1 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:06,220 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. I'm Sean 2 00:00:06,300 --> 00:00:09,890 Sean Aylmer: Aylmer. It's been an extraordinary year for Crown Resorts. It 3 00:00:09,890 --> 00:00:13,110 Sean Aylmer: started with the company being deemed unsuitable to operate a 4 00:00:13,110 --> 00:00:16,950 Sean Aylmer: casino in Sydney. Since then, there's been the damning findings 5 00:00:16,950 --> 00:00:20,010 Sean Aylmer: of the Victorian Royal Commission, while another one is still 6 00:00:20,010 --> 00:00:24,709 Sean Aylmer: underway in Western Australia. There was a proposed, and abandoned, merger 7 00:00:24,710 --> 00:00:27,770 Sean Aylmer: with rival Star, and three takeover bids from private equity 8 00:00:27,770 --> 00:00:30,970 Sean Aylmer: giant Blackstone. But another reason Crown is never far from 9 00:00:30,970 --> 00:00:35,000 Sean Aylmer: the headlines is the involvement of billionaire James Packer. He's 10 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:38,330 Sean Aylmer: committed to selling down his 37% stake in Crown to 11 00:00:38,330 --> 00:00:42,110 Sean Aylmer: under 5% following the Victorian Royal Commission. So what happens 12 00:00:42,110 --> 00:00:45,430 Sean Aylmer: next for the company does hinge largely on the 54- year- 13 00:00:45,430 --> 00:00:48,410 Sean Aylmer: old. He's certainly a fascinating individual, and today I wanted 14 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:51,840 Sean Aylmer: to take a closer look at what drives him. Damon 15 00:00:51,850 --> 00:00:54,710 Sean Aylmer: Kitney is a business journalist, and the author of The Price of 16 00:00:54,710 --> 00:00:58,520 Sean Aylmer: Fortune, the biography of James Packer. Person who knows James 17 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:01,810 Sean Aylmer: Packer probably better than most. Damon, welcome to Fear and Greed. 18 00:01:02,070 --> 00:01:02,540 Damon Kitney: Thanks, Sean. 19 00:01:03,140 --> 00:01:05,929 Sean Aylmer: The myth of James Packer. What's he really like? 20 00:01:06,819 --> 00:01:09,120 Damon Kitney: It's a very difficult question to answer in a short 21 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:11,950 Damon Kitney: time, but I think one of the key things about 22 00:01:12,340 --> 00:01:17,580 Damon Kitney: Packer is he's a very misunderstood character. And I think if 23 00:01:17,580 --> 00:01:22,590 Damon Kitney: you look at the public discourse on him over his life, 24 00:01:22,709 --> 00:01:26,529 Damon Kitney: but particularly in recent years, he's probably come across as 25 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:32,369 Damon Kitney: a very ruthless businessman, potentially a bully at times, a 26 00:01:32,370 --> 00:01:35,479 Damon Kitney: person who knows how to use power to get his 27 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:39,260 Damon Kitney: own way. There's certainly those aspects to James Packer's character, 28 00:01:39,260 --> 00:01:42,340 Damon Kitney: which he would openly acknowledge, and as he really did 29 00:01:42,340 --> 00:01:45,190 Damon Kitney: acknowledge in that book. But deeper down, there's a much 30 00:01:45,190 --> 00:01:50,540 Damon Kitney: more complex individual. Sadly, a very troubled individual, the product 31 00:01:50,540 --> 00:01:53,770 Damon Kitney: of a number of things, but most notably his upbringing 32 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:57,540 Damon Kitney: in a very, very difficult situation with a very tough 33 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:02,370 Damon Kitney: father who he loved deeply and will not speak any 34 00:02:02,370 --> 00:02:06,450 Damon Kitney: ill will of, despite his passing many years ago now. 35 00:02:06,730 --> 00:02:09,970 Damon Kitney: But I think the real problem for James through his life, 36 00:02:09,970 --> 00:02:11,980 Damon Kitney: if I was to sum it up in a sentence 37 00:02:11,980 --> 00:02:15,620 Damon Kitney: is, he's trusted the