Speaker 1: Before we get started, we'd like to acknowledge the custodians
Speaker 1: of the land on which we record, and today for
Speaker 1: me that's the Gatigel people of the eur nation.
Speaker 2: And for me Zoraundry people of the Cooler nation.
Speaker 1: Hi, Hi, how are you good?
Speaker 2: How are you?
Speaker 1: Oh? Look, I'm doing all right. I feel like it's
Speaker 1: at that time of the year again where my ears
Speaker 1: start to perk up and I start to hear a
Speaker 1: lot of conversations about our community. It's a controversial time,
Speaker 1: I must say, for our country. But I also think
Speaker 1: that we have mixed feelings about this date. And I
Speaker 1: also think that you know, as you've mentioned earlier, that
Speaker 1: you're a bit exhausted by this conversation a little bit.
Speaker 3: I think I'm fatigued from many things, but I think
Speaker 3: it feels a little bit different to me, like normally
Speaker 3: this time comes around and I am exhausted about having
Speaker 3: the same conversation. Yeah, but I think I'm just now
Speaker 3: getting at my teather where it's just I feel like
Speaker 3: I'm a little hamster on a wheel or it's Groundhog
Speaker 3: Day and I'm repeating the same shit the.
Speaker 2: Same day every year.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm seeing no change.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I feel you and I hear you,
Speaker 1: and this episode for our listeners is a bonus episode
Speaker 1: to get our take on January twenty sixth or whatever
Speaker 1: you call that day. You might call it Australia Day,
Speaker 1: Survival Day, Invasion Day, but it is a date that
Speaker 1: we believe and we both have a similar opinion to
Speaker 1: each other when it comes to what our stance is,
Speaker 1: and it's that the date should change. This conversation happens
Speaker 1: every year and our community is brought into the fold
Speaker 1: of this yarn time and time again, but yet there
Speaker 1: hasn't been much change. So I think that this bonus
Speaker 1: episode is just getting our take on how we feel
Speaker 1: about the day and why we believe that it's important
Speaker 1: to change the date.
Speaker 3: This holiday is a new holiday typically, like this day
Speaker 3: is a new day. I think in the eyes of history,
Speaker 3: it's only been around since ninety four. I'm a ninety
Speaker 3: five baby, so it's been around for thirty one years. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so it's really new into the establishment of public holidays
Speaker 3: and days to celebrate. But since then, I think our
Speaker 3: family and community have been protesting that this day that
Speaker 3: they established wasn't right from the get go, and they've
Speaker 3: protested many many many years to have the date changed
Speaker 3: or take pretty much abolished.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's definitely been a shifting conversation over the years.
Speaker 1: I would say, like, yeah, there was you know, the
Speaker 1: change the date debate, and then there was some parts
Speaker 1: of our community and people outside of our community that
Speaker 1: wanted to abolish the date.
Speaker 3: Do you either give context to both of those for
Speaker 3: our new listeners or people who don't know the difference
Speaker 3: between them both?
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, So the argument for changing the date is
Speaker 1: that this is should be seen as a day of mourning. This,
Speaker 1: you know, was the date that a Brooke Bony once
Speaker 1: said it beautifully on the Today Show that it was
Speaker 1: the start or the end for our people. And I
Speaker 1: believe that that perfectly sums up why this date is
Speaker 1: important to be a day of mourning. It is a
Speaker 1: day that really symbolizes the hostility and the brutal invasion
Speaker 1: and colonial regime that has brought so much trauma and
Speaker 1: so much grief to our community that we continuously live
Speaker 1: with through intergenerational trauma. And I believe that, you know,
Speaker 1: changing the date is a super important conversation that our
Speaker 1: community should be having and the understanding why we should
Speaker 1: be changing the date. My opinion actually has evolved over
Speaker 1: the years as I've you know, gotten older and become
Speaker 1: more aware of the context to this date for our community,
Speaker 1: but also wider Australia. The reason I believe that we
Speaker 1: should change the day is because deep in my heart,
Speaker 1: I love our country. I believe that this country represents
Speaker 1: so much for so many people. I believe that we
Speaker 1: inherently are good people, and I think that this country
Speaker 1: is home to many more people and diverse communities than
Speaker 1: just our community, the first nation's community, and I think
Speaker 1: we need to respect that because it isn't what it
Speaker 1: once was, but it is what it is now, and
Speaker 1: I believe that we should be respecting the diversity and
Speaker 1: the multicultural society that we have. But that also has
Speaker 1: to coincide with respect for our people and the country
Speaker 1: that was here pre colonization, and that is super important
Speaker 1: to me for the wider community to understand that this
Speaker 1: country isn't a young country when it comes to the
Speaker 1: land and the culture. It's a very old, ancient country
Speaker 1: and historically the education system has only ever referenced the
Speaker 1: last two hundred and fifty years. And I believe that
Speaker 1: this country has a much longer history book than two
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty years. There's evidence that we're the oldest
Speaker 1: living civilization on Earth sixty plus thousand years. Now. If
Speaker 1: that isn't something to celebrate as a nation and something
Speaker 1: to respect and even more in terms of the loss
Speaker 1: of what that is, then I feel like we as
Speaker 1: a collective don't really understand what we have in our hands.
