1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:02,920 Speaker 1: I'll get a team. It's Craig Anthony Harper, it's you project, 2 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:05,480 Speaker 1: It's doctor Sam Casey. What's your middle name? Sam? I 3 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: have this bad habit. What is it? Sherry Sherry, Doctor 4 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: Sam Sherry Casey, Craig Anthony Harper, Sam Sherry Casey. Hi, Doc, 5 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:19,479 Speaker 1: How it's Thursday afternoon? Well, it's Thursday evening here in 6 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:23,159 Speaker 1: the Eastern States. It's afternoon where you are? How you? 7 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:25,959 Speaker 1: How's your week been so far? We're sliding towards the 8 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 1: big fat red feller in the suit and the reindeer. 9 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:32,159 Speaker 1: It's only six days away? 10 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:35,479 Speaker 2: How we six days away? And I have like a 11 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 2: box of presents that have arrived from my kids and 12 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 2: I haven't wrapped yet. So that's this weekend's plan is 13 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 2: to wrap all the present. 14 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 1: So yeah, just for my audience who has not met 15 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:50,959 Speaker 1: you yet, because you've only been here once. So this 16 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 1: is your this is your follow up appearance. Just tell 17 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: my listeners just a quick revisit of who you are, 18 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 1: what you do, your job, your PhD, and just a 19 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: quick snapshot of you so they understand who they're listening to. 20 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 2: Yep. Great, Super hard to put into a sentence, right 21 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 2: because it's multi faceted. 22 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 1: But I'm make stuff. 23 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:18,400 Speaker 2: I'm a therapist wait to children families. For over eighteen years, 24 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 2: I've created the play Prescription Methods, so wanting to teach 25 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:26,839 Speaker 2: parents and professionals how to use therapeutic play to solve 26 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 2: common childhood issues and parenting stuff. And my PhD was 27 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:35,400 Speaker 2: in play therapy and psychology, so I'm really passionate about 28 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:38,959 Speaker 2: all things like therapy and psychology. And yeah, that's me 29 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 2: in a nutshell. 30 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:46,320 Speaker 1: Has it been Has it been really well received by 31 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 1: people who are in the field who are kind of 32 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: not exactly do what you do, but kind of adjacent, 33 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 1: you know, working with kids therapy, like helping kids with 34 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: mental health issues and socially shoes And how is it 35 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 1: received by other people who don't do what you do 36 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 1: but are in the space. 37 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, good question. I feel like, you know, when I 38 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 2: was doing my PhD, right, I was calling out a 39 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 2: lot of like therapists fives and their own I guess 40 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 2: stuff and how that comes into therapy. And it was 41 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 2: obviously really controversial thing. And you know, one of my examiners, 42 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 2: I think I mentioned this on my previous episode, that 43 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 2: it was much of the top five percent and she said, 44 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:31,679 Speaker 2: you call out like the elephant in the room, the 45 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 2: stuff that no one wants to talk about. And I 46 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 2: feel like that's kind of been my experience since doing 47 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 2: my PhD and in the industry where a lot of 48 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 2: the therapists, you know, do say that. To me, I'm 49 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 2: not kind of talking about generic stuff, and I don't 50 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 2: sound like other therapists. I'm talking about things that people 51 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 2: feel really uncomfortable to talk about. But it's important stuff. 52 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 2: So I definitely feel like there is good, good stuff, 53 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 2: and I also think it probably really does trigger people too, 54 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 2: So yeah, it's either gonna love it. 55 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 1: Or hate it range generally of the kids that you 56 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:03,119 Speaker 1: work with. 57 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 2: So play therapy is really from three to twelve. But 58 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 2: you know, my shift has really been on the parents 59 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:14,799 Speaker 2: with these age kids, because ultimately, that's what's going to 60 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:18,519 Speaker 2: make the most sustainable changes is when you give parents 61 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 2: the insight into understanding their child more and being able 62 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:23,080 Speaker 2: to use all these strategies that I would use in 63 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 2: the playroom in the therapy room at home. 64 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: H What's interesting about when you think about helping kid 65 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: like therapy, right, So there's there's a therapeutic intent that 66 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 1: is to help the kid in some way. What are 67 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: I've got another point I want to make, but before 68 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: I get to that, what are some of the mental 69 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: health or behavioral or sociological issues that you deal with? Like, 70 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 1: what are some of the typical problems. I don't know 71 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: if that's the right word, but let's just go with that. 72 00:03:57,400 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: Some issues that you deal with. 73 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 2: I think the main ones really are anxiety, so whether 74 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 2: it's separation anxiety, or anxiety at school, which can come 75 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 2: off as like perfectionism, or even kids not even wanting 76 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 2: to try because they're so worried about getting it wrong, 77 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 2: you know, school refusal, anger, which is a big one, 78 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 2: especially for young boys. Self esteem issues. So really I 79 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 2: feel like I categorize them in the internalizing presentations and 80 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 2: the externalizing. So externalizing is the stuff that we see 81 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:32,360 Speaker 2: that it's coming out to the aggression, the anger, you know, 82 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:36,159 Speaker 2: behavioral stuff, DeFi it's all of that outwardly, you know 83 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 2: what parents would these disruptive behaviors. But then the internalizing 84 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:42,359 Speaker 2: stuff is the anxiety. It's the stuff that's really happening 85 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:45,159 Speaker 2: on the inside that really feels like it's shoved down. 86 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 2: And then you know, children will have an outburst and 87 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:48,479 Speaker 2: parents like, where did that come from? Like they're not 88 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:51,040 Speaker 2: normally like this, but it's obviously been bubbling away. So 89 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 2: that's the anxiety stuff. Yeah, So I would say that 90 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 2: that's the most common presentations. 91 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:58,839 Speaker 1: And so I guess some of that outward stuff that 92 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 1: you see is almost just the byproduct of the problem, 93 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 1: not really the problem itself. It's like definitely the underlying stuff, 94 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 1: which is the catal like, this is the issue. It's like, 95 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 1: but now what you're seeing is little Johnny acting out, 96 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 1: But you need to figure out what's underneath that to 97 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 1: stop the acting out or to address that. 98 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:20,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I try and explain that to parents when 99 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:22,719 Speaker 2: they're talking about say little Johnny, and they're like, all 100 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 2: he does is head other people and he's you know, 101 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 2: really like mean to everyone. And I'm like, so where 102 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 2: that starts is Johnny being mean to himself, Like he's 103 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 2: heading on the inside. And often there's that kind of 104 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 2: critical self talk that's actually going in first. You know 105 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:39,160 Speaker 2: that saying hurt people hurt people. So we really want 106 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 2: to get to the underlying pain and to be able 107 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 2: to empathize with that and to connect children with that. 108 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 2: And a lot of the time, especially boys, they have 109 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:50,719 Speaker 2: some really critical self talk, like no one wants me around, 110 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 2: I'm always doing bad things, no one likes me, you know, 111 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 2: just really like really really struggling with that shame and 112 00:05:57,720 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 2: being able to come back from you know, when they 113 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:01,679 Speaker 2: do that doesn't feel good. 114 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 1: Why do you think that's more boys? You say a 115 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 1: lot of boys. What is that about? 