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Speaker 1: Apodjay Production. Hi everyone, it's sal I just wanted to

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Speaker 1: jump on before the next episode and give a massive

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Speaker 1: shout out to you all. Thank you for listening to

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Speaker 1: the Missing Matter podcast. We have now reached five hundred

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Speaker 1: k downloads and that means that more people are hearing

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Speaker 1: these important stories of missing loved ones all around the

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Speaker 1: world in the hope that we find that someone who

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Speaker 1: knows something. We're almost near the end of season one

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Speaker 1: and I'd love to open the opportunity up to anyone

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Speaker 1: who has a story they need to tell. If you

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Speaker 1: or someone you know could benefit by joining me in

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Speaker 1: a gentle conversation on the Missing Matter Podcast, please reach

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Speaker 1: out to me at info at the Missingmatter dot com.

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Speaker 1: Stay safe.

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Speaker 2: This year marks forty years since William Francis Stephan or

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Speaker 2: Billy has everyone called him, disappeared. It was June seventeenth,

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Speaker 2: nineteen eighty five, four decades since a young father, brother,

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Speaker 2: and son vanished without explanation. Billy was just thirty two.

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Speaker 2: He'd grown up in Mount Cravat, Queensland, the only son

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Speaker 2: in his family, and by all accounts, he was gentle,

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Speaker 2: funny and kind, the sort of man who loved his kids,

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Speaker 2: fiercely and could make anyone laugh. His daughter, Susie, was

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Speaker 2: six years old when he went missing, too young to

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Speaker 2: understand what it meant at the time, but old enough

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Speaker 2: to hold on to some memories, a smile, a voice,

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Speaker 2: the way he'd played chess on his old electronic board.

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Speaker 2: Now forty years on, Susie sits down to tell her story.

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Speaker 2: It's one she's lived her whole life. A story of

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Speaker 2: memories that fade in return, of grief that never quite leaves,

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Speaker 2: and of quiet hope that someone somewhere still remembers Billy.

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Speaker 2: This is the Missing Matter. Billy matters.

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Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, and welcome back to the Missing Matter today.

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Speaker 1: I am again very privileged to have a lady by

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Speaker 1: the name of Susie sitting next to me. And Susie

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Speaker 1: is the daughter of William Francis Stephen, known to his

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Speaker 1: loved ones as Billy. This year was the fortieth anniversary

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Speaker 1: of Billy going missing. He went missing on the seventeenth

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Speaker 1: of June nineteen eighty five, and devastatingly, this is a

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Speaker 1: really big number. He's been missing fourteen, seven hundred and

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Speaker 1: twenty one days. Born on the twenty second of June

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Speaker 1: nineteen fifty two. Billy was the third child and only

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Speaker 1: son to William and Margaret Stephen, late of Mount Gravat

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Speaker 1: in Queensland. In his early twenties, Billy and his partner

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Speaker 1: had a baby, Adam, before having their second child, Susie. Susie,

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Speaker 1: thank you for joining me on the Missing Matter podcast.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for having me. I feel very honored.

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Speaker 1: We're sitting here in the studio and Jay's just popped

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Speaker 1: up a picture of Billy behind you and you got

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Speaker 1: quite emotional.

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Speaker 2: Then.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I guess when you see something like that, you generally

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Speaker 4: see something like that at a funeral, right, very true?

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Speaker 4: So kind of just for me, it feels like is

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Speaker 4: he real? Was he my dad? Like you know, I

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Speaker 4: was six?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it is hard, So thank you for joining me.

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Speaker 1: Can we start by you you telling us a little

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Speaker 1: bit about your dad. You were only six when he

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Speaker 1: met missing in nineteen eighty five. Can you share some

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Speaker 1: of your precious memories with us about your dad?

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Speaker 3: I can.

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Speaker 4: I have some pretty amazing memories of dad, Like he

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Speaker 4: was a very loving dad. I want to say man,

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Speaker 4: because I guess if you're a loving dad, you're honestly

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Speaker 4: going to be a loving man, right, very.

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Speaker 3: Doting, definitely for me.

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Speaker 4: I guess he loved chess because he had a electronic

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Speaker 4: chess board, and I remember quite often that the electronic

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Speaker 4: chess board would like bounce and kick the chess pieces

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Speaker 4: off if Dad was winning, okay, which was quite interesting,

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Speaker 4: I guess for the early eighties.

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Speaker 1: Say that would have been quite unique back then and

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Speaker 1: ahead of its time.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So the memories that I have, they're just really

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Speaker 4: quite precious, obviously, yeah, being fuel and far between in

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Speaker 4: that short six years.

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Speaker 1: And I think it's hard when you're so little, too,

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Speaker 1: because you sort of grab onto those memories and holding

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Speaker 1: them super tight. The ones that you do remember, and

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Speaker 1: probably you've learnt a lot about your dad through your

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Speaker 1: family and through his family and just growing up with

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Speaker 1: him being a missing person and them sharing stories of

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Speaker 1: him with you.

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Speaker 4: I have, and I guess I haven't because I'm unable

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Speaker 4: to retain anything that I've learned as an adult. I

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Speaker 4: can only really know what I know from my own

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Speaker 4: self as a child. There's a lot of things that

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Speaker 4: are like you know, reading through your notes, for instance,

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Speaker 4: and you know things where it's been mentioned and I'm

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Speaker 4: like sorry, like what gives you that impression. And you

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Speaker 4: know when I spoke to you prior to today and

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Speaker 4: you were like, oh, you know, I've got that from

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Speaker 4: you know, the book, I was like, oh, okay, yep,

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Speaker 4: I've read the book. But yeah, I'm just unable to

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Speaker 4: retain anything really that I that I get told.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that's like an underlying trauma that you're

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Speaker 1: trying to process things and you just can't retain it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

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Speaker 4: You know, besides obviously living with the trauma of having

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Speaker 4: a parent that is a missing person, I've also had

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Speaker 4: a very traumatic life in general, you know, not only

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Speaker 4: just as a child growing up with my mother, but

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Speaker 4: moving forward, my only sibling, the death of him, and

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Speaker 4: a week later my children's dad was killed.

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Speaker 1: So yes, that's a lot, that's a lot. Well, you

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Speaker 1: just take your time chatting today. So your parents separated

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Speaker 1: when you were very little, and your dad moved into

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Speaker 1: a flat here in Brisbane. Actually, a separation in any

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Speaker 1: family is a stressful time, especially for children. What do

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Speaker 1: you remember about that time? So I don't actually recall

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Speaker 1: dad living in a flat. I just recall my time

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Speaker 1: with dad when we were in Tasmania. Okay, And then

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Speaker 1: what I believe was after Tasmania at Benburg Street, which

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Speaker 1: is the family home that grandma and grandpa had in Acrobat.

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Speaker 3: There is a vague memory of a set of.

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Speaker 4: Flats, but they were just up the road from Benburg Street,

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Speaker 4: so Ben Cooper would have still been Macropat.

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Speaker 1: And just for clarification, Nicole Morris, she is amazing. She's

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Speaker 1: helped so much in this space. She actually did a

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Speaker 1: chapter about Billy in her first book titled Vanished, and

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Speaker 1: it was actually there I read a lot of information

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Speaker 1: about your dad and the coopero. You did mention to

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Speaker 1: Nicole in your book, a story about your dad and

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Speaker 1: a phone box. Can you share with us what you

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Speaker 1: remember about that one.

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Speaker 4: It's taken me a lot of therapy to perceive this

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Speaker 4: in a different light. But I obviously was little, so

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Speaker 4: I just had this memory of a phone box. I

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Speaker 4: was standing in the phone box with my mother's partner

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Speaker 4: at the time, who was making a call, and I

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Speaker 4: just remember a lot of sirens screeching past. I got scared.

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Speaker 4: I clung onto his leg. Next minute, the police cars stop.

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Speaker 4: I'm pulled out of that phone box and put into

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Speaker 4: the back.

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Speaker 3: Of a police car.

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Speaker 4: So for my little head and when Nicole was initially

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Speaker 4: doing her research and writing for her book. The interviews

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Speaker 4: that she did with us were some years prior to

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Speaker 4: the book's release, so obviously that was sort of that memory. Then,

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Speaker 4: as I mentioned going into this, I've since done some

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Speaker 4: therapy and I've been able to obviously see it a

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Speaker 4: lot clearer. So I had always perceived it as I

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Speaker 4: was kidnapped. So yeah, it would have also been around

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Speaker 4: the time the custody bubble between my parents was happening.

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Speaker 4: I with what I can maybe make out, I think

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Speaker 4: it would have been after we came back from Tazzi

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Speaker 4: and it was Arnie Dye that was actually in the

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Speaker 4: car that I was handed to.

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Speaker 1: So it was shortly after this, in nineteen eighty that

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Speaker 1: Billy's dad passed away, and a call from his mum

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Speaker 1: didn't make it in time for Billy to be able

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Speaker 1: to get to the hospital before his dad passed. I

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Speaker 1: know you're only young, but has your family shared with

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Speaker 1: you how those big moments in time affected your dad?

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Speaker 3: No, and not as such.

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Speaker 4: It was interesting because when I read of these notes

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Speaker 4: prior to today, I actually reached out to my aunt's

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Speaker 4: and tried to get a little bit more of understanding.

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Speaker 4: It was nineteen eighty, so you know, phones were only

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Speaker 4: within the house. With what I understand now as an

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Speaker 4: adult and someone that has experienced, you know, loss and grief.

