1 00:00:05,921 --> 00:00:07,281 Speaker 1: Approche production. 2 00:00:10,161 --> 00:00:14,641 Speaker 2: This podcast contains discussion of child sexual assault and psychological trauma. 3 00:00:15,041 --> 00:00:18,881 Speaker 2: It's not recommended for younger listeners and discretion is advised. 4 00:00:24,041 --> 00:00:26,161 Speaker 2: Welcome to Real Crime with Adam Shand. I'm your host 5 00:00:26,241 --> 00:00:30,121 Speaker 2: Adam Shand. We talk a lot about victim centric justice 6 00:00:30,161 --> 00:00:34,121 Speaker 2: in Australia, about prioritizing the needs and experiences of those 7 00:00:34,201 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 2: harmed by crime and facilitating healing, support and empowerment through 8 00:00:39,441 --> 00:00:40,641 Speaker 2: the justice system. 9 00:00:41,161 --> 00:00:43,641 Speaker 1: The federal government has been accused of dragging its feet 10 00:00:43,681 --> 00:00:46,601 Speaker 1: on closing a loophole that allows convicted child abuses to 11 00:00:46,641 --> 00:00:50,681 Speaker 1: protect their assets and superannuation, leaving survivors without compensation. 12 00:00:52,641 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 2: Unfortunately, the talk does not always match the walk, especially 13 00:00:56,881 --> 00:01:00,041 Speaker 2: when it comes to the victims of child sexual abuse. 14 00:01:00,761 --> 00:01:04,481 Speaker 3: South Australian survivor Eden Van Harron was awarded one point 15 00:01:04,521 --> 00:01:07,801 Speaker 3: four million million dollars in damages, but he hasn't seen 16 00:01:07,881 --> 00:01:08,321 Speaker 3: a cent. 17 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:13,481 Speaker 2: We've definitely gotten better at catching these vile perpetrators, but 18 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:16,681 Speaker 2: in my opinion, we let them out too soon. When 19 00:01:16,721 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 2: it comes to properly compensating survivors, there is a very 20 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:22,881 Speaker 2: long way to go. I wonder how many of you 21 00:01:23,041 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 2: know that scores of pedophiles have been allowed to hide 22 00:01:26,241 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 2: their assets, especially in superannuation, to defeat efforts by their 23 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:35,081 Speaker 2: victims to sue them for compensation. The Treasury has been 24 00:01:35,121 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 2: considering reforms since twenty eighteen, but five years on the 25 00:01:40,081 --> 00:01:46,121 Speaker 2: loophole remains open. There's apparently bipartisan support for closing this loophole. 26 00:01:46,721 --> 00:01:50,001 Speaker 2: In twenty eighteen, the federal government identified this issue as 27 00:01:50,041 --> 00:01:55,761 Speaker 2: a priority, but surprise, surprise, nothing has changed. My guest 28 00:01:55,761 --> 00:01:58,481 Speaker 2: today has been described as the most hated man by 29 00:01:58,521 --> 00:02:04,121 Speaker 2: Australian child sex offenders, a worthy title. Indeed, Adelaide lawyer 30 00:02:04,161 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 2: Andrew Carpenter has dedicated himself to pursuing the assets of pedophiles. 31 00:02:09,401 --> 00:02:12,441 Speaker 2: He's part of the super for Survivor's team that is 32 00:02:12,481 --> 00:02:16,441 Speaker 2: demanding the Federal government reform the Bankruptcy Act so the 33 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:20,841 Speaker 2: child sex offenders superannuation can be used to help victims 34 00:02:20,841 --> 00:02:25,321 Speaker 2: and survivors rebuild their lives. And Andrew Carpenter joins me out. 35 00:02:25,321 --> 00:02:27,800 Speaker 3: Welcome Andrew, Hey, Adam, thanks for having on to have 36 00:02:27,841 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 3: this uncomfortable conversation. 37 00:02:29,721 --> 00:02:32,881 Speaker 2: It's uncomfortable but very very necessary. How did you get 38 00:02:32,921 --> 00:02:34,521 Speaker 2: involved in this area of the law. You're not a 39 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:35,201 Speaker 2: criminal lawyer. 40 00:02:36,401 --> 00:02:38,601 Speaker 3: No I'm not, and I'm not a survivor of sexual 41 00:02:38,641 --> 00:02:40,561 Speaker 3: abuse as well. So when I got my first job 42 00:02:40,601 --> 00:02:44,041 Speaker 3: at a law firm, I just like every other graduate, 43 00:02:44,081 --> 00:02:46,201 Speaker 3: you sent him to do the jobs and the files 44 00:02:46,201 --> 00:02:48,441 Speaker 3: and other people don't want to touch. And the first 45 00:02:48,441 --> 00:02:51,121 Speaker 3: file that I got given was effectively a survival child 46 00:02:51,121 --> 00:02:54,881 Speaker 3: sexual abuse out to claim. And I saw the hardships 47 00:02:54,921 --> 00:02:58,921 Speaker 3: and how the legal system wasn't supportive of victim survivors, 48 00:02:59,481 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 3: and back in twenty eleven, I just thought, you know what, 49 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 3: I might as well run with these files and try 50 00:03:04,481 --> 00:03:06,441 Speaker 3: the voice of the voiceless and to try to make 51 00:03:06,561 --> 00:03:08,721 Speaker 3: change and also to make sure that these people finally 52 00:03:08,721 --> 00:03:09,761 Speaker 3: got the justice they deserve. 53 00:03:10,441 --> 00:03:12,241 Speaker 2: How many people are we talking about here that have 54 00:03:12,481 --> 00:03:16,441 Speaker 2: taken advantage of this loophole to defeat compensation efforts by 55 00:03:16,481 --> 00:03:17,361 Speaker 2: their victims. 56 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:21,081 Speaker 3: Well, anyone that's works since nineteen eighty five will have superannuation. 57 00:03:21,361 --> 00:03:24,681 Speaker 3: And what we see in the very rare circumstances where 58 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:28,081 Speaker 3: people secure a conviction against their offenders, by that time, 59 00:03:28,081 --> 00:03:30,601 Speaker 3: they've capitulated their assets, they've sold their house, they've spent 60 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:34,041 Speaker 3: all their money paying lawyer's fees, and more often than not, 61 00:03:34,121 --> 00:03:36,681 Speaker 3: these individuals are above the preservation age, so above fifty 62 00:03:36,681 --> 00:03:41,321 Speaker 3: five years old, so they can use everything, declare bankruptcy 63 00:03:41,841 --> 00:03:44,601 Speaker 3: and then their supernuation will be able to keep them 64 00:03:44,601 --> 00:03:46,121 Speaker 3: afloat for the rest of their life or while their 65 00:03:46,201 --> 00:03:47,881 Speaker 3: s divivors can't touch anything. 66 00:03:48,921 --> 00:03:52,841 Speaker 2: Meanwhile, the state and the individuals have to shoulder the 67 00:03:52,881 --> 00:03:57,681 Speaker 2: cost of their rehabilitation, their return to health if you like. 68 00:03:57,961 --> 00:04:01,641 Speaker 2: After these henous offenses, they're left on their own well's. 69 00:04:01,641 --> 00:04:05,641 Speaker 3: Effectively, the taxpayer has been indemnifying child sex offenders decades. 70 00:04:05,921 --> 00:04:08,281 Speaker 3: There was a Brave Heart study back in twenty sixteen 71 00:04:08,321 --> 00:04:10,401 Speaker 3: that said that the annual cost of the Australian government 72 00:04:10,721 --> 00:04:13,041 Speaker 3: could be in a vicinity of thirty point one billion 73 00:04:13,081 --> 00:04:15,521 Speaker 3: dollars per year. Now, if you look at the budget 74 00:04:15,521 --> 00:04:18,201 Speaker 3: that came down this year was thirty one billion dollars 75 00:04:18,601 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 3: for the cost to run the entire government, and that 76 00:04:20,961 --> 00:04:26,521 Speaker 3: includes wages, super buildings, security, everything that needs to run 77 00:04:26,561 --> 00:04:29,561 Speaker 3: the federal government or the government included that thirty one 78 00:04:29,561 --> 00:04:34,561 Speaker 3: billion dollars and the fact that victim survivors do not 79 00:04:34,681 --> 00:04:37,361 Speaker 3: get the readers they deserve, and the tax payer continues 80 00:04:37,361 --> 00:04:42,481 Speaker 3: to meet the costs associated with Centerlink PBS medicare, psychological visits, 81 00:04:42,481 --> 00:04:46,241 Speaker 3: GP visits, all of that, and the victim survivors often 82 00:04:46,601 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 3: most likely can never recover that. 83 00:04:48,201 --> 00:04:49,121 Speaker 1: From the offenders. 