116 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 2: I think? And this definitely, you know, is obviously prevalent 117 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 2: in our society for men. But you know, parents, you know, 118 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 2: there's obviously there's probably like biological reasons here too, but 119 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 2: I think if we just talk about the sociological reasons, 120 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:27,600 Speaker 2: the expectations for boys and girls are very different. So 121 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 2: parents parents their children differently. So when there's girls, there 122 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:35,040 Speaker 2: is a lot more talk around feelings and you know, understanding, 123 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 2: you know, when girls are struggling or they're upset. But 124 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,480 Speaker 2: for boys, it's like you'll be right, You're okay, like 125 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:43,600 Speaker 2: tough enoup. So there is definitely those differences in parenting, 126 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 2: and I think this is why boys really struggle with 127 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 2: being able to talk about their feelings. And I counsel 128 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 2: a lot of men too, and yeah, that's something that 129 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 2: they also talk a lot about. You know, girls often 130 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:56,279 Speaker 2: have friends where they can cry to and you know, 131 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 2: and have their feelings validated, and men don't have anyone 132 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 2: that they can do that too, and when they do 133 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 2: try and reach out, they kind of shut down, like, you'll. 134 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:07,360 Speaker 1: Be right, Yeah, I think it's I mean, I hope 135 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: it's getting better. We're definitely talking about that more. But yeah, 136 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:15,239 Speaker 1: And it's interesting because I don't think anybody's setting out 137 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 1: to fuck up their kids, right, but the reality is that, 138 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I've written this post on my Instagram, 139 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 1: my current, but it's something like, when I was young, 140 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 1: I thought that grown ups had their shit together, they 141 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 1: understood everything, they knew everything, Da da da da da. 142 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 1: They basically had it all together. And then the second 143 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: part is my hypothesis has since been amended, right. And 144 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 1: it's funny because when you're little, well, when I was little, 145 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 1: I'd look up to my mum and dad like they 146 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 1: were perfect, They had all their shit together, they knew everything. 147 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: Dad was the smartest guy, Mum was the best mum, 148 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: every you know, whatever. And then you grow up and 149 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 1: you see, you know, the curtain gets pulled back a 150 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 1: little bit and you go, oh, no, they're just they're 151 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 1: fucked up as well. Like, it's not like everyone's got 152 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 1: fucking issues. Mum and dad are just as fucked up 153 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 1: as their kids, if not more fucked up. So you've 154 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 1: kind of got you know, sometimes not all parents, of course, 155 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 1: but you've got this person who's perhaps themselves, you know, 156 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: mentally and or emotionally struggling, which is part of the 157 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 1: human experience, and they can't even really help themselves sometimes 158 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: because understandably there's stuff going on. And then so it's 159 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 1: very hard to be you know, Superman or super Dad 160 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 1: when you're trying to fix yourself in inverted commas. 161 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 2: Definitely, And I think this is actually a good thing because, 162 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 2: you know, so I've got a post on my Instagram 163 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 2: and it's like the candy Hearts, and if you've seen 164 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 2: that by Tommy Siegel, I think it is. And it's 165 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 2: like one like the mom candy Heart's like I will 166 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 2: not mess up my child, and the other one that 167 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:56,080 Speaker 2: other parents like in the same way my parents mess 168 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 2: me up, and then the little child one. It's like 169 00:08:58,160 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 2: a whole new kind of fucked up. And I think 170 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 2: that that really relates to the reality, which is all 171 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:06,320 Speaker 2: children have childhood conditioning. Like, like you said, we're all 172 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 2: fucked up. You know, this is what's going to happen, like, 173 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 2: this is the human conditioning. But what's I think what's 174 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:14,319 Speaker 2: really good to know is that it's actually good that 175 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 2: children see us as human because what it does, So 176 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 2: what happens in the previous generation, what's happened is that 177 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 2: children have grown up with parents who try and be 178 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 2: robotic and pretend to be perfect, right because they think 179 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:26,719 Speaker 2: that they're actually protecting their kids. So children grow up 180 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 2: and now they're adults and they're like, no, Mum was perfect. 181 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 2: Dad was okay, it must have been me. It's because 182 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 2: I was too much. It was because I was too sensitive, 183 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 2: it was because I was too annoying, versus a child 184 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 2: that grows up where they're like, no, Dad really struggled 185 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:41,839 Speaker 2: with anger, and Mum, you know, was stressed. And when 186 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 2: they actually have parents who admit to their own humanness, 187 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 2: I guess in their own limitations, they're able to separate 188 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 2: that and so then they realize, Okay, that's their stuff, 189 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 2: what's mine? Yep? And I think that's what we really 190 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 2: need to understand more of, and in fact, we need 191 00:09:57,160 --> 00:09:58,959 Speaker 2: to stop trying to be perfect in front of children, 192 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 2: because they grow up thinking it's them problem. Then I 193 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 2: was just having feelings because they saw their parents manage 194 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 2: all the things with zero reaction. 195 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 1: What about the idea dr Sam of you know, let's 196 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:15,080 Speaker 1: say I'm a dad and I fuck up. You know, 197 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 1: nothing horrendous, but I do you know, it's not my 198 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:22,079 Speaker 1: finest hour as a parent, and I apologize to my children. 199 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: Is that a good idea? Parents apologizing to their children. 200 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 2: Oh, it's so good. That's a rupture and repair. So 201 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:31,320 Speaker 2: every relationship has ruptures, and like I said, the previous 202 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 2: generation ignored that and denied that, like they just didn't 203 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 2: talk about it right or they were like no, I'm fine, 204 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 2: and they're like body languages saying that they're not. And 205 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:42,199 Speaker 2: so when we when we repair a rupture, we're first 206 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 2: acknowledging that there is a rupture. So children actually go, 207 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 2: I'm sensing this right, you know, like there was something 208 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 2: here that's disconnected us. And then a parent's owning their stuff, 209 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 2: they're like, it wasn't you know you like, this is 210 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 2: my stuff. I was stressed, so I was this and 211 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 2: then it's like, well, what do we need to do 212 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 2: to reconnect? And that's amazing. It's actually showing children that 213 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 2: there is a way to come back from when we, 214 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 2: you know, have moments like that where we regret what 215 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 2: we've done, we've said things we don't mean, and it 216 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:08,840 Speaker 2: gives them a bit of a blueprint, you know, that 217 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 2: they can do that too, and then they won't going 218 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 2: to the spiral of shame. 219 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 1: That's so good, so smart. I mean, it's kind of obvious, 220 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 1: but we don't talk about it that much, like, yeah, 221 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:20,560 Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, I'm not hanging around observing 222 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 1: parents doing a whole lot of parenting too much. But 223 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:25,680 Speaker 1: you see a lot of it anecdotally. I mean every morning, 224 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 1: I'm in the cafe doing work and drinking coffee, and 225 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 1: I get to the cafe early, and I see just 226 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 1: lots of mums and dads and kids. And I'm not judging, 227 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 1: but you just it's like, oh, you know, I live 228 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:39,440 Speaker 1: on a main street as well, and I just got 229 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 1: back from a walk now just a little. I just 230 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:43,560 Speaker 1: walked to one end and the other because it's undercover 231 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 1: and it's super hot here. But I'm constantly seeing parents 232 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 1: doing parenting and you know, some of it's brilliant, some 233 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 1: of it's you know, maybe not so brilliant, but I think, 234 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: and I'm not an expert at anything, but I'm definitely 235 00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:59,440 Speaker 1: not at parenting. But I wonder if I was a parent, 236 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: if I would have the self awareness and courage and 237 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 1: humility to go, hey, this just happened. That was all me. 238 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 1: That's my fault, and you didn't do