WEBVTT - BONUS: Our Two Cents on Jan 26 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:02.680 Before we get started, we'd like to acknowledge the custodians 0:00:02.680 --> 0:00:04.400 of the land on which we record, and today for 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:06.600 me that's the Gatigel people of the eur nation. 0:00:06.880 --> 0:00:09.639 And for me Zoraundry people of the Cooler nation. 0:00:12.039 --> 0:00:14.320 Hi, Hi, how are you good? 0:00:14.720 --> 0:00:15.040 How are you? 0:00:15.560 --> 0:00:18.320 Oh? Look, I'm doing all right. I feel like it's 0:00:19.320 --> 0:00:21.720 at that time of the year again where my ears 0:00:21.760 --> 0:00:23.560 start to perk up and I start to hear a 0:00:23.600 --> 0:00:26.960 lot of conversations about our community. It's a controversial time, 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:30.840 I must say, for our country. But I also think 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:34.559 that we have mixed feelings about this date. And I 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:37.040 also think that you know, as you've mentioned earlier, that 0:00:37.240 --> 0:00:40.680 you're a bit exhausted by this conversation a little bit. 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:44.040 I think I'm fatigued from many things, but I think 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:47.800 it feels a little bit different to me, like normally 0:00:48.400 --> 0:00:52.519 this time comes around and I am exhausted about having 0:00:52.560 --> 0:00:56.760 the same conversation. Yeah, but I think I'm just now 0:00:56.800 --> 0:00:59.880 getting at my teather where it's just I feel like 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:03.520 I'm a little hamster on a wheel or it's Groundhog 0:01:03.640 --> 0:01:06.520 Day and I'm repeating the same shit the. 0:01:06.520 --> 0:01:08.080 Same day every year. 0:01:08.640 --> 0:01:08.880 Yeah. 0:01:08.920 --> 0:01:10.480 Well, I'm seeing no change. 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:13.400 Yeah, I mean, I feel you and I hear you, 0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:16.640 and this episode for our listeners is a bonus episode 0:01:16.680 --> 0:01:19.920 to get our take on January twenty sixth or whatever 0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:22.039 you call that day. You might call it Australia Day, 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:25.120 Survival Day, Invasion Day, but it is a date that 0:01:25.200 --> 0:01:27.440 we believe and we both have a similar opinion to 0:01:27.480 --> 0:01:29.640 each other when it comes to what our stance is, 0:01:29.680 --> 0:01:33.280 and it's that the date should change. This conversation happens 0:01:33.360 --> 0:01:36.280 every year and our community is brought into the fold 0:01:36.280 --> 0:01:39.280 of this yarn time and time again, but yet there 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:42.280 hasn't been much change. So I think that this bonus 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:44.880 episode is just getting our take on how we feel 0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:47.800 about the day and why we believe that it's important 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:48.600 to change the date. 0:01:48.920 --> 0:01:52.440 This holiday is a new holiday typically, like this day 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:56.400 is a new day. I think in the eyes of history, 0:01:57.320 --> 0:02:01.080 it's only been around since ninety four. I'm a ninety 0:02:01.120 --> 0:02:05.920 five baby, so it's been around for thirty one years. Yeah, 0:02:05.960 --> 0:02:10.480 so it's really new into the establishment of public holidays 0:02:10.639 --> 0:02:17.160 and days to celebrate. But since then, I think our 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:23.400 family and community have been protesting that this day that 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:28.600 they established wasn't right from the get go, and they've 0:02:28.639 --> 0:02:34.600 protested many many many years to have the date changed 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:37.400 or take pretty much abolished. 0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:40.919 Yeah, there's definitely been a shifting conversation over the years. 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:43.120 I would say, like, yeah, there was you know, the 0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:46.760 change the date debate, and then there was some parts 0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:49.320 of our community and people outside of our community that 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:50.480 wanted to abolish the date. 0:02:50.880 --> 0:02:53.680 Do you either give context to both of those for 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:57.000 our new listeners or people who don't know the difference 0:02:57.040 --> 0:02:57.760 between them both? 0:02:57.960 --> 0:03:01.920 Yeah, absolutely, So the argument for changing the date is 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:04.360 that this is should be seen as a day of mourning. This, 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:10.200 you know, was the date that a Brooke Bony once 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:12.720 said it beautifully on the Today Show that it was 0:03:12.880 --> 0:03:16.000 the start or the end for