Speaker 1: Good Evening, Well tonight, I can reveal the major scandal
Speaker 1: enveloping at nine, involving the departure of one of its
Speaker 1: top executives and the lengths the network went to cover
Speaker 1: it up, including the use of non disclosure agreements.
Speaker 2: Nine has been.
Speaker 1: Accused of covering up allegations that its legendary news guru,
Speaker 1: former Director of News and Current Affairs, Darren Wick, behaved
Speaker 1: inappropriately towards women. In one incident, he behaved inappropriately to
Speaker 1: a television star after the logies. In another, he refused
Speaker 1: to engage or respond to senior female staff who reported
Speaker 1: to him. His drunken behavior raised so much concern at
Speaker 1: one nine function that an employee is said to have
Speaker 1: called police when they witnessed Wik getting in his car
Speaker 1: to drive. The secrecy of Wick's departure has infuriated many employees,
Speaker 1: particularly women, with many aware of.
Speaker 2: The nature of his alleged behavior.
Speaker 1: There's internal revolt about the cover up, with journalists worried
Speaker 1: that it exposes the company to accusations of hipocrisy. Wick
Speaker 1: formally left nine on the fifteenth of March after being
Speaker 1: on leave in the weeks prior, while an external firm
Speaker 1: investigated a fresh complaint against him.
Speaker 2: He claimed he was leaving because of.
Speaker 1: Exhaustion after four decades working as a journalist, but The
Speaker 1: Australian confirmed today that his departure followed allegations of inappropriate
Speaker 1: behavior towards a female staff member, and tonight I can
Speaker 1: reveal further details about this complaint. I understand while the
Speaker 1: complaint was new, it related to an incident that occurred
Speaker 1: some years ago historical. The allegation is understood to have
Speaker 1: been made from a current female employee in the Nine network,
Speaker 1: in the television news division. I understand an external legal
Speaker 1: firm was brought in to conduct the investigation into the
Speaker 1: allegation against Wick. It didn't substantiate the allegation, yet the
Speaker 1: decision was made for him to leave at the highest levels,
Speaker 1: where this was seen as the final straw, given previous
Speaker 1: concerns about his conduct. Now I sought comment on all
Speaker 1: of this from Nine's corporate affairs Today, Victoria Bucken, a
Speaker 1: friend of Wicks, said, and I quote not responding. Multiple
Speaker 1: sources today told me this complaint against Wick.
Speaker 2: Was seen as the final straw in a separate incident.
Speaker 1: It became well known at Nine that there'd been an
Speaker 1: alleged incident of inappropriate behavior by Wick towards a Channel
Speaker 1: nine star at the Logis After party on the Gold
Speaker 1: Coast in twenty nineteen. There was no official complaint and
Speaker 1: the woman has distanced herself from it, not wanting to
Speaker 1: be the subject of media scrutiny.
Speaker 2: The woman referred us to nine's corporate.
Speaker 1: Affairs, who denied there'd been any complaint. But when questioned
Speaker 1: on how this had been handled, whether Wick had faced
Speaker 1: any formal repercussions, or whether the board chaired by former
Speaker 1: Treasurer Peter Costello or executive management had shown a duty
Speaker 1: of care to the female employee, Victoria Buckin said, we
Speaker 1: do not discuss our processes on any instances of this
Speaker 1: kind publicly about anyone. These processes are always confidential and
Speaker 1: it is important for all parties that they remain so.
Speaker 2: That is our policy.
Speaker 1: I made several attempts today to contact wik for comment.
Speaker 1: I sent him questions. So far he has not responded now.
Speaker 2: As well as these.
Speaker 1: Alleged incidents of inappropriate behavior, there are also a number
Speaker 1: of instances where Wick allegedly deliberately ghosted senior employees, refusing
Speaker 1: to engage with them even though they reported to him.
Speaker 2: It's understood to be a tactic to keep female.
Speaker 1: Employees on edge and make them feel insecure in their jobs.
Speaker 1: But there was one transgression that was thrust into the
Speaker 1: public domain, which was when Wick pled guilty to high
Speaker 1: range drink driving in January twenty twenty one.
Speaker 3: The boss of nine News has narrowly avoided doing jail
Speaker 3: time after pleading guilty to high range drink driving. It's
Speaker 3: the second time Darren Wicks being convicted. This time he
Speaker 3: was almost five times the legal limit, but.
Speaker 4: He won't do time behind bars. Instead, a nine month's
Speaker 4: intensive corrections order means the news boss is free to
Speaker 4: live a normal life in the community. He could be
Speaker 4: jail if he puts.
Speaker 2: A foot wrong outside court.
Speaker 1: Wick was remorseful and apologized for his behavior.
Speaker 5: I'm in a position where I do know better, and
Speaker 5: I should have known better in a terrible mistake where
Speaker 5: I could have harmed others or harm myself, which would
Speaker 5: have harmed my family and harm my friends and colleagues.
Speaker 5: So I own it completely.
Speaker 1: Wick had been driving home from a work function at
Speaker 1: nine in October twenty twenty.
Speaker 2: When he was stopped by police.
Speaker 1: The word inside nine is that Wick was only caught
Speaker 1: because a concerned colleague phoned police worried that he'd be
Speaker 1: a danger to others or himself behind a wheel after
Speaker 1: consuming so much alcohol, and when police breathalyzed him, he
Speaker 1: recorded a blood alcohol reading of more than four times
Speaker 1: over the legal limit. Wick held onto his job after this.
Speaker 1: Now The Australian reported today that the Channel nine board
Speaker 1: knew about the most recent complaint of inappropriate behavior from
Speaker 1: a female staff member, Sophie Ellsworth, and James Madden reported
Speaker 1: that it has also understood issues relating to Wick did
Speaker 1: go to nine's human resources department, and parties have signed
Speaker 1: non disclosure agreements pertaining to the matter. So the board,
Speaker 1: led by former Treasurer Peter Costello and Chief Executive Mike Sneezeby,
Speaker 1: knew about the allegation of inappropriate behavior, and presumably they
Speaker 1: also knew about the non disclosure agreements. By putting calls
Speaker 1: to Costello today but haven't heard back yet. Despite the
Speaker 1: board discussing the complaint, Wick was given a warm sendoff
Speaker 1: and there was no public mention of any complaint against him.
Speaker 1: Nine's Director of Television Michael Healy praised Wick's enormous impact
Speaker 1: at nine, including his recent work heading up the news
Speaker 1: division at a time of transformation. He wished him well
Speaker 1: and thanked him for his commitment to the news brand.
Speaker 1: Now there is a broad sentiment from everyone at nine
Speaker 1: I've spoken to that there should have been transparency over
Speaker 1: Wix departure.