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Speaker 4: Dad was twenty eight when Grandpa passed away. Dad was

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Speaker 4: his only son, so I feel that that would have

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Speaker 4: affected anybody of a young age losing a father.

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Speaker 1: So then your dad made a pretty big decision to

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Speaker 1: relocate from Brisbane to Oatland's in Tasmania and took you

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Speaker 1: and your brother Adam with him. Oatlands is located in

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Speaker 1: a very old part of Tasmania, positioned approximately eighty four

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Speaker 1: kilometers from Hobart, and in twenty twenty one, the population

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Speaker 1: there was only seven hundred and twenty eight people. What's

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Speaker 1: your memory of living in Oatlands.

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Speaker 3: Or where do I start?

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Speaker 4: I think that's where I have some of the best

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Speaker 4: memories that I possibly could have for my dad. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: I think maybe because it brought some stability.

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Speaker 3: I'm not sure.

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Speaker 4: Maybe it's because I it was just a dad and

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Speaker 4: obviously Adam sorry, but I was allowed a cat.

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Speaker 3: This is a bit of a sad.

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Speaker 4: Story, but I was allowed a cat and we lived

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Speaker 4: in like an old convict style house, like was sandstone,

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Speaker 4: bricks and whatnot, and you had the house and then

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Speaker 4: you opened the back door and there was a hallway

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Speaker 4: to the actual back door, but across the back door

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Speaker 4: was you would go into the bathroom. Okay, obviously bathrooms

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Speaker 4: being all chiled and stuff like that. So Dad was

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Speaker 4: pretty adamant that the cat wasn't allowed to be in

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Speaker 4: the house and it had to sleep in the bathroom.

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Speaker 4: And the next morning I woke up and it was

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Speaker 4: solid dead, frozen it was. I believe it pros to death.

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Speaker 4: I don't, well that's just my understanding, you know, Tasmania

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Speaker 4: being Tasmania very cold. I don't know if he potentially

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Speaker 4: died of something else, but in my opinion as a

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Speaker 4: little girl, it froze to death.

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Speaker 1: That is a sad story, oh goodness.

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Speaker 3: To me, a sad story. But I actually can laugh

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Speaker 3: about it these days.

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Speaker 1: Why do you believe your dad moved you all? There

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Speaker 1: were you hiding?

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Speaker 4: I honestly have no idea, and I've never really pondered

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Speaker 4: that question. I do recall that I've probably asked my

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Speaker 4: aunt's like why, and their feedback was just, you know,

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Speaker 4: it was the most furtherest that he could be away

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Speaker 4: for what reason, I don't know, and I don't know

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Speaker 4: if that is connected to then why he went back

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Speaker 4: to Tazzy like that.

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Speaker 1: Answerer say, it wasn't long after this that your mum

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Speaker 1: and your dad had hopes of reconciliation and moved you

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Speaker 1: back to Brisbane. Your dad asked his sister, who you're

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Speaker 1: actually named after, if she could look after you and

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Speaker 1: Adam for a few weeks as he needed a break,

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Speaker 1: And that was in Townsville.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so Arnie Sue lived in Townsville. I don't really

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Speaker 4: recall too much of that. Again, like I was so little,

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Speaker 4: I remember being in Townsville with my Arnie Sue and

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Speaker 4: her husband at the time, Uncle Barry. I remember being

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Speaker 4: really quite close with Uncle Barry. I guess probably you

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Speaker 4: know that little girl father figure type thing.

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Speaker 3: Other than that, like, I don't remember much.

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Speaker 1: Can you share with us what you remember about this

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Speaker 1: time in your life. Your brother lived with your dad

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Speaker 1: and you went to live with your mum and there

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Speaker 1: was the whole weekend visitations. How did that work for you, guys,

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Speaker 1: and what's your memory of that?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so I always thought I was in Tasmania in

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Speaker 4: eighty two, but I think I was in Tasmania now

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Speaker 4: in eighty three, so this time after we came back

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Speaker 4: from Tazi, I'm assuming must have been around eighty four.

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Speaker 4: I do recall living with mum, Adam, living with Dad

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Speaker 4: at Vanberg Street at the family home. I think we

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Speaker 4: were when I say we myself living with my mother,

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Speaker 4: I believe we must have been around Karina. Yeah, I

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Speaker 4: just recall obviously weekend visitations, so that would be an

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Speaker 4: alternate where I would go to Vanberg Street one weekend

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Speaker 4: and be with Adam, Dad and my two older cousins.

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Speaker 4: I remember just amazing times there, like sitting on the

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Speaker 4: top of the back steps with Dad and he would

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Speaker 4: cut up watermelon. I remember, you know, like if I

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Speaker 4: was upset, Dad would make me milk and honey. But

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Speaker 4: I do recall, through my years of going on through

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Speaker 4: childhood and teenage, whenever I was upset, whenever I needed comfort.

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Speaker 1: So sadly the reconciliation of him and Dad's marriage didn't work. Again,

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Speaker 1: something your aunt's mentioned and you said you don't have

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Speaker 1: any recollection of it, but I was sort of asking

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Speaker 1: the question, would you agree that that was potentially the

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Speaker 1: catalyst for your dad's heavy drinking because it was sort

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Speaker 1: of noted that that was sort of like the thought

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Speaker 1: process behind why he started to drink a lot. But obviously,

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Speaker 1: again you were only little and probably don't have memories

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Speaker 1: of that.

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Speaker 4: Or to be honest, I don't recall ever seeing dad

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Speaker 4: with a drink. Like, with what my knowledge is and

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Speaker 4: my understanding, I wouldn't suggest that he was a heavy drinker.

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Speaker 4: With that said, I wasn't with him twenty four to seven.

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Speaker 3: I know he smoked.

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Speaker 4: I definitely know that because he definitely smoked around us.

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Speaker 1: And it sounds like if this is quite traumatic for

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Speaker 1: everyone involved, like listening to your aunties as well, and

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Speaker 1: your dad then made a massive decision to leave you

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Speaker 1: an adam with your mum and he moved to adelaide

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Speaker 1: him saying I just need to go away somewhere, just

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Speaker 1: allow them to get on with it. That's a lot

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Speaker 1: for you as a little person, to ask you what

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Speaker 1: you feel was happening in that time and space. But

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Speaker 1: how do you feel about everything of this time as

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Speaker 1: an adult and a parent yourself.

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Speaker 4: So I've never gone through as a parent, I've never

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Speaker 4: gone through custody, so I can't resonate in that space.

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Speaker 4: I can resonate in the space that I'm a parent

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Speaker 4: that has lost their father, and I can resonate in

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Speaker 4: the space that of going through a divorce.

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Speaker 3: I went through a divorce.

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Speaker 4: And like I loved that man beyond measure, and it

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Speaker 4: completely shattered me. And I think it was a catalyst

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Speaker 4: me going through my divorce. It was a catalyst for

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Speaker 4: me to kind of get a little bit more understanding

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Speaker 4: of potentially where my dad's head was at and why

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Speaker 4: he has potentially done what he has done. Per se,

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Speaker 4: grown up my whole life with three amazing, amazing arts

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Speaker 4: who have always maintained and ensured that my brother and

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Speaker 4: I were a part of the family, and they've always

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Speaker 4: always constantly saying, I guess to both of us. But

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Speaker 4: for me personally, you know that they could never understand

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Speaker 4: why dad has done what he's done because I was

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Speaker 4: the apple of his eye and he loved me immensely

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Speaker 4: growing up.

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Speaker 3: I can never understand.

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Speaker 4: That because if you love someone, why have you done

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Speaker 4: what you've done? Going through that heartache of a divorce

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Speaker 4: and losing someone that you wholly and solely love, you

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Speaker 4: can easily get to a place of desperation where you

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Speaker 4: just don't want to be a part of society. You

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Speaker 4: don't want to have to the memories. You don't want

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Speaker 4: to have to process the memories. In today's society, we're

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Speaker 4: very much focusing on men's mental health and getting them

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Speaker 4: to speak up. But back in the eighties, it wasn't.

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Speaker 4: It wasn't the in thing. You had to be a man,

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Speaker 4: you had to, yeah, get on with it. You know,

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Speaker 4: he had lost his father, being the only boy within

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Speaker 4: the family. You know, who did he necessarily have to

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Speaker 4: turn to. I'm sure he has three amazing sisters, but

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Speaker 4: a man to man kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: So, sadly your brother has passed away as well. Do

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Speaker 1: you want to tell us a little bit about Adam?

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Speaker 4: Unfortunately, due to our life after Dad, so our life

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Speaker 4: with our mother, we lived a very traumatic life. So

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Speaker 4: because of those sort of circumstances, Adam and I work close,

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Speaker 4: Adam turned to drugs. I believe obviously some of what

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Speaker 4: was the catalyst for Adam to do that.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 4: Was it the fact that there was a letter sent

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Speaker 4: to Adam at some point when I was admitted to

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Speaker 4: hospital with an ammonia and I got a card from Dad,

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Speaker 4: So that would have been a month, maybe a few

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Speaker 4: weeks before he actually.

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Speaker 3: Was last seen.

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Speaker 4: So my assumption is that that letter was around that

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Speaker 4: time that Adam received that letter, and it said that

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Speaker 4: Dad would be back when Adam turned thirteen. At the

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Speaker 4: end of the day, I was six when he disappeared.