our people. And I 0:03:16.080 --> 0:03:19.360 believe that that perfectly sums up why this date is 0:03:19.400 --> 0:03:22.360 important to be a day of mourning. It is a 0:03:22.480 --> 0:03:28.720 day that really symbolizes the hostility and the brutal invasion 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:33.560 and colonial regime that has brought so much trauma and 0:03:33.639 --> 0:03:38.520 so much grief to our community that we continuously live 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:42.400 with through intergenerational trauma. And I believe that, you know, 0:03:42.520 --> 0:03:45.200 changing the date is a super important conversation that our 0:03:45.200 --> 0:03:48.360 community should be having and the understanding why we should 0:03:48.360 --> 0:03:51.520 be changing the date. My opinion actually has evolved over 0:03:51.520 --> 0:03:53.840 the years as I've you know, gotten older and become 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:59.760 more aware of the context to this date for our community, 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:02.560 but also wider Australia. The reason I believe that we 0:04:02.560 --> 0:04:05.720 should change the day is because deep in my heart, 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:09.560 I love our country. I believe that this country represents 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:12.160 so much for so many people. I believe that we 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:15.640 inherently are good people, and I think that this country 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:18.520 is home to many more people and diverse communities than 0:04:18.640 --> 0:04:21.479 just our community, the first nation's community, and I think 0:04:21.520 --> 0:04:23.840 we need to respect that because it isn't what it 0:04:23.880 --> 0:04:26.400 once was, but it is what it is now, and 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:30.680 I believe that we should be respecting the diversity and 0:04:30.720 --> 0:04:35.039 the multicultural society that we have. But that also has 0:04:35.080 --> 0:04:39.520 to coincide with respect for our people and the country 0:04:39.560 --> 0:04:43.240 that was here pre colonization, and that is super important 0:04:43.279 --> 0:04:46.640 to me for the wider community to understand that this 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:50.000 country isn't a young country when it comes to the 0:04:50.120 --> 0:04:53.400 land and the culture. It's a very old, ancient country 0:04:53.839 --> 0:05:00.040 and historically the education system has only ever referenced the 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:02.839 last two hundred and fifty years. And I believe that 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:05.400 this country has a much longer history book than two 0:05:05.440 --> 0:05:08.440 hundred and fifty years. There's evidence that we're the oldest 0:05:08.480 --> 0:05:13.640 living civilization on Earth sixty plus thousand years. Now. If 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:16.920 that isn't something to celebrate as a nation and something 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:21.120 to respect and even more in terms of the loss 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:25.480 of what that is, then I feel like we as 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:28.440 a collective don't really understand what we have in our hands. 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:31.880 And for me, changing the date is about recognizing that 0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:34.960 history is about respecting what that is and what that was, 0:05:35.000 --> 0:05:37.960 and how much that our country depends on that connection 0:05:38.080 --> 0:05:40.240 to culture and land, even when a lot of people 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:43.000 don't recognize that. So changing the date means that there 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:45.599 it can be another day in our country's calendar where 0:05:45.640 --> 0:05:49.840 we come together and we celebrate what this country is 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:53.360 for so many different people. That doesn't mean that it's 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:58.640 mutually exclusive to the trauma and the impact or colonization 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:02.080 that has happened for our community. Some people in our 0:06:02.080 --> 0:06:04.640 community but also outside of our community, think that these 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:08.440 things are mutually exclusive, that you can't celebrate Australia or 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:11.760 Australia Day on a different date. I'm saying because of 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:14.719 the trauma that has impacted our community and what colonization 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:18.039 has done to our culture and community. I think these 0:06:18.080 --> 0:06:21.920 things coexist. Now. You know, we have on one hand, 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:25.960 a beautiful nation with so much opportunity. It offers so 0:06:26.040 --> 0:06:29.279 much to so many different communities as well, But it 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:33.760 doesn't mean that then we forget what that has also 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:37.159 done to our community and the brutal trauma that has 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:39.960 been passed down due to colonization. So I think that 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:42.920 it's about having an approach where we respect all people 0:06:44.360 --> 0:06:46.599 and honor our first nation's culture. 