anything that was 239 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 1: one hundred percent of me. So I'm sorry and moving forward, 240 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 1: I'm going to do my very best not to do 241 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:17,840 Speaker 1: that again. Are you okay? Like that seems to me 242 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 1: like a good idea. 243 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:22,320 Speaker 2: Definitely because they feel like it. Like I said, it 244 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 2: really models to them that you're taking own a ship firstly, 245 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 2: but also that you've noticed that there is a disconnect 246 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:30,319 Speaker 2: and you're kind of making amends. But then I think 247 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:32,960 Speaker 2: it's that's the immediate thing right where we're repairing. But 248 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 2: I think also taking responsibility. It looks like this is 249 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 2: a recurring thing for me, I'm stressed. What do I 250 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 2: need to do to take that stress off in my 251 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 2: life as a parent? Right So, being able to look 252 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 2: at the patterns of going this is like what do 253 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 2: I need? And I think a lot of parents don't 254 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:47,959 Speaker 2: do that. They just feel like they need to keep 255 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 2: sacrificing their needs and go, go, go, And that's where 256 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 2: that shame comes. And so when they have those moments, 257 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 2: they just like I should know better. I need to 258 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 2: go to a parenting class. No, you don't. You actually 259 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:00,439 Speaker 2: need to have space to get your needs met. Really 260 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 2: take off the loan. A lot of the time parents 261 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 2: know what they need to do, it's just they're overloaded, 262 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 2: they're overwhelmed, they're tired, they're hungry. 263 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 1: Did you see that that research that came out of 264 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: unis A last year? It was about this time. I've 265 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 1: spoken about this a few times. I apologize, but it's 266 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:23,080 Speaker 1: relevant to this conversation where they compared exercise as a 267 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 1: treatment for anxiety with it was either anxiety or depressional. 268 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:33,960 Speaker 1: Both might have been both, but they used exercise as 269 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 1: a treatment protocol compared with medication. And of course, you 270 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: know what I'm going to say. So the exercise, the output, 271 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: the exercise outperformed, you know, the medication. And I'm thinking about, 272 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 1: you know, like with children, how many children are medicated 273 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 1: now for fucking everything? Right, I'm wondering, you know, So 274 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:57,320 Speaker 1: you said the core of a lot of what you 275 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 1: deal with with kids is anxiety, which manifests in a 276 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 1: range of ways and all the first cousins of anxiety. 277 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 1: I guess that if you know, so what a medication 278 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:14,679 Speaker 1: does changes you know, brain chemistry, right, what does play 279 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 1: do changes brain chemistry? Like it's physiologically altering the child 280 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 1: without the potential side effects of a drug. 281 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 2: Oh exactly. And I think even when you were saying 282 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 2: actso plays that because it brings us into the present moment, 283 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 2: and like you said, it's rewiring our brain. But also exercise, 284 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 2: and I think that that's a huge tool for parents 285 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 2: that we just don't talk about enough, especially for parents. 286 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 2: I mean, whether you've got anxiety or not, becoming a 287 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 2: parent is very anxiety provoking. You're so worried about messing 288 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 2: up your child. But if you didn't have anxiety, you know, 289 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 2: you come away with having some anxiety about how you 290 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 2: are showing up as a parent. So I think exercise 291 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 2: is such an important way as stress relief. But also, 292 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 2: like you said, I mean it performs better than antidepressants 293 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 2: and anti anxiety medication. It's just not I don't think 294 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 2: we talk about that as much as we should. 295 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 1: I would imagine also that like play with kids that 296 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: requires them to focus on something, it means now they're 297 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: not focusing on something negative or now they're not distracted 298 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 1: with something negative, like this requires your attention, you know. 299 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 1: It's like there's this old kind of kind of what 300 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 1: is it. It's like a puzzle. It's like, so, Sam, 301 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 1: I'm going to give you a million dollars if you 302 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: don't think about the number seven for the next thirty seconds, right, Yeah, 303 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 1: And it's like, oh fuck, I don't think. Oh I 304 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 1: just thought. I don't think about them. I just thought 305 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 1: about it. Right, And so the answer, the answer to 306 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 1: that puzzle is not to try to think about to 307 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 1: not try to think about the number seven. It's to 308 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 1: think about a cheeseburger. Like you just focus on something 309 00:15:55,800 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: different rather than try to not focus on a thing. Yes, 310 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 1: you know, when I know when I'm feeling if which 311 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 1: is not often, but if I'm sitting there and I 312 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 1: start to feel a bit, I start to go down 313 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 1: an emotional end or psychological rabbit hole that's not positive, 314 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 1: I'm like, ah fuck. If I get up and I 315 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 1: go and do something like that requires my energy and 316 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 1: my attention and my focus and my brain to be 317 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 1: drawn to a particular task or whatever. Now I'm out 318 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: of that thing, Like now I'm moving my body. I 319 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 1: still haven't necessarily solved a problem, but I've just stopped 320 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 1: ruminating by giving my attention to something healthier. 321 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is why I think play is such 322 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 2: a good talk for parents. And you know, we talked 323 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 2: about that repair. You know, for parents, they spend a 324 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 2: lot of time in their mind in the past, so 325 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 2: ruminating over past mistakes, how they handle things, how they 326 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 2: wish they could have done it better, or in the future, 327 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 2: which is all the worries of how maybe they've messed 328 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:55,960 Speaker 2: up their child or all these things that could go wrong. 329 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 2: And so when a child wants to play with you, 330 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 2: that's an invitation to be in the present moment you 331 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 2: are like and it's really hard to by the way, 332 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:04,879 Speaker 2: That's why a lot of parents are like I bought 333 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 2: or you know, thinking about all the things that they 334 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 2: need to do. But to actually be present with the 335 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 2: child is really you being in that moment. And I 336 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:13,680 Speaker 2: think a lot of the times we think of mindfulness 337 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:17,359 Speaker 2: as just quiet and calmness and yoga. No, mindfulness is 338 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:21,399 Speaker 2: also not running yourself down, not judging yourself, not thinking 339 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 2: of West Kate scenarios, and actually being able to enjoy 340 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:26,920 Speaker 2: to be present, enjoy that moment for what it is, 341 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 2: and be fully there. And I think that's why I play. 342 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 2: It can be really triggering for parents, but I think 343 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:33,399 Speaker 2: it also can be really healing. 344 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:37,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, I just want to circle back a little bit 345 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: to what we were talking about the impact that we 346 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:42,919 Speaker 1: have on our kids. You know, when we you know, 347 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:45,440 Speaker 1: we have our own shit, right, we have our own issues. 