1 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: From the newsroom and used to come to Gooday there, 2 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: I'm Andrew Bucklow. 3 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 2: A couple of weeks ago, Israel reportedly targeted a boat 4 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 2: full of civilians, including Greta Tunberg, as they tried to 5 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 2: sail to Gaza. 6 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 3: We've been hat I the vessels on fire. 7 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:22,119 Speaker 2: Today's episode you'll hear from the man whose voice you 8 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 2: just heard. He'll tell us what really happened at sea 9 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 2: and what Greta, the world's most famous activist, is really 10 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:36,839 Speaker 2: like behind the scenes. Yusuf Omarra is a journalist who 11 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 2: joined hundreds of others, including Greta Tunberg, on a flow 12 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:43,159 Speaker 2: tiller to deliver humanitarian aid to Gaza in September. He 13 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 2: joins me now to tell me all about it. Good day, Yusuf. 14 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:46,519 Speaker 3: How's it going. Good see you? 15 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 2: Good to see you to start with, tell me more 16 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 2: about the aim of this flow tiller and why you 17 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 2: wanted to be a part of it. 18 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 3: Humanitarian corridor. 19 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: So basically, there is about two million people in Gaza 20 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: and they've had no access to food, medicine, and baby formula, 21 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 1: just the basics of survival. Soon after October seventh, the 22 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 1: Israeli Defense forces came out on camera. You'll remember there's 23 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:10,960 Speaker 1: a press conference and they said we're not going to 24 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 1: allow food and water and fuel Intigaza, and to be 25 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 1: fair to them, they did exactly that. So this mission 26 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,119 Speaker 1: was saying, hey, you know what, governments aren't doing anything, 27 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 1: inter national navies are not doing anything, the United Nations 28 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 1: not doing anything. Can every day people get a bunch 29 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 1: of old boats ships and just do it themselves? Can 30 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:33,960 Speaker 1: I literally ship across the Mediterranean and deliver some food 31 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:34,959 Speaker 1: to people that need it most? 32 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 2: So the flotilla left from Spain at the start of September. 33 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:39,679 Speaker 2: There are about twenty vessels in total, more than three 34 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:42,399 Speaker 2: hundred and fifty people on board, including Greta Timberg, who's 35 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:45,400 Speaker 2: just twenty two years old. When you first met Greta, 36 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 2: what struck you about her? I mean, did anything surprise you? 37 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 1: Greta is single handedly the most inspirational woman I've ever met. 38 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 3: She is just twenty two years. 39 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: Old, but is incredibly smart, incredibly wise, incredibly articulate, Like 40 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 1: everything that comes out of her mouth you want to 41 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: write it down. 42 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 2: Was she as you expected her to be, though? Or 43 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 2: was something about her surprising? 44 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 1: I think in some ways she's this like a funny 45 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 1: mix of like incredibly mature and articulate and a great leader, 46 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 1: but at the same time she's still just twenty two 47 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 1: years old, so you know, she'd use language like slay 48 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:22,679 Speaker 1: and I don't use language like slay because I'm old, 49 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 1: but it will be like, hey, we're you know, we're 50 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: arriving in on the Tuannisian ports and in the next 51 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 1: five hours and. 52 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 3: She's like slay. 53 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: So there's this whole like meme language that Greta has 54 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 1: that like I had to very quickly try and learn. 55 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:41,079 Speaker 2: She is arguably the most recognizable activist in the world. 56 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 2: I mean, did she have security with her when she 57 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:44,640 Speaker 2: was part of this flotilla? 58 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 3: Man, it's the opposite. She was the security. 59 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: The whole idea is because this is a very high 60 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:53,239 Speaker 1: risk mission. Remember in twenty ten there was a similar 61 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 1: flotilla attempt where a bunch of aid workers from about 62 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:58,519 Speaker 1: thirty countries made their way to Gaza. Because of course 63 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:00,639 Speaker 1: there's been a siege a long time before October seven, 64 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:02,679 Speaker 1: so there was a previous effort in twenty ten, a 65 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 1: flotillo mission, and in that instance, the Israeli Defense forces 66 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: actually boarded the boat and ten people were shot and 67 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:12,639 Speaker 1: killed nine on location and one later. So it's a 68 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 1: very very high risk mission, and one of the ways 69 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 1: to keep the mission safe is to have high profile 70 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 1: people like Rettenburg and maximum international attention and visibility so 71 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 1: that it would be too embarrassing to politically disastrous for 72 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 1: something like that to happen again. So in many respects, 73 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 1: Greta doesn't have security. She is the security. Her being 74 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 1: on the vessel makes the vessel safer. And I was 75 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 1: so glad to find out that I was on the 76 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: same boat as her. 77 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 2: I can imagine what were conditions like on those flow 78 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 2: tiller boats as you made your way from Spain towards Garza. 79 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 3: It's awful, man. 80 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 1: I mean, there is a bunch of civilians with basically 81 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 1: no training, most of them no experience. 82 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 3: Going on a mission like this. 83 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 1: You're traveling three thousand kilometers across the Mediterranean, in my case, 84 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: vomiting my lungs out. I look like the exorsus, just 85 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 1: like big waves, big winds. You're in the sun for 86 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: sixteen hours a day. Of course, everything that I'm discussed 87 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 1: describing is nothing in comparison to what the people of 88 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: Pals nine go through. 89 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 3: On a daily basis. But the conditions are really nasty. 90 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 3: It's really hard, and then on the top of that. 91 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:23,360 Speaker 1: You are continuously fearing for any repercussions that the Israelis 92 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:25,039 Speaker 1: might have on these vessels. Are they going to attack 93 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 1: the vessels, are they going to intercept these vessels. 94 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 3: It's important to stay at the time that what we 95 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 3: were doing was not. 96 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 1: Illegal, like it is perfectly legal to deliver humanitarian aide 97 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 1: to a siege population. In fact, it's illegal for Israel 98 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 1: or anybody to try and stop permission like that. But yeah, 99 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 1: a combination of weather storms and just the general fear 100 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 1: because remember there's also no like, there's no happy end 101 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 1: to a story like this, Like you're either gonna get 102 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 1: attacked by the Israeli defense force. You're either gonna get 103 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:54,840 Speaker 1: stopped by them, which is also really scary, or you're 104 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 1: gonna make it to Gaza, and then you've arrived in 105 00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: in what's being described as a genocide. So like, no 106 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 1: matter how this mission goes down, that there's only scary 107 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:03,280 Speaker 1: outcomes at the end of it. 108 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 3: And I think that's what makes it so weird, is. 109 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: That you're heading on a journey towards an inevitably dark destination. 110 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 2: Well, let's talk about a terrifying incident that happened about 111 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:13,160 Speaker 2: a week and a half into the trip. So some 112 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 2: of the flow tiller boats were moored off the coast 113 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 2: of Two Knees, the capital of Tunisia. Tell us what 114 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 2: happened next from your point of view, Yusuf, Yeah, so we. 115 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 1: Took turns to look after the boats. You've got to 116 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: look after them because there's a chance that they could 117 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 1: be sabotaged. And I went out to do like a 118 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: night shift with about five other people, and I went 119 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 1: to bed on the top deck at nine pm and 120 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:34,039 Speaker 1: at eleven pm I heard a massive explosion. 121 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 3: Woke up. 122 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 1: There was fire all around. The vessel had been hit 123 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 1: by a drone, which is now being confirmed by CBS 124 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:44,160 Speaker 1: to be an Israeli drone strike, which was deployed from 125 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 1: a submarine under direct construction from begam Manetti Yaho Man, 126 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 1: I'd never be so scared in my whole life. I 127 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 1: was screaming, and you know when you're like in a 128 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: dream and you scream as loud as you can, but 129 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 1: it feels like nothing's coming out. That's the only way 130 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: I could describe it. Smoke right in front of our 131 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: eyes couldn't even see two meters in front of you. 132 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 2: We've been there, We've been hit. We're on the float 133 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 2: till the vessel. 134 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 1: Should we get in the water. 