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:49.200 Yes, I think that was the key word that I 0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:52.279 was kind of thinking of when you said honor. I 0:06:52.320 --> 0:06:55.760 think respect comes to mind, and I think they go 0:06:55.920 --> 0:06:59.760 hand in hand. I think the difficult thing for me 0:07:01.160 --> 0:07:06.080 and frustrating thing as well, is that a lot of 0:07:06.120 --> 0:07:09.640 people will argue, and I'm talking mostly like non Indigenous 0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:13.679 people will say, well, I don't understand the connection to land, 0:07:14.120 --> 0:07:16.720 or I don't have the connection to land. You don't 0:07:16.720 --> 0:07:20.760 necessarily have to have any type of connection to land 0:07:20.920 --> 0:07:24.640 to acknowledge other people's connection to land. And I think 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:28.520 that's like the ignorance that I'm experiencing is that, oh, 0:07:28.600 --> 0:07:30.000 it happened so long ago. 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:31.080 No it didn't. 0:07:31.480 --> 0:07:34.560 This is a new country in so many different ways, 0:07:35.440 --> 0:07:41.119 and it's built off genocide, like and yet we don't 0:07:41.120 --> 0:07:45.560 have a national day where we can mourn. It's yet, Yeah, 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:49.480 it's it's a day of celebration where we celebrate what. 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:52.640 You know. We spoke to Usher the other day and 0:07:52.720 --> 0:07:54.720 I said, I don't really feel that we have an 0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:58.680 Australian culture, and he argued that we do, and I 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:01.840 had to I kind of disagree, Like I feel like 0:08:01.880 --> 0:08:05.880 we don't really have like a national identity because we're 0:08:05.880 --> 0:08:10.880 not really full forward. We're not forefront of telling the truth. 0:08:11.120 --> 0:08:14.040 Like as a nation, we can't even tell the truth 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:16.680 of our history. So how do we have a national 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:20.320 identity if we can't tell the truth. So I have 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:25.600 a very difficult and frustrating experience trying to understand these 0:08:25.640 --> 0:08:28.120 people that argue, oh, well, I don't have a connection 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:30.840 to land, therefore I don't need to acknowledge it. 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:33.439 And it's like it's just so disrespectful. 0:08:33.600 --> 0:08:36.160 And I think this is one thing that I would 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:39.280 love to encourage, But it's like, how do you convert 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:42.719 the eyes that are people's eyes aren't open, you know 0:08:42.760 --> 0:08:43.160 what I mean? 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:45.959 Well, I believe that we're in a time right now 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:49.840 where the political climate is allowing people to really show 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:52.440 these extreme views and divisive views. 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:54.400 Do you think that's really scary. 0:08:54.920 --> 0:08:57.400 I think it's scary, But I also think it comes 0:08:57.440 --> 0:08:59.640 at a time where we see around the world, especially 0:08:59.640 --> 0:09:02.280 in the West world, there are these political figures, and 0:09:02.320 --> 0:09:05.240 I'm talking about Trump for instance, who are able to 0:09:05.360 --> 0:09:11.320 get to these top positions by not having a moral compass. 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:15.000 These very extreme divisive views, whether it's homophobic, whether it's 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:20.320 racially motivated, those ideologies trickle down and I see it 0:09:20.720 --> 0:09:25.280 currently happening with the Peter Dutton election. Well, let's elect 0:09:25.280 --> 0:09:28.360 his election campaign. I get Australia back on track. I 0:09:28.480 --> 0:09:32.360 just think that that is directly taking the Donald Trump 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:36.120 approach and being divisive and one of the main things 0:09:36.120 --> 0:09:39.120 that he's pushing for, which is just so ridiculous. And 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:41.760 this is why I'm bringing it up around jan twenty six, 0:09:41.880 --> 0:09:45.280 is because he is saying that if he was to 0:09:45.320 --> 0:09:48.480 be put into leadership and he was to become the 0:09:48.520 --> 0:09:52.640 Prime minister, that he would not allow the Aboriginal flag 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:55.480 to be flown on the hubor bridge or at national 0:09:55.480 --> 0:09:59.240 