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Speaker 4: You go through and you hear all these things, and

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Speaker 4: you try and make sense of all of these things,

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Speaker 4: and you try and.

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Speaker 3: Put puzzle pieces all together.

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Speaker 4: Because of mishandled police investigations, you then start questioning, like

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Speaker 4: what's real, what wasn't real, What did happen, what didn't happen.

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Speaker 1: It is hard, you know, when I'm now in my fifties,

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Speaker 1: I look back and I think, oh wow, Like I

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Speaker 1: see how things happened as a child in our childhood

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Speaker 1: that potentially similarly to you has happened in your family

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Speaker 1: as well.

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Speaker 4: So it is hard, and especially like I've attempted suicide.

335
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Speaker 4: I can't remember how many times, But I understand that desperation.

336
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Speaker 4: I definitely understand that desperation, especially when you feel like

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Speaker 4: you've got no one to turn to or no one

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Speaker 4: understands you. Because this space is quite a different space

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Speaker 4: to be in. It's not like your parent has passed

340
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Speaker 4: from an illness. It's not like you've lost your child

341
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Speaker 4: through an accident, and especially after Adam's death, which was

342
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Speaker 4: twenty three years ago, so Adam was quite young. Adam

343
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Speaker 4: was twenty six. You know, I've had to navigate a

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Speaker 4: lot of this by myself. I was twenty three. So

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Speaker 4: for me wanting to bring justice, but it's not really

346
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Speaker 4: that I'm bringing justice to Dad per se, but I

347
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Speaker 4: think justice to myself as my dad's daughter, to have

348
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Speaker 4: him remembered. And I've done that only in my thirties.

349
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Speaker 4: I think I was when I started wanting to do

350
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Speaker 4: those things. A lot of that was because, you know,

351
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Speaker 4: like I didn't have somebody that I could rely on

352
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Speaker 4: or talk to as such.

353
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Speaker 3: I was a young mother.

354
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Speaker 4: My daughter actually has a disability. I was a single mother.

355
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Speaker 4: So any time that I tried to navigate and understand,

356
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Speaker 4: the overwhelming of emotion and the hoops, the unbelievable hoops

357
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Speaker 4: they make you try and jump just to get a

358
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Speaker 4: bit of understanding and information is absurd, absolutely absurd.

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Speaker 1: From what I found. Billy was last seen in North

360
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Speaker 1: Hobart on or shortly after a doctor's appointment on the

361
00:21:00,481 --> 00:21:03,681
Speaker 1: seventeenth of June nineteen eighty five. Can you walk us

362
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Speaker 1: through the key moments from when he was in Adelaide

363
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Speaker 1: and when he arrived in Tasmania.

364
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Speaker 4: He was in Adelaide, he was in a mental health facility,

365
00:21:14,961 --> 00:21:19,240
Speaker 4: he discharged himself from that facility, made his way to

366
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Speaker 4: Tasmania when we do not know, and then he was

367
00:21:23,921 --> 00:21:27,160
Speaker 4: with a Buddhist retreat or something like that.

368
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Speaker 1: Zen Buddhist practitioner. So his name was Robert Walter and

369
00:21:30,721 --> 00:21:34,521
Speaker 1: he lived on a property at Saltwater River. He's now deceased,

370
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Speaker 1: and my notes tell me that he was the last

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Speaker 1: noted person to see Billie alive.

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Speaker 4: Isn't that interesting though, because you also said that up

373
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Speaker 4: above that he was had a doctor's appointment on the

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Speaker 4: seventeenth of June.

375
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Speaker 3: So who was the last to see him alive?

376
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Speaker 1: And this is exactly why we talk about these things,

377
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Speaker 1: because I just mentioned his last noted sighting was at

378
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Speaker 1: the doctor's appointment, But then we've also got it noted

379
00:22:03,041 --> 00:22:06,880
Speaker 1: at his last appointment. Drives me mental in a missing

380
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,920
Speaker 1: person's case because it's not helpful, right, So let's just

381
00:22:10,001 --> 00:22:11,920
Speaker 1: put it out there that he went to the doctor.

382
00:22:12,441 --> 00:22:17,281
Speaker 1: That's been verified, has it though? I know is what's

383
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Speaker 1: on the police reports.

384
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Speaker 4: On the police report, I have not heard a single

385
00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,481
Speaker 4: thing from that doctor. If you look through the inquest

386
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,921
Speaker 4: and other information that's out there. There was a phone

387
00:22:27,961 --> 00:22:30,721
Speaker 4: call made to my grandmother where he was sounded dazed

388
00:22:30,761 --> 00:22:34,960
Speaker 4: and confused. But if he was last seen by the doctor,

389
00:22:35,041 --> 00:22:39,241
Speaker 4: why isn't the doctor's last words of how he perceived

390
00:22:39,281 --> 00:22:41,241
Speaker 4: my dad to be at that appointment?

391
00:22:41,321 --> 00:22:42,521
Speaker 3: Why is that not highlighted?

392
00:22:44,120 --> 00:22:47,881
Speaker 1: He was noted to have a tent set up on

393
00:22:48,201 --> 00:22:51,201
Speaker 1: a beach, which apparently is on that property at Saltwater

394
00:22:51,360 --> 00:22:55,761
Speaker 1: River that belonged to this Robert Walter guy. We have

395
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,801
Speaker 1: been told that the tent was burnt down and all

396
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,840
Speaker 1: his belongings were burnt. So I have a note here

397
00:23:03,001 --> 00:23:06,840
Speaker 1: that on the thirteenth of June at the doctor surgery,

398
00:23:07,041 --> 00:23:11,321
Speaker 1: there was a phone call that you had mentioned about

399
00:23:11,321 --> 00:23:14,360
Speaker 1: the dazed and the confused, right, that's where that comment

400
00:23:14,441 --> 00:23:16,761
Speaker 1: came from. But this phone call was to his mum

401
00:23:16,921 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 1: and he was asking her for some money so he

402
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,881
Speaker 1: could come back to the mainland, but your grandmother had

403
00:23:23,961 --> 00:23:27,321
Speaker 1: said no. It was noted that your grandmother suffered with

404
00:23:27,801 --> 00:23:31,360
Speaker 1: bipolar disorder for many years and she had her own

405
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:33,680
Speaker 1: mental health that she was dealing with, so she was

406
00:23:33,681 --> 00:23:37,041
Speaker 1: probably struggling to be fair to her at that time herself.

407
00:23:37,281 --> 00:23:39,801
Speaker 1: That's where that report comes in to the police. That's

408
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:42,361
Speaker 1: highlighted as you said that he was dazed and confused

409
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,041
Speaker 1: in that call. Then we have on the seventeenth of

410
00:23:45,120 --> 00:23:48,761
Speaker 1: June nineteen eighty five that your dad had destroyed all

411
00:23:48,761 --> 00:23:51,440
Speaker 1: his belongings on this beach and told a friend that

412
00:23:51,481 --> 00:23:54,361
Speaker 1: he was going to see the doctor in Hobart and

413
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,961
Speaker 1: then going to his sister Suzanne's in Townsville. That he

414
00:23:58,041 --> 00:24:02,400
Speaker 1: burnt all his belongings and the doctor's appointment is marked

415
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:04,640
Speaker 1: as the last non siding of billing. So there we

416
00:24:04,681 --> 00:24:07,400
Speaker 1: have that problem with the friend says he's the police

417
00:24:07,441 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 1: have said the friend was the last person to see him,

418
00:24:09,241 --> 00:24:11,880
Speaker 1: who's the doctor. And there's lots that he has said

419
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,001
Speaker 1: as well, right, And I believe he gave evidence to

420
00:24:14,001 --> 00:24:15,120
Speaker 1: it in the inquest.

421
00:24:15,441 --> 00:24:16,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've got the inquest, okay.

422
00:24:17,120 --> 00:24:19,880
Speaker 4: So zero point five of the inquest says that he

423
00:24:20,441 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 4: my dad became involved with a so called Zen Buddhist practitioner,

424
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Speaker 4: which was mister Robert Peter Walter.

425
00:24:27,961 --> 00:24:31,121
Speaker 3: Mister Walter who was now deceased said in.

426
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Speaker 4: A statutory declaration he made on the twenty fifth to

427
00:24:34,001 --> 00:24:37,680
Speaker 4: September two thousand and nine, that he had received several

428
00:24:37,761 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 4: letters from mister Stepan my dad, seeking advice about the

429
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:48,480
Speaker 4: spiritual consequences if any, of suicide. Mister Walter indicated he

430
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:52,241
Speaker 4: had concerns about mister Stephan's mental health during the time

431
00:24:52,961 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 4: mister Stephan stayed at mister Walter's meditation center near Salt

432
00:24:58,001 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 4: River in southeast Tasmania for a week, also shortly after

433
00:25:02,120 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 4: his arrival in Tasmania. And then it goes on to

434
00:25:05,281 --> 00:25:08,360
Speaker 4: say ino point six that mister Walters seems to be

435
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 4: the last person to have seen mister Stephane alive. And

436
00:25:11,281 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 4: it was mister Walters that took mister Stephan to Hobart

437
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:19,641
Speaker 4: on about the thirteenth of June nineteen eighty five, and

438
00:25:20,001 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 4: apparently he mentioned to mister Walters that he was considering

439
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 4: climbing Mount Wellington or going to the casino. The coroner

440
00:25:28,681 --> 00:25:33,721
Speaker 4: said that he doubt much of that account is even accurate.

