Speaker 1: We'd like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land
Speaker 1: on which this podcast was produced, the Gadigle people of
Speaker 1: the orination. We pay our respects to Elder's past and present.
Speaker 1: This episode contains discussion of suicide. If this raises any
Speaker 1: issues for you, support is available through the links and
Speaker 1: phone numbers in the show notes.
Speaker 2: It's the height of summer and we're on the sands
Speaker 2: of Sydney's iconic Bondai Beach, with the sun beating down
Speaker 2: and the waves crashing. It's an idealic spot to spend
Speaker 2: the day and that's why tens of thousands of beach
Speaker 2: goers flock here on a day like this. But Bruce Hoppo'
Speaker 2: Hopkins isn't here for us swim and an ice cream.
Speaker 2: Hopo is the head lifeguard and star of Bondai Rescue.
Speaker 2: Surrounded by cameras and crew. There's a lot at stake here.
Speaker 2: When someone gets into trouble, it's his job to return
Speaker 2: them to safety, with their family and friends, tourists and
Speaker 2: the world watching. I'm at Middleton and this is head
Speaker 2: game today and insight into the pressure of being one
Speaker 2: of the world's most influential lifeguards and sat opposite me
Speaker 2: right now is Bruce hop o' hopkins. Bondai rescue is
Speaker 2: what you're known for, but ultimately you've been saving lives
Speaker 2: from a young age. How and when did you first
Speaker 2: realize that you wanted to be a lifeguard, because I
Speaker 2: know you Ozzies love the sea, love the beach. And
Speaker 2: how did you get into it?
Speaker 3: Well, look started when I was doing a lot of
Speaker 3: ocean racing, Like I'm in racing and there's the big
Speaker 3: cool and get of gold, and everyone wanted to be
Speaker 3: an im in at a young age, and I had
Speaker 3: to find a job that fitted in with being able
Speaker 3: to do a lot of training and then also been
Speaker 3: able to compete, and lifeguard was the perfect perfect match.
Speaker 3: It was you got paid, I got to betray and
Speaker 3: then also on top of that, I got to you know,
Speaker 3: look after people and at the beach and rescue people
Speaker 3: and save people's lives.
Speaker 4: So I had the best of all worlds in one hit.
Speaker 2: And when's the first time you actually witnessed the sort
Speaker 2: of a lifeguard in action and you thought, cod wow,
Speaker 2: these these people really deceive lives.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I looked up to a lot of
Speaker 3: the lifeguards growing up as a kid. You know, they
Speaker 3: were down there and they're doing the rescues, and it
Speaker 3: was something that he looked up and thought, how amazing that,
Speaker 3: you know, these guys are going out massive surf, they're
Speaker 3: going out in small surf, they're doing resuscitations, they're rescuing people.
Speaker 3: It's just something that really was admirable. You know, we
Speaker 3: really looked up to all the lifeguards and I didn't
Speaker 3: think one day when I was older, I'd end up
Speaker 3: being one myself. But when I did become a lifeguard,
Speaker 3: you become really proud and excited to be a part
Speaker 3: of that team.
Speaker 2: So it's sort of like a natural progression, right you're
Speaker 2: in the sea all the time. He was hanging around
Speaker 2: that sort of community, watching people do their thing, and
Speaker 2: like you said, you know you could do that along
Speaker 2: where you're training. Was there, especially back in the day,
Speaker 2: you know, when you when you look at lifeguards, did
Speaker 2: the whole aura of you know, being a chick magnet
Speaker 2: and you know, running along the beach and because you know,
Speaker 2: we all we all watched the Baywatch, Was there ever
Speaker 2: an element of that that intrigued you into the job.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well it did, because you know, you turn up
Speaker 3: the beach. There's plenty of girls around, There's plenty of
Speaker 3: different people coming from all especially Bonda is all around
Speaker 3: the world people are coming and visiting Bondalai and yeah,
Speaker 3: flocks of them. So it was something that yeah interesting.
Speaker 3: It was just a great environment to be in. And
Speaker 3: you know, some days at Bondo, you go down to
Speaker 3: the south end, you know, you feel like you're in Italy.
Speaker 3: You could be feeling like you're in Sweden, you feel
Speaker 3: like you're in England, depending on what you know. There's
Speaker 3: that many different nationalities are around, and it's just changed
Speaker 3: the whole.
Speaker 4: The dynamic of the beach is amazing.
Speaker 2: And was there ever a moment where before you got
Speaker 2: into your lifeguarding, especially with being so active as you were,
Speaker 2: there ever a moment that you realized how dangerous the
Speaker 2: ocean can be.
Speaker 4: I mean, you grow up respecting it.
Speaker 3: I mean you start surfing at a young age in
Speaker 3: Australia and you go out and you get held down
Speaker 3: by plenty of waves and you realize that it's way
Speaker 3: more powerful than what you are. So but you learn,
Speaker 3: you learn where your limitations are, you learn on how
Speaker 3: to use the ocean to your advantage and That's what
Speaker 3: I've been lucky to grow up with, and I can
Speaker 3: use the ocean to my advantage now rather than fight
Speaker 3: against the water that you're saying when people do get
Speaker 3: stuck in rips, they're fighting the water rather than just
Speaker 3: letting themselves go and flow with it.
Speaker 2: Because there's an art to it, Isn't that? How hard
Speaker 2: is it to really study the ocean and how hard
Speaker 2: is it to become a lifeguard here in Australia, especially
Speaker 2: on the beaches.
Speaker 3: Oh, it's really difficult because unless you've grown up with
Speaker 3: it so just to learn it real quick.
Speaker 4: It takes years and years and years.
Speaker 3: To understand how the ocean works. And a lot of
Speaker 3: people come over and think they're good enough to get
Speaker 3: out there in the surf and next thing you know,
Speaker 3: they get caught in trouble. And I've had people around
Speaker 3: the world that said that, you know, they've lifeguarding or
Speaker 3: they've done lifeguards before around the world, but it's either
Speaker 3: in a pool that could be lake and a different
Speaker 3: story when you get out of here with plenty of
Speaker 3: waves and a lot of water moving. So it makes it,
Speaker 3: you know, very difficult, and to become a lifeguard, it's
Speaker 3: a big process to be able to get to that
Speaker 3: level and have that skill.
Speaker 4: And most of the time the people.
Speaker 3: We get they've grown up with it and understand years nature. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, you learn quick as a kid.
Speaker 3: You learn a bit quicker than you know that when
Speaker 3: you're an adult, and just growing up with it just
Speaker 3: makes it so much easier. And I mean by the
Speaker 3: time you get to about eight nineteen and you're coming
Speaker 3: on as a lifeguard, if you're coming that at that age,
Speaker 3: you know, you've had a good fifteen sixteen years of
Speaker 3: around the beaches and understanding how it all works. And
Speaker 3: you know, I see young kids now that are four
Speaker 3: or five six years old are getting out there on
Speaker 3: little phone boards and you know they're learning. One day
Speaker 3: they may be a lifeguard as well down the track
Speaker 3: when we get a bit older.