Speaker 1: And for me, changing the date is about recognizing that
Speaker 1: history is about respecting what that is and what that was,
Speaker 1: and how much that our country depends on that connection
Speaker 1: to culture and land, even when a lot of people
Speaker 1: don't recognize that. So changing the date means that there
Speaker 1: it can be another day in our country's calendar where
Speaker 1: we come together and we celebrate what this country is
Speaker 1: for so many different people. That doesn't mean that it's
Speaker 1: mutually exclusive to the trauma and the impact or colonization
Speaker 1: that has happened for our community. Some people in our
Speaker 1: community but also outside of our community, think that these
Speaker 1: things are mutually exclusive, that you can't celebrate Australia or
Speaker 1: Australia Day on a different date. I'm saying because of
Speaker 1: the trauma that has impacted our community and what colonization
Speaker 1: has done to our culture and community. I think these
Speaker 1: things coexist. Now. You know, we have on one hand,
Speaker 1: a beautiful nation with so much opportunity. It offers so
Speaker 1: much to so many different communities as well, But it
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that then we forget what that has also
Speaker 1: done to our community and the brutal trauma that has
Speaker 1: been passed down due to colonization. So I think that
Speaker 1: it's about having an approach where we respect all people
Speaker 1: and honor our first nation's culture.
Speaker 3: Yes, I think that was the key word that I
Speaker 3: was kind of thinking of when you said honor. I
Speaker 3: think respect comes to mind, and I think they go
Speaker 3: hand in hand. I think the difficult thing for me
Speaker 3: and frustrating thing as well, is that a lot of
Speaker 3: people will argue, and I'm talking mostly like non Indigenous
Speaker 3: people will say, well, I don't understand the connection to land,
Speaker 3: or I don't have the connection to land. You don't
Speaker 3: necessarily have to have any type of connection to land
Speaker 3: to acknowledge other people's connection to land. And I think
Speaker 3: that's like the ignorance that I'm experiencing is that, oh,
Speaker 3: it happened so long ago.
Speaker 2: No it didn't.
Speaker 3: This is a new country in so many different ways,
Speaker 3: and it's built off genocide, like and yet we don't
Speaker 3: have a national day where we can mourn. It's yet, Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's it's a day of celebration where we celebrate what.
Speaker 3: You know. We spoke to Usher the other day and
Speaker 3: I said, I don't really feel that we have an
Speaker 3: Australian culture, and he argued that we do, and I
Speaker 3: had to I kind of disagree, Like I feel like
Speaker 3: we don't really have like a national identity because we're
Speaker 3: not really full forward. We're not forefront of telling the truth.
Speaker 3: Like as a nation, we can't even tell the truth
Speaker 3: of our history. So how do we have a national
Speaker 3: identity if we can't tell the truth. So I have
Speaker 3: a very difficult and frustrating experience trying to understand these
Speaker 3: people that argue, oh, well, I don't have a connection
Speaker 3: to land, therefore I don't need to acknowledge it.
Speaker 2: And it's like it's just so disrespectful.
Speaker 3: And I think this is one thing that I would
Speaker 3: love to encourage, But it's like, how do you convert
Speaker 3: the eyes that are people's eyes aren't open, you know
Speaker 3: what I mean?