441
00:25:34,961 --> 00:25:36,801
Speaker 1: And this is what it's going to be important for

442
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,400
Speaker 1: you to try and get your dad's medical records. I

443
00:25:39,441 --> 00:25:43,201
Speaker 1: think you can go through freedom of information. So once

444
00:25:43,241 --> 00:25:45,361
Speaker 1: you don't know, you're rolling your eyes at me. I know,

445
00:25:45,521 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 1: I know. I'm sorry. I'm sorry because I know this

446
00:25:47,721 --> 00:25:51,961
Speaker 1: very well too. But I was able to only last year,

447
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 1: so at the twenty eighth year mark, I was able

448
00:25:55,120 --> 00:25:58,001
Speaker 1: to get the records from Medicare because I had a

449
00:25:58,041 --> 00:26:01,721
Speaker 1: grand to probate from that I went through. In that process,

450
00:26:02,321 --> 00:26:04,921
Speaker 1: they made me jump through hoops at Medicare, like, oh,

451
00:26:05,120 --> 00:26:06,801
Speaker 1: you have to get that person to say. I'm like, no, no,

452
00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:09,120
Speaker 1: this is I just stood my ground with them, this

453
00:26:09,281 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 1: is it, this is what I have. It was very traumatic.

454
00:26:12,521 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 1: But all of mum's medical history just arrived in the

455
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 1: mail oh wow. Like literally, they didn't write to me

456
00:26:18,441 --> 00:26:20,281
Speaker 1: and say hey, we're approving it or anything. It just

457
00:26:20,321 --> 00:26:23,081
Speaker 1: turned up at the mailbox and I'm like, oh, well,

458
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,880
Speaker 1: there you go. It's got all of my history and

459
00:26:25,921 --> 00:26:28,321
Speaker 1: all of my mum's history and all the doctor's appointments

460
00:26:28,321 --> 00:26:31,400
Speaker 1: that she had. That is I've done it myself, because

461
00:26:31,561 --> 00:26:33,881
Speaker 1: you know, we've got that other statement there. Whereas there's

462
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,360
Speaker 1: a pinpoint of well the doctor was the last person

463
00:26:36,360 --> 00:26:38,880
Speaker 1: to see him, Okay, well who was the doctor and

464
00:26:38,921 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 1: why was he seeing him? And what was noted in

465
00:26:41,001 --> 00:26:43,920
Speaker 1: that appointment. What was the appointment for per se? I

466
00:26:43,961 --> 00:26:47,441
Speaker 1: do recall seeing the doctor's name somewhere. I believe it's

467
00:26:47,441 --> 00:26:50,801
Speaker 1: a Richard. It's on Elizabeth Street in Hobart. After the

468
00:26:50,801 --> 00:26:53,761
Speaker 1: inquest came out, actually even looked up the practice and

469
00:26:53,961 --> 00:26:57,360
Speaker 1: he is or was at that time still practicing. All

470
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:01,201
Speaker 1: of Billy's sisters sent him money. So we've got one

471
00:27:01,201 --> 00:27:04,561
Speaker 1: of his sisters send him money and a woolen jumper

472
00:27:04,681 --> 00:27:06,640
Speaker 1: because it was cold down there and she wanted to

473
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 1: give him something warm. The jumper was returned to sender

474
00:27:11,001 --> 00:27:13,921
Speaker 1: in the September, so this is like we're going from

475
00:27:13,961 --> 00:27:18,121
Speaker 1: June to September. And then we've got Diane, he's other

476
00:27:18,201 --> 00:27:22,321
Speaker 1: sister whose money was collected at the Hobart post office,

477
00:27:22,441 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 1: but Susan's had not been collected. And then we've got

478
00:27:25,120 --> 00:27:28,761
Speaker 1: Ray who's his younger sister who also sent money and

479
00:27:28,921 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 1: that was never collected as well. So he's ringing his

480
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:35,081
Speaker 1: mum asking for money so that he can catch the

481
00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:38,360
Speaker 1: expensive boat back over the ship back over to the

482
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:42,481
Speaker 1: mainland from Tasmania. There's a complication there, isn't there because

483
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:47,200
Speaker 1: the shipping company just changed hands just at that like

484
00:27:47,281 --> 00:27:51,960
Speaker 1: literally weeks after Billy went missing. So I mean I

485
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,160
Speaker 1: had sort of put down to talk to you about archives.

486
00:27:55,201 --> 00:27:58,921
Speaker 1: But there is a little shining light in archives because

487
00:27:59,561 --> 00:28:02,521
Speaker 1: when they get to a certain time, it falls into

488
00:28:02,561 --> 00:28:06,640
Speaker 1: a thing called open access period, which means that the

489
00:28:06,681 --> 00:28:09,880
Speaker 1: information is locked down to us. We can't access it

490
00:28:10,001 --> 00:28:13,400
Speaker 1: for many years, sometimes decades, but then once it rolls

491
00:28:13,441 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 1: over to that it becomes open access and we can

492
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:16,400
Speaker 1: access it.

493
00:28:16,481 --> 00:28:16,681
Speaker 4: Wow.

494
00:28:16,801 --> 00:28:20,281
Speaker 1: Okay, So that's something else that I wanted to share

495
00:28:20,321 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 1: with you because I was like, oh, I wonder if

496
00:28:22,321 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 1: you know this, because I didn't.

497
00:28:25,321 --> 00:28:27,321
Speaker 3: I did not know that I do know.

498
00:28:27,481 --> 00:28:31,361
Speaker 4: As it's been mentioned, Nicole from Australia Missing Person did

499
00:28:31,360 --> 00:28:34,521
Speaker 4: a chapter in her first book Finished on Dad and

500
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,321
Speaker 4: she found that point of the fact that the shipping

501
00:28:38,681 --> 00:28:41,801
Speaker 4: company had changed hands only like I think a month

502
00:28:42,161 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 4: after Dad's last sighting, and prior to it changing hands,

503
00:28:46,521 --> 00:28:51,321
Speaker 4: there was no manifestation list. Once it changed hands, that

504
00:28:51,681 --> 00:28:56,641
Speaker 4: is when manifestation lists started to become a thing of travel.

505
00:28:57,921 --> 00:28:59,441
Speaker 1: So one of the things we are going to touch

506
00:28:59,481 --> 00:29:08,521
Speaker 1: on now is the police and the initial respond investigative gaps, missteps,

507
00:29:09,801 --> 00:29:11,521
Speaker 1: The fact that your dad was last know one to

508
00:29:11,521 --> 00:29:15,361
Speaker 1: be in Tasmania, but he was reported by his younger

509
00:29:15,401 --> 00:29:19,321
Speaker 1: sister Ray as missing here in Brisbane. Let's talk about

510
00:29:19,361 --> 00:29:23,161
Speaker 1: the complications when dealing with two different jurisdictions being in

511
00:29:23,201 --> 00:29:27,201
Speaker 1: this case Queensland and Tasmanian police. And what are your

512
00:29:27,361 --> 00:29:30,881
Speaker 1: experiences as the adult daughter of a missing man who's

513
00:29:30,921 --> 00:29:32,521
Speaker 1: now been missing for forty years.

514
00:29:34,041 --> 00:29:38,081
Speaker 4: So my experience that I have had has been zero

515
00:29:38,361 --> 00:29:44,801
Speaker 4: with regards to any acknowledgement. I do understand from speaking

516
00:29:44,801 --> 00:29:48,041
Speaker 4: with my aunts throughout the years that even back in

517
00:29:48,081 --> 00:29:52,121
Speaker 4: the initial days and months of them reporting Dad missing,

518
00:29:52,841 --> 00:29:56,601
Speaker 4: there was you know, this handball between Queensland and Tasmania

519
00:29:56,721 --> 00:30:01,361
Speaker 4: because you know, like, obviously he's reported here in Holland Park.

520
00:30:01,721 --> 00:30:05,321
Speaker 4: Understandably so because of course we all live in Brisbane,

521
00:30:05,841 --> 00:30:10,561
Speaker 4: no family in Tasmania or any connection to Tasmania. So

522
00:30:10,921 --> 00:30:14,601
Speaker 4: obviously Queensland can't do anything about it. He's not missing here,

523
00:30:14,881 --> 00:30:18,881
Speaker 4: We'll give that to Tasmania. Tasmania's like, well, he was

524
00:30:18,921 --> 00:30:21,361
Speaker 4: a reporter down missing down here, so you know you

525
00:30:21,521 --> 00:30:25,161
Speaker 4: own it, you own it. Well, how does Queensland own

526
00:30:25,201 --> 00:30:29,361
Speaker 4: it when the person hasn't actually gone missing in this state?

527
00:30:29,681 --> 00:30:33,521
Speaker 3: What can Queensland Police actually do about that, not a lot.