135 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 2: We've been hit. 136 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:11,039 Speaker 1: Why what appears to be a drone. The vessel is 137 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:14,280 Speaker 1: on fire. The drone had struck right in the front 138 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 1: of the vessel, right next to our diesel tanker, and 139 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 1: I was terrified that this whole thing was going to 140 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:20,559 Speaker 1: catch on, fly at fire and explode the entire vessel. 141 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:23,039 Speaker 1: I screamed for the crew, managed to wake up the 142 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 1: captain and then they woke up, got fire extinguishers and 143 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 1: were able to put out the fire. 144 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:30,280 Speaker 3: Absolutely horrifying, horrifying. 145 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:34,599 Speaker 1: And remember this was still like over a thousand kilometers 146 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: away from Gaza in Tunisian waters. Nothing we none of 147 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 1: us expected to be attacked, let alone this far away. 148 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:46,479 Speaker 1: But again it's not unprecedented. Earlier this year, Greta Tunberg 149 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:48,919 Speaker 1: was part of another floatal of mission. Because remember this 150 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:50,720 Speaker 1: was the thirty eighth flot of the mission. There's been 151 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 1: many flotillers that have happened over the years, and earlier 152 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 1: this year on Greta's previous mission, they were also hit 153 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: by a very similar drone strike, so it tracks. 154 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:01,040 Speaker 2: I think it's worthwhile repeating just what you mentioned there. 155 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 2: So at first two Nisian authorities denied it was a 156 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 2: drone attack, but as you said, a few weeks ago, 157 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 2: to American intelligence officials reportedly told CBS News it was 158 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 2: a military operation approved by Benjamin Etna, who with those 159 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 2: drawns launched from a submarine. I mean, I know a 160 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 2: little bit about your use. If I know you've got 161 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 2: a family, you've got a young son, did you think about, 162 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 2: you know, ending it right there and then and going 163 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 2: you know, I've just survived one attack. I can't keep 164 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 2: going now. 165 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 3: The complete opposite happened. 166 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: I think that all of the activists after that drone 167 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 1: strike were more determined. Isn't all think that by conducting 168 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 1: attack like this that they scare away the aid workers? 169 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: And I think this was designed to be a scare 170 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 1: tactic obviously, Like if they wanted to sink the ship, 171 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: they could easily do it, right, They dropped two thousand 172 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: pound bombs on civilian populations and guys on a regular basis. 173 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 3: This was not an effort to sink the ship. This 174 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 3: was an effort to scare people. But that's all. 175 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: They have, they only have aggression and violence and weapons. 176 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 1: That whereas we had the rest of the world support 177 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: right forty four country delegations, We've got millions of people 178 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 1: around the world that are sharing and commenting and creating 179 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 1: so much attention and love behind this mission, so it 180 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: didn't attract, it didn't scare people the way at all. 181 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 2: There was so much love for this mission. On social media. 182 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 2: You shared daily videos from the flow Tiller. They were very, 183 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 2: very popular, millions of views, especially the ones with Greater 184 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 2: Tunberg in them. You obviously got to spend a lot 185 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 2: of time with Greta. If you were telling a dinner 186 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 2: party story about Greater Tunberg. One moment from the voyage 187 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 2: that really stuck with you, what would it be? 188 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 3: You know? I mentioned the really bad conditions. 189 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:33,080 Speaker 1: On one of the days, the wind was so severe 190 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: it actually blew Greta Tunberg's hat into the ocean, and 191 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:39,439 Speaker 1: we put out a little post on social media saying, hey, 192 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 1: Greta's lost. 193 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 3: It's an iconic. 194 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 1: Green frog hat to little ears, So Greta's lost our hat. 195 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: We're heading into Tennis. If anybody's got one, please bring it. 196 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:52,119 Speaker 1: And when we arrived in Tennis, there were like thousands 197 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 1: of people on the shores because everyone's really passionate about Palestine. 