Speaker 2: What made you decide, right, this is what I want
Speaker 2: to do. When was that, you know, because there's a
Speaker 2: difference between doing the course becoming a lifeguard. But when
Speaker 2: did you actually go, actually, I love what I do,
Speaker 2: really really to use this as a career.
Speaker 3: Well, when I first started, I thought I'll just do
Speaker 3: it for five years. Five years was like you've got
Speaker 3: given a senior lifeguard title, and I thought, I'll do
Speaker 3: it five years and then move on to something else.
Speaker 4: That time came.
Speaker 3: And I thought I was sort of enjoying it. A
Speaker 3: few people left that were the boss left, a few
Speaker 3: other people were leaving at the time. Were rolling into
Speaker 3: the Sydney Olympics in two thousand and I had the
Speaker 3: vision of where lifeguarding was going to go. So back
Speaker 3: in those days, it was really just a seasonal job
Speaker 3: where you come in in September, finishing around April, and
Speaker 3: that was it. You had to go find other work
Speaker 3: in the winter. In the nineties, so but I could
Speaker 3: see it being a professional and we'd lose all the
Speaker 3: older guys because obviously that are families and couldn't sustain just.
Speaker 2: Not working in the experience as well experience, and.
Speaker 3: I thought, well, I think we can make this in
Speaker 3: a permanent, a permanent, full time job career for people.
Speaker 3: And once the Olympics hit, that was the the stepping
Speaker 3: stone where we could really start. We had to work
Speaker 3: longer because Olympics came in and around that August into
Speaker 3: the September period, so we had to start a bit earlier,
Speaker 3: and then we extended the season into the May because
Speaker 3: the water was always still warmer as well into May,
Speaker 3: so we only had a couple of months that was
Speaker 3: you know, we weren't working, and eventually we just said
Speaker 3: we'll try and go full time and then that was
Speaker 3: the goal and get all the beaches full time and
Speaker 3: Bondai was went full time, and then we look after
Speaker 3: Bronnie and Tamarama as well in the way of the
Speaker 3: council area, and then that went full time. And once
Speaker 3: we had the beaches twelve months of the year, that
Speaker 3: created everybody to then continue as a permanent lifeguard and
Speaker 3: there's no more seasonal so and we retain a lot
Speaker 3: more as well now because it's a full time permanent job.
Speaker 3: So it's basically just got casuals who fill in the
Speaker 3: shifts when we need gaps or guys are gone on leave.
Speaker 3: Most of them are like paramedics or fieries or things
Speaker 3: like that in emergency services and help out and yeah,
Speaker 3: so it sort of came about that way from the
Speaker 3: Olympics and I had this vision that I think we
Speaker 3: can take it to another level and it was weird
Speaker 3: that everyone left. I sort of fell into the head
Speaker 3: lifeguard role without really even knowing it around the Olympic period.
Speaker 2: And natural progression sort of thing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was just sort of happened that way.
Speaker 3: And I didn't really understand at the time why they
Speaker 3: just put me in there. But we had the stadium
Speaker 3: as a ten thousand seat stadium that went onto the beach,
Speaker 3: and high tide would block the beach because it was
Speaker 3: hit in the back of the stand that was on BONDI.
Speaker 3: They had the beach volleyball down there, and then so
Speaker 3: we had to break it into two beaches, set at
Speaker 3: the south end and then the north end, and we
Speaker 3: came up with a you know, we put a tower
Speaker 3: down the north end, had all the main areas at
Speaker 3: the south because that's predominantly our worst areas, the south end,
Speaker 3: and we just came up with a plan and a
Speaker 3: patrolling strategy plan and put that in place and it
Speaker 3: just really worked well. And I think then the councils thought, well,
Speaker 3: we've done that, and the next thing, you know, they
Speaker 3: put me in the role and we continue on that way,
Speaker 3: and I'm going to stay and probably make this now
Speaker 3: in my career rather than sort of after five years
Speaker 3: I'm out of here to do something else.
Speaker 4: And it was perfect.
Speaker 3: Timing and without me even knowing or realizing, and then
Speaker 3: I could just see where we needed to go with
Speaker 3: it and how we needed to get the lifeguards to
Speaker 3: a higher level.
Speaker 4: And it was just lucky that that period happened.
Speaker 3: And it wasn't long after that, you know, three four
Speaker 3: years we changed the whole service and it became a
Speaker 3: lot more professional and obviously we do a lot of
Speaker 3: physical tests and we dropped the times way lower than
Speaker 3: what the standard was. So that made it, in my mind,
Speaker 3: was if you really wanted to be there, you do
Speaker 3: whatever you need to do to pass that test to
Speaker 3: get on. And that brought the team a lot closer
Speaker 3: because we just had people that wanted to be there,
Speaker 3: and it made it a lot easier than too to
Speaker 3: work as one rather than having some people just there
Speaker 3: for the sake of being there, and other people are
Speaker 3: passionate about being a lifeguard, but then they've been brought
Speaker 3: down by other people who just didn't really give a stuff,
Speaker 3: and so.
Speaker 2: It would have been the opposite, right the moment you
Speaker 2: go from seasonal to full time. Oh, I love that, mate,
Speaker 2: I love that because normally when that happens, and that
Speaker 2: you know, people who in demand they lower the standards,
Speaker 2: and then the standards dropped just to fill those places
Speaker 2: because all of a sudden you've gone from that seasonal
Speaker 2: change to the full time change. That's really interesting to
Speaker 2: know and were you part of that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it it was me that suggested to get
Speaker 3: that way. So and when he did it that way
Speaker 3: to get the people that want to be there. So
Speaker 3: people would drop off because they just asked, I can't
Speaker 3: do it whatever, and then they drop off, but we
Speaker 3: got the core group with people that you know. For
Speaker 3: an example, one guy complained that I'm not going to
Speaker 3: lose so many guys and a lot of people are
Speaker 3: winging about it, and so this guy, so we had
Speaker 3: we dropped it to thirteen minutes for the for the
Speaker 3: in the pool, swim eight hundred meters under thirteen minutes,
Speaker 3: and then we did the ocean test after we finished
Speaker 3: the pool. But using the pool as an example, he
Speaker 3: would swim say third minutes thirty when it used to
Speaker 3: be fourteen minutes. So he's going, well, I'm going to
Speaker 3: file because it's now thirteen minutes. And I said, no,
Speaker 3: if you really want to be here, you'll do whatever work,
Speaker 3: whatever you need to do to get under thirteen, he said, oh,
Speaker 3: I'm getting older and older. So at that stage he
Speaker 3: was probably about forty two. So by the time he
Speaker 3: gave it away and finished, he was probably in his
Speaker 3: early fifties. And he's early so ten years later he's
Speaker 3: swimming twelve thirty, but ten years younger he was swimming
Speaker 3: thirteen thirty.
Speaker 2: Yeah, amazing.
Speaker 3: So because he wanted to be there, he did what
Speaker 3: he had to do to be able to do the time.
Speaker 2: So that just he've got the standards there then, right,
Speaker 2: you know, and again like people that want to be there,
Speaker 2: people that want to better themselves, people that want to
Speaker 2: you know, be at their optiments in order to save lives.
Speaker 2: And when you want to when you go, you got
Speaker 2: to go right. You know your job, she knows her job.