528
00:30:34,321 --> 00:30:37,921
Speaker 1: It's difficult. The whole carriage of the case, Sony learnt

529
00:30:37,961 --> 00:30:43,001
Speaker 1: the word carriage during my inquest. An absolute nightmare. And

530
00:30:43,001 --> 00:30:45,601
Speaker 1: when I was going through your dad's story, I was like, Oh,

531
00:30:45,641 --> 00:30:49,121
Speaker 1: here we go again, Like we've got two police in

532
00:30:49,201 --> 00:30:52,281
Speaker 1: different states who don't communicate and one of them is

533
00:30:52,361 --> 00:30:54,001
Speaker 1: just palming it off to the other. Oh, it was

534
00:30:54,041 --> 00:30:58,081
Speaker 1: not our responsibility, it's your responsibility. So I wanted to

535
00:30:58,881 --> 00:31:03,801
Speaker 1: understand how you feel in this position right now, I

536
00:31:03,841 --> 00:31:07,401
Speaker 1: guess and still sort of questioning what's happening. I've noted

537
00:31:07,441 --> 00:31:10,601
Speaker 1: here that the coroner's report stated that there was no

538
00:31:10,681 --> 00:31:14,841
Speaker 1: evidence he returned to Queensland, but yet we've got Tasmanian

539
00:31:14,841 --> 00:31:19,401
Speaker 1: police saying that he definitely left Tasmania, but with no

540
00:31:19,561 --> 00:31:22,641
Speaker 1: facts or proof of that. And that leads you in

541
00:31:22,681 --> 00:31:24,881
Speaker 1: a position, like we talked about it before you touched

542
00:31:24,921 --> 00:31:28,761
Speaker 1: about giving your DNA. There was a problem with that too,

543
00:31:28,841 --> 00:31:30,681
Speaker 1: wasn't there where they didn't lodge it properly?

544
00:31:30,961 --> 00:31:32,161
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was myself.

545
00:31:32,321 --> 00:31:34,921
Speaker 4: It was me going to my local police station and

546
00:31:35,281 --> 00:31:39,121
Speaker 4: trying to ask some questions and get some understanding about

547
00:31:39,561 --> 00:31:42,681
Speaker 4: the case. And it was me that said, well, what

548
00:31:42,721 --> 00:31:45,481
Speaker 4: can I do can I give DNA? So it wasn't

549
00:31:45,481 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 4: them even coming to us as children of a missing

550
00:31:49,241 --> 00:31:52,481
Speaker 4: person once were of age to say, hey, John, to

551
00:31:52,481 --> 00:31:58,441
Speaker 4: give them DNA because it's actually children's DNA, the closest match, Yeah,

552
00:31:58,561 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 4: a stronger match than siblings. So yeah, I provided my

553
00:32:02,561 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 4: DNA thinking that it's going to be still on file

554
00:32:06,201 --> 00:32:09,361
Speaker 4: here and it's going to be stored on file to Tasmania,

555
00:32:09,441 --> 00:32:13,081
Speaker 4: to only learn as they were regathering their information and

556
00:32:13,121 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 4: their investigation to present it to the inquest that yeah,

557
00:32:17,601 --> 00:32:20,841
Speaker 4: my DNA just I don't know what happened to it

558
00:32:20,921 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 4: just wasn't on record.

559
00:32:22,921 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 1: And so they've lost the DNA. Is essentially two.

560
00:32:25,401 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 3: Thousand and seven DNA that was lost.

561
00:32:27,601 --> 00:32:31,161
Speaker 4: Yes, so I had to redo my DNA in twenty

562
00:32:31,281 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 4: twenty one for the inquest and they assured me that

563
00:32:35,041 --> 00:32:40,321
Speaker 4: it would be here in Queensland and definitely go to

564
00:32:40,361 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 4: Tasmania considering you know, that's where he went missing. And

565
00:32:43,481 --> 00:32:48,241
Speaker 4: all I do know now though Tasmania does own the case,

566
00:32:48,521 --> 00:32:53,361
Speaker 4: but that mishandling in the very early years has that

567
00:32:53,961 --> 00:32:56,921
Speaker 4: just ruined my whole case, you know what I mean.

568
00:32:56,841 --> 00:33:01,241
Speaker 1: Like the bureaucracies of we're not working together collectively, which

569
00:33:01,801 --> 00:33:04,321
Speaker 1: everyone by now who's listening to these podcasts is going

570
00:33:04,361 --> 00:33:06,721
Speaker 1: to go Sally's talking about it again. Yes I am,

571
00:33:06,801 --> 00:33:09,641
Speaker 1: because that's the important part of a message that we're

572
00:33:09,641 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 1: trying to get out there to heads of state, to

573
00:33:13,681 --> 00:33:17,601
Speaker 1: the Prime Minister of Australia. There's a problem here people.

574
00:33:17,641 --> 00:33:21,201
Speaker 1: If we're not working together collectively to find these long

575
00:33:21,281 --> 00:33:24,881
Speaker 1: term missing people, and everyone's passing the buck because it's

576
00:33:24,921 --> 00:33:27,641
Speaker 1: too difficult or they say they don't have resources or

577
00:33:27,641 --> 00:33:30,641
Speaker 1: what have you. That's not good enough. These people matter

578
00:33:30,921 --> 00:33:33,681
Speaker 1: absolutely and we need to do more about it.

579
00:33:34,081 --> 00:33:37,961
Speaker 3: But there's two and a half thousand long term missing people.

580
00:33:37,921 --> 00:33:38,761
Speaker 1: Nearly three thousand.

581
00:33:39,121 --> 00:33:40,161
Speaker 3: Their families matter.

582
00:33:40,681 --> 00:33:45,041
Speaker 1: We matter talking about that. We've got Tazzy police quoted

583
00:33:45,081 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 1: as saying we've got nobodies that are unaccounter for down here,

584
00:33:50,321 --> 00:33:53,521
Speaker 1: so we think he's on the mainland. That grinded my

585
00:33:53,601 --> 00:33:56,041
Speaker 1: gears big time, because that is just one big, massive assumption.

586
00:33:56,081 --> 00:33:58,161
Speaker 1: If you're going to say comments like that on a

587
00:33:58,201 --> 00:34:01,161
Speaker 1: missing person's report, you back it up with proof. I

588
00:34:01,441 --> 00:34:05,481
Speaker 1: then did a Google search. As of July twenty two three,

589
00:34:05,641 --> 00:34:09,001
Speaker 1: it was documented that Tazzi police in fact have seventy

590
00:34:09,041 --> 00:34:13,241
Speaker 1: one recorded sets of unidentified human remains, and as of

591
00:34:13,281 --> 00:34:15,681
Speaker 1: August twenty twenty five, there are one hundred and eighty

592
00:34:15,721 --> 00:34:19,561
Speaker 1: one long term missing persons listed in Tasmania dating back

593
00:34:19,561 --> 00:34:24,361
Speaker 1: to the fifties. So do you know if anything, has

594
00:34:24,401 --> 00:34:28,801
Speaker 1: Tazzi police taken your DNA? Have they tested your DNA

595
00:34:28,841 --> 00:34:32,081
Speaker 1: against those remains? Have you asked that question or has

596
00:34:32,121 --> 00:34:33,841
Speaker 1: anyone come to you and talked to you about that.

597
00:34:34,241 --> 00:34:37,561
Speaker 4: No, No one's come to talk to me about anything

598
00:34:37,601 --> 00:34:40,641
Speaker 4: that happens in Tazi. So I would think, you know,

599
00:34:40,841 --> 00:34:44,001
Speaker 4: being the fact that I have a long term missing person,

600
00:34:44,281 --> 00:34:45,961
Speaker 4: that you would be notified.

601
00:34:46,081 --> 00:34:47,121
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, nothing.

602
00:34:47,681 --> 00:34:51,121
Speaker 4: It was me. I rang the detective and said, hey,

603
00:34:51,201 --> 00:34:54,001
Speaker 4: I've heard that you've got this. I'm just ringing to

604
00:34:54,041 --> 00:34:56,721
Speaker 4: see if it would be a potential my dad.

605
00:34:56,761 --> 00:34:59,721
Speaker 3: And he instantly was like, it's not your father. How

606
00:34:59,721 --> 00:35:00,281
Speaker 3: do you know that?

607
00:35:00,721 --> 00:35:03,641
Speaker 4: Look at the whole picture here, there's as you have mentioned,

608
00:35:03,681 --> 00:35:07,801
Speaker 4: there's no actual factual evidence that he left Tasmania, which

609
00:35:07,801 --> 00:35:11,641
Speaker 4: also means there's no actual factual evidence that he arrived

610
00:35:11,681 --> 00:35:13,361
Speaker 4: on to the mainland.

611
00:35:13,481 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 3: So why are.

612
00:35:15,401 --> 00:35:18,601
Speaker 4: The Tazzi police not working with every state in Australia.

613
00:35:19,161 --> 00:35:22,921
Speaker 4: Why aren't they getting tested to be not just my dad,

614
00:35:23,321 --> 00:35:25,801
Speaker 4: but to be your mom. Who's to say that your

615
00:35:25,881 --> 00:35:28,041
Speaker 4: mom didn't make her way to wa correct?

616
00:35:28,401 --> 00:35:31,881
Speaker 1: Please correct me if I'm wrong here, But your dad

617
00:35:32,041 --> 00:35:36,881
Speaker 1: only was put onto the AFPs National Missing Person's Database

618
00:35:37,161 --> 00:35:41,481
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty one, and is that after the inquest.

619
00:35:42,361 --> 00:35:47,001
Speaker 4: It's the recorded investigation into death without inquest, without.

620
00:35:46,761 --> 00:35:49,681
Speaker 1: Inquest, so it's not technically an inquest. It's a coroner

621
00:35:50,081 --> 00:35:54,281
Speaker 1: looking over the information. This is them compiling the information.

