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Speaker 1: Apogee Production.

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Speaker 2: This podcast contains discussions of abuse, trauma, mental health, and

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Speaker 2: family conflict. Listener discretion is advised.

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Speaker 3: My parents had their own issues, you know, and if

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Speaker 3: they tried as much as the could. But as a

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Speaker 3: parent myself, I know that if I'm struggling, I struggle

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Speaker 3: to be able to give anything back myself.

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Speaker 1: So it's taken me a long time to.

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Speaker 3: Understand, to understand that that they had their struggles.

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Speaker 1: So it was difficult for us all.

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Speaker 3: And I don't you know, it's not something that I

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Speaker 3: resent them for or anything like that, but it's turned

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Speaker 3: me into the parent that I am. Maybe a little

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Speaker 3: bit overbearing sometimes, but I would rather know that my

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Speaker 3: boy was safe all of the time than not.

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Speaker 2: Did you have a good childhood don't?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean I do remember before before the incident

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Speaker 3: with Alex, I remember I was always more of a tomboy.

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Speaker 3: I love being outside, digging around in the dirt. Myself

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Speaker 3: and my brother, you know, we had a nice relationship

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Speaker 3: where we had lots of friends. We used to have

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Speaker 3: friends around, We used to go swimming, we used to

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Speaker 3: do all sorts of stuff, and then slowly things started.

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Speaker 1: To go down hill.

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Speaker 3: We moved to a different house, and slowly things started

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Speaker 3: to go downhill, and then you know, what happened with

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Speaker 3: Alex happened, and I don't really remember a lot of

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Speaker 3: my childhood after that.

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Speaker 1: I sort of became an adult after that.

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Speaker 2: If you like, when this happened, you were eight years old, Yeah, correct, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and your you're you had like your your parents were

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Speaker 2: when you say that they had their issues. Was it

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Speaker 2: like they were kind of separating or they were just

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Speaker 2: what was going through them.

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Speaker 1: At the time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean my dad, he he used to work

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Speaker 3: a lot to provide for the family. So again it's

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Speaker 3: it's from sort of my own experience as a parent.

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Speaker 3: It can't get very lonely if you don't if you

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Speaker 3: don't have people around you. So I think there was

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Speaker 3: just looking for love in all the wrong places. Time

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Speaker 3: that should have been spent with the concentrating on kids,

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Speaker 3: it wasn't. It was either spent elsewhere or them buttonheads

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Speaker 3: all the time.

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Speaker 1: So I mean there was there was.

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Speaker 3: I never witnessed any violence there, So that's you know,

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Speaker 3: it was just it was not a nice environment to grow.

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Speaker 1: Up in, was it was?

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Speaker 2: It was it the kind of like what what you're

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Speaker 2: saying is it was there was struggling because of work

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Speaker 2: and bills, that kind of that kind of thing.

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Speaker 3: That was that what's going on back on, I think, yeah,

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Speaker 3: and not not spending time in the right places, you know,

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Speaker 3: not not actually making time for each other. It was

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Speaker 3: still very much and this was only you know, twenty

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Speaker 3: years ago, but it was still very much the man

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Speaker 3: goes to work, the woman's stays at home and looks

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Speaker 3: after the children. Well, my mother, you know, she had

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Speaker 3: her own aspiration, she had around things that she wanted

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Speaker 3: to do, and you know, I think she would never

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Speaker 3: say that we were ever a hindrance to her. But

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Speaker 3: I don't ever think that her life was how she

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Speaker 3: wanted her life to be.

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Speaker 1: You know. So it was then a knock on effect

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Speaker 1: for the rest of the family.

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Speaker 2: Enjoyed school.

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Speaker 3: No, I was bullied all the way through school because

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Speaker 3: that was a quite weird one.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but mainly in school. So from when I was

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Speaker 3: in first school, this is what this is what's always

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Speaker 3: bothered me. It was it was mainly all with boys

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Speaker 3: who used to do it. And back in school we

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Speaker 3: were taught even at that age, well if a boy,

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Speaker 3: you know, just something to you it's because he likes you.

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Speaker 3: If he's been horrible to you, if he punches you,

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Speaker 3: because he.

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Speaker 1: Likes you, and it's all bullshit. You know.

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Speaker 3: I was fucking battered in school. I had my head

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Speaker 3: braided off walls. I had my you know, I was

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Speaker 3: punched in the face. I was It was horrible. I

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Speaker 3: was so scared to tell anyone because I knew it

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Speaker 3: would just get worse. And it wasn't until there was

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Speaker 3: one day I've had my head smashed off a wall

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Speaker 3: in first school. I was only little, but myself and

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Speaker 3: my friend and my mother and her mother had gone

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Speaker 3: swimming and I'd cut the fringe in to try and hide.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I've got a.

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Speaker 3: Huge forehead as it is, but like this bruise it

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Speaker 3: covered everything, and so I cut the fringe in to

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Speaker 3: try and hide it, and my mum went ape shit,

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Speaker 3: but I couldn't tell her why i'd done it. And

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Speaker 3: it wasn't until we'd gone swimming and my friend had

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Speaker 3: pulled her into the changing room and said.

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Speaker 1: Look at her forehead. She was hit today at school.

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Speaker 3: So my mum thought that it was and it was

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Speaker 3: the right thing to go on and confront what was happening.

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Speaker 3: But it did make things so much worse because even

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Speaker 3: the teacher's back then, they didn't really give a shit either.

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Speaker 3: It was just something else that they had to deal

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Speaker 3: with because of the way that they had been brought up.

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Speaker 3: They didn't really see issue with it either. You know,

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Speaker 3: it was it's difficult. But then it got to middle

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Speaker 3: school and it was more because I've been bullied all

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Speaker 3: the way through first school, I didn't really have a

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Speaker 3: voice then either. And then I started middle school and

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Speaker 3: it was around that time Alex did what he did,

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Speaker 3: so it just got made everything so much worse.

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Speaker 2: I've never seen that in that when I went to school,

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Speaker 2: you know, I never liked seeing Gills get bullied.

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Speaker 1: And that's that's that's so like it was awful.

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Speaker 3: No, it's awful, and it's this is the thing. The

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Speaker 3: majority of the time I have ever been physically attacked,

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Speaker 3: it's been by men from a very very young age.

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Speaker 3: So I can handle myself, trust me, I can handle

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Speaker 3: myself because I've had too.

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Speaker 1: But you shouldn't.

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Speaker 3: But I have to, especially as a woman like you

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Speaker 3: shouldn't ever have to be able to hand yourself handle

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Speaker 3: yourself against a man ever.

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Speaker 1: But then in middle school. It started in middle school.

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Speaker 3: It was more so than girls, and it was People

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Speaker 3: always used to say, well, it's a jealousy thing.

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Speaker 1: It's a jealousy thing. But I because of everything that's already.

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Speaker 3: Happened, I never saw anything about myself that could.

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Speaker 1: Possibly ever make anybody jealous. You know, it was it was.

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Speaker 1: It was hard because.

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Speaker 3: You end up with no friends, you do end up

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Speaker 3: feeling weird, and you end up with nobody. And then

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Speaker 3: it got to high school and it was just it

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Speaker 3: was exactly the same. But because of things that have

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Speaker 3: happened in my family life and because of how small

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Speaker 3: the place was, I also then got lots of shit

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Speaker 3: for for things that my parents had done because I

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Speaker 3: was then in school with people who whose children, you know,

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Speaker 3: their parents knew, knew what was going on, and it

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Speaker 3: was all gossipy, gossipy. So I've got a load of

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Speaker 3: ship for that as well. So it was just it

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Speaker 3: was never a very nice experience. I couldn't wait to leave.

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Speaker 3: Everyone's their school is the best days of your life.

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Speaker 1: That's fucking not.

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Speaker 2: That's so weird, because the schooling for me was the

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Speaker 2: best days of my life. And as I said, I've

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Speaker 2: seen a lot of cat fights in school, and like

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Speaker 2: guys haven't fights too, but never seen a guy hit

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Speaker 2: a girl and if he did, we would fucking crack

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Speaker 2: him one.

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Speaker 3: But like.

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Speaker 2: That's it was. It was it a little country town,

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Speaker 2: was it is? It is that where you were living

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Speaker 2: at the time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I still live up here, which is

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Speaker 3: why I can't wait to get away. My family don't

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Speaker 3: understand it, yeah, honestly, And they're like, well, well we

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Speaker 3: like living here.

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Speaker 1: I say, yeah, but you've had a totally different experience

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Speaker 1: to me.

