WEBVTT - Episode 28: The Lawyer's Picnic 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:04.680 Listeners are advised that this podcast series brow contains coarse 0:00:04.800 --> 0:00:08.840 language and adult themes. This podcast series is brought to 0:00:08.880 --> 0:00:11.719 you by me Headley Thomas and The Australian. 0:00:42.360 --> 0:00:45.400 This Morning, you said on Earth that Bronwan told you 0:00:45.440 --> 0:00:48.080 on a number of occasions that John would kill her 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:51.800 if she made a claim on the house. Nowhere in 0:00:51.840 --> 0:00:54.480 your written statement have you said that. Why? 0:00:55.600 --> 0:00:56.720 Well, I don't know. 0:00:57.640 --> 0:00:59.800 I sat down with the police and I told them 0:00:59.800 --> 0:01:01.120 what I thought at the time. 0:01:02.360 --> 0:01:07.160 It can be an excruciating experience for a witness under pressure, 0:01:07.880 --> 0:01:11.760 giving evidence under oath in a crowded courtroom, knowing that 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:16.000 a skillful lawyer opposite has rehearsed a list of pointed 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:20.200 questions and is determined to challenge not just your memory, 0:01:20.360 --> 0:01:25.880 but your credibility and perhaps your integrity. And it's not personal. 0:01:26.160 --> 0:01:29.760 It's not the lawyer's fault. He or she is simply 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:34.640 acting on instructions retained for a fee to represent a client, 0:01:34.959 --> 0:01:39.480 someone such as John Winfield, a man who was effectively 0:01:39.560 --> 0:01:42.520 fighting for his freedom for the rest of his life 0:01:42.920 --> 0:01:47.720 during the two thousand and two inquest in Lismore. John 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:51.760 must have known that the police detective Sergeant Glenn Taylor 0:01:51.960 --> 0:01:55.600 wanted to level a murder charge at the earliest opportunity. 0:01:56.680 --> 0:02:00.600 The coronial proceeding was simply a legal stepping stone to 0:02:00.720 --> 0:02:05.919 this objective. John and his lawyer, Craig Leggett also knew 0:02:06.240 --> 0:02:09.640 from the exchanges in court on day one that the 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:14.960 Deputy State Coroner, Karl Milavanovitch was deeply suspicious about what 0:02:15.240 --> 0:02:19.280 had happened to broman So as early as day two 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:22.720 of the inquest, the chances that the coroner would get 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:25.440 to the end of the proceeding and then recommend to 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:29.800 the DPP that it prosecute a known person for murder 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:30.680 were high. 0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:32.880 But in the evidence of. 0:02:32.880 --> 0:02:37.799 Bromwin's cousin, Megan Reid, John and his lawyer believed there 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:44.639 was a lot to explore. Ambiguity and inconsistency, differences between 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:49.120 who said what and when. These are the gems that 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:54.240 lawyers seek to mind and then explore carefully in court 0:02:54.440 --> 0:02:57.920 in an effort to not just discredit a witness, but 0:02:58.040 --> 0:03:02.880 discredit a broader police case and perhaps pave a pathway 0:03:03.000 --> 0:03:05.720 from potential doom for John Winfield. 0:03:06.840 --> 0:03:10.720 What we know for sure and certain is that John's. 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:16.120 Lawyer, Craig Leggett, focused intently on Megan's evidence. Shortly before 0:03:16.360 --> 0:03:20.320 this episode of the Bromwin series was released, I spoke 0:03:20.360 --> 0:03:24.040 to Megan about some of that evidence and the attacks 0:03:24.120 --> 0:03:28.839 on her credibility. You'll hear her take on these things too, 0:03:29.680 --> 0:03:32.920 but first, here's the rest of her time in the 0:03:32.960 --> 0:03:35.400 witness box on day two of. 0:03:35.440 --> 0:03:39.000 The inquest I mean, when you've had time to think 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:41.960 about things, I suppose everything comes out. I've had so 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:45.600 many conversations with Bromwin over the years. I've known all 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:46.480 my life. 0:03:46.800 --> 0:03:47.920 There's nothing in your diary. 0:03:48.000 --> 0:03:49.120 Is that it does there have to be. 0:03:49.280 --> 0:03:52.320 We say, well, it is, if it's true. 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:53.160 That it's true? 0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:55.720 Man, please, sorry, sorry. 0:03:56.000 --> 0:03:58.000 We'll get through this a lot easier if you just 0:03:58.080 --> 0:04:00.600 listen to the questions, don't speak over the top of 0:04:00.640 --> 0:04:03.040 each other. This is a fact finding mission, and you 0:04:03.080 --> 0:04:05.800 do your best to try and recall your memory and 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:08.520 try and focus on the questions that mister Leggatt is asking. 