622
00:35:54,921 --> 00:35:57,161
Speaker 1: And it saddens me really that there's two and a

623
00:35:57,201 --> 00:36:01,681
Speaker 1: bit pages of what's been documented and the fact that

624
00:36:01,681 --> 00:36:04,001
Speaker 1: it was done in twenty twenty one, that's thirty six

625
00:36:04,121 --> 00:36:05,521
Speaker 1: years after his diss parents.

626
00:36:05,681 --> 00:36:09,401
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I did have the choice to go to inquest.

627
00:36:09,721 --> 00:36:10,681
Speaker 1: Okay, all right.

628
00:36:10,841 --> 00:36:13,561
Speaker 4: I chose not to have an inquest because I couldn't

629
00:36:13,801 --> 00:36:16,561
Speaker 4: see the importance in it because of the little information

630
00:36:16,721 --> 00:36:22,241
Speaker 4: that we have. The main witness, mister Walter, had already passed,

631
00:36:22,801 --> 00:36:24,921
Speaker 4: so who were they going to call upon. I just

632
00:36:24,961 --> 00:36:26,761
Speaker 4: sort of found that it was going to be a

633
00:36:26,761 --> 00:36:30,321
Speaker 4: waste of resources and I'd rather than put those resources

634
00:36:30,361 --> 00:36:33,801
Speaker 4: to a testing those bones that are sitting around everywhere.

635
00:36:34,161 --> 00:36:37,401
Speaker 4: I also asked my aunts as well, what they wanted

636
00:36:37,401 --> 00:36:39,601
Speaker 4: to do. They sort of left it up to me,

637
00:36:40,361 --> 00:36:43,961
Speaker 4: but I also couldn't bring myself to put them through that.

638
00:36:44,561 --> 00:36:48,081
Speaker 4: Throughout my whole whole journey of this over the last

639
00:36:48,521 --> 00:36:53,721
Speaker 4: forty odd years, I've always been extremely extremely mindful of

640
00:36:53,881 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 4: discussing it with my aunts or talking about my dad

641
00:36:57,841 --> 00:37:04,041
Speaker 4: with my aunts because that's their brother and that's they

642
00:37:04,121 --> 00:37:06,801
Speaker 4: were four. They were there, they were at the forefront.

643
00:37:07,001 --> 00:37:09,641
Speaker 4: That's a lot of and they were amazing. Can I

644
00:37:09,721 --> 00:37:14,081
Speaker 4: just say absolutely? You know, obviously their dad had passed away,

645
00:37:14,721 --> 00:37:19,601
Speaker 4: their only brother had then vanished, their mother, they you know,

646
00:37:19,721 --> 00:37:22,721
Speaker 4: were supporting who had her own mental health issues. So

647
00:37:23,521 --> 00:37:25,961
Speaker 4: you know, for them being on the front foot and

648
00:37:25,961 --> 00:37:33,121
Speaker 4: then navigating and maintaining that family connection with my mother

649
00:37:33,481 --> 00:37:37,641
Speaker 4: to maintain contact with Adam, and I like, they they're amazing,

650
00:37:37,801 --> 00:37:40,001
Speaker 4: Like I have so much, so much.

651
00:37:39,801 --> 00:37:42,561
Speaker 3: Love and appreciation and gratitude, And.

652
00:37:43,081 --> 00:37:46,321
Speaker 4: You know, I often sort of passes my head that

653
00:37:47,681 --> 00:37:51,281
Speaker 4: if Dad knew anything, he knew that we'd be okay

654
00:37:51,321 --> 00:37:55,721
Speaker 4: and we would be supported and loved by his family.

655
00:37:57,241 --> 00:38:00,601
Speaker 4: But perhaps that's what sort of gave him a bit

656
00:38:00,601 --> 00:38:04,681
Speaker 4: of a reassurance, and maybe because of that reassurance, It's

657
00:38:04,721 --> 00:38:07,201
Speaker 4: what pushed him to do whatever he did because at

658
00:38:07,201 --> 00:38:08,641
Speaker 4: the end of the day, he knew that we would

659
00:38:08,641 --> 00:38:09,881
Speaker 4: be dafter from them.

660
00:38:11,841 --> 00:38:13,801
Speaker 1: And that was something I remember when I first spoke

661
00:38:13,841 --> 00:38:15,561
Speaker 1: to you. That was important for you to have a

662
00:38:15,641 --> 00:38:19,081
Speaker 1: voice in your dad's case because you were the little

663
00:38:19,081 --> 00:38:21,881
Speaker 1: baby whose dad went missing and you were sort of protected,

664
00:38:21,921 --> 00:38:26,521
Speaker 1: I guess by everybody. But now you're here, you're a

665
00:38:26,601 --> 00:38:29,921
Speaker 1: mum yourself, You're an adult living in this and it's

666
00:38:29,961 --> 00:38:33,081
Speaker 1: forty years on and there's it's not getting any easier.

667
00:38:33,961 --> 00:38:37,241
Speaker 4: Strangely, it doesn't doesn't Like I remember being younger, and

668
00:38:37,321 --> 00:38:40,401
Speaker 4: you know, you see people like your parents or your parents'

669
00:38:40,401 --> 00:38:43,201
Speaker 4: friends and stuff like that, and they discuss about, you know,

670
00:38:43,281 --> 00:38:46,361
Speaker 4: how they get older. I even remember my Unie Dye

671
00:38:46,521 --> 00:38:49,281
Speaker 4: talking about it wasn't called the circle of life, but

672
00:38:49,401 --> 00:38:52,241
Speaker 4: she with what I recall was like, you know, as

673
00:38:52,281 --> 00:38:56,201
Speaker 4: you moved through life, you have not very good relationship

674
00:38:56,241 --> 00:38:58,761
Speaker 4: with your parents because your friends are more important.

675
00:38:58,841 --> 00:39:00,441
Speaker 3: And you know, forty.

676
00:39:00,161 --> 00:39:03,361
Speaker 4: Seven, I'm in that phase where you know you want

677
00:39:03,441 --> 00:39:06,521
Speaker 4: nothing more and you would appreciate this yourself. You want

678
00:39:06,521 --> 00:39:11,641
Speaker 4: nothing more than your parents, yes, so sadly, and because

679
00:39:11,681 --> 00:39:12,241
Speaker 4: of that.

680
00:39:12,561 --> 00:39:13,321
Speaker 3: It gets harder.

681
00:39:15,121 --> 00:39:17,921
Speaker 1: So can I ask you? I have tried to find

682
00:39:17,921 --> 00:39:20,881
Speaker 1: a reward for your dad online, but I couldn't find anything.

683
00:39:21,361 --> 00:39:23,121
Speaker 3: No, there isn't one. There isn't one.

684
00:39:23,561 --> 00:39:26,721
Speaker 1: How does that make you feel when other people have

685
00:39:26,801 --> 00:39:29,241
Speaker 1: rewards and your dad doesn't?

686
00:39:30,081 --> 00:39:30,801
Speaker 3: Angry?

687
00:39:31,161 --> 00:39:33,561
Speaker 4: A lot of it makes you feel angry, to be honest,

688
00:39:33,561 --> 00:39:39,601
Speaker 4: there is so much unjust towards people, Like why does

689
00:39:40,361 --> 00:39:44,321
Speaker 4: that person that's got that fifty thousand dollar reward only

690
00:39:44,361 --> 00:39:47,721
Speaker 4: deserve fifty thousand, but that person that's got a half

691
00:39:47,761 --> 00:39:50,441
Speaker 4: a million dollar reward deserves half a million?

692
00:39:51,401 --> 00:39:52,001
Speaker 3: But what's that?

693
00:39:52,081 --> 00:39:56,561
Speaker 4: What makes them more important than my dad? Like, Okay,

694
00:39:56,601 --> 00:39:59,361
Speaker 4: he's my dad. He's important to me because he's my dad,

695
00:39:59,441 --> 00:40:05,041
Speaker 4: But he's important because he's a human and he matters.

696
00:40:05,041 --> 00:40:11,121
Speaker 4: It's important because throughout his short thirty two years he

697
00:40:11,281 --> 00:40:15,961
Speaker 4: touched people's lives. Like I mean, I experienced probably one

698
00:40:15,961 --> 00:40:20,001
Speaker 4: of the most amazing things that I've ever experienced this

699
00:40:20,081 --> 00:40:24,241
Speaker 4: year through Missing Person's Week, when Nicole put Dad's post

700
00:40:24,361 --> 00:40:29,881
Speaker 4: up and one of his school acquaintances commented, Now, I've

701
00:40:30,001 --> 00:40:34,121
Speaker 4: never ever ever come across anybody that knows my dad

702
00:40:34,801 --> 00:40:39,401
Speaker 4: outside of my family, and to have this lady comment

703
00:40:40,561 --> 00:40:45,841
Speaker 4: was just absolutely amazing, absolutely amazing. She actually sent me

704
00:40:46,001 --> 00:40:49,241
Speaker 4: through some school photos of Dad, you know, like we're

705
00:40:49,241 --> 00:40:53,001
Speaker 4: talking primary schools, so if you can remember someone from

706
00:40:53,041 --> 00:40:57,361
Speaker 4: primary school, they obviously made an impact. There was something

707
00:40:57,441 --> 00:41:00,721
Speaker 4: about them that made you go oh. And it was

708
00:41:01,041 --> 00:41:04,321
Speaker 4: her and two of her friends had never known that

709
00:41:04,601 --> 00:41:08,241
Speaker 4: Dad was a missing person until Nicole launched her book,

710
00:41:09,001 --> 00:41:11,521
Speaker 4: and Kate's someone that works for I think it's a

711
00:41:11,801 --> 00:41:13,961
Speaker 4: career mail did a little bit of a write up

712
00:41:14,001 --> 00:41:16,801
Speaker 4: about Dad and that's how they found out.