Speaker 2: There's a strong view that.
Speaker 1: Nine journalists can't investigate, pursue and attack others, whether it's politicians,
Speaker 1: media companies, or big corporations, over internal scandals and inappropriate
Speaker 1: conduct when it covers up its own problems. And multiple
Speaker 1: Nine sources have accused their own.
Speaker 2: Company of covering up this scandal.
Speaker 1: They say there shouldn't be a veil of secrecy over
Speaker 1: allegations of inappropriate behavior. One source said to me there's
Speaker 1: been an extraordinary degree of secrecy around it. The key
Speaker 1: thing that people are annoyed about is the fanfare of
Speaker 1: his departure versus what happened. In fact, at precisely the
Speaker 1: same time the spotlight scandal was unfolding at Channel seven nine,
Speaker 1: the publisher of The Sydney Morning Herald, The Age and
Speaker 1: The finn Review didn't say a peep about why Wick
Speaker 1: had left the company. Here was nine pursuing seven and
Speaker 1: its executives.
Speaker 6: Our backs roll at seven Spotlight program in June last
Speaker 6: year was to help the show's executive producer Mark Llewellyn
Speaker 6: lockin Lurreman for an exclusive interview deal with the.
Speaker 7: Network tailor made package. Apparently no expense spared check book,
Speaker 7: journalism laid bare in a hotbed of allegations aired before
Speaker 7: the federal court, Channel seven racking up I watering expenses
Speaker 7: to nail down their prized scoop.
Speaker 1: The Cydney Morning Herald has published stories about Alan Jones,
Speaker 1: Craig McLaughlin and Channel seven Spotlight, and I do understand
Speaker 1: that investigative journalist Kate mcclemont has been chasing the story about.
Speaker 2: What unfolded with Darren Wick.
Speaker 1: I also put to nine's corporative Affairs Today the hypocrisy
Speaker 1: of nine's journalism arm reporting on similar topics and allegations
Speaker 1: in the world of politics and rival media organizations, yet
Speaker 1: covering up a scandal within their own organization. Victoria Buckin
Speaker 1: said nothing has been swept under the carpet or covered up.
Speaker 1: Will Nine's cover up of this scandal at the very
Speaker 1: top of its news division is laughable given the ferocity
Speaker 1: with which it pursued their commercial rival at seven across
Speaker 1: its media outlets. Nine does much to support women editorially
Speaker 1: and at a corporate level, but perhaps they could focus
Speaker 1: more closely on issues affecting some female employees within their
Speaker 1: own company. Now also on the show Tonight, to Melbourne
Speaker 1: University threatens to call in the police and expel pro
Speaker 1: Palestinian students who are occupy buying buildings on campus. It
Speaker 1: comes after a weekend of unrest on the city streets
Speaker 1: as protesters clash with police.
Speaker 2: Also ahead, new.
Speaker 1: Data dropping Tonight revealing Labour's failure to improve Australia's unemployment
Speaker 1: problem with a million people still claiming welfare benefits, and
Speaker 1: Around's president, known as the Butcher of Tehran, confirmed dead
Speaker 1: in a helicopter clash along with the Foreign minister. We'll
Speaker 1: talk about what this could mean for the Middle East,
Speaker 1: but now let's have a look at federal politics and
Speaker 1: Anthony Albanesi is joining a growing chorus of politicians at
Speaker 1: both federal and state who want to see enforceable age
Speaker 1: limits on social media.
Speaker 2: Have a look.
Speaker 8: Parents are worried seek about what the kids have access
Speaker 8: to online. It is a major social issue in this country.
Speaker 8: We want to respond positively too the request from parents
Speaker 8: that we do somethingut this. We want to make sure
Speaker 8: that any measures that are put in place effective because
Speaker 8: one of the concerns which is there is that age
Speaker 8: protocols may be circumvented by users.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's bring in sky News host Liz Storra and
Speaker 1: contributor Joe hilt.
Speaker 2: A brand Joe.
Speaker 1: In a sense, wouldn't this be a relief to parents
Speaker 1: that they don't have to say to the sets, you're
Speaker 1: banned from TikTok. You know, in their young teenage years,
Speaker 1: they can say, well, the government's bounding this.
Speaker 4: That's right. This is an absolute god's end. Good on
Speaker 4: the PM for doing this. Chris Means also came out
Speaker 4: very early the Premier of New South Wales and said, yep,
Speaker 4: I'm all on board. I cannot punch a hole in it.
Speaker 4: I cannot see I've been saying for years now, I
Speaker 4: cannot see pretty much any benefit from social media. Certainly
Speaker 4: no benefit which outweighs the downside to it. It's been
Speaker 4: an absolute force for destruction right across the globe, particularly
Speaker 4: in the West, and I think it has really harmed
Speaker 4: politics that I think is harmed public life. The difference
Speaker 4: you're talking about about it, but I was about to say,
Speaker 4: the difference is that adults. What I'm saying is I've
Speaker 4: seen it do harm to adults who have got hides
Speaker 4: as tough as rhinoceroses. Just imagine the harm that it
Speaker 4: is doing. We don't have to. We've seen the suicides,
Speaker 4: we've seen the boy We've seen that's right, and again,
Speaker 4: all sorts of things, even just kids. You know that's
Speaker 4: the extreme end, obviously, and that's horrendous enough, but you
Speaker 4: know kids being addicted to it, dragged into it by
Speaker 4: the algorithm, a rewarding the focus at rewarding extreme behavior,
Speaker 4: and just dragging kids in so that there's zombies distracting
Speaker 4: them when they're at school. We know that it reduces
Speaker 4: cognitive function when kids are at school, let alone when
Speaker 4: they're at home. This is no place for children, it's
Speaker 4: no place for adults.
Speaker 1: It's definitely one of the stories as a journalist that
Speaker 1: will never leave me is interviewing the parents of a
Speaker 1: ten year old, a ten year old who took her
Speaker 1: own life.
Speaker 2: After she was cyberbullied so badly.
Speaker 1: And of course bullying is terrible in the playground, but
Speaker 1: the cyberbullying. It follows the children into their bedrooms. The
Speaker 1: parents don't know what's going on.
Speaker 2: Liz, only makes sense.
Speaker 1: To have an enforcible ban here, raising the age limit
Speaker 1: to sixteen.
Speaker 9: I can't imagine any irrational person disagreeing. My biggest question
Speaker 9: is what took so long? We have had such comprehensive
Speaker 9: data for so long that has been screaming at us
Speaker 9: worldwide that the effect of social media on children is
Speaker 9: massively detrimental, socially, mentally, you name it.