348 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: I literally talk to people about issues and behavior and 349 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:51,919 Speaker 1: psychology for a living, and I've still got all my 350 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 1: own bullshit, right, Like knowing stuff doesn't necessarily fix you, 351 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 1: does it. 352 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 2: It's like it doesn't unfortunately, Yeah, Like. 353 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:00,879 Speaker 1: Do I still have self esteem issues a little bit? 354 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 1: Do I still overthink a little bit? Do I still 355 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:07,159 Speaker 1: feel like a fraud a little bit? You know? It's like, so, 356 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:10,919 Speaker 1: you know, there's knowing something and then there's you know, 357 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 1: benefiting from that or yeah, you know, being human for sure. 358 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:18,679 Speaker 1: But I'm thinking, you know, because we all have our 359 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 1: own bullshit, which we'll call, you know, psychological or emotional 360 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:27,119 Speaker 1: or behavioral issues. And you know, let's say I've got 361 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 1: a self limiting belief that's somewhat irrational, and I believe 362 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:34,679 Speaker 1: A B and C, A B and C that's my 363 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:38,880 Speaker 1: irrational self limiting doesn't make sense, fucking up my own 364 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 1: life belief Now, if I'm always living in a version 365 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 1: of that self limiting paradigm, and I'm talking about that, 366 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 1: and I'm expressing that my kids are witnessing that, there's 367 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:54,119 Speaker 1: a fair chance that's going to become their reality as well, 368 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 1: I'm going to pass my I guess my long winded 369 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 1: point is, I'm going to pass on my own bullshit 370 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 1: to my kids unless I become more aware around them. 371 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 2: Definitely, because if you think about it, if you're trying 372 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 2: to be a perfect parent, then you will expect a 373 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 2: perfect child. So you're right, and also knowing that we 374 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 2: all have our own demons, but figuring out a way 375 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 2: to continue to move towards your values and live in 376 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 2: the way that you want amongst that so I think, Oh, 377 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:25,639 Speaker 2: psychology professor gave me this just best analogy. While I 378 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:28,120 Speaker 2: was doing my PhD and I was getting to the end, 379 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 2: and I was saying, to have done all this work, 380 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:32,639 Speaker 2: like internally, like I've going to therapy and you know, 381 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 2: learn all the things, and yet I feel like it's 382 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 2: getting harder the closer I get to this endpoint, and 383 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:39,200 Speaker 2: all is like you said, limiting beliefs came out and 384 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 2: I'm getting in my own way and I'm like, what 385 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 2: else can I do? I feel like I've overthought this 386 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 2: so much. And she was like, well, we've all got 387 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 2: our own demons, and that's what you go to therapy for. 388 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 2: You you solve one demon, another one pops up, you 389 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:51,160 Speaker 2: se one like this is just a never ending process. 390 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:53,360 Speaker 2: But what you kind of need to learn is learn 391 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 2: how to coach yourself, lead yourself where you can get 392 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 2: your demon, put it on the couch next to you 393 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:00,080 Speaker 2: and say you chill here. I'm going to go so 394 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:02,040 Speaker 2: like you're out of my way, chill here, I'm going 395 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:04,880 Speaker 2: to keep doing the thing. And that's a really important 396 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 2: skill to have to show children where yes, these things 397 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:08,679 Speaker 2: can be running our head and we can have these 398 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:11,159 Speaker 2: limiting beliefs, but how do we get out of our 399 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:13,639 Speaker 2: own way and how do we take responsibility for our lives? 400 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:15,680 Speaker 2: And the more that they see us do that, which 401 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 2: has been great with our lives, taking courage right, talking 402 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:21,720 Speaker 2: about our values and moving towards that and really imperfect ways, 403 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:23,879 Speaker 2: the more they learn how to do that rather than 404 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:25,399 Speaker 2: going and thoither all or nothing? And a lot of 405 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:27,680 Speaker 2: people do that. I need to solve all my ademons 406 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 2: before I can do the thing. I need to have 407 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 2: perfect conditions before I can do the thing, all the 408 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:34,679 Speaker 2: reasons why they can't do it, versus going I just 409 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:36,160 Speaker 2: need to learn how to get out of my own way. 410 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, it makes complete sense. I reckon, if I was 411 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 1: a dad, there's every chance my kid or kids would 412 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 1: have had food issues because I had food issues, you know, 413 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 1: And I thinking I've thought about that. I'm like, wow, 414 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,440 Speaker 1: like imagine because I was more with the ib skid 415 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: all this stuff, you know, fat kid eating issues and 416 00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 1: like eating lots of food I didn't need, then hating 417 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:01,679 Speaker 1: my body and hating my self, and then you know, 418 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:06,159 Speaker 1: becoming fucking a maniac about exercise. And you know, I 419 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:09,640 Speaker 1: wonder if and it took me, you know, I mean 420 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 1: I owned multiple gym sam and I was still doing 421 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:14,760 Speaker 1: dumb shit to my own body like I was an 422 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 1: ext size scientist. I'm working with the lead athletes, I 423 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 1: own multiple gyms. I'm like well known, I'm all this shit, 424 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:24,439 Speaker 1: and I'm still shoving food in my face when no 425 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:28,359 Speaker 1: one's looking at Not these days, but for a long time, 426 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 1: you know, maybe till I was in my mid thirties, 427 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:34,359 Speaker 1: when I was well and truly educated and informed, but 428 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:36,119 Speaker 1: still fucking out of control. 429 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:38,920 Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, and it's a journey, right, And even 430 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 2: if you that's the problem, I think with a lot 431 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 2: of these things, because parents are so worried about transferring 432 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,880 Speaker 2: that onto their child, they will see it. So, for example, 433 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:49,359 Speaker 2: you'd have a child, and then your child might I 434 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:51,679 Speaker 2: don't know, have a preference for one food, or you 435 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 2: start to see some kind of contenting things and you'll go, wow, 436 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,960 Speaker 2: I've done it. It's protected, and you'll try and fix 437 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 2: it and make it perfect. And so if the issues 438 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,440 Speaker 2: weren't already there, they will be there because that's a 439 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:04,919 Speaker 2: lens that you have, right, which is I'm causing this, 440 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 2: And every time your child has anything to do with food, 441 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:11,919 Speaker 2: you're inner story is I've caused this, I'm projecting I 442 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:15,639 Speaker 2: haven't got my shit together, versus going in some ways, 443 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 2: we actually all have issues, you know, with our body 444 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,879 Speaker 2: image in some ways, so your child's not going to 445 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 2: be immune from that. You're still struggling with that. You 446 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 2: can use that experience as empathy in going, I don't 447 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:28,919 Speaker 2: need to fix this for my child, but I can 448 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:31,040 Speaker 2: share my own journey. I can share that I also 449 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:33,199 Speaker 2: haven't figured it out and I'm still learning things, and 450 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 2: I'm experimenting with what works for my body, and I 451 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:37,639 Speaker 2: fall off the track and then I get back on it. 452 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 2: And that's a very compassionate, curious way to approach that 453 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 2: versus that shame based which is I need to get 454 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:47,639 Speaker 2: it right. I don't want to stuff up my child, 455 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 2: so I think they should. Yeah, a lot of parents 456 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 2: can really look at it into different ways, which is, 457 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 2: I don't want to project versus this can actually give 458 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:56,359 Speaker 2: me empathy. So if I've got anxiety, my child's got it, 459 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,199 Speaker 2: Or if I've got body issusanes and my child's got it, 460 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:00,879 Speaker 2: I'm going to have this empathy knowing I know what 461 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 2: it's like to have this struggle when it's not going 462 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:05,199 Speaker 2: to be just fixed straight away. So let's be more 463 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 2: kind to ourselves while we do that work. 464 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 1: Is it tough for you? I was thinking about this 465 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 1: last time we spoke, but I forgot to ask, like, 466 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 1: is it tough for you? In twenty twenty four, twenty five, 467 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:26,160 Speaker 1: almost twenty five? When you've got to I mean, you've 468 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 1: you've got to be politically correct of course you got 469 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 1: to be enlightened and all of these things, which I'm 470 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:36,160 Speaker 1: on board. But boys and girls aren't the same biologically 471 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:42,120 Speaker 1: and sociologically. And we know that girls mature, generally speaking, quicker, 472 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 1: their brains develop quicker, you know, their prefrontal cortex develops 473 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 1: or is kind of set earlier than men. And you 474 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 1: know there are these how do you navigate and negotiate 475 00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 1: these differences without getting in trouble? Like because I feel 476 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:04,920 Speaker 1: like it's you know, you can't go, oh, boys are 477 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 1: this and girls are that. I feel like that's a 478 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 1: slippery slope. 479 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,159 Speaker 2: It very much is. And I think you know, everyone's 480 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,440 Speaker 2: like ready to like balance me, like what you said. 481 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 2: But I think to even go more than that, which 482 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 2: is even within girls, everyone's got different experiences. Every girl's different, 483 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 2: and same with boys. So I think, you know, we 484 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 2: need to just just know that every human is unique 485 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 2: based on their experiences and what's going on for them 486 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 2: and their contents and their environment. And I yeah, the 487 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 2: more that we can use research to infem ust but 488 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 2: actually really connect with the child in front of us 489 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 2: and what they're showing us, I think that's probably the 490 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:37,480 Speaker 2: best way to go. 491 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 1: But I mean we know we're not going to see 492 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:43,680 Speaker 1: girls out on you know, preppies and grade ones out 493 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 1: on the playground wrestling the girls just you know, wrestling 494 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 1: and you know, maybe some but yeah, I guess I 495 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 1: get I don't what I'm asking. I just feel like 496 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 1: that's I would struggle with that. I just think, oh, 497 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 1: I'd get myself in trouble because I'd probably say something 498 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 1: that people go oh, oh so hard these days. 499 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 2: And the thing is, really, there's not anything you can 500 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 2: say that won't get someone to have an opinion about it, right, 501 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:09,879 Speaker 2: You say something and everyone's like, well, it could be 502 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,159 Speaker 2: the other way, Like there's always going to be different 503 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 2: in opinions. So I think, yeah, it's so important to 504 00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:15,240 Speaker 2: keep that in mind too. 505 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 1: You spoke before about you having a therapist for a 506 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:24,960 Speaker 1: period of time and you're doing therapy. What does that feel? 507 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,159 Speaker 1: Free to answer and not answer this or open the 508 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 1: door as wide or as narrow as you want, but 509 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,199 Speaker 1: can you share with us what were some of the 510 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:38,359 Speaker 1: stuff without revealing you know you deep as darkest, But like, 511 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,439 Speaker 1: I love it when somebody like you who is you know, 512 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 1: a therapist who's got a doctorate, who's smart, who works 513 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:46,159 Speaker 1: with people you go. Yeah, by the way, I'm a 514 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 1: little bit fucked up myself, Like what is right? You know, 515 00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 1: I'm still dealing with shit because I'm human, you know, Yes, 516 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:54,160 Speaker 1: so I've. 517 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:57,640 Speaker 2: Had different experiences, So what fairs brought me to therapy? 518 00:25:57,960 --> 00:25:59,439 Speaker 2: Going to be honest, I had to do it to 519 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 2: become a I should play therapist, so we have to 520 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:04,359 Speaker 2: undertake it was like fifty hours of personal therapy. So 521 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:06,479 Speaker 2: I was in therapy for one hour a week for 522 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 2: about a year. And because it's not saying its force, 523 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 2: but because there was obviously a reason to it, I 524 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:13,919 Speaker 2: was like, Okay, I'm going to really be open to 525 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,399 Speaker 2: this experience, do do the inner child work that I 526 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:20,119 Speaker 2: need to. And that was great. But what was really 527 00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:22,719 Speaker 2: good is when I came to therapy by myself, and 528 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,879 Speaker 2: that's when I became a mum, and I was like, 529 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 2: let me, you know, as my asmums do, let me 530 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 2: try and deal with my own my own shit. I 531 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 2: said that I don't protected onto my child, and this 532 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 2: is what's coming up for me. And you know, it 533 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 2: did take me a few goes to find the right 534 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,720 Speaker 2: kind of therapist and one that was really honest. You know, 535 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 2: I didn't want a therapist that would just tell me 536 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:46,200 Speaker 2: what I want to hear. I'm like, please, like, call 537 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:47,919 Speaker 2: me out of my blind spots here, What am I missing? 538 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 2: What am I So? I think it was really good 539 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 2: to have that experience as I entered parenthood. But then 540 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 2: I used it for a while when I felt like 541 00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:58,840 Speaker 2: I needed it to talk things through or to again 542 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:01,919 Speaker 2: get out of my own head a bit and about 543 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 2: stuff back. And what was awesome about it was I 544 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 2: had a therapist that was really good at actually uncovering 545 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:11,240 Speaker 2: my again really connection to the child, but uncovering my 546 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,600 Speaker 2: unmet needs you know as a child, or my experiences 547 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 2: as a child and how that's impacting me as an adult. 548 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,960 Speaker 2: And so it gave me this deeper understanding of myself. 549 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 2: But it also showed me where I needed to take 550 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 2: more responsibility for my life. And I think that's really 551 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:27,199 Speaker 2: the key to it. I think we can come to 552 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,080 Speaker 2: therapy to maybe get validated or to try and talk 553 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:32,720 Speaker 2: about you know, what horrible situation you know other people 554 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 2: are aware in and how stressful all the external stuff is. 555 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:37,720 Speaker 2: But if you come to therapy with this, I really 556 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,160 Speaker 2: want to understand more of myself, like the good, the bad, 557 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,200 Speaker 2: the all the parts and then where I can actually 558 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 2: make changes. That's the key to it, and that's what 559 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,880 Speaker 2: I did. I think more so in the self initiated, 560 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,439 Speaker 2: you know, being a parent. Part of the therapy is 561 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:54,879 Speaker 2: when I was so committed in between the sessions to 562 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:56,920 Speaker 2: do the work and to come back with this is what, 563 00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 2: this is, what didn't this is what I was trialing, 564 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 2: and then continue to work from there, and so I 565 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:05,440 Speaker 2: really do believe. Again, so people come to therapy and 566 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 2: they think therapists have the answers. I didn't come to 567 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:09,480 Speaker 2: therapy like that. I came to therapy going I know 568 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 2: that this is my life. I'm the expect in my life, 569 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 2: and they're here to maybe be a mirror to show 570 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 2: me things, to help me reflect onto things. But I 571 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 2: have to do the work outside therapy and nothing's going 572 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:18,920 Speaker 2: to change. 573 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 1: I feel like therapists, personal trainers, exercise physiologists, life coaches. 574 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 1: I don't really like putting them in that. But you know, 575 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:36,960 Speaker 1: there's a whole group of people that, not so much 576 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,560 Speaker 1: doctors because it's generally in and out for twelve minutes 577 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 1: or something, but people who work with people one on 578 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 1: one for an hour or forty five minutes on a 579 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 1: regular basis. It's like, you know, there are great therapists 580 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 1: and terrible ones. There are great trainers and terrible ones. 581 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 1: There are great dietitians and terrible ones, and good bricklayers 582 00:28:56,320 --> 00:29:02,120 Speaker 1: and bad ones. You know, it's like that. You know, 583 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 1: my background is owning gyms right and PT centers specifically, 584 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:11,240 Speaker 1: and like what I what I would have thought going 585 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:15,080 Speaker 1: into that, which is like, well, the most qualified, the 586 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 1: most knowledgeable, the most skilled, they will be the most successful, 587 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 1: And it just was almost never the case. I'm like, oh, like, 588 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 1: some of my trainers had the most basic quality. I 589 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 1: mean literally I had everything from PhD qualified people down 590 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 1: to certificate three and four right and everyone in between. 591 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 1: But probably at least half my trainers were a fitness 592 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:45,080 Speaker 1: industry qualified kind of fundamental quals right three and four 593 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 1: cert but without doubt the probably the best five trainers 594 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 1: I had, and I could qualify best. But just in 595 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 1: terms of all round performance, quiet retention didn't injure people. 596 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,480 Speaker 1: People may good progress, they got good results, they loved 597 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 1: the experience, they said positive things. These particular trainers had 598 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:12,720 Speaker 1: very very little drop off. They were all just awesome humans, 599 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 1: Like they were all just funny, good people, good personalities. 600 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:24,160 Speaker 1: They cared. I mean, it's so basic, right, And they 601 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 1: were just gave a fuck about the people they worked with, 602 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 1: and they were consistent and they were good. And you know, 603 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 1: I've said this. I don't think I said this to you, 604 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 1: but I've said this a bunch of times over the years. 605 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 1: But in all the years that I worked as a 606 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 1: trainer and as a gym owner and as a high 607 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 1: performance coach with athletes and teams and all those things, 608 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,760 Speaker 1: in all those years, I got asked once what my 609 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:50,880 Speaker 1: qualification was? Once, Wow, what is your qualification? And it 610 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 1: was only a lady who was She only wanted to know, 611 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 1: not because she was checking up on me or doubting me, 612 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,720 Speaker 1: but she wanted to do what I did. She's like, 613 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 1: you know, and so not that we shouldn't be qualified 614 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,160 Speaker 1: or knowledgeable or skilled. Of course, we're not saying that 615 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 1: all of those things are you know, imperative. But like 616 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,760 Speaker 1: if you've got a PhD in psychology, but you sit 617 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 1: down with people and they don't enjoy being around you, 618 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:16,600 Speaker 1: well good luck. 619 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 2: Oh exactly if you're like judging them and you're like 620 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,480 Speaker 2: criticizing them in your mind, and you know, you're you're 621 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 2: you know, not really present with them, and you're assessing 622 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 2: them in a way that doesn't align right with what 623 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 2: they're actually saying and what they're trying to in how 624 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 2: they're trying to connect with you. Then you're right, you're 625 00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 2: not gonna You're not going to be someone that they'll 626 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 2: want to come back to. And I think it's a 627 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 2: really good point of what you said, like just generally 628 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 2: caring about their lives and wanting to support them, and 629 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 2: you've even see that in your industry. I think it 630 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 2: then just shows how relatable it is, right. 631 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 1: Like this is, this is so fundamental. It seems like, oh, 632 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:54,120 Speaker 1: that couldn't possibly work. I used to say too, And 633 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,240 Speaker 1: I would say to any trainer listening, any professional listening, 634 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:02,440 Speaker 1: especially you know people who do what you and I do, right, 635 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,520 Speaker 1: which is like one on one stuff, like apart from 636 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 1: all the other factors and variables, do they want to 637 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 1: come back? Like? Do they like especially when you're a 638 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 1: trainer and you see someone three times a week? Right? 639 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 2: Yeah? 640 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,800 Speaker 1: I trained one lady who definitely didn't need me to 641 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 1: train her after the first year, but I trained her 642 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:25,280 Speaker 1: sixteen years, like sixteen years, three four five days, a 643 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:29,160 Speaker 1: week right, and she didn't need me, but she just would. 644 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 1: She could afford it. She was wealthy, so it wasn't 645 00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 1: an issue. She went, I know I could train by myself, 646 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 1: but I don't want to. I just get better results. 647 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 1: I enjoy it more. I'm more consistent for these reasons. 648 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 1: And if you will train me I want, I'm like great. 649 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:47,000 Speaker 1: And you know I ask bosses Sam when I go 650 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 1: and I do corporate stuff or I'm consulting, or I'm speaking, 651 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,719 Speaker 1: or I'm kind of problem solving or doing team building 652 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 1: stuff or you know, cultural or communication stuff, I ask 653 00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:00,440 Speaker 1: the boss him or her, whoever that is. I go, 654 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 1: do your staff like being here? Is this a place 655 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,640 Speaker 1: that they want to come to and that they don't 656 00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,440 Speaker 1: even think about this? I go, is this an environment 657 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 1: and a culture that your people get out of bed 658 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,480 Speaker 1: and look forward to coming to this place? And if 659 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,600 Speaker 1: the answer to that is no, that's where you need 660 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:21,040 Speaker 1: to start. 661 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:23,520 Speaker 2: Definitely. That's such an important question that I think a 662 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:25,800 Speaker 2: lot of leaders would not ask. And I mean for you, though, 663 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 2: do you think the reason why you've been so successful, 664 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:31,720 Speaker 2: especially in that industry, is because you've had your own 665 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,040 Speaker 2: personal journey with exercise? 666 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 1: I think yes, I think like I have a hundred 667 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 1: percent yeah. And so when I talk about whatever obesity 668 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 1: or body dysmorphia or fucking self loathing or I'm not 669 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:51,520 Speaker 1: talking from a research perspective. I'm talking about experientially. I go, 670 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:55,280 Speaker 1: I know, I know what it's like to hate how 671 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,080 Speaker 1: you look. I know what it's like to get on 672 00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,640 Speaker 1: the scales and be depressed. I know what it's like 673 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,640 Speaker 1: to look in the mirror and feel sad. I know 674 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:04,840 Speaker 1: what it's like to be picked last for a team 675 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:08,839 Speaker 1: because you're fat. I know, I know, right, And there's 676 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,719 Speaker 1: no self pity in this. But that's my experience. And 677 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:15,120 Speaker 1: so you know, I have a soft soft spot for 678 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:16,799 Speaker 1: people who struggle with all of. 679 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:18,880 Speaker 2: It, which is what you see them, right, like you 680 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 2: actually see them because imagine if you didn't have that, 681 00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:24,440 Speaker 2: you could see how you could have a trainer, right 682 00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,520 Speaker 2: that's never had that struggle. And they may again not intentionally, 683 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:31,040 Speaker 2: but be like, it's not that hard, like and it's 684 00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:33,359 Speaker 2: and when they say it's different because it's that way 685 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:35,759 Speaker 2: you've always had that, But knowing your struggles, you're like, no, 686 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 2: this is what the way that you would kind of 687 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,080 Speaker 2: speak that out would be so different. 688 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, it just dawned on me as you were talking. 689 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:48,400 Speaker 1: It's like, I, this is going to sound bad, but 690 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:52,320 Speaker 1: it's like people that don't have great genetics that really 691 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,560 Speaker 1: struggle to be in shape that you know, it's like 692 00:34:55,719 --> 00:35:01,520 Speaker 1: they're my people. It's like that is audious people right now. 693 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:06,480 Speaker 1: I've worked with lots of elite athletes, national international athletes, Olympians, 694 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:08,279 Speaker 1: all that, and I can work with them, and I'm 695 00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:12,520 Speaker 1: quite a good conditioning coach and all of that, XI scientists, 696 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,440 Speaker 1: but I can do all that, but I kind of 697 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:19,960 Speaker 1: feel in that environment or I have a capacity to 698 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,920 Speaker 1: feel like I don't belong because I was not a 699 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,480 Speaker 1: good athlete. I was not gifted genetically, I didn't have 700 00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,400 Speaker 1: great sporting talent. And even though I can do that 701 00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:31,600 Speaker 1: job and I can be a good coach and I 702 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:34,200 Speaker 1: can help people get better in that environment as well, 703 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,040 Speaker 1: but it's funny when I'm back talking to someone who 704 00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:40,120 Speaker 1: just struggles with self esteem and self worth and body 705 00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:44,400 Speaker 1: image and not very great genetics, and you know, I'm like, yeah, 706 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:46,880 Speaker 1: I'm in my natural habitat. This is where I belong. 707 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:48,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, You're like, you speak my language. 708 00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:51,880 Speaker 1: I'm like I get it. I get it, you know, 709 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:55,080 Speaker 1: I just I just want to give them a you know, 710 00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:59,160 Speaker 1: if not a literal hugger, you know, a virtual hug. 711 00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:05,360 Speaker 1: So so if we're like from a just back quickly 712 00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:07,640 Speaker 1: to the parenting thing and the kids thing. It's like, 713 00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:12,160 Speaker 1: is there this is a very broad question, But how 714 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,920 Speaker 1: do I know if I'm doing a good job? Like 715 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,680 Speaker 1: what's the data telling me? And it's you know, not 716 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:21,720 Speaker 1: not to be preoccupied with that, but it's like, well, clearly, 717 00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 1: if I'm a parent, I want to be a good parent. 718 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:27,440 Speaker 1: If I'm a good parent, what's happening? How do I know? 719 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:31,080 Speaker 1: And I guess conversely, not if I'm a shit parent, 720 00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:35,680 Speaker 1: but if I need to maybe work on stuff, you know, 721 00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:36,879 Speaker 1: how do I know. 722 00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:39,680 Speaker 2: What you define is good? 723 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,640 Speaker 1: Well, I don't know. You I mean, like, do we 724 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:49,239 Speaker 1: need to like do we need to think about I mean, 725 00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:51,319 Speaker 1: we don't want to overthink shit because we don't want 726 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 1: to complicate shit. But at the same time, want it 727 00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:58,400 Speaker 1: or not, like it or not. You're shaping this human 728 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:04,560 Speaker 1: like this you you're programming and training this human. And 729 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:08,120 Speaker 1: you're training this little human when they are the most 730 00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:12,880 Speaker 1: malleable and they are becoming a version of you, like 731 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:20,920 Speaker 1: it or not. Yeah, yeah, so how do I Yeah, this. 732 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,000 Speaker 2: Is hard to spit though. If becauds, you're right, you know, 733 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:25,000 Speaker 2: the parent in ch our relationship. I mean they say 734 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:28,640 Speaker 2: it's one of the most influential obviously relationship, right, it's 735 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:31,719 Speaker 2: setting the foundations for all the other relationships. The attachment, 736 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:34,439 Speaker 2: it's so so important. But at the same time, it's 737 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,040 Speaker 2: not the only input in their lives. You know, children 738 00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,600 Speaker 2: go to school, right, They're getting influenced by other people, 739 00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:44,120 Speaker 2: other teachers, other kids. So I think when we define 740 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,520 Speaker 2: good parenting, what we have to really kind of get 741 00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:49,399 Speaker 2: to what is our definition of good Because if it's 742 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:52,200 Speaker 2: a good a good parenting is having a child that's 743 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:54,200 Speaker 2: happy all the time. Then when your child is sad, 744 00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:55,839 Speaker 2: you're going to feel like you're failing. When your child 745 00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:57,839 Speaker 2: is angry, you're gonna feel like you're failing. And so 746 00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:00,279 Speaker 2: then you're not actually being present with them what they 747 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,759 Speaker 2: need to be present with, which is actually being able 748 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:07,080 Speaker 2: to experience life fully. And so I think that, yeah, 749 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:11,160 Speaker 2: really getting to what is good versus Yeah, how do 750 00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:13,719 Speaker 2: we I guess focus on what we can which is 751 00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:15,920 Speaker 2: our relationship with our child, and what is the relationship 752 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,759 Speaker 2: it's a connection, it's the emotional connection. So I think 753 00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:20,879 Speaker 2: really being able to go back and do that inner 754 00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,160 Speaker 2: work so that you are emotionally connected to yourself and 755 00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:25,560 Speaker 2: you're getting your emotional needs met and then going how 756 00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:27,600 Speaker 2: am I showing up in this relationship with my child? 757 00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:29,600 Speaker 2: And so research you know, I always thought it was 758 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:31,400 Speaker 2: like if you most of the time, if you're you know, 759 00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:34,480 Speaker 2: responding to your child, great, then you're good. But research shows, 760 00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:38,480 Speaker 2: especially with secure attachment. So they had the Safeless Security 761 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:41,480 Speaker 2: training and in that training, evidence based program and they 762 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:44,160 Speaker 2: teach you that only three percent of the time if 763 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:46,319 Speaker 2: you're responding to your child's needs, and that is what 764 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,080 Speaker 2: you know can lead to a secure attachment. So I 765 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:51,719 Speaker 2: think it's yeah important when we talk about those emotional needs. 766 00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:55,319 Speaker 2: It's feeling seen, head validated, accepted, and understood for who 767 00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:58,000 Speaker 2: they are. And I think play provides this amazing space 768 00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:01,200 Speaker 2: for that because it's got these conditions where we can 769 00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:06,920 Speaker 2: create that therapeutic environment. But also they're not overly worrying 770 00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,560 Speaker 2: about constantly are we doing the right thing and did 771 00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:11,480 Speaker 2: we respond in the right way twenty four seven, because 772 00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:13,239 Speaker 2: that can actually cause other issues that can cause a 773 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:16,120 Speaker 2: child that's struggling with anxiety and perfectionism because everything has 774 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,959 Speaker 2: to be perfect. So I think moving away from good 775 00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:22,799 Speaker 2: versus maybe living a meaningful life, how do we help 776 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,080 Speaker 2: children actually be really connected to themselves in the world. 777 00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:27,000 Speaker 2: How do we help our children live out values? What 778 00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:30,480 Speaker 2: are our values? So I think that's probably more of 779 00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:35,239 Speaker 2: a focal point is to yeah, be more aligned and 780 00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,000 Speaker 2: being able to actually live that out with our kids. 781 00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:41,680 Speaker 1: So every morning, as I said to you before, I 782 00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:44,719 Speaker 1: go and sit in this cafe and there's a dude 783 00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:47,520 Speaker 1: who comes in. His name is James will I'll give 784 00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:49,400 Speaker 1: a shout out to James. Used to play footy for 785 00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:52,960 Speaker 1: sin Kilda. He was a gun. Anyway, it's got the 786 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,640 Speaker 1: most gorgeous little girl called Rosie who for some reason, 787 00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:01,480 Speaker 1: Rosie has taken a shine to Uncle Harps. And one 788 00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:04,840 Speaker 1: day he was just anyway, he was sitting to one side, 789 00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:07,680 Speaker 1: and she just walked over to me and put up 790 00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,640 Speaker 1: her arms and I went okay, So then she just 791 00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:12,879 Speaker 1: sat with me. Anyway, Now every time she comes in, 792 00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:17,840 Speaker 1: she sits like on my lap and I get my phone. 793 00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:19,960 Speaker 1: This is probably bad, but she sits on my lap 794 00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:23,160 Speaker 1: and so she's she's got her little arms on the table. 795 00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:24,799 Speaker 1: I've got my arms on the table. I'll get my 796 00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:30,360 Speaker 1: phone out and I will put on like a Bluey 797 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:33,359 Speaker 1: cartoon or a clip from Blueie. Right, I'm all over 798 00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:38,279 Speaker 1: it anyway, Louie. Yeah. Right. So the other day she 799 00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,160 Speaker 1: comes in and she because she knows what she wants. 800 00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,920 Speaker 1: She just wants to come and sit with me and 801 00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,640 Speaker 1: fuck around on the phone. And she'll pick up the 802 00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:49,840 Speaker 1: salt shaker and hand it to me, and then the 803 00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:52,680 Speaker 1: pepper shaker and hand it to me, and then it's 804 00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:56,480 Speaker 1: this whole thing. But I was, I was. I don't 805 00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:58,800 Speaker 1: know how old she's I shouldn't know, but I feel 806 00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,759 Speaker 1: like she's no more than eight months, so she's little, right, 807 00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:06,040 Speaker 1: But she just she gets my phone and she just 808 00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:09,360 Speaker 1: she knows how to use that phone. Yeah, she's like 809 00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:12,920 Speaker 1: finding stuff and scrolling and I mean she's not typing 810 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:17,000 Speaker 1: in things, of course, yes, but to an extent she 811 00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:21,440 Speaker 1: can navigate her way around that phone, which and I mean, 812 00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:23,880 Speaker 1: I don't want to have this, Oh, screens are killing 813 00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:26,840 Speaker 1: our kids and all that, because it's been so talked about. 814 00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:30,840 Speaker 1: But when you talk about play therapy, yeah, does that 815 00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:34,080 Speaker 1: involve that kind of play? Does that involve kids? Playing 816 00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:38,440 Speaker 1: computer games or is this not really in the context 817 00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:39,680 Speaker 1: of what you do? 818 00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:42,800 Speaker 2: So in traditional obviously play therapy, you know, we don't 819 00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:44,920 Speaker 2: have that. But I think what I'm and what a 820 00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:47,200 Speaker 2: lot of play therapist society to do, is to really 821 00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:50,799 Speaker 2: get these skills to be more applicable to this day 822 00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:52,759 Speaker 2: and not just this day and age, but to other 823 00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:55,360 Speaker 2: activities as well. So, yeah, there are principles that you 824 00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:57,799 Speaker 2: can still use in the online world or in the 825 00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:00,239 Speaker 2: in the gaming I mean, there's lots of therapy sort 826 00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:03,319 Speaker 2: of even combined like minecraft and therapy, you know, and 827 00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:05,640 Speaker 2: kind of been really creative in the ways that they're 828 00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:09,879 Speaker 2: joining the technology stuff into it. So I think, yes, 829 00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:13,480 Speaker 2: if we can be more flexible and adaptable, then we 830 00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:17,000 Speaker 2: can still use the therapeutic principles in the online space. 831 00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:21,520 Speaker 2: And if anything, it opens up so much more draws too. Yeah. 832 00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:25,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, my last one before we let you go, and 833 00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:29,440 Speaker 1: I know you're young, you're young, you're a puppet, but 834 00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:34,759 Speaker 1: do you think there's more anxiety in kids? You know, 835 00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,040 Speaker 1: let's just say your group three, did you say three 836 00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:38,319 Speaker 1: to twelve? Is your group two to twelve? 837 00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:38,520 Speaker 2: Yep? 838 00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:40,960 Speaker 1: Do you think there's more anxiety in that group? Now? 839 00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:43,560 Speaker 1: Do you think there's more anxiety in that group now 840 00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:46,840 Speaker 1: than say, twenty years ago when you were a kid, 841 00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:50,880 Speaker 1: or do you think we just have far more awareness about, 842 00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:53,240 Speaker 1: you know, the anxiety that is there. 843 00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:56,919 Speaker 2: Maybe a bit of both, really, I mean, I think 844 00:42:56,920 --> 00:42:59,000 Speaker 2: that there is a lot more anxiety and even for 845 00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:01,759 Speaker 2: parents as well kids, there's so much more pressure, like 846 00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:03,799 Speaker 2: to be all the things to their child. And you 847 00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:07,799 Speaker 2: know that that I'm influencing, you know, influencing this child. 848 00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:10,200 Speaker 2: I'm raising a child. This is like a huge responsibility. 849 00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:11,920 Speaker 2: You can get them to be very anxious, and like 850 00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:13,880 Speaker 2: I said, a child, I mean, a parent trying to 851 00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:15,399 Speaker 2: be perfect is going to raise a child that's trying 852 00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:17,680 Speaker 2: to be perfect. So there's one part to it. But yeah, 853 00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:19,839 Speaker 2: you're also right, a lot of things that parents won't 854 00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:23,279 Speaker 2: even know in the previous generation was anxiety is now 855 00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:25,600 Speaker 2: talked about. We're putting names to it, we're talking about 856 00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:28,720 Speaker 2: those feelings in our bodies that you know are anxiety driven. 857 00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:33,360 Speaker 2: We're talking about all these other things to do with anxiety. 858 00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:34,759 Speaker 2: So yeah, I think it's a bit of both. 859 00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:41,319 Speaker 1: I'd say, yeah, yeah, I also I wonder what you know, 860 00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:44,200 Speaker 1: it's like we're spoken about this to a little bit. 861 00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:45,799 Speaker 1: It's a bit of a dead horse, but I just 862 00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:49,239 Speaker 1: like your take on it. I mean, like, we want 863 00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:51,680 Speaker 1: our kids to be able to adapt and be flexible 864 00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:54,600 Speaker 1: and to be able to socialize in different contexts, and 865 00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:58,000 Speaker 1: we want them to be you know, within reason. We 866 00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:00,760 Speaker 1: want them to be resilient and all of those things, 867 00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:03,319 Speaker 1: but at the same time, we want to protect them 868 00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:09,120 Speaker 1: from everything like this exactly, this dichotomy. It's like, I 869 00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:11,239 Speaker 1: want my kids to be strong, but I don't ever 870 00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:13,120 Speaker 1: want them to do anything hard. 871 00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:16,560 Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, and yeah, I want them to predict them 872 00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:18,160 Speaker 2: from all the things, but then I want them to 873 00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:20,919 Speaker 2: build like he said, this resilience. But also if you 874 00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:23,200 Speaker 2: really look at a lot of parents' descriptions of what 875 00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:25,120 Speaker 2: they want their child to be, it's like, well, how 876 00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:28,000 Speaker 2: far away away from this idea I allows version of 877 00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:30,759 Speaker 2: a human because you'll see you'll see parents put their 878 00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:34,080 Speaker 2: child in three four, five extra reproductivities, but they don't 879 00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:36,960 Speaker 2: have a hobby themselves. And so it's so easy for 880 00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:38,960 Speaker 2: us as adults to sit on the sidelines and be 881 00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:41,560 Speaker 2: like you go do this and like, you know, be 882 00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:45,360 Speaker 2: this like perfectly well balanced human, while we're like not 883 00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:48,080 Speaker 2: even on that path or not even seeing the benefit 884 00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:51,239 Speaker 2: of that. So I think, yeah, we're having really unrealistic 885 00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:54,480 Speaker 2: expectations of what a human can be like because it 886 00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:56,040 Speaker 2: is our child and we're like, I want all the 887 00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:58,680 Speaker 2: best things for them. But then yeah, that's a lot 888 00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:00,880 Speaker 2: of pressure, a lot of pres if they're not on 889 00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:01,719 Speaker 2: the journey. 890 00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:05,719 Speaker 1: Tue, what's on the what's in the agenda for Christmas? 891 00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:07,360 Speaker 1: For the good doc and the kids? 892 00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:11,239 Speaker 2: Wow, I live in a small town, so we'll be 893 00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:14,640 Speaker 2: having you know, a nice summers the Christmas, you know, 894 00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:17,800 Speaker 2: with in the pool and lots of food. Of course, 895 00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:18,800 Speaker 2: that would be really great. 896 00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:22,920 Speaker 1: What about you did you did you say, Margaret River? No, 897 00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:27,080 Speaker 1: oh wow, that's north That's wow. 898 00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:31,200 Speaker 2: S Appilbra Christmas for me this year. 899 00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:34,719 Speaker 1: Get that hot up there. I'm just going to see 900 00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:39,960 Speaker 1: my folks. My folks, understandably, are pretty old and you 901 00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:43,440 Speaker 1: get to a point where you don't know how many 902 00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:45,840 Speaker 1: Christmas is you're going to have left with those people, 903 00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:49,120 Speaker 1: you know, so God bless their little socks. So I'm 904 00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:53,399 Speaker 1: heading up to see Ron and Mary and yeah, we'll 905 00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:56,479 Speaker 1: see how that goes. So it's you know, it won't 906 00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:00,440 Speaker 1: it won't be anything exciting, but it's nice. I just 907 00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:03,240 Speaker 1: like spending time with them, Like it's funny the older 908 00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:06,760 Speaker 1: that I become and the older of course that they become. 909 00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:09,480 Speaker 1: You know, you think a little bit like that. You think, 910 00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:11,719 Speaker 1: I wonder how many they live two hours away from me? 911 00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:14,839 Speaker 1: I wonder how many more times I'll drive up this road. 912 00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:16,239 Speaker 1: You know, I don't want to have any. 913 00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:18,400 Speaker 2: More Christmases that you have with them and all of that. 914 00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:23,840 Speaker 1: So yeah, Hey, if people want to find you, follow you, 915 00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:27,560 Speaker 1: connect with you, see you on social media, or shoot 916 00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:29,960 Speaker 1: you an email or something like that, how does that happen? 917 00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:34,280 Speaker 2: So my Instagram is just my name Dr Sam Casey, 918 00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:36,560 Speaker 2: or they can find me on my website which is 919 00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:41,480 Speaker 2: www dot dotor SAMKC dot com probably my two main ones. 920 00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:43,320 Speaker 2: So yeah, they'll be able to contact me to say. 921 00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:46,640 Speaker 1: That Sam, your ace. I appreciate you. Thank you for 922 00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:50,319 Speaker 1: coming on again. We'll say goodbye once we sign off. 923 00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:52,040 Speaker 1: We'll do that off air, but for the moment, thanks 924 00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:53,480 Speaker 1: for being on the You project again. 925 00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:55,320 Speaker 2: Thanks so much for having me again.