84 00:04:49,281 --> 00:04:50,961 Speaker 3: It's just some of the taxpayers had to meet the 85 00:04:51,001 --> 00:04:54,361 Speaker 3: cost of and it's about time that the taxpayers band 86 00:04:54,361 --> 00:04:57,361 Speaker 3: together and say, no, we are not going to indemnify 87 00:04:57,801 --> 00:05:00,121 Speaker 3: pedophiles for their heinous crimes. 88 00:05:00,681 --> 00:05:03,521 Speaker 2: You've been at this for what fourteen to fifteen years now, 89 00:05:04,201 --> 00:05:05,041 Speaker 2: nothing's happened. 90 00:05:05,601 --> 00:05:06,561 Speaker 1: No, why is that? 91 00:05:06,681 --> 00:05:09,881 Speaker 2: Are there no votes in this It's clearly improper. It's 92 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:13,001 Speaker 2: somewhat evil to allow this loophole to exist. 93 00:05:13,401 --> 00:05:15,641 Speaker 3: It is why I first heard about it in twenty eighteen. 94 00:05:15,721 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 3: My mother used to work in evanuation and she knew 95 00:05:18,561 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 3: I was dealing in this area. And as soon as 96 00:05:20,481 --> 00:05:22,401 Speaker 3: I heard that from her, I thought, great, the liberal 97 00:05:22,401 --> 00:05:25,801 Speaker 3: government will do this. But by the time twenty twenty here, 98 00:05:26,281 --> 00:05:28,641 Speaker 3: I took my oldest child to child care for the 99 00:05:28,681 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 3: first time and all hit home that I have to 100 00:05:30,561 --> 00:05:33,241 Speaker 3: try and trust other people with my child. And that's 101 00:05:33,241 --> 00:05:35,361 Speaker 3: when I thought, you know what, this isn't a problem 102 00:05:35,361 --> 00:05:38,281 Speaker 3: you can arrest out of the Statistics of conviction are horrible. 103 00:05:38,521 --> 00:05:40,600 Speaker 3: It's one in three girls and one in five boys 104 00:05:40,721 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 3: or endured child sexual abuse all the age of eighteen. 105 00:05:43,401 --> 00:05:45,121 Speaker 3: So what can I do to at least deter this 106 00:05:45,161 --> 00:05:47,081 Speaker 3: in the front tend And I thought, you know, just 107 00:05:47,121 --> 00:05:49,561 Speaker 3: like everyone that has anyone that has drivers last as, 108 00:05:49,561 --> 00:05:51,601 Speaker 3: for instance, no one cares about demerit points. You're not 109 00:05:51,681 --> 00:05:53,281 Speaker 3: using your phone in the car because you don't want 110 00:05:53,281 --> 00:05:56,401 Speaker 3: to find So I thought, at least deterring this upfront 111 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:58,641 Speaker 3: of something that I could do. I've seen that, say 112 00:05:58,641 --> 00:06:02,481 Speaker 3: the atricalceed they've stopped doing convictions against directors, they're finding them, 113 00:06:02,681 --> 00:06:05,840 Speaker 3: and insolvent trading and all kinds of white collar crimes 114 00:06:05,841 --> 00:06:08,561 Speaker 3: like that have gone down. So I started in twenty 115 00:06:08,601 --> 00:06:11,801 Speaker 3: twenty with the Super Savivors campaign. I started lobbing to 116 00:06:11,801 --> 00:06:15,041 Speaker 3: the Liberal government then, who advised in twenty twenty one 117 00:06:15,201 --> 00:06:17,881 Speaker 3: on a current affair that if they're re elected they 118 00:06:17,961 --> 00:06:20,401 Speaker 3: will try to put this into power. But obviously they 119 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:23,401 Speaker 3: weren't re elected. Labor has basically remained silent on this 120 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:26,361 Speaker 3: for almost two terms now. But what the Labor governments 121 00:06:26,401 --> 00:06:30,361 Speaker 3: effectively said is we will never touch superannuation. Yet they 122 00:06:30,401 --> 00:06:34,081 Speaker 3: have started taxing superannuation. So I spoke about the budget 123 00:06:34,081 --> 00:06:37,881 Speaker 3: before twenty five billion dollars of revenue in the budget 124 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:41,081 Speaker 3: from last year came from the taxation of superannuation. Yet 125 00:06:41,401 --> 00:06:43,081 Speaker 3: the Labor government do not want to go after the 126 00:06:43,121 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 3: super of child sex offenders, which basically to me shows 127 00:06:45,761 --> 00:06:48,841 Speaker 3: that they'd much rather tax hard work in Australians than 128 00:06:48,921 --> 00:06:52,281 Speaker 3: go after the supernuation of pedophiles. So I don't know 129 00:06:52,361 --> 00:06:54,161 Speaker 3: for the life of me, White hasn't been passed. It's 130 00:06:54,201 --> 00:06:56,481 Speaker 3: a no brainer and the only people that would be 131 00:06:56,481 --> 00:06:58,721 Speaker 3: against this law change would be the pedophiles themselves. 132 00:06:59,481 --> 00:07:01,361 Speaker 2: It's right. And let's look at some of the examples 133 00:07:01,361 --> 00:07:05,521 Speaker 2: of this. You had your former longer serving registrate in 134 00:07:05,561 --> 00:07:09,041 Speaker 2: South Australia, Peter Liddy, was sentenced to twenty five years 135 00:07:09,121 --> 00:07:12,121 Speaker 2: jail with a non parole of eighteen years for sexually 136 00:07:12,121 --> 00:07:14,881 Speaker 2: abusing children at a surf life saving club in the eighties. 137 00:07:15,801 --> 00:07:20,241 Speaker 2: He managed to put his super beyond the reach of survivors. 138 00:07:21,361 --> 00:07:23,281 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, so when he was sentenced, he was a 139 00:07:23,321 --> 00:07:25,721 Speaker 3: single guy, and he had a mansion in the Wine 140 00:07:25,721 --> 00:07:28,521 Speaker 3: region here in South Australia, and he collected all kinds 141 00:07:28,521 --> 00:07:32,201 Speaker 3: of weird historical artifacts like suits of armor and pirate 142 00:07:32,321 --> 00:07:35,601 Speaker 3: displayed old handguns. And yet when he was caught with this. 143 00:07:35,721 --> 00:07:38,921 Speaker 3: When he went to prison, all of his assets disappeared. 144 00:07:39,081 --> 00:07:40,881 Speaker 3: No one knows where they went, no one knows who 145 00:07:40,961 --> 00:07:44,801 Speaker 3: took them. But despite being worth millions, it was the 146 00:07:44,841 --> 00:07:46,401 Speaker 3: taxpayer that had to meet the cost. All of his 147 00:07:46,481 --> 00:07:50,281 Speaker 3: victors survivors got ten thousand dollars each from a taxpayer 148 00:07:50,321 --> 00:07:53,681 Speaker 3: funded all the bits a prime fund. Yet he was 149 00:07:53,721 --> 00:07:56,921 Speaker 3: a government worker before nineteen eighty seven, so the old 150 00:07:56,921 --> 00:07:58,841 Speaker 3: defined benefit scheme, if you went to the government for 151 00:07:58,881 --> 00:08:01,921 Speaker 3: more than twenty years before nineteen eighty seven, you retired 152 00:08:01,961 --> 00:08:06,321 Speaker 3: on eighty percent of your income. Effectively sitting in prison 153 00:08:06,361 --> 00:08:08,561 Speaker 3: since two thousand and one earning eighty percent of the 154 00:08:08,601 --> 00:08:11,801 Speaker 3: magistrate's wage. And when it gets out, his victim survivors 155 00:08:11,801 --> 00:08:13,761 Speaker 3: cannot go after him for anything because all of its 156 00:08:13,801 --> 00:08:16,801 Speaker 3: money is paid into superannuation and he can't be touched. 