713
00:41:16,641 --> 00:41:18,881
Speaker 1: Because there hasn't been a lot of media about your

714
00:41:18,961 --> 00:41:23,161
Speaker 1: dad or any help in trying to make awareness in

715
00:41:23,241 --> 00:41:23,881
Speaker 1: his case.

716
00:41:24,121 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 3: Absolutely none.

717
00:41:24,961 --> 00:41:26,561
Speaker 1: That's why as soon as we saw you were like,

718
00:41:27,041 --> 00:41:28,401
Speaker 1: we want to talk to you, We want to help,

719
00:41:28,441 --> 00:41:30,401
Speaker 1: We want to help if we can, you know, because

720
00:41:30,961 --> 00:41:33,641
Speaker 1: I know what that feels like, Like I know, my

721
00:41:33,721 --> 00:41:36,081
Speaker 1: mum's case is very well known now there are still

722
00:41:36,081 --> 00:41:39,081
Speaker 1: people that don't know. And it took me twenty two

723
00:41:39,161 --> 00:41:41,401
Speaker 1: years to get to that point, so it's not like

724
00:41:41,441 --> 00:41:43,681
Speaker 1: it's been like that forever. It was very difficult, and

725
00:41:43,721 --> 00:41:46,721
Speaker 1: I very much remember the times. You know, lots of errors,

726
00:41:46,801 --> 00:41:50,281
Speaker 1: lots of problems in the case. There is an error

727
00:41:50,281 --> 00:41:53,281
Speaker 1: that I want to talk about actually before we finish

728
00:41:53,401 --> 00:41:55,321
Speaker 1: up today, because I think it's important to put it

729
00:41:55,361 --> 00:41:59,961
Speaker 1: out there. But when we're talking about information, you have

730
00:42:00,161 --> 00:42:05,081
Speaker 1: mentioned that the inquest findings were flawed and focused a

731
00:42:05,081 --> 00:42:10,121
Speaker 1: portunately on mental health speculation. As I mentioned, the coronial

732
00:42:10,161 --> 00:42:14,281
Speaker 1: process only happened in twenty twenty one, so thirty six

733
00:42:14,361 --> 00:42:19,161
Speaker 1: years after Billy is missing, and it wasn't an increase

734
00:42:19,201 --> 00:42:22,321
Speaker 1: which we've discussed. It was a record of investigation into

735
00:42:22,441 --> 00:42:25,801
Speaker 1: death through a magistrate's court on the fourth of May

736
00:42:25,881 --> 00:42:30,001
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one in Tasmania. But we've actually got information

737
00:42:30,161 --> 00:42:33,241
Speaker 1: in there that states that Billy's mum reported him missing,

738
00:42:34,041 --> 00:42:37,681
Speaker 1: when in actual fact it was ray his sister to

739
00:42:37,761 --> 00:42:43,161
Speaker 1: Queensland Police on the twentieth of June nineteen eighty nine. Okay, guys,

740
00:42:43,241 --> 00:42:48,561
Speaker 1: this is actually on the record of investigation. It's very

741
00:42:48,601 --> 00:42:51,721
Speaker 1: well stated everywhere that Billy went missing in nineteen eighty five.

742
00:42:52,201 --> 00:42:58,081
Speaker 1: That's four years earlier. How does that affect you when

743
00:42:58,081 --> 00:42:59,281
Speaker 1: you see errors.

744
00:42:59,081 --> 00:43:04,121
Speaker 4: Like that again, it makes me angry just to touch

745
00:43:04,521 --> 00:43:07,121
Speaker 4: space on your question about him not being on the

746
00:43:07,161 --> 00:43:11,721
Speaker 4: AFP register until twenty twenty one, that that's actually incorrect.

747
00:43:11,801 --> 00:43:14,881
Speaker 4: He was on the AFP Registerr and has always been

748
00:43:14,881 --> 00:43:16,161
Speaker 4: on the AFP Registrar.

749
00:43:17,121 --> 00:43:21,041
Speaker 3: He was under different spelling, so.

750
00:43:21,321 --> 00:43:23,601
Speaker 1: Okay, that's probably why I've found that.

751
00:43:23,761 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 4: Okay, Yeah, So it took me until twenty twenty one

752
00:43:28,281 --> 00:43:32,961
Speaker 4: to get our surname spelled correctly. Right, So my dad

753
00:43:33,081 --> 00:43:37,441
Speaker 4: was on the AFP Registrar as William Francis Stephan, but

754
00:43:37,601 --> 00:43:44,440
Speaker 4: Stephan was spelt An not Stublefen, and no matter how

755
00:43:44,481 --> 00:43:48,321
Speaker 4: many times I requested it to get changed, it just

756
00:43:48,401 --> 00:43:53,921
Speaker 4: didn't seem to occur moving on into the inquest. When

757
00:43:53,921 --> 00:43:58,321
Speaker 4: the inquest first came out, there was several mistakes even

758
00:43:58,401 --> 00:44:01,001
Speaker 4: down and I know I'm probably being pedantic, but I.

759
00:44:00,961 --> 00:44:03,961
Speaker 3: Think when you're think you're allowed to be dealing.

760
00:44:03,641 --> 00:44:08,001
Speaker 4: With things like this where every little detail does matter,

761
00:44:08,841 --> 00:44:12,201
Speaker 4: but you're also dealing with the government, why are they

762
00:44:12,961 --> 00:44:16,881
Speaker 4: being sloppy with their work? So my name was spelled incorrectly.

763
00:44:17,201 --> 00:44:20,321
Speaker 4: There is still within the current inquest there is still

764
00:44:20,321 --> 00:44:23,401
Speaker 4: a mistake where it says that he married in nineteen

765
00:44:23,681 --> 00:44:27,681
Speaker 4: around nineteen seventy eight, which is a complete lie. I

766
00:44:27,841 --> 00:44:31,361
Speaker 4: was born in seventy eight. My parents married when my

767
00:44:31,481 --> 00:44:34,201
Speaker 4: brother was young. My brother was about six months old,

768
00:44:34,241 --> 00:44:37,881
Speaker 4: so that would make it nineteen seventy six that they married.

769
00:44:38,801 --> 00:44:42,601
Speaker 4: But to get the spelling of the names changed, I

770
00:44:42,641 --> 00:44:46,801
Speaker 4: actually had to prove my identity. I couldn't ring and

771
00:44:47,161 --> 00:44:50,121
Speaker 4: or email and just say, hey, listen, I'm Susi on.

772
00:44:50,561 --> 00:44:54,440
Speaker 4: I actually had to have JP signed documents and prove

773
00:44:54,521 --> 00:44:55,241
Speaker 4: my identity.

774
00:44:55,321 --> 00:44:57,801
Speaker 3: And I'm like, really, like, who.

775
00:44:57,641 --> 00:45:00,161
Speaker 4: In the right mind what person is just going to

776
00:45:00,241 --> 00:45:03,601
Speaker 4: randomly email you or bring you up and say, by

777
00:45:03,641 --> 00:45:05,761
Speaker 4: the way, this spelling is incorrect, can you fix it?

778
00:45:06,361 --> 00:45:08,881
Speaker 4: And you know, I'm emailing you on an email that

779
00:45:09,161 --> 00:45:13,601
Speaker 4: you actually just emailed two to send me this in quest,

780
00:45:13,721 --> 00:45:16,041
Speaker 4: so I'm coming back to you from the same email.

781
00:45:16,601 --> 00:45:18,441
Speaker 1: It doesn't make any sense, Yes, And they just make

782
00:45:18,481 --> 00:45:22,001
Speaker 1: it so difficult, don't they. That is unnecessary, Absolutely unnecessary,

783
00:45:22,041 --> 00:45:25,201
Speaker 1: and it's important. But in retrospect as well, like it

784
00:45:25,481 --> 00:45:28,761
Speaker 1: has been mentioned throughout I'm pretty sure Nicole's book and

785
00:45:29,041 --> 00:45:32,641
Speaker 1: I know within the police files in general, Dad was

786
00:45:33,041 --> 00:45:37,001
Speaker 1: no one to use aliases when he was on AFP

787
00:45:37,241 --> 00:45:42,921
Speaker 1: register as Stublefan. In one sense it was it was annoying,

788
00:45:42,961 --> 00:45:45,481
Speaker 1: It was very frustrating and annoying, But in the other sense,

789
00:45:45,521 --> 00:45:48,041
Speaker 1: it was like, well, you know, somebody pops up with

790
00:45:48,121 --> 00:45:48,641
Speaker 1: that spelling.

791
00:45:48,721 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 3: Could it actually be him?

792
00:45:50,681 --> 00:45:55,521
Speaker 4: But details matter, people, Details absolutely matter, and they would.

793
00:45:55,241 --> 00:45:57,641
Speaker 1: Think, like you use the word sloppy, I think that's

794
00:45:57,641 --> 00:46:01,681
Speaker 1: a great word for it, because it's important these people.

795
00:46:01,681 --> 00:46:03,801
Speaker 1: When you're putting out proof of life checks and you're

796
00:46:04,201 --> 00:46:08,001
Speaker 1: doing DNA and things like that, the information should be

797
00:46:08,161 --> 00:46:13,521
Speaker 1: absolutely mickey mouse, absolutely errors, no errors. This is what

798
00:46:13,561 --> 00:46:16,641
Speaker 1: you're paid to do. So we've talked about a lot today.

799
00:46:17,401 --> 00:46:20,361
Speaker 1: I hope. I know it's a massive rollercoaster. I get

800
00:46:20,401 --> 00:46:26,241
Speaker 1: it completely. I have here that you said something pretty powerful.

801
00:46:26,481 --> 00:46:29,441
Speaker 1: You know, why is one person's life deemed more important

802
00:46:29,761 --> 00:46:34,761
Speaker 1: than another's? I want you to explain for us on

803
00:46:34,961 --> 00:46:39,601
Speaker 1: what equality in recognition would mean for your dad and

804
00:46:39,721 --> 00:46:41,001
Speaker 1: others in the similar situation.

805
00:46:42,041 --> 00:46:45,321
Speaker 4: I found that really challenging when I've read that, Like,

806
00:46:45,361 --> 00:46:47,561
Speaker 4: I know that that was my statement, but I'm not

807
00:46:47,641 --> 00:46:52,161
Speaker 4: sure how I can articulate and explain what that means. Because,

808
00:46:52,441 --> 00:46:55,361
Speaker 4: as I just said before, when we were going on

809
00:46:55,401 --> 00:47:00,241
Speaker 4: about the sloppy work and how detailed matters and their rewards.

810
00:46:59,681 --> 00:47:02,121
Speaker 3: And how some get them and some don't, Like.

811
00:47:03,561 --> 00:47:08,801
Speaker 4: He's a human, you have people out there that, you know,

812
00:47:08,921 --> 00:47:13,041
Speaker 4: like against abortion because a fetus at twelve weeks has

813
00:47:13,041 --> 00:47:18,241
Speaker 4: a heartbeat, and they're advocating for those people that matter

814
00:47:18,761 --> 00:47:21,721
Speaker 4: and that they didn't get a chance to grow and

815
00:47:21,761 --> 00:47:26,961
Speaker 4: develop and become an actual, living, walking human. How is

816
00:47:27,001 --> 00:47:30,321
Speaker 4: it any different to my dad? How is it any

817
00:47:30,361 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 4: different to your mum? Why does it need to come

818
00:47:33,561 --> 00:47:39,601
Speaker 4: down to somebody's race, religion, belief, sexuality, or age before

819
00:47:39,681 --> 00:47:44,201
Speaker 4: they actually matter. Why can't we just have my dad here,

820
00:47:44,921 --> 00:47:50,001
Speaker 4: who is a human being. He's obviously a father, he's

821
00:47:50,041 --> 00:47:53,081
Speaker 4: a brother, he was a son, he's an uncle, he

822
00:47:53,201 --> 00:47:54,921
Speaker 4: was a cousin, he was a friend.

823
00:47:56,321 --> 00:47:58,761
Speaker 3: Why does he not matter enough to have a half.

824
00:47:58,641 --> 00:48:04,401
Speaker 4: A million dollar reward versus somebody else's son, brother, uncle, cousin, friend.

825
00:48:05,441 --> 00:48:07,481
Speaker 3: We are all one, you know.

826
00:48:07,481 --> 00:48:10,561
Speaker 4: People bang on just in general society that we are

827
00:48:10,561 --> 00:48:13,721
Speaker 4: all one, and you know, stop the hate, stop this,

828
00:48:13,801 --> 00:48:19,561
Speaker 4: stop that it's across every every sort of facet of life, unfortunately,

829
00:48:20,241 --> 00:48:23,241
Speaker 4: and I just am really passionate. I guess in that

830
00:48:23,401 --> 00:48:27,241
Speaker 4: sense that it doesn't matter who you are, whether you're

831
00:48:27,281 --> 00:48:32,041
Speaker 4: a missing person, whether you're a Jehovah witness, whether your

832
00:48:32,321 --> 00:48:39,641
Speaker 4: sexual orientation is that of homosexuality, doesn't matter, whether you're two,

833
00:48:39,881 --> 00:48:41,241
Speaker 4: whether you're sixty two.

834
00:48:42,201 --> 00:48:48,081
Speaker 3: You matter. Every single person matters, so make it equal.

835
00:48:49,321 --> 00:48:51,481
Speaker 3: They all matter, absolutely, they will matter, and.

836
00:48:51,481 --> 00:48:54,121
Speaker 1: Your dad matters. And I'm really grateful for you coming

837
00:48:54,121 --> 00:48:58,041
Speaker 1: on and talking to me, and I hope that it's

838
00:48:58,041 --> 00:49:03,281
Speaker 1: been helpful. I hope that we can help more in

839
00:49:03,361 --> 00:49:06,921
Speaker 1: this space in giving you some solace and some peace

840
00:49:07,441 --> 00:49:10,321
Speaker 1: and finding some more information that might help you and

841
00:49:10,361 --> 00:49:16,561
Speaker 1: your family know what happened to your dad, Billy. Yeah,

842
00:49:16,721 --> 00:49:20,201
Speaker 1: it's been a long time and you deserve peace. How

843
00:49:20,241 --> 00:49:23,081
Speaker 1: can people find you to contact you?

844
00:49:23,401 --> 00:49:23,921
Speaker 3: Facebook?

845
00:49:23,921 --> 00:49:26,881
Speaker 4: I guess is you know, generally the best and only

846
00:49:26,921 --> 00:49:31,761
Speaker 4: place really Facebook. My Facebook is just it's my personal one,

847
00:49:31,841 --> 00:49:34,321
Speaker 4: So it's just SUSI Studley s U s I E

848
00:49:34,601 --> 00:49:37,281
Speaker 4: S T w D. So yeah, you can't get me

849
00:49:37,321 --> 00:49:39,681
Speaker 4: wrong if you if you make sure Dad is the

850
00:49:39,721 --> 00:49:42,401
Speaker 4: one that you click on, and Dad's thereh as my

851
00:49:42,441 --> 00:49:45,561
Speaker 4: cover photo, that's me. So they're always welcome to reach

852
00:49:45,641 --> 00:49:49,121
Speaker 4: out personally like that. Obviously, I understand yourself would be

853
00:49:49,201 --> 00:49:53,561
Speaker 4: happy to take care of messages through the Missing Matters or.

854
00:49:54,281 --> 00:49:56,361
Speaker 1: So we have a we have an email that people

855
00:49:56,401 --> 00:50:00,561
Speaker 1: can email us on at info at missingmatter dot com.

856
00:50:00,961 --> 00:50:03,440
Speaker 1: Obviously I've got my Facebook pages as well, where people

857
00:50:03,521 --> 00:50:05,721
Speaker 1: do comment on there as well, but any that comes

858
00:50:05,761 --> 00:50:10,241
Speaker 1: forward I share with those of my previous fellow guests

859
00:50:10,281 --> 00:50:11,841
Speaker 1: who have come on and had to chat with me.

860
00:50:12,481 --> 00:50:16,001
Speaker 1: So yeah, we wish you all the best, and I'm

861
00:50:16,041 --> 00:50:18,001
Speaker 1: really grateful for you making the effort to come in.

862
00:50:18,361 --> 00:50:18,801
Speaker 3: Thank you.

863
00:50:19,081 --> 00:50:19,481
Speaker 1: Thank you.

864
00:50:22,001 --> 00:50:22,681
Speaker 3: Next week.

865
00:50:23,001 --> 00:50:27,361
Speaker 5: On the missing matter, I wanted to call Mum and

866
00:50:27,401 --> 00:50:29,841
Speaker 5: say you're having a heart and I didn't expect for

867
00:50:29,881 --> 00:50:32,641
Speaker 5: her to answer the phone, but I just remember when

868
00:50:32,641 --> 00:50:35,081
Speaker 5: I got to that point, my heart just sunk and

869
00:50:35,121 --> 00:50:36,681
Speaker 5: I just got this light. It was like I'd been

870
00:50:36,761 --> 00:50:38,440
Speaker 5: kicked in the Guard and the guards in the Guard

871
00:50:39,561 --> 00:50:41,281
Speaker 5: that would you to fly back to Melbourne on that day,

872
00:50:41,681 --> 00:50:45,121
Speaker 5: And when they missed their flights, then that's when I

873
00:50:45,121 --> 00:50:47,881
Speaker 5: guess it made it all the more real that there

874
00:50:47,961 --> 00:50:50,441
Speaker 5: is something really bad going on, because Mum wouldn't have

875
00:50:50,441 --> 00:50:54,161
Speaker 5: missed that either. My family was really important to Mum.

876
00:50:54,841 --> 00:50:56,281
Speaker 5: And then she said, look, baby, I've got to go,

877
00:50:56,641 --> 00:50:59,001
Speaker 5: but i'll see you when I get home, and don't forget.

878
00:50:58,681 --> 00:51:00,001
Speaker 1: How much I love you and how proud of you

879
00:51:00,041 --> 00:51:00,281
Speaker 1: I am.

880
00:51:00,441 --> 00:51:02,881
Speaker 5: And then I said, yeah, I love you too, Mum,

881
00:51:03,361 --> 00:51:06,561
Speaker 5: And I didn't think anything more of it. But how

882
00:51:06,601 --> 00:51:09,041
Speaker 5: prolific those words, those final words, ended up being, I

883
00:51:09,041 --> 00:51:17,081
Speaker 5: guess