Speaker 2: It is no good. So why now? Better late than never?
Speaker 9: But why now is the government suddenly taking measures?
Speaker 2: And I've said it before.
Speaker 9: My only question mark here is how on earth you
Speaker 9: can enforce such a ban without really railroading absolutely everybody
Speaker 9: else's rights. We heard the Morrison government talk in late
Speaker 9: twenty twenty one, No no, I, Like I said, no
Speaker 9: rational person would oppose a ban of children accessing social media,
Speaker 9: especially if they visited any amount of the study that's
Speaker 9: been done. But in order to enforce such a ban,
Speaker 9: we are unquestionably looking at what it will require, and
Speaker 9: that is going to mean quite a few rights, matters
Speaker 9: of privacy for adults, because everyone is going to have
Speaker 9: to prove that they are who they say they are
Speaker 9: in order to jump online, in order to prove I
Speaker 9: am not a child, I am old enough to access.
Speaker 2: You know what, I wouldn't need to show them my idea.
Speaker 1: I just have tonkles up.
Speaker 10: But the.
Speaker 4: People are going to go and behave like monsters online,
Speaker 4: should they not at least not be accountable for that.
Speaker 4: I mean, that's what free speech is. Free speech is
Speaker 4: not the ability to be able to go and anonymously
Speaker 4: bully someone to death or control someone you don't like
Speaker 4: without But as I've.
Speaker 9: Discussed before, there is a lot of people online who
Speaker 9: aren't bullies, who aren't trolled and have chosen to remain
Speaker 9: anonymous because they know speaking their truth these days, usually
Speaker 9: conservative beliefs, they will copy it in their public life.
Speaker 9: Is it for everyone else's safety? And it does remove
Speaker 9: anonymous trolls as well? It does, But again, these things
Speaker 9: are always done in the name of safety, and often
Speaker 9: at the time we cannot see the effects of down
Speaker 9: the road and what it will mean for people who
Speaker 9: then no longer have the right to remain All.
Speaker 1: Right, let's have a look at this next topic, labour's
Speaker 1: travel expenses. Once again, in the spotlight after revelations in
Speaker 1: the odds today the taxpayers will find four hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty million for two new Boeing seven three sevens to fly.
Speaker 1: The PM well, his dog Toto and a document around Joe.
Speaker 11: Look this is car on, Joe, how are you going
Speaker 11: to defend this.
Speaker 4: It's not a great look in the middle of the
Speaker 4: cost of living crisis.
Speaker 9: And after a budget that everyone's agreed, doesn't actually relieve.
Speaker 4: That it can't because it can't be it can't be inflationary.
Speaker 4: But again, this is something the PM and the government
Speaker 4: and the Governor General who are all these digitries who
Speaker 4: are sharing these two jets, I think we all agree
Speaker 4: that they do need jets to be able to get
Speaker 4: around twenty years old. Why luxury jets are twenty years old,
Speaker 4: are at the end of their life. And the government
Speaker 4: had a choice by either leasing two jets for twelve
Speaker 4: years or buying them out right. And it found out
Speaker 4: that buying them out right was actually cheaper, So it
Speaker 4: was actually cheaper to buy these two jets. It's the
Speaker 4: government actually saved one hundred million dollars and actually got
Speaker 4: a jet.
Speaker 2: Luxury jets lutury jet. Do you know basically they needed.
Speaker 1: It's basically as essential as bread, these yeats exactly.
Speaker 9: Without the question mark is the luxury nobody is?
Speaker 2: How dare they get around?
Speaker 9: Although if they want to practice what they preached, they
Speaker 9: should all be on bicycles or some sort of emissions
Speaker 9: free bus because they expect everyday people to pay dearly
Speaker 9: and we all are for the green dream that they're
Speaker 9: voisting onto everyone while they buy spend almost half a
Speaker 9: billion dollars of our money to buy two luxury jets
Speaker 9: that will spew our emissions, but don't for decades to
Speaker 9: go do me a failure?
Speaker 1: Don't you wish they would also have to catch quantus
Speaker 1: of Virgin flights or Jetstar and see how many cancelations.
Speaker 9: The bonds off that would make them politicians of the
Speaker 9: people all right.
Speaker 1: Unions are pushing for Labour's controversial right to disconnect laws.
Speaker 1: Remember these are the laws that give employees the right
Speaker 1: to disconnect, not to answer their boss's phone once they've
Speaker 1: got home at night. Well, the odds reporting that the
Speaker 1: ACTU wants fair work to rule out bosses being disorganized
Speaker 1: as a reasonable excuse to contact workers after hours to
Speaker 1: perform unpaid work is this fair enough.
Speaker 4: Well, I think the example that Michelle O'Neill, act President,
Speaker 4: gave was I thought a pretty reasonable one, which is
Speaker 4: a boss, can't you realize suddenly that there's something that
Speaker 4: were meant to do during the week and they've totally
Speaker 4: forgotten and call an employee at four fifty on a
Speaker 4: Friday and say, right, you've got to spend your weekend
Speaker 4: doing this. Having said that, the number of times I've
Speaker 4: had editors asked, they say, oh my god, we've got
Speaker 4: to do stuff this up? Can you fix this?
Speaker 2: But I said, whether the work to disconnect?
Speaker 4: And of course I say yes, But I guess I'm
Speaker 4: not and we are not. I mean, the sort of
Speaker 4: workers that unions represent are not necessarily the higher end
Speaker 4: kind of white collar workers where you are expected to
Speaker 4: do whatever it takes and you usually remunerated and rewarded accordingly.
Speaker 4: These are workers who might be safe. For example, you
Speaker 4: know teachers who don't want to have to respond to
Speaker 4: every single email they get from a cranky parent until
Speaker 4: nine o'clock at night, which frankly I can assure you
Speaker 4: they do anyway. So I think it's more about just
Speaker 4: saying employees have the right to say no to change
Speaker 4: the kind of expectation. But again, yeah, I think there'd
Speaker 4: be a lot of workers sort of at our in
Speaker 4: and out industries and professionals who would say, what are
Speaker 4: you talking about. I think also if you're asking to
Speaker 4: work from home, then the right to disconnect suddenly becomes a.
Speaker 1: Very I feel like the younger generation don't even need
Speaker 1: these laws because try getting hold of anyone under thet
Speaker 1: after hours and they're not picking.
Speaker 2: Up their body.
Speaker 11: Oh exactly, They're well aware of their rights and they
Speaker 11: are laying down the law, which is why a lot
Speaker 11: of employers do not want to hire them, because very
Speaker 11: different work ethic in the younger generations. But I just
Speaker 11: think this is getting absolutely ridiculous.