157 00:08:17,681 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 2: Remember the Gypsy Joker President Steve Williams. I was actually 158 00:08:20,881 --> 00:08:24,321 Speaker 2: in Adelaide in two thousand and five, just after he disappeared, 159 00:08:24,681 --> 00:08:26,361 Speaker 2: and one of the things he did was he was 160 00:08:26,401 --> 00:08:29,241 Speaker 2: in touch with somebody who actually robbed Liddy's house of 161 00:08:29,281 --> 00:08:31,321 Speaker 2: a number of these artifacts and were trying to sell. 162 00:08:31,521 --> 00:08:34,361 Speaker 2: Steve was going to sell them on behalf of the victims. 163 00:08:34,721 --> 00:08:37,001 Speaker 2: That's where it got to because the state wasn't going 164 00:08:37,001 --> 00:08:40,441 Speaker 2: to do anything about compensating the victims. So I find 165 00:08:40,441 --> 00:08:42,761 Speaker 2: it kind of heenous that here you are a lawyer 166 00:08:43,081 --> 00:08:46,241 Speaker 2: advocating on behalf of victims. There are other lawyers who 167 00:08:46,281 --> 00:08:50,561 Speaker 2: make their daily bread from helping these heenous offenders hide 168 00:08:50,601 --> 00:08:51,441 Speaker 2: their assets. 169 00:08:52,081 --> 00:08:54,201 Speaker 3: Well, it's not the lawyers that are hiring the assets, 170 00:08:54,201 --> 00:08:56,121 Speaker 3: and the fact that when these guys go to prison, 171 00:08:56,481 --> 00:08:59,521 Speaker 3: they're told by other inmates who do the exact same 172 00:08:59,561 --> 00:09:02,201 Speaker 3: thing as to what to do, So lawyers aren't actually 173 00:09:02,281 --> 00:09:04,041 Speaker 3: going out and say you should do this. It's the 174 00:09:04,041 --> 00:09:06,241 Speaker 3: fact that all of these affens a coupled in the 175 00:09:06,321 --> 00:09:09,681 Speaker 3: jail together or in protective custody and they're basically trading 176 00:09:09,681 --> 00:09:12,241 Speaker 3: more stories, telling each other how to hide assets. Or 177 00:09:12,281 --> 00:09:15,481 Speaker 3: the most grotesque thing is they're telling individuals who are 178 00:09:15,481 --> 00:09:17,921 Speaker 3: about to get released that there's a woman in this 179 00:09:18,001 --> 00:09:19,961 Speaker 3: street in South Australia. If you give one hundred dollars, 180 00:09:20,321 --> 00:09:23,001 Speaker 3: she'll let you with their children's for an hour. It's 181 00:09:23,001 --> 00:09:25,801 Speaker 3: the fact that if these individuals start putting in general population, 182 00:09:26,761 --> 00:09:29,281 Speaker 3: you see a lot of more people be too scared 183 00:09:29,281 --> 00:09:31,561 Speaker 3: to go back into prison because there was a recent 184 00:09:31,601 --> 00:09:33,841 Speaker 3: study a while ago. It's the reason why child sex 185 00:09:33,841 --> 00:09:36,521 Speaker 3: offenders are hated in prison. It's not by virtue of 186 00:09:36,521 --> 00:09:38,841 Speaker 3: their crimes. It's the fact that a large percentage of 187 00:09:38,841 --> 00:09:41,761 Speaker 3: people in prison were actually victim survivors of childhood sex 188 00:09:41,801 --> 00:09:42,721 Speaker 3: with the views themselves. 189 00:09:43,681 --> 00:09:46,601 Speaker 2: I mean, what's the impact on the people that you 190 00:09:46,761 --> 00:09:50,241 Speaker 2: deal with when they look at the costs of what's 191 00:09:50,281 --> 00:09:52,961 Speaker 2: been done to them. How do they feel when they 192 00:09:53,001 --> 00:09:57,441 Speaker 2: can see these individuals defeating there If it's a compensation, 193 00:09:57,561 --> 00:09:59,441 Speaker 2: how does it feel for them? 194 00:09:59,721 --> 00:10:03,401 Speaker 3: Well, for the victims survivor's standpoint, there's no good behavior bond, 195 00:10:03,401 --> 00:10:06,241 Speaker 3: there's no early release for good behavior. There's no suspended sentence. 196 00:10:06,281 --> 00:10:09,401 Speaker 3: Their trauma is a life sentence. Brother b who the 197 00:10:09,401 --> 00:10:12,241 Speaker 3: part of the mass brothers, it's very brave brothers that 198 00:10:12,321 --> 00:10:13,641 Speaker 3: confronted their abuser in court. 199 00:10:13,641 --> 00:10:14,681 Speaker 1: He summed up perfectly. 200 00:10:14,721 --> 00:10:18,001 Speaker 3: He said years ago that it's like you've dropped a 201 00:10:18,081 --> 00:10:21,361 Speaker 3: vase on the ground and it's smashed one thousand pieces. Yes, 202 00:10:21,481 --> 00:10:24,841 Speaker 3: you can go it back together, but the scars remained forever. 203 00:10:25,281 --> 00:10:27,961 Speaker 3: So many of the people that I deal with, they 204 00:10:27,961 --> 00:10:30,841 Speaker 3: can't work, can never work. Can't have partners. I've had 205 00:10:30,841 --> 00:10:33,081 Speaker 3: people that can't even leave the house. I've had some 206 00:10:33,161 --> 00:10:36,001 Speaker 3: that they give up on their weekly groceries to afford 207 00:10:36,041 --> 00:10:39,201 Speaker 3: their medication because they can't function without it. All whilst 208 00:10:39,241 --> 00:10:42,561 Speaker 3: all the offenders have freehold houses in their self managed 209 00:10:42,561 --> 00:10:45,401 Speaker 3: super fund, and yet it's a burden that goes onto 210 00:10:45,441 --> 00:10:49,081 Speaker 3: the tax payer. Offen often wondered why the Labor government 211 00:10:49,081 --> 00:10:51,521 Speaker 3: doesn't want to pass this. I mean, I'm not shedding 212 00:10:51,561 --> 00:10:53,801 Speaker 3: light on them because liberals had it did nothing as well. 213 00:10:54,281 --> 00:10:56,601 Speaker 3: But the reason why they're not passing it is what 214 00:10:56,641 --> 00:10:59,401 Speaker 3: they advised in an interview was that the cost of 215 00:10:59,441 --> 00:11:02,241 Speaker 3: the public of putting offenders in the old age pension 216 00:11:02,281 --> 00:11:05,961 Speaker 3: is too much. I've said, but you're literally making the 217 00:11:06,041 --> 00:11:09,281 Speaker 3: taxpayer meet the cost of someone from eighteen to life 218 00:11:09,681 --> 00:11:11,921 Speaker 3: instead of from sixty seven to I think the national 219 00:11:11,921 --> 00:11:16,121 Speaker 3: average age is eighty two eighty three, and so you're 220 00:11:16,121 --> 00:11:20,201 Speaker 3: capitulating millions of dollars on victors of drivers. Yet there's 221 00:11:20,241 --> 00:11:24,241 Speaker 3: too worried about someone from God on the age pension. 222 00:11:24,281 --> 00:11:26,321 Speaker 3: It just doesn't make sense. And if you think if 223 00:11:26,361 --> 00:11:29,281 Speaker 3: a victim survivor has a lump sum upfront, they could 224 00:11:29,321 --> 00:11:33,601 Speaker 3: go off and get the specialist psychatch treatment they need 225 00:11:33,641 --> 00:11:36,681 Speaker 3: to actually assimilate back into society. They could then finish school, 226 00:11:36,721 --> 00:11:38,601 Speaker 3: they could work, they could get a job, they could 227 00:11:38,921 --> 00:11:42,041 Speaker 3: start a family. But instead a lot of these people 228 00:11:42,081 --> 00:11:45,721 Speaker 3: that are living in poverty because of something that happened 229 00:11:45,761 --> 00:11:47,241 Speaker 3: to them, which is not their fault at all. 230 00:11:47,761 --> 00:11:49,281 Speaker 2: And mean still, in the case of Lyddy, there were 231 00:11:49,281 --> 00:11:52,201 Speaker 2: I think there were seven claims for damages launched by 232 00:11:52,201 --> 00:11:55,761 Speaker 2: his victims. They were all later dropped because there was 233 00:11:55,841 --> 00:11:58,001 Speaker 2: virtually nothing left of his estate they could get to 234 00:11:58,601 --> 00:12:02,001 Speaker 2: and they got ten thousand dollars each. That was all. 235 00:12:02,841 --> 00:12:05,681 Speaker 2: It's just a try. It barely covers the life legal fees. 236 00:12:06,201 --> 00:12:08,241 Speaker 3: Yeah, it doesn't cover the legal fees at all. There 237 00:12:08,241 --> 00:12:10,081 Speaker 3: were seven at the start, and I believe in about 238 00:12:10,081 --> 00:12:12,921 Speaker 3: two thousand and nine there was another trance of survivors 239 00:12:12,921 --> 00:12:16,441 Speaker 3: that came forward, but Peter led his lawyers successfully argued 240 00:12:16,441 --> 00:12:18,521 Speaker 3: for a permanent stay of the action because they're said, 241 00:12:18,521 --> 00:12:21,681 Speaker 3: by virtue of his crimes, everyone knows who is in 242 00:12:21,721 --> 00:12:24,401 Speaker 3: South Australia and he could get a fair trial because 243 00:12:24,441 --> 00:12:27,041 Speaker 3: any single person that's on the jury would know what 244 00:12:27,121 --> 00:12:29,801 Speaker 3: he's like. And you think if he's sitting on four 245 00:12:29,881 --> 00:12:33,641 Speaker 3: or five million dollars in cerpanuation in prison and it 246 00:12:33,681 --> 00:12:34,281 Speaker 3: can't be touched. 