Speaker 2: He knows his job. Les, let's move together so you
Speaker 2: can focus on your on the job at hand. So
Speaker 2: did it become sort of a career profession I suppose
Speaker 2: where before it was like, do you know what, this
Speaker 2: is just seasonal? Now it is more of a career, right,
Speaker 2: you look at it as more more of a career
Speaker 2: because it's full time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was always known when I first started, and
Speaker 3: then the nine is always known as a job you
Speaker 3: did before you went and got a real job. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and then and then, as you say, it went permanent
Speaker 3: and that made it. You know, once jobs go permanent,
Speaker 3: they have to become more professional and that's something that
Speaker 3: everyone wanted that and enjoyed that stage on how it changed,
Speaker 3: and it was really good because you know. The other
Speaker 3: thing too, though, is you're getting people on when you
Speaker 3: do a rescue. You times, I wouldn't put myself in
Speaker 3: that position just going out in the water if it's
Speaker 3: on a certain day, but I've got to put myself
Speaker 3: in that position to get that person out of that
Speaker 3: critical situation. So you're putting yourself in that's right, You're
Speaker 3: going against your instinction training and that's right and putting
Speaker 3: yourself into that position. And it can be quite daunting
Speaker 3: and frightening at times where you know, and whenever someone
Speaker 3: gets into trouble, they always put themselves somehow into the
Speaker 3: worst possible position they could ever get in.
Speaker 4: And then you've got going and get them out.
Speaker 2: Because they don't know they're doing exactly like me. I'm
Speaker 2: doing the exact gob what I'm supposed to do, you know,
Speaker 2: And what was the pressure like because at such a
Speaker 2: young age, you're this you know young. Yeah, you've got
Speaker 2: five six years under your belt, but in the grand
Speaker 2: scheme of things, that's nothing.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean it was tough at times, you know, because
Speaker 3: you were the younger one and you're trying to call
Speaker 3: the shots and you had to earn that respect.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because there's still a lot of older guys there.
Speaker 3: They've been there a lot longer than I had, and
Speaker 3: you just had to earn that respect. And it was
Speaker 3: funny though with I never realized till I got older,
Speaker 3: that with the leadership leading teams, because when I was younger,
Speaker 3: I was always get and I was very quiet, hardly
Speaker 3: said a word, you know when I was younger, and
Speaker 3: but always end up the captain of the cricket team
Speaker 3: or captain of the football team. And I always and
Speaker 3: I said to a coach once, I said, why would
Speaker 3: you put me? And I hardly say a word and
Speaker 3: he goes, no, But everyone respects you because what happens
Speaker 3: is when you do say something, everyone listens.
Speaker 4: And I said, okay.
Speaker 3: And then I've realized that now later going through the
Speaker 3: career I've gone through that you've got to earn the
Speaker 3: respect and you've got to be able to do the job.
Speaker 3: But then you don't want to be saying too much
Speaker 3: all the time. It's when you do say something, then
Speaker 3: people listen, and that's how you get the team working
Speaker 3: really well when they are in that mindset.
Speaker 2: And what are you looking for apart from the you know,
Speaker 2: the benchmark sort of criteria tests what you're looking for
Speaker 2: in a team member.
Speaker 3: Well, you're looking for one they've got to have the
Speaker 3: skill level you know, to come in. But that's not
Speaker 3: the end game. You know, it's a lot of learning
Speaker 3: when you come into the knowing when to beat a
Speaker 3: certain spot. And you know, we have a lot of
Speaker 3: banner in the tower. I mean, you could turn up
Speaker 3: in looking the best you've ever looked and still get
Speaker 3: ripped apart in the bag and whatever. So that's a
Speaker 3: that's a good part with it. And so you need
Speaker 3: to have that and be able to cop a bit
Speaker 3: of banner as well as well as given you don't
Speaker 3: you don't want to be someone that just gets all
Speaker 3: upset and about getting paid out and accept it.
Speaker 2: The way of bringing people in, isn't it, and in
Speaker 2: a way making them feel comfortab in a bizarre type
Speaker 2: of way.
Speaker 3: And then the other thing too is the observation and
Speaker 3: been able to stand out in the sun and the
Speaker 3: heat and keep the concentration. People don't realize they see
Speaker 3: us this watching, but that don't realize that what the
Speaker 3: stress on that And in the back of your mind,
Speaker 3: if you come in have a bad day and make
Speaker 3: a mistake, it could cost someone their life. Whereas if
Speaker 3: you're in the office and make a mistake, just fix
Speaker 3: it up later and you might lose a bit of
Speaker 3: money or something in the company, but you.
Speaker 4: Can fix that up.
Speaker 2: Have you ever had a bad day?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean we've had bad days.
Speaker 3: And we get a lot of we cover the gap,
Speaker 3: so that's where a lot of suicides happen up the gap,
Speaker 3: the gap up at south Head there in the eastern suburbs,
Speaker 3: and so we get a lot of the body.
Speaker 4: Retrievals, and.
Speaker 2: That's your area of operations.
Speaker 4: So we go up on the jet scheme and people
Speaker 4: don't realize that.
Speaker 3: They don't realize so because the police boat come, it's
Speaker 3: about a half an hour for them to come around
Speaker 3: the time they get around, so we try and get
Speaker 3: there to secure the body before they lose it all together.
Speaker 3: And so we deal with that and then have to
Speaker 3: hang onto the body. But now we've got to stay
Speaker 3: out in the water till the police boat comes around.
Speaker 3: And that affects a lot of the guys too sometimes
Speaker 3: and the girls.
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, it's I mean early days.
Speaker 3: And then I've just accepted that's a part of the
Speaker 3: job and we've got to train people into that that
Speaker 3: the longer you're going to be a lifeguard, you either
Speaker 3: get a resuscitation, you'll get a drowning, you'll get a suicide,
Speaker 3: you'll get you know, even today when I was coming
Speaker 3: in here, we had a guy a massive drug overdase
Speaker 3: that we're dealing with on the beach. So there's a
Speaker 3: whole range of things that we're dealing with that you know,
Speaker 3: it can be quite horrific at times, and that's why
Speaker 3: we brought in We always trained physically and we're always
Speaker 3: physically fit, but we never ever trained mentally.
Speaker 4: So we brought in a guy about.
Speaker 3: Five six years ago, doctor David said, and he's been
Speaker 3: working a lot with us, and to the point where
Speaker 3: now everyone will if they've got an issue, they'll come
Speaker 3: and tell you, whereas back in my day it was
Speaker 3: like if I said I had an issue with.
Speaker 4: Pulling the body in.
Speaker 2: It'd be like a tough en app to get on
Speaker 2: with it, you know, just you wouldn't even there and.
Speaker 3: You wouldn't even say it because you're petrified that they
Speaker 3: think you're weak or.
Speaker 4: Something and they get rid of it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and now we've sort of turn that around though,
Speaker 3: where because we could do a massive incident and it
Speaker 3: might be saying one o'clock in the day, that incident's gone.
Speaker 3: You know, the police, the ambulance whatever, take them away.
Speaker 3: You roll straight back out and keep working.
Speaker 2: You're still in that environment, still in the same environment.