Speaker 9: Because of course it's so subjective.
Speaker 11: I mean, what you might class as, oh, this is.
Speaker 9: Because you have been disorganized, Sharry, and as my boss,
Speaker 9: this is your fault. And whereas you know the backstory,
Speaker 9: you know that maybe a client's called up last minute
Speaker 9: asked for something, Therefore it's not your fault at all,
Speaker 9: and now we have to deliver on something to a deadline, etc.
Speaker 2: And so on.
Speaker 9: This is just going to mean so much, he said.
Speaker 9: She said type action for anyone who actually will to
Speaker 9: exercise these laws and take them for a ride.
Speaker 2: It's going to get ridiculous.
Speaker 4: Maybe we should have it so it goes both ways.
Speaker 4: O good aid bys. Yeah sorry, Look, I know at
Speaker 4: five o'clock on a Friday, but I've forgot to do
Speaker 4: all that stuff you ask me. Would you mind just
Speaker 4: you know, doing it yourself and getting it back to
Speaker 4: me on Monday morning.
Speaker 2: Pats all right, Joe, you around this story. Thanks so
Speaker 2: much for hures. Now, don't go anywhere.
Speaker 1: Labor has failed to improve Australia's unemployment problem despite overhauling
Speaker 1: the jobs program. The Daily telegraphs James Willis has crunched
Speaker 1: the numbers and joins me with his exclusive story. Next plus,
Speaker 1: pro Palestinian protesters attempt to confront anti Semitism supporters who
Speaker 1: were rallying in Melbourne. I've got more on that with
Speaker 1: the Christian organizer of nevergrain Is Now after the break,
Speaker 1: welcome back, well exclusive news story now from the Daily Telegraph.
Speaker 2: New data has revealed that there.
Speaker 1: Are still more than one million people receiving either job
Speaker 1: Seek or Youth Allowance welfare payments. The same number is
Speaker 1: when Labor was sworn into government despite overhauling the jobs program,
Speaker 1: this is costing taxpayers sixteen.
Speaker 2: Billion dollars a year.
Speaker 1: I'm joined now by the Daily Telegraphs James Willis. James,
Speaker 1: great to see you, so tell us about this story
Speaker 1: you've just broken over on the Daily Telly.
Speaker 12: Thanks for having me on your show, Shari, I think
Speaker 12: this figure that you've just quoted is important to clarify
Speaker 12: so people understand exactly how bad this problem is. We're
Speaker 12: not talking about people that are on a disability pension, veterans,
Speaker 12: people that are on an age pension.
Speaker 10: This is one million ossies.
Speaker 12: Who have been declared capable of working at least a
Speaker 12: little bit about five hundred thousand of them for.
Speaker 10: At least thirty hours a week.
Speaker 12: And yet in two years of government with Tony Burke
Speaker 12: as the Employment Minister, Labor has failed to move the
Speaker 12: dial on this figure. And we still have one million
Speaker 12: ausraeans on the Job Seeker and Youth Allowance program. Now
Speaker 12: a lot of these people, I think two three hundred thousand.
Speaker 10: Have been on the program for.
Speaker 12: At least two years, if not five years, if not
Speaker 12: ten years, for about seventy thousand, and we have to
Speaker 12: start asking when Labor continues to say, we've created hundreds
Speaker 12: of thousands of jobs, unemployments at record lows.
Speaker 10: You've got this massive.
Speaker 12: One million elephant in the room, which is people that
Speaker 12: should be working that aren't, and it starts to shine
Speaker 12: a pretty big light on the number of migrants that
Speaker 12: we've brought in over the last two years.
Speaker 10: More than one million.
Speaker 12: People who can't go immediately on unemployment benefits need to
Speaker 12: have a job. So that's taken jobs in that regard.
Speaker 12: But what is labor doing to fix this problem that
Speaker 12: Tony Burke said was on the right track in Dune
Speaker 12: twenty twenty two.
Speaker 1: Well, Tony Burke, as you said, the Employment Minister, what
Speaker 1: did he have to say for himself today when you
Speaker 1: asked him about this problem.
Speaker 12: Well, it's the same lines that we hear from labor
Speaker 12: over and over again.
Speaker 10: They've created eight hundred.
Speaker 12: And twenty thousand jobs, unemployments at almost record levels, and
Speaker 12: they've managed to get things moving and they've had new
Speaker 12: things in the budget to give incentives to employers to
Speaker 12: get people into work. But the reality is in June
Speaker 12: twenty twenty two, Tony Burke said it was a clean
Speaker 12: slate he was going to wipe all the penalty points
Speaker 12: from welfare recipients if they hadn't met their mutual obligations.
Speaker 12: It was going to get people job ready, and two
Speaker 12: years on we still have one million people out of
Speaker 12: work completely. I would note as well, Shari, that there
Speaker 12: are large numbers of these people on job secret and
Speaker 12: youth Allowance that are on in mister Burke's backyard in
Speaker 12: Watson in ed Husick's Electric of Chiffley, in Jason Clair's
Speaker 12: Electric of Blaxln and also McMahon in for Chris Bowen.
Speaker 12: That's about thirty thousand between them. So this is a
Speaker 12: problem that senior labor ministers should be deeply concerned.
Speaker 10: By, and yet we have not moved the dial.
Speaker 12: And the number of unemployed Australians a lot of cheap problem.
Speaker 12: As you say, it's a sixteen billion dollar problem.
Speaker 2: Yeah, massive sixteen billion a year. Now, let's have a
Speaker 2: look at news poll today.
Speaker 1: It showed that despite the commitments to cost of living relief,
Speaker 1: twenty nine percent of voters thought they'd be worse off
Speaker 1: after this new labor budget. This is compared to twenty
Speaker 1: seven percent who thought they'd be better off. Meantime, thirty
Speaker 1: nine percent thought that the new budget would actually make
Speaker 1: inflation worse.
Speaker 2: Now, James, this will be.
Speaker 1: A disappointing result for Albanisi and Charmers. You know, they
Speaker 1: say this had nothing to do with politics, but of
Speaker 1: course you know, it is an economic document, but it's
Speaker 1: also a political one and they would certainly help it,
Speaker 1: hoping that the billions of dollars spent on costs of
Speaker 1: living relief would put them in good standing ahead of
Speaker 1: the next election.
Speaker 12: Well it all goes back, Sharhi to the broken promise,
Speaker 12: one of the greatest broken promises in recent memories that
Speaker 12: we heard before the last election that Labor would reduce
Speaker 12: people's power bills by two hundred and seventy five dollars,
Speaker 12: and they kept saying along the way, I.