wrong people. And that has brought 38 00:02:15,620 --> 00:02:18,880 Damon Kitney: him terrible things in so many different facets of his 39 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:23,440 Damon Kitney: life, whether it's business, his personal life, his friendships, and 40 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:25,880 Damon Kitney: I think he would acknowledge that that is probably one of 41 00:02:25,940 --> 00:02:28,919 Damon Kitney: his greatest flaws, is he falls head over heels for 42 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:33,840 Damon Kitney: people and genuinely trusts them when they, arguably, are not 43 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:36,410 Damon Kitney: deserving of that trust. And as a result, I think 44 00:02:36,690 --> 00:02:39,560 Damon Kitney: over many years, he's been surrounded by a group of 45 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:42,989 Damon Kitney: people who are not necessarily acting in his best interests. 46 00:02:42,990 --> 00:02:46,730 Damon Kitney: At the worst case, some of them been sycophants, essentially. 47 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:49,700 Damon Kitney: Others have been trying to do the right thing, but 48 00:02:49,700 --> 00:02:53,130 Damon Kitney: have also had some vested interests of their own. Very 49 00:02:53,130 --> 00:02:56,859 Damon Kitney: few have genuinely, I think, tried to help him and 50 00:02:56,860 --> 00:02:59,740 Damon Kitney: do the right thing by him, and he knows that, and it's 51 00:02:59,740 --> 00:03:03,230 Damon Kitney: been very difficult for him. I think going forward, he's 52 00:03:03,230 --> 00:03:06,020 Damon Kitney: going to find it very hard to trust many people because he 53 00:03:06,020 --> 00:03:08,500 Damon Kitney: has been burnt so badly, so many times. 54 00:03:08,850 --> 00:03:10,730 Sean Aylmer: It's really interesting when you read your book, there are 55 00:03:10,730 --> 00:03:14,680 Sean Aylmer: a couple of people who are incredibly successful themselves. I'm 56 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:19,080 Sean Aylmer: thinking of Kerry Stokes and Alan Jones, the broadcaster, who 57 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:21,370 Sean Aylmer: are very impressive, actually, when you read your book and 58 00:03:21,430 --> 00:03:23,330 Sean Aylmer: you hear what they have to say about James, they're very 59 00:03:23,330 --> 00:03:25,700 Sean Aylmer: honest compared to, perhaps, some of the others- 60 00:03:26,180 --> 00:03:26,181 Damon Kitney: True. 61 00:03:26,181 --> 00:03:28,680 Sean Aylmer: ... about what they view. And it is interesting, those 62 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:32,470 Sean Aylmer: two particularly have a real affection and genuine concern for 63 00:03:32,470 --> 00:03:33,140 Sean Aylmer: him, it seems. 64 00:03:33,540 --> 00:03:38,580 Damon Kitney: Yeah. Well, start with Jones, that was actually quite controversial through the 65 00:03:38,580 --> 00:03:41,900 Damon Kitney: book process, because I don't know Alan Jones especially well, 66 00:03:41,900 --> 00:03:44,430 Damon Kitney: he was very generous with the time he gave me 67 00:03:44,660 --> 00:03:46,580 Damon Kitney: in the book, but he talked about things that have 68 00:03:46,580 --> 00:03:51,260 Damon Kitney: really been taboo in the Packer public discourse, most notably 69 00:03:51,310 --> 00:03:56,370 Damon Kitney: James's relationship with his late father's mistress, which is well 70 00:03:56,370 --> 00:03:59,770 Damon Kitney: known. And Jones actually made some very strong comments about 71 00:03:59,920 --> 00:04:03,820 Damon Kitney: the bond between them, and how difficult he felt it 72 00:04:03,820 --> 00:04:06,760 Damon Kitney: was for James growing up in that sort of bubble, 73 00:04:06,900 --> 00:04:10,690 Damon Kitney: as such. And that was very honest by Alan, and 74 00:04:10,690 --> 00:04:13,510 Damon Kitney: I think it did cause a bit of grief when 75 00:04:13,510 --> 00:04:16,760 Damon Kitney: the book came out. But I think, overall, it was 76 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:20,279 Damon Kitney: just an honest view. And I think Jones genuinely has an affection 77 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:23,610 Damon Kitney: for James, he really is saddened by what he sees. 78 00:04:24,380 --> 00:04:28,729 Damon Kitney: Again, James surrounded by people not necessarily looking out for 79 00:04:28,730 --> 00:04:32,650 Damon Kitney: his best intentions, miles from his homeland, and as Jones says in 80 00:04:32,650 --> 00:04:36,100 Damon Kitney: the book, " Come home, James, there's people here that love 81 00:04:36,100 --> 00:04:39,060 Damon Kitney: you and want to help you". But that's the sad 82 00:04:39,060 --> 00:04:44,020 Damon Kitney: reality for James Packer. He would openly acknowledge that Sydney 83 00:04:44,050 --> 00:04:47,170 Damon Kitney: holds a lot of damnance for him, Sydney in particular. And 84 00:04:47,170 --> 00:04:50,960 Damon Kitney: I don't know whether you'll ever see him ever live in this country again. 85 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:52,120 Sean Aylmer: Kerry Stokes. 86 00:04:52,770 --> 00:04:56,390 Damon Kitney: So with Stokes, and that's a very strange relationship, because 87 00:04:56,740 --> 00:05:01,890 Damon Kitney: they were archenemies for so many years. Stokes and Kerry Packer were 88 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:06,120 Damon Kitney: great adversaries. I think Kerry Stokes has genuinely seen who 89 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:08,980 Damon Kitney: the real James Packer is, that he does have a 90 00:05:08,980 --> 00:05:13,970 Damon Kitney: heart down beneath all the bluster. And I think he genuinely 91 00:05:14,250 --> 00:05:16,630 Damon Kitney: has wanted to help him, and I think through the 92 00:05:16,630 --> 00:05:22,330 Damon Kitney: whole Mariah Carey situation, Stokes with his experience of being 93 00:05:22,330 --> 00:05:25,339 Damon Kitney: a worldly person for many, many years, he saw the 94 00:05:25,339 --> 00:05:27,520 Damon Kitney: danger and he wanted to help James out of that 95 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:31,529 Damon Kitney: situation. And who knows what would've happened if Kerry Stokes 96 00:05:31,529 --> 00:05:34,790 Damon Kitney: hadn't of intervened, and in those circumstances, James would probably 97 00:05:34,790 --> 00:05:37,440 Damon Kitney: be married to Mariah Carey, and who knows what from there? 98 00:05:37,910 --> 00:05:39,960 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. Stay with me Damon, we'll be back in a 99 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:48,109 Sean Aylmer: minute. I'm speaking to Damon Kitney, business commentator, and the author 100 00:05:48,110 --> 00:05:51,020 Sean Aylmer: of The Price of Fortune, the biography of James Packer. 101 00:05:51,700 --> 00:05:55,299 Sean Aylmer: James Packer clearly has a charming side. I've been on 102 00:05:55,300 --> 00:05:58,969 Sean Aylmer: the end of James Packer tirades, but he's also kind of 103 00:05:59,070 --> 00:06:00,350 Sean Aylmer: charming as well. 104 00:06:00,670 --> 00:06:03,450 Damon Kitney: Yeah, I think that's totally right, Sean, and I think a lot 105 00:06:03,450 --> 00:06:06,669 Damon Kitney: of people don't understand that side to his character, those 106 00:06:06,670 --> 00:06:08,779 Damon Kitney: that have seen him over the decades do appreciate it. I think, certainly, it 107 00:06:08,779 --> 00:06:14,660 Damon Kitney: took charm to do the things that he did in 108 00:06:14,660 --> 00:06:17,469 Damon Kitney: business. A lot of people forget the investments that he 109 00:06:17,470 --> 00:06:22,860 Damon Kitney: got into early, companies like SEEK and Carsales that we 110 00:06:22,860 --> 00:06:26,250 Damon Kitney: just talk about now as the powerhouses of the internet. Well, James 111 00:06:26,250 --> 00:06:29,320 Damon Kitney: Packer picked them early on and invested in them. Sadly, 112 00:06:29,860 --> 00:06:34,430 Damon Kitney: he got out of them well before they matured and 113 00:06:34,589 --> 00:06:36,560 Damon Kitney: left a lot of money on the table, and I 114 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:39,560 Damon Kitney: think that knocks him around. I think the sad reality 115 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:42,300 Damon Kitney: now for James, and again, he would acknowledge this, is 116 00:06:42,370 --> 00:06:46,620 Damon Kitney: his difficult mental health issues, which have led to him 117 00:06:47,290 --> 00:06:50,490 Damon Kitney: taking a lot of different prescription medicines, which he talks 118 00:06:50,490 --> 00:06:53,710 Damon Kitney: about in the book. I think they've probably taken an edge off that 119 00:06:53,710 --> 00:06:58,089 Damon Kitney: charm sadly, because it really does dull your mood, those 120 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:02,190 Damon Kitney: drugs. And I think now he's on a very somber, 121 00:07:02,650 --> 00:07:05,969 Damon Kitney: calm wavelength, if that's the right term, and you won't, 122 00:07:05,970 --> 00:07:10,450 Damon Kitney: probably, see ever again that amazing James Packer, as you 123 00:07:10,450 --> 00:07:14,290 Damon Kitney: say, charm and great humor that he had. It's just 124 00:07:14,290 --> 00:07:16,760 Damon Kitney: not quite there as it used to be. But you 125 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:18,900 Damon Kitney: see glimpses of it when you speak to him. And 126 00:07:19,220 --> 00:07:21,940 Damon Kitney: he's doing his best in a really difficult situation, but 127 00:07:21,940 --> 00:07:24,620 Damon Kitney: again, he would acknowledge that it's just been a lot harder 128 00:07:24,620 --> 00:07:27,380 Damon Kitney: for him to keep his emotions under control. 129 00:07:27,890 --> 00:07:30,740 Sean Aylmer: You went to different parts of the world, literally, to 130 00:07:30,740 --> 00:07:34,390 Sean Aylmer: do the book, and he contributed to the book. What's 131 00:07:34,390 --> 00:07:38,310 Sean Aylmer: his relationship like with his kids, for example, and his ex- 132 00:07:38,310 --> 00:07:40,760 Sean Aylmer: wives, and things like that? Did you ever see him 133 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:41,420 Sean Aylmer: with his kids? 134 00:07:41,970 --> 00:07:45,310 Damon Kitney: Well, the ex- wives first, he still has a very 135 00:07:45,730 --> 00:07:49,540 Damon Kitney: good relationship with the mother of his children, Erica, and 136 00:07:49,580 --> 00:07:54,350 Damon Kitney: they have a very cordial relationship. They would say they're still 137 00:07:54,350 --> 00:07:56,940 Damon Kitney: very good friends, especially for the sake of the children. 138 00:07:57,570 --> 00:08:02,460 Damon Kitney: His first wife, Jodhi Meares, incredibly close to her. They're 139 00:08:02,460 --> 00:08:06,660 Damon Kitney: real kindred spirits, I think. And Jodhi was kind enough 140 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:08,400 Damon Kitney: to give me a face- to- face interview for the 141 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:12,050 Damon Kitney: book. And it was quite amazing to see just what regard she 142 00:08:12,050 --> 00:08:15,300 Damon Kitney: had for James, whatever the critics might say about her 143 00:08:15,530 --> 00:08:18,340 Damon Kitney: motivations, you could just see it in the way that 144 00:08:18,340 --> 00:08:22,490 Damon Kitney: she spoke. And she regularly spends time with James now 145 00:08:22,490 --> 00:08:26,060 Damon Kitney: in the various parts of the world, they remain really good 146 00:08:26,060 --> 00:08:30,350 Damon Kitney: friends and, as I said, kindred spirits. With his children, 147 00:08:30,660 --> 00:08:33,170 Damon Kitney: that was a real privilege when I met him in 148 00:08:33,170 --> 00:08:36,270 Damon Kitney: Mexico for a few days for a series of interviews 149 00:08:36,270 --> 00:08:38,170 Damon Kitney: on the book, his children were actually there when I 150 00:08:38,170 --> 00:08:41,679 Damon Kitney: arrived, and he'd just actually come from a boat trip with 151 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:47,179 Damon Kitney: them out in the Sea of Cortez. He's like any father, he 152 00:08:47,179 --> 00:08:50,530 Damon Kitney: loves his kids and he looks really devoted to them 153 00:08:50,530 --> 00:08:54,719 Damon Kitney: when you see him with them. Another little part of 154 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:57,339 Damon Kitney: the book, which was quite moving, I guess, is when 155 00:08:57,340 --> 00:08:59,850 Damon Kitney: I saw him in France, in the last stage of 156 00:08:59,850 --> 00:09:02,150 Damon Kitney: the interview, his children were actually staying in Saint- Tropez, and 157 00:09:03,350 --> 00:09:05,500 Damon Kitney: he went off and spent three or four hours with 158 00:09:05,500 --> 00:09:08,120 Damon Kitney: them at a house Erica was renting there, and you 159 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:11,309 Damon Kitney: could see in his eyes when he came back how nice 160 00:09:11,710 --> 00:09:15,030 Damon Kitney: it was, and someone that went with him that day, when 161 00:09:15,030 --> 00:09:18,010 Damon Kitney: they returned, they said to me, " You could just see, 162 00:09:18,010 --> 00:09:23,900 Damon Kitney: particularly in Jackson, James's son's eyes, he lit up when 163 00:09:23,900 --> 00:09:25,870 Damon Kitney: his dad came into the room". At the end of 164 00:09:25,870 --> 00:09:29,340 Damon Kitney: the day, it's a surreal world with boats and planes 165 00:09:29,340 --> 00:09:31,950 Damon Kitney: and houses and all this, but he still is a father 166 00:09:31,950 --> 00:09:36,380 Damon Kitney: to three pretty special children for him. So, he's a 167 00:09:36,380 --> 00:09:37,720 Damon Kitney: human being like all of us. 168 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:40,550 Sean Aylmer: So tell me, why do you think he let you in, 169 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:44,260 Sean Aylmer: Damon, because he's intensely private, and I know you have 170 00:09:44,260 --> 00:09:46,390 Sean Aylmer: known him for a long time and it's a true 171 00:09:46,830 --> 00:09:49,970 Sean Aylmer: credit to you, but it still surprised me somewhat that 172 00:09:49,970 --> 00:09:51,390 Sean Aylmer: he allowed a journalist in. 173 00:09:51,929 --> 00:09:55,200 Damon Kitney: Yeah, been asked that question a lot of times, I 174 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:57,860 Damon Kitney: think it was just about context, that's probably the most 175 00:09:57,860 --> 00:10:01,330 Damon Kitney: important point. I was very lucky with the timing of 176 00:10:01,330 --> 00:10:03,960 Damon Kitney: all this coming together. He was at a point in 177 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:07,970 Damon Kitney: his life in 2017, at the end of that, where there 178 00:10:07,970 --> 00:10:11,069 Damon Kitney: was a lot of mystery about what he'd been doing. 179 00:10:11,179 --> 00:10:14,850 Damon Kitney: He'd just finished the relationship with Mariah Carey at the 180 00:10:15,170 --> 00:10:21,679 Damon Kitney: end of 2016, and 2017 was a disastrous year for 181 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:25,010 Damon Kitney: him, with various things happening at Crown, and staff being 182 00:10:25,010 --> 00:10:28,100 Damon Kitney: arrested in China, which made global headlines. And he just 183 00:10:28,100 --> 00:10:30,510 Damon Kitney: went into the third nervous breakdown of his life and 184 00:10:30,510 --> 00:10:34,819 Damon Kitney: just retreated. And I guess when I came knocking and 185 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:38,569 Damon Kitney: a publisher did ask me, " Would James cooperate for his 186 00:10:38,929 --> 00:10:41,470 Damon Kitney: biography?" And I actually told him, " There's no way that's 187 00:10:41,470 --> 00:10:45,540 Damon Kitney: going to happen". But I think, when I approached James 188 00:10:45,540 --> 00:10:48,730 Damon Kitney: with the idea, he clearly thought, " Well, now's a good 189 00:10:48,730 --> 00:10:53,099 Damon Kitney: opportunity to work with someone that I trust to tell 190 00:10:53,100 --> 00:10:55,950 Damon Kitney: my truth", as he calls it. And you know, we've 191 00:10:55,950 --> 00:10:59,939 Damon Kitney: always had a very courteous, professional relationship, but we're not 192 00:11:00,330 --> 00:11:03,160 Damon Kitney: bosom buddies, as such. We don't hang out together. It's 193 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:06,880 Damon Kitney: always been a very professional relationship, and that's the way 194 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:09,270 Damon Kitney: it was right through the book. I was there to 195 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:12,500 Damon Kitney: do a job, and he respected that and he gave 196 00:11:12,510 --> 00:11:17,730 Damon Kitney: me amazing access and amazing openness in that process. And 197 00:11:17,730 --> 00:11:20,230 Damon Kitney: for him, he will always say " That book, that's the 198 00:11:21,110 --> 00:11:24,400 Damon Kitney: best chance for my truth to be told to the 199 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:28,699 Damon Kitney: world in a fair and balanced way." And he's always had 200 00:11:28,700 --> 00:11:31,360 Damon Kitney: a very uneasy relationship with the media, he always feels 201 00:11:31,450 --> 00:11:35,540 Damon Kitney: that he gets treated unfairly. That's up for debate. But I 202 00:11:35,540 --> 00:11:39,070 Damon Kitney: think in that context, he felt that this was an 203 00:11:39,070 --> 00:11:41,809 Damon Kitney: opportunity to get a fair and balanced hearing. And I 204 00:11:41,809 --> 00:11:45,199 Damon Kitney: guess that's what I always do with my journalism, and it didn't differ 205 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:45,700 Damon Kitney: in the book. 206 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:49,470 Sean Aylmer: So what about Crown Resorts? Do you think it would 207 00:11:49,470 --> 00:11:51,960 Sean Aylmer: pain him to see what's happened in the last year 208 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:52,160 Sean Aylmer: or two? 209 00:11:52,830 --> 00:11:56,690 Damon Kitney: Oh yeah. I think he's, absolutely beats himself up every 210 00:11:56,690 --> 00:11:59,570 Damon Kitney: day about what's happened at Crown. I think it's causing a 211 00:11:59,570 --> 00:12:03,170 Damon Kitney: lot of emotional damage, before we even talk about the 212 00:12:03,170 --> 00:12:08,809 Damon Kitney: monetary side. Financially, Crown has dropped significantly in value in 213 00:12:08,809 --> 00:12:10,980 Damon Kitney: the last couple of years. It's now, thankfully, getting up 214 00:12:10,980 --> 00:12:13,870 Damon Kitney: to a bit better value than what it was. But 215 00:12:14,309 --> 00:12:18,319 Damon Kitney: I just think Crown has been his life for many 216 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:25,160 Damon Kitney: years, and that's why he's been so involved, even from 217 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:28,500 Damon Kitney: thousands of miles away in the management of the company, 218 00:12:28,590 --> 00:12:31,070 Damon Kitney: as was highlighted in the Royal Commissions. But I think you have 219 00:12:31,070 --> 00:12:34,590 Damon Kitney: to be clear that James wasn't sitting there every day, 220 00:12:34,590 --> 00:12:38,000 Damon Kitney: running the business from a boat in the sea somewhere, 221 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:41,949 Damon Kitney: he just wanted to keep tabs on the operations, and 222 00:12:41,950 --> 00:12:44,089 Damon Kitney: he thinks about it every day, thinks about the numbers, 223 00:12:44,090 --> 00:12:46,230 Damon Kitney: how they're going. It pains him when they have a 224 00:12:46,230 --> 00:12:49,329 Damon Kitney: bad night, but the high rollers, for example, he's just 225 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,120 Damon Kitney: very connected to the business. And unfortunately, as the Royal 226 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:57,250 Damon Kitney: Commission in Sydney found, and in Melbourne, that influence was 227 00:12:57,250 --> 00:13:00,130 Damon Kitney: actually quite damaging for the business. Particularly being a bit 228 00:13:00,220 --> 00:13:03,270 Damon Kitney: of an absentee landlord, as he was for many years. 229 00:13:04,540 --> 00:13:08,290 Sean Aylmer: He has to sell down his 37% stake over, well, 230 00:13:08,290 --> 00:13:10,490 Sean Aylmer: the Royal Commission wanted three years, I think he's pushing 231 00:13:10,490 --> 00:13:11,220 Sean Aylmer: for five years. 232 00:13:11,830 --> 00:13:12,050 Damon Kitney: Yeah. 233 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:16,090 Sean Aylmer: Do you think that this latest offer from the private equity group 234 00:13:16,090 --> 00:13:18,239 Sean Aylmer: Blackstone is good enough? 235 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:20,309 Damon Kitney: I don't think it's going to be good enough at that 236 00:13:20,309 --> 00:13:23,590 Damon Kitney: price, but I think it certainly has started the process. And 237 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:26,250 Damon Kitney: I think the fact that the Crown board, although they 238 00:13:26,250 --> 00:13:30,310 Damon Kitney: rejected the initial bid last week, the fact they opened 239 00:13:30,740 --> 00:13:33,319 Damon Kitney: for some due diligence is a turning point. And I 240 00:13:34,020 --> 00:13:37,059 Damon Kitney: think we're now on a process, which is going to 241 00:13:37,710 --> 00:13:40,240 Damon Kitney: see the Packer family exit Crown, it's just a question 242 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:44,040 Damon Kitney: of when and what the price is. And I think James 243 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:48,230 Damon Kitney: would've been very relieved as well as happy to see 244 00:13:48,390 --> 00:13:52,209 Damon Kitney: Blackstone return, because I think, in his eyes, there was a 245 00:13:52,210 --> 00:13:55,590 Damon Kitney: period last year where he seriously would've thought that they would've lost 246 00:13:55,590 --> 00:13:59,950 Damon Kitney: their licenses everywhere. And I think it's been an amazing relief to 247 00:13:59,950 --> 00:14:03,050 Damon Kitney: him that A, they didn't and B, there are still 248 00:14:03,690 --> 00:14:07,330 Damon Kitney: big global companies with deep pockets, like Blackstone, who are 249 00:14:07,330 --> 00:14:10,630 Damon Kitney: willing to buy the assets. So I think for him, 250 00:14:10,630 --> 00:14:14,250 Damon Kitney: that's just a real blessing. And at the end of the 251 00:14:14,250 --> 00:14:17,700 Damon Kitney: day, he will sell, that's a fact. And it's just 252 00:14:17,700 --> 00:14:20,700 Damon Kitney: a question of what the price will be, and over what timeframe that's 253 00:14:20,700 --> 00:14:23,620 Damon Kitney: going to happen. But he'll certainly be out of there 254 00:14:23,910 --> 00:14:27,620 Damon Kitney: well before that three- year deadline, I would imagine, if 255 00:14:27,620 --> 00:14:28,470 Damon Kitney: he can orchestrate it. 256 00:14:29,030 --> 00:14:30,640 Sean Aylmer: Damon, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 257 00:14:31,020 --> 00:14:31,760 Damon Kitney: No worries, Sean. 258 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:34,880 Sean Aylmer: That was Damon Kitney, business commentator, and the author of The 259 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:38,380 Sean Aylmer: Price of Fortune, the biography of James Packer. This is the Fear 260 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:40,870 Sean Aylmer: and Greed Daily Interview. Join me every morning for the 261 00:14:40,870 --> 00:14:43,330 Sean Aylmer: full Fear and Greed podcast with all the business news 262 00:14:43,430 --> 00:14:46,010 Sean Aylmer: you need to know. I'm Sean Aylmer, enjoy your day.