Speaker 1: Well, I believe that we're in a time right now
Speaker 1: where the political climate is allowing people to really show
Speaker 1: these extreme views and divisive views.
Speaker 2: Do you think that's really scary.
Speaker 1: I think it's scary, But I also think it comes
Speaker 1: at a time where we see around the world, especially
Speaker 1: in the West world, there are these political figures, and
Speaker 1: I'm talking about Trump for instance, who are able to
Speaker 1: get to these top positions by not having a moral compass.
Speaker 1: These very extreme divisive views, whether it's homophobic, whether it's
Speaker 1: racially motivated, those ideologies trickle down and I see it
Speaker 1: currently happening with the Peter Dutton election. Well, let's elect
Speaker 1: his election campaign. I get Australia back on track. I
Speaker 1: just think that that is directly taking the Donald Trump
Speaker 1: approach and being divisive and one of the main things
Speaker 1: that he's pushing for, which is just so ridiculous. And
Speaker 1: this is why I'm bringing it up around jan twenty six,
Speaker 1: is because he is saying that if he was to
Speaker 1: be put into leadership and he was to become the
Speaker 1: Prime minister, that he would not allow the Aboriginal flag
Speaker 1: to be flown on the hubor bridge or at national
Speaker 1: press conferences. He's saying that having three flags is a
Speaker 1: divisive for our country. Yet all I'm hearing from him
Speaker 1: is divisive language. He's saying that if he becomes Prime
Speaker 1: Minister that he will take away funding, crucial funding, and
Speaker 1: do an audit on Indigenous programs. Another thing is the
Speaker 1: cash list debit card. What' that's saying to me? Going back,
Speaker 1: he is literally picking out parts of the White Australia policy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he is putting them back into action. And for me,
Speaker 1: I really believe that if he is to get into power,
Speaker 1: which I have no doubt that it's a possibility, that
Speaker 1: it's going to be a really scary time, not just
Speaker 1: for our community, but for the marginalized communities around our country.
Speaker 1: One of the other things that I wanted to mention
Speaker 1: around jan twenty six, what is the issue with changing
Speaker 1: the date for the wider community? What is their take
Speaker 1: on it? Like, I want to understand why is it
Speaker 1: so important for them not to change the date, Because
Speaker 1: what we can tell you is why it is important
Speaker 1: for us to change the day.
Speaker 3: I want to know too, I know why it's so
Speaker 3: important to you to have that that day?
Speaker 2: Is it the public holiday?
Speaker 1: Talking about the national identity and wanting to celebrate that.
Speaker 1: You can do that on any day and if you
Speaker 1: want to cling to what you see is Australian culture
Speaker 1: and celebrate that, it might be the fact that you're
Speaker 1: you know, immigrant family and you're celebrating the opportunity that
Speaker 1: you've had maybe to create a better life for you
Speaker 1: and your family. Or you might be some you know,
Speaker 1: white Aussie who really loves the beach and the barbecue
Speaker 1: and the thongs culture and the VB and that's what
Speaker 1: you think is Australia, and that's what you want to celebrate,
Speaker 1: But don't do it on the day that it.
Speaker 2: Really was the start of.
Speaker 1: The start of the end for our community. And I
Speaker 1: really believe that Jan twenty six needs to be a
Speaker 1: public holiday. There needs to be recognition there, There needs
Speaker 1: to be respect on that day given to our community.
Speaker 1: But you can't then dance on the graves of the
Speaker 1: people that we lost on that day. For me, that
Speaker 1: is so outrageous. Even the concept of celebrating on g
Speaker 1: twenty six, it's like you're celebrating the start of a genocide.
Speaker 1: You're celebrating the start of a colonial regime, which for me,
Speaker 1: the Australian flag triggers I think about the Union Jack
Speaker 1: on the Australian flag right, and for me it's really
Speaker 1: hard to be connected to that flag whenever I see
Speaker 1: it flying. And it's not because I am so connected
Speaker 1: to the Aboriginal flag that I don't see myself in
Speaker 1: the Australian flag. It's the fact that the Union Jack
Speaker 1: for me, represents the start of colonization in this country
Speaker 1: and how brutal that was for my community. How can
Speaker 1: I stand up and be proud of that. I think
Speaker 1: that symbolism is super important when it comes to what
Speaker 1: our values are and moles are as a country.
Speaker 3: Beyond symbolism it is, I think there's so much more
Speaker 3: that people will not have understand unless they pick up
Speaker 3: a fucking First nation's book or someone story or read something,
Speaker 3: or talk to an Aboriginal or to our Australia under
Speaker 3: person and have a yarn with them. But it shouldn't
Speaker 3: be always up to us as well, like this should
Speaker 3: be a national incentive too, like to support our First
Speaker 3: Nations people, to encourage to be this nation to be
Speaker 3: built on unity and mutual respect and truth telling, which
Speaker 3: I always mentioned before. I think once we acknowledge the
Speaker 3: truth telling, I think hopefully in time. I don't know
Speaker 3: how much more years We can keep having this conversation
Speaker 3: until something changes. But we need to keep pushing the fact.
Speaker 3: We need to acknowledge our history and it's a black history.
Speaker 3: It's First Nation's history. Sovereignty was never seated. We need
Speaker 3: to understand what that means. We need our Australian audience.
Speaker 3: I put quotation Australian because I genuinely don't love the
Speaker 3: fact that on my passport I'll have Australian. I'm like,
Speaker 3: I cannot identify with that.
Speaker 2: In a way.
Speaker 1: In a way I understand, I can understand that, I
Speaker 1: can triggering.
Speaker 3: Like I just want to put I'm Nunga, like, yeah,
Speaker 3: that's where I'm from. That's the specific place where I'm from.
Speaker 3: The first the lands that I was built and born on,
Speaker 3: built as if I was a building, you know what.
Speaker 1: I think things would change, right. I believe if the
Speaker 1: country was unified and there was an understanding and respect
Speaker 1: collectively for our First Nations people, for our culture, for
Speaker 1: what was he before colonization, I believe as First Nations people,
Speaker 1: we would then feel more connected to the idea of
Speaker 1: being Australian.
Speaker 2: I agree, yes, can that be great?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, But I feel like there's a long way
Speaker 1: to go there, and I'm I'm not sure if you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know what There's many different, obviously opinions from
Speaker 1: our community. But I so agree with you with the
Speaker 1: fact that it can be really hard to understand or
Speaker 1: to feel a sense of patriotism for Australia. I feel
Speaker 1: it's difficult sometimes to connect with the Australian flag.
Speaker 3: We have so much potential as a nation, and I
Speaker 3: think one of my frustrations, and I think that's why
Speaker 3: I asked you, is it scary, because I'm so scared
Speaker 3: of the people that are being selected as leaders because
Speaker 3: they don't, like you said, they don't have that moral
Speaker 3: compass and they're allowing for these extreme, extremist sort of
Speaker 3: behaviors that aren't quite They're impactful, but not positively, you know.
Speaker 3: And I'm concerned because when I studied leadership in high
Speaker 3: school and throughout my life, I do, you know, little
Speaker 3: leadership things for my youth work and social work in general.
Speaker 3: One of the things that they, you know, do as
Speaker 3: a leadership course is you have to discover and understand
Speaker 3: your values to know what you're working towards. So what
Speaker 3: are these people putting on their fucking white boat, Like
Speaker 3: what are their values like disrespect and homophobia and sexism?
Speaker 3: That's your values. That that's what concerns me. And these
Speaker 3: are the people that we're voting in. And that makes
Speaker 3: me think, Okay, if these people are voted in on
Speaker 3: that scenario and who the people are ticking that box
Speaker 3: for that person to be in, are they also having
Speaker 3: those same values?
Speaker 2: And it's a ripple effect down.
Speaker 3: I get that, and you definitely articulated that so well.
Speaker 3: But that is just so concerning that people live their
Speaker 3: life with that much hate.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, the thing for me, what I'll say to
Speaker 1: you is that how I view it is white supremacy.
Speaker 2: Yes, it is about how all encompassing of what that is.
Speaker 1: So when I think about the leaders who are currently
Speaker 1: valuing for that top position, right, I don't see a
Speaker 1: lot of empathy in their souls. I don't see a
Speaker 1: lot of empathy in the way that they're talking to
Speaker 1: the Australian people. But all they're talking about is not
Speaker 1: being divisive. Yet the language that you use is super divisive.
Speaker 1: The language that you use is racially motivated at discriminating
Speaker 1: towards First Nations people, especially when it comes to government
Speaker 1: benefits and when it comes to government funding. So you're
Speaker 1: telling me that you don't want to be divisive, But
Speaker 1: the first thing that is on your agenda when you're
Speaker 1: going to be stepping into power is coming for the
Speaker 1: First Nations community, which is defunding programs that are crucial
Speaker 1: in communities that are going to keep young First Nations
Speaker 1: men from committing suicide and going to jail. You're going
Speaker 1: to take any social benefits from the hands of First
Speaker 1: Nations people and give them a debit card, so there
Speaker 1: is no self determination. So those things say to me
Speaker 1: that there is a clear, clear ideology that you don't
Speaker 1: want First Nations people to succeed. You don't want First
Speaker 1: Nations people to thrive. What you want is you get
Speaker 1: to control the community. You get to be the person
Speaker 1: that puts the perimeters around how much they can succeed,
Speaker 1: how much they can have self determination. And for me,
Speaker 1: that is hugely, hugely problematic and scary, and it reminds
Speaker 1: me of person who is less empathetic and more selfish,
Speaker 1: and it reminds me that it only takes for someone
Speaker 1: like that to get into power for the country and
Speaker 1: the culture of the country and the unnational identity to
Speaker 1: be changed. And I think this has come from the voice.
Speaker 1: I think that the KNOW for our community has been
Speaker 1: super detrimental. I believe that us getting a KNOW in
Speaker 1: the referendum has given a message to the wider community
Speaker 1: to not be interested, to not respect, to not have
Speaker 1: any empathy, and to disregard what is best for First
Speaker 1: Nations people, because it's saying that they don't want us
Speaker 1: to have a voice, they don't want us to have
Speaker 1: self determination, They legit want to control us like they
Speaker 1: did at the start of this country. So I feel
Speaker 1: like there is a real scary tone to politics right now,
Speaker 1: and I feel like we could be gone backwards.
Speaker 3: Oh that actually made me really upset.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I was just listening to you talk and I was
Speaker 3: just really feeling like the weight of all your words
Speaker 3: because I'm deeply and so proud of my culture, and
Speaker 3: I think I've continuously advocated and tried to recreate the
Speaker 3: narrative and constantly fight and push and it's so exhausting.
Speaker 2: I'm tired.
Speaker 3: I'm tired of having this conversation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it.
Speaker 3: Just this goes to show like a lot of people
Speaker 3: would just be thinking, oh, well, this is just a day,
Speaker 3: but this conversation has just represented how much more complexity
Speaker 3: in nuance there is to this conversation and this day.
Speaker 1: And you know how personal this goes. When we talk
Speaker 1: about the No on the Voice referendum. You ask First
Speaker 1: Nations people in our industry how many calls they got
Speaker 1: after the Voice was voted for no, how many calls
Speaker 1: they got before, and how many calls they got after
Speaker 1: for work. If there isn't a subconscious trickle down effect
Speaker 1: that has happened, not just in our industry but across
Speaker 1: the board. Yeah, it has been so obvious to us
Speaker 1: people before we got that no in the referendum, when
Speaker 1: the country voted no, there was work out there for
Speaker 1: First Nations people to share our experiences, to voice our opinions.
Speaker 1: After the no, there have been so many less opportunities
Speaker 1: and the only people who can will be affected by
Speaker 1: that are us and mob.
Speaker 2: Yeah we yeah, we feel the way that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree. I mean I haven't had as many
Speaker 3: brand stuff reaching out to me in especially a lot
Speaker 3: of queer stuff as well, because I'm not representing a
Speaker 3: queer relationship at the moment. But I think it's the
Speaker 3: opportunities that you know, they have been taken away because
Speaker 3: of a national vote, and it's again, it's the hands
Speaker 3: of other people. It's not my own community. It's like,
Speaker 3: I don't know, Maddie, I'm just a little bit over it.
Speaker 1: I understand, I get it. I think what I want
Speaker 1: to see moving forward, and let's wrap it up with
Speaker 1: maybe our dreams and hopes, say let's try and get there.
Speaker 1: What I want to see moving forward is that First
Speaker 1: Nations people aren't tokenized, that we are taken seriously and
Speaker 1: that we are respected, and that the urge of our
Speaker 1: community to change the date isn't something that is trivial.
Speaker 1: It is deeply personal and it is a deep slap
Speaker 1: in the face and disrespect to our community for people
Speaker 1: to be celebrating on jan twenty six. I hope that
Speaker 1: moving forward, as a country, we come together, we can
Speaker 1: be on the path to understanding our national identity collectively
Speaker 1: and one day, one day we can be proud to
Speaker 1: be Australian as well as Camilleroy First Nations. That's the dream.
Speaker 3: I think we need to create more beautiful spaces that
Speaker 3: are respectful, that are inclusive through all types of identity,
Speaker 3: history and reconciliation. I think we need to look beyond
Speaker 3: reconciliation being symbolic.
Speaker 2: I think it needs to be.
Speaker 1: Action, action.
Speaker 3: I think ultimately, I think one thing that I would
Speaker 3: love is to see more empathy in this nation is
Speaker 3: to have that as our Australian identity and have that
Speaker 3: as our Australian values. That that is something that unites us,
Speaker 3: is our empathy for other people. We know we could
Speaker 3: be a good country. We know that we have good
Speaker 3: people here too. You know, there are people that will
Speaker 3: that will walk down the street and smile and say
Speaker 3: how you're going, and you feel connected to them, even
Speaker 3: though they're a complete fucking stranger.
Speaker 1: In different race and from a different community.
Speaker 3: And I think if we had national values that we.
Speaker 2: Could all work towards and it was.
Speaker 3: A part of our culture and our identity, and we
Speaker 3: move towards that together, then I think, you know, I
Speaker 3: can only hope that the best will come and that
Speaker 3: we will all feel included, whether it is our obviously
Speaker 3: our first nation's community at the forefront, but I think
Speaker 3: our you know, minorities, and our queer people, our immigrants
Speaker 3: like I just that would be my hope. And I
Speaker 3: think the grassroots programs, the focus and intention in them
Speaker 3: are so important. They're the ones that do the most
Speaker 3: work and the most change and have the most impact
Speaker 3: I believe, on people directly and indirectly to families, communities,
Speaker 3: minorities like I think we need to understand that those
Speaker 3: grassroots programs and those focuses are so crucial to closing
Speaker 3: the gap.
Speaker 1: You know, I would say just touching on that, and
Speaker 1: I think it's probably a good place to wrap up.
Speaker 1: But when it comes to closing the gap, if you
Speaker 1: haven't had an experience as a first nation's person or
Speaker 1: lived as a first nation's person, you need to close
Speaker 1: your gap when it comes to what is good for
Speaker 1: our community.
Speaker 3: Honestly, closing this episode off, I would really love again
Speaker 3: to encourage individuals to reflect a lot on jan twenty six,
Speaker 3: and I think reflection is really important to self improvement
Speaker 3: and understanding and educating and again empathy. I would encourage
Speaker 3: people to attend the Invasion Day rallies that are all
Speaker 3: over the state, which we will obviously include in our
Speaker 3: source notes. We encourage you guys to go do your
Speaker 3: own cultural education and research. We have the internet, fucking
Speaker 3: ai it if you need. We know that we all
Speaker 3: have access to our phones. It is not that hard.
Speaker 3: And I'm very sick of hearing the ignorance. The ignorance
Speaker 3: is loud, it's very deafening, and I just want to
Speaker 3: encourage you all to do the work, whether you're an ally,
Speaker 3: whether you're or not, I really do encourage Obviously we'd
Speaker 3: love you to be an ally, but I also don't
Speaker 3: want to use that word too lightly because it is
Speaker 3: important that the people do say that they're an ally
Speaker 3: are doing the work.
Speaker 1: And I think the reason behind wanting that so much
Speaker 1: is that we can all feel like we are a
Speaker 1: part of this country, Australian. We can all one day
Speaker 1: say we are proud to be Australian. That's our two
Speaker 1: cents for jan twenty six. I mean, we're not going
Speaker 1: to talk about this again until you know, Bloody rolls
Speaker 1: around next year, how annoying. Let's hope it's changed by
Speaker 1: then and the date isn't remaining the same.
Speaker 3: We look forward to the next episode and honestly, go check.
Speaker 2: Out our source notes. Stay Deadly, Stay Deadly,