Speaker 2: Not that you can escape it. It's happened. It's happened there,
Speaker 2: that's right. And then so we just then continue on.
Speaker 3: So now it's like the guys, look, I just need
Speaker 3: to now break or something, or maybe I need to
Speaker 3: go home or next day they'll ring up and so
Speaker 3: I need a bit of time off or and we go, okay,
Speaker 3: well that's fine, that's you know, and they're now saying
Speaker 3: that and coming forward. And so we've broken that stigma
Speaker 3: of you know, the typical bloke tough and it's been
Speaker 3: good that way to try.
Speaker 2: And change just just that you know, also being a
Speaker 2: good team member is recognizing that as well. You know,
Speaker 2: sometimes you don't need to ask, you know, you shouldn't
Speaker 2: need to ask if you were part of a team
Speaker 2: like that. You know, someone should recognize it. Go, hey, yeah,
Speaker 2: you've just asked someone asking if you're okay. Have you
Speaker 2: ever had a stand out? It's called a standout rescue?
Speaker 2: That's that's affected you. You know, that's really sort of yeah,
Speaker 2: you've taken home.
Speaker 3: There's probably a couple of things. My first ever body retrieval,
Speaker 3: the body had been there a while, and it was
Speaker 3: in the nineties when you know, we just went out
Speaker 3: and grabbed them and came back in and on the
Speaker 3: guys said, I just grabbed the arm, grabbed the arm
Speaker 3: and it had been the water for a fair while,
Speaker 3: and the arms is like, come off the socker of
Speaker 3: the shoulder. So I'm hanging on the I'm making onto
Speaker 3: the arm, going what am I doing now?
Speaker 2: Your joke? So the arm came off, came off.
Speaker 4: It came off because there'd been the water for probably
Speaker 4: a week or more. I'm just going, what am going
Speaker 4: to do?
Speaker 3: I was probably early twenties, early twenties at that stage,
Speaker 3: so that was like a obviously, and I have back then,
Speaker 3: and that's the same. You come back in and they go, well.
Speaker 3: I was just sort of dealing with it, and obviously
Speaker 3: in those days you don't say anything if it is
Speaker 3: affecting you. And then it was like I would just
Speaker 3: all you just go gave a beer after work, Just
Speaker 3: have a beer, and turn up to work next day,
Speaker 3: and it's like it's never happened, and then you continue on.
Speaker 3: So those sort of things were probably tough in those days.
Speaker 3: There's a rescue I did a fair few years ago
Speaker 3: that I thought I'm going to have to let the
Speaker 3: person go to save myself. It was that critical. So
Speaker 3: I went into as a normal standard rescue. And when
Speaker 3: I got to the guy, he was probably probably mid
Speaker 3: forties and he was really struggling, and I got to him.
Speaker 4: We hung on. I just couldn't get out, just kept.
Speaker 3: Getting hit by wave after wave after wave, and got
Speaker 3: stuck there just behind the icebergs, and with him with him,
Speaker 3: and we're there and I'm trying to battle to get
Speaker 3: I couldn't go out because the waves kept breaking. I
Speaker 3: couldn't get He was just hanging on, trying to breathe.
Speaker 3: He's thinking he's going to die. I'm trying to calm
Speaker 3: him down as much as I could. But then I
Speaker 3: got to the point where going kept rolling, the board
Speaker 3: kept rolling, kept rolling. I just couldn't get out of
Speaker 3: that position. And I thought Jesus, then, only time out
Speaker 3: of thirty two years as a professional lifeguard, I thought
Speaker 3: I might have to I think I'm going to get
Speaker 3: out of this spot. I might have to let him
Speaker 3: go to get because I'm starting a fatigue as well.
Speaker 4: I'm getting tired.
Speaker 3: We've been there for a while, and you know, you're
Speaker 3: getting hit, hold in your breath, going under, getting hit again,
Speaker 3: hit again. It's like getting ragged old and constantly, over
Speaker 3: and over and over.
Speaker 4: And I thought, anyway.
Speaker 3: Well, I kept battling with it, and I eventually we
Speaker 3: got there and got him back in.
Speaker 2: And but there was a moment that you thought, I'm
Speaker 2: going to have to push it.
Speaker 3: I thought I'd have to let him go to save
Speaker 3: myself and bring myself and he would have drowned one
Speaker 3: hundred percent.
Speaker 4: Wouldn't have that was that would have been the end
Speaker 4: of his life.
Speaker 2: What was different? What was Was it just a different
Speaker 2: movement or just you just got it right?
Speaker 4: Well, how do you know, it was just a matter.
Speaker 3: I think that we just got that little bit of
Speaker 3: a lullin in waves and it just gave us that
Speaker 3: little bit of time time to get a little bit
Speaker 3: further across, and then I could get washed in with
Speaker 3: the waves that just couldn't get out of this. We're
Speaker 3: just we'd go one way the wave had hit and
Speaker 3: pull us back into that position again. Then I'd make
Speaker 3: it a bit further and then another wave had come
Speaker 3: and then we'd have to roll and just pull us
Speaker 3: back into the same position again. It was just like
Speaker 3: back and forward, back and forward, until finally we just
Speaker 3: got past that point where we could actually I could
Speaker 3: wash in and not get caught in that position. But
Speaker 3: when I came to the beach, which I didn't know,
Speaker 3: he had his nine year old son there waiting on
Speaker 3: the beach, And then that hit me because I thought, geez, imagine,
Speaker 3: but to let his father go, I've come in.
Speaker 4: They had to face him a.
Speaker 3: Nine year old Goo, where's my dad?
Speaker 2: Did that sense of Wow, I need to let him
Speaker 2: go to I've bought him back to you. Yeah, I've
Speaker 2: bought him back to you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the reward, you know, you've achieved something that
Speaker 3: was quite difficult and out of your control. Like I
Speaker 3: said before, I'm putting myself in positions that I wouldn't
Speaker 3: just go and do myself. You know, it's like yourself
Speaker 3: in going out to war or whatever. You're not you
Speaker 3: put yourself in positions you never ever put yourself in,
Speaker 3: and it's something that you know. I don't think people
Speaker 3: realize that side of life being a lifeguard. And as
Speaker 3: you said, that's where we need to prepare people when
Speaker 3: they're coming on. As you said before, how do you
Speaker 3: get them ready? Well, that's the stage where they need
Speaker 3: to be ready.
Speaker 2: For anyone more inexperienced. You've lost two people there.
Speaker 4: That's right, and that's why we dropped that had the
Speaker 4: test harder.
Speaker 3: We had everything a bit hard because we're putting ourselves
Speaker 3: that you don't want to put someone in. Employ them,
Speaker 3: put them out in that position and something happens to
Speaker 3: them or they die. But we're not invincible, like the
Speaker 3: ocean's way more powerful than it doesn't matter how good
Speaker 3: you are, and I think people forget that. Even though
Speaker 3: we do our job and do it very well, people
Speaker 3: just think, well, nothing ever happened to us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, our personal safety on you know, on the lifeguards. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we go out there and do it there. If we
Speaker 2: get in trouble, they save us.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know we've got a good I've seen
Speaker 3: it when I've go I go places, and I've got
Speaker 3: a pretty good record with resuscitations over the years. And
Speaker 3: people think hop backs, ye swept. So if someone drops
Speaker 3: dead and it's just a matter of olders revive.