247 00:12:34,321 --> 00:12:34,841 Speaker 1: It's insane. 248 00:12:34,881 --> 00:12:36,561 Speaker 3: There was a I did want to get to another 249 00:12:36,601 --> 00:12:40,001 Speaker 3: monster here a few years ago, and he had seven 250 00:12:40,121 --> 00:12:43,201 Speaker 3: hundred and fifty thousand dollars in cerpnuation and he was 251 00:12:43,241 --> 00:12:46,761 Speaker 3: burning two hundred and fifty dollars a week in prison 252 00:12:47,161 --> 00:12:50,921 Speaker 3: on chocolate bars, newspapers, soft drinks. So in his sentence 253 00:12:50,961 --> 00:12:54,241 Speaker 3: he can legally capitulate two hundred and fifty thousand dollars 254 00:12:54,761 --> 00:12:57,841 Speaker 3: of his money in his sentence just on snacks. Yet 255 00:12:57,961 --> 00:13:00,521 Speaker 3: his victory survivors can't touch him. And I just don't 256 00:13:00,561 --> 00:13:02,521 Speaker 3: know why that. The Labor government said a while ago 257 00:13:02,561 --> 00:13:06,121 Speaker 3: they'll never touch the supernuation laws at all, but I 258 00:13:06,161 --> 00:13:08,721 Speaker 3: reminded them it was during COVID. It was no less 259 00:13:08,761 --> 00:13:12,601 Speaker 3: than ten days where the Liberal government at that stage 260 00:13:12,801 --> 00:13:15,281 Speaker 3: and now it's the people get access a superpnuation to 261 00:13:15,321 --> 00:13:17,521 Speaker 3: meet the cost of living due to the pandemic. And 262 00:13:17,561 --> 00:13:20,881 Speaker 3: then the Labor government when they got in, they started 263 00:13:20,961 --> 00:13:23,121 Speaker 3: taxing people at the start that had more than three 264 00:13:23,161 --> 00:13:26,801 Speaker 3: million in super and then they now issues new legislation 265 00:13:26,841 --> 00:13:30,281 Speaker 3: attacks people with money in super So there obviously can 266 00:13:30,361 --> 00:13:32,681 Speaker 3: touch it. You look at family court for instance, you 267 00:13:32,721 --> 00:13:36,361 Speaker 3: can divide up superpnuation as part of a family lord dispute. 268 00:13:36,641 --> 00:13:38,361 Speaker 3: There are ways and avenues to do it. I just 269 00:13:38,401 --> 00:13:40,161 Speaker 3: don't know, if the life of me, of why these 270 00:13:40,521 --> 00:13:44,361 Speaker 3: government bodies refuse to touch this when it's not going 271 00:13:44,401 --> 00:13:46,921 Speaker 3: to cost the tax payer of cents, it's going to 272 00:13:46,921 --> 00:13:49,481 Speaker 3: deter offending and it's going to compensate bingp to survivors. 273 00:13:49,521 --> 00:13:52,201 Speaker 1: What happened to them? 274 00:13:52,481 --> 00:13:55,921 Speaker 2: Is this the only class of crime where this loophole exists. 275 00:13:57,041 --> 00:13:58,241 Speaker 1: It happens in other areas. 276 00:13:58,321 --> 00:14:01,041 Speaker 3: But one thing that the government was mindful of is 277 00:14:01,041 --> 00:14:03,201 Speaker 3: if they opened the Pandora's box and this, they said, well, 278 00:14:03,241 --> 00:14:06,321 Speaker 3: what other crimes could follow suit? And I said that 279 00:14:06,361 --> 00:14:09,681 Speaker 3: there's no other crime like child sex abuse. The High 280 00:14:09,681 --> 00:14:12,081 Speaker 3: Court have always said that this is an outlier kind 281 00:14:12,121 --> 00:14:15,121 Speaker 3: of offense because there's no legal justification for it. You 282 00:14:15,161 --> 00:14:18,881 Speaker 3: think of with murder, you can argue mitigating factors for murder, 283 00:14:19,321 --> 00:14:22,641 Speaker 3: such as self defense, self defense of another, excessive self defense. 284 00:14:22,681 --> 00:14:25,641 Speaker 3: You can downgate drink driving to say that my mother 285 00:14:25,681 --> 00:14:26,881 Speaker 3: had a heart and sack I had to rush to 286 00:14:26,921 --> 00:14:31,041 Speaker 3: the hospital. Assault, for instance, you can say with adult 287 00:14:31,121 --> 00:14:33,441 Speaker 3: rape you can say that consent with withdrawn halfway through 288 00:14:33,481 --> 00:14:36,361 Speaker 3: the act. But with child sexual abuse there is no 289 00:14:36,521 --> 00:14:40,841 Speaker 3: mitigating factor because a child cannot consent to any sex activity. 290 00:14:41,801 --> 00:14:44,161 Speaker 3: And so this isn't going to be something where it 291 00:14:44,161 --> 00:14:47,041 Speaker 3: opens up the box of every single action that a 292 00:14:47,121 --> 00:14:51,081 Speaker 3: VIC survivor can bring against offenders. This is only designed 293 00:14:51,481 --> 00:14:54,761 Speaker 3: for child sexual abuse because this is all the percentages 294 00:14:54,761 --> 00:14:55,401 Speaker 3: that are disgusting. 295 00:14:55,521 --> 00:14:57,681 Speaker 1: You look, for instance, the conviction rate. 296 00:14:57,761 --> 00:15:00,961 Speaker 3: There's a study from doctor Judy Curtin from a few 297 00:15:01,041 --> 00:15:03,921 Speaker 3: years ago that's said for every one thousand reports of 298 00:15:04,001 --> 00:15:08,281 Speaker 3: child sexual abuse, only one hundred investigator by police siegs 299 00:15:08,361 --> 00:15:11,001 Speaker 3: get convicted and three get overturned on appeal. So that's 300 00:15:11,081 --> 00:15:14,721 Speaker 3: conviction rate of point zero zero three percent per thousand reports. 301 00:15:15,041 --> 00:15:17,001 Speaker 3: And to put that in perspective, I did a talk 302 00:15:17,361 --> 00:15:20,441 Speaker 3: was myself and Grace Tame at the ALA austral Lawyers 303 00:15:20,441 --> 00:15:23,241 Speaker 3: Alliance a few years ago in Law and Victoria, and 304 00:15:23,601 --> 00:15:25,321 Speaker 3: I thought the night before how can I put this 305 00:15:25,361 --> 00:15:27,881 Speaker 3: in real terms? And I said, look, the most trusted 306 00:15:27,921 --> 00:15:30,721 Speaker 3: news source in Australia, and I'm willing to go to 307 00:15:30,761 --> 00:15:33,481 Speaker 3: bat on this. The most trusted news source in Australia 308 00:15:33,521 --> 00:15:36,161 Speaker 3: is Sports Bet. They can pick elections, they can pick 309 00:15:36,201 --> 00:15:39,561 Speaker 3: sports or sporting events. And I said that week, I 310 00:15:39,561 --> 00:15:41,521 Speaker 3: think there was two AFL teams and one was paying 311 00:15:41,561 --> 00:15:43,641 Speaker 3: ten to one odds, And I said, who would put 312 00:15:43,681 --> 00:15:44,961 Speaker 3: your money on this ten to one odd team? 313 00:15:45,001 --> 00:15:46,321 Speaker 1: And everyone said absolutely not. 314 00:15:46,881 --> 00:15:51,601 Speaker 3: The closest statistical equivalent to appoint zero zero three percent 315 00:15:51,641 --> 00:15:56,561 Speaker 3: success rate at that time was Pauline Hanson and Bob 316 00:15:56,681 --> 00:15:58,041 Speaker 3: Catter becoming the next Prime. 317 00:15:57,921 --> 00:15:59,481 Speaker 1: Minister of Australia one hundred and one. 318 00:16:00,001 --> 00:16:02,081 Speaker 3: Now, if you think how remote and unlikely that is 319 00:16:02,081 --> 00:16:05,161 Speaker 3: to happen, you then realize how unlikely and remote it 320 00:16:05,201 --> 00:16:07,561 Speaker 3: is for a victor survived to get conversation. Yet, out 321 00:16:07,601 --> 00:16:11,401 Speaker 3: of fifteen years of law, I think only probably less 322 00:16:11,401 --> 00:16:14,321 Speaker 3: than ten of the matters that I've won have resulted 323 00:16:14,361 --> 00:16:17,401 Speaker 3: in a criminal conviction. Almost every single matter I've ever 324 00:16:17,441 --> 00:16:21,881 Speaker 3: had has resolved or succeeded when there's not even a 325 00:16:21,881 --> 00:16:25,041 Speaker 3: criminal charge laid. Because there was a study I think 326 00:16:25,081 --> 00:16:26,881 Speaker 3: it came out of the Royal Commission. It was the average 327 00:16:26,881 --> 00:16:29,681 Speaker 3: time frame it takes report is twenty nine point four years. 