press conferences. He's saying that having three flags is a 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:03.880 divisive for our country. Yet all I'm hearing from him 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:07.959 is divisive language. He's saying that if he becomes Prime 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:13.320 Minister that he will take away funding, crucial funding, and 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:17.480 do an audit on Indigenous programs. Another thing is the 0:10:17.480 --> 0:10:21.200 cash list debit card. What' that's saying to me? Going back, 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:27.120 he is literally picking out parts of the White Australia policy. Yeah, 0:10:27.280 --> 0:10:30.240 he is putting them back into action. And for me, 0:10:30.440 --> 0:10:33.400 I really believe that if he is to get into power, 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:36.040 which I have no doubt that it's a possibility, that 0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:37.760 it's going to be a really scary time, not just 0:10:37.800 --> 0:10:41.720 for our community, but for the marginalized communities around our country. 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:46.040 One of the other things that I wanted to mention 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:50.040 around jan twenty six, what is the issue with changing 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:54.400 the date for the wider community? What is their take 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:57.280 on it? Like, I want to understand why is it 0:10:57.320 --> 0:10:59.720 so important for them not to change the date, Because 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:01.840 what we can tell you is why it is important 0:11:01.880 --> 0:11:02.959 for us to change the day. 0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:06.880 I want to know too, I know why it's so 0:11:06.960 --> 0:11:10.240 important to you to have that that day? 0:11:10.600 --> 0:11:11.800 Is it the public holiday? 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:14.720 Talking about the national identity and wanting to celebrate that. 0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:17.000 You can do that on any day and if you 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:19.200 want to cling to what you see is Australian culture 0:11:19.200 --> 0:11:21.360 and celebrate that, it might be the fact that you're 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:24.800 you know, immigrant family and you're celebrating the opportunity that 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:27.240 you've had maybe to create a better life for you 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:29.400 and your family. Or you might be some you know, 0:11:29.480 --> 0:11:32.080 white Aussie who really loves the beach and the barbecue 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:33.880 and the thongs culture and the VB and that's what 0:11:33.920 --> 0:11:36.200 you think is Australia, and that's what you want to celebrate, 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:40.040 But don't do it on the day that it. 0:11:39.640 --> 0:11:41.800 Really was the start of. 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:44.760 The start of the end for our community. And I 0:11:44.880 --> 0:11:48.120 really believe that Jan twenty six needs to be a 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:51.040 public holiday. There needs to be recognition there, There needs 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:54.079 to be respect on that day given to our community. 0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:57.640 But you can't then dance on the graves of the 0:11:57.679 --> 0:11:59.880 people that we lost on that day. For me, that 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:05.600 is so outrageous. Even the concept of celebrating on g 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:09.160 twenty six, it's like you're celebrating the start of a genocide. 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:13.360 You're celebrating the start of a colonial regime, which for me, 0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:17.160 the Australian flag triggers I think about the Union Jack 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:20.640 on the Australian flag right, and for me it's really 0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:24.439 hard to be connected to that flag whenever I see 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:28.800 it flying. And it's not because I am so connected 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:30.880 to the Aboriginal flag that I don't see myself in 0:12:30.920 --> 0:12:33.800 the Australian flag. It's the fact that the Union Jack 0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:37.920 for me, represents the start of colonization in this country 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:40.480 and how brutal that was for my community. How can 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:46.120 I stand up and be proud of that. I think 0:12:46.160 --> 0:12:50.800 that symbolism is super important when it comes to what 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:52.920 our values are and moles are as a country. 