1
00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:08,080
Speaker 1: From the Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

2
00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:14,600
Speaker 1: It's Friday, March thirteen, twenty twenty six. Don't look down

3
00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:18,280
Speaker 1: your nose at patriotism. That's the blunt message to Labor

4
00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:22,600
Speaker 1: from one of its own stars. South Australian Premier Peter Malanowskis.

5
00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:26,160
Speaker 1: He's seeking reelection at the March twenty one state election

6
00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:30,680
Speaker 1: where one nation is polling strongly, and Malanowskis says Labor

7
00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:37,240
Speaker 1: must respect voters with fears about housing and immigration. Two years,

8
00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:40,760
Speaker 1: five hundred gigabytes of audio and more than two hundred

9
00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:45,560
Speaker 1: voice actors, The Australian's podcast adaptation of Headley Thomas's best

10
00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:49,240
Speaker 1: selling book Sick to Death is nearing its conclusion. It's

11
00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:52,200
Speaker 1: the story of the havoc wrought on the Queensland medical

12
00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:56,400
Speaker 1: system by the incompetent surgeon Jayant Patel twenty years ago.

13
00:00:56,800 --> 00:01:00,760
Speaker 1: And there's still more to come. Today and our production

14
00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:04,839
Speaker 1: team get together to discuss this epic project and why

15
00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:20,440
Speaker 1: it still resonates. In twenty twenty six, The Australian's national

16
00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:24,319
Speaker 1: Chief correspondent, Hedley Thomas was walking among the mango trees

17
00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,080
Speaker 1: at his Brisbane home. When I called him to ask

18
00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:29,840
Speaker 1: what he was working on. It was late twenty twenty

19
00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:32,560
Speaker 1: two and Hedley had taken some leave to work on

20
00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:37,000
Speaker 1: his book about his blockbuster investigation, The Teacher's Pet. Headley

21
00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:40,200
Speaker 1: suggested we bring to audio one of his earlier books,

22
00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:44,720
Speaker 1: Sick to Death. Well, we've published sixteen whopping episodes so far,

23
00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:48,720
Speaker 1: with two more bonus episodes to come. Today, Hedley and

24
00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:51,400
Speaker 1: I are sitting down with our audio lead, Jasper League,

25
00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:55,600
Speaker 1: senior producer Kristin Amiot, and producer Karina Berger to talk

26
00:01:55,640 --> 00:02:05,240
Speaker 1: about this huge undertaking. I should know by now to

27
00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:08,160
Speaker 1: expect that when Headley Thomas calls up with an idea

28
00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:09,760
Speaker 1: that he says is going to be quite simple, that

29
00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:12,200
Speaker 1: it's actually not going to be anything of the sort.

30
00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:14,680
Speaker 1: He said that about Shandy's story, which turned into an

31
00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,839
Speaker 1: epic multi season investigative podcast, and he said the same

32
00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:20,320
Speaker 1: thing about Sick to Death. It's a bit of a hybrid.

33
00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:23,839
Speaker 1: It's an audiobook with a full cast acting out all

34
00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:27,800
Speaker 1: of the two hundred plus roles in this book. But

35
00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:32,399
Speaker 1: it's also true to the traditions of true crime podcasting,

36
00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:35,959
Speaker 1: with follow a journalist unraveling the truth about a big scandal,

37
00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:39,840
Speaker 1: in this case Headley's reporting on the activities of doctor

38
00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:43,200
Speaker 1: j And Patel, a surgeon who tricked his way through

39
00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:46,399
Speaker 1: Queensland Health in the beginning of the twenty first century.

40
00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,160
Speaker 1: Heavy I think this would have been a smaller undertaking

41
00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:52,079
Speaker 1: if we've done what a lot of audiobooks do, which

42
00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:54,400
Speaker 1: is just have you read the whole thing? Why did

43
00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:56,480
Speaker 1: you want this to be a full cast production?

44
00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:59,640
Speaker 2: Have you tried to do an Indian accent?

45
00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:01,360
Speaker 3: No?

46
00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:02,320
Speaker 1: I would never do anything.

47
00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:07,000
Speaker 2: All jokes aside, it would have been very challenging and

48
00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:09,720
Speaker 2: I don't think very satisfying for listeners to have heard

49
00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:14,800
Speaker 2: just my voice droning on hour after hour trying to

50
00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:19,840
Speaker 2: voice act for the nurses and doctors and administrators, and

51
00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:23,320
Speaker 2: of course for doctor Ftel and other overseas trained doctors,

52
00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:27,239
Speaker 2: the judges and victims, and nurse Tony Hoffman. I mean,

53
00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:30,440
Speaker 2: there were so many people who were part of this,

54
00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:35,000
Speaker 2: and I think that while incredibly ambitious by us to

55
00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:39,680
Speaker 2: involve I don't know how many voice actors were there

56
00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:41,600
Speaker 2: more than one hundred, more than two hundred.

57
00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:44,480
Speaker 3: I think that if we can insult the spreadsheet that

58
00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:47,080
Speaker 3: was made very early in the piece, there's definitely more

59
00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:52,280
Speaker 3: than two hundred lines in that spreadsheet. There is our

60
00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:55,280
Speaker 3: wonderful colleagues here at The Australian who have been pulled

61
00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:58,240
Speaker 3: off the newsroom floor more than once to come and

62
00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:01,720
Speaker 3: do voice acting for us. There are my parents, my partner,

63
00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:06,720
Speaker 3: Jasper's partner, Claire's kids, everybody who fit the bill for

64
00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:08,960
Speaker 3: one of those characters appears in this series.

65
00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:11,360
Speaker 1: One of my children actually got sacked from her role

66
00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:14,480
Speaker 1: in this production because of Headley's incredibly high, i would say,

67
00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:16,720
Speaker 1: potentially unreasonable standards.

68
00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:20,719
Speaker 4: I know that details matter to Headley, and having worked

69
00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:23,839
Speaker 4: in a couple of investigations with him now, and I

70
00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:26,520
Speaker 4: think this particular story is so epic it deserved an

71
00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:29,279
Speaker 4: epic treatment in podcast form as well.

72
00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:32,840
Speaker 1: I did devour the book, but as always, my much

73
00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:36,400
Speaker 1: more meticulous and forensic partner in crime, Christian Amiet, who's

74
00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:38,479
Speaker 1: the producer of the Front and also the producer of

75
00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:42,640
Speaker 1: this podcast, digested the book with all of her intellect

76
00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:46,880
Speaker 1: and attention, and she was desperate to find out what

77
00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:49,520
Speaker 1: had happened at the Curry Bizarre, what was going on

78
00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:50,320
Speaker 1: with Kristen.

79
00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:54,400
Speaker 3: This is something that our listeners will have heard by

80
00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:57,800
Speaker 3: this point that when I was going through the book,

81
00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:00,000
Speaker 3: and I think I was actually lulled into that saying

82
00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:04,039
Speaker 3: sense of security about this project as Headley when he

83
00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:07,760
Speaker 3: first pitched it, because we had just come off the

84
00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:11,040
Speaker 3: back of, as Headley said, the Teacher's Pet, we'd done

85
00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:14,640
Speaker 3: two inquiries off the back of Shandy's story Headley's other

86
00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:18,440
Speaker 3: investigative podcast. We had been probably for the better part

87
00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:22,520
Speaker 3: of two years at the Mercy of legal proceedings, where

88
00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:26,360
Speaker 3: the work is happening in the background of a very

89
00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:30,839
Speaker 3: dense and very important legal proceeding. So I looked at it,

90
00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:34,120
Speaker 3: this four hundred page pdf, and went, when have we

91
00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:38,520
Speaker 3: ever had the full story there to just record? And

92
00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:40,839
Speaker 3: then when I got to the point of sitting down

93
00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:42,440
Speaker 3: to read it, I thought, well, the first thing I've

94
00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:45,599
Speaker 3: got to do is extract the voice acting, And so

95
00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:48,279
Speaker 3: I started doing that, and I was pulling all of

96
00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:50,400
Speaker 3: these lines out every time I came across a new

97
00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:52,320
Speaker 3: character or a new line for somebody who I had

98
00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:54,520
Speaker 3: already met in the past. I'd put it into this

99
00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,720
Speaker 3: gigantic spreadsheet that now barely even loads because there are

100
00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,720
Speaker 3: so many lines and characters in it. But I kept

101
00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:04,360
Speaker 3: seeing these references to some sort of incident that happened

102
00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:07,440
Speaker 3: at the Curry Bizarre, and I was saying to you, guys,

103
00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:10,479
Speaker 3: I'm not getting to this fast enough. I have to

104
00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,880
Speaker 3: know what happened at the Curry Bizarre. And it's really

105
00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:17,400
Speaker 3: it doesn't appear until quite late in the series, but

106
00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:20,599
Speaker 3: it is. It's quite scandalous when it does appear. I

107
00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:24,840
Speaker 3: did think it was actually a really great encapsulation of

108
00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:28,760
Speaker 3: the failures of the Queensland Health bureaucracy in this story

109
00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:33,840
Speaker 3: and elsewhere, because that when whistleblowers like Tony Hoffman were

110
00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:37,360
Speaker 3: saying trying to raise their concerns with the higher ups,

111
00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:40,640
Speaker 3: with hospital administrators, there was nobody to be found, or

112
00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:43,599
Speaker 3: she was told repeatedly, everything's okay, don't worry about it.

113
00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:45,920
Speaker 3: You just go back to being a nurse. And then

114
00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:48,120
Speaker 3: as soon as they looked bad, or as soon as

115
00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:50,320
Speaker 3: they had an opportunity to make the people who had

116
00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:54,000
Speaker 3: exposed this scandal look bad, all of a sudden, affidavits

117
00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,920
Speaker 3: and statements were coming from every direction. Karina Burger is

118
00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:00,839
Speaker 3: an eminent lawyer in her own right now she's putting

119
00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:03,080
Speaker 3: her toe into the murky world of journalism.

120
00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:06,440
Speaker 1: She's working with Headley and ass as a producer. Now, Karina,

121
00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:10,080
Speaker 1: you had skin in this particular game too. You happened

122
00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:12,640
Speaker 1: to be an expert in overseas trained doctors. How did

123
00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:13,080
Speaker 1: that happen?

124
00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:14,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, I did, Claire.

125
00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:15,840
Speaker 2: It's a funny story.

126
00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:18,200
Speaker 5: Back in two thousand and five, I was trying to

127
00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:20,720
Speaker 5: wrap up my law degree and get an honors degree

128
00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:24,640
Speaker 5: at the same time, and my supervisor desperately wanted me

129
00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:28,080
Speaker 5: to do a thesis on pharmaceutical pricing and I couldn't

130
00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:31,160
Speaker 5: think of anything worse and spending six months of my

131
00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:34,840
Speaker 5: life on that topic. So I politely declined and said, no,

132
00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:37,200
Speaker 5: I need something with more of a human element. And

133
00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:41,160
Speaker 5: he said, oh, there's this situation unfolding in Queensland involving

134
00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:45,480
Speaker 5: an overseeings trained doctor, and how about you examine the

135
00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:49,520
Speaker 5: regulation of those doctors, using doctor Patel as a case study.

136
00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:52,640
Speaker 5: And so that was how I spent half of two

137
00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:58,680
Speaker 5: thousand and five researching and closely following Headley's articles. And

138
00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:01,640
Speaker 5: I remember getting so frustrated towards the end because I

139
00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:04,320
Speaker 5: had to turn in my paper and Heady just kept

140
00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:08,880
Speaker 5: on posting articles day after day, which necessitated me updating

141
00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:11,200
Speaker 5: everything day after day, and I just had to draw

142
00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:12,960
Speaker 5: a line in the sand at one point and think

143
00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:17,480
Speaker 5: I've done. But yeah, it's really strange now, twenty years

144
00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:20,440
Speaker 5: later to be working with Headley and to have had

145
00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:22,720
Speaker 5: a small amount of involvement in the Sick to Death

146
00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:23,720
Speaker 5: podcast series.

147
00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:27,120
Speaker 2: But we didn't have any contact then. In fact, we

148
00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:31,320
Speaker 2: didn't have any contact at all until twenty twenty four

149
00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:35,000
Speaker 2: when you wrote to us saying I love podcast. Can

150
00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:35,960
Speaker 2: I help in some way?

151
00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:38,679
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's right, And I did not think it would

152
00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:41,720
Speaker 5: end up involving Doc to Death and Sick to Death

153
00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:42,440
Speaker 5: not at all.

154
00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:45,880
Speaker 1: What's it been like stepping into this story and you,

155
00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:48,440
Speaker 1: along with Kristen and our reporter Sarah Elks, have been

156
00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:50,920
Speaker 1: writing some of the stories that have been accompanying the

157
00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:54,120
Speaker 1: role out of this show Sick to Death. What's it

158
00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:57,679
Speaker 1: been like participating and observing this story now from a

159
00:08:57,760 --> 00:08:58,880
Speaker 1: journalistic point of view?

160
00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:03,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, a different process because obviously now my role is

161
00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:07,640
Speaker 5: more about storytelling and less about legal analysis. But the

162
00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:10,800
Speaker 5: legal issues are still really relevant, and Headley and I

163
00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:13,400
Speaker 5: have been working very closely on those over the last

164
00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:16,240
Speaker 5: few days to prepare the final episode or two of

165
00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:20,720
Speaker 5: the podcast. But I suppose this storytelling function is a

166
00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:26,680
Speaker 5: different one to critically analyzing the law and critically analyzing

167
00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:29,360
Speaker 5: all the regulation of the doctors, and there's more of

168
00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:32,400
Speaker 5: a human element. I've been speaking with people like Tony Hoffman,

169
00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:35,040
Speaker 5: which is just amazing given I was writing about her

170
00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:38,360
Speaker 5: twenty years ago. To actually have a phone call with

171
00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:40,959
Speaker 5: her and get a better sense of who she is

172
00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:43,680
Speaker 5: as a person has just been incredible. But of course

173
00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:46,520
Speaker 5: now what we know twenty years on is the effect

174
00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,560
Speaker 5: that the whistleblowing has really had on her and her life,

175
00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:54,839
Speaker 5: and I've found that really upsetting, to be honest, coming.

176
00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:58,160
Speaker 1: Up why this shocking story is more relevant than ever

177
00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:01,559
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty six. While I've got you, I wanted

178
00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:03,760
Speaker 1: to let you know you can listen to every episode

179
00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:06,680
Speaker 1: of Sick to Death and all the Australians Award winning

180
00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:11,760
Speaker 1: podcasts for free this weekend. That includes subscriber only bonus

181
00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:15,320
Speaker 1: episodes and new episodes of Stick to Death. Plus you

182
00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,840
Speaker 1: can experience all the Australians journalism for free across our

183
00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:22,200
Speaker 1: website and app. Check us out at the Australian dot

184
00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:35,760
Speaker 1: com dot au and we'll be back after the break. Jasper.

185
00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:38,840
Speaker 1: This was a truly epic production. You and I have

186
00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:42,120
Speaker 1: talked on the front before about podcasting and audio as

187
00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:46,199
Speaker 1: a very human medium and why we believe, without any

188
00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:49,000
Speaker 1: self interest at all, that audiences want to hear human voices,

189
00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:53,199
Speaker 1: human stories. This is a very human story. What's been

190
00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:55,440
Speaker 1: your kind of reflection on this, even as you were

191
00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:58,319
Speaker 1: going through the ordeal of making this massive show, which

192
00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:02,280
Speaker 1: is like conducting a symphony, on what the story is

193
00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:04,280
Speaker 1: actually about, what it means?

194
00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:08,880
Speaker 4: Well, I think to make the comparison with a conductor

195
00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:11,800
Speaker 4: who's sounding up there in front of a symphony, the

196
00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:13,960
Speaker 4: point is to be up there, immersing yourself in the music.

197
00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:16,600
Speaker 4: It's not to be worried about what the second violins playing,

198
00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:18,440
Speaker 4: or if the viola player is going to play the

199
00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:22,000
Speaker 4: melody in tune or something. And so I think, of course,

200
00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:23,920
Speaker 4: there are a lot of moving parts with a project

201
00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:26,359
Speaker 4: like this, and from a technical point of view, it's ambitious,

202
00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:31,160
Speaker 4: but it would be a missed opportunity to get too

203
00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:35,480
Speaker 4: bogged down in that without really appreciating the story and

204
00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:40,480
Speaker 4: kind of living in it in a way. And there

205
00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:44,400
Speaker 4: were so many things I reflected on working on this podcast.

206
00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:49,800
Speaker 4: I mean one of them was I would just hate

207
00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:52,040
Speaker 4: to do the wrong thing and find myself in Heavily

208
00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:57,319
Speaker 4: Thomas's crosshairs. I mean, I also wondered whether Heavily had

209
00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:01,040
Speaker 4: ever written anything that hadn't resulted in a royal commission

210
00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:05,440
Speaker 4: or maybe the sort of key figure ending up behind bars.

211
00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:10,240
Speaker 4: But I think that is a testament to the writing

212
00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:15,520
Speaker 4: and the attention to detail, and how it was such

213
00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:17,400
Speaker 4: a fantastic world to live in for the couple of

214
00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:19,720
Speaker 4: years that I've been working on this show, and there's

215
00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:23,160
Speaker 4: so many incredible aspects to the story. There's so many

216
00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:27,400
Speaker 4: aspects of the storytelling that I appreciate, and the whole

217
00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:30,400
Speaker 4: thing is driven by such a fascinating cast of characters.

218
00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:35,720
Speaker 1: Chrissy, you're a podcast connoisseur, review podcasts, you're an expert.

219
00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:37,360
Speaker 1: You listen to more of them than anyone I know,

220
00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:39,920
Speaker 1: and of course you make podcasts here with us. What

221
00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:42,760
Speaker 1: was your sense of this as just in terms of

222
00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:44,680
Speaker 1: pure story and what it meant.

223
00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:52,280
Speaker 3: It was, actually, in my probably very unique experience, a

224
00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:55,480
Speaker 3: full circle moment again through the lens of Headley's reporting

225
00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:58,480
Speaker 3: that was done in two thousand and five two thousand

226
00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:01,600
Speaker 3: and six and the work that we had just done,

227
00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:07,280
Speaker 3: particularly on the two commissions of inquiry, into Queensland fraught

228
00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:10,920
Speaker 3: DNA lab and all of the issues that were going

229
00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:14,000
Speaker 3: on there and still are to some degree. You could

230
00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:16,559
Speaker 3: have taken either of those stories, which are very different

231
00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:20,640
Speaker 3: in their own right, and interchanged the problems with the bureaucracy,

232
00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:26,000
Speaker 3: the problems with secrecy, the problems with losing sight of

233
00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:29,200
Speaker 3: what this is all for, which is for Queenslanders, for

234
00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:32,720
Speaker 3: people who are unwell, who need help, for victims of crime.

235
00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:38,319
Speaker 3: So it's a pretty amazing view not only of Hedley's

236
00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:44,440
Speaker 3: reporting on health in Queensland and his obvious drive to

237
00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:50,160
Speaker 3: deliver public interest journalism for Queenslanders, but it's also a

238
00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:54,079
Speaker 3: cautionary tale for all of us. It's not a world

239
00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:56,640
Speaker 3: that I would want to find myself in, certainly, and

240
00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,079
Speaker 3: I think the more aware we can make people of it,

241
00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:01,960
Speaker 3: even years down the track, then we're all better for

242
00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:02,960
Speaker 3: it heavily.

243
00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:05,200
Speaker 1: Something I've learned about you is that you never let

244
00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:07,800
Speaker 1: a story go for good and bad. Sometimes I wish

245
00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:10,400
Speaker 1: you would allow us to wrap up season twenty four

246
00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:12,520
Speaker 1: of whatever shew it is that we're working on. But

247
00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:15,760
Speaker 1: you are tenacious like no one else. Do you feel

248
00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,520
Speaker 1: as though the story of Jant Patel is done?

249
00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:23,040
Speaker 2: Now the story of doctor Patel is going to be

250
00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:27,680
Speaker 2: repeated over and over again, but with different people, different doctors,

251
00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:33,040
Speaker 2: different health systems. And that's because systems improved for a

252
00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:35,840
Speaker 2: while after a catastrophe like the one we had in

253
00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:39,600
Speaker 2: two thousand and five and the lessons that came out

254
00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:42,880
Speaker 2: of the subsequent Commission of Inquiry and so on. But

255
00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:47,760
Speaker 2: then the bureaucracies and the politicians just revert back to

256
00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:50,680
Speaker 2: what they did very badly, what they did wickedly that

257
00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:53,600
Speaker 2: led to the catastrophe in the first place. And that's

258
00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:57,600
Speaker 2: why this story is so important again now twenty twenty

259
00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:03,560
Speaker 2: one years later, to remind people, whether they're the doctors, nurses,

260
00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:11,520
Speaker 2: patients and journalists, that this happens, and that just because

261
00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:14,280
Speaker 2: this is two decades doesn't mean it won't happen again.

262
00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:19,560
Speaker 2: It will happen again. There will be across Australia now unqualified,

263
00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:24,680
Speaker 2: incompetent and even fraudulent practitioners, and we have to be

264
00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:28,119
Speaker 2: on the alert and we have to demand higher standards

265
00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:32,040
Speaker 2: because if we don't, and that goes for reporters as well,

266
00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:37,000
Speaker 2: who are questioning systems and bureaucrats, the norm will continue.

267
00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:43,200
Speaker 2: For me, reading my book, again and reading it into

268
00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:48,960
Speaker 2: a microphone as the narrator. It was a really good experience.

269
00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:52,080
Speaker 2: I had forgotten so much of what went on, and

270
00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:57,080
Speaker 2: I think that because the story also is interwoven with

271
00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:01,200
Speaker 2: events in the newsroom that I worked in at the time.

272
00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:08,040
Speaker 2: It's intermingled with stories about my family and professional and

273
00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:13,640
Speaker 2: personal friends. It's a really significant trip down memory lane too,

274
00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:16,160
Speaker 2: and it was very touching and moving at times, and

275
00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:20,960
Speaker 2: particularly in two thousand and five, as right near the

276
00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:24,920
Speaker 2: pointy end of the health inquiry and all of the

277
00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:29,640
Speaker 2: events that we were reporting on so carefully and closely

278
00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:33,800
Speaker 2: back then, and my own mum, Diana, became very sick

279
00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:36,080
Speaker 2: and was in a public hospital on the Gold Coast,

280
00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:38,960
Speaker 2: and I was feeling quite guilty that I hadn't been

281
00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:42,000
Speaker 2: spending nearly as much time with her as I should have,

282
00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:46,280
Speaker 2: and that was partly because of well significantly because of

283
00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:50,400
Speaker 2: the commitments to this case and this story. And we

284
00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:53,320
Speaker 2: had young children at the time as well, and Mum

285
00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:58,240
Speaker 2: died right at the time of the release of the

286
00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:02,800
Speaker 2: final report in late October two thousand and five. She

287
00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:08,040
Speaker 2: died in hospital, and I understood in a very personal

288
00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:13,919
Speaker 2: way how shattering a sudden and unexplained death in a

289
00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:18,800
Speaker 2: public hospital setting can be it b all home far

290
00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:19,600
Speaker 2: too personally.

291
00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:24,359
Speaker 1: I think it reinforces the role of a journalist. When

292
00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:27,679
Speaker 1: people are themselves in the middle of grief, they're not

293
00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:32,920
Speaker 1: in the right place to be pursuing answers or pursuing justice,

294
00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:36,800
Speaker 1: and their judgment might be clouded. That's the role that

295
00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:39,240
Speaker 1: we as journalists play, to come in and be dispassionate

296
00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:42,080
Speaker 1: and be dog good in a way that you were Headley.