328 00:16:30,361 --> 00:16:32,681 Speaker 3: Now if you look, for instance, look at O. J. Simpson, 329 00:16:33,041 --> 00:16:35,761 Speaker 3: everyone knows he've done it. It's clear as day, but 330 00:16:35,801 --> 00:16:38,441 Speaker 3: he got off because there was a bungled prosecution the 331 00:16:38,521 --> 00:16:42,761 Speaker 3: racist police officer. But criminal is beyond reasource doubt. But 332 00:16:42,841 --> 00:16:44,921 Speaker 3: on the civil side of the bounce of probabilities, you 333 00:16:44,961 --> 00:16:46,921 Speaker 3: just have to convince the court that something is likely 334 00:16:46,961 --> 00:16:47,361 Speaker 3: to happen. 335 00:16:47,681 --> 00:16:48,281 Speaker 1: So when O. J. 336 00:16:48,481 --> 00:16:51,801 Speaker 3: Simpson got sued for the death of Nicole Simpson and 337 00:16:51,921 --> 00:16:53,401 Speaker 3: I think it was a waiter at a restaurant called 338 00:16:53,481 --> 00:16:58,361 Speaker 3: Ron from memory Goldman Ron, he was responsible for their deaths. 339 00:16:59,121 --> 00:17:02,241 Speaker 3: And so we're saying that this isn't just Willy Nearly 340 00:17:02,321 --> 00:17:04,041 Speaker 3: you just rock up to an offender and say give 341 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:07,041 Speaker 3: me money. I from your super This legislation is aimed 342 00:17:07,241 --> 00:17:09,440 Speaker 3: to be able to go after a civil judgment or 343 00:17:09,481 --> 00:17:11,801 Speaker 3: a civil settlement. Victims of vivors should be able to 344 00:17:11,801 --> 00:17:14,961 Speaker 3: access supanuation of offenders because there is no similar case 345 00:17:15,001 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 3: in this Because again there is no legal justification as 346 00:17:17,961 --> 00:17:19,360 Speaker 3: sexually assault a child. 347 00:17:19,681 --> 00:17:22,161 Speaker 2: It certainly has a chilling effect on people who would 348 00:17:22,201 --> 00:17:26,160 Speaker 2: consider mounting actions. Look at the case of former Bigger 349 00:17:26,241 --> 00:17:31,281 Speaker 2: Cheese boss Maurice von Ryan, who was convicted of abusing 350 00:17:31,360 --> 00:17:34,281 Speaker 2: nine boys and girls between eight and fifteen. He got 351 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:38,481 Speaker 2: eighteen years or nineteen years in jail and there was 352 00:17:38,521 --> 00:17:40,640 Speaker 2: a compensation claim against him. He was there was an 353 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:43,241 Speaker 2: award a one point four million, but not a cent 354 00:17:43,321 --> 00:17:44,201 Speaker 2: as him paid out. 355 00:17:44,441 --> 00:17:48,761 Speaker 3: Why was that, Well, he declared bankruptcy and so he 356 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 3: was able to sell his house and his cars to 357 00:17:51,521 --> 00:17:54,680 Speaker 3: fund his criminal defense and put all his money into superannuation. 358 00:17:55,241 --> 00:17:58,521 Speaker 3: And you think the director of the biggest cheese company 359 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 3: in Australia worth millions and he doesn't have two cents 360 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:06,281 Speaker 3: to rub together. It's because he knew about loophole. It's 361 00:18:06,321 --> 00:18:09,640 Speaker 3: commonly spoke about by offenders in prisons, and he knew 362 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:12,480 Speaker 3: exactly what to do, how to do it, and his 363 00:18:12,801 --> 00:18:16,001 Speaker 3: victor survivors would never see a scent. But if this 364 00:18:16,281 --> 00:18:19,360 Speaker 3: ail is lifted, victor survivors could then say, right, well, 365 00:18:19,360 --> 00:18:21,521 Speaker 3: he's got ten million dollars in super we should be 366 00:18:21,521 --> 00:18:22,880 Speaker 3: able to have a crack at that because when he 367 00:18:22,921 --> 00:18:25,281 Speaker 3: gets out of prison, all that's going to happen is 368 00:18:25,360 --> 00:18:26,961 Speaker 3: he could access his superguation. 369 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:28,721 Speaker 1: He can live a comfortable life. 370 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:31,200 Speaker 3: I believe at one stage there was a mention of 371 00:18:31,281 --> 00:18:33,281 Speaker 3: him that he owned property in Thailand. 372 00:18:33,681 --> 00:18:34,721 Speaker 1: But again there's. 373 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,481 Speaker 3: Going to be no redress paid out, and you think, 374 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:40,400 Speaker 3: what does go into prison do for bitten survivors. It 375 00:18:40,441 --> 00:18:42,680 Speaker 3: doesn't help them put food on the table, It doesn't 376 00:18:42,681 --> 00:18:45,200 Speaker 3: help them get treatment. They get a poultry. Victors of 377 00:18:45,241 --> 00:18:47,961 Speaker 3: crime claim that maybe will last them for a year 378 00:18:48,001 --> 00:18:52,241 Speaker 3: of food, electricity rent, and then what for the rest 379 00:18:52,241 --> 00:18:56,721 Speaker 3: of their lives until we start setting example of these 380 00:18:56,921 --> 00:19:01,281 Speaker 3: insidious crimes. Once there's a resulting impact and enough stop 381 00:19:01,321 --> 00:19:04,001 Speaker 3: so I start doing weekly videos on my Instagram page 382 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:06,961 Speaker 3: where I detail the percentages of crimes per week they're 383 00:19:06,961 --> 00:19:09,880 Speaker 3: in the District Court of South Australia. There was on 384 00:19:09,921 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 3: average about twenty five percent this week. I think Monday 385 00:19:12,681 --> 00:19:15,881 Speaker 3: was thirty percent, Tuesday was twenty five and today being Friday, 386 00:19:16,321 --> 00:19:18,920 Speaker 3: fifteen out of sixty matters, so twenty five percent of 387 00:19:18,921 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 3: all mattered the District Court of South Australia late to 388 00:19:21,481 --> 00:19:23,561 Speaker 3: the sexual abuse of a child. There was a day 389 00:19:23,681 --> 00:19:27,681 Speaker 3: last November where in one day in South Australia, fifty 390 00:19:27,761 --> 00:19:31,041 Speaker 3: three percent of all matters in court that day late 391 00:19:31,201 --> 00:19:33,801 Speaker 3: child sexual abuse. Yet the number one story of the 392 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 3: news that night was m Green's politician that said that 393 00:19:37,120 --> 00:19:40,041 Speaker 3: the government needed to ban fast food change from being 394 00:19:40,041 --> 00:19:42,561 Speaker 3: built within a kilometer of a school because it posed 395 00:19:42,561 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 3: the danger to children for health reasons. So we've got 396 00:19:45,241 --> 00:19:47,241 Speaker 3: politicians that don't want to talk about this, even though 397 00:19:47,281 --> 00:19:49,160 Speaker 3: it's the showing our treatment studies show that one in 398 00:19:49,241 --> 00:19:51,400 Speaker 3: three girls one in five boys will be sexually abused 399 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 3: for eighteenth birthday. Yet this is not it's not a 400 00:19:54,721 --> 00:19:57,200 Speaker 3: vote getting topic because it's not a topic that's going 401 00:19:57,241 --> 00:19:59,400 Speaker 3: to divide the country. You think this, If they had 402 00:19:59,441 --> 00:20:01,761 Speaker 3: a vote on this, I would be shocked if it 403 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:04,360 Speaker 3: was more than ninety nine percent of people voted for this. 404 00:20:05,241 --> 00:20:07,241 Speaker 2: Agree, I mean, I should correct something. Van Right only 405 00:20:07,241 --> 00:20:10,041 Speaker 2: actually got fourteen years in the end for his crimes 406 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:13,360 Speaker 2: against nine boys and girls. I mean, and when you 407 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:15,681 Speaker 2: look at the award that was made to just one 408 00:20:15,721 --> 00:20:19,120 Speaker 2: of his victims, it looks very reasonable one point four million. 