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:56.720 Beyond symbolism it is, I think there's so much more 0:12:57.520 --> 0:13:03.400 that people will not have understand unless they pick up 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:09.079 a fucking First nation's book or someone story or read something, 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:12.360 or talk to an Aboriginal or to our Australia under 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:15.920 person and have a yarn with them. But it shouldn't 0:13:15.920 --> 0:13:18.600 be always up to us as well, like this should 0:13:18.679 --> 0:13:24.520 be a national incentive too, like to support our First 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:30.120 Nations people, to encourage to be this nation to be 0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:35.360 built on unity and mutual respect and truth telling, which 0:13:35.440 --> 0:13:38.520 I always mentioned before. I think once we acknowledge the 0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:43.040 truth telling, I think hopefully in time. I don't know 0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:46.160 how much more years We can keep having this conversation 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:49.600 until something changes. But we need to keep pushing the fact. 0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:53.080 We need to acknowledge our history and it's a black history. 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:58.240 It's First Nation's history. Sovereignty was never seated. We need 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:02.600 to understand what that means. We need our Australian audience. 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:07.320 I put quotation Australian because I genuinely don't love the 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:11.160 fact that on my passport I'll have Australian. I'm like, 0:14:11.280 --> 0:14:13.480 I cannot identify with that. 0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:13.760 In a way. 0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:15.920 In a way I understand, I can understand that, I 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:18.120 can triggering. 0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:20.720 Like I just want to put I'm Nunga, like, yeah, 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:24.000 that's where I'm from. That's the specific place where I'm from. 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:26.960 The first the lands that I was built and born on, 0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:29.280 built as if I was a building, you know what. 0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:33.000 I think things would change, right. I believe if the 0:14:33.200 --> 0:14:38.160 country was unified and there was an understanding and respect 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:43.800 collectively for our First Nations people, for our culture, for 0:14:43.880 --> 0:14:47.680 what was he before colonization, I believe as First Nations people, 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:51.800 we would then feel more connected to the idea of 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:52.680 being Australian. 0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:55.520 I agree, yes, can that be great? 0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:58.800 Yeah? Yeah, But I feel like there's a long way 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:02.680 to go there, and I'm I'm not sure if you know, 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:06.840 I don't know what There's many different, obviously opinions from 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:10.080 our community. But I so agree with you with the 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:13.960 fact that it can be really hard to understand or 0:15:14.000 --> 0:15:20.520 to feel a sense of patriotism for Australia. I feel 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:23.960 it's difficult sometimes to connect with the Australian flag. 0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:29.160 We have so much potential as a nation, and I 0:15:29.200 --> 0:15:32.040 think one of my frustrations, and I think that's why 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:36.560 I asked you, is it scary, because I'm so scared 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:40.240 of the people that are being selected as leaders because 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:42.680 they don't, like you said, they don't have that moral 0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:47.120 compass and they're allowing for these extreme, extremist sort of 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:53.800 behaviors that aren't quite They're impactful, but not positively, you know. 0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:59.480 And I'm concerned because when I studied leadership in high 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:02.360 school and throughout my life, I do, you know, little 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:05.920 leadership things for my youth work and social work in general. 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:09.680 One of the things that they, you know, do as 0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:14.440 a leadership course is you have to discover and understand 0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:17.800 your values to know what you're working towards. So what 0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:21.720 are these people putting on their fucking white boat, Like 0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:32.000 what are their values like disrespect and homophobia and sexism? 