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Speaker 1: Approache production.

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Speaker 2: This episode contains detailed discussion of sexual abuse, child sexual exploitation,

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Speaker 2: human trafficking, and grooming. Listener discretion is strongly advised. Welcome

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Speaker 2: to Secrets of the Underworld. I am Neil the Muscle

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Speaker 2: Cumments and in this episode, I speak with Hailey Robson,

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Speaker 2: a survivor of Jeffrey Epstein.

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Speaker 1: I went to Jeffrey's house with the intentions and expectations

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Speaker 1: of this man's going to help me start a new

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Speaker 1: life and I'm going to be okay. And Jeffrey came

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Speaker 1: out in a towel. He told me he was an astronaut.

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Speaker 1: And it wasn't until the court proceeding where I realized

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Speaker 1: this son of a bitch likes me about everything. All

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Speaker 1: of the underage girls and children in his network were

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Speaker 1: also having to go out and bring girls into his

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Speaker 1: orbit to benefit the system, to keep the wheels turning.

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Speaker 1: That was the abuse.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, Hailey Robinson for coming on my podcast.

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Speaker 2: I really appreciate your time and I really can't wait

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Speaker 2: to share your story. Like it was traumatic, but it's

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Speaker 2: one of these stories that it's a survival story, but

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Speaker 2: it's also needs to be shared for other people who

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Speaker 2: have gone through.

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Speaker 3: Kind of the same ordeal that you have.

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Speaker 2: You know, if it can help one person in any

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Speaker 2: aspect of this world, then I'd like it to be

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Speaker 2: that they listened to on this podcast and you were

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Speaker 2: the one who inspired them to come forward and get help.

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Speaker 1: Well, thank you for having me. It's definitely been quite

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Speaker 1: the journey. We've lost six months, a lot of ups

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Speaker 1: and downs, and it's been a roller coaster.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I can, I bet you it has.

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Speaker 2: Before we get into everything, I'd like to get to

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Speaker 2: know you as a person first, before everything happened, like

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Speaker 2: growing up, family, schooling, and all like that, so I

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Speaker 2: can get to know you as a person.

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Speaker 1: So originally I'm from my me So. I grew up

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Speaker 1: in Miami, Florida, North Dade. I have two older sisters.

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Speaker 1: My dad, I ironically, was a robbery and a homicide detective,

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Speaker 1: and my mom was in the banking industry. I went

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Speaker 1: to elementary school with my middle sister and my older sister,

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Speaker 1: she's about seven years older than me. She went to

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Speaker 1: high school down there. And I had a great childhood.

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Speaker 1: The first couple of years of my life were fantastic.

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Speaker 1: I was on swim team, I did girl Scouts, I

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Speaker 1: had horses, we did equestrian We traveled a lot as

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Speaker 1: a family because my sister, she was in dance, but

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Speaker 1: she was very advanced, so she would do recitals all

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Speaker 1: over the state of Florida New York. So we would travel,

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Speaker 1: and I had no complaint with My childhood was what

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Speaker 1: you would think, a wonderful childhood. And then everything kind

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Speaker 1: of shifted, and not shift happened when we moved from

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Speaker 1: I think I was twelve and we moved from Miami

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Speaker 1: to West Palm Beach. And when I say we moved

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Speaker 1: to West Palm Beach in South Florida, we moved to

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Speaker 1: like the six the back was like it was a

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Speaker 1: very big cultural shock.

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Speaker 2: So I'm just trying to pitch it because I lived

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Speaker 2: for a little bit of my time when I was

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Speaker 2: seventeen in Sarasota.

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Speaker 3: So how far away is that.

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Speaker 1: It's about three to four hour drive from where I

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Speaker 1: live currently. But you know, it was a cultural shock

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Speaker 1: because I was so used to that city life of

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Speaker 1: like Miami and then going to like and high school

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Speaker 1: was great in the very very beginning, and I started

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Speaker 1: hanging out with, you know, older people because I had

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Speaker 1: older sisters and I started kind of living a fast

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Speaker 1: light and I didn't have the best people around me.

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Speaker 1: I didn't have a lot of good influences. And to

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Speaker 1: be honest, you know, when you put several teenagers in

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Speaker 1: the same room together, it's going to be chaos. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's never going to be a good idea to leave

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Speaker 1: teenagers alone together Inevitably. What happened was I went to

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Speaker 1: Royal Palm Beach High School and I was at a

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Speaker 1: beach resort with some of my girlfriends. I was sixteen,

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Speaker 1: and I was recruited to work for Jeffrey by another

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Speaker 1: sixteen year old classmate and a twenty year old man

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Speaker 1: who just during this investigation I learned was Virginia jiphraised

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Speaker 1: boyfriend Tony figureo Us and I was asked if I wanted,

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Speaker 1: you know, to give this older gentleman a massage, it

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Speaker 1: would just be a quick two hundred dollars, and I

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Speaker 1: exchanged information with her. I gave her my phone number,

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Speaker 1: and within a week I picked her up. I picked

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Speaker 1: the adult male Tony up and we drove to Jeffrey's

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Speaker 1: house on Palm Beach Island, and in the car ride there,

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Speaker 1: they told me that it would just be a massage.

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Speaker 1: I would possibly have to do it in my underwear,

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Speaker 1: which would be the same as like a bikini as

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Speaker 1: how he explained it to me. So at that point

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Speaker 1: I really didn't see any real issues At that point,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you're talking about a sixteen year old girl,

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Speaker 1: you know, massage braw underwear kind of resembles a bikini.

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Speaker 1: And by that time I was sixteen. I had already

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Speaker 1: been sexually abused at thirteen, and I had been raped

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Speaker 1: at fifteen, which is fifteen with my first sexual experience

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Speaker 1: with a man, and he was twenty one or twenty two.

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Speaker 1: I was fifteen and he had raped me, and that

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Speaker 1: was really traumatic for me, and I started for like

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Speaker 1: I said, hang out with different people and start drugs.

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Speaker 1: I started drinking heavily. So that day at that resort,

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Speaker 1: I exchanged information. I said, Wow, this would be a

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Speaker 1: great opportunity for me to make money to get out

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Speaker 1: of West Palm Beach. And what a lot of people

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Speaker 1: don't know about my race is that it wasn't just

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Speaker 1: the rape. It was what he did after me, which

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Speaker 1: was really really hard for me, and majority of why

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Speaker 1: I wanted to get out of West Palm after I

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Speaker 1: had experienced the rape. I was still naked, I was

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Speaker 1: laying on the bed, I was crying, and his friend

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Speaker 1: came in the room and his friend started laughing at

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Speaker 1: me because he ripped me and I was, you know, bleeding.

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Speaker 1: After that, I was followed and harassed by his friend.

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Speaker 1: At my job I worked at Olive Garden when I

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Speaker 1: was sixteen. He would find me at the gym, and

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Speaker 1: it just got to a point where I felt uncomfortable

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Speaker 1: in every space I was entering. And I went to

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Speaker 1: Jeffrey's house with the intentions and expectations of this man's

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Speaker 1: going to help me start a new life and get

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Speaker 1: away from my rapists, and I'm going to be okay.

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Speaker 1: And when I got to Jeffrey's house with those two individuals,

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Speaker 1: I was met by his assistant, and his assistant brought

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Speaker 1: me upstairs and Jeffrey came out in a towel, laid

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Speaker 1: down on the massage table, and it started off as

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Speaker 1: exactly what was told to me, which was a massage,

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Speaker 1: and then he flipped over and that's when things took

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Speaker 1: a really bad turn, and I just remember him grabbing

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Speaker 1: me so hard on my backside, and at this point

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Speaker 1: I was in my underwear and bra and when he

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Speaker 1: grabbed me on my backside, it was so hard that

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Speaker 1: it like drew me closer in to him into the

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Speaker 1: massage table. And he tried put his hands in places

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Speaker 1: and in areas that you know you should not put them.

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Speaker 1: You know, he suctually abused me for that whole hour.

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Speaker 3: Would he ask or will he just do?

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Speaker 1: No, it was just doing it. It was just doing it,

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Speaker 1: like it happened so fast, Like he never asked me

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Speaker 1: to grab my butt. He just grabbed me. And when

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Speaker 1: he tried to stick his hands down there in my vagina,

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Speaker 1: you know, he didn't ask me then, which was really weird.

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Speaker 1: As he brought out this, he said it was a

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Speaker 1: sex toy, but it didn't look like a sex toy

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Speaker 1: to me. Again, this is coming from a sixteen year

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Speaker 1: old girl, and at sixteen, I didn't experience sex toys.

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Speaker 1: But it was come to find out, it was one

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Speaker 1: of those massages you would buy from like Brookstone. And

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Speaker 1: he was trying to stick that and use it on me,

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Speaker 1: and I got very uncomfortable and I was like, uh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's not going inside me, Like there's just no way,

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Speaker 1: and I said no, And the look of disappointment and

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Speaker 1: shock on his face. At that moment, I kept thinking

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Speaker 1: to myself, if I run for the door, is it

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Speaker 1: going to be locked? And if I'm up here and

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Speaker 1: the adult are downstairs, if I scream, is anybody going

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Speaker 1: to actually hear me? Or is nobody going to hear me?

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Speaker 1: Like what's going to happen? So at that point, he

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Speaker 1: made me do things to him as he masturbated and

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Speaker 1: finished on the table and he was I rate. He

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Speaker 1: looked at me and said, you know what, just bring

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Speaker 1: me a friend. Every time you come here, you're going

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Speaker 1: to have to come back. So at that point I

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Speaker 1: was still trying to process what just happened. I was

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Speaker 1: trying to figure out how the hell am I getting

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Speaker 1: out of here? So I made you know a judgment

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Speaker 1: on survival and I said, okay, I heard you. And

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Speaker 1: that day I left. I was hoping to ever hear

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Speaker 1: from him ever again. And his assistant was calling me

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Speaker 1: and texting me every day, you have to bring a

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Speaker 1: girl like Jeffrey wants you to come back. So I

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Speaker 1: was with him for two years and it's a terrifying

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Speaker 1: situation to be in at eighteen years old. I then

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Speaker 1: moved out of the county. At eighteen, I realized, I

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Speaker 1: don't have to live at home. I'm eighteen, I'm an adult. Now.

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Speaker 1: I can move anywhere I want. I can get as

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Speaker 1: far away from him. And of course, in my mind,

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Speaker 1: I knew deep down there would be retributions. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I didn't know for sure, but I was willing to

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Speaker 1: take that bet for me to get out, and I did.

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Speaker 1: At eighteen, I got out. I moved to Orlando, Florida.

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Speaker 1: But when I got away from Jeffrey, at that point,

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Speaker 1: when I was eighteen, the police had already been investigating them,

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Speaker 1: I think since two thousand and two. And the last

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Speaker 1: girl that I brought to Jeffrey's house, her mom called

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Speaker 1: the police, and it was this ordeal and I got

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Speaker 1: caught up up And the day that I left, Jeffrey

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Speaker 1: called my house and spoke to my father. I don't

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Speaker 1: know what that conversation was like, because my mom said

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Speaker 1: my dad would never talk about it. He answered the

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Speaker 1: phone when Jeffrey called and screamed, gon't ever call here again.

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Speaker 1: My dad ended up passing away last year from glioblastoma,

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Speaker 1: so his memory, his motor skills, everything like that went

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Speaker 1: out the window. Very very fast, so I didn't have

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Speaker 1: an opportunity really to sit down and have that conversation

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Speaker 1: and closure with him. And then this is the retribution.

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Speaker 1: When I left him, my boyfriend was murdered in broad daylight.

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Speaker 1: Shortly after I left him, I moved to Orlando, and

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Speaker 1: then my house got broken into. So I've never connected

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Speaker 1: any of this to Jeffrey because I don't really do

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Speaker 1: conspiracy theories. I like facts, I like evidence, I like stories,

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Speaker 1: I liked information, and so I never connected it because

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Speaker 1: it just seemed really far fetched. But as we're all

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Speaker 1: sitting back and we're watching these files be exposed, and

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Speaker 1: you see the amount of malevolence and violence and evil,

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Speaker 1: and you're talking child sacrifices and death, it's really dark.

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Speaker 1: You start to imagine what it would be like if

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Speaker 1: you found out that this person was responsible for breaking

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Speaker 1: into your house, for killing your boyfriends. What everybody in

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Speaker 1: the public eye what they're seeing now with the Epstein

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Speaker 1: files being released, this is what the survivors are seeing

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Speaker 1: for the first time as well. So as the public

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Speaker 1: is reading all these files and going through all this information,

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Speaker 1: all the survivors and victims are seeing this for the

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Speaker 1: first time as well, and we're trying to process what's

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Speaker 1: going on. I mean, none of us knew that there

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Speaker 1: were child sacrifices. None of us knew that kids were

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Speaker 1: being murdered, or that there was Pizzagate. Remember ten years ago,

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Speaker 1: this was all conspiracy theories, and you know, nobody really

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Speaker 1: believed that Pizzagate was real or that they were really

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Speaker 1: sacrificing children and drinking adrena home. And you dabble into

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Speaker 1: the Epstein files and it's like right there in black

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Speaker 1: and white, and it's so horrendous and so evil. So

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Speaker 1: after I left Jeffrey and these things started to happen,

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Speaker 1: I got pulled into the legalities of the case. So

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Speaker 1: I was sixteen when I met Jeffrey. I was just

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Speaker 1: a child that he also abused. The problem that I

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Speaker 1: foresee with this whole situation is the lack of education

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Speaker 1: when it comes to trafficking, and it's really important. I

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Speaker 1: don't know why enough people or enough victims and survivors

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Speaker 1: aren't bringing this to light. And I know I'm probably

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Speaker 1: going to get a lot of criticism for this, but

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Speaker 1: this is the truth, and this is a part of

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Speaker 1: the story that is the diabolical part, and I know

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Speaker 1: I'm going to get a lot of backlasher this, but

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Speaker 1: I got to say the quiet part out loud in Florida.

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Speaker 1: And I'm only speaking on Florida because I was only

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Speaker 1: involved on a state level in Florida. The abuse was

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Speaker 1: bringing other girls to Jeffrey. That was the abuse. That

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Speaker 1: was the diabolical part. We all did it. All of

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Speaker 1: the underage girls and children in his network that he

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Speaker 1: was sexually abusing and raping, We're also having to go

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Speaker 1: out and bring girls, you know that they hung out

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Speaker 1: with their friends into his orbit. Systematically. That is how

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Speaker 1: the system worked, and it's been proven on a state

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Speaker 1: level that that is how the system works. That's how

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Speaker 1: Jeffrey was able to keep flying under the radar. That's

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Speaker 1: how Jeffrey was able to avoid prosecution for years and

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Speaker 1: years and years. That's how Jeffrey was able to maintain

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Speaker 1: the demand for his elite friends and for the people

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Speaker 1: that were named than those files that were abusing children.

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Speaker 1: So part of the grooming was we had to bring

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Speaker 1: something to benefit the system, to keep the wheels turning,

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Speaker 1: to keep it going. That was the abuse. And I've

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Speaker 1: come to a point I think in my life where

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Speaker 1: I realized that we were way in over our heads.

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Speaker 1: Like I don't think anybody, including the police department, including

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Speaker 1: some of our lawyers, I don't think they realized what

256
00:14:36,001 --> 00:14:38,241
Speaker 1: material was going to be in the files when they

257
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Speaker 1: released it, you know, because a lot of this didn't

258
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Speaker 1: come out in court documents because he was given a

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Speaker 1: plea deal, He was paid and bought prosecutors, you know,

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Speaker 1: members of Congress, and other individuals that helped him get

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00:14:51,921 --> 00:14:56,761
Speaker 1: by with very minimal accountability. Example would be like Acosta

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Speaker 1: a Costa took an eighty two page indictment from the FBI.

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Speaker 1: Maria Villanova wrote it. He took that squad, rushed it

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Speaker 1: and brought it down to two counts and procuring a prostitute,

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Speaker 1: which is horrendous because at fourteen, fifteen, sixteen years old

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Speaker 1: in America, you can't be a prostitute. You're not even

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Speaker 1: allowed to consent to sex. You're still a child. So

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Speaker 1: it goes back to the Florida case back in two

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Speaker 1: thousand and nine and how there were individuals enabling him

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Speaker 1: and basically he was paying people off, not only to

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Speaker 1: get a lesser sentence, he was paying police officers off

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Speaker 1: while he was abusing girls in jail. I mean, there

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Speaker 1: were cops that were standing outside of his room while

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Speaker 1: he was having sex, abusing, raping, raping girl, abusing girl.

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Speaker 1: And it's just it's the craziest thing. And that's a

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Speaker 1: part of the story that we don't talk about, is

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Speaker 1: that it wasn't just the sexual abuse that Jeffrey Epstein

278
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Speaker 1: put us through. His attorneys, come to find out, paid

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Speaker 1: private investigators to break into our homes to run us

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Speaker 1: off the road. I was followed several times when I

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Speaker 1: was working at the strip club. I was followed by

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Speaker 1: a car. And thank god, my dad, who was a

283
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Speaker 1: police officer, raised me to be assertive, and he always

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Speaker 1: taught me that in the event that somebody follows you

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Speaker 1: where you think that you might be being followed, you know,

286
00:16:24,001 --> 00:16:27,321
Speaker 1: pull into a fake apartment complex, pull into a fake

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Speaker 1: parking lot, you know. And I wasn't the only one.

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Speaker 1: There are tons of victims that were being intimidated, followed, stocked,

289
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Speaker 1: their house is broken into. It came out in the

290
00:16:39,361 --> 00:16:44,161
Speaker 1: files that TMZ was writing smear campaigns alongside with his

291
00:16:44,241 --> 00:16:47,681
Speaker 1: attorneys in regards to the girls, the victims that we're

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Speaker 1: speaking out and that were coming forward. I was one

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00:16:50,921 --> 00:16:54,601
Speaker 1: of those children, you know, and it's what we're seeing

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Speaker 1: now is so unbelievably just horrendous in those files. I

295
00:16:59,001 --> 00:17:02,121
Speaker 1: don't think anybody was prepared for that, to be honest

296
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Speaker 1: with you.

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Speaker 2: You know, when you were sixteen and you actually first

298
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Speaker 2: to introduce to him, who did you think he was?

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Speaker 1: He told me he was an astronaut. He told me

300
00:17:11,681 --> 00:17:14,001
Speaker 1: he was an astronaut, and of course I kind of

301
00:17:14,041 --> 00:17:17,080
Speaker 1: looked at him funny, and I kept thinking to myself, like, no,

302
00:17:17,360 --> 00:17:20,321
Speaker 1: that doesn't seem right that you would be an astronaut.

303
00:17:20,360 --> 00:17:22,600
Speaker 1: And then he said he was a scientist that worked

304
00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:26,921
Speaker 1: for NASA, and so maybe the NASA, but I did

305
00:17:26,961 --> 00:17:29,761
Speaker 1: believe he was a scientist. That I believe was plausible

306
00:17:29,961 --> 00:17:34,281
Speaker 1: at that time. And it wasn't until the court proceedings,

307
00:17:34,521 --> 00:17:38,680
Speaker 1: until the legalities everything started to take place where I

308
00:17:38,801 --> 00:17:41,641
Speaker 1: realized this son of a bitulied to me about everything.

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Speaker 1: You weren't even a scientist. You were a billionaire financier.

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Speaker 1: And it's crazy because one of the times that I

311
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Speaker 1: was at his house, he was on the phone with

312
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Speaker 1: a female actress and he said to me, I'm on

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Speaker 1: the phone with so and so, and I'm thinking in

314
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Speaker 1: my head at sixteen years old, like, wow, you know

315
00:18:01,321 --> 00:18:03,761
Speaker 1: this person, Like that's crazy to me that you have

316
00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:07,561
Speaker 1: all these connections. And then as I started going to

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00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:10,200
Speaker 1: his house, I started meeting a lot of the older

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Speaker 1: girl the models, like I met Nadia Markanova, I met

319
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Speaker 1: Adrianna Ros, I met Sarah Kellen, who I only dealt

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Speaker 1: with her. And then when I got older and I

321
00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:27,640
Speaker 1: started going to therapy and healing, and I started realizing,

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00:18:27,761 --> 00:18:30,241
Speaker 1: like we were not friends. This man did not care

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Speaker 1: about me. This man was not trying to help me.

324
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Speaker 1: He was actually abusing me. But it was very hard

325
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Speaker 1: for me to understand that. I had a very difficult

326
00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:42,960
Speaker 1: time with that, and it didn't seem something was missing,

327
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Speaker 1: like it didn't seem right. And I started going back

328
00:18:46,681 --> 00:18:51,080
Speaker 1: into the depositions from when I was a child. I

329
00:18:51,120 --> 00:18:54,360
Speaker 1: look back and I'm like, I really thought this man

330
00:18:54,961 --> 00:18:58,480
Speaker 1: was helping me, Like I really thought that he was

331
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Speaker 1: going to get me out of What's pomp Beach and

332
00:19:00,360 --> 00:19:02,321
Speaker 1: be my night in Shining Armor. And then you're reading

333
00:19:02,321 --> 00:19:06,121
Speaker 1: these depositions as an adult. Now you're an adult, and

334
00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,001
Speaker 1: now you've been in therapy, and now you're getting a

335
00:19:08,001 --> 00:19:10,400
Speaker 1: different perspective of what that abuse looked like, and what

336
00:19:10,441 --> 00:19:14,600
Speaker 1: the grooming looked like. Now I'm sitting here reading these

337
00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:19,401
Speaker 1: depositions literally in tears because this sixteen year old girl

338
00:19:19,481 --> 00:19:23,001
Speaker 1: was trying to protect her abusers, and that brings a

339
00:19:23,001 --> 00:19:27,521
Speaker 1: whole other diabolical projection into the dynamic, because now I'm like, well,

340
00:19:27,521 --> 00:19:31,960
Speaker 1: what's wrong with me? It's incredible, I will say the

341
00:19:32,120 --> 00:19:37,241
Speaker 1: evolution of coming to realization of the accounts that were

342
00:19:37,241 --> 00:19:40,001
Speaker 1: taking place over the last thirty years, because it's taken

343
00:19:40,041 --> 00:19:45,400
Speaker 1: me almost thirty years to unravel. It's been incredible to

344
00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:51,841
Speaker 1: watch and to learn how this man was able to

345
00:19:51,921 --> 00:19:57,080
Speaker 1: manipulate and groom and ultimately his goal and another thing

346
00:19:57,321 --> 00:19:59,481
Speaker 1: that people don't talk about, and I'm going to again

347
00:19:59,561 --> 00:20:02,360
Speaker 1: say the quiet part out loud. He was turning the

348
00:20:02,481 --> 00:20:06,041
Speaker 1: children into Gallaine Maxwell. And I know that's really hard

349
00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:09,920
Speaker 1: to understand as an adult, but what Jeffrey inevitably was

350
00:20:09,961 --> 00:20:13,360
Speaker 1: doing to my understanding going to therapy and learning about

351
00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:16,440
Speaker 1: what was done to us with the underage girls and

352
00:20:16,481 --> 00:20:20,600
Speaker 1: the children and us having to bring our friends. He

353
00:20:20,801 --> 00:20:25,721
Speaker 1: was trying to expand his trafficking ring also forcing us

354
00:20:25,761 --> 00:20:29,321
Speaker 1: to be implicated in our own abuse, creating self harm.

355
00:20:29,921 --> 00:20:32,440
Speaker 1: So if we went to the police or we asked

356
00:20:32,521 --> 00:20:35,761
Speaker 1: for help. We are now implicated in our own abuse,

357
00:20:36,201 --> 00:20:38,881
Speaker 1: which I got to give credit where credits due, kudos

358
00:20:38,921 --> 00:20:41,961
Speaker 1: to him because that's exactly what happened. In the legal system,

359
00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:47,521
Speaker 1: is the children, the underage girls, that we're cooperating and

360
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:51,041
Speaker 1: we're telling the police how the system works and what

361
00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:54,160
Speaker 1: he was doing to us. The police were then turning

362
00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:56,961
Speaker 1: around saying, well, you just implicated yourself in a crime.

363
00:20:57,001 --> 00:20:58,761
Speaker 1: You're going to go to jail or there could be

364
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:03,201
Speaker 1: charges that you could be brought up on. So at

365
00:21:03,201 --> 00:21:07,041
Speaker 1: that point, a lot of us closed up and we're like, well,

366
00:21:07,120 --> 00:21:08,640
Speaker 1: what the hell. I don't want to talk to the

367
00:21:08,681 --> 00:21:12,921
Speaker 1: police anymore. For me, just wanted the truth to be out.

368
00:21:13,321 --> 00:21:15,880
Speaker 1: I just wanted to understand what was happening to me

369
00:21:15,961 --> 00:21:18,761
Speaker 1: in those moments, because clearly what I was going through

370
00:21:18,801 --> 00:21:23,281
Speaker 1: and what I was experiencing was very much different than

371
00:21:23,321 --> 00:21:26,841
Speaker 1: what the adults were telling me was going on. It

372
00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:28,761
Speaker 1: was like two different lives. Like I couldn't believe it.

373
00:21:28,801 --> 00:21:31,080
Speaker 1: I was like, no, he's not abusing me, like he's

374
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,120
Speaker 1: some of us thought he was our boyfriend. Like there

375
00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:37,961
Speaker 1: are some of the victims that really had a hard

376
00:21:38,201 --> 00:21:41,401
Speaker 1: and difficult time understanding that we weren't in a relationship

377
00:21:41,441 --> 00:21:41,801
Speaker 1: with him.

378
00:21:42,281 --> 00:21:44,681
Speaker 2: So what I'm gavin is he would say the right

379
00:21:44,721 --> 00:21:47,400
Speaker 2: things to you guys to get your trust and to

380
00:21:47,521 --> 00:21:49,481
Speaker 2: make you feel comfortable around him.

381
00:21:49,561 --> 00:21:49,801
Speaker 3: Yeah.

382
00:21:50,761 --> 00:21:54,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's the diabolical part, is that he didn't

383
00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:59,080
Speaker 1: need to handcuff us in a basement. He didn't need

384
00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:02,840
Speaker 1: to point a gunder our head and force us. She

385
00:22:03,281 --> 00:22:07,360
Speaker 1: was so good at manipulating the underage girls and the

386
00:22:07,481 --> 00:22:11,321
Speaker 1: children in this to believe that we were being heard

387
00:22:11,521 --> 00:22:14,321
Speaker 1: and valued, we were part of something so much bigger,

388
00:22:14,321 --> 00:22:17,361
Speaker 1: and that we were important. He made us feel special.

389
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:21,321
Speaker 1: He helped some of the victims get out of certain situations,

390
00:22:21,561 --> 00:22:24,680
Speaker 1: or maybe he promised them, you know, I'll help you

391
00:22:24,721 --> 00:22:27,600
Speaker 1: get into this college, or perhaps he would use other

392
00:22:27,681 --> 00:22:31,240
Speaker 1: ways to gain our trust. And so when all of

393
00:22:31,281 --> 00:22:34,920
Speaker 1: this exploded on a math level in the media and

394
00:22:35,041 --> 00:22:39,441
Speaker 1: in a legal aspect, a lot of the underage children

395
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:45,080
Speaker 1: were not understanding like how we were implicating ourselves because

396
00:22:45,120 --> 00:22:47,920
Speaker 1: we had still not even understood what our role was.

397
00:22:48,041 --> 00:22:50,521
Speaker 1: We thought God Jeffrey was our night and shining armor,

398
00:22:50,561 --> 00:22:53,121
Speaker 1: and that he was here to help us and rescue

399
00:22:53,201 --> 00:22:57,880
Speaker 1: us from our poverished homes or our abusive homes. You know,

400
00:22:58,001 --> 00:23:01,600
Speaker 1: I didn't come from a harvished or abused home. I

401
00:23:01,721 --> 00:23:05,041
Speaker 1: came from a very violent home. And that violence started

402
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:08,001
Speaker 1: when I was eight years old and my sister and

403
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:11,041
Speaker 1: my mom would get into fifth site in the hallway

404
00:23:11,041 --> 00:23:14,801
Speaker 1: before school, and that dragged throughout my entire life until

405
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:18,041
Speaker 1: I was twenty twenty three. I was physically assaulted, which

406
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:23,041
Speaker 1: is public records, by my sister that was domestic. It

407
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:27,680
Speaker 1: has been horrific for a lot of us. And Jeffrey

408
00:23:28,281 --> 00:23:31,481
Speaker 1: knew how to pick the underage girls and the young

409
00:23:31,561 --> 00:23:34,640
Speaker 1: women involved in this. He knew exactly which ones to

410
00:23:34,801 --> 00:23:40,400
Speaker 1: choose and to manipulate, how to get them in his orbit.

411
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:43,441
Speaker 1: He knew exactly what to say and what to do.

412
00:23:44,041 --> 00:23:47,201
Speaker 1: And looking back on it in hindsight, when I look

413
00:23:47,241 --> 00:23:50,401
Speaker 1: at what him and Les Wexner and some of these

414
00:23:50,441 --> 00:23:53,440
Speaker 1: adult men like, how he was able to manipulate the

415
00:23:53,481 --> 00:23:57,640
Speaker 1: adult men into having dinners, and how he was able

416
00:23:57,681 --> 00:24:01,681
Speaker 1: to push himself in social circles, how he was able

417
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:06,440
Speaker 1: to make connections in the political world. Now, as an

418
00:24:06,481 --> 00:24:09,721
Speaker 1: adult woman who's still in therapy, I am very much

419
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:14,920
Speaker 1: understanding that you just need the right grooming technique and

420
00:24:14,961 --> 00:24:18,961
Speaker 1: the right victim, and you can make anything happen. And

421
00:24:18,961 --> 00:24:21,640
Speaker 1: that is the diabolical part of the story. That is

422
00:24:21,681 --> 00:24:23,721
Speaker 1: the story.

423
00:24:23,761 --> 00:24:27,241
Speaker 2: So when the friend came to you to recruit you,

424
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,321
Speaker 2: what happens to hid? Did she just leave you in

425
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:32,641
Speaker 2: the room? Did she explain what you have to do?

426
00:24:33,120 --> 00:24:33,561
Speaker 1: That was it?

427
00:24:33,921 --> 00:24:36,481
Speaker 3: You're by yourself, and that was you were his new gil.

428
00:24:36,921 --> 00:24:40,120
Speaker 1: Yeah. So I picked up the sixteen year old girl

429
00:24:40,321 --> 00:24:43,360
Speaker 1: and Tony Figueroa and we drove to Jeffrey's house. And

430
00:24:43,360 --> 00:24:46,880
Speaker 1: in that car ride, Tony Figueroa was letting me know that,

431
00:24:48,041 --> 00:24:51,961
Speaker 1: you know, if Jeffrey asked, you know you're eighteen, don't

432
00:24:52,001 --> 00:24:54,241
Speaker 1: tell him about you know, don't tell him the truth

433
00:24:54,281 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 1: about anything. You're going to have to do it in

434
00:24:56,761 --> 00:24:59,200
Speaker 1: your underwear and brad, which would be like a bikini.

435
00:25:00,120 --> 00:25:01,561
Speaker 1: And then when I got to the house, I was

436
00:25:01,681 --> 00:25:05,041
Speaker 1: I was brought up by his assistant and then ultimately

437
00:25:05,120 --> 00:25:06,360
Speaker 1: left in the room alone with him.

438
00:25:06,801 --> 00:25:09,801
Speaker 2: So how many other girls were in that house when

439
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:10,961
Speaker 2: you first went in there?

440
00:25:11,441 --> 00:25:14,880
Speaker 1: I don't remember how many people were in the house

441
00:25:14,961 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 1: when I was there. I do know that there was

442
00:25:17,521 --> 00:25:20,120
Speaker 1: two people that showed up with me and the assistant

443
00:25:20,120 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 1: that was downstairs with the chef, so there were three

444
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:25,321
Speaker 1: adults downstairs.

445
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:28,041
Speaker 3: So but were you ever shared out to any of

446
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:29,880
Speaker 3: his friends or just for him.

447
00:25:30,481 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 1: No, he did not traffic me. And it's ironic that

448
00:25:35,001 --> 00:25:37,561
Speaker 1: you bring that up, because I've always kind of felt

449
00:25:37,681 --> 00:25:40,041
Speaker 1: this and that this is a part of the abuse.

450
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,001
Speaker 1: And I know this is going to sound disgusting, but

451
00:25:42,120 --> 00:25:45,440
Speaker 1: it is a part of the trauma. When I found

452
00:25:45,441 --> 00:25:49,721
Speaker 1: out that Jeffrey was trafficking and raping some of the girls,

453
00:25:50,321 --> 00:25:53,681
Speaker 1: I asked why I wasn't raped and why I wasn't

454
00:25:53,721 --> 00:25:58,400
Speaker 1: traffic And part of my trauma was believing that there

455
00:25:58,481 --> 00:26:00,640
Speaker 1: was something wrong with me, that he didn't like me

456
00:26:00,801 --> 00:26:04,640
Speaker 1: enough to traffic me out or to rape me. Really, yes,

457
00:26:05,441 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 1: and that is a part of the trauma. And I

458
00:26:07,801 --> 00:26:11,920
Speaker 1: have questioned that a lot with my therapist, and I

459
00:26:11,961 --> 00:26:16,120
Speaker 1: know it sounds absolutely disturbing and discussing, but this is

460
00:26:16,120 --> 00:26:18,920
Speaker 1: what he wanted. He wanted to make you feel like

461
00:26:19,001 --> 00:26:22,681
Speaker 1: if you did something that he didn't approve of, or

462
00:26:22,761 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 1: if you weren't given the same treatment as certain people,

463
00:26:25,561 --> 00:26:27,321
Speaker 1: that there was something wrong with you, that you weren't

464
00:26:27,321 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 1: meeting his knee, or that you weren't up to par

465
00:26:30,201 --> 00:26:34,120
Speaker 1: with what he needed, something to that effect, and it

466
00:26:34,201 --> 00:26:36,241
Speaker 1: took me. I mean, I've been in therapy for almost

467
00:26:36,281 --> 00:26:39,281
Speaker 1: eight years. I'm still in therapy, and I did think

468
00:26:39,321 --> 00:26:42,561
Speaker 1: there was something wrong with me until I started to

469
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,360
Speaker 1: meet a lot of the other girls and understand that

470
00:26:45,561 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 1: not all of us were raped or traffic And again,

471
00:26:49,041 --> 00:26:51,681
Speaker 1: something we don't talk about is the geography to all

472
00:26:51,721 --> 00:26:54,321
Speaker 1: of this. Right, So you have Zoro Ranch in New Mexico.

473
00:26:55,120 --> 00:26:58,161
Speaker 1: You have his townhouse or his brownstone in New York,

474
00:26:58,241 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 1: and then you have his mansion in Palm Beach, and

475
00:26:59,961 --> 00:27:02,681
Speaker 1: you have the Island. Nobody really lived at the island.

476
00:27:02,721 --> 00:27:04,841
Speaker 1: That was more of just like a hot spot they

477
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:08,041
Speaker 1: came to get away with his crime. I was never

478
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,041
Speaker 1: brought to the island. But what I've come to learn

479
00:27:11,201 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 1: through all of this is that geographically he was doing

480
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:18,400
Speaker 1: things differently. So with Florida and the girls, the underage

481
00:27:18,481 --> 00:27:23,321
Speaker 1: children in Florida, there wasn't a lot of trafficking. It

482
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 1: was more so Jeffrey was just abusing, molesting and raping us.

483
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 1: With the Brownstone in New York, it was more of

484
00:27:30,761 --> 00:27:34,521
Speaker 1: the human trafficking and the sex trafficking. With the models

485
00:27:34,561 --> 00:27:38,721
Speaker 1: the younger girls because New York it's the fashion capital

486
00:27:38,721 --> 00:27:42,401
Speaker 1: of the United States, so it was easier in that

487
00:27:43,441 --> 00:27:48,881
Speaker 1: geographical epicenter for the modeling. And then you have Zoro Ranch,

488
00:27:49,321 --> 00:27:52,041
Speaker 1: which we don't really know too much about because they

489
00:27:52,041 --> 00:27:56,041
Speaker 1: did stop the investigations years ago. I believe in twenty nineteen,

490
00:27:56,120 --> 00:27:58,521
Speaker 1: it's come out that they were demanding to stop all

491
00:27:58,561 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 1: investigations and to Sorow Ranch before Jeffrey Epstein sold his ranch,

492
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:07,521
Speaker 1: which is so interesting purchased it. So now that there's

493
00:28:07,561 --> 00:28:12,801
Speaker 1: an investigation into Zorro Ranch because of the files expressing

494
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:17,681
Speaker 1: and containing explicit information of girls that were twelve being

495
00:28:17,721 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 1: strangulated rapes and then during their abuse, they were killed

496
00:28:22,241 --> 00:28:25,920
Speaker 1: and buried allegedly buried on Zorro Ranch. Now this is

497
00:28:25,961 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 1: all allegedly because I say it's in the files and

498
00:28:28,961 --> 00:28:32,281
Speaker 1: until we have investigations, we're not going to know the truth.

499
00:28:32,921 --> 00:28:34,880
Speaker 1: And so you don't know too much about Zora Ranch.

500
00:28:34,921 --> 00:28:39,001
Speaker 1: But Zoro Range was primarily where they did experiments allegedly

501
00:28:39,281 --> 00:28:43,201
Speaker 1: and you know, did the oregon harvesting and the egg

502
00:28:43,241 --> 00:28:46,601
Speaker 1: harvesting allegedly that came out in the files. So it's

503
00:28:46,681 --> 00:28:50,441
Speaker 1: interesting when you look at it geographically, how it differs

504
00:28:50,881 --> 00:28:55,161
Speaker 1: in ages, in the forms of abuse. And the one

505
00:28:55,201 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 1: thing I will say that Jeffrey was incredible at, and

506
00:28:59,561 --> 00:29:03,081
Speaker 1: I don't say this lightly, is he was so good

507
00:29:03,841 --> 00:29:08,401
Speaker 1: at taking a a girl and catering the abuse to

508
00:29:08,481 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 1: fit her situation. So, for example, I came from a

509
00:29:13,441 --> 00:29:17,041
Speaker 1: little bit more of a violent home, a home where

510
00:29:17,081 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 1: I was neglected. There wasn't a lot of guidance. I

511
00:29:20,041 --> 00:29:22,801
Speaker 1: was never really heard or seen. I never felt like

512
00:29:22,841 --> 00:29:24,841
Speaker 1: a part of anything. I didn't feel like they were

513
00:29:24,841 --> 00:29:29,521
Speaker 1: my family. And Jeffrey and I talked about that, which

514
00:29:29,681 --> 00:29:32,401
Speaker 1: I should never have I should never have said anything

515
00:29:32,401 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 1: to him, because again, you're going back to a sixteen

516
00:29:35,241 --> 00:29:38,121
Speaker 1: year old girl. I'm literally telling this man how to

517
00:29:38,161 --> 00:29:40,961
Speaker 1: abuse me by telling him the kind of family I'm

518
00:29:41,001 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 1: coming from. So when Jeffrey and I would have conversations

519
00:29:44,761 --> 00:29:47,681
Speaker 1: about my health or about my father, about my family,

520
00:29:47,681 --> 00:29:50,881
Speaker 1: because we did, I would tell him things about my

521
00:29:50,961 --> 00:29:54,641
Speaker 1: personal life and my family life. And now looking back

522
00:29:54,681 --> 00:29:58,441
Speaker 1: at it as an adult, I'm like shit, I gave

523
00:29:58,521 --> 00:30:01,081
Speaker 1: him the manifesto on how to abuse me by telling

524
00:30:01,161 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 1: him what I needed. And when I was getting at home,

525
00:30:03,721 --> 00:30:04,401
Speaker 1: you needed.

526
00:30:04,121 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 3: The bather figure. He started to give you the father ticket.

527
00:30:06,801 --> 00:30:09,641
Speaker 1: Yeah, my dad was a great father, but he was

528
00:30:09,761 --> 00:30:12,401
Speaker 1: very rarely home because he was always at work and

529
00:30:12,441 --> 00:30:16,001
Speaker 1: on call. And my mom left the banking industry when

530
00:30:16,001 --> 00:30:18,561
Speaker 1: we moved to West Palm Beach and she went into

531
00:30:18,601 --> 00:30:21,001
Speaker 1: the bar industry, and she used to work at a

532
00:30:21,081 --> 00:30:24,321
Speaker 1: jazz club down in Fort Lauderdale called O'Hara's on the Beach.

533
00:30:25,161 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 1: She wouldn't get home till three four o'clock in the morning.

534
00:30:28,161 --> 00:30:30,841
Speaker 1: And the same was with my father being on call.

535
00:30:30,881 --> 00:30:33,201
Speaker 1: I didn't see him for days at a time. Both

536
00:30:33,241 --> 00:30:37,641
Speaker 1: of my older sisters really weren't around, so I had

537
00:30:38,361 --> 00:30:43,681
Speaker 1: nobody to talk to. I had nothing going on. After

538
00:30:43,721 --> 00:30:48,561
Speaker 1: I was raped, I was put with a therapist. Ironically,

539
00:30:48,641 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 1: I was being abused by Jeffrey why I was in therapy,

540
00:30:51,881 --> 00:30:55,121
Speaker 1: and she told my mother that I had been displaying

541
00:30:55,681 --> 00:31:00,361
Speaker 1: incredible signs of sexual assault and sexual abuse. But because

542
00:31:00,401 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 1: the way hippo works in the United States, it is

543
00:31:03,801 --> 00:31:07,241
Speaker 1: privileged information between the doctor and the patient. So even

544
00:31:07,281 --> 00:31:09,841
Speaker 1: though I was a minor child, she would have been

545
00:31:09,841 --> 00:31:12,921
Speaker 1: breaking HIPPA and could have lost her license if she

546
00:31:13,761 --> 00:31:19,641
Speaker 1: said anything that would compromise that privileged information. And while

547
00:31:19,681 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 1: I was with her my therapist. I never told her

548
00:31:23,281 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 1: about Jeffrey, so she couldn't have known. It's not like

549
00:31:25,801 --> 00:31:28,801
Speaker 1: she could have reported him because I didn't tell anybody.

550
00:31:28,841 --> 00:31:31,681
Speaker 1: It was a really hard conversation to have. I was

551
00:31:31,801 --> 00:31:33,841
Speaker 1: terrified of this man, so.

552
00:31:33,801 --> 00:31:36,161
Speaker 3: You went terrified often for them two years.

553
00:31:36,481 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I brought Jeffrey a girl once. I brought

554
00:31:39,721 --> 00:31:41,921
Speaker 1: a friend to his house. She was twenty three at

555
00:31:41,961 --> 00:31:44,841
Speaker 1: the time. Boy, that did not end well for me.

556
00:31:45,681 --> 00:31:48,521
Speaker 1: He yelled at me, almost kicked me out of his

557
00:31:48,601 --> 00:31:50,961
Speaker 1: house and told me never to bring her back here again.

558
00:31:51,081 --> 00:31:53,081
Speaker 1: What's wrong with you? Why would you bring me? She's

559
00:31:53,121 --> 00:31:57,001
Speaker 1: way too old. I got reprimanded for it, and you

560
00:31:57,041 --> 00:31:59,841
Speaker 1: would also get reprimanded if you brought a girl that

561
00:31:59,961 --> 00:32:03,761
Speaker 1: was too dark skinned. So if I brought like somebody

562
00:32:03,801 --> 00:32:06,601
Speaker 1: from the Caribbean or a girl from school that was

563
00:32:06,601 --> 00:32:09,681
Speaker 1: from like Jamaica and she was black, I would get

564
00:32:09,721 --> 00:32:12,201
Speaker 1: in trouble for that. And I wasn't the only one

565
00:32:12,241 --> 00:32:14,321
Speaker 1: it was. Come to find out. When I was talking

566
00:32:14,361 --> 00:32:17,001
Speaker 1: to my survivors sisters, they were like, yeah, and the

567
00:32:17,041 --> 00:32:19,601
Speaker 1: weird thing about Jeffrey too. And I know this is

568
00:32:19,641 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 1: going to sound crazy because people are always like well,

569
00:32:22,441 --> 00:32:26,241
Speaker 1: why did you keep going back? Why wouldn't I go back?

570
00:32:26,681 --> 00:32:30,161
Speaker 1: I was scared. I thought this man with somebody who

571
00:32:30,201 --> 00:32:33,321
Speaker 1: cared about me immensely. And then after a period of time,

572
00:32:34,121 --> 00:32:37,041
Speaker 1: I fell into a depression. I withdrew from sports, I

573
00:32:37,361 --> 00:32:41,081
Speaker 1: didn't have He isolated me. I didn't have any outside

574
00:32:41,161 --> 00:32:43,681
Speaker 1: people to like see what I was going through and

575
00:32:43,681 --> 00:32:47,241
Speaker 1: try to pull me out of it. And he hated drugs.

576
00:32:47,761 --> 00:32:51,121
Speaker 1: If you showed up at Jeffrey's house on pills, on coke,

577
00:32:51,361 --> 00:32:55,401
Speaker 1: on ecstasy, if you were drinking, you got to go.

578
00:32:56,281 --> 00:32:59,401
Speaker 1: And I think he even puts one of the girls

579
00:32:59,401 --> 00:33:02,961
Speaker 1: in rehab. So you see how confusing it is when

580
00:33:03,001 --> 00:33:05,881
Speaker 1: somebody's taking those steps and tell you, like I care

581
00:33:05,961 --> 00:33:08,481
Speaker 1: about your health, you can't drink, you can't do this.

582
00:33:08,921 --> 00:33:11,401
Speaker 1: But then at the same time he's like abusing you,

583
00:33:12,001 --> 00:33:14,361
Speaker 1: but you don't look at it as abused because you're

584
00:33:14,401 --> 00:33:17,281
Speaker 1: a child and this man's also helping you. So it's

585
00:33:17,281 --> 00:33:21,481
Speaker 1: psychological warfare, is really what it was. And until you

586
00:33:21,521 --> 00:33:24,921
Speaker 1: get out of it completely, and until you go to

587
00:33:25,001 --> 00:33:28,081
Speaker 1: therapy and you start healing, and you start going back

588
00:33:28,121 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 1: into your childhood to figure out why you ended up

589
00:33:30,481 --> 00:33:32,321
Speaker 1: with him, how you ended up with him. How did

590
00:33:32,401 --> 00:33:35,601
Speaker 1: I say, I mean, I've learned a lot through therapy

591
00:33:35,641 --> 00:33:39,321
Speaker 1: about myself and how I was so broken at such

592
00:33:39,321 --> 00:33:42,921
Speaker 1: a young age, which ultimately set me up for Jeffrey.

593
00:33:43,281 --> 00:33:46,401
Speaker 1: I was the perfect victim. The other girls were the same,

594
00:33:46,841 --> 00:33:50,841
Speaker 1: you know. Some of them came from drug addicts, parents, homelessness,

595
00:33:51,081 --> 00:33:53,441
Speaker 1: some of them lived in trailer parks where they didn't

596
00:33:53,481 --> 00:33:56,761
Speaker 1: have a lot of resources or food, And damn it,

597
00:33:56,881 --> 00:34:01,001
Speaker 1: Jeffrey just grasped it. He knew, he knew the girl

598
00:34:01,121 --> 00:34:02,481
Speaker 1: that needed him.

599
00:34:03,081 --> 00:34:06,601
Speaker 2: How did a one of them gil like cope without

600
00:34:07,001 --> 00:34:09,921
Speaker 2: drugs or alcohol if he didn't want that in his house,

601
00:34:09,961 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 2: Because that's the only way some of these girls can

602
00:34:12,561 --> 00:34:15,961
Speaker 2: cope by the stress and the trauma is take drugs

603
00:34:16,041 --> 00:34:17,921
Speaker 2: or take alcohols to get by with it.

604
00:34:18,921 --> 00:34:23,001
Speaker 1: He wanted us present, He wanted us present in our views.

605
00:34:24,001 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 1: How sick is that? How sick is that? I saw

606
00:34:27,041 --> 00:34:31,521
Speaker 1: Tucker Carlson he was doing an interview with another gentleman

607
00:34:31,801 --> 00:34:36,161
Speaker 1: and they were talking about Jeffrey Epstein and Tucker Carlson

608
00:34:36,241 --> 00:34:38,801
Speaker 1: blessed his heart was trying to figure out why Jeffrey

609
00:34:38,881 --> 00:34:43,121
Speaker 1: was into like young girls with braces not developed, pre

610
00:34:43,241 --> 00:34:46,801
Speaker 1: pubescent and Tucker Carlson was just like, I don't understand it,

611
00:34:46,881 --> 00:34:49,601
Speaker 1: Like I don't see the fascination or the attraction, Like

612
00:34:49,641 --> 00:34:51,881
Speaker 1: I just can't like it. Just maybe I have too

613
00:34:51,921 --> 00:34:54,921
Speaker 1: many kids. It's just I can't understand why anybody would

614
00:34:54,921 --> 00:34:58,441
Speaker 1: be attracted to something like that. And the person I

615
00:34:58,481 --> 00:35:02,041
Speaker 1: believe he was interviewing said something's the effect of well,

616
00:35:02,041 --> 00:35:06,081
Speaker 1: that's how monsters work. And Tucker Carlson said he talked

617
00:35:06,121 --> 00:35:08,881
Speaker 1: to his pastor about it, and the pastor said, Jeffrey

618
00:35:09,681 --> 00:35:14,481
Speaker 1: was infatuated with the idea of breaking the innocence of

619
00:35:14,521 --> 00:35:17,201
Speaker 1: a child or a person. That's where he got off.

620
00:35:17,241 --> 00:35:20,841
Speaker 1: That was his high. He wanted to break you down.

621
00:35:22,081 --> 00:35:24,521
Speaker 2: But he also to me, sounds like he wanted to

622
00:35:25,361 --> 00:35:29,641
Speaker 2: mold all you females to how he wanted used to be.

623
00:35:30,521 --> 00:35:33,721
Speaker 1: How he viewed women. He wanted to break us down

624
00:35:33,881 --> 00:35:38,441
Speaker 1: and mold us into a galain or one of his assistants,

625
00:35:38,881 --> 00:35:43,201
Speaker 1: so that way he could expand his trafficking network and

626
00:35:43,521 --> 00:35:46,921
Speaker 1: keep up with the need of the elites and the

627
00:35:46,961 --> 00:35:49,721
Speaker 1: pedophiles and the friends that are going to get caught

628
00:35:49,761 --> 00:35:52,601
Speaker 1: up in all this. He wanted to mold us into

629
00:35:52,641 --> 00:35:56,601
Speaker 1: that which I am still having a hard problem understanding

630
00:35:56,641 --> 00:35:59,601
Speaker 1: that because it's to take a child who has no

631
00:36:00,321 --> 00:36:04,481
Speaker 1: real experience as like an adult would have, or doesn't

632
00:36:04,481 --> 00:36:08,681
Speaker 1: have the same ability to navigate those kind of situations.

633
00:36:08,921 --> 00:36:12,001
Speaker 1: He wanted those types of individuals in his network so

634
00:36:12,041 --> 00:36:14,401
Speaker 1: he can mold them to be like the Lane or

635
00:36:14,561 --> 00:36:19,361
Speaker 1: like an assistant. And I not delved into the Epstein

636
00:36:19,361 --> 00:36:22,241
Speaker 1: files because they're just too too much for me. It's

637
00:36:22,281 --> 00:36:25,881
Speaker 1: too disgusting. But I will say that I did get

638
00:36:25,881 --> 00:36:29,001
Speaker 1: a phone call. I was in New York and I

639
00:36:29,161 --> 00:36:33,561
Speaker 1: was doing a PSA for the Super Bowl, and I

640
00:36:33,601 --> 00:36:37,601
Speaker 1: got a text message from a journalist from Bloomberg and

641
00:36:38,161 --> 00:36:41,081
Speaker 1: we talked about some of the emails that she shared

642
00:36:41,081 --> 00:36:43,041
Speaker 1: with me over the phone and how I was all

643
00:36:43,041 --> 00:36:45,561
Speaker 1: over the emails. And I said to her, well, why

644
00:36:45,601 --> 00:36:47,721
Speaker 1: would I be all over the emails? I was in

645
00:36:47,801 --> 00:36:51,001
Speaker 1: Jeffrey's orbit for two years, and I was like the

646
00:36:51,041 --> 00:36:53,881
Speaker 1: lowest person on the totalal. I was a nobody, you know,

647
00:36:54,121 --> 00:36:56,041
Speaker 1: like I was just one of the girls that were

648
00:36:56,041 --> 00:36:58,561
Speaker 1: being abused and then bringing girls in, which is what

649
00:36:58,641 --> 00:37:02,001
Speaker 1: all the other victims were doing. I wasn't anything spectacular.

650
00:37:02,041 --> 00:37:06,561
Speaker 1: What was the degree of conversation in the emails? That

651
00:37:06,681 --> 00:37:10,321
Speaker 1: I'm currently working with exposing as soon as I can

652
00:37:10,721 --> 00:37:14,561
Speaker 1: is Jeffrey was in those emails with his attorneys and

653
00:37:14,641 --> 00:37:19,921
Speaker 1: Dershowitz talking about my mental emotional states, and when you

654
00:37:19,961 --> 00:37:23,321
Speaker 1: look at that as an adult going back, he knew

655
00:37:23,361 --> 00:37:27,201
Speaker 1: that I was broken. He knew that I had emotional

656
00:37:27,201 --> 00:37:30,921
Speaker 1: and mental issues and that I was not okay. And

657
00:37:30,961 --> 00:37:34,641
Speaker 1: then there were emails too, allegedly that that were leaked

658
00:37:35,161 --> 00:37:38,521
Speaker 1: to this media not only about that, but he was

659
00:37:38,641 --> 00:37:42,241
Speaker 1: making notes about me to Dershowitz and to his attorneys

660
00:37:42,281 --> 00:37:46,241
Speaker 1: and to himself. And I'm like noes, And this is

661
00:37:46,281 --> 00:37:49,361
Speaker 1: why I go back and forth with the idea of

662
00:37:49,401 --> 00:37:52,081
Speaker 1: maybe him being involved in the death of my boyfriend

663
00:37:52,321 --> 00:37:55,481
Speaker 1: and the fact that my house was broken into, because

664
00:37:56,001 --> 00:38:00,841
Speaker 1: besides the fact that TMZ and Robert Kahn came out

665
00:38:00,881 --> 00:38:03,961
Speaker 1: in his testimony and the Oversight Committee about what Jeffrey

666
00:38:04,041 --> 00:38:07,841
Speaker 1: was doing with the stocking and the private investigators and

667
00:38:07,881 --> 00:38:11,441
Speaker 1: things like that, we all had every right to be

668
00:38:11,521 --> 00:38:16,241
Speaker 1: terrified of Jeffrey Epstein. And this is why it took

669
00:38:16,481 --> 00:38:19,001
Speaker 1: a very long time for some of us to get

670
00:38:19,001 --> 00:38:22,681
Speaker 1: away from him, because of the retribution that we knew

671
00:38:23,681 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 1: was going to come sooner or later. Because of who

672
00:38:26,521 --> 00:38:28,881
Speaker 1: Jeffrey was. This is why we were so scared of him.

673
00:38:29,401 --> 00:38:31,561
Speaker 1: I mean, he would tell us that he had the

674
00:38:31,601 --> 00:38:34,121
Speaker 1: government and the banks and that there was nothing we

675
00:38:34,201 --> 00:38:37,721
Speaker 1: could do when you tell a child that, And there

676
00:38:37,801 --> 00:38:40,921
Speaker 1: were not me, but other victims that did go to

677
00:38:40,961 --> 00:38:45,841
Speaker 1: the police, and the FBI buried it. The police department

678
00:38:45,881 --> 00:38:49,761
Speaker 1: didn't even investigate. In fact, the police department took money

679
00:38:49,801 --> 00:38:54,081
Speaker 1: from Jeffrey, They took donations from Jeffrey. They looked the

680
00:38:54,121 --> 00:38:58,401
Speaker 1: other way. So when you're dealing with thirteen, fourteen, fifteen,

681
00:38:58,521 --> 00:39:01,841
Speaker 1: sixteen year old children and some of us who had

682
00:39:01,841 --> 00:39:03,801
Speaker 1: already gone to the police, and now you have our

683
00:39:03,841 --> 00:39:07,401
Speaker 1: abuser saying, well, there's nothing you can do. I have

684
00:39:07,521 --> 00:39:09,441
Speaker 1: the banks, I have the government. Who are you going

685
00:39:09,521 --> 00:39:12,081
Speaker 1: to go to? What the hell are we supposed to do?

686
00:39:12,681 --> 00:39:16,801
Speaker 1: You know, we're just children. We followed what we were

687
00:39:16,841 --> 00:39:20,961
Speaker 1: supposed to do. For me, I didn't feel the necessity

688
00:39:21,001 --> 00:39:24,041
Speaker 1: to go to the police. I didn't feel like it

689
00:39:24,081 --> 00:39:26,361
Speaker 1: was something I needed to do because I didn't feel

690
00:39:26,361 --> 00:39:29,281
Speaker 1: like there was going to be anything done. So for me,

691
00:39:30,041 --> 00:39:33,201
Speaker 1: when I turned eighteen, moving across the county to Orlando

692
00:39:33,441 --> 00:39:36,681
Speaker 1: felt like the better option for me. You know, just

693
00:39:36,761 --> 00:39:40,401
Speaker 1: kind of slip under the radar. Maybe Jeffrey won't notice.

694
00:39:40,841 --> 00:39:42,881
Speaker 1: He noticed, Okay, you.

695
00:39:42,801 --> 00:39:46,561
Speaker 2: Know when you go and recruit more girls for him. Yeah,

696
00:39:46,601 --> 00:39:48,641
Speaker 2: I know this might sound I normally this might sound

697
00:39:48,641 --> 00:39:51,641
Speaker 2: a bit weird. Yeah, but because you're in that mold

698
00:39:51,681 --> 00:39:55,841
Speaker 2: and you're in that circle, you don't realize what's going on.

699
00:39:55,921 --> 00:39:58,601
Speaker 2: You think nothing of it, and they bring someone else, saying,

700
00:39:58,921 --> 00:40:01,841
Speaker 2: do you go down the pecking order? And would you

701
00:40:01,921 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 2: get jealous because a new person's come in and taken

702
00:40:04,561 --> 00:40:05,881
Speaker 2: your spot?

703
00:40:06,361 --> 00:40:09,481
Speaker 1: That's a hard one. I was not jealous. Wouldn't say

704
00:40:09,481 --> 00:40:13,961
Speaker 1: I was jealous. I felt discarded, like I was used.

705
00:40:15,201 --> 00:40:18,561
Speaker 1: He made you feel like a prostitute in that part.

706
00:40:19,001 --> 00:40:22,201
Speaker 1: In that part, he did make you feel used. For

707
00:40:22,321 --> 00:40:25,361
Speaker 1: some of us, like I said, it was hard, But

708
00:40:25,441 --> 00:40:29,121
Speaker 1: for me, I just I think something just clicked with

709
00:40:29,161 --> 00:40:33,121
Speaker 1: me when I turned eighteen, and I think I brought

710
00:40:33,361 --> 00:40:36,601
Speaker 1: one girl to Jeffrey, like right around my eighteenth birthday.

711
00:40:37,161 --> 00:40:39,681
Speaker 1: I didn't like the way it made me feel. I

712
00:40:39,681 --> 00:40:44,041
Speaker 1: didn't like the way Jeffrey made me feel. As scared

713
00:40:44,081 --> 00:40:46,281
Speaker 1: as I was, I knew that this is not going

714
00:40:46,361 --> 00:40:48,761
Speaker 1: to be good. If I say I have to go,

715
00:40:49,721 --> 00:40:54,081
Speaker 1: I gambled. I gambled, and I lost a lot because

716
00:40:54,121 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 1: I lost, But if I would have stayed, he would

717
00:40:58,001 --> 00:40:59,361
Speaker 1: have destroyed everything good in me.

718
00:41:00,561 --> 00:41:04,441
Speaker 2: You know when you said that he didn't sexually abuse

719
00:41:04,481 --> 00:41:06,841
Speaker 2: you in a way I had sexual intercourse with you.

720
00:41:07,521 --> 00:41:08,441
Speaker 3: Did he tell you why?

721
00:41:09,361 --> 00:41:12,241
Speaker 1: He did not tell me why. The part that I

722
00:41:12,281 --> 00:41:14,081
Speaker 1: struggle with is because I did tell him that I

723
00:41:14,121 --> 00:41:18,641
Speaker 1: had been sexually assaulted previously. And this is the part

724
00:41:18,681 --> 00:41:21,801
Speaker 1: that people don't understand because it's so grotesque and people

725
00:41:21,921 --> 00:41:26,841
Speaker 1: are super judgmental about this. But I always felt like

726
00:41:27,601 --> 00:41:30,001
Speaker 1: he threw me away as trash and didn't rate me

727
00:41:30,161 --> 00:41:34,601
Speaker 1: or anything because I was already damaged. Good, Okay, that's

728
00:41:34,641 --> 00:41:38,481
Speaker 1: how he made me feel. Yeah, yeah, so there was

729
00:41:38,521 --> 00:41:39,961
Speaker 1: a lot of self harm.

730
00:41:40,801 --> 00:41:44,441
Speaker 2: Because my next question was did he like you girls

731
00:41:44,481 --> 00:41:46,521
Speaker 2: to bring virgins to him?

732
00:41:47,241 --> 00:41:50,361
Speaker 1: Oh? My gosh. No, we never discussed that. That was

733
00:41:50,401 --> 00:41:54,841
Speaker 1: never a conversation we talked about. But I know that

734
00:41:55,001 --> 00:41:57,441
Speaker 1: him and his assistance would tell all of us the

735
00:41:57,521 --> 00:42:00,841
Speaker 1: younger the better. And what you just brought up is

736
00:42:01,001 --> 00:42:04,841
Speaker 1: so fringe because I just had this conversation with my therapist.

737
00:42:05,641 --> 00:42:08,361
Speaker 1: I didn't become a woman until I was fifteen. I

738
00:42:08,401 --> 00:42:11,681
Speaker 1: was a very weak bloomer. I was very athletic my

739
00:42:11,721 --> 00:42:14,161
Speaker 1: whole life, so I didn't become a woman until I

740
00:42:14,201 --> 00:42:17,921
Speaker 1: was fifteen, and six months later I was raped. And

741
00:42:17,961 --> 00:42:20,681
Speaker 1: then a year into being a woman, I was sexually

742
00:42:20,721 --> 00:42:24,801
Speaker 1: abused by Jeffrey, And all I kept telling my therapist

743
00:42:25,041 --> 00:42:28,081
Speaker 1: was if I had met him when I was fifteen,

744
00:42:28,921 --> 00:42:32,161
Speaker 1: I can't imagine how much worse the abuse would have been,

745
00:42:32,241 --> 00:42:35,041
Speaker 1: because I would assume at that point he would have

746
00:42:35,081 --> 00:42:35,481
Speaker 1: raped me.

747
00:42:39,081 --> 00:42:42,481
Speaker 2: Can I ask why you kept it quiet, like from people,

748
00:42:43,121 --> 00:42:46,681
Speaker 2: if you're going through so much trauma, surely you wanted

749
00:42:46,721 --> 00:42:51,161
Speaker 2: to speak to somebody being sixteen years old, Like I

750
00:42:51,201 --> 00:42:53,481
Speaker 2: know you're saying you had a relationship with your mom

751
00:42:53,481 --> 00:42:55,721
Speaker 2: where it was kind of broken down, your sister and

752
00:42:55,721 --> 00:42:59,481
Speaker 2: all like that, but your dad being a copper, a

753
00:42:59,521 --> 00:43:02,921
Speaker 2: police officer, and you're going through this and you'll see

754
00:43:03,041 --> 00:43:06,121
Speaker 2: what you're seeing, knowing that your dad is probably the

755
00:43:06,121 --> 00:43:08,161
Speaker 2: best person to talk to, but you didn't.

756
00:43:08,801 --> 00:43:11,641
Speaker 1: Well, the reason I didn't is because I went on

757
00:43:11,681 --> 00:43:13,841
Speaker 1: a three day drug binge and I didn't come home

758
00:43:13,921 --> 00:43:16,761
Speaker 1: after my rape. And this is when I was fifteen,

759
00:43:16,761 --> 00:43:20,081
Speaker 1: this is before Jeffrey and I had come home three

760
00:43:20,121 --> 00:43:24,281
Speaker 1: days later. And my mom and dad had I guess

761
00:43:24,281 --> 00:43:28,001
Speaker 1: it was some sort of intervention like scenario. They were

762
00:43:28,041 --> 00:43:29,801
Speaker 1: sitting at the dining room table and it was just

763
00:43:29,841 --> 00:43:31,801
Speaker 1: my mom and my dad and they asked me to

764
00:43:31,801 --> 00:43:34,761
Speaker 1: come sit down with them, and they asked me what

765
00:43:34,921 --> 00:43:39,121
Speaker 1: was going on. I was being an asshole, I was

766
00:43:39,161 --> 00:43:43,961
Speaker 1: being disrespectful. I was just basically like crying at the table.

767
00:43:44,001 --> 00:43:46,601
Speaker 1: And my dad said, if you don't stop living this

768
00:43:46,721 --> 00:43:48,961
Speaker 1: fast life, something bad is going to happen to you.

769
00:43:49,601 --> 00:43:52,161
Speaker 1: And he goes, why do I feel like you hate

770
00:43:52,161 --> 00:43:54,201
Speaker 1: your mother and I And I'll never forget When he

771
00:43:54,201 --> 00:43:55,921
Speaker 1: said that, I looked up at him and I said,

772
00:43:55,921 --> 00:43:59,281
Speaker 1: because I fucking do hate you guys. I got up

773
00:43:59,321 --> 00:44:02,881
Speaker 1: off the table and he cornered me and he slapped

774
00:44:02,921 --> 00:44:05,001
Speaker 1: me in my face and my head hit the back

775
00:44:05,121 --> 00:44:07,721
Speaker 1: of the window in our dining room. We have this

776
00:44:07,841 --> 00:44:10,601
Speaker 1: huge bay window, and my head hit the window and

777
00:44:10,601 --> 00:44:13,761
Speaker 1: my mom was screaming for him to stop. And that's

778
00:44:13,801 --> 00:44:17,881
Speaker 1: when I was put into therapy after that night. The

779
00:44:17,921 --> 00:44:20,121
Speaker 1: next day, my sister came to me and we were

780
00:44:20,161 --> 00:44:23,081
Speaker 1: on my front porch of my house and there's like

781
00:44:23,121 --> 00:44:26,201
Speaker 1: a lunine and my sister said, I think you're lying.

782
00:44:26,441 --> 00:44:28,161
Speaker 1: I don't think you were raped. I think you did

783
00:44:28,161 --> 00:44:33,521
Speaker 1: this for attention. So when I had those experiences happen,

784
00:44:34,761 --> 00:44:36,601
Speaker 1: why would I want to come out and talk about

785
00:44:36,721 --> 00:44:39,561
Speaker 1: even something even more worse like? Why would I want

786
00:44:39,601 --> 00:44:42,601
Speaker 1: to talk to them when they can't even have a

787
00:44:42,641 --> 00:44:47,041
Speaker 1: conversation with me without being irate? And with all fairness,

788
00:44:47,121 --> 00:44:50,521
Speaker 1: my dad grew up as an Irish Italian Catholic from Boston,

789
00:44:51,361 --> 00:44:53,801
Speaker 1: so he was a very strict Catholic and he was

790
00:44:53,801 --> 00:44:57,440
Speaker 1: a police officer. And I know, at sixteen years old,

791
00:44:57,521 --> 00:44:59,440
Speaker 1: your dad stopping you in the face, I know that

792
00:44:59,481 --> 00:45:02,281
Speaker 1: seems a bit aggressive. But I also have to take

793
00:45:02,281 --> 00:45:05,241
Speaker 1: accountability and say that I was being an asshole and

794
00:45:05,401 --> 00:45:08,801
Speaker 1: I was being disrespectful because I had so much anger

795
00:45:09,281 --> 00:45:11,681
Speaker 1: and so much resentment for my parents that weren't there

796
00:45:11,721 --> 00:45:14,641
Speaker 1: to protect me at the time that I wanted them

797
00:45:14,681 --> 00:45:17,641
Speaker 1: to know that you disappointed me and that you weren't

798
00:45:17,681 --> 00:45:21,721
Speaker 1: there to protect me, and I needed that. Then I

799
00:45:21,761 --> 00:45:25,081
Speaker 1: went to therapy, and that's when my therapist told my

800
00:45:25,161 --> 00:45:29,761
Speaker 1: mom about my sexual abuse. And I had shown flags

801
00:45:29,761 --> 00:45:32,681
Speaker 1: and displays of sexual assault. But I will tell you this,

802
00:45:33,681 --> 00:45:37,041
Speaker 1: I was abused by Jeffrey at sixteen. Right, I'm forty

803
00:45:37,121 --> 00:45:40,681
Speaker 1: years old. My dad died last year. I do not

804
00:45:40,721 --> 00:45:43,801
Speaker 1: speak to my mom or my sisters, and through my

805
00:45:44,441 --> 00:45:48,241
Speaker 1: entire life, and there's been plenty of opportunity, I have

806
00:45:48,441 --> 00:45:51,921
Speaker 1: never had anybody in my family ask me what Jeffrey

807
00:45:51,921 --> 00:45:54,960
Speaker 1: has done to me, what Jeffrey did to me, if

808
00:45:55,001 --> 00:45:57,681
Speaker 1: I was abused by Jeffrey, if he had raped me,

809
00:45:58,241 --> 00:46:01,561
Speaker 1: Nobody asked me what took place? The same way nobody

810
00:46:01,601 --> 00:46:03,561
Speaker 1: asked me and my family what took place between me

811
00:46:03,601 --> 00:46:04,281
Speaker 1: and my rapists?

812
00:46:05,081 --> 00:46:06,001
Speaker 3: Why did you think that is?

813
00:46:08,121 --> 00:46:12,681
Speaker 1: My parents grew up in a very different generation where

814
00:46:12,761 --> 00:46:15,521
Speaker 1: we sweep it under the rug, We don't talk about things,

815
00:46:16,001 --> 00:46:18,041
Speaker 1: we just move along.

816
00:46:19,281 --> 00:46:20,081
Speaker 3: Is it the fact of it?

817
00:46:20,241 --> 00:46:23,561
Speaker 2: If it came out in the neighborhood, it's not good

818
00:46:23,601 --> 00:46:26,281
Speaker 2: for your family, your mom and dad's, you know, the

819
00:46:26,321 --> 00:46:28,681
Speaker 2: neighbors to find out, oh my god, my daughter was right,

820
00:46:28,841 --> 00:46:30,721
Speaker 2: or oh this is what's going on with Do you

821
00:46:30,721 --> 00:46:32,521
Speaker 2: think that was just a high day.

822
00:46:33,241 --> 00:46:35,201
Speaker 1: I think part of it was the shame that comes

823
00:46:35,241 --> 00:46:39,761
Speaker 1: with it. Yeah. Absolutely. I also think that they felt like, well,

824
00:46:39,801 --> 00:46:41,561
Speaker 1: if we don't ask questions and we can say we

825
00:46:41,601 --> 00:46:44,841
Speaker 1: don't know, but it's very disheartening. When you grew up

826
00:46:44,881 --> 00:46:46,921
Speaker 1: in a house where everything is and that wasn't the

827
00:46:46,921 --> 00:46:49,201
Speaker 1: only things that were happening within my house that we

828
00:46:49,201 --> 00:46:51,921
Speaker 1: weren't talking about. There was plenty of things in that

829
00:46:52,001 --> 00:46:56,161
Speaker 1: household that were happening, and things weren't being discussed, and

830
00:46:56,921 --> 00:46:59,001
Speaker 1: you know, it was all being swept under the rug.

831
00:46:59,081 --> 00:47:02,801
Speaker 1: And I remember being I had a criminal attorney at

832
00:47:02,801 --> 00:47:05,481
Speaker 1: the time, and my dad and I were in his

833
00:47:05,601 --> 00:47:11,721
Speaker 1: office and I had just completely broken down because I

834
00:47:11,801 --> 00:47:18,041
Speaker 1: had to talk about things, and my dad started crying,

835
00:47:19,121 --> 00:47:23,121
Speaker 1: and my criminal attorney basically excused him and said, you know,

836
00:47:23,161 --> 00:47:25,081
Speaker 1: I think this would be easier if it was just

837
00:47:25,121 --> 00:47:28,841
Speaker 1: your daughter and I having these conversations, because it was

838
00:47:28,921 --> 00:47:31,681
Speaker 1: just I wasn't able to talk to him with my

839
00:47:31,801 --> 00:47:34,441
Speaker 1: dad there, and as upset my dad as my dad was.

840
00:47:34,481 --> 00:47:38,641
Speaker 1: It's very hard. But this is why I have a

841
00:47:38,681 --> 00:47:41,681
Speaker 1: nonprofit and this is why I do education, and this

842
00:47:41,761 --> 00:47:44,041
Speaker 1: is why I talk to people, and this is why

843
00:47:44,681 --> 00:47:48,201
Speaker 1: I work very hard in the human trafficking industry, is

844
00:47:48,241 --> 00:47:51,761
Speaker 1: because it starts at home, and it starts with your childhood.

845
00:47:52,361 --> 00:47:55,921
Speaker 1: You do not need to come from a poverished or

846
00:47:55,961 --> 00:48:00,561
Speaker 1: sexually abusive home. You could just be the child that

847
00:48:00,681 --> 00:48:04,241
Speaker 1: is not heard, not seen, and neglected, and you are

848
00:48:04,361 --> 00:48:07,481
Speaker 1: leaving a gap for a predator to come in and

849
00:48:07,561 --> 00:48:10,361
Speaker 1: fill the needs of that child. So this is why

850
00:48:10,441 --> 00:48:13,241
Speaker 1: I try to do as much networking and education with

851
00:48:13,361 --> 00:48:17,041
Speaker 1: the parents, because the parents need to be weaponized with

852
00:48:17,121 --> 00:48:20,521
Speaker 1: information and education that should be free to them in

853
00:48:20,641 --> 00:48:24,321
Speaker 1: order to understand how these predators wedge themselves in between

854
00:48:24,401 --> 00:48:27,921
Speaker 1: families and victims. And I'm telling the public this is

855
00:48:27,921 --> 00:48:32,881
Speaker 1: how it starts. As a mother, now, you know, I

856
00:48:32,921 --> 00:48:36,081
Speaker 1: do things very different than what I was raised in.

857
00:48:36,921 --> 00:48:38,921
Speaker 1: It's very different in my house.

858
00:48:40,081 --> 00:48:43,521
Speaker 3: Do you think you'll ever mend the relationship with your family.

859
00:48:44,401 --> 00:48:46,921
Speaker 1: I don't want to mend it. I'm not interested in

860
00:48:46,961 --> 00:48:52,201
Speaker 1: mending it anymore. I lost my father December fifth, twenty

861
00:48:52,401 --> 00:48:55,481
Speaker 1: twenty five, So the timeline for all of this is

862
00:48:56,081 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 1: September second. I was at the Capitol in Washington, DC

863
00:49:00,121 --> 00:49:03,161
Speaker 1: with my survivor's sisters and my attorneys fighting for justice

864
00:49:03,201 --> 00:49:05,641
Speaker 1: and fighting for the release of all the Epstein files.

865
00:49:06,041 --> 00:49:09,161
Speaker 1: September thirteenth, my dad was put in the hospital and

866
00:49:09,201 --> 00:49:15,281
Speaker 1: diagnosed with brain cancer. I was already advocating and starting

867
00:49:15,321 --> 00:49:19,361
Speaker 1: this journey to release all the files. Within two weeks

868
00:49:19,401 --> 00:49:21,721
Speaker 1: after that my dad had been diagnosed. I couldn't just

869
00:49:22,281 --> 00:49:24,281
Speaker 1: It's not like I could call DC and be like, hey,

870
00:49:24,321 --> 00:49:27,001
Speaker 1: can you put this on hold? My dad is unfortunately dying.

871
00:49:27,481 --> 00:49:29,521
Speaker 1: And it was really hard on me because I was

872
00:49:29,601 --> 00:49:31,881
Speaker 1: literally going back and forth to New York, back and

873
00:49:31,921 --> 00:49:34,481
Speaker 1: forth to Washington. I would fly in, I would go

874
00:49:34,521 --> 00:49:37,481
Speaker 1: straight to the hospital. I would I would bake cookies

875
00:49:37,521 --> 00:49:43,001
Speaker 1: and cook for my father. And the day before it

876
00:49:43,081 --> 00:49:46,601
Speaker 1: was Thanksgiving, I was doing Aaron Burnett on CNN and

877
00:49:46,641 --> 00:49:49,801
Speaker 1: my dad was put back in the hospital and I

878
00:49:49,921 --> 00:49:53,081
Speaker 1: just remember feeling really shitty, like I don't want to

879
00:49:53,081 --> 00:49:56,521
Speaker 1: be sure, to want to go hold. And then when

880
00:49:56,521 --> 00:49:58,601
Speaker 1: I got to the hospital. When I got back home,

881
00:49:59,921 --> 00:50:01,841
Speaker 1: it was the last conversation that my dad and I

882
00:50:01,881 --> 00:50:03,761
Speaker 1: were able to have. It was the last day that

883
00:50:03,841 --> 00:50:06,601
Speaker 1: his eyes were open and that she was assertive before

884
00:50:06,601 --> 00:50:09,081
Speaker 1: he went in to the hospice, and my mom and

885
00:50:09,121 --> 00:50:10,921
Speaker 1: my sister were in the room and they were sitting

886
00:50:10,921 --> 00:50:12,841
Speaker 1: next to him, and I walked in the room and

887
00:50:12,881 --> 00:50:16,161
Speaker 1: my dad just looked up at me and said, you know,

888
00:50:16,761 --> 00:50:19,321
Speaker 1: where have you been? And I just looked at him

889
00:50:19,321 --> 00:50:21,441
Speaker 1: and I said, Dad, I've been at the Capitol. I've

890
00:50:21,481 --> 00:50:23,721
Speaker 1: been at Washington. I said, but I'm here and I

891
00:50:23,801 --> 00:50:26,001
Speaker 1: have some updates. I want to tell you what happened.

892
00:50:26,641 --> 00:50:29,281
Speaker 1: So I was telling him about how the Senate passed

893
00:50:29,321 --> 00:50:32,361
Speaker 1: the bill to pass the Transparency Act. I told my

894
00:50:32,481 --> 00:50:35,361
Speaker 1: dad how Donald Trump signed off on the bill, so

895
00:50:35,401 --> 00:50:38,241
Speaker 1: now we can reallyase all the files and that Hey, Dad, like,

896
00:50:38,321 --> 00:50:42,161
Speaker 1: look like you're so used to seeing me out and

897
00:50:42,241 --> 00:50:47,121
Speaker 1: down and with hardships, and I'm thinking, I said, now, look,

898
00:50:47,161 --> 00:50:50,121
Speaker 1: the tides are turning. We're getting somewhere. And as I'm

899
00:50:50,161 --> 00:50:52,521
Speaker 1: trying to have this closure with my father and have

900
00:50:52,601 --> 00:50:56,041
Speaker 1: this conversation with my father, my sister's having a tantrum.

901
00:50:56,081 --> 00:50:57,921
Speaker 1: She's like, are you kidding me? This isn't a place

902
00:50:58,001 --> 00:51:00,241
Speaker 1: or time to have these conversations, and she's making all

903
00:51:00,241 --> 00:51:05,881
Speaker 1: these noises inside. Yes, And I went to the funeral,

904
00:51:07,321 --> 00:51:09,481
Speaker 1: and my boyfriend went with me to my dad's funeral,

905
00:51:09,601 --> 00:51:13,281
Speaker 1: and my mom never once gave me a hug. My

906
00:51:13,361 --> 00:51:17,161
Speaker 1: mom never gave me a hug. Shover, there was nothing.

907
00:51:19,081 --> 00:51:24,561
Speaker 1: There was something besides all of the other family drama

908
00:51:25,041 --> 00:51:29,241
Speaker 1: throughout the years, with the violence and the abuse that

909
00:51:29,281 --> 00:51:33,001
Speaker 1: went on with life, getting into fights and stuff with

910
00:51:32,721 --> 00:51:36,681
Speaker 1: my with my mom and my sisters, and after that

911
00:51:36,801 --> 00:51:40,681
Speaker 1: hospital visit, my dad was put in the hospit and

912
00:51:40,721 --> 00:51:43,081
Speaker 1: I remember going to hospital and my dad was like

913
00:51:43,121 --> 00:51:46,361
Speaker 1: in a coma like they were, and I wasn't understanding

914
00:51:46,401 --> 00:51:49,481
Speaker 1: or processing it because nobody explained this part of death

915
00:51:49,561 --> 00:51:52,961
Speaker 1: to me. Nobody explained that when you go to hospice,

916
00:51:52,961 --> 00:51:56,361
Speaker 1: that's it you die. So the lady that works there,

917
00:51:56,441 --> 00:51:58,321
Speaker 1: my dad's nurse, had to sit me downe in the

918
00:51:58,401 --> 00:52:02,121
Speaker 1: office and explained to me what was going on. And

919
00:52:02,161 --> 00:52:05,841
Speaker 1: my daughter's with me. My daughter's hysterically crying. I don't

920
00:52:05,841 --> 00:52:07,721
Speaker 1: know what the fuck is going on at this point

921
00:52:07,841 --> 00:52:11,641
Speaker 1: because nobody's telling me anything. The way they treated me

922
00:52:11,681 --> 00:52:15,441
Speaker 1: when my dad died, that was it for me. That

923
00:52:15,681 --> 00:52:17,441
Speaker 1: was just it for me. That was the cap. I

924
00:52:17,521 --> 00:52:20,321
Speaker 1: was like, you know, you guys were my first bully.

925
00:52:21,281 --> 00:52:24,241
Speaker 1: I mean, my sister terrorized me my entire life. In

926
00:52:24,241 --> 00:52:27,241
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three, I was physically assaulted by my sister

927
00:52:27,281 --> 00:52:31,161
Speaker 1: in front of my daughter. My mom literally was like, oh,

928
00:52:31,201 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 1: I have to move the furniture around so you don't

929
00:52:33,481 --> 00:52:35,761
Speaker 1: break the furniture when you guys fight, and I'm like,

930
00:52:36,161 --> 00:52:38,281
Speaker 1: she's bringing me in the pool to drown me. Mom

931
00:52:38,921 --> 00:52:41,601
Speaker 1: call the fucking police. But then when I did call

932
00:52:41,641 --> 00:52:44,361
Speaker 1: the police, my mom completely lied about the entire incident.

933
00:52:44,481 --> 00:52:46,161
Speaker 1: And it's funny because I was on the phone with

934
00:52:46,241 --> 00:52:50,601
Speaker 1: my therapist, so my therapist had already documented everything. So

935
00:52:50,801 --> 00:52:55,081
Speaker 1: for me, after the way that my dad died and

936
00:52:55,121 --> 00:52:57,841
Speaker 1: the way I was treated with such little compassion, and

937
00:52:57,881 --> 00:53:00,241
Speaker 1: then having all of this be in the media and

938
00:53:00,321 --> 00:53:03,001
Speaker 1: have to go through this all over again and not

939
00:53:03,201 --> 00:53:05,961
Speaker 1: have any support and not have anybody call me. My

940
00:53:06,081 --> 00:53:08,521
Speaker 1: mom and my sister's never once called to check on me,

941
00:53:09,201 --> 00:53:11,641
Speaker 1: never once asked to see if I was okay during

942
00:53:11,961 --> 00:53:16,841
Speaker 1: this whole situation. In fact, my sister had some pretty

943
00:53:16,841 --> 00:53:20,401
Speaker 1: harsh words for me and said, well, you choose to

944
00:53:20,521 --> 00:53:23,881
Speaker 1: go travel and to fly around the country to get

945
00:53:24,121 --> 00:53:26,961
Speaker 1: justice for whatever shit you have going on while dad's dying.

946
00:53:27,001 --> 00:53:29,480
Speaker 1: That was your choice, and shame on you. You should

947
00:53:29,521 --> 00:53:32,441
Speaker 1: have chose your father. That was it for me. I

948
00:53:32,481 --> 00:53:34,440
Speaker 1: was like, you know, I'm just done. You guys are

949
00:53:34,441 --> 00:53:36,801
Speaker 1: never going to understand what happened to me. You're never

950
00:53:36,841 --> 00:53:39,561
Speaker 1: going to understand what I'm trying to accomplish in my life.

951
00:53:39,601 --> 00:53:42,361
Speaker 1: You're never going to understand the predicament that this came

952
00:53:42,401 --> 00:53:46,201
Speaker 1: with When you come from a house with no support

953
00:53:47,081 --> 00:53:52,041
Speaker 1: and no acceptance. That is damaging enough. That's enough for

954
00:53:52,121 --> 00:53:55,161
Speaker 1: me to be like, Eh, these aren't my people. You know.

955
00:53:55,401 --> 00:53:59,481
Speaker 1: Family does not abuse you. Family does not condemn you.

956
00:54:00,321 --> 00:54:04,641
Speaker 1: They don't put you in exile. Family support, They try

957
00:54:04,681 --> 00:54:07,361
Speaker 1: to underderstand. Even if they can't, they show up for you.

958
00:54:08,201 --> 00:54:10,681
Speaker 1: And I got none of that from anybody.

959
00:54:11,841 --> 00:54:13,321
Speaker 3: Have you ever tried to end your life?

960
00:54:14,961 --> 00:54:18,321
Speaker 1: Yeah? I started cutting my wrists when I was sixteen,

961
00:54:19,441 --> 00:54:23,521
Speaker 1: that really, and then I stopped because after the third time,

962
00:54:23,561 --> 00:54:25,681
Speaker 1: I just was like what am I doing? Like this hurts.

963
00:54:25,481 --> 00:54:27,641
Speaker 1: It's like there's got to be an easier way.

964
00:54:28,041 --> 00:54:31,081
Speaker 3: Was not before you met Epstein.

965
00:54:30,921 --> 00:54:37,201
Speaker 1: Stirring the very beginning? Yeah, alcohol, So I would go

966
00:54:37,241 --> 00:54:41,121
Speaker 1: to parties at like fifteen, sixteen years old, seventeen years old,

967
00:54:41,761 --> 00:54:44,401
Speaker 1: and I would drink myself into poison, like into alcohol

968
00:54:44,401 --> 00:54:47,481
Speaker 1: poisoning where I would just be like throwing up. I

969
00:54:47,481 --> 00:54:52,401
Speaker 1: would be like convulsing. And then I think it was

970
00:54:53,281 --> 00:54:59,201
Speaker 1: nineteen I met my boyfriend that was murdered and I

971
00:54:59,241 --> 00:55:02,681
Speaker 1: got off drugs. Ironically he was a drug dealer and

972
00:55:02,721 --> 00:55:08,841
Speaker 1: I got clean. I was told drinking, But that relationship

973
00:55:08,961 --> 00:55:12,481
Speaker 1: changed my life. Even in those three months that I

974
00:55:12,641 --> 00:55:15,601
Speaker 1: was with him, it was very short. It changed my

975
00:55:15,681 --> 00:55:19,561
Speaker 1: perspective on life and on men, because up until him,

976
00:55:19,721 --> 00:55:22,881
Speaker 1: every man I had ever encountered tried to coherse me

977
00:55:22,921 --> 00:55:25,681
Speaker 1: into sex, tried to push me into sex, tried to

978
00:55:25,681 --> 00:55:28,841
Speaker 1: get me into situations I wasn't comfortable being with. And

979
00:55:28,881 --> 00:55:33,321
Speaker 1: then when I met him, it was no, we're not

980
00:55:33,441 --> 00:55:36,761
Speaker 1: doing that, Like, when you're ready, you can come get me.

981
00:55:37,401 --> 00:55:39,761
Speaker 1: And he was also twenty seven and I was nineteen,

982
00:55:40,561 --> 00:55:43,480
Speaker 1: so it was very like, when you're ready, you come,

983
00:55:43,601 --> 00:55:47,041
Speaker 1: let me know and we'll figure that out later. And

984
00:55:47,081 --> 00:55:49,961
Speaker 1: he was the first person that I opened up to

985
00:55:50,081 --> 00:55:56,401
Speaker 1: about Jeffrey and about my abuse. He was nice, He

986
00:55:56,521 --> 00:56:00,161
Speaker 1: was nice to me, He was kind, He would open

987
00:56:00,241 --> 00:56:03,881
Speaker 1: doors for me, offer to pay for things without expecting

988
00:56:03,921 --> 00:56:08,561
Speaker 1: sex in return or like blow jobs in returns, and

989
00:56:08,601 --> 00:56:10,761
Speaker 1: he was just a nice person, like he just loved

990
00:56:10,761 --> 00:56:13,001
Speaker 1: me and just wanted to be in my life, literally,

991
00:56:13,081 --> 00:56:18,321
Speaker 1: and he did everything to protect me. And that three

992
00:56:18,361 --> 00:56:21,401
Speaker 1: months that I spent with him, it was needed because

993
00:56:21,441 --> 00:56:24,440
Speaker 1: I feel like in that short period of time, I

994
00:56:24,561 --> 00:56:27,161
Speaker 1: was able to preview what it was like to be

995
00:56:27,281 --> 00:56:30,001
Speaker 1: with somebody who actually had good intentions for you. And

996
00:56:30,081 --> 00:56:34,081
Speaker 1: actually really did care about you, somebody whose words and

997
00:56:34,201 --> 00:56:35,441
Speaker 1: actions were the same.

998
00:56:35,681 --> 00:56:38,281
Speaker 2: But there went faked. They went fake, like Jeffrey was

999
00:56:38,281 --> 00:56:41,801
Speaker 2: trying to be with you and make you believe everything. Yes, okay,

1000
00:56:42,121 --> 00:56:44,921
Speaker 2: when he died and he was killed, you would have

1001
00:56:44,921 --> 00:56:49,321
Speaker 2: got traumatized. As you said, again, did you because you've

1002
00:56:49,361 --> 00:56:52,561
Speaker 2: got no family and you have nobody. Did it ever

1003
00:56:52,681 --> 00:56:56,481
Speaker 2: enter your mind to go back to Epstein reach out

1004
00:56:56,481 --> 00:56:57,041
Speaker 2: to him.

1005
00:56:57,601 --> 00:57:01,561
Speaker 1: No, no, No, never crossed my mind. No.

1006
00:57:01,841 --> 00:57:04,241
Speaker 2: The only reason I asked that is because the two

1007
00:57:04,281 --> 00:57:07,361
Speaker 2: years you were waving, and I know he abused you

1008
00:57:07,401 --> 00:57:09,041
Speaker 2: and everything like that, But the thing is, it's the

1009
00:57:09,081 --> 00:57:12,801
Speaker 2: closest thing that you had to someone like a father figure.

1010
00:57:13,681 --> 00:57:15,801
Speaker 2: And that's why I'm just asking. Did you get that

1011
00:57:16,241 --> 00:57:18,561
Speaker 2: I've got nobody who to attend to.

1012
00:57:18,681 --> 00:57:19,401
Speaker 3: Do I go back?

1013
00:57:20,121 --> 00:57:22,281
Speaker 1: No? He there would be no way for me to

1014
00:57:22,321 --> 00:57:24,641
Speaker 1: go back, even if I wanted to. He was done

1015
00:57:24,681 --> 00:57:26,121
Speaker 1: with me. I aged out.

1016
00:57:26,481 --> 00:57:29,881
Speaker 3: So the age for him was fifteen to eighteen.

1017
00:57:30,641 --> 00:57:32,601
Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of us aged out, and that's when

1018
00:57:32,601 --> 00:57:34,601
Speaker 1: he would turn you into a recruiter or he would

1019
00:57:34,601 --> 00:57:37,681
Speaker 1: traffic the older girls. You were too old for him,

1020
00:57:38,161 --> 00:57:40,681
Speaker 1: So that never crossed my mind going back to him.

1021
00:57:41,321 --> 00:57:46,161
Speaker 1: But I remember after my boyfriend being murdered, my house

1022
00:57:46,241 --> 00:57:49,601
Speaker 1: was broken into the next day, my aunt my mom

1023
00:57:49,681 --> 00:57:53,081
Speaker 1: came and picked me up that night. I remember them

1024
00:57:53,121 --> 00:57:55,041
Speaker 1: having a conversation. They're like, I hope she's not going

1025
00:57:55,121 --> 00:57:57,241
Speaker 1: to kill herself, right, Like, let's just give her some

1026
00:57:57,441 --> 00:58:00,441
Speaker 1: like pms like ibuproken PM. Let her sleep it through

1027
00:58:00,961 --> 00:58:04,361
Speaker 1: and then we can talk about this tomorrow. And I

1028
00:58:04,441 --> 00:58:08,881
Speaker 1: woke up at my parents' house the next day. I

1029
00:58:08,921 --> 00:58:12,961
Speaker 1: walked into the kitchen, I just started sobbing, like uncontrollab

1030
00:58:12,961 --> 00:58:15,401
Speaker 1: We just started sobbing, and I just looked at my

1031
00:58:15,481 --> 00:58:18,321
Speaker 1: dad and I was like, Brian's not dead, right, Like

1032
00:58:18,361 --> 00:58:21,521
Speaker 1: this is a Joe, This didn't happen. And my dad

1033
00:58:21,601 --> 00:58:25,281
Speaker 1: just looked at me and seems just consoled me. And

1034
00:58:25,761 --> 00:58:27,601
Speaker 1: my mom was like, well, this is what happens when

1035
00:58:27,641 --> 00:58:31,041
Speaker 1: you date drug dealers. So you can kind of see,

1036
00:58:31,081 --> 00:58:33,961
Speaker 1: like why her and I don't have a close relationship

1037
00:58:34,121 --> 00:58:37,001
Speaker 1: is because like her verbiage and her language is very hurtful.

1038
00:58:37,041 --> 00:58:40,281
Speaker 1: Sometimes even if it's the right way that you feel,

1039
00:58:40,401 --> 00:58:43,161
Speaker 1: and maybe that could be true, it doesn't take away

1040
00:58:43,201 --> 00:58:45,801
Speaker 1: or alleviate the pain I was going through. And it

1041
00:58:45,881 --> 00:58:48,561
Speaker 1: wasn't just that time. It was every traumatic experience I've

1042
00:58:48,601 --> 00:58:52,321
Speaker 1: ever had. It's always been those types of responses. And

1043
00:58:52,481 --> 00:58:55,241
Speaker 1: as a young girl, it's like, I don't need you

1044
00:58:55,321 --> 00:58:57,561
Speaker 1: to be combative and to tell me that I'm wrong,

1045
00:58:58,201 --> 00:59:00,361
Speaker 1: Like my boyfriend was just fucking murdered, my house was

1046
00:59:00,401 --> 00:59:02,641
Speaker 1: broken into I just need somebody to hug me and

1047
00:59:02,681 --> 00:59:04,281
Speaker 1: hold me and tell me that I'm gonna be okay.

1048
00:59:05,321 --> 00:59:08,721
Speaker 1: Was always my dad. My dad was always the nurturer,

1049
00:59:09,241 --> 00:59:13,201
Speaker 1: always there, Like he would write letters to me after

1050
00:59:13,281 --> 00:59:15,681
Speaker 1: Brian died, he would write. My dad would write letters

1051
00:59:15,721 --> 00:59:17,441
Speaker 1: to me. I actually have a couple of them, even

1052
00:59:17,481 --> 00:59:21,401
Speaker 1: though the writing you can't see it faded. He would

1053
00:59:21,401 --> 00:59:23,721
Speaker 1: write letters to me and we would talk about life

1054
00:59:23,721 --> 00:59:27,201
Speaker 1: and death. And my dad always used to say, you know,

1055
00:59:28,001 --> 00:59:30,681
Speaker 1: life is for the living. Brian would want you to

1056
00:59:30,721 --> 00:59:33,001
Speaker 1: get married and to have kids and to be happy

1057
00:59:33,081 --> 00:59:34,841
Speaker 1: and to have a job and to be able to

1058
00:59:34,881 --> 00:59:39,001
Speaker 1: be a person. I don't think my dad really understands

1059
00:59:39,281 --> 00:59:42,561
Speaker 1: understood the amount of impact that had on me, because

1060
00:59:42,561 --> 00:59:45,081
Speaker 1: that's what I needed at that time. I needed somebody

1061
00:59:45,121 --> 00:59:47,881
Speaker 1: to parent me and to comfort me, not to be

1062
00:59:48,001 --> 00:59:51,961
Speaker 1: met with criticism and be everly accosted. You know that

1063
00:59:52,121 --> 00:59:53,041
Speaker 1: wasn't necessary.

1064
00:59:54,241 --> 00:59:57,241
Speaker 3: Out of all this, what's your biggest regret?

1065
00:59:58,561 --> 01:00:04,441
Speaker 1: Oh, my biggest regret not making better friends being in

1066
01:00:04,521 --> 01:00:08,641
Speaker 1: high school and not choosing better people to surround myself with,

1067
01:00:09,561 --> 01:00:12,721
Speaker 1: not putting myself out there to make friends with other

1068
01:00:12,841 --> 01:00:16,001
Speaker 1: people that perhaps didn't go to parties and didn't drink

1069
01:00:16,041 --> 01:00:20,921
Speaker 1: and didn't do drugs. And I regret not having sound

1070
01:00:21,161 --> 01:00:25,921
Speaker 1: individuals with good morals around me, because if I did,

1071
01:00:26,321 --> 01:00:29,161
Speaker 1: I would never have gone and been raped. I would

1072
01:00:29,161 --> 01:00:31,441
Speaker 1: never have been drinking. I would never have been living

1073
01:00:31,481 --> 01:00:33,881
Speaker 1: the high life or the fast life, as my dad

1074
01:00:33,881 --> 01:00:36,881
Speaker 1: would call it. I think if I had better friends

1075
01:00:36,921 --> 01:00:41,481
Speaker 1: and better people around me, and a better support system,

1076
01:00:42,001 --> 01:00:43,881
Speaker 1: I think it would have made the world a difference

1077
01:00:44,281 --> 01:00:45,561
Speaker 1: in my life.

1078
01:00:46,201 --> 01:00:48,161
Speaker 3: What made you want to speak out about it?

1079
01:00:49,721 --> 01:00:54,601
Speaker 1: I was not given immunity. I was not given a voice.

1080
01:00:54,801 --> 01:00:57,961
Speaker 1: I was not giving a platform to explain myself or

1081
01:00:58,041 --> 01:01:00,521
Speaker 1: my role in all of this. I was not given

1082
01:01:00,601 --> 01:01:04,001
Speaker 1: benefit of the doubt. I was not given security, I

1083
01:01:04,081 --> 01:01:09,601
Speaker 1: was not given protect I was given nothing, and they

1084
01:01:09,641 --> 01:01:16,361
Speaker 1: took everything from me. And I was pregnant seven months,

1085
01:01:16,481 --> 01:01:18,881
Speaker 1: I was in the shower. I was high risk. There

1086
01:01:18,961 --> 01:01:22,241
Speaker 1: was a chance I could lose a baby. And I

1087
01:01:22,281 --> 01:01:24,961
Speaker 1: remember sitting in my shower, the hot water running over me,

1088
01:01:25,001 --> 01:01:29,041
Speaker 1: and I was just hysterically crying, begging God, crying begging them,

1089
01:01:29,081 --> 01:01:34,801
Speaker 1: screaming God, see if you can somehow make the child

1090
01:01:34,841 --> 01:01:38,961
Speaker 1: in my belly safe and healthy and just, I will

1091
01:01:38,961 --> 01:01:42,161
Speaker 1: turn my life around. I will allow you to use me,

1092
01:01:42,881 --> 01:01:45,521
Speaker 1: I will allow you to work through me. I will

1093
01:01:45,521 --> 01:01:48,841
Speaker 1: do whatever I can to write my wrongs in any capacity.

1094
01:01:50,201 --> 01:01:54,561
Speaker 1: And so I decided that the only way to get

1095
01:01:54,601 --> 01:01:56,921
Speaker 1: through what I was going through, I had to walk

1096
01:01:56,961 --> 01:01:59,361
Speaker 1: through it, and I had to be accountable for my actions.

1097
01:01:59,881 --> 01:02:05,601
Speaker 1: So I had my daughter. She's healthy, she's beautiful, thriving.

1098
01:02:06,361 --> 01:02:09,521
Speaker 1: So I kept my promise to what I had said

1099
01:02:09,521 --> 01:02:12,881
Speaker 1: in that shower, and I started on a local level

1100
01:02:12,921 --> 01:02:16,121
Speaker 1: with local media, the LEE or t CBS, things like that.

1101
01:02:16,201 --> 01:02:19,121
Speaker 1: On a local level with my therapist, and then I

1102
01:02:19,161 --> 01:02:22,921
Speaker 1: started getting booked for conferences to be the keynote speaker.

1103
01:02:23,601 --> 01:02:27,761
Speaker 1: And then as I was doing my own advocacy work

1104
01:02:27,881 --> 01:02:33,521
Speaker 1: in West Palm Beach, my attorneys decided, let's do a nonprofit.

1105
01:02:34,281 --> 01:02:37,321
Speaker 1: And I thought to myself, this is where I need

1106
01:02:37,321 --> 01:02:39,601
Speaker 1: to be, this is my purpose. I need to share

1107
01:02:39,641 --> 01:02:44,321
Speaker 1: my life and share my experiences as a child. And

1108
01:02:44,401 --> 01:02:47,641
Speaker 1: I need to be truthful and open and honest, no

1109
01:02:47,721 --> 01:02:50,641
Speaker 1: matter how ugly some of the parts of my story are,

1110
01:02:50,761 --> 01:02:53,521
Speaker 1: or how complicit some people may think I am. The

1111
01:02:53,641 --> 01:02:56,561
Speaker 1: truth is the most important thing, and so is integrity.

1112
01:02:57,241 --> 01:03:00,521
Speaker 1: And so I decided that I am going to keep

1113
01:03:00,601 --> 01:03:06,041
Speaker 1: talking until they kill me, because out there is a

1114
01:03:06,121 --> 01:03:10,281
Speaker 1: sixteen year old girl in a very similar predicament and

1115
01:03:10,361 --> 01:03:13,681
Speaker 1: she has no one. And if I can just reach

1116
01:03:13,841 --> 01:03:18,561
Speaker 1: one person to change their mind or to educate them

1117
01:03:18,561 --> 01:03:20,641
Speaker 1: on what's going to be their future if they don't

1118
01:03:20,681 --> 01:03:23,521
Speaker 1: make better choices as a child, this is what's going

1119
01:03:23,601 --> 01:03:25,161
Speaker 1: to happen. And that's what I do.

1120
01:03:25,881 --> 01:03:29,841
Speaker 2: What hits you more about your life, what's happened in

1121
01:03:29,881 --> 01:03:32,081
Speaker 2: your past, what hurts you the most.

1122
01:03:32,841 --> 01:03:37,441
Speaker 1: My mother, my mother, I tried. I wanted to have

1123
01:03:37,481 --> 01:03:40,881
Speaker 1: a different relationship with her and my sisters, and my

1124
01:03:41,001 --> 01:03:44,521
Speaker 1: therapist will attest to this. I was always the peacemaker.

1125
01:03:44,561 --> 01:03:46,801
Speaker 1: I was always the one apologizing for things that I

1126
01:03:46,801 --> 01:03:49,521
Speaker 1: should never ever even had to apologize. I got physically

1127
01:03:49,521 --> 01:03:52,241
Speaker 1: assaulted and my own house in front of my mother

1128
01:03:52,281 --> 01:03:55,681
Speaker 1: and my daughter, and I had to apologize. I had

1129
01:03:55,721 --> 01:03:59,201
Speaker 1: to apologize just to keep the peace because my dad

1130
01:03:59,241 --> 01:04:00,761
Speaker 1: at that point was still alive and I was like,

1131
01:04:00,761 --> 01:04:03,321
Speaker 1: all right, we got to just make things work. When

1132
01:04:03,361 --> 01:04:05,961
Speaker 1: he died, I just felt like I don't have anyone

1133
01:04:06,041 --> 01:04:08,521
Speaker 1: else to keep the peace with. Fuck you guys, like

1134
01:04:09,001 --> 01:04:11,121
Speaker 1: you guys should have been there for me, and you

1135
01:04:11,121 --> 01:04:13,081
Speaker 1: should have protected me, and if you couldn't protect me,

1136
01:04:13,121 --> 01:04:16,361
Speaker 1: you should at least be supporting me now. But it

1137
01:04:16,401 --> 01:04:18,601
Speaker 1: was my mom. She was the biggest disappointment for me.

1138
01:04:18,921 --> 01:04:22,081
Speaker 1: I deserved better. I felt like I really did. And

1139
01:04:23,321 --> 01:04:25,681
Speaker 1: I heard this saying, and I think it's so true.

1140
01:04:27,001 --> 01:04:29,481
Speaker 1: Sometimes we do the best we can, but we have

1141
01:04:29,561 --> 01:04:31,721
Speaker 1: to understand that sometimes the best we can do is

1142
01:04:31,761 --> 01:04:35,081
Speaker 1: not the best. It's not good enough. I love my

1143
01:04:35,161 --> 01:04:37,321
Speaker 1: mother to death, and I know she means well, and

1144
01:04:37,361 --> 01:04:40,961
Speaker 1: I know you know she has her own way. But

1145
01:04:41,081 --> 01:04:43,481
Speaker 1: this is what generational trauma looks like when you don't

1146
01:04:43,521 --> 01:04:46,441
Speaker 1: feel for me. And this is why I chose my

1147
01:04:46,561 --> 01:04:49,081
Speaker 1: mental health over my family, and this is why I

1148
01:04:49,201 --> 01:04:52,201
Speaker 1: chose therapy, and this is why I will not give

1149
01:04:52,281 --> 01:04:56,361
Speaker 1: up because my daughter deserves the healthy mother. My daughter

1150
01:04:56,441 --> 01:04:59,001
Speaker 1: deserves better than what I was given. And that's the plan.

1151
01:04:59,361 --> 01:05:02,961
Speaker 1: And one day when my daughter's capable and mature enough.

1152
01:05:03,001 --> 01:05:04,841
Speaker 1: I will sit down and explain everything to her and

1153
01:05:05,041 --> 01:05:07,961
Speaker 1: the right manner, in the right setting. But for now,

1154
01:05:08,001 --> 01:05:10,601
Speaker 1: I'm going to let her think that I'm out here

1155
01:05:11,521 --> 01:05:13,161
Speaker 1: with Batman saving golf.

1156
01:05:13,681 --> 01:05:15,681
Speaker 3: You know, when was the last time you've never seen

1157
01:05:15,841 --> 01:05:16,241
Speaker 3: your daughter?

1158
01:05:17,161 --> 01:05:20,081
Speaker 1: Two months? A funeral? Three months.

1159
01:05:20,121 --> 01:05:21,721
Speaker 3: But besides that, she has nothing to do.

1160
01:05:22,601 --> 01:05:25,121
Speaker 1: No didn't even reach out for her for New Years

1161
01:05:25,761 --> 01:05:28,841
Speaker 1: or Christmas. She reached out and said happy Birthday, and

1162
01:05:28,841 --> 01:05:32,361
Speaker 1: that was it. And that was in January. And that's

1163
01:05:32,401 --> 01:05:34,841
Speaker 1: the other part of it, is like I never told

1164
01:05:34,881 --> 01:05:37,521
Speaker 1: you that you couldn't have a relationship with my daughter.

1165
01:05:38,081 --> 01:05:41,201
Speaker 1: But see, you have to understand my daughter's twelve. So

1166
01:05:41,401 --> 01:05:44,081
Speaker 1: my daughter has seen a lot of the toxicity unfold

1167
01:05:44,081 --> 01:05:47,721
Speaker 1: in front of her. And this is a generational curse

1168
01:05:47,721 --> 01:05:50,761
Speaker 1: that I talk about is my daughter came to me

1169
01:05:50,881 --> 01:05:52,881
Speaker 1: because originally I was living with my mom and dad

1170
01:05:52,961 --> 01:05:55,001
Speaker 1: before my dad passed and I was trying to save

1171
01:05:55,081 --> 01:05:57,561
Speaker 1: up money to buy a house. I ended up buying

1172
01:05:57,561 --> 01:06:02,481
Speaker 1: a house, and when I was house shopping, my daughter

1173
01:06:02,561 --> 01:06:04,921
Speaker 1: came to me and she was just completely in tears,

1174
01:06:05,041 --> 01:06:06,801
Speaker 1: and I was like, I don't want to live here anymore.

1175
01:06:07,401 --> 01:06:09,601
Speaker 1: I don't feel comfortable, I don't like the way they

1176
01:06:09,641 --> 01:06:12,121
Speaker 1: talk to you. I just don't want to be here anymore.

1177
01:06:13,201 --> 01:06:17,121
Speaker 1: And that is what basically lit the fire under my

1178
01:06:17,281 --> 01:06:21,521
Speaker 1: app to pull the trigger on buying a home. And

1179
01:06:21,761 --> 01:06:23,881
Speaker 1: I was like, you know what, I got to get

1180
01:06:23,881 --> 01:06:25,401
Speaker 1: it done, and it's just got to be done so

1181
01:06:25,481 --> 01:06:27,121
Speaker 1: I can get my daughter into a place where she's

1182
01:06:27,161 --> 01:06:31,361
Speaker 1: comfortable because she wasn't comfortable. But that's the part of parents,

1183
01:06:31,401 --> 01:06:33,801
Speaker 1: and you have to listen when your children speak to you,

1184
01:06:34,401 --> 01:06:37,001
Speaker 1: and when your children come to you and they say

1185
01:06:37,201 --> 01:06:40,961
Speaker 1: I'm not comfortable with it or I don't feel safe

1186
01:06:41,081 --> 01:06:44,241
Speaker 1: in this environment. As a parent and as an adult,

1187
01:06:44,241 --> 01:06:47,521
Speaker 1: it's up to you to fix that. You have to

1188
01:06:47,561 --> 01:06:51,041
Speaker 1: fix it. It's not the child's problem. It's not the

1189
01:06:51,121 --> 01:06:53,841
Speaker 1: child's responsibility to fix it. It's you as a parent.

1190
01:06:54,281 --> 01:06:57,521
Speaker 1: So going to therapy is not just about addressing my trauma.

1191
01:06:58,201 --> 01:07:01,801
Speaker 1: It's about addressing what a healthy relationship between a mother

1192
01:07:01,841 --> 01:07:04,881
Speaker 1: and daughter looks like so I can project that on

1193
01:07:05,161 --> 01:07:09,521
Speaker 1: my child. And going to therapy too is learning. You know,

1194
01:07:09,641 --> 01:07:12,241
Speaker 1: something that we don't talk about in the human trafficking

1195
01:07:12,721 --> 01:07:15,721
Speaker 1: or exploitation world of sexual abuse is what does it

1196
01:07:15,761 --> 01:07:18,961
Speaker 1: look like in a relationship, how are you showing up

1197
01:07:19,001 --> 01:07:22,121
Speaker 1: for your husband or your boyfriend? How are you showing

1198
01:07:22,201 --> 01:07:25,521
Speaker 1: up in a way that like you're not blaming them

1199
01:07:25,601 --> 01:07:28,681
Speaker 1: for being triggered by certain things, because ultimately being triggered

1200
01:07:28,681 --> 01:07:30,801
Speaker 1: that falls on you. You have to learn to cope

1201
01:07:30,801 --> 01:07:33,601
Speaker 1: with that. You have to address your own triggers. Nobody

1202
01:07:33,641 --> 01:07:36,601
Speaker 1: should ever walk on eggshells. But so all of this

1203
01:07:36,841 --> 01:07:40,721
Speaker 1: going into therapy, it's really I feel benefiting me a

1204
01:07:40,761 --> 01:07:43,801
Speaker 1: lot because I'm understanding of what all these healthy, different

1205
01:07:43,841 --> 01:07:46,601
Speaker 1: roles look like, which is something I've never seen before.

1206
01:07:47,201 --> 01:07:52,641
Speaker 1: So I'm learning as about of myself in the seven

1207
01:07:52,721 --> 01:07:56,201
Speaker 1: years that I've been healing, and that's how you heal.

1208
01:07:56,281 --> 01:07:58,921
Speaker 1: You have to walk through it. There's no going around it.

1209
01:07:59,721 --> 01:08:04,121
Speaker 3: Before we go, describe yourself in one wood.

1210
01:08:05,561 --> 01:08:06,001
Speaker 1: In Flack.

1211
01:08:07,961 --> 01:08:11,881
Speaker 3: If you've been a stop before, that was quick off

1212
01:08:11,881 --> 01:08:12,561
Speaker 3: the mark. That one.

1213
01:08:14,561 --> 01:08:21,041
Speaker 1: It's like fighting into a chocolate chip cookie. But it's

1214
01:08:21,081 --> 01:08:25,241
Speaker 1: really like an oatmeal raisin. You know, it's it's surprised

1215
01:08:25,281 --> 01:08:29,521
Speaker 1: after surprise. It's I am a very complex person. I'm

1216
01:08:29,601 --> 01:08:33,561
Speaker 1: very deep. I'm emotionally a very deep, complex person. But

1217
01:08:34,841 --> 01:08:37,641
Speaker 1: but I'm a happy person. Now you look I'm happy.

1218
01:08:37,841 --> 01:08:40,241
Speaker 3: You do look happy, but I can see the troll

1219
01:08:40,881 --> 01:08:41,561
Speaker 3: that you've been through.

1220
01:08:41,601 --> 01:08:43,561
Speaker 2: I can see it, but I can see a smile

1221
01:08:43,641 --> 01:08:45,201
Speaker 2: coming out out of the tunnel.

1222
01:08:45,201 --> 01:08:46,441
Speaker 3: Now that's a good thing.

1223
01:08:46,601 --> 01:08:46,801
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1224
01:08:47,241 --> 01:08:49,521
Speaker 2: I want to say thank you so much for sharing

1225
01:08:49,561 --> 01:08:51,921
Speaker 2: your story, though really, I really appreciate you coming on

1226
01:08:51,921 --> 01:08:56,401
Speaker 2: my podcast, and and I'm so happy that I was

1227
01:08:56,481 --> 01:08:59,961
Speaker 2: waiting for a long time for this because you know,

1228
01:09:00,041 --> 01:09:01,680
Speaker 2: I know you've been busy and all like that.

1229
01:09:01,641 --> 01:09:04,521
Speaker 3: And I appreciate your time. But thank you so much

1230
01:09:04,561 --> 01:09:05,601
Speaker 3: for coming on podcast.

1231
01:09:06,321 --> 01:09:08,961
Speaker 1: Well, thank you for having me, and I'm excited. Thank

1232
01:09:08,961 --> 01:09:27,961
Speaker 1: you so much. M