409 00:20:19,360 --> 00:20:21,801 Speaker 2: And you look at the breakdown of that general damages 410 00:20:21,801 --> 00:20:25,281 Speaker 2: of half a million dollars, interest on damages twenty six thousand, 411 00:20:25,681 --> 00:20:28,921 Speaker 2: loss of earningcapacity two and fifty five thousand dollars, interests 412 00:20:28,961 --> 00:20:32,041 Speaker 2: thirty one thousand, past loss of superannuation twenty eight thousand, 413 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:34,080 Speaker 2: and so on and so forth. These all seem like 414 00:20:34,241 --> 00:20:38,160 Speaker 2: very reasonable payments to someone who's last been utterly destroyed 415 00:20:38,201 --> 00:20:42,721 Speaker 2: by a monster. Yet this person is able to evade 416 00:20:42,761 --> 00:20:45,001 Speaker 2: this and with the help. I'll say it again, I'm 417 00:20:45,001 --> 00:20:48,400 Speaker 2: sorry to speak against your fellows in the legal profession, 418 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:50,641 Speaker 2: but they are helping facilitate this as well. You can't 419 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:52,960 Speaker 2: tell me that they aren't saying to their clients, listen, 420 00:20:53,321 --> 00:20:57,321 Speaker 2: let's salvage something from the wreckage here. Because obviously they're families, 421 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:00,200 Speaker 2: they're also innocent victims in some of this as well. 422 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:03,880 Speaker 2: They may need some money in the future despite your crime. 423 00:21:04,001 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 2: So there is an industry about saving these guys superinnuation. 424 00:21:09,521 --> 00:21:11,441 Speaker 3: Yeah, and so that might be the case. I don't 425 00:21:11,441 --> 00:21:13,360 Speaker 3: do criminal also, I don't know what they advise. But 426 00:21:13,761 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 3: the brave individual in the judgment you just referred to, 427 00:21:16,561 --> 00:21:20,241 Speaker 3: he's actually waved his right to anonymity and he's spoken publicly. 428 00:21:20,441 --> 00:21:21,241 Speaker 1: His name's Eden. 429 00:21:21,761 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 3: And luckily for van Rinn, he has been able to 430 00:21:24,761 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 3: at least get a job work part time. But there's 431 00:21:28,120 --> 00:21:30,360 Speaker 3: so many victims of vivors that will never work and 432 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,360 Speaker 3: say someone, there's judgments for people that in their say 433 00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:36,801 Speaker 3: sixties or seventies, yet you know they have never worked 434 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,401 Speaker 3: their entire life. They've been on centiling and if they're 435 00:21:39,481 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 3: commensated for what they could have been earning from ages 436 00:21:42,761 --> 00:21:46,321 Speaker 3: sixteen to retirement age. We're talking four to five million 437 00:21:46,360 --> 00:21:48,681 Speaker 3: dollars here. There's claims that have been easy to say. 438 00:21:48,761 --> 00:21:50,961 Speaker 3: The judgments have been around five or six million dollar mark. 439 00:21:51,321 --> 00:21:54,241 Speaker 3: And that's for when people are completely they have all 440 00:21:54,241 --> 00:21:57,201 Speaker 3: their agency removed. They can't work, can't study. And so 441 00:21:57,521 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 3: these cases where people have their lives ruined, why aren't 442 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:05,121 Speaker 3: they able to then go after the Affentit It just 443 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:08,801 Speaker 3: baffles me as to how this is a conversation that 444 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,281 Speaker 3: we're still having five and a half years after I 445 00:22:11,321 --> 00:22:11,921 Speaker 3: started the law. 446 00:22:12,001 --> 00:22:12,321 Speaker 1: Change it. 447 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 3: To me, there's no rhyme or reason why the government 448 00:22:15,721 --> 00:22:19,360 Speaker 3: hasn't changed this. And I don't know why such a 449 00:22:19,441 --> 00:22:21,321 Speaker 3: topic like this is not dealtly. You look at I 450 00:22:21,321 --> 00:22:23,160 Speaker 3: think the voice for instance, the vote it was what 451 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:27,681 Speaker 3: seventy thirty elections usually you know fifty one to forty 452 00:22:27,761 --> 00:22:31,360 Speaker 3: nine percent. They're all topics that are divisive in nature. 453 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,400 Speaker 3: But this is the one thing that if anyone has children, 454 00:22:34,481 --> 00:22:37,041 Speaker 3: or grandchildren or nieces and nephews, this is the one 455 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,161 Speaker 3: thing you band together because people don't want to see 456 00:22:39,201 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 3: children getting harmed and they don't want to see a 457 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 3: crime where ninety nine point nine to ninety seven cent 458 00:22:44,041 --> 00:22:46,001 Speaker 3: of people get away with it. If you think if 459 00:22:46,721 --> 00:22:49,041 Speaker 3: if one in three girls and one in five boys 460 00:22:49,321 --> 00:22:52,281 Speaker 3: say was it to meth amphetamine? Or was murdered or 461 00:22:52,961 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 3: killed someone driving whilst texting, you watch how quickly the 462 00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,481 Speaker 3: government would change the laws in relation to those crimes. 463 00:23:00,241 --> 00:23:02,160 Speaker 3: We'll look at, for instance, last year domestic violence. It's 464 00:23:02,201 --> 00:23:04,761 Speaker 3: a horrific crime, but you look at the millions of 465 00:23:04,761 --> 00:23:08,121 Speaker 3: people that march around Australia. Domestic violence happens to one 466 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,681 Speaker 3: in six women. You're twice as likely as a woman 467 00:23:10,721 --> 00:23:13,041 Speaker 3: to be sexually abused as a child than you are 468 00:23:13,120 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 3: to be assaulted by a partner. Yet there's radio silence 469 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:18,561 Speaker 3: and all ends from the government relation to these crimes. 470 00:23:18,961 --> 00:23:21,761 Speaker 2: Now in South Australia, we've long heard about the existence 471 00:23:21,801 --> 00:23:25,561 Speaker 2: of the shadowy family, a group of rich and powerful 472 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:29,360 Speaker 2: individuals who protect each other this child sex ring, and 473 00:23:30,120 --> 00:23:33,321 Speaker 2: you look at child sex offending overall, it is in 474 00:23:33,360 --> 00:23:37,041 Speaker 2: the higher socioeconomic strata of our society. Do you think 475 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:40,481 Speaker 2: there is a conspiracy at some level to protect individuals, 476 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:43,561 Speaker 2: particularly in South Australia. 477 00:23:43,761 --> 00:23:45,721 Speaker 3: I mean it is definitely a crime in the higher 478 00:23:45,761 --> 00:23:48,881 Speaker 3: restlant because you look at the sex holidays. Is Icico's take, 479 00:23:48,921 --> 00:23:51,161 Speaker 3: you know, when they're just bearing to Thailand or Southeast 480 00:23:51,201 --> 00:23:54,120 Speaker 3: Asia three or four times a year to commit these offenses. 481 00:23:54,241 --> 00:23:56,720 Speaker 3: It's obviously an added cost. But the hard thing with 482 00:23:56,761 --> 00:23:59,440 Speaker 3: stats is not the strange danger thing that where we 483 00:23:59,441 --> 00:24:02,640 Speaker 3: should be concerned of. It's eighty percent of child abuses incestral, 484 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,001 Speaker 3: and ninety two percent is known to the business of 485 00:24:05,360 --> 00:24:10,640 Speaker 3: whether it's teacher, priest, sports coach, neighbor. I've heard all 486 00:24:10,681 --> 00:24:12,360 Speaker 3: the stories about the family, and I think they were 487 00:24:12,761 --> 00:24:16,001 Speaker 3: eighties and nineties they around, so I remember there was 488 00:24:16,001 --> 00:24:19,680 Speaker 3: a the family murder was Rob Kelvin. It was a 489 00:24:19,721 --> 00:24:23,160 Speaker 3: newsreader's son and that was Spencer von Eman. So it 490 00:24:23,281 --> 00:24:26,200 Speaker 3: was a group of men that would target young boys 491 00:24:26,481 --> 00:24:30,041 Speaker 3: and sexual assault and murder them. I've heard rumblings over 492 00:24:30,041 --> 00:24:33,241 Speaker 3: the years that it was in old boys' homes where 493 00:24:33,281 --> 00:24:35,801 Speaker 3: some of these things took place. But the studies and 494 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:41,680 Speaker 3: the statistics show that it's mainly father's, stepfather's uncles, great grandfather's, grandfathers, 495 00:24:41,681 --> 00:24:42,281 Speaker 3: but mainly. 496 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:43,721 Speaker 1: Stepfather's commit these crimes. 497 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:46,241 Speaker 3: I mean, it wouldn't surprise me if there was still 498 00:24:46,441 --> 00:24:48,880 Speaker 3: the family out there. It was very hard to think 499 00:24:48,921 --> 00:24:52,400 Speaker 3: that organized syndicates would just completely die off. But my 500 00:24:52,561 --> 00:24:55,161 Speaker 3: main focus has always been on the main perpetrators, which 501 00:24:55,201 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 3: are people known to children. So I've always tried to 502 00:24:57,801 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 3: highlight the signs and what people should look for with offenders. 503 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,680 Speaker 1: But this day and age, nothing surprises me. 504 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:11,001 Speaker 2: What did an episode recently with a survivor from Queensland 505 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 2: who was sexually assaulted by her stepfather for the period 506 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:18,561 Speaker 2: of three years. Her mother denied the whole thing was happening, 507 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,001 Speaker 2: swept in under the carpet. She was actually put in 508 00:25:21,001 --> 00:25:23,961 Speaker 2: a foster home for a period of time, and for 509 00:25:24,041 --> 00:25:28,640 Speaker 2: decades she lived with the impacts of all that until 510 00:25:28,681 --> 00:25:31,721 Speaker 2: she decided to get charges against now a very elderly offender. 511 00:25:32,241 --> 00:25:34,241 Speaker 2: It's taken the police two or three years to even 512 00:25:34,281 --> 00:25:37,481 Speaker 2: look at the case. He's in another state. She's tried 513 00:25:37,481 --> 00:25:41,001 Speaker 2: to go after his assets, she can't find any and 514 00:25:41,041 --> 00:25:45,041 Speaker 2: the impact on her life is so dire. It's affected 515 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,400 Speaker 2: every relationship that she's ever had since. It's very sad, 516 00:25:48,441 --> 00:25:51,321 Speaker 2: and I wonder when people come to you like that, 517 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:54,681 Speaker 2: how can you give them any confidence that you can 518 00:25:54,721 --> 00:25:56,801 Speaker 2: do something positive for them? Do you have to say, listen, 519 00:25:56,801 --> 00:25:59,521 Speaker 2: there's big hurdles here do you try to dissuade them? 520 00:25:59,521 --> 00:26:00,081 Speaker 2: What do you do? 521 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:02,961 Speaker 3: One of the biggest things that actually happened that was 522 00:26:02,961 --> 00:26:05,440 Speaker 3: after the Royal Commission is that they totaled states and 523 00:26:05,481 --> 00:26:08,801 Speaker 3: territories to abolish limitation periods, because, like I said, it 524 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 3: was twenty nine point four years before people reported, so 525 00:26:11,801 --> 00:26:13,880 Speaker 3: that was one of the main barriers that BIGNA survivors 526 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,561 Speaker 3: hadn't actually seeking a civil redress. But the main thing 527 00:26:17,681 --> 00:26:20,440 Speaker 3: is if an offender doesn't have any assets, there's nothing 528 00:26:20,441 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 3: you can do, and if they're not convicted of the crime, 529 00:26:23,521 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 3: there's no way you can get vindors of crime. And 530 00:26:26,041 --> 00:26:28,440 Speaker 3: so if you think we're in South Australia, we've I 531 00:26:28,441 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 3: think we're sitting on almost two or three hundred million 532 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,921 Speaker 3: dollars of a victors of Crime fund, and you think, 533 00:26:33,961 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 3: why should victims of crime funds be growing? They should 534 00:26:36,481 --> 00:26:39,440 Speaker 3: be there to commensate victims of crime. I don't know 535 00:26:39,481 --> 00:26:40,961 Speaker 3: what it would be in the other states as well, 536 00:26:40,961 --> 00:26:44,481 Speaker 3: but if there's someone that's clearly been abused their whole life, 537 00:26:44,801 --> 00:26:47,641 Speaker 3: they've been going to the doctor for years and there's 538 00:26:47,681 --> 00:26:51,201 Speaker 3: been a formal diagnosis that they've suffered PTSD, anxiety, anything 539 00:26:51,281 --> 00:26:52,561 Speaker 3: from childhood sexual abuse. 540 00:26:53,201 --> 00:26:53,921 Speaker 1: You wonder why. 541 00:26:53,961 --> 00:26:56,200 Speaker 3: Governments don't say, right, well, we've got all this excess 542 00:26:56,241 --> 00:26:58,641 Speaker 3: money in victs of crime funds. You should be able 543 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 3: to do that, especially if an independent psychiatrist says that, yes, 544 00:27:02,681 --> 00:27:04,561 Speaker 3: you have these injuries, because it is very hard to 545 00:27:04,561 --> 00:27:06,841 Speaker 3: pull the all over the eyes of a lawyer when 546 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 3: someone goes in, because I am kind of engaging in 547 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:10,921 Speaker 3: a bit of a mini cross examination at times when 548 00:27:10,921 --> 00:27:14,361 Speaker 3: I first meet someone to see the legitimacy of their crimes. 549 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:18,481 Speaker 3: And I've had one in fifteen years that I just said, look, 550 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:20,961 Speaker 3: I don't think I can help you because they showed 551 00:27:21,001 --> 00:27:24,481 Speaker 3: telltale signs of making up things. But if you can 552 00:27:24,521 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 3: convince a lawyer and an independent psychiatrist who is not 553 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:32,120 Speaker 3: a treating psychiatrist, you just see once that something happened 554 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:33,801 Speaker 3: to you, and then you can go to the government 555 00:27:33,801 --> 00:27:36,440 Speaker 3: and say, here's my psych report, here's my GP notes, 556 00:27:36,921 --> 00:27:39,920 Speaker 3: here's all proof that I've been dealing with trauma from 557 00:27:40,041 --> 00:27:43,160 Speaker 3: childhood sexual abuse my whole life. There's no reason why 558 00:27:43,201 --> 00:27:44,801 Speaker 3: they shouldn't be able to go after bits of crime 559 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 3: fund because again it's growing, and it's the fund is 560 00:27:48,120 --> 00:27:50,761 Speaker 3: there to commensate victim survivors of all kinds of crimes. 561 00:27:50,921 --> 00:27:53,161 Speaker 3: Like in South Australia, it's a staging approach. So if 562 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,721 Speaker 3: you were a victim of crime before nineteen sixty nine, 563 00:27:55,801 --> 00:27:58,360 Speaker 3: the maximum you can claim it's one thousand dollars. Before 564 00:27:58,481 --> 00:28:00,801 Speaker 3: nineteen seventy something it's two thousand. I think it went 565 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:05,201 Speaker 3: up to twenty thousand in the eighties, fifty thousand in 566 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:08,880 Speaker 3: early two thousands, and it's now to one hundred thousand 567 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,281 Speaker 3: dollars here in South Australia maximum. But again, the fund 568 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 3: is there for a reason. It should be used for 569 00:28:14,321 --> 00:28:15,801 Speaker 3: all the people that fall through the cracks. Look at 570 00:28:15,801 --> 00:28:17,961 Speaker 3: the Redress Scheme for instance. The Redress Scheme is set 571 00:28:18,041 --> 00:28:20,960 Speaker 3: up for victims vivors to go after institutions that are 572 00:28:21,001 --> 00:28:24,400 Speaker 3: no longer in existence and no longer able to be sued. 573 00:28:24,681 --> 00:28:26,880 Speaker 3: But what a lot of the churches, the schools and 574 00:28:26,921 --> 00:28:29,400 Speaker 3: the state governments do is they tell people to go 575 00:28:29,441 --> 00:28:31,880 Speaker 3: straight through the redress scheme and it's capped a one 576 00:28:31,921 --> 00:28:34,440 Speaker 3: hundred and fifty thousand dollars because they know they'll be 577 00:28:34,441 --> 00:28:38,481 Speaker 3: paying cents the dollar if people sue the institutions that 578 00:28:38,561 --> 00:28:42,401 Speaker 3: have insurance and assets their claims are worth millions, so 579 00:28:42,521 --> 00:28:44,881 Speaker 3: to me, the Redress scheme is the absolute claim of 580 00:28:44,961 --> 00:28:47,561 Speaker 3: last resort you'd go to. But the government set up 581 00:28:47,601 --> 00:28:51,001 Speaker 3: the National Redress Scheme for people that have been abused 582 00:28:51,001 --> 00:28:54,881 Speaker 3: and institutions. Now only four percent of all abuse takes 583 00:28:54,881 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 3: place as an institution. The rest is by a family 584 00:28:57,761 --> 00:29:02,480 Speaker 3: member and other offenders. So I don't know where the 585 00:29:02,521 --> 00:29:04,720 Speaker 3: other people are meant to go. If there's billions been 586 00:29:04,761 --> 00:29:09,841 Speaker 3: spent on institutions which have insurance and funds to satisfy claims. 587 00:29:10,161 --> 00:29:15,121 Speaker 2: Only four percent come from institutional sex abuse, that's remarkable. 588 00:29:15,161 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 2: So ninety six percent are, as you say, outside that realm, 589 00:29:19,761 --> 00:29:22,921 Speaker 2: and they have no chance of pursuing the assets of 590 00:29:22,961 --> 00:29:24,801 Speaker 2: these offenders. You had a bit of success. You've been 591 00:29:24,801 --> 00:29:26,681 Speaker 2: talking to the Albaneze government for a while and the 592 00:29:26,721 --> 00:29:30,121 Speaker 2: Minister for Financial Services, Stephen Jones, prior to the last election, 593 00:29:30,841 --> 00:29:34,161 Speaker 2: did talk about a discussion paper for consultation, but it 594 00:29:34,201 --> 00:29:36,721 Speaker 2: seemed to be watered down almost from the beginning, where 595 00:29:36,721 --> 00:29:41,041 Speaker 2: it was only going to be making available additional super contributions. 596 00:29:41,041 --> 00:29:43,760 Speaker 2: In other words, after someone was convicted, who would then 597 00:29:43,801 --> 00:29:48,081 Speaker 2: make additional contributions to defeat their possible claims. That seems 598 00:29:48,081 --> 00:29:49,841 Speaker 2: to be too little, too late. 599 00:29:50,641 --> 00:29:53,761 Speaker 3: Well, it was myself, Madeline West, fighters against TILDEBEUS Australia 600 00:29:53,921 --> 00:29:57,641 Speaker 3: and the Great Team Foundation and discussions with Stephen Jones, 601 00:29:57,961 --> 00:30:00,921 Speaker 3: and we said that it has to be for all 602 00:30:01,361 --> 00:30:05,081 Speaker 3: inters of abuse, not just guilty findings, because though a 603 00:30:05,281 --> 00:30:09,401 Speaker 3: point zero zero three percent of overall abuses, and we 604 00:30:09,441 --> 00:30:12,521 Speaker 3: said it had to be out of all contributions and 605 00:30:12,921 --> 00:30:16,161 Speaker 3: all matters. What Labor has said is, well, we do 606 00:30:16,201 --> 00:30:18,881 Speaker 3: it for only findings of guilt and out of a 607 00:30:18,921 --> 00:30:21,401 Speaker 3: character contribution. So if your employe is putting in one 608 00:30:21,401 --> 00:30:24,161 Speaker 3: thousand dollars a week into Super and you pay fifty 609 00:30:24,201 --> 00:30:26,321 Speaker 3: dollars a week on top of that, the Labor government 610 00:30:26,361 --> 00:30:28,241 Speaker 3: says you're only entired to go after that fifty dollars 611 00:30:28,281 --> 00:30:31,321 Speaker 3: a week, and so you could be sitting on millions 612 00:30:31,361 --> 00:30:33,681 Speaker 3: of Super and they still won't budge. And the main 613 00:30:33,721 --> 00:30:35,281 Speaker 3: thing that the Labor government has said is they don't 614 00:30:35,281 --> 00:30:37,801 Speaker 3: want to touch Super. But they show again and again 615 00:30:38,001 --> 00:30:41,641 Speaker 3: that they are continuing to tax all Australians superannuation and 616 00:30:41,721 --> 00:30:44,761 Speaker 3: yet they're saying you can't touch child sex offenders. It 617 00:30:44,801 --> 00:30:47,361 Speaker 3: makes no sense whatsoever for a government that's been to 618 00:30:47,361 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 3: be representing the best interest of all Australians. They're not 619 00:30:50,521 --> 00:30:53,921 Speaker 3: representing the interests of Australians if they're making tax payers 620 00:30:54,121 --> 00:30:58,001 Speaker 3: foot the bill for crimes or what offenders cause. In 621 00:30:58,081 --> 00:31:02,601 Speaker 3: circumstances where offenders have assets available for distribution, A. 622 00:31:02,601 --> 00:31:06,601 Speaker 2: What advice would you give to victim? Survivors are facing 623 00:31:06,601 --> 00:31:08,841 Speaker 2: this whole question, then maybe they've waited for a long time. 624 00:31:09,681 --> 00:31:13,361 Speaker 2: It's difficult enough to come forward. They have demonstrable losses 625 00:31:13,401 --> 00:31:16,441 Speaker 2: and effects in their life from the abuse they've suffered. 626 00:31:16,441 --> 00:31:18,481 Speaker 2: What advice do you give them? 627 00:31:19,201 --> 00:31:22,521 Speaker 3: Still speak to a lawyer, because the first point of 628 00:31:22,561 --> 00:31:24,881 Speaker 3: call it's to see if these offenders have assets. Now, 629 00:31:25,401 --> 00:31:29,001 Speaker 3: most people, if the abuse happened in the sixty seventies, eighties, nineties, 630 00:31:29,361 --> 00:31:31,641 Speaker 3: the cost of living was actually manageable. 631 00:31:31,721 --> 00:31:34,361 Speaker 1: So often offenders have houses. 632 00:31:34,641 --> 00:31:36,521 Speaker 3: But again, if they're married, you can only go after 633 00:31:36,521 --> 00:31:38,681 Speaker 3: fifty per center of the equity in their property. And 634 00:31:38,721 --> 00:31:41,121 Speaker 3: so I've seen some of the bigger law firms around 635 00:31:41,121 --> 00:31:44,641 Speaker 3: Australia they're suing offenders for five million dollars they've only 636 00:31:44,641 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 3: got five hundred thousand dollars equity in the property. It 637 00:31:47,321 --> 00:31:49,521 Speaker 3: just doesn't make sense, and that's the reason why all 638 00:31:49,521 --> 00:31:52,281 Speaker 3: of the claims don't exist. When you're suing the offender, 639 00:31:52,681 --> 00:31:55,361 Speaker 3: your claim against them is basically worth what their assets are. 640 00:31:55,961 --> 00:31:58,121 Speaker 3: I will always say, firstly, it's not your fault. Speech 641 00:31:58,121 --> 00:32:01,121 Speaker 3: to a lawyer right away and do title search to 642 00:32:01,161 --> 00:32:04,281 Speