaker 2: They're like it wasn't you know you like this is

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Speaker 2: my stuff. I was stressed or I was this and

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Speaker 2: then it's like, well, what do we need to do

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Speaker 2: to reconnect? And that's amazing. It's actually showing children that

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Speaker 2: there is a way to come back from when we,

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Speaker 2: you know, have moments like that where we regret what

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Speaker 2: we've done, we've said things we don't mean, and it

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Speaker 2: gives them a bit of a blueprint, you know, that

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Speaker 2: they can do that too, and then they won't going

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Speaker 2: to the spiral of shame.

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Speaker 1: That's so good, so smart. I mean, it's kind of obvious,

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Speaker 1: but we don't talk about it that much, like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, I'm not hanging around observing

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Speaker 1: parents doing a whole lot of parenting too much. But

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Speaker 1: you see a lot of it anecdotally. I mean every

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Speaker 1: morning I'm in the cafe doing work and drinking coffee,

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Speaker 1: and I get to the cafe early, and I see

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Speaker 1: just lots of mums and dads and kids. And I'm

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Speaker 1: not judging, but you just it's like, oh, you know,

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Speaker 1: I live on a main street as well, and I

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Speaker 1: just got back from a walk now just a little.

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Speaker 1: I just walked to one end and the other because

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Speaker 1: it's undercover and it's super hot here. But yeah, I'm

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Speaker 1: constantly seeing parents doing parenting and you know, some of

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Speaker 1: it's brilliant, some of it's, you know, maybe not so brilliant.

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Speaker 1: But I think and I'm not an expert at anything,

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Speaker 1: but I'm definitely not at parenting. But I wonder if

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Speaker 1: I was a parent, if I would have the self

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Speaker 1: awareness and courage and humility to go, hey, this just happened.

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Speaker 1: That was all me. That's my fault, and you didn't

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Speaker 1: do anything that was one hundred percent of me. So

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry and moving forward, I'm going to do my

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Speaker 1: very best not to do that again. Are you okay?

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Speaker 1: Like that seems to me like a good idea.

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Speaker 2: Definitely because they feel like it. Like I said, it

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Speaker 2: really models to them that you're taking own a ship firstly,

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Speaker 2: but also that you've noticed that there is a disconnect

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Speaker 2: and you're kind of making amends. But then I think

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Speaker 2: it's that's the immediate thing right where we're repairing. But

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Speaker 2: I think also taking responsibility. It looks like this is

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Speaker 2: a recurring thing for me, I'm stressed. What do I

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Speaker 2: need to do to take that stress off in my

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Speaker 2: life as a parent? Right So, being able to look

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Speaker 2: at the patterns of going this is like what do

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Speaker 2: I need? And I think a lot of parents don't

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Speaker 2: do that. They just feel like they need to keep

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Speaker 2: sacrificing their needs and go, go, go, And that's where

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Speaker 2: that shame comes. And so when they have those moments,

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Speaker 2: they're just like, I should know better. I need to

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Speaker 2: go to a parenting class. No, you don't. You actually

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Speaker 2: need to have space to get your needs met, because

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Speaker 2: really take off the loan. A lot of the time

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Speaker 2: parents know what they need to do. It's just they're overloaded,

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Speaker 2: they're overwhelmed, they're tired, they're hungry.

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Speaker 1: Did you see that that research that came out of

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Speaker 1: unis A last year? It was about this time. I've

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Speaker 1: spoken about this a few times. I apologize, but it's

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Speaker 1: relevant to this conversation where they compared exercise as a

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Speaker 1: treatment for anxiety with it was either anxiety or depressional.

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Speaker 1: Both might have been both, but they used exercise as

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Speaker 1: a treatment protocol compared with medication. And of course, you

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Speaker 1: know what I'm going to say, So the exercise, the

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Speaker 1: exercise outperformed, you know, the medication. And I'm thinking about,

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Speaker 1: you know, like with children, how many children are medicated

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Speaker 1: now for fucking everything? Right, I'm wondering, you know, So

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Speaker 1: you said the core of a lot of what you

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Speaker 1: deal with with kids is anxiety, which manifests in a

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Speaker 1: range of ways and all the first cousins of anxiety.

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Speaker 1: I guess that if you know, so what a medication

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Speaker 1: does changes you know, brain chemistry, right, what does play

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Speaker 1: do changes brain chemistry? Like it's physiologically altering the child

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Speaker 1: without the potential side effects of a drug.

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Speaker 2: Oh exactly. And I think even when you were saying

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Speaker 2: actso plays that because it brings us into the present

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Speaker 2: moment and like you said, it's rewiring our brain. But

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Speaker 2: also exercise, and I think that that's a huge tool

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Speaker 2: for parents that we just don't talk about enough, especially

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Speaker 2: for parents. I mean, whether you've got anxiety or not,

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Speaker 2: becoming a parent is very anxiety provoking. You're so worried

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Speaker 2: about messing up your child. But if you didn't have anxiety,

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Speaker 2: you know, you come away with having some anxiety about

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Speaker 2: how you are showing up as a parent. So I

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Speaker 2: think exercise is such an important way as stress relief.

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Speaker 2: But also, like you said, it performs better than anti

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Speaker 2: depresidants and anti anxiety medication. It's just not I don't

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Speaker 2: think we talk about that as much as we should.

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Speaker 1: I would imagine also that like play with kids that

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Speaker 1: requires them to focus on something, it means now they're

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Speaker 1: not focusing on something negative, or now they're not distracted

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Speaker 1: with something negative. Like this requires your attention, you know.

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Speaker 1: It's like there's this old kind of kind of what

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Speaker 1: is it. It's like a puzzle. It's like, so, Sam,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to give you a million dollars if you

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Speaker 1: don't think about the number seven for the next thirty seconds, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And it's like, oh fuck, I don't think. Oh I

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Speaker 1: just thought. I don't think about them. I just thought

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Speaker 1: about it. Right, And so the answer, the answer to

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Speaker 1: that puzzle is not to try to think about to

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Speaker 1: to not try to think about the number seven. It's

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Speaker 1: to think about a cheeseburger, Like you just focus on

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Speaker 1: something different rather than try to not focus on a thing.

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Speaker 1: And so, yes, you know, when I know when I'm

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Speaker 1: feeling if which is not often, but if I'm sitting

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Speaker 1: there and I start to feel a bit I start

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Speaker 1: to go down an emotional end or psychological rabbit hole

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Speaker 1: that's not positive, I'm like, ah fuck. If I get

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Speaker 1: up and I go and do something like that requires

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Speaker 1: my energy and my attention and my focus and my

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Speaker 1: brain to be drawn to a particular task or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Now I'm out of that thing. Like now I'm moving

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Speaker 1: my body. I still haven't necessarily solved a problem, but

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Speaker 1: I've just stopped ruminating by giving my attention to something healthier.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And this is why I think play is such

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Speaker 2: a good talk for parents. And you know, we talked

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Speaker 2: about that repair. You know, for parents, they spend a

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Speaker 2: lot of time in their mind in the past, so

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Speaker 2: ruminating over past mistakes, how they handle things, how they

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Speaker 2: wish they could have done it better, or in the future,

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Speaker 2: which is all the worries of how maybe they've messed

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Speaker 2: up their child or all these things that could go wrong.

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Speaker 2: And so when a child wants to play with you,

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Speaker 2: that's an invitation to be in the present you are

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Speaker 2: like and it's really hard to by the way. That's

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Speaker 2: why a lot of parents are like I bought or

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Speaker 2: you know, thinking about all the things that they need

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Speaker 2: to do. But to actually be present with the child

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Speaker 2: is really you being in that moment. And I think

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Speaker 2: a lot of the times we think of mindfulness as

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Speaker 2: just quiet and calmness and yoga. No, mindfulness is also

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Speaker 2: not running yourself down, not judging yourself, not thinking of

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Speaker 2: West Kate scenarios, and actually being able to enjoy to

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Speaker 2: be present, enjoy that moment for what it is, and

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Speaker 2: be fully there. And I think that's why I play.

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Speaker 2: It can be really triggering for parents, but I think

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Speaker 2: it also can be really healing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I just want to circle back a little bit

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Speaker 1: to what we were talking about the impact that we

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Speaker 1: have on our kids. You know, when we you know,

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Speaker 1: we have our own shit, right, we have our own issues.

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Speaker 1: I literally talk to people about issues and behavior and

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Speaker 1: psychology for a living, and I've still got all my

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Speaker 1: own bullshit, right, Like knowing stuff doesn't necessarily fix you,

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Speaker 1: does it.

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Speaker 2: It's like doesn't unfortunately, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Like do I still have self esteem issues a little bit?

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Speaker 1: Do I still overthink a little bit? Do I still

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Speaker 1: feel like a fraud a little bit? You know? It's like, so,

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Speaker 1: you know, there's knowing something and then there's you know,

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Speaker 1: benefiting from that or yeah, you know, being human for sure.

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Speaker 1: But I'm thinking, you know, because we all have our

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Speaker 1: own bullshit, which we'll call, you know, psychological or emotional

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Speaker 1: or behavioral issues. And you know, let's say I've got

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Speaker 1: a self limiting belief that's somewhat irrational, and I believe

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Speaker 1: A B and C A B and c that's my

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Speaker 1: irrational self limiting doesn't make sense, fucking up my own

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Speaker 1: life belief. Now, if I'm always living in a version

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Speaker 1: of that self limiting paradigm, and I'm talking about that,

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Speaker 1: and I'm expressing that my kids are witnessing that, there's

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Speaker 1: a fair chance that's going to become their reality as well,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to pass my I guess my long winded

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Speaker 1: point is, I'm going to pass us on my own

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Speaker 1: bullshit to my kids unless I become more aware around them.

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Speaker 2: Definitely, because if you think about it, if you're trying

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Speaker 2: to be a perfect parent, then you will expect a

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Speaker 2: perfect child. So you're right, and also knowing that we

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Speaker 2: all have our own demons, but figuring out a way

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Speaker 2: to continue to move towards your values and live in

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Speaker 2: the way that you want amongst that, so I think, Oh,

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Speaker 2: psychology professor gave me this just best analogy while I

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Speaker 2: was doing my PhD and I was getting to the end,

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Speaker 2: and I was saying, to have done all this work,

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Speaker 2: like internally, like I've gone to therapy and you know,

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Speaker 2: learn all the things, and yet I feel like it's

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Speaker 2: getting harder the closer I get to this endpoint. And

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Speaker 2: all is like you said, limiting beliefs came out and

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Speaker 2: I'm getting in my own way and I'm like, what

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Speaker 2: else can I do? I feel like I've overthought this

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Speaker 2: so much. And she was like, well, we've all got

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Speaker 2: our own demons, and that's what you go to therapy for.

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Speaker 2: You you solve one demon, another one pops up, you

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Speaker 2: solve one like this is just a never ending process.

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Speaker 2: But what you kind of need to learn is learn

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Speaker 2: how to coach yourself, lead yourself where you can get

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Speaker 2: your demon, put it on the couch next to you

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Speaker 2: and say you chill here. I'm going to go like,

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Speaker 2: you're out of my way, chill here. I'm going to

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Speaker 2: keep doing the thing. And that's a really important skill

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Speaker 2: to have to show children where, yes, these things can

401
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Speaker 2: be running our head and we can have these limiting beliefs,

402
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Speaker 2: but how do we get out of our own way

403
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Speaker 2: and how do we take responsibility for our lives? And

404
00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:15,760
Speaker 2: the more that they see us do that which has

405
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Speaker 2: been grave with our lives, taking courage right, talking about

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Speaker 2: our values and moving towards that and really imperfect ways,

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Speaker 2: the more they learn how to do that rather than

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Speaker 2: going and to either all or nothing, and a lot

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Speaker 2: of people do that. I need to solve all my

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Speaker 2: adeemons before I can do the thing. I need to

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Speaker 2: have perfect conditions before I can do the thing, all

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Speaker 2: the reasons why they can't do it, versus going I

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Speaker 2: just need to learn how to get out of my

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Speaker 2: own way.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it makes complete sense. I reckon, if I was

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Speaker 1: a dad, there's every chance my kid or kids would

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Speaker 1: have had food issues because I had food issues, you know,

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Speaker 1: And I'm thinking I've thought about that. I'm like, wow,

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Speaker 1: like imagine because I was more with the ib skid

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Speaker 1: all this stuff, you know, fat kid eating issues and

421
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Speaker 1: like eating lots of food I didn't need, then hating

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Speaker 1: my body and hating myself, and then you know, becoming

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Speaker 1: fucking a maniac about exercise. And you know, I wonder

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Speaker 1: if and it took me, you know, I mean I

425
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Speaker 1: owned multiple gym sam and I was still doing dumb

426
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Speaker 1: shit to my own body like I was an ext

427
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Speaker 1: size scientist. I'm working with elead athletes, i own multiple gyms.

428
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Speaker 1: I'm like well known, I'm all this shit, and I'm

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Speaker 1: still shoving food in my face when no one's looking

430
00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,600
Speaker 1: at not these days, but for a long time, you know,

431
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:30,760
Speaker 1: maybe till I was in my mid thirties, when I

432
00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:35,200
Speaker 1: was well and truly educated and informed, but still fucking

433
00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:36,119
Speaker 1: out of control.

434
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:38,920
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, and it's a journey, right, And even

435
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 2: if you and that's the problem I think with a

436
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,160
Speaker 2: lot of these things, because parents are so worried about

437
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,119
Speaker 2: transferring that onto their child, they will see it. So

438
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:48,920
Speaker 2: for example, you'd have a child, and then your child

439
00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:51,040
Speaker 2: might I don't know, have a preference for one food,

440
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,440
Speaker 2: or you start to see some kind of concerning things

441
00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:57,080
Speaker 2: and you will go, wow, I've done. It's projected, and

442
00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:59,119
Speaker 2: you'll try and fix it and make it perfect. And

443
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:01,320
Speaker 2: so if the issues weren't already there, they will be

444
00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:03,880
Speaker 2: there because that's a lens that you have, right, which

445
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,600
Speaker 2: is I'm causing this, And every time your child has

446
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:09,919
Speaker 2: anything to do with food, you're in a story is

447
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:13,080
Speaker 2: I've caused this, I'm projecting I haven't got my shit together,

448
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:17,280
Speaker 2: versus going in some ways, we actually all have issues,

449
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:20,320
Speaker 2: you know, with our body image in some ways, so

450
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,400
Speaker 2: your child's not going to be immune from that. You're

451
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:25,959
Speaker 2: still struggling with that. You can use that experience as

452
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,040
Speaker 2: empathy in going, I don't need to fix this for

453
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:29,960
Speaker 2: my child, but I can share my own journey. I

454
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:31,879
Speaker 2: can share that I also haven't figured it out and

455
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,600
Speaker 2: I'm still learning things, and I'm experimenting with what works

456
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:36,639
Speaker 2: for my body, and I fall off the track and

457
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,960
Speaker 2: then I get back on it. And that's a very compassionate,

458
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:43,720
Speaker 2: curious way to approach that versus that shame based, which

459
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,720
Speaker 2: is I need to get it right. I don't want

460
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,280
Speaker 2: to stuff up my child, so I think they should. Yeah,

461
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:50,760
Speaker 2: a lot of parents can really look at it in

462
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:52,680
Speaker 2: two different ways, which is, I don't want to project

463
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:55,200
Speaker 2: versus this can actually give me empathy. So if I've

464
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 2: got anxiety, my child's got it, or if I've got body

465
00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:58,879
Speaker 2: issues and my child's got it, I'm going to have

466
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,439
Speaker 2: this empathy knowing I know what it's like to have

467
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 2: this struggle when it's not going to be just fixed

468
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,200
Speaker 2: straight away. So let's be more kind to ourselves while

469
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:06,960
Speaker 2: we do that work.

470
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:11,520
Speaker 1: Is it tough for you? I was thinking about this

471
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,840
Speaker 1: last time we spoke, but I forgot to ask, like,

472
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 1: is it tough for you in twenty twenty four, twenty five,

473
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:26,160
Speaker 1: almost twenty five? When you've got to I mean, you've

474
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:28,639
Speaker 1: you've got to be politically correct. Of course, got to

475
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:31,920
Speaker 1: be enlightened and all of these things, which I'm on board.

476
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 1: But boys and girls aren't the same biologically and sociologically.

477
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:42,640
Speaker 1: And we know that girls mature generally speaking, quicker, their

478
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 1: brains develop develop quicker, you know, their prefrontal cortex develops

479
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:52,760
Speaker 1: or is kind of set earlier than men. And you

480
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 1: know there are these how do you navigate and negotiate

481
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 1: these differences without getting in trouble? Like because I feel

482
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:04,879
Speaker 1: like it's you know, you can't go, oh, boys are

483
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:06,679
Speaker 1: this and girls are that. I feel like that's a

484
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:08,440
Speaker 1: slippery slope.

485
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,159
Speaker 2: It very much is. And I think you know, everyone's

486
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,440
Speaker 2: like ready to like bounce me, like what you said.

487
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:15,480
Speaker 2: But I think to even go more than that, which

488
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 2: is even within girls, everyone's got different experiences. Every girl's

489
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 2: different and same with boys. So I think, you know,

490
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,119
Speaker 2: we need to just just know that every human is

491
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 2: unique based on their experiences and what's going on for

492
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,360
Speaker 2: them and their contents and their environment. And I yeah,

493
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 2: the more that we can use research to in foremost

494
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 2: but actually really connects with the child in front of

495
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 2: us and what they're showing us, I think that's probably

496
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:37,440
Speaker 2: the best way to go.

497
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:39,960
Speaker 1: But I mean, we know we're not going to see

498
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,640
Speaker 1: girls out on you know, preppies and grade ones out

499
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:48,040
Speaker 1: on the playground wrestling the girls just wrestling, and you know,

500
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 1: maybe some but yeah, I guess I get I don't

501
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 1: know what I'm asking. I just feel like that's I

502
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:56,920
Speaker 1: would struggle with that. I just think, oh, I'd get

503
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 1: myself in trouble because I'd probably say something that people

504
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:03,160
Speaker 1: go oh oh so hard these days.

505
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 2: And the thing is, really there's not anything you can

506
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 2: say that won't get someone to have an opinion about it. Right,

507
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 2: You say something and everyone's like, well, it could be

508
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,119
Speaker 2: the other way, Like there's always going to be different

509
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 2: in opinions. So I think, yeah, it's so important to

510
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:15,200
Speaker 2: keep that in mind too.

511
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 1: You spoke before about you having a therapist for a

512
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:24,920
Speaker 1: period of time and you're doing therapy. What does that feel?

513
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,159
Speaker 1: Free to answer and not answer this or open the

514
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 1: door as wide or as narrow as you want, but

515
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,199
Speaker 1: can you share with us what were some of the

516
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 1: stuff without revealing you know you deep as darkest, But like,

517
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,399
Speaker 1: I love it when somebody like you who is you know,

518
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,240
Speaker 1: a therapist who's got a doctorate, who's smart who works

519
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:46,119
Speaker 1: with people. You go, yeah, by the way, I'm a

520
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 1: little bit fucked up myself, Like what is right? You know,

521
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 1: I'm still dealing with shit because I'm human, you know, Yes.

522
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,679
Speaker 2: So I've had different experiences. So what fair brought me

523
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 2: to therapy? Going to be honest, I had to do

524
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 2: it to become a play therapist, so we have to

525
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 2: undertake it was like fifty hours of personal therapy. So

526
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:06,439
Speaker 2: I was in therapy for one hour a week for

527
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 2: about a year. And because it's not saying it's force,

528
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 2: but because there was obviously a reason to it, I

529
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:13,879
Speaker 2: was like, Okay, I'm going to really be open to

530
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 2: this experience, do the inner child work that I need to.

531
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 2: And that was great. But what was really good is

532
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 2: when I came to therapy by myself, and that's when

533
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,399
Speaker 2: I became a mum, and I was like, let me,

534
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 2: you know my as mums do. Let me try and

535
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 2: deal with my own my own shit so that I

536
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,920
Speaker 2: don't projected onto my child. And this is what's coming

537
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 2: up for me. And you know, it did take me

538
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,920
Speaker 2: a few goes to find the right kind of therapist

539
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 2: and one that was really honest. You know, I didn't

540
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 2: want a therapist that would just tell me what I

541
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:46,399
Speaker 2: want to hear. I'm like, please, like, call me out

542
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 2: of my blind spots here, What am I missing? What

543
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 2: am I So? I think it was really good to

544
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:54,919
Speaker 2: have that experience as I entered parenthood. But then I

545
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:56,879
Speaker 2: used it for a while when I felt like I

546
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:58,959
Speaker 2: needed it to talk things through or to again get

547
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,639
Speaker 2: out of my own head a bit and about stuff back.

548
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 2: And what was awesome about it was I had a

549
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:09,120
Speaker 2: therapist that was really good at actually uncovering my again

550
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:12,879
Speaker 2: really connecting to the child, but uncovering my unmet needs

551
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 2: you know as a child, or my experiences as a

552
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:17,199
Speaker 2: child and how that's impacting me as an adult. And

553
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 2: so it gave me this deeper understanding of myself. But

554
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,440
Speaker 2: it also showed me where I needed to take more

555
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 2: responsibility for my life. And I think that's really the

556
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:27,720
Speaker 2: key to it. I think we can come to therapy

557
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,359
Speaker 2: to maybe get validated or to try and talk about

558
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 2: you know, what horrible situation you know other people are

559
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,479
Speaker 2: aware in and how stressful all the external stuff is.

560
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 2: But if you come to therapy with this, I really

561
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 2: want to understand more of myself, Like the good, the

562
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:43,199
Speaker 2: bad all the parts, and then where I can actually

563
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 2: make changes. That's the key to it, and that's what

564
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 2: I did. I think more so in the self initiated,

565
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,399
Speaker 2: you know, being a parent. Part of the therapy is

566
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:54,879
Speaker 2: when I was so committed in between the sessions to

567
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:56,879
Speaker 2: do the work and to come back with this is what,

568
00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,439
Speaker 2: this is what, this is what I was trialing and

569
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 2: then continue to work from there. And so I really

570
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 2: do believe. Again, so people come to therapy and they

571
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:07,639
Speaker 2: think therapists have the answers. I didn't come to therapy

572
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 2: like that. I came to therapy going I know that

573
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 2: this is my life. I'm the expert in my life,

574
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 2: and they're here to maybe be a mirror to show

575
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 2: me things, to help me reflect onto things. But I

576
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 2: have to do the work outside therapy or nothing's going

577
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 2: to change.

578
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like therapists, personal trainers, exercise physiologists, life coaches.

579
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 1: I don't really like putting them in that. But you know,

580
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 1: there's a whole group of people that, not so much

581
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: doctors because it's generally in and out for twelve minutes

582
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 1: or something, but people who work with people one on

583
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 1: one for an hour or forty five minutes on a

584
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 1: regular basis. It's like, you know, there are great therapists

585
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 1: and terrible ones. There are great trainers and terrible ones.

586
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 1: There are great dietitians and terrible ones, and good bricklayers

587
00:28:56,280 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 1: and bad ones. You know, it's like that. You know,

588
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 1: my background is owning gyms right and PT centers specifically,

589
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 1: and like what I what I would have thought going

590
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 1: into that, which is like, well, the most qualified, the

591
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 1: most knowledgeable, the most skilled, they will be the most successful,

592
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 1: And it just was almost never the case. I'm like, oh, like,

593
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 1: some of my trainers had the most basic quality. I

594
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 1: mean literally I had everything from PhD qualified people down

595
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 1: to certificate three and four right and everyone in between.

596
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 1: But probably at least half my trainers were a fitness

597
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 1: industry qualified kind of fundamental quals right three and four

598
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 1: cert but without doubt the probably the best five trainers

599
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 1: I had, and I could qualify best. But just in

600
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 1: terms of all round performance, client retention didn't injure people.

601
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 1: People made good progress, they got good results, they loved

602
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 1: the experience, they said positive things. These particular trainers had

603
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 1: very very little drop off. They were all just awesome humans,

604
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 1: Like they were all just funny, good people, good personalities.

605
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 1: They cared. I mean, it's so basic, right, And they

606
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 1: were just gave a fuck about the people they worked with,

607
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 1: and they were consistent and they were good. And you know,

608
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 1: I've said this. I don't think I said this to you,

609
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 1: but I've said this a bunch of times over the years.

610
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 1: But in all the years that I worked as a

611
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 1: trainer and as a gym owner and as a high

612
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 1: performance coach with athletes and teams and all those things,

613
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 1: in all those years, I got asked once what my

614
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 1: qualification was? Once? Wow, like, what is your qualification? And

615
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 1: it was only a lady who was She only wanted

616
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 1: to know, not because she was checking up on me

617
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 1: or doubting me, but she wanted to do what I did.

618
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 1: She's like, you know, and so not that we shouldn't

619
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 1: be qualified or knowledgeable or skilled. Of course, we're not

620
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 1: saying that all those things are, you know, imperative. But

621
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 1: like if you've got a pH d in psychology, but

622
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 1: you sit down with people and they don't enjoy being

623
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 1: around you, well good luck.

624
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 2: Oh exactly if you're like judging them and you're like

625
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 2: criticizing them in your mind and you know, you're you're

626
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 2: you know, not really present with them, and you're assessing

627
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 2: them in a way that doesn't align right with what

628
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 2: they're actually saying and what they're trying to in how

629
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 2: they're trying to connect with you. Then you're right, you're

630
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 2: not gonna You're not going to be someone that they'll

631
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 2: want to come back to. And I think it's a

632
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 2: really good point of what you said, like just generally

633
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 2: caring about their lives and wanting to support them, and

634
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 2: you've even see that in your industry. I think it

635
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 2: then just shows how relatable it is, right, Like.

636
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 1: This is, this is so fundamental. It seems like, oh,

637
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 1: that couldn't possibly work. I used to say too, And

638
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 1: I would say to any trainer listening, any professional listening,

639
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 1: especially you know, people to do what you and I do, right,

640
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 1: which is like one on one stuff, like apart from

641
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 1: all the other factors and variables. Do they want to

642
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 1: come back? Like? Do they like especially when you're a

643
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 1: trainer and you see someone three times a week? Right? Yeah?

644
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 1: I trained one lady who definitely didn't need me to

645
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 1: train her after the first year, but I trained her

646
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 1: sixteen years, like sixteen years, three, four, five, days a week, right,

647
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,480
Speaker 1: And she didn't need me, but she just would. She

648
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 1: could afford it. She was wealthy, so it wasn't an issue.

649
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 1: She went, I know I could train by myself, but

650
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 1: I don't want to. I just get better results. I

651
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 1: enjoy it more. I'm more consistent for these reasons. And

652
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 1: if you will train me I want, I'm like great.

653
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 1: And you know I ask bosses Sam when I go

654
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 1: and I do corporate stuff or I'm consulting, or I'm speaking,

655
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 1: or I'm kind of problem solving or doing team building

656
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 1: stuff or you know, cultural or communication stuff, I ask

657
00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 1: the boss him or her, whoever that is. I go,

658
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 1: do your staff like being here? Is this a place

659
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 1: that they want to come to and that they don't

660
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 1: even think about this? I go, is this an environment

661
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 1: and a culture that your people get out of bed

662
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 1: and look forward to coming to this place? And if

663
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 1: the answer to that is no, that's where you need

664
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 1: to start.

665
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 2: Definitely. That's such an important question that I think a

666
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 2: lot of leaders would not ask. And I mean for you, though,

667
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 2: do you think the reason why you've been so successful,

668
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 2: especially in that industry, is because you've had your own

669
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 2: personal journey with exercise?

670
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 1: I think, yes, I think like I have hund percent.

671
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 2: Yeah.

672
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 1: And so when I talk about whatever obesity or body

673
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 1: dysmorphia or fucking self loathing or I'm not talking from

674
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 1: a research perspective. I'm talking about experientially. I go, I know,

675
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 1: I know what it's like to hate how you look.

676
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 1: I know what it's like to get on the scales

677
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 1: and be depressed. I know what it's like to look

678
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 1: in the mirror and feel sad. I know what it's

679
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: like to be picked last for a team because you're fat.

680
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 1: I know, I know, right, And there's no self pity

681
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 1: in this. But that's my experience. And so you know,

682
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 1: I have a soft soft spot for people who struggle

683
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 1: with all of it, which is what.

684
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 2: You see them, right, like you actually see them because

685
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,839
Speaker 2: imagine if you didn't have that, you could see how

686
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 2: you could have a trainer, right that's never had that struggle.

687
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 2: And they may again not intentionally, but be like, it's

688
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 2: not that hard, like and it's and when they say

689
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 2: it's different, because it fact way you've always had that,

690
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,400
Speaker 2: But knowing your struggles, you're like, no, this is what

691
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 2: the way that you would kind of speak that out

692
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 2: would be so different.

693
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, it just dawned on me as you were talking.

694
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:48,360
Speaker 1: It's like, I, this is going to sound bad, but

695
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:52,320
Speaker 1: it's like people that don't have great genetics that really

696
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 1: struggle to be in shape that you know, it's like

697
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 1: they're my people.

698
00:34:57,680 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 2: It's like that is your audience.

699
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,840
Speaker 1: People right now. I've worked with lots of elite athletes,

700
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 1: national international athletes, Olympians, all that, and I can work

701
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 1: with them, and I'm quite a good conditioning coach and

702
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:13,360
Speaker 1: all of that, XI scientists, but I can do all that,

703
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:18,880
Speaker 1: but I kind of feel in that environment or I

704
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 1: have a capacity to feel like I don't belong because

705
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 1: I was not a good athlete. I was not gifted genetically.

706
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,840
Speaker 1: I didn't have great sporting talent. And even though I

707
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:30,919
Speaker 1: can do that job and I can be a good

708
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: coach and I can help people get better in that

709
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:36,400
Speaker 1: environment as well, but it's funny when I'm back talking

710
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 1: to someone who just struggles with self esteem and self

711
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 1: worth and body image and not very great genetics, and

712
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 1: you know, I'm like, yeah, I'm in my natural habitat.

713
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 1: This is where I belong.

714
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:49,320
Speaker 2: You're like, you speak my language.

715
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:51,840
Speaker 1: I'm like, I get it. I get it. You know,

716
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 1: I just I just want to give them a you know,

717
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 1: if not a literal hugger, you know, a virtual hug.

718
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:05,360
Speaker 1: So so if we're like from a just back quickly

719
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 1: to the parenting thing and the kids thing. It's like,

720
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 1: is there this is a very broad question, But how

721
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 1: do I know if I'm doing a good job? Like

722
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 1: what's the data telling me? And it's you know, not

723
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 1: to be preoccupied with that, but it's like, well, clearly,

724
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 1: if I'm a parent, I want to be a good parent.

725
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 1: If I'm a good parent, what's happening? How do I know?

726
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 1: And I guess conversely, not if I'm a shit parent,

727
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 1: but if I need to maybe work on stuff, you know, how.

728
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 2: Do I know what you define is good?

729
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,439
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know, you don't. I mean, like, do

730
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:47,800
Speaker 1: we need to like do we need to think about

731
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 1: I mean, we don't want to overthink shit because we

732
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:53,360
Speaker 1: don't want to complicate shit. But at the same time,

733
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 1: want it or not, like it or not. You're shaping

734
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:03,720
Speaker 1: this human like this, you're programming and training this human.

735
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 1: And you're training this little human when they are the

736
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 1: most malleable and they are becoming a version of you,

737
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 1: like it or not. Yeah, yeah, so how do I Yeah,

738
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:21,320
Speaker 1: this is hard.

739
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 2: To spit though, be kids. You're right, you know, the

740
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 2: parent in ch our relationship. I mean they say it's

741
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 2: one of the the most influential obviously relationship, right, it's

742
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:31,719
Speaker 2: setting the foundations for all the other relationships. The attachment,

743
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:34,399
Speaker 2: it's so so important. But at the same time, it's

744
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 2: not the only input in their lives. You know, children

745
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 2: go to school, right, They're getting influenced by other people,

746
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 2: other teachers, other kids. So I think when we define

747
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 2: good parenting, what we have to really kind of get

748
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:49,319
Speaker 2: to what is our definition of good? Because if it's

749
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 2: a good a good parenting is having a child that's

750
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 2: happy all the time. Then when your child is sad,

751
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:55,879
Speaker 2: you're going to feel like you're failing. When your child

752
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:57,799
Speaker 2: is angry, you're gonna feel like you're failing. And so

753
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,040
Speaker 2: then you're not actually being present with them in what

754
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 2: they need to be present with, which is actually being

755
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 2: able to experience life fully. And so I think that yeah,

756
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 2: really getting to what is good versus yeah, how do

757
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 2: we I guess, focus on what we can which is

758
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 2: our relationship with our child, and what is the relationship

759
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,719
Speaker 2: It's a connection it's the emotional connection. So I think

760
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:20,839
Speaker 2: really being able to go back and do their inner

761
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 2: work so that you are emotionally connected to yourself and

762
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 2: you're getting your emotional needs met and then going how

763
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 2: am I showing up in this relationship with my child?

764
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 2: And so research you know, I always thought it was

765
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:31,400
Speaker 2: like if you most of the time, if you're you know,

766
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 2: responding to your child, great, then you're good. But research shows,

767
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 2: especially with secure attachment. So they have the safe of

768
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,279
Speaker 2: Security training and in that training, evidence based program and

769
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 2: they teach you that only three percent of the time

770
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 2: if you're responding to your child's needs, and that is

771
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:48,400
Speaker 2: what you know can lead to a secure attachment. So

772
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 2: I think it's yeah important when we talk about those

773
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 2: emotional needs. It's feeling seen, head validated, accepted, and understood

774
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 2: for who they are. And I think play provides this

775
00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:00,879
Speaker 2: amazing space for that because it's got these conditions where

776
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 2: we can create that therapeutic environment. But also they're not

777
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:09,239
Speaker 2: overly worrying about constantly are we doing the right thing

778
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 2: and did we respond in the right way twenty four

779
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 2: to seven, because that can actually cause other issues that

780
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:15,319
Speaker 2: can cause a child that's struggling with anxiety and perfectionism

781
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 2: because everything has to be perfect. So I think moving

782
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:22,360
Speaker 2: away from good versus maybe living a meaningful life, how

783
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 2: do we help children actually be really connected to themselves

784
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:26,279
Speaker 2: in the world. How do we help our children live

785
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 2: out values? What are our values? So I think that's

786
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 2: probably more of a focal point.

787
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 1: Is to.

788
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, be more aligned and being able to actually live

789
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 2: that out with our kids.

790
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 1: So every morning, as I said to you before, I

791
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 1: go and sit in this cafe and there's a dude

792
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 1: who comes in. His name is James will I'll give

793
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:49,360
Speaker 1: a shout out to James. Used to play footy for

794
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 1: sin Kilda. He was a gun. Anyway, it's got the

795
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 1: most gorgeous little girl called Rosie who for some reason,

796
00:39:56,920 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 1: Rosie has taken a shine to Uncle Harps. And one

797
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:04,840
Speaker 1: day he was just anyway, he was sitting to one side,

798
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 1: and she just walked over to me and put up

799
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 1: her arms and I went okay, So then she just

800
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:12,839
Speaker 1: sat with me. Anyway, Now every time she comes in,

801
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:17,800
Speaker 1: she sits like on my lap and I get my phone.

802
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 1: This is probably bad, but she sits on my lap

803
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 1: and so she's she's got her little arms on the table.

804
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:24,799
Speaker 1: I've got my arms on the table. I'll get my

805
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:30,360
Speaker 1: phone out and I will put on like a Bluey

806
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 1: cartoon or a clip from Bluey. Right, I'm all over.

807
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:34,760
Speaker 2: It anyway, Louie.

808
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:39,359
Speaker 1: Yeah. Right. So the other day she comes in and

809
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 1: she because she knows what she wants. She just wants

810
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 1: to come and sit with me and fuck around on

811
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 1: the phone. And she'll pick up the salt shaker and

812
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:50,719
Speaker 1: hand it to me, and then the pepper shaker and

813
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:53,399
Speaker 1: hand it to me, and then it's this whole thing.

814
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 1: But I was, I was. I don't know how old

815
00:40:57,120 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 1: she's I should know, but I feel like she's no

816
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:03,200
Speaker 1: more than eight months, so she's little, right, But she

817
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 1: just she gets my phone and she just she knows

818
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:10,240
Speaker 1: how to use that phone. Yeah, she's like finding stuff

819
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 1: and scrolling. And I mean she's not typing in things,

820
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:17,880
Speaker 1: of course, yes, but to an extent she can navigate

821
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 1: her way around that phone, which and I mean, I

822
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 1: don't want to have this. Oh, screens are killing our

823
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:26,800
Speaker 1: kids and all that, because it's been so talked about.

824
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:30,839
Speaker 1: But when you talk about play therapy, yeah, does that

825
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 1: involve that kind of play? Does that involve kids playing

826
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:38,480
Speaker 1: computer games or is this not really in the context

827
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 1: of what you do?

828
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:42,800
Speaker 2: So in traditional obviously play therapy, you know, we don't

829
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 2: have that. But I think what I'm and what a

830
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 2: lot of play therapist society to do, is to really

831
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:50,759
Speaker 2: get these skills to be more applicable to this day

832
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 2: and not just this day and age, but to other

833
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,319
Speaker 2: activities as well. So, yeah, there are principles that you

834
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:57,799
Speaker 2: can still use in the online world or in the

835
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:00,120
Speaker 2: in the gaming I mean, there's lots of therapist that

836
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:03,279
Speaker 2: have even combined like minecraft and therapy, you know, and

837
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 2: kind of been really creative in the ways that they're

838
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:09,839
Speaker 2: joining the technology stuff into it. So I think, yes,

839
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:13,440
Speaker 2: if we can be more flexible and adaptable, then we

840
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 2: can still use the therapeutic principles in the online space,

841
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:21,080
Speaker 2: and if anything, it opens up so much more. Doraws too.

842
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, my last one before we let you go,

843
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:28,840
Speaker 1: And I know you're young, you're young, you're a puppet,

844
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:34,719
Speaker 1: but do you think there's more anxiety in kids? You know,

845
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 1: let's just say your group three. Did you say three

846
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:38,279
Speaker 1: to twelve? Is your group two to twelve?

847
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 2: Ye?

848
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 1: Do you think there's more anxiety in that group? Now?

849
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:43,360
Speaker 1: Then do you think there's more anxiety in that group

850
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:46,760
Speaker 1: now than say twenty years ago when you were a kid,

851
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:50,840
Speaker 1: or do you think we just have far more awareness about,

852
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 1: you know, the anxiety that is there.

853
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:56,879
Speaker 2: Maybe a bit of both, really, I mean, I think

854
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 2: that there is a lot more anxiety and even for

855
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:01,759
Speaker 2: parents as well kids, there's so much more pressure, like

856
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:03,799
Speaker 2: to be all the things to their child. And you

857
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:07,799
Speaker 2: know that that I'm influencing, you know, influencing this child.

858
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 2: I'm raising a child. This is like a huge responsibility

859
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:12,400
Speaker 2: can get them to be very anxious. And like I said,

860
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:14,280
Speaker 2: a child, I mean, a parent trying to be perfect

861
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:15,880
Speaker 2: is going to raise a child that's trying to be perfect.

862
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:18,359
Speaker 2: So there's one part to it. But yeah, you're also right,

863
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 2: a lot of things that parents won't even know in

864
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:23,920
Speaker 2: the previous generation was anxiety is now talked about. We're

865
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:26,279
Speaker 2: putting names to it, we're talking about those feelings in

866
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 2: our bodies that you know are anxiety driven. We're talking

867
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:33,799
Speaker 2: about all these other things to do with anxiety. So yeah,

868
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:34,759
Speaker 2: I think it's a bit of both.

869
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:41,279
Speaker 1: I'd say, yeah, yeah, I also I wonder what you know,

870
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,160
Speaker 1: it's like we're talking about this to a little bit

871
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:45,799
Speaker 1: it's a bit of a dead horse, but I just

872
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:49,239
Speaker 1: like your take on it. I mean, like, we want

873
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 1: our kids to be able to adapt and be flexible

874
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 1: and to be able to socialize in different contexts, and

875
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:57,920
Speaker 1: we want them to be you know, within reason. We

876
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:00,760
Speaker 1: want them to be resilient and all of those things,

877
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:03,279
Speaker 1: but at the same time, we want to protect them

878
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 1: from everything like this exactly, this dichotomy. It's like, I

879
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 1: want my kids to be strong, but I don't ever

880
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:12,800
Speaker 1: want them to do anything hard.

881
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, and yeah, I want them to predict them

882
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 2: from all the things, but then I want them to

883
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 2: build like he said, this resilience. But also if you

884
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 2: really look at a lot of parents' descriptions of what

885
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 2: they want their child to be, it's like, well, how

886
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 2: far away away from this idea idlows version of a

887
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 2: human because you'll see you'll see parents put their child

888
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 2: in three four, five extra reproductivities, but they don't have

889
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 2: a hobby themselves. And so it's so easy for us

890
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 2: as adults to sit on the sidelines and be like

891
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:41,719
Speaker 2: you go do this and like, you know, be this

892
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:45,680
Speaker 2: like perfectly well balanced human, while we're like not even

893
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:48,279
Speaker 2: on that path or not even seeing the benefit of that.

894
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 2: So I think, yeah, we're having really unrealistic expectations of

895
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:54,799
Speaker 2: what the human can be like because it is our

896
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 2: child and we're like, I want all the best things

897
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 2: for them. But then yeah, that's a lot of pressure,

898
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 2: a lot of press if they're not on the journey to.

899
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:05,799
Speaker 1: What's on the what's in the agenda for Christmas? For

900
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:07,320
Speaker 1: the good doc and the kids.

901
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 2: Wow, I live in a small town, so we'll be

902
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:14,600
Speaker 2: having you know, a nice summers the Christmas, you know,

903
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:17,760
Speaker 2: with in the pool and lots of food. Of course,

904
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:18,760
Speaker 2: that would be really great.

905
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:22,920
Speaker 1: What about you did you did you say, Margaret River? No?

906
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 1: Oh wow, that's north That's wow.

907
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 2: Ap Pilbra Christmas for me this year.

908
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 1: Get that hot up there. I'm just going to see

909
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 1: my folks. My folks, understandably, are pretty old and you

910
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:43,440
Speaker 1: get to a point where you don't know how many

911
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:45,840
Speaker 1: Christmas is you're going to have left with those people,

912
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:49,120
Speaker 1: you know, so God bless their little socks. So I'm

913
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:53,399
Speaker 1: heading up to see Ron and Mary and yeah, we'll

914
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:56,479
Speaker 1: see how that goes. So it's you know, it won't

915
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 1: be any it won't be anything exciting, but it's nice

916
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 1: I just like spending time with them. Like it's funny

917
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:05,959
Speaker 1: the older that I become and the older of course

918
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:08,719
Speaker 1: that they become. You know, you think a little bit

919
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:10,719
Speaker 1: like that. You think, I wonder how many they live

920
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:13,359
Speaker 1: two hours away from me. I wonder how many more

921
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 1: times I'll drive up this road. You know, I don't

922
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:16,280
Speaker 1: want to have any.

923
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:18,359
Speaker 2: More Christmases that you have with them and all of that.

924
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:23,799
Speaker 1: So yeah, Hey, if people want to find you, follow you,

925
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:27,520
Speaker 1: connect with you, see you on social media, or shoot

926
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 1: you an email or something like that, how does that happen?

927
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:34,440
Speaker 2: So my Instagram is just my name Dr Sam Casey,

928
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:36,520
Speaker 2: or they can find me on my website which is

929
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 2: www dot dotor Samkacy dot com probably my two main ones.

930
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:42,799
Speaker 2: So yeah, they'll be able to contact me.

931
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:46,440
Speaker 1: And say that Sam your I appreciate you. Thank you

932
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:50,279
Speaker 1: for coming on again. We'll say goodbye once we sign off.

933
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 1: We'll do that off air, but for the moment, thanks

934
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:53,439
Speaker 1: for being on the new project again.

935
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:55,280
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for having me again.