297
00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:45,960
Speaker 1: It's been a wonderful adventure. So thank you guys, and

298
00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:49,680
Speaker 1: we'll just look out for Headley's next big idea.

299
00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,159
Speaker 3: After a long and well deserved break.

300
00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:57,080
Speaker 2: Thank you again for making it happen. This book although

301
00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:00,359
Speaker 2: by Australian standards in two thousand and seven and was

302
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:05,359
Speaker 2: a best seller, the numbers of sales are minuscule compared

303
00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:11,200
Speaker 2: with the listeners and the interest from the public who

304
00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:15,119
Speaker 2: follow us now and want to listen to our podcasts.

305
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:20,720
Speaker 2: And therefore taking a very powerful and important case, a

306
00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:24,320
Speaker 2: case study of a sick health system, and turning that

307
00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:29,720
Speaker 2: into an audio production twenty years later, so that it's

308
00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:34,200
Speaker 2: heard for the first time by many, many people, millions

309
00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:37,439
Speaker 2: of people that will end up being ultimately over months

310
00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:42,440
Speaker 2: and years. That's something that is really important. Maybe fifteen

311
00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:46,760
Speaker 2: minutes before we started recording for this conversation, I finished

312
00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:51,640
Speaker 2: listening to episode sixteen, the last one in the series

313
00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:55,639
Speaker 2: that's based on the book, and I got to the end,

314
00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:59,400
Speaker 2: I just thought, Oh, my god, that was just such

315
00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:03,560
Speaker 2: an achievement, and by you all, and you in particular Jasper,

316
00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:08,520
Speaker 2: having pulled together so much material, done thousands of edits,

317
00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:13,320
Speaker 2: and I know Kristen and Steph wrangled a huge number

318
00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:17,240
Speaker 2: of voice actors. I was really moved, and I just

319
00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:19,600
Speaker 2: want to thank you all because I think you've done

320
00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:22,720
Speaker 2: a stellar job. It was so much bigger than I

321
00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:24,960
Speaker 2: thought it would be when Claire and I first talked

322
00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:28,520
Speaker 2: about it, and now we're pretty much there, we're done.

323
00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:31,359
Speaker 4: It's really lovely to hear. I mean, it's funny to

324
00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:35,160
Speaker 4: think that we ever thought that this would be anything

325
00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,320
Speaker 4: other than an enormous amount of work. You know, it's

326
00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:41,399
Speaker 4: turning a three hundred and fifty page plus book into

327
00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:45,919
Speaker 4: a podcast. I think when I first heard about it,

328
00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,879
Speaker 4: I wasn't one of the people who thought, oh, this

329
00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:52,520
Speaker 4: should be easy enough. Five panics actually, but I agree

330
00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:56,000
Speaker 4: if it feels like a really huge achievement to get

331
00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:59,240
Speaker 4: to the finish line. I think from the very beginning

332
00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:02,359
Speaker 4: it was a very ambitious undertaking and so to have

333
00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:04,239
Speaker 4: landed here is something to be proud of for all

334
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:05,000
Speaker 4: of us.

335
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:07,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we've got two hundred and fifty unemployed voice

336
00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:12,840
Speaker 1: actors ready to go and Jaspers available to help. Thanks everyone,

337
00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:18,840
Speaker 1: Sick to Death is live now wherever you listen. Our

338
00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:22,520
Speaker 1: team on the show also included Stephanie Coombs, Leat Sammaglu,

339
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:26,840
Speaker 1: Slade Gibson, Sarah Elks, Neil Sutherland and many more. Normally

340
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:30,640
Speaker 1: we publish episodes early for our subscribers, and this weekend

341
00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:34,080
Speaker 1: March fourteen and fifteen, new visitors to be Australian dot

342
00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:37,160
Speaker 1: com dot au can listen to every episode for free,

343
00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:40,600
Speaker 1: along with all our journalism. It's open house at The

344
00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,360
Speaker 1: Australian and we'd love you to come and sample all

345
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:47,160
Speaker 1: our reporting from politics and crime to entertainment and culture.

346
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:50,439
Speaker 1: Check us out at the Australian dot com dot au