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:10.440 Think about them before your answer. 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:14.520 If Bromwood had used the words to you that included 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:17.520 he's threatening to kill me, you would have put those 0:04:17.520 --> 0:04:19.159 words in your diary, wouldn't you? 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:22.320 Threatening to kill me is not what she said. She 0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:25.240 did not ever say he was threatening to kill me. 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:28.320 Your allegation is that he said to Bromin, I'm going. 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:29.480 To kill you. 0:04:29.520 --> 0:04:32.320 No, he did not say that. She did not say that, 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:33.680 and I did not say that. 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:36.680 I said that she told me he would kill her 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:38.960 if she ever tried to get the house. 0:04:38.960 --> 0:04:41.839 And he would kill her. Nothing like that is found 0:04:41.880 --> 0:04:42.920 in your diary, is there. 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:46.680 Well, no, I wouldn't have written that down, I suppose 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:50.240 because she wasn't missing. I written my diary after she 0:04:50.320 --> 0:04:50.800 was missing. 0:04:51.720 --> 0:04:55.320 And you're seriously saying on oath that something is absolutely 0:04:55.360 --> 0:04:58.800 as critical as that somehow just flipped your mind. 0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:00.960 It never slipped my mind. 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:05.400 I mean, she always maintained that right from carnladays And 0:05:05.600 --> 0:05:08.200 I don't know why it's not in my statement, but 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:09.120 it's true. 0:05:10.000 --> 0:05:13.480 Well, it's not in your statement. It's not in your diary. 0:05:14.120 --> 0:05:16.000 And the first time you said that to the police 0:05:16.040 --> 0:05:18.320 is in the witness box this morning, isn't it. 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:22.760 Well, in my diary are the entries of things that 0:05:22.839 --> 0:05:26.440 happened after she was gone. So obviously it's not there. 0:05:27.000 --> 0:05:29.760 And in a statement, I mean, I don't know why 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:32.640 it's not there. I had a lot of information coming 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:34.480 at once, like I don't know. 0:05:34.880 --> 0:05:36.760 I don't know, but it's true that she said that. 0:05:38.720 --> 0:05:42.880 In paragraph seven of her police statement, a document dated 0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:47.680 August eleventh, nineteen ninety eight, so four years before the 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:52.400 inquest and her appearance as a witness, Megan stated this. 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:56.480 What I do remember is that Bromwin told me when 0:05:56.520 --> 0:05:59.920 she was living in Cronulla that John had written her 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:03.800 if she ever made a claim on his house. Apparently 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:08.000 John had lost two houses before to previous wife and 0:06:08.120 --> 0:06:09.320 was very bitter about it. 0:06:10.320 --> 0:06:14.960 Meghan's police statement does not include the words threatened to kill. 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:19.080 It doesn't mean that Meghan didn't intend to say this 0:06:19.240 --> 0:06:22.279 when she made her statement in nineteen ninety eight, but 0:06:22.400 --> 0:06:25.839 those words were added by Meghan at the inquest. 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:29.280 Well, let's look at some of the things that the 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:31.479 police record you as having told the police. 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:35.760 Craig Leggett took Meghan right back to nineteen ninety three 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:38.400 again and Graham Diskin's running sheet. 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:42.760 Meghan stated that she had twice spoken to the missing 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:47.479 person only days before her disappearance. Now was that right? 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:51.840 Had you spoken, yes, and only that she was able 0:06:51.880 --> 0:06:54.840 to recognize her voice, she would not have believed that. 0:06:54.880 --> 0:06:57.839 In fact, it was Bronwin she was angry. 0:06:58.680 --> 0:07:01.680 Meghan stated, the missing person was talking a lot of rubbish, 0:07:02.320 --> 0:07:04.480 but she did not seem to be affected by drugs 0:07:04.600 --> 0:07:05.200 or alcohol. 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:09.800 No, she didn't. She was very coherent, so it was 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:13.880 coherent rubbish. She was very no. 