198 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 1: But somehow a bunch of families managed to worm their 199 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:00,440 Speaker 1: way through the crowds and all of them would these 200 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 1: green frog hats and giving them to Greta And I 201 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 1: don't know where they got them from into. 202 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 3: This, Like some of them were from stores. 203 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:08,959 Speaker 1: Some of them looked like they were handmade or sewn 204 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 1: or woven together. And like, within like twenty minutes, I 205 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:15,079 Speaker 1: just saw Gresso with like this mountain of like green 206 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: frog hats, like people were just slapping them one to 207 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 1: her head and she had like too many to know 208 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:21,199 Speaker 1: what to do, and they've actually gave me one of them. 209 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: And like that's a cute story for me because it 210 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 1: really speaks to global solidarity. It speaks to like a cute, 211 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 1: little small thing like oh, I've lost my hat, can 212 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 1: any be help me? And then random people coming together 213 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: to help and to do the right thing and to 214 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 1: support each other. And that's almost like a metaphor for 215 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:37,959 Speaker 1: the float to learn itself right. The majority of the 216 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 1: people that were on that mission were not like Arab 217 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 1: or they were not Muslim. They're from all the world Brazilians, Chilians, 218 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 1: and they've got no skin in the gate. They're not 219 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:48,319 Speaker 1: connected to this like Palestine story. They're not religiously or 220 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 1: ethnically linked to it. They're just fellow human beings that 221 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:53,440 Speaker 1: are like, Wow, this is pretty messed up what's going on? 222 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:55,320 Speaker 3: And imagine if we lose that. 223 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 1: Imagine if we enter a world where we stop caring 224 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: about each other, where we're like, not my problem, like 225 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 1: somebody else will deal with that. I wouldn't want to 226 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 1: live in that world. I wouldn't want my kids to 227 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: grow up in that world because I naive if we 228 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:10,680 Speaker 1: think that, like our stable lives are always going to 229 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: continue that way, especially at the way that the world 230 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,560 Speaker 1: is evolving and policy is changing. Like it's the children 231 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:17,319 Speaker 1: of Gaza today, it could be our children tomorrow, and 232 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 1: I'd hope that people on the other side of the 233 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 1: world would do the same for us. 234 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 2: Stick around in just a moment, we're going to find 235 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 2: out what happened when Israeli forces intercepted the flow Tiller. 236 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 2: Welcome back, I am chatting to useuf Omar. Now you 237 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 2: were part of the flow Tiller for a couple of weeks, 238 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 2: but your journey came to an end mid September. Why 239 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 2: did you get off the boat then before it got 240 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:45,959 Speaker 2: close to Gaza? What happened? 241 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't want to stop. I mean I was 242 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:50,440 Speaker 1: really upset and I was really passionate about this mission. 243 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 1: There was a feeling that basically we had too much 244 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 1: attention on our video content. As you said, we were 245 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:58,560 Speaker 1: really gaining a lot of traction and bringing a lot 246 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 1: of eyeballs to the mission, and were trying to that 247 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 1: because visibility was effectively a form of defense. The more 248 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 1: attention we could bring, the less likely we felt Israel 249 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: wad to sabotage this mission. But at the same time, 250 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 1: you don't want to detract away from the actual story, 251 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 1: which is Gaza, right, which is millions of people that 252 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 1: are being actively bombed on a daily basis, people that 253 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 1: are being starved. And there was a feeling that all 254 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 1: the attention had now shifted purely to the flotilla and 255 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 1: away from the genocide itself. So some members of the 256 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 1: flotilla made a decision that it was better for CTV 257 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 1: and useuf Omar to work from land and refocus our 258 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 1: efforts and energy on covering Gaza itself. 259 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 2: So the flotilla arrived near Gaza in early October. They 260 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:40,439 Speaker 2: are about one hundred and ten kilometers off the coast 261 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 2: of Gaza when they were intercepted in international waters by 262 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 2: Israeli forces, who then boarded the boats and detained those 263 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:47,440 Speaker 2: on board. 264 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 1: This is Israeli needing. 265 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 2: You are croaching a blockaded or new developments in just 266 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 2: the last hour or so where Israeli troops have started 267 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 2: intercepting this flotilla. I want to show you live look 268 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:03,680 Speaker 2: Israeli naval vessels insirky boat loads of activists then climbing aboard, 269 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 2: cutting off communication and taking hundreds into custody. What if 270 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:12,599 Speaker 2: people told you about that day, because it must have 271 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 2: been pretty scary for them. 272 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 3: It was horrendous. 273 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 1: I mean, there was CCTV footage live streamed showing the 274 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 1: Israeli's springs what they call skunk water, which is like 275 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:24,079 Speaker 1: this kind of water that makes you want to vomit 276 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 1: onto the vessels. The participants were arrested and I must 277 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 1: emphasize illegally. 278 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 3: It is illegal to stop. 279 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 1: We should say illegal interception, not just an interception. They 280 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 1: were effectively bound their hands. They were left for six 281 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 1: hours in an kneeling position. They were taken out to 282 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:46,960 Speaker 1: what Israel call a terrorist prison several hours into the desert. 283 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 1: They were held for multiple days. There were reports of 284 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 1: torture of various forms. There was reports that they were 285 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:57,840 Speaker 1: made to drink water from the toilets that was a 286 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 1: murky water, had heart conditions, weren't given access to their medication. 287 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 2: You mentioned reports that have you been able to actually 288 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 2: chat to any of the flotilla participants who were held 289 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:10,839 Speaker 2: by Israel or are you just getting your information from 290 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 2: the reports? 291 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:14,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I've had regular correspondents with people that were 292 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 1: on my boat. 293 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 2: Now, there's a video I want to ask you about 294 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:20,599 Speaker 2: just quickly that shows flotilla participants throwing their phones overboard 295 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 2: as the Israeli forces intercepted them. Can you explain that 296 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 2: for us? Why did they ditch their phones? 297 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 3: Yeah? 298 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: Throwing the phones overboard is a controversial one in some respects, 299 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 1: and there was a lot of discussions about how it 300 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 1: could be perceived negatively, But there's a really important reason why. Obviously, 301 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:40,199 Speaker 1: when creating a flotilla mission of this nature, there's a 302 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 1: lot of correspondence in communication that happens between various people 303 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:46,079 Speaker 1: both on the vessel and off the vessel, and it's 304 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 1: really important to keep that messaging from the Israelis effectively, right. 305 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 1: You don't want to compromise the communications channels that you're in, 306 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 1: especially if you're planning to launch future missions. I think 307 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 1: the other side, and I'll say this on a personal level. 308 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 1: I mean, you remember less than twelve months ago, Israel 309 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:06,560 Speaker 1: deployed the pager attack in Lebanon, where a bunch of 310 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: pages were booby trapped with explosives distributed to people across Lebanon, 311 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 1: and then they were exploded at a coordinated time, and 312 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 1: so so many people praised that. It's like, hey, this 313 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 1: is such a great tactical attack, but the reality is 314 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 1: people were on in cars with family members and grocery 315 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 1: stores and like, there were tons and tons of civilians 316 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 1: that were either lost their lives or were named for 317 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: the rest of their lives. And to be honest, going 318 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 1: back to the phones being thrown overboard, I don't know 319 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 1: if I'd want my phone back from the Israeli defense forces. Like, 320 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: if they had access to my phone for a day 321 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 1: or two, they almost certainly, i'd imagine, could bug it. 322 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 1: I don't know if my rest of my phone, course, 323 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 1: rest of my life would be secure, but it could 324 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 1: be something way worse. So I think for various reasons, 325 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 1: they've made the decision to kind of lose the devices. 