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:34.920 That's your values. That that's what concerns me. And these 0:16:34.920 --> 0:16:37.960 are the people that we're voting in. And that makes 0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:40.120 me think, Okay, if these people are voted in on 0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:44.600 that scenario and who the people are ticking that box 0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:47.840 for that person to be in, are they also having 0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:48.880 those same values? 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:50.440 And it's a ripple effect down. 0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:53.880 I get that, and you definitely articulated that so well. 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:57.520 But that is just so concerning that people live their 0:16:57.560 --> 0:16:58.880 life with that much hate. 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:01.280 Yeah. Well, the thing for me, what I'll say to 0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:04.320 you is that how I view it is white supremacy. 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:09.080 Yes, it is about how all encompassing of what that is. 0:17:09.280 --> 0:17:11.880 So when I think about the leaders who are currently 0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:14.960 valuing for that top position, right, I don't see a 0:17:14.960 --> 0:17:17.800 lot of empathy in their souls. I don't see a 0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:20.000 lot of empathy in the way that they're talking to 0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:22.879 the Australian people. But all they're talking about is not 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:26.760 being divisive. Yet the language that you use is super divisive. 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:31.120 The language that you use is racially motivated at discriminating 0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:33.919 towards First Nations people, especially when it comes to government 0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:37.040 benefits and when it comes to government funding. So you're 0:17:37.040 --> 0:17:39.000 telling me that you don't want to be divisive, But 0:17:39.040 --> 0:17:41.080 the first thing that is on your agenda when you're 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:43.919 going to be stepping into power is coming for the 0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:47.679 First Nations community, which is defunding programs that are crucial 0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:50.919 in communities that are going to keep young First Nations 0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:53.760 men from committing suicide and going to jail. You're going 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:57.760 to take any social benefits from the hands of First 0:17:57.840 --> 0:17:59.760 Nations people and give them a debit card, so there 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:03.399 is no self determination. So those things say to me 0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:07.240 that there is a clear, clear ideology that you don't 0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:09.760 want First Nations people to succeed. You don't want First 0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:12.840 Nations people to thrive. What you want is you get 0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:15.680 to control the community. You get to be the person 0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:19.240 that puts the perimeters around how much they can succeed, 0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:22.359 how much they can have self determination. And for me, 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:26.800 that is hugely, hugely problematic and scary, and it reminds 0:18:26.840 --> 0:18:31.800 me of person who is less empathetic and more selfish, 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:36.479 and it reminds me that it only takes for someone 0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:38.879 like that to get into power for the country and 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:42.000 the culture of the country and the unnational identity to 0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:46.720 be changed. And I think this has come from the voice. 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:50.680 I think that the KNOW for our community has been 0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:54.560 super detrimental. I believe that us getting a KNOW in 0:18:54.600 --> 0:18:57.639 the referendum has given a message to the wider community 0:18:58.040 --> 0:19:01.880 to not be interested, to not respect, to not have 0:19:02.040 --> 0:19:05.560 any empathy, and to disregard what is best for First 0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:08.679 Nations people, because it's saying that they don't want us 0:19:08.720 --> 0:19:10.280 to have a voice, they don't want us to have 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:14.600 self determination, They legit want to control us like they 0:19:14.600 --> 0:19:18.520 did at the start of this country. So I feel 0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:23.000 like there is a real scary tone to politics right now, 0:19:23.000 --> 0:19:24.920 and I feel like we could be gone backwards. 