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:17.760 Well, when I say rubbish, I didn't realize until later 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:21.080 what she was talking about. It was rubbish to me 0:07:21.320 --> 0:07:23.239 because I didn't comprehend what she meant. 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:28.320 Statements were made like you will all pay You can remember. 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:31.720 That meaning the family the family, Well. 0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:34.320 Leaving aside what it means or what you understood it 0:07:34.360 --> 0:07:37.200 to mean. You seemed to be acknowledging that what was 0:07:37.240 --> 0:07:39.280 said or words to that effect was said in the 0:07:39.280 --> 0:07:40.080 phone conversation. 0:07:41.280 --> 0:07:42.240 Yes, that's right. 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:46.040 And this statement none of you will know what is happening, 0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:47.320 that's right. 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:49.520 I think she believed she was going to cut us 0:07:49.560 --> 0:07:51.080 off because we had cut her off. 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:53.920 None of you will know what is happening, and other 0:07:53.960 --> 0:07:58.520 statements that meant nothing to Meghan. Next sentence, Meghan stated 0:07:58.560 --> 0:08:01.040 that she has no fears about John Field being involved 0:08:01.080 --> 0:08:05.360 in anything underward so far as his wife's disappearance is concerned. 0:08:06.160 --> 0:08:09.080 You said words to that effect to Detective Discan, didn't you. 0:08:09.840 --> 0:08:12.120 No, I don't remember saying that at all. 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:17.800 Next sentence. In the past, she that's you, has questioned 0:08:17.840 --> 0:08:20.880 bron When over her attitude and lies about John and 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:24.520 broun Won admitted she was seeking attention. Did you deal 0:08:24.560 --> 0:08:26.480 with that topic with Detective Discan. 0:08:27.360 --> 0:08:28.680 I've never believed that ever. 0:08:29.080 --> 0:08:30.640 No, No, just answer my question. 0:08:31.040 --> 0:08:34.520 No, I don't believe so. No. No, I don't know 0:08:34.520 --> 0:08:35.280 what's happened there. 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:40.040 But no, no, let's try it again. Okay, No, just 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:42.360 listen carefully to the question. 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:48.400 The deputy state coroner, Karl Milavanovitch was listening patiently, and 0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:50.640 he had a firm message for Megan. 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:54.120 Could I just interrupt there for a moment, Man, it's 0:08:54.280 --> 0:08:57.320 very important that you understand that what you're being questioned 0:08:57.360 --> 0:08:59.840 on is what you purportedly told sergeant. 0:09:00.360 --> 0:09:02.479 Yes, I understand that, not the state. 0:09:02.240 --> 0:09:04.720 Of your mind. Now, do you understand the difference. 0:09:05.280 --> 0:09:07.319 Yes, I don't remember saying that at all. 0:09:07.600 --> 0:09:10.679 Focus on that you're being asked questions about what you 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:13.560 told Sergeant Discan back in nineteen ninety three. 0:09:14.000 --> 0:09:18.720 Yes, let me try that again. In the past, she 0:09:18.880 --> 0:09:22.520 questioned Bronwin over her attitude and lies about John and 0:09:22.600 --> 0:09:26.800 Bromwan admitted she was seeking attention. Now, my question is, 0:09:27.480 --> 0:09:32.160 can you remember that topic being discussed with Sergeant discm No, 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:36.960 I cannot know if it had been discussed. We were 0:09:36.960 --> 0:09:39.439 aware in nineteen ninety three that Bronwin had told lies 0:09:39.440 --> 0:09:40.800 about John in the past. 0:09:41.400 --> 0:09:43.400 No, I'm not aware of anything like that. 0:09:43.600 --> 0:09:47.080 No, did you at any stage say to Sergeant Discan 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:51.920 words to the effect Bronwyn has admitted to me that 0:09:51.960 --> 0:09:53.760 she's only seeking attention. 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:55.360 No. 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:58.560 Now you go on and you say this she this 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:02.000 is you please that John is a great father and 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:05.240 career of the two children involved in the marriage. Now, 0:10:05.280 --> 0:10:07.960 was that your opinion in September of nineteen ninety three. 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:11.480 It was not my opinion in May of nineteen ninety. 0:10:11.120 --> 0:10:14.320 Three, So I don't recall that it would have been 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:16.319 in September of nineteen ninety three. 