326 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 2: So the is raelly forces detained more than four hundred 327 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 2: and forty people who were part of the flow tiller, 328 00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 2: including Greater Tunberg. They were taken to a prison in 329 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 2: Israel for a few days, as you mentioned, They were 330 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 2: then released and flown out of the country. Have you 331 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 2: spoken to Greater about her experience and what happened in 332 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 2: those few days that she was locked up. 333 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 1: I haven't spoken to Greta yet. I think they went 334 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 1: through such a horrendous ordeal. I mean, we've had reports 335 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: of Greta being made to kneel on an Israeli flag 336 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 1: or something along those lines. I think I'm trying to 337 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 1: give her a space for now, but I definitely will 338 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 1: get in touch with her and get a bit understanding 339 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 1: what happened. 340 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 2: So do you feel like the flotilla was a success 341 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:29,160 Speaker 2: even though it didn't make it to Gaza. 342 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 1: Look, even if the flotilla made it, it was still 343 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 1: going to be a drop in the ocean of how 344 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:35,960 Speaker 1: much aid is actually required for two million people that 345 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 1: have been deliberately starved to death. I think the most 346 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 1: important success, and it really is a huge one, is 347 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 1: that it educated millions of people around the world that 348 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 1: a siege was even happening. I had so many people 349 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 1: that message and said, hey, I had no idea that 350 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 1: they weren't getting access to food, water, and medicine. That's 351 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 1: pretty messed up. We should talk about that. And I 352 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 1: think that is an enormous victory. Also, I mean it 353 00:15:57,080 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 1: represents hope at a time where we've watched like rubble 354 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 1: and amputated children for two years and starvation like it 355 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: tells people, Wow, we can take batters into our own 356 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 1: hands if we are unhappy or disgusted by the response 357 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 1: of our international governments. What's stopping us doing things ourselves 358 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 1: right now? 359 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 2: So we're recording this interview on October fourteen, we've seen 360 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 2: the ceasefire come into effect, a pace deal is still 361 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 2: being worked out. How confident are you usef that this 362 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 2: war between Israel and Palestine is over for good. 363 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 1: It's definitely not, because there's a misconception that there was 364 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 1: a ceasefire before October seventh. On October sixth, Palatinians were killed. 365 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 1: On October fifth, Palestinians were killed. This is a seventy 366 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: seven year occupation and there will continue to be violence 367 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 1: until we address the root cause, and that is apartheid, 368 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: a system where one ethnicity has superiority legally over another. 369 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: So long as you have people that are in what 370 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 1: has been described by human rights organizations as the world's 371 00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 1: largest open air prison, where Gaza is not allowed its 372 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: own port, it's not allowed its own airport, it's not 373 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 1: allowed access to basic things. If you have a look 374 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:08,440 Speaker 1: at the list of bad products, it includes wedding dresses. 375 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 1: As long as you have as subjugated people that are 376 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:14,159 Speaker 1: contained within walls and are deprived access to all the 377 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:17,680 Speaker 1: things that everyone else around the world enjoys, freedom of movement, 378 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:21,200 Speaker 1: for example, there is going to continue to be conflict. 379 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:24,639 Speaker 1: So I think that the conversation now No, Unfortunately, the 380 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:27,639 Speaker 1: ceasefire is not going to hold, and it never will. 381 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 1: It's almost this difference between peace and justice. You can 382 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 1: have a peaceful prison if you have enough guards, right, 383 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 1: but does that equal justice? 384 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 3: Absolutely not. And until there's justice, I don't think there'll 385 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:39,360 Speaker 3: be a ceasefire. 386 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 2: Well you so thank you so much for sharing the 387 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 2: journey of the flow Tiller with us. It was amazing 388 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 2: to follow it on social media. And thank you for 389 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 2: talking today on news dot com dot au. 390 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 3: Thank you so much. 391 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 2: You can get the latest updates on the situation in 392 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:52,199 Speaker 2: the Middle East at news dot com dot Au. In 393 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:53,920 Speaker 2: the meantime, thank you so much for listening and I 394 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 2: will chat to you again next Friday.