0:19:25.440 --> 0:19:28.800 Oh that actually made me really upset. 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:30.679 Yeah. 0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:34.280 I was just listening to you talk and I was 0:19:34.359 --> 0:19:37.200 just really feeling like the weight of all your words 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:43.040 because I'm deeply and so proud of my culture, and 0:19:43.080 --> 0:19:49.200 I think I've continuously advocated and tried to recreate the 0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:55.400 narrative and constantly fight and push and it's so exhausting. 0:19:55.640 --> 0:19:56.400 I'm tired. 0:19:56.600 --> 0:19:58.480 I'm tired of having this conversation. 0:19:59.040 --> 0:19:59.760 Yeah, but it. 0:19:59.880 --> 0:20:02.919 Just this goes to show like a lot of people 0:20:02.960 --> 0:20:05.240 would just be thinking, oh, well, this is just a day, 0:20:05.400 --> 0:20:09.960 but this conversation has just represented how much more complexity 0:20:09.960 --> 0:20:13.120 in nuance there is to this conversation and this day. 0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:15.880 And you know how personal this goes. When we talk 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:19.120 about the No on the Voice referendum. You ask First 0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:22.040 Nations people in our industry how many calls they got 0:20:22.080 --> 0:20:25.080 after the Voice was voted for no, how many calls 0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:27.120 they got before, and how many calls they got after 0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:31.040 for work. If there isn't a subconscious trickle down effect 0:20:31.080 --> 0:20:33.520 that has happened, not just in our industry but across 0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:36.840 the board. Yeah, it has been so obvious to us 0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:40.200 people before we got that no in the referendum, when 0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:43.119 the country voted no, there was work out there for 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:47.879 First Nations people to share our experiences, to voice our opinions. 0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:51.720 After the no, there have been so many less opportunities 0:20:51.840 --> 0:20:54.440 and the only people who can will be affected by 0:20:54.480 --> 0:20:55.920 that are us and mob. 0:20:56.640 --> 0:21:00.320 Yeah we yeah, we feel the way that. 0:21:00.680 --> 0:21:03.639 Yeah, I agree. I mean I haven't had as many 0:21:05.280 --> 0:21:08.960 brand stuff reaching out to me in especially a lot 0:21:08.960 --> 0:21:11.320 of queer stuff as well, because I'm not representing a 0:21:11.400 --> 0:21:14.119 queer relationship at the moment. But I think it's the 0:21:14.160 --> 0:21:18.160 opportunities that you know, they have been taken away because 0:21:18.560 --> 0:21:22.919 of a national vote, and it's again, it's the hands 0:21:23.119 --> 0:21:26.760 of other people. It's not my own community. It's like, 0:21:27.840 --> 0:21:30.760 I don't know, Maddie, I'm just a little bit over it. 0:21:31.320 --> 0:21:35.760 I understand, I get it. I think what I want 0:21:35.800 --> 0:21:37.639 to see moving forward, and let's wrap it up with 0:21:37.760 --> 0:21:40.800 maybe our dreams and hopes, say let's try and get there. 0:21:41.040 --> 0:21:44.480 What I want to see moving forward is that First 0:21:44.600 --> 0:21:50.040 Nations people aren't tokenized, that we are taken seriously and 0:21:50.160 --> 0:21:52.880 that we are respected, and that the urge of our 0:21:52.880 --> 0:21:55.840 community to change the date isn't something that is trivial. 0:21:57.000 --> 0:22:00.840 It is deeply personal and it is a deep slap 0:22:00.840 --> 0:22:03.200 in the face and disrespect to our community for people 0:22:03.240 --> 0:22:07.000 to be celebrating on jan twenty six. I hope that 0:22:07.080 --> 0:22:10.360 moving forward, as a country, we come together, we can 0:22:10.640 --> 0:22:14.320 be on the path to understanding our national identity collectively 0:22:14.600 --> 0:22:18.240 and one day, one day we can be proud to 0:22:18.280 --> 0:22:24.840 be Australian as well as Camilleroy First Nations. That's the dream. 0:22:25.119 --> 0:22:28.080 I think we need to create more beautiful spaces that 0:22:28.160 --> 0:22:34.639 are respectful, that are inclusive through all types of identity, 0:22:35.000 --> 0:22:38.119 history and reconciliation. I think we need to look beyond 0:22:38.280 --> 0:22:40.040 reconciliation being symbolic. 0:22:40.760 --> 0:22:42.080 I think it needs to be. 0:22:42.000 --> 0:22:42.800 Action, action. 0:22:44.240 --> 0:22:48.360 I think ultimately, I think one thing that I would 0:22:48.480 --> 0:22:54.439 love is to see more empathy in this nation is 0:22:54.520 --> 0:22:58.840 to have that as our Australian identity and have that 0:22:58.920 --> 0:23:03.320 as our Australian values. That that is something that unites us, 0:23:03.560 --> 0:23:06.640 is our empathy for other people. We know we could 0:23:06.640 --> 0:23:09.360