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Speaker 3: You know, I've had all sorts and more that we'll

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Speaker 3: talk about happen up here. So but it is, it's

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Speaker 3: very much if they don't.

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Speaker 1: Know, you will make up whatever.

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Speaker 3: And people there are so many enablers, and there's so

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Speaker 3: many places like this as well. I mean it isn't

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Speaker 3: just here. I'll get lots of ship saying that about

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Speaker 3: here now, but it's true, it's true, And there are

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Speaker 3: so many enablers because you know, when it comes to

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Speaker 3: smaller places, it's like these people are big fish and

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Speaker 3: little ponds.

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Speaker 1: So I have lots of lots of followers, lots of

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Speaker 1: people who think that there's something and They're absolutely nothing.

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Speaker 2: What was what was the main what was the main

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Speaker 2: reason why they picked on you?

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Speaker 3: What was what was he because I was quiet, because

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Speaker 3: I never stood up for myself, because I never had

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Speaker 3: a voice.

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Speaker 1: I never I never stood up for myself ever, Wow,

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Speaker 1: Because it was like it was an easy target because like.

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Speaker 2: Like I remember when I was in school and if

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Speaker 2: I went overseas to like Spain or Greece when I

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Speaker 2: was a kid and I came back Brown, I remember

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Speaker 2: I was teased for being like they say, you know

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Speaker 2: the P word to me, you're packing and all like that.

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Speaker 1: But I wasn't.

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Speaker 2: But you know, because they didn't have a suntan I was.

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Speaker 2: I would I would get fucking abused. But I'm trying

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Speaker 2: to picture you as a little kid, and I just

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Speaker 2: can't see why they picked on.

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Speaker 3: You because I was quiet, because and again because of

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Speaker 3: things that happened with my family.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's like it really is ancestral purses, things

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Speaker 1: do get passed down.

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Speaker 2: And so what was the main issue there with the family.

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Speaker 2: There must have been something massive.

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Speaker 1: Like I said, people looked for love in the wrong places.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so it was it was difficult so describe and

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Speaker 2: talk me through your next door neighbor before anything happened.

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Speaker 3: Oh so, Alex, he wasn't actually my next door neighbor.

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Speaker 3: He lived at the opposite end of the street to us,

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Speaker 3: like only.

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Speaker 1: A few houses right now.

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Speaker 3: Before it happened, the there was a group of us,

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Speaker 3: you know, from all all different ages. It was a

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Speaker 3: really it's a really small village, and back then there

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Speaker 3: was loads and loads of kids.

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Speaker 1: It was a really family orientated village. So there was.

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Speaker 3: Kids from you know, my brother's age at the time,

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Speaker 3: four or five, right up until Alex's age. And we

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Speaker 3: wouldn't all necessarily play out together always at the same time,

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Speaker 3: but there was always a handful of us from each

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Speaker 3: age range. And there was him and two older boys.

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Speaker 3: And these two older boys they lived across the road

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Speaker 3: from me, and they were the main ones that he

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Speaker 3: was friendly with.

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Speaker 1: The two who lived across the road from me. They

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Speaker 1: were nice, you know, they were funny.

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Speaker 3: They they were like older brothers, who who you could trust,

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Speaker 3: who you could you know, they looked yeah, yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 3: they looked after me. I was safe with them. But

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Speaker 3: then Alex, he was just very different and strange. But

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Speaker 3: you can always tell by somebody's eyes, I think. And

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Speaker 3: there was always just something that was never quite right

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Speaker 3: about him because he was always so quiet compared to

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Speaker 3: He was quiet around the little ones, the younger ones,

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Speaker 3: but when he was with the older ones, he would

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Speaker 3: be fine. Now, whether that's because he can't say that

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Speaker 3: you didn't know how to worked around younger children because

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Speaker 3: he had younger siblings or a younger sibling himself. Like

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Speaker 3: I said, he was more of an observer other than

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Speaker 3: anything else. He would always sit back and he would

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Speaker 3: listen to what was going on.

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Speaker 1: But there was times that.

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Speaker 3: He would try to be protective like the other ones,

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Speaker 3: but it was never yes, it was never ever the same.

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Speaker 3: There was always something about him, And that's what I

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Speaker 3: said to him in one of our messages. You've always

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Speaker 3: always had a side to you, and he always has

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Speaker 3: and he always will.

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Speaker 2: Want to listen to the episode in full, click the

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Speaker 2: link in the description