Speaker 2: Them, and we're talking about how many how many.
Speaker 3: I've probably done, do you'z have a three two years
Speaker 3: like proper ones will be up around the forty probably
Speaker 3: forty to forty to fifty proper like dead, Yeah, dead
Speaker 3: and funny and bring them back. Early days nineties you
Speaker 3: didn't have as much of a success rate. But since
Speaker 3: the defibrillators came in, that's so much better.
Speaker 2: They don't even realize what you know that goes on
Speaker 2: once you scrape away the surface. Talk about psychological resilience,
Speaker 2: physical resilience, emotional resilience. Which is another one that we
Speaker 2: touch on, is there's so much that goes on behind
Speaker 2: the scenes.
Speaker 4: Way more than people think. The shows.
Speaker 3: Great shows, the good fun side of it. But then,
Speaker 3: like you said, we will joke around and banter with
Speaker 3: each other and play jokes on each other, and which
Speaker 3: is just great and that keeps the sanity I think.
Speaker 2: So how did the show come along? Did you just
Speaker 2: were sitting there and the producers come up and go, hey, guys,
Speaker 2: we want to film. How did that happen?
Speaker 4: It's a funny story because.
Speaker 3: Ben Davies, who's the creator of it, he was working
Speaker 3: in TV as producer and get Away and a few
Speaker 3: other different types of shows that were going on at
Speaker 3: the time. This is back in two thousand and four,
Speaker 3: and then he came on. He said, look, there's not
Speaker 3: much doing in the TV world over the summer.
Speaker 4: I might just come on.
Speaker 3: He is a local guy, come on and be a lifeguard,
Speaker 3: just a casual list.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we'll try out. And so he tried out.
Speaker 3: We put him on after the Summery goes, I've been
Speaker 3: born and here, he said. I had no idea what
Speaker 3: I thought. I knew what lifeguards did, he said, now
Speaker 3: I'm working here. I'd had no idea they had any
Speaker 3: resuscitation rescues. Like I was saying that the body retrievers
Speaker 3: all the other stuff that you don't really know or
Speaker 3: hear about.
Speaker 4: And people lie on the beach and they're in their
Speaker 4: own world.
Speaker 3: And if they said I didn't send any rescues today,
Speaker 3: we could have been doing rescues in and and out.
Speaker 3: But they're on the beach, reading a book or talking
Speaker 3: or run whatever they're doing.
Speaker 4: Don't care.
Speaker 3: So after that that, Ben said, oh, he came to
Speaker 3: me said, look, I think there's a TV showing what
Speaker 3: goes on here. And I said, well, how the hell
Speaker 3: would I know. I wouldn't have a clue. I just thought,
Speaker 3: I think he's just talking. He said, give me a bit,
Speaker 3: I'll go away, have a look and see if we
Speaker 3: can pick up a production company or just sound some
Speaker 3: production companies out and see what they think. Because this
Speaker 3: type of show, it was sort of before the reality,
Speaker 3: you know, two thousand and five, two thousand and six,
Speaker 3: and it was we're sort of a documentary slash reality.
Speaker 4: It's a bit of both.
Speaker 3: And then he came back and said, look, I think
Speaker 3: there's a I've got a production companies need to do
Speaker 3: a pilot, and we do a pilot and then picture
Speaker 3: to all the different networks. The problem we had is,
Speaker 3: of course we're employeed by the council, was we had
Speaker 3: to get permission from the Council to be filmed while
Speaker 3: at work, and I thought, there's no way that they're
Speaker 3: going to be allowed that. And I went and saw them,
Speaker 3: had the whole pitch to them and they said, yeah,
Speaker 3: they agreed to it. We got the production company, we
Speaker 3: did the pilot, and we went off to the networks. Anyway,
Speaker 3: we've got the Channel ten were interested, but they were
Speaker 3: worried that, well, what if there's no rescues, what if
Speaker 3: nothing happens. But I'm going, well, I know you're going
Speaker 3: to there's plenty of footage, and they go, so we're
Speaker 3: trying to come in.
Speaker 4: They're going, no, I don't know, I don't know, you're
Speaker 4: the TV. So then they said, we're doing our special.
Speaker 4: That's all we're going to do in our special.
Speaker 2: And that's it off our special.
Speaker 4: That was it anyway, So we started filming.
Speaker 3: They come in about mid December, go through to about
Speaker 3: mid March, seven days a week, and then got all
Speaker 3: the footage. As we're gone, we got a resuscitation which
Speaker 3: I was involved with as well, and from start we're
Speaker 3: running into it to the finish where then we were
Speaker 3: able to get into the ambulance and go to the
Speaker 3: hospital and follow the whole story right through to the end,
Speaker 3: and that had never been captured anywhere in the world
Speaker 3: because most of time camera's coming up, it's half done,
Speaker 3: it's we've done it. Whatever that has happened to be
Speaker 3: there the whole time. Now, that footage then got taken
Speaker 3: all around the world for training for resuscitation, real life footage.
Speaker 3: Now that went back to the executives, plus all the
Speaker 3: gory stuff where the board riding injuries and this cuts
Speaker 3: to the head, and all the other things spinal injuries
Speaker 3: and rescues, and then all the fun stuff that happens
Speaker 3: down there as well, and they said, we've got that
Speaker 3: much foot of the executive we have to make this
Speaker 3: a series. It can't be now anymore saying we got
Speaker 3: all this footage that was so good that they said, we're.
Speaker 4: Going to have to make it a series.
Speaker 2: And you knew that anyway. You know, listen, I've lived
Speaker 2: and breathed these reaches, you listen, trust me.
Speaker 4: Tenty plenty of footage.
Speaker 3: And then so they did the first season, came back
Speaker 3: to the second season, and then it just content was
Speaker 3: just easy content because it's always there, and off it went.
Speaker 3: It is born, and that went wellwide it's it's been
Speaker 3: played in nearly every country around the world. Yeah, since then,
Speaker 3: and we've done eighteen seasons now, so wow.
Speaker 2: What was the dynamics of when they came on board
Speaker 2: and even to now? Does it affect or distract your work?
Speaker 2: Has it? Have you found it to be you know,
Speaker 2: something that obviously is beneficial because it highlights the importance
Speaker 2: of your job and the importance of respecting the sea,
Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera, But also on the flip side,
Speaker 2: has it has there been any sort of moments where
Speaker 2: you thought, do you know what? This is becoming too
Speaker 2: much of a distraction. People are getting into the job
Speaker 2: now because of you know, ulterior motive. They want to
Speaker 2: be celebrities. Their heads aren't in it the camera, They're
Speaker 2: not really focusing on that. They're focusing on the camera.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean by those distractions. As time
Speaker 2: has gone by, did that ever happen as lifeguards?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd say at times when it first started. The
Speaker 3: core group had been working for many years as a
Speaker 3: lifeguard before the TV came along, So it's just a progression.