Speaker 10: Don't worry, that doesn't start until twenty twenty five.
Speaker 12: Well we're now at that point where that money should
Speaker 12: be coming off people's power bills. As we know, whether
Speaker 12: you're a small business, whether you're a family, energy bills
Speaker 12: are absolutely crippling people. So a three hundred dollars supplement
Speaker 12: to everyone from the richest Australian down is their way
Speaker 12: of saying, look, we got this wrong.
Speaker 10: But here's a little bit of bill relief anyway.
Speaker 12: As we know, for the majority of people, you'll barely
Speaker 12: even feel this off Your quarterly bills are going in
Speaker 12: the wrong direction.
Speaker 10: This is the biggest story.
Speaker 12: And the most common thing you hear from small businesses
Speaker 12: right across Australia.
Speaker 10: Their energy bills are through the roof.
Speaker 12: They can't pay their gas. The gas is a massive
Speaker 12: issue that hasn't even been looked at properly in this budget.
Speaker 12: Later's taking that off the agenda because they've had to
Speaker 12: do deals with Greens and the Independence to keep things going.
Speaker 12: And it's the cost of inflation, it's the cost of wages.
Speaker 12: Small businesses are going broke. We've had some of the
Speaker 12: best restaurants in Sydney that have gone broke over the
Speaker 12: last few weeks and can't remain open because they simply
Speaker 12: cannot afford the costs of doing business.
Speaker 10: It's terrible. It's probably in fairness to labor.
Speaker 12: There's a fair sting in the tale from the coronavirus,
Speaker 12: as we know. But the Prime Minister is the one
Speaker 12: in power and ultimately when voters go to the polls,
Speaker 12: he's going to be the one that they judge when
Speaker 12: they decide whether he can get another term or not.
Speaker 1: Well, they might not have blamed him, but he promised
Speaker 1: that he'd be able to make life more affordable. It
Speaker 1: was one of his key election pledges ahead of the
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two election day. Telegraph thanks for joining us
Speaker 1: live from the Telegraph Newsroupe. Now, there were ugly scenes
Speaker 1: on the streets of Melbourne yesterday after pro Palestinian protesters
Speaker 1: tried to clash with those simply demanding an end to
Speaker 1: anti Semitism. They weren't supporting Israel openly, they were just
Speaker 1: demanding an end to anti semitism.
Speaker 2: Now police arrested six.
Speaker 1: People in the ensuing chaos. The peaceful crowd attended the
Speaker 1: Never Again is Now. It was organized by my next guest,
Speaker 1: pastor Mark Leech, and he joins me here in studio. Mark,
Speaker 1: thank you very much for your time. Now, firstly, congratulations
Speaker 1: on organizing these rallies. As a Christian pastor fighting anti Semitism,
Speaker 1: it is so important to have non Jews leading the charge,
Speaker 1: so you know, as.
Speaker 2: A Jew, I thank you for that. Now, now tell
Speaker 2: me what happened, because you know, we saw all.
Speaker 1: Of this unfold on the news yesterday and it was
Speaker 1: really worrying.
Speaker 13: Yeah, well, thank you for having me on your show.
Speaker 13: And look, yesterday was an amazing day in Melbourne. It
Speaker 13: was in some ways the best of days and in
Speaker 13: other ways the worst of days. The best of days
Speaker 13: because in spite of Melbourne's lovely weather fourteen degrees rain showers,
Speaker 13: the security thread around us. Seven thousand of us gathered
Speaker 13: on the steps of Parliament Booch two.
Speaker 2: Yeah, huge to.
Speaker 13: Come and say to our country that there is no
Speaker 13: place here for hate. We were led by Christians, we
Speaker 13: had worship music, we had Jewish music, we had a
Speaker 13: big indigenous presence on the stage. We had political leaders,
Speaker 13: religious leaders, Persian speakers, Indian speakers. It was a wonderful
Speaker 13: celebration of all that is best about our multicultural, cohesive society.
Speaker 13: It was just fantastic.
Speaker 12: That was the best.
Speaker 13: The worst was there were probably it looks like they're
Speaker 13: going to be more reported incidents of anti Semitism on
Speaker 13: that day than on any other single day in Australia's
Speaker 13: recorded history. There were mobs of left leading and jihadists
Speaker 13: supporting Islamic supporters, baying for vengeance all around us. The
Speaker 13: city was full of these people, and as our people
Speaker 13: tried to come peacefully Christians, like one lady seventy two
Speaker 13: year old Presbyterian of all people and her husband trying
Speaker 13: to get our rally. She was kicked in the calf,
Speaker 13: she was pushed, she was spat on, she was called
Speaker 13: a baby killer and a Nazi.
Speaker 10: So that was doing.
Speaker 2: Is she okay, She's okay.
Speaker 13: She's resilient. She stayed for the whole rally and found
Speaker 13: it an incredibly uplifting experience. But it just showed these
Speaker 13: people believe that any form of resistance is justified because
Speaker 13: their cause is so valid, I guess, but it does
Speaker 13: seem like their cause really is.
Speaker 1: The psychology is difficult to understand though, when they were
Speaker 1: trying to disrupt a protest that was just calling for
Speaker 1: the end of anti Semitism.
Speaker 2: It's inexplicable.
Speaker 1: So now the police tried to have these two rallies
Speaker 1: in separate locations.
Speaker 2: So how did this confrontation eventuate.
Speaker 13: Well, we started negotiating the police probably two months ago
Speaker 13: because we wanted to come into the city center to
Speaker 13: support the Jewish community. Now the Jewish community can't come
Speaker 13: in on a Saturday, the Christians can't come in on
Speaker 13: a Sunday. Morning because they're in church, so Sunday afternoon
Speaker 13: was the time, and the police negotiated with the pro
Speaker 13: Palestinian side and they were going to stay on the
Speaker 13: State Library. They've been in the city of Melbourne every
Speaker 13: Sunday for thirty four weeks, so it just seemed pretty
Speaker 13: reasonable for the first time since October seven for the
Speaker 13: Christians and Jews to get together on the steps of
Speaker 13: Parliament House. They'd agreed to that. The police had deployed
Speaker 13: six hundred officers, including the Riote Squad and the horse sat.
Speaker 1: That's a massive waste in a sense of resources in itself,
Speaker 1: isn't it.
Speaker 7: Well.
Speaker 13: I'm glad I'm a New South Wales taxpayer, not a
Speaker 13: Victorian taxpayer, because they are footing the bill to maintain
Speaker 13: public order in the face of sustained hatred and vitriol
Speaker 13: and violence. Every week six hundred officers mounted police for
Speaker 13: say eight hours. Do the math on that. That's what
Speaker 13: the Victorian taxpayers footed the bill for.
Speaker 2: So they were there. They were meant to be separate locations,
Speaker 2: and then what.
Speaker 13: Happened as the afternoon progressed, They started their The pro
Speaker 13: Palestinian started at State Library and then against what they'd
Speaker 13: assured the police would be the case. They marched up
Speaker 13: to our rally and tried to break through police lines
Speaker 13: to attack what we were doing. It was an extraordinary display.
Speaker 13: I think what it did was just show that, you know,
Speaker 13: they just hate love and inclusion and peace, because that's
Speaker 13: what we were protesting. We were there to say we
Speaker 13: stand for love and for inclusion. We weren't taking a
Speaker 13: view on events in the Middle East. So anyone who
Speaker 13: protests love, well, what are they standing for?
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, how can you possibly oppose that?
Speaker 1: Now let's turn to Melbourne University and we know that
Speaker 1: finally the chancellors the leadership there have said that if
Speaker 1: the protesters don't leave the encampment, they are going to
Speaker 1: call police. I mean this has been many, many days.
Speaker 1: Now do you think they should remove these encampments? I mean,
Speaker 1: you know people say, people like Mark Scott say, oh,
Speaker 1: well there's free speech, and yes there's free speech, but
Speaker 1: you're not allowed to just camp it any university campus
Speaker 1: on it. You know, we don't have campus setting up
Speaker 1: tents on university campuses, so why should this be any different?
Speaker 13: Well, I don't think it should be. And the problem
Speaker 13: is not just the encampments. But what they're trying to
Speaker 13: do is intimidate and shut down anyone else's right to
Speaker 13: free association and free speech. So there are lots of
Speaker 13: reports of Jewish students who are scared to go on campus,
Speaker 13: who are intimidated, who are abused, and these encampments should
Speaker 13: have been they should have been closed down the first
Speaker 13: within the first hour that they started. I mean, the
Speaker 13: best time to pull out a weed is before it
Speaker 13: takes over your whole garden. And this is just an
Speaker 13: infestation of hatred on our places of higher learning that
Speaker 13: make it unsafe for our Jewish students and our Christian
Speaker 13: students who oppose this kind of hatred to go about
Speaker 13: their business and study in peace.
Speaker 2: YEP, there's been a lot of abuse and harassment.
Speaker 1: Mark Leacher, have to thank you again for your leadership
Speaker 1: on this issue. You were there on October nine at
Speaker 1: the very first protest, you were chased by aggressive protesters,
Speaker 1: and you haven't backed down since.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much.
Speaker 13: It's a pleasure now.
Speaker 2: Plenty more to come.
Speaker 1: Politicians and staffers put on notice with the threat of
Speaker 1: jail time if they don't report complaints of assault, discrimination
Speaker 1: or bullying.
Speaker 2: More on that shortly.
Speaker 1: Andrew Caswell and Karen Milner will be here live next,
Speaker 1: plus the latest from Iran on the helicopter crash that
Speaker 1: killed President Abraham Racy.
Speaker 2: Known as the Butcher of Terehran. Welcome back will.
Speaker 1: Politicians and staffers have been put on notice report sexual harassment, assault,
Speaker 1: discrimination or bullying or face a potential three million dollar fine.
Speaker 1: The Age has reported that this much delayed and heavily
Speaker 1: disputed Parliamentary Standards Commission could even jail a politician or
Speaker 1: staffer for fifteen years for failing to report allegations. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: former PM Scott Morrison says he did everything he possibly
Speaker 1: could for women while he was in the top job,
Speaker 1: Yet he says the issue was weaponized against him for
Speaker 1: partisan political purposes.
Speaker 2: Have a listen.
Speaker 14: Our government and me in particular were the target of
Speaker 14: what was a very, I think a disappointing campaign. This
Speaker 14: wasn't an issue that should have been used for politics,
Speaker 14: and sadly I think it was, as the recent court
Speaker 14: case has found.
Speaker 1: All Right Tenner, he was of course there referring to
Speaker 1: Brittney Higgins when he said the recent court case, let's
Speaker 1: bring in tonight's political panel. Former media advisor to Scott
Speaker 1: Morrison Andrew Caswell, and former chief of staff to Bill Shotten,
Speaker 1: Cameron Milner. Great to see you both, Andrew Carswell, Well,
Speaker 1: let's start with you. The Scott Morrison there's doing a
Speaker 1: round of interviews to promote his new book. He made
Speaker 1: that claim that the issue was weaponized against him, the
Speaker 1: women issue, the claims that he had a problem with women,
Speaker 1: and this did become a political liability for him.
Speaker 2: What did you think?
Speaker 1: How did you handle this? Do you in his office
Speaker 1: at the time?
Speaker 15: Well, I think Shari Scott was used as a lightning
Speaker 15: rod in this moment too, and his enemy seized upon this,
Speaker 15: whether it be a me too movement or women raising
Speaker 15: other issues in society. His detractors jumped on him in
Speaker 15: that very moment to paint him to be somewhat either
Speaker 15: against women or not understanding of their needs, and I
Speaker 15: think that certainly stuck with him throughout the rest of
Speaker 15: his Prime ministership quite unfairly. I mean, he's very open
Speaker 15: and honest about some of the slip ups that he
Speaker 15: made in some of those forums, but by and large
Speaker 15: his record is pretty significant in what his government and
Speaker 15: the termal government as well did for Australian women, whether
Speaker 15: that be from funding for metriosis, whether it be for
Speaker 15: domestic violence, funding mental health, various measures that were done,
Speaker 15: so his policy outcomes far outweighed some of those small
Speaker 15: slip ups that his enemies used against him at will Well.
Speaker 1: In the recent Core case, Justice Michael Lee did find
Speaker 1: that while Britney Higgins was raped, there was no political
Speaker 1: cover up in the Morrison government relating to her rape,
Speaker 1: and he made this very clear. Camen Milder, do you
Speaker 1: think there should be an apology to Scott Morrison from
Speaker 1: some of the labor ministers who really targeted him, claiming
Speaker 1: that he covered up the rape. A judge has now
Speaker 1: found that this never happened.
Speaker 16: Well, say two things. The first is Scott Morrison was
Speaker 16: a politician and he gave as good as he got,
Speaker 16: so he sledged people, he made names, he called things out,
Speaker 16: so boohoo, sorry Scott, you're in politics mate, and you
Speaker 16: were heading up the show. But I will say this,
Speaker 16: the three Labor mean girls did weaponize the rape. There
Speaker 16: was no political conspiracy. Justice Lee has gone through extensively
Speaker 16: to say there was no political conspiracy. So there is
Speaker 16: absoually no justification for taking a young woman and politicizing
Speaker 16: and weaponizing her in a desperate attempt to win the
Speaker 16: political points, to score points Againstcott Morrison on such a
Speaker 16: personal and potentially criminal matter which at least a civil
Speaker 16: level has been proved to be a rape. So those
Speaker 16: mean girls, Katie Gallagher, Pennywong are still there. They bullied colleagues,
Speaker 16: they went after this issue and they're the ones who
Speaker 16: should be investigated if this is the new standard to
Speaker 16: which Parliament's going to have to meet.
Speaker 1: Well, we now know just how close the Prime Minister
Speaker 1: is to Penny Wang in some areas.
Speaker 2: She's basically running the show.
Speaker 1: So we can understand why at the time he so
Speaker 1: heavily resisted calling any investigation into the allegations.
Speaker 2: Of bullying a story by the way, that I broke.
Speaker 2: Just got to put that in there.
Speaker 1: Now, Andrew Carswell, we've seen that after the recent budget.
Speaker 1: We still think the polls are showing that people are
Speaker 1: still feeling like they're going to be financially worse off,
Speaker 1: despite the three hundred dollars in energy bill relief, despite
Speaker 1: the Stage three tax cuts taking effect on July one.
Speaker 1: Do you think this budget is going to work against
Speaker 1: labor I mean they're hoping it will be at least
Speaker 1: the platform ahead of the next election.
Speaker 15: I think Australians are already starting to see through this budget.
Speaker 15: They're smart, they know what's going on. They know when
Speaker 15: a government is trying to buy them off or or
Speaker 15: win them over. Yes, they'll take the goodies that come
Speaker 15: out of a budget. They'll take the bride, but they
Speaker 15: won't say thanks, and they won't give you any credit
Speaker 15: for it because they can see what you're trying to do.
Speaker 15: And this is a budget that is trying to win
Speaker 15: them over twelve months out from an election. So the
Speaker 15: public is cynical about this. But we're already facing the
Speaker 15: fact that this budget has gone down the toilet. It's
Speaker 15: I mean, we're work five six days after the budget.
Speaker 15: We're not talking about the measures, talking about how badly
Speaker 15: it's performed, and we're talking about Peter Dunton's budget and
Speaker 15: reply speech where he's talking about migration and housing and
Speaker 15: the link and getting that right. And that is the
Speaker 15: message that is resonating with the public because people are
Speaker 15: feeling that it's tapping into this kind of inherent fear
Speaker 15: that Australians have of either getting their kids in the
Speaker 15: homes or addressing the housing crisis in this country by
Speaker 15: bringing down migration. So I think it's really tapped into something.
Speaker 15: The budget is yesterday's news already.
Speaker 1: Well, you know Cameron, Jim Chalmers, who I know you
Speaker 1: admire greatly. I thinks he's found a very clever way
Speaker 1: here to give cost of living relief to people and
Speaker 1: give that relief and use that spending in effect to
Speaker 1: bring down inflation. And you know his argument, and we've
Speaker 1: heard him prosecute this argument in many media interviews.
Speaker 2: His argument is that.
Speaker 1: By bringing down the CPI component that is energy bills
Speaker 1: that low is inflation. At the same time you're putting
Speaker 1: money in people's crockets. He says, he's not sending a
Speaker 1: check out, he's giving the money to the energy companies.
Speaker 1: You know a lot of journalists and economists are questioning
Speaker 1: this logic.
Speaker 2: What do you make of it?
Speaker 16: Well, I admire Jim Chalmer's loyalty to the Prime Minister
Speaker 16: who is desperately struggling to walk around with a fist
Speaker 16: full of fifties and try to buy himself some love
Speaker 16: from the Australian electorate. This budget was an election budget.
Speaker 16: This was a budget to try to fix Elbow's appalling numbers.
Speaker 16: And it's not just newspoll Resolve Freshwater our own GXO
Speaker 16: Pole all is polling should be alarm bells for Albanite
Speaker 16: because he's desperately disliked, not trusted by the electorate. He's
Speaker 16: made cost of living the central issue and has failed
Speaker 16: on it. And poor old Jim has to, you know,
Speaker 16: put out a budget which quite quite reasonably hasn't lasted
Speaker 16: less than a week with the economists. And it's because
Speaker 16: of Jim's loyalty to Albow to try to give him
Speaker 16: electional platform because Albo is stalling every other, every other
Speaker 16: possible way in this polling.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Look, you both seasoned political operatives. You know, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of speculation about election timing. I have it on
Speaker 1: extremely good authority that there are no plans for an
Speaker 1: election this year that Albanezy is planning and going you know,
Speaker 1: the full term to next year. Andrew Carswell, you know,
Speaker 1: would it make sense at all for him to try
Speaker 1: hold one later this year?
Speaker 15: I think, Sharry, you always want that option, and I
Speaker 15: think what Jim has put forward in his numbers just
Speaker 15: just open the door to a possible December election, in
Speaker 15: early December election. It's not their intent and wouldn't be
Speaker 15: their first choice to do that. They will want to
Speaker 15: go to a full term. They want to deliver a
Speaker 15: mini budget in March and then go to an election
Speaker 15: in May. But you always go when the numbers say
Speaker 15: to go, and if the numbers are good in December,
Speaker 15: if the economy is recovering, if inflation is coming down,
Speaker 15: and there's a prospect of an interest rate decrease, then
Speaker 15: they'll be wanting to keep that option open.
Speaker 1: What do you think, Cameron, I mean, the PM is
Speaker 1: probably going to want to stay in the job until
Speaker 1: he can fly in those new four hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: million dollar jets that he's ordered.
Speaker 16: That's right, Toto two point zero is on the tarmac
Speaker 16: for Albow. Now, look for a guy who said that
Speaker 16: at a cost of living was a central issue didn't
Speaker 16: do anything about it. The guy who promised two hundred
Speaker 16: and seventy five dollars powercut.
Speaker 2: And didn't deliver it.
Speaker 16: Why would Australian Electric believe him that he's going to
Speaker 16: go full term? This budget was all about buying a
Speaker 16: vote and that's what it looks like, and that's what
Speaker 16: it is, and that only has a certain lifetime. So
Speaker 16: I think this budget has a half life about six
Speaker 16: months and is desperately designed to give them an option
Speaker 16: before Christmas to go before potentially things get much worse
Speaker 16: for Australians.
Speaker 1: Andrew any chance the Coalition could win. I mean they
Speaker 1: need to recut, they need to win nineteen seats the coalition.
Speaker 1: They need to win nineteen seats to be a majority government.