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:19.520 Despite that being what you now say is your opinion 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:22.560 in nineteen ninety three. Do you say you did not 0:10:22.600 --> 0:10:25.280 tell Sergeant Discin that John was a great father. 0:10:26.160 --> 0:10:29.400 I don't recollect saying that. But I also didn't believe 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:33.040 he would ever harm the children. He looked after the children. 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:38.080 I do believe Sergeant Diskin records this. Megan believes that 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:41.360 in the past, Bronwan was a user of cannabis. Now, 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:44.439 just pausing there, do you have knowledge one way or 0:10:44.480 --> 0:10:47.920 the other as to whether Bronwan has ever used cannabis? 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:49.920 No, I do not. 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:51.640 You're seriously saying that. 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:53.080 I know that. 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:56.120 I mean, was it your opinion that Bronwin could properly 0:10:56.160 --> 0:10:57.920 be described as a flower child? 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:01.199 She was far from a flower. She was more of 0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:02.240 a glam. 0:11:02.440 --> 0:11:05.360 Let me put this to you, Sergeant Discin records it this. 0:11:06.000 --> 0:11:09.240 She may well be living on a commune somewhere. Now, 0:11:09.280 --> 0:11:11.880 did Sergeant Discan ever ask you about where you thought 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:15.120 Bronwin might be? Was that topic ever discussed? 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:16.680 I don't recollect that. 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:18.800 No, but it may have been. 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:21.240 Well, it may have been, but I don't know. 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:24.360 And I know that I would have never have thought 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:25.560 of Bromin on a commune. 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:29.160 Never, never, never, ever, She wouldn't go to a commune. 0:11:29.679 --> 0:11:32.480 Are you denying that you said to Sergeant Discan words 0:11:32.520 --> 0:11:35.040 to the effect she may well be living on a 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:35.959 commune somewhere. 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:40.840 I don't recollect saying that whatsoever. I can't imagine myself 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:41.360 saying that. 0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:44.959 You say, you don't recollect You're not going so far 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:45.960 as to deny it. 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:49.680 Well, I am denying that I said that because I 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:51.040 don't believe I said that. 0:11:51.400 --> 0:11:53.520 It goes against everything I've ever thought. 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:57.240 And no, now, let me take you to this. Sergeant 0:11:57.280 --> 0:12:01.480 Discin records this. Megan also reiterated the fact that her 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:04.640 mother did exactly the same thing some years ago and 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:07.360 believes that one day she will walk back into the 0:12:07.360 --> 0:12:11.280 family home as if nothing happened due to her state 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:14.880 of mind at the time of her disappearance. Was that topic, 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:18.800 that is the topic like mother, like daughter discussed with 0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:19.640 Sergeant Discin. 0:12:20.520 --> 0:12:23.280 I have always maintained no, no, just answer the question. 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:27.760 No, Well, if it was, I've always maintained that she 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:28.840 was nothing like her. 0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:32.800 Mother, nothing like her mother's well, just step by step. 0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:34.760 So you seem to be acknowledging that. 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:37.480 The topic I'm not just wait, okay. 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:39.760 You seem to be acknowledging that the topic of Bronwan's 0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:42.840 mother's behavior was discussed with Sergeant Discin. 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:47.520 No, I'm not saying that at all. I don't remember 0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:48.880 talking to him about. 0:12:48.600 --> 0:12:49.200 It at all. 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:50.920 But you're not denying I am. 0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:52.040 Not denying it. 0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:56.240 The topic I don't know, I don't know, I don't remember. 0:12:56.840 --> 0:12:58.839 It was a long, long, time ago. 0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:02.439 Now, Bronwyn ripping the phone off the wall. You can 0:13:02.520 --> 0:13:04.120 remember that event being described to. 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:06.679 You, remember Crystal telling me about the event? 0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:07.599 Yeah. 0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:09.960 Had Bromwin ever ripped the phone off the wall prior 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:11.400 to that, as far as you're. 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:13.880 Aware, prior to her disappearance or. 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:15.720 To her ripping the phone off the wall on. 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:18.400 That occasion, No, not that I know of. 0:13:18.840 --> 0:13:22.800 No, so it would be fair to describe that event 0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:25.120 as being something out of the ordinary. 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:25.719 I'd say so. 0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:26.160 Yes. 0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:31.760 John's lawyer had two final questions for Megan. They related 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:36.480 again to Centrelink and Bronwyn's sole parent pension. He took 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:39.680 Megan further back in time to when Bromwyn had just 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:42.720 moved into a flash in Cronala in the Shire with 0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:44.600 John and her daughter Crystal. 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:48.959 It was nineteen eighty five. You spoke about friction between 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:52.760 John and Bronwin in the Cronula days. Are you aware 0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:56.640 that when John and Bronwin were first living together, Bronwin 0:13:56.760 --> 0:13:59.360 was still claiming a sole parent pension from Centerlink. 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:01.640 No, I wasn't aware of that. 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:04.720 Did Bromwin ever say to you that that was the 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:07.880 cause of the disharmony between Bronwin and John? And by 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:10.600 that I mean that John wanted Bromwin to disclose tossentdling 0:14:11.280 --> 0:14:14.240 that she was no longer entitled to a sole parent 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:16.480 pension and she was not prepared to. 0:14:17.040 --> 0:14:17.120 No. 0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:18.680 I've never heard of that before. 0:14:18.800 --> 0:14:18.880 No. 0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:23.480 As you heard in episode twenty one, John told the 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:27.120 detective Graham Diskin that Bromwin agreed with John on the 0:14:27.240 --> 0:14:30.840 night of her disappearance that she would take her break 0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:33.880 from the children for eight to ten days while he 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:38.880 took the children to Sydney. Sixteen days after that purported 0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:43.280 conversation with Bromwin, on the night she disappeared, John went 0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:48.040 and canceled her single parent government support payments and diverted 0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:53.160 those to himself. Craig Leggett's question to Megan suggested that 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:56.920 in nineteen eighty five, when Bromwin had just met John, 0:14:57.400 --> 0:15:00.640 Bromwin was claiming a single parent pench for the care 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:04.520 of Crystal, and that after moving in with John in Quanulla, 0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:09.560 she kept receiving the government payment, creating disharmony between her 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:12.800 and John because John believed she should no longer have 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:17.880 been entitled to it. These were the lawyer's suggestions. John 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:21.440 was simply correcting the record. Putting his name down as 0:15:21.480 --> 0:15:27.360 the children's single parent, according to Craig Legot. Finally, Megan 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:32.760 Reid was excused. I'll just ask you a few brief 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:35.720 questions if you're ready for here. You've been hearing your 0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:38.640 own evidence again, Megan, and the questions that you were 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:43.440 asked by John's lawyer Craig Leggatt some very pointed questions 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:48.760 at times, and challenges to your own memory and even credibility. 0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:50.800 What's it been like to go through that. 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:53.840 I'm reliving the whole thing all over again. 0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:55.200 One of the. 0:15:55.760 --> 0:16:02.200 More striking parts of the cross examination related to your 0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:07.440 assertion that John had told you that he had seen Bromman, 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:11.600 presumably in Brisbane, and that he had told broman don't 0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:15.120 come back. You're not welcome back. Do you remember the 0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:16.960 original conversation with John. 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:21.200 John used to regularly come up with sightings from the 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:25.640 commune and blah blah blah. But this time I remember 0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:29.840 that I was very wary of him. He was very, 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:32.760 very strange at that time, and I told him I 0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:34.920 was leaving and he had to go. 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:39.720 Meghan said that the disclosure from John occurred when she 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:43.360 was holidaying with her children at her parents' apartment in 0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:48.120 the Focus Building in Surface Paradise. It was nineteen ninety four. 0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:52.960 John came to visit with Lauren and Crystal. He stayed 0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:57.160 for several days. Meghan has previously told me that John 0:16:57.360 --> 0:16:59.080 outstayed his welcome. 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:02.320 I sat down on the bed where I had my 0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:03.600 suitcase as I was packing it. 0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:05.840 I can remember this so distinctly. 0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:09.560 And he told me that he knew where Bromin was, 0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:13.760 and he said that she had been found by the 0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:16.320 police at Brisbane Showground. 0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:18.920 My response was great. 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:21.520 Because we're in Stuffy's paradise, Let's get in the car 0:17:21.560 --> 0:17:25.920 and go straight away and see her. And he said, no, 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:29.480 he'd already done that, he'd seen her, and he had 0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:32.800 told her that after what she had done to him 0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:37.040 and the children by leaving him and leaving her children 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:40.840 and not ever bothering to be in contact, that he 0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:42.080 didn't want her back. 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:44.040 She could stay with the Sugar Daddy. 0:17:44.720 --> 0:17:48.080 After that, I never ever spoke to John or saw 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:48.720 him again. 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:51.720 Apart from the inquest, there is. 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:56.720 Also timing inconsistency. In the previous episode, you heard a 0:17:56.800 --> 0:18:00.680 reference to me and John about these matters in nineteen 0:18:00.800 --> 0:18:04.520 ninety seven, as that is what is in Meghan's nineteen 0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:09.000 ninety eight statement, but Meghan is adamant that that's a mistake. 0:18:09.200 --> 0:18:13.160 In her statement, she is sure that she stopped talking 0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:16.879 to John in nineteen ninety four, around the time that 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:21.920 she says John claimed he saw Bromwin alive and well 0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:22.720 in Brisbane. 0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:25.439 On any thing it happened in nineteen ninety seven, was 0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:26.760 my divorce came thrue? 0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:29.840 Were you skeptical about what John had told you? 0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:33.040 I thought it was a lie. It was an absolute lie. 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:37.119 I don't believe for heartbeat that he's been up to 0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:38.280 Brisbane and seen her. 