Speaker 3: But ones that did come on maybe you know, eight
Speaker 3: years time, ten years after the show I had been going,
Speaker 3: would have had the same sort of thing of they're
Speaker 3: coming on thinking they're going to be a you know,
Speaker 3: a celebrit because obviously it happens updoors, it happens up
Speaker 3: course for endorsement or whatever else. You know, when you
Speaker 3: get a profile so people can see that, and then but.
Speaker 2: That comes, when that comes before the job, then then
Speaker 2: you're again those standards are slipping the you know, the
Speaker 2: job is at risk, you know people at risk. You know,
Speaker 2: you're actually not gone from saving lives to putting lives
Speaker 2: in danger, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And good thing is we kept the standard so
Speaker 3: hard that did eliminate a lot of those people that
Speaker 3: wanted to be just the celebrity because they just didn't
Speaker 3: have the physical or the ability in the ocean to
Speaker 3: get the job in the first place. So it's still
Speaker 3: a job we had to apply for through council, had
Speaker 3: to go through the whole process and structure to get
Speaker 3: the job.
Speaker 4: So it wasn't just a walk up start.
Speaker 3: So it made it probably you know, people were trying
Speaker 3: but just didn't get on. And I think we've got
Speaker 3: a good group though too over the years that if
Speaker 3: you've got a bit of a big head or something
Speaker 3: you got cut down pretty quick, it didn't, or you
Speaker 3: got shoved out pretty quick.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so that side of it was pretty good.
Speaker 3: Really we could handle it, even though it didn't you know,
Speaker 3: and I felt I suppose you know, when you get
Speaker 3: in those situations, a lot of the jealousy. You can
Speaker 3: really see the jealousy come into different people, which you
Speaker 3: didn't expect from some people.
Speaker 2: And when you first started off, whether people following you around,
Speaker 2: how much does it progressed because you're in work mode right,
Speaker 2: so it's like you keep up, you get the footage.
Speaker 2: If you don't, then you don't. It was it very
Speaker 2: much like that from the off.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they missed a lot of stuff and the original
Speaker 3: early days obviously because now there's a lot of go pros,
Speaker 3: but prior to that, it was two camera crews on
Speaker 3: the beach, a cameraman on the in the tower all.
Speaker 4: The time, and they were running.
Speaker 3: You could see the juggling up and down with the
Speaker 3: camera trying to run to get because we did go
Speaker 3: and do what we need to do and it was
Speaker 3: up to them to get the shots.
Speaker 4: And it was just yeah, really really funny.
Speaker 3: I remember the they used to have it because they
Speaker 3: didn't know how to shoot it when they first started
Speaker 3: in the first season because it never been done before,
Speaker 3: and it was just a massive beach with how are
Speaker 3: we going to capture all this footage? And they had
Speaker 3: a girl listening to the dialogue in the in the
Speaker 3: underneath the tower, and I remember, after a couple of weeks,
Speaker 3: so how's it all going, I'm thinking, she goes, well,
Speaker 3: she said, it's been very educational, and I'm thinking, I
Speaker 3: can imagine what the guys saying and talking. She's listening
Speaker 3: every single thing that's going through fair enough. And then
Speaker 3: I remember, so we used we wear the the arm
Speaker 3: bands with the mics and we go on the water
Speaker 3: and it goes in there. And so they wrapped the
Speaker 3: mic and a condom and then put it in the
Speaker 3: thing that wraps onto our thing he goes in, so
Speaker 3: it's all waterproof. And I remember one of the poor
Speaker 3: girls they got it to go out of the things,
Speaker 3: she had to buy bags and bags of condoms and
Speaker 3: she come back that embarrassed, thinking I don't know what
Speaker 3: they thoughts and packs.
Speaker 2: You imagine going into the shop. But the spend of
Speaker 2: shame is like the purchase of shame.
Speaker 4: A lot of trial and error back in the early days.
Speaker 3: But obviously as as we progress, we had the water cameraman.
Speaker 3: He used to have to you know, we'd say, it
Speaker 3: looks like it looks people could be getting in trouble here.
Speaker 3: So he'd off he go his flippers and he's water
Speaker 3: cameraman and off he goes into the water. And you know,
Speaker 3: but then obviously once the go pros came in, they're
Speaker 3: all set now on the boards, they're set on the
Speaker 3: jet ski, the bikes, the cameras just going with interference.
Speaker 3: The interference is not much at all. And to be
Speaker 3: honest though, even after the first season, you do forget
Speaker 3: the cameras are there because you get in that mindset
Speaker 3: of what you're doing that and it's not because it's
Speaker 3: not scripted.
Speaker 4: Or anything like that. You forget. You just go and
Speaker 4: do it.
Speaker 3: You go and you come back and your job yet
Speaker 3: and then you're talking yeah, then they'll give you you
Speaker 3: run through the rescue after you've come back out, and
Speaker 3: then because you're in that adrenaline and when you hear
Speaker 3: back later on or they put it on there, you go,
Speaker 3: so do I really say that?
Speaker 4: Because you forget what you actually say away.
Speaker 2: Brief like you would to anything, right, you're given a debrief.
Speaker 2: They're recording that and it's real and worn, authentic. What's
Speaker 2: the most dangerous part of the ocean that most people
Speaker 2: get caught out on? What's this something to look for
Speaker 2: that you would never know if I was to go
Speaker 2: onto a beach in Australia in general.
Speaker 3: Well, I think the main thing is that the rips
Speaker 3: that because people don't.
Speaker 2: Understand what is a rip?
Speaker 4: I mean a rip.
Speaker 3: It's just so waves come in and break on the
Speaker 3: sandbank and then all the war that comes in needs
Speaker 3: to go back out again from the shore. So it's
Speaker 3: just like in, it comes in and it goes back out,
Speaker 3: so it's got to find like a channel to go
Speaker 3: back out, and all it is is a flow of
Speaker 3: water moves around. That's why I'm doing the float to
Speaker 3: survive now. And it's basically if you float in a rip,
Speaker 3: you'll float across and end up on a sand bank
Speaker 3: or where the waves are breaking, which will push you
Speaker 3: back in without trying to swim. Because the mistake a
Speaker 3: lot of people make is their way step. They think
Speaker 3: they're fine, they go to that area because the waves
Speaker 3: aren't breaking off their feet. Yeah, and especially Europe when
Speaker 3: the Europeans when they come here, they're used to the
Speaker 3: flat so it looks more flat water, not no way,
Speaker 3: so I go, but that's where the water is moving
Speaker 3: and pulling away from the beach until they get to
Speaker 3: that way. Step two more steps, three more steps, and
Speaker 3: then sudden they can't stand and they turn around and
Speaker 3: try and swim as fast as they can back to
Speaker 3: where they were because they think that was the safe spot,
Speaker 3: and obviously just exhaust themselves, get tired, keep going out,
Speaker 3: and then start swallowing water and drown, and that's when
Speaker 3: we go on rescue. But now we found if we
Speaker 3: tell them to stop doing it, stop swimming and his
Speaker 3: float and if they listen, they start then moving with
Speaker 3: the rip and we say that's it. Go with the
Speaker 3: flow of the water, keep going, keep going. And then
Speaker 3: we say stand up, because we know they're on the sandbank.
Speaker 4: Stand up.
Speaker 3: They stand up, walk in. So we've reduced our rescues
Speaker 3: now by doing that by fifty percent.
Speaker 4: And there's times.
Speaker 3: Where as I said earlier, used the ocean to advantage,
Speaker 3: and I've had times where guys have been doing rescues
Speaker 3: down the beach and I'll be the only one there,
Speaker 3: and I might. I think there's one episode years ago
Speaker 3: that I had nine or ten people and I had
Speaker 3: them all drowning in the rip. So I've just got
Speaker 3: them all to hang on to the board, and I
Speaker 3: knew we were going to drift across the sand bank.
Speaker 3: And then we're just drifting across. And then we got
Speaker 3: to the sandbank. I say, okay, one now to stand
Speaker 3: up and walk in. And they all walked in. And
Speaker 3: I said, when I got back to the beach, I said, look,
Speaker 3: you don't need me. You all just had to do that.
Speaker 3: You don't need me there. It's just I was there
Speaker 3: drifting with you guys. So that made me realize that
Speaker 3: if everybody floated in the in the ocean, if you're
Speaker 3: flooded in a river, lake, damn back.
Speaker 2: People that say that they can't float, what do you mean?
Speaker 2: Just like even if you like treading water, but just
Speaker 2: in a not in a you're not fighting against anything,
Speaker 2: You're just staying a float.
Speaker 3: So we're talking about it's not the starfish floating is
Speaker 3: the starfish in your back exactly? We call it active
Speaker 3: floating like treading waters. You're moving your arms sculling, sort.
Speaker 2: Of move your legs against anything, letting it take.
Speaker 4: That's right, you're not using your energy.
Speaker 3: You're breathing normal, and if you breathe normally, you're not
Speaker 3: then panicking. Once you panic, you breed heavy, you breathe heavy,
Speaker 3: you're losing all your oction because we've got about four
Speaker 3: leaders of oxyen the lung so lungs and it's a
Speaker 3: natural flotation of buoyancy. So once you lose all that, well,
Speaker 3: then you're you know, you're going to find it hard
Speaker 3: to stay a flight. So let's just trying to change
Speaker 3: that mentality now and get people, which we've been doing
Speaker 3: for probably five six years.
Speaker 2: It's just starting down, isn't it could actually swallow the
Speaker 2: water they start to panic, all the all the has
Speaker 2: gone from their lungs and then swallowing the water.
Speaker 4: You can't.
Speaker 3: I mean, if you if you stay afloat in your
Speaker 3: mouth above water, you don't you can never ever drown.
Speaker 4: If you're not spoiling water, you don't drown. And then
Speaker 4: and also the more you do that, you.
Speaker 2: Do it mate. That's you know, if you keep your
Speaker 2: head above the water and you don't you know, you
Speaker 2: don't swallow water. You're not going to drown.
Speaker 3: Drown, not at all. And people have done it for
Speaker 3: a long long time. But they can float or just
Speaker 3: go for ages. And and the longer you can float,
Speaker 3: the more chance you got someone to come and rescue
Speaker 3: as well.
Speaker 2: Whereas yeah, you're binding yourself time, aren't you.
Speaker 4: That's right.
Speaker 3: Whereas people just just we caught the karate chop. It's
Speaker 3: just they're chopping away like this and all they're doing
Speaker 3: is just doing that to keep the head above water.
Speaker 3: But how long can you keep doing that for? And
Speaker 3: it's like punching a bag? How long can you keep
Speaker 3: in a minute? You're done.
Speaker 4: That's all you can do.
Speaker 2: And how do you deal with shark attacks? And you
Speaker 2: know sharks that are present.
Speaker 4: Well, we've been lucky.
Speaker 3: I mean they years were probably only had one guy
Speaker 3: lost his hand from a shark. So that was about
Speaker 3: ten fifteen years ago at BONDOI present. No, it was
Speaker 3: just we just finished at seven o'clock and then it
Speaker 3: was just going on to dusk and he was out
Speaker 3: surfing later and went across there's a bake ball of
Speaker 3: fish and he's just happened to paddle through the bait
Speaker 3: ball and as his hand's gone in just grabbed his hand,
Speaker 3: so that that's about the only thing. But I mean,
Speaker 3: you often see the sharks and I do a lot
Speaker 3: of down when ocean ski paling. We go like a
Speaker 3: start point about twenty kilometers down the coast, whichever it
Speaker 3: with the wind and all that. And I've had times
Speaker 3: where I've one where I've just run straight into one,
Speaker 3: but it was coming across and I've just hit straight
Speaker 3: into it. And you often see him you're cruising around,
Speaker 3: but none have really come up to sort of worry
Speaker 3: me at all.
Speaker 2: But how about on the beach when people because people
Speaker 2: are petro do you just see him run it in
Speaker 2: a panicking and helps You've got to calm him all
Speaker 2: down and go, you know, yeh, there's other cases. As
Speaker 2: soon as there's a shark siting, is it like everyone up.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we try to identify the shark as well to
Speaker 3: see what you know, because there's only really the three
Speaker 3: that are dangerous to the other's life. It's a great
Speaker 3: nurse or things like that. They're not going to they
Speaker 3: never attack, or a ham ahead they don't really there's
Speaker 3: no known attacks from certain sharks. It's really just the
Speaker 3: bull shark the tiger shark and the great white, so
Speaker 3: you know, if we can establish which one it is,
Speaker 3: which is sometimes quite hard because you're getting it from
Speaker 3: a surfer or someone else. So we have to coordinate
Speaker 3: it quite well because on a busy day we could
Speaker 3: have thirty thousand people there, so there's be a whole
Speaker 3: lot of people that are in the water, and if
Speaker 3: you hit the alarm, what happens is the panic can
Speaker 3: give someone a herd attack or something else can happen
Speaker 3: in the actual stress of trying to get out of
Speaker 3: the water. So we've got to coordinate it quite well
Speaker 3: and have everyone staggered along and then we try and
Speaker 3: bring them out all in a in one go. But yeah,
Speaker 3: people do panic and run out and get out of
Speaker 3: the water pretty quick.
Speaker 4: There's a lot of panic about sharks.
Speaker 2: But how many years have you been in this industry?
Speaker 2: How many years you've been.
Speaker 4: In life going? So I've done thirty two years.
Speaker 2: And how's from man to man? How's your mental health?
Speaker 2: How has it affected you psychologically? Yeah?
Speaker 3: I think at times, you know, you have other things
Speaker 3: happen in your life and then that triggers things.
Speaker 2: That you've dealt with at the beach.
Speaker 3: And you know, it's things like that, and it's good
Speaker 3: we've got in place now because we can ring David
Speaker 3: said as well outside of work, and you can if
Speaker 3: you're feeling a bit struggling a bit with something or
Speaker 3: whatever it is, and then he'll talk through something's not right.
Speaker 3: And he noticed too with other guys, what if they're
Speaker 3: not right that day or something's not right and they're
Speaker 3: a bit different, you know, and normally they're joking around
Speaker 3: and there's something they're not as javel and things.
Speaker 4: Like that, so you can sort of notice it.
Speaker 3: And then because I look back now and I think
Speaker 3: it's good had we've had that and the change of
Speaker 3: when I was back in the nineties, because I think
Speaker 3: that was the biggest effect for me was back in
Speaker 3: the nineties where two of the lifeguards I work with
Speaker 3: have finished lifeguarding ended up committed suicide. So I'm wondering
Speaker 3: whether it had something to do with the job in
Speaker 3: that era and that's the cause, and maybe it's something
Speaker 3: else outside as well.
Speaker 2: And you're probably the prime example to ask this question
Speaker 2: for even when you're off duty, something can trigger something
Speaker 2: that takes you back on ye to duce you, right,
Speaker 2: So that could have possibly had had an effect on
Speaker 2: those two gentlemen, right, Yes.
Speaker 4: Ye, God for sure.
Speaker 3: I know because we do a lot of paddles up
Speaker 3: around with the ocean ski paddling with the squad, and
Speaker 3: we go up and go past the gap, and when
Speaker 3: I do those sessions, I never really performed that well
Speaker 3: when we do those sessions there, and I think it's
Speaker 3: because I've had so many bodies and I'm going past
Speaker 3: where I've dealt with all that in the past, and
Speaker 3: something must trigger me that I just can't. I'm not
Speaker 3: the same to do it in that when it's around that.
Speaker 4: Area, that spot.
Speaker 3: So it definitely, yeah, you can recognize. I always thought
Speaker 3: you always don't seem to paddle that well when I'm
Speaker 3: in this in this area, and I'm thinking that it's
Speaker 3: got to be something to do with that, because that's
Speaker 3: a part of you know, you're seeing people in some
Speaker 3: pretty bad situations, you know. And the other thing too, though,
Speaker 3: is what people don't realize. People jumping off the gap,
Speaker 3: which is one hundred meters or two hundred depending where
Speaker 3: you go off. Just because you jump off a cliff
Speaker 3: doesn't mean you're going to die instantly either.
Speaker 4: It all depends how you land. There's plenty.
Speaker 3: I've gone up and I've held on to them massive
Speaker 3: internal injuries, but they're alive, and you hold on until
Speaker 3: they die on your arms. And in that moment they
Speaker 3: know they're dying, they're saying, oh, can you tell my
Speaker 3: kids this, my mom and this my wife this and
Speaker 3: whatever the reason, and you become a part of that
Speaker 3: grieving process and it can be quite difficult in that
Speaker 3: pure and we deal with you know, a.
Speaker 4: Lot of that.
Speaker 3: And I think people think you jump off and they
Speaker 3: die in straight away, but doesn't. It all depends on
Speaker 3: what how you land. You'll have a good you have
Speaker 3: some good injuries. It doesn't mean you're going to know.
Speaker 3: And some people have survived as well in certain ways.
Speaker 3: But it's something that that's something that's pretty big for lifeguards,
Speaker 3: and a lot of people don't really realize. And the
Speaker 3: families want to come and see the people that are
Speaker 3: last with the loved ones.
Speaker 2: Of course, you need to become.
Speaker 4: Days and days and day grieving.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that can be hard, and that's why we
Speaker 3: brought in the mental side, so we now train because
Speaker 3: I didn't believe. I thought when I was dealing with
Speaker 3: a lot and a lot of the guys were dealing
Speaker 3: with it. You deal with it and then you get
Speaker 3: a counselor coming after it. And I thought, the damage
Speaker 3: is done, and so now we're training our minds that
Speaker 3: if you.
Speaker 4: And David did a lot of work.
Speaker 3: With the soldiers who went to Afghanistan and things from Australia,
Speaker 3: and he's trying this now to say, well, this is
Speaker 3: your job, this is what's going to happen. You work
Speaker 3: as a lifeguard, you're going to get all these things
Speaker 3: are going to happen. And he said, it's like when
Speaker 3: I explained to people that are going to war, you're
Speaker 3: all there, you're all mates. You could be there in
Speaker 3: his head to be.
Speaker 2: Blind, none of you. Some of you aren't coming home.
Speaker 2: That's and that's the way I dealt with it, right.
Speaker 2: I went into combat, into my operation thinking all of
Speaker 2: us aren't going to come home. I already prepared myself
Speaker 2: fifty percent. So when it did happen, and I'd done
Speaker 2: that by myself, but when it did happen, I was
Speaker 2: you know, I was already fifty percent there. So you
Speaker 2: know I was already fifty percent prepared and I could
Speaker 2: do the other fifty percent with the people in the room,
Speaker 2: my teammates, et cetera, et cetera. That's great that.
Speaker 3: It's the same sort of yeah, same mentality is that
Speaker 3: knowing that and preparing that that's going to happen, and
Speaker 3: also not just being your job you go it's out
Speaker 3: of our control, where just.
Speaker 2: Picking the pieces up try and control what you can't
Speaker 2: go to.
Speaker 3: That's trot and that's that's what we've been trying to
Speaker 3: work on with a lot of it, and especially younger guys,
Speaker 3: because it's harder for the younger guys. I mean, I'm
Speaker 3: lucky now, I've got the lot of experience and you're
Speaker 3: coming out of that and working on your own mind
Speaker 3: to get through that. But a young guy at twenty
Speaker 3: twenty one, yeah, you haven't got the experience to deal
Speaker 3: with that.
Speaker 2: Some that's in place, mate, because that will save lives,
Speaker 2: like you said, not in the sea, but on the
Speaker 2: other on the other side of the of the coin, mate,
Speaker 2: which is it's just deal with those other stuff.
Speaker 3: That people probably even know what lifeguards deal with. And
Speaker 3: you know it's the other side is great. You know,
Speaker 3: turn up to a beach every day, you get your
Speaker 3: training break, you go surfing, you go do what you Yeah,
Speaker 3: that side of it and meeting different people every day,
Speaker 3: and so there's a great side of being a lifeguard,
Speaker 3: but there's also that dark side as well that people
Speaker 3: don't know.
Speaker 2: And to wrap up on what's next for you, hopo
Speaker 2: another series? What you what you're doing?
Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll get another season out, another series and then
Speaker 3: continue on working. I mean, I'm fifty six now, so
Speaker 3: see how we having more years. I've got your body's.
Speaker 4: Keep going on. But look, I'm trying to other stuff with.
Speaker 4: I got my podcast. I've also got you know, the beach.
Speaker 2: Beach. Let's not forget that. Check out hops podcast. Life
Speaker 2: is a beach. I'll be checking out for sure. So mate,
Speaker 2: thanks you ever so much for coming on headgame. Mate,
Speaker 2: keep saving lives. That's all I can say. I know you,
Speaker 2: I can see you're passionate about I can see the
Speaker 2: emotion from what you were talking about, mate, And you're
Speaker 2: born to You're born to save lives, mate, so keep
Speaker 2: doing it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks for having me.
Speaker 3: It's been great and it's yeah, it's a passion that's
Speaker 3: in me, that saving lives is.
Speaker 4: That's probably what.
Speaker 2: Cheers Poppo has his own podcast. It's called Life's a Beach.
Speaker 2: If you'd like to check it out, our link the
Speaker 2: details in the show notes. Thanks for listening to this
Speaker 2: episode of head Game. If you enjoyed it, please leave
Speaker 2: me a review. I'm at Middleton. Catch you in the
Speaker 2: next episode.