Speaker 2: Is that too big an ask?
Speaker 15: History certainly against them that There's only been one first
Speaker 15: term government that has failed to win a second term,
Speaker 15: and that was way back in nineteen thirty one, so
Speaker 15: it is against them. They are a long way behind.
Speaker 15: What we're more likely to see is a veryholy, ungodly
Speaker 15: unruly minority government of all sorts of colors, Green, Teal
Speaker 15: and others. That is the most likely outcome. A labor
Speaker 15: majority would be probably second running in that order, and
Speaker 15: then a coalition government. So the task is ahead of them.
Speaker 15: They are proving themselves to be formidable rival, a formidable
Speaker 15: alternative government. I think Peter Dutton has surprised many and
Speaker 15: he's caught them napping a little bit, and he'll be
Speaker 15: a formidable opponent in any election campaign upcover.
Speaker 2: I thought Simon Benson's analysis.
Speaker 1: He's the political editor for The Australian. He wrote a
Speaker 1: piece last week where he said that the advisor is around.
Speaker 1: Peter Dutton had been trying to soften his image, but
Speaker 1: it actually turns out that his tough image suits the times,
Speaker 1: suits the times when people are worried about national security
Speaker 1: with the detainee scandal, they're worried about the social cohesion
Speaker 1: in our streets and worried about cost of living.
Speaker 2: What do you reckon, Cameron?
Speaker 16: Well, I think Peter Dutton's secret weapon is Anthony Albanese.
Speaker 16: If this is a referendum on Albanese, and this very
Speaker 16: well be the case come the next federal election, Labour's
Speaker 16: got real problems. This is a leader who has gone
Speaker 16: backwards since the last election, whose primary is falling, whose
Speaker 16: best opportunity, as Andrew quite reason, he says, is this
Speaker 16: cavalcade of weird weird Teals and Greens propping up and
Speaker 16: Alberti's the prime ministership disaster. So Labour's got real problems
Speaker 16: coming into the next federal election. As I say, Peter
Speaker 16: Dutton's best friend is Anthony Albanese.
Speaker 1: As they say governments lose elections, often oppositions don't win them.
Speaker 1: Andrew Carswell, Cameron milnerk great to see you, as always
Speaker 1: in a Monday still to come. The death of Iran's
Speaker 1: president and what it means for the conflict in the
Speaker 1: Middle East to Koshergada.
Speaker 2: Or join me next.
Speaker 1: Well, let's turn to Iran, where it's been confirmed that
Speaker 1: President Ebrahim Raisi and his foreign minister have been killed
Speaker 1: in a helicopter crash. Mister Raisi and Hussein Oh I'm
Speaker 1: not even going to attempt this last name. We're flying
Speaker 1: in heavy fog when the helicopter suffered a hard landing
Speaker 1: into a mountain. Peak State Television is reporting that there
Speaker 1: have been no signs of life at the crash site.
Speaker 1: And I'm joined now by Sky News contributor Koshergada. Kosher,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of speculation about what this means for
Speaker 1: the conflict in the Middle East.
Speaker 2: The president isn't.
Speaker 1: The most powerful figure in Iran, that's the Ayatola, So
Speaker 1: do you think his death could mean any change in strategy?
Speaker 17: I think that is the question, you know, given that
Speaker 17: the Ayatola is the supreme leader and really controls most
Speaker 17: of the political power in that country. It would appear
Speaker 17: that this isn't really going to be that consequential, certainly
Speaker 17: not in the immediate term. On paper, the president really
Speaker 17: is more of a ceremonial role and doesn't have that
Speaker 17: much authority behind the scenes. Of course, there might be
Speaker 17: different ones who express divergent opinions and things happen behind
Speaker 17: closed doors to some extent, but reportedly President Raizie was
Speaker 17: not one of those, and he was somebody who was
Speaker 17: very much in the image of the Ayatola, very much
Speaker 17: in agreement with him on all policy positions, and so
Speaker 17: it would appear that the replacement is likely going to
Speaker 17: be somebody similar since the Iatola is still around, he's
Speaker 17: eighty five years old, and while there will be elections
Speaker 17: that have to take place, he is most likely expected
Speaker 17: to appoint or select the next person in those elections
Speaker 17: who's likely to win and is going to be a replacement,
Speaker 17: and we won't see much change, I don't think in
Speaker 17: policy positions.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's not considered truly democratic elections, far from it.
Speaker 2: Now, is there the possibility that there.
Speaker 1: Was anything suspicious in this crash or is it simply
Speaker 1: a case of bad weather?
Speaker 2: And aging equipment.
Speaker 17: Now, it's impossible to know that, and we can only speculate.
Speaker 17: What we do know is that it was bad weather.
Speaker 17: This is very tough to rain close to the border
Speaker 17: with Azerbaijan. Even the search and rescue and recovery mission
Speaker 17: has been very difficult and very challenging to execute. Suggests
Speaker 17: that it's certainly possible that it was accidental. But what
Speaker 17: we also know is whenever there is opportunity and motive
Speaker 17: for something suspicious to happen to these world leaders, that's
Speaker 17: human nature, and it's natural and appropriate even to harbor
Speaker 17: some suspicion that there might be more to the story.
Speaker 17: We'll never know, of course, and there are lots of
Speaker 17: actors who have motive to have something like this happened,
Speaker 17: both domestically. Is very unpopular with dissidents and people who
Speaker 17: want the reform movement in Iran as well as right
Speaker 17: now globally, given the conflict in that region and all
Speaker 17: the movements that are happening on the geopolitical stage, not
Speaker 17: out of the realm of possibility that there's more to it.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: The president is often referred to as the Butcher of Tehran.
Speaker 2: Can you tell us how he got this title.
Speaker 17: Yes, the history is that in nineteen eighty eight he
Speaker 17: was one of four or five judges that presided over
Speaker 17: mass mass capital punishment executions of political prisoners and political dissidents.
Speaker 17: I think the US Treasury Department, during sanctions that they
Speaker 17: imposed on Iran back in twenty nineteen even said that
Speaker 17: these were extra judicial where they went sort of outside
Speaker 17: the laws on the books in Iran and executed thousands
Speaker 17: or even tens of thousands of political dissidents. And that's
Speaker 17: where that name comes from.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, Koshagada, thank you so much for explaining
Speaker 1: that to us tonight. Now, thanks everyone for your company
Speaker 1: this evening. I'll see you tomorrow at eight. If you
Speaker 1: want to rewatch, or if you missed the breaking story
Speaker 1: at the start of the program about the scandal at
Speaker 1: Channel nine, head to the website.
Speaker 2: Here's Paul Murray