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:43.320 John's lawyer did put to you that this must have 0:18:43.400 --> 0:18:48.520 been falsehood, an eer, something you've exaggerated or made up. 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:54.720 Why is this extraordinary revelation from John, whether false or true, 0:18:55.240 --> 0:18:59.520 not in your statement that was taken four years prior 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:02.240 to you giving evidence at the inquest. Why is it 0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:04.600 missing from that? Wouldn't it have been some of you 0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:07.640 wanted Glen tale to know. John told me this as well, 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:10.320 He's actually seen romin well. 0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:14.120 I have called the police so many times to tell 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:17.720 them what John had told me many times, and nobody. 0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:18.080 Will talk to me. 0:19:18.359 --> 0:19:20.679 We're not talking about that period. 0:19:20.760 --> 0:19:24.320 We're talking now about the nineteen ninety eight written statement. 0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:30.040 As far as I was concerned, it was no different 0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:32.720 apart from the fact that he said he saw then 0:19:33.200 --> 0:19:36.360 the other times had he told me that she had 0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:40.280 definitely been found, I definitely broughted it to the police. 0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:45.600 Megan also recalled that when her nineteen ninety eight statement 0:19:45.840 --> 0:19:48.920 was taken, she was sitting with her mother Leah and 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:52.440 her father John Reid at their house in Sydney where 0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:53.680 they met Glen Taylor. 0:19:54.359 --> 0:19:58.080 There was myself and my parents sitting at a table 0:19:58.480 --> 0:20:02.720 with Glen Taylor and Timby with a manual typewriter. 0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:04.440 It wasn't a recorded interview. 0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:05.840 It wasn't structured. 0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:09.920 I didn't say much because Dad did most of the talking, 0:20:10.280 --> 0:20:11.320 because that's my dad. 0:20:11.920 --> 0:20:15.439 I don't believe that in any of Andy's evidence or 0:20:15.480 --> 0:20:19.600 in his statement, there's any suggestion that he heard from 0:20:19.640 --> 0:20:23.480 you that John had told you that he had seen 0:20:23.600 --> 0:20:26.760 Bromwin and told her stay away, don't come back. 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:29.800 Everything I've ever said to Andrew seems to have gone 0:20:29.800 --> 0:20:31.040 in one ear and out the other. 0:20:31.640 --> 0:20:33.840 I don't think she's taken me seriously. 0:20:33.520 --> 0:20:37.520 At all, and she's sure that she told Andy at 0:20:37.560 --> 0:20:38.360 the time. 0:20:39.000 --> 0:20:41.159 And The only reason that I know that I did 0:20:41.320 --> 0:20:44.440 definitely called him is that I have the phone record, but. 0:20:44.480 --> 0:20:46.320 Me all that shows as you called him. 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:50.840 Yeah, but that's so unusual, especially back then, because he 0:20:50.960 --> 0:20:53.040 didn't seem to want to hear from me at all. 0:20:53.480 --> 0:20:58.240 He formed a view that you were being milked by 0:20:58.400 --> 0:21:01.960 John for information, information that Andy had shared with you, 0:21:02.800 --> 0:21:06.439 and he was suggesting in his evidence that John was 0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:12.000 cunningly milking you for police information about what police were 0:21:12.119 --> 0:21:14.680 trying to follow up and wor suspecting and so on. 0:21:15.200 --> 0:21:16.040 What do you say to that? 0:21:16.840 --> 0:21:18.680 Oh, I find that ludicrous. 0:21:19.240 --> 0:21:22.040 What could he milk me for? I didn't know anything. 0:21:22.600 --> 0:21:25.119 I know what he's saying, but I don't understand why 0:21:25.160 --> 0:21:25.919 he would think that. 0:21:27.000 --> 0:21:30.439 Is it possible that in your conversations with John you 0:21:30.640 --> 0:21:37.760 have unintentionally imparted information provided to you by Andy, which 0:21:37.800 --> 0:21:40.399 Andy had gleaned from Discon's investigation. 0:21:41.359 --> 0:21:45.800 Absolutely out of the question. We never spoke about Bromwin ever. 0:21:46.359 --> 0:21:50.040 It was only about the children, what to cook for dinner, 0:21:50.200 --> 0:21:53.480 stuff like that. My discussions for John were not about 0:21:53.480 --> 0:21:59.000 Bromwin unless he specifically brought her up. Now, I don't 0:21:59.040 --> 0:22:00.800 understand Andrew, we thought that. 0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:02.560 Why didn't he talk to me about it? 0:22:03.000 --> 0:22:05.040 I know he told the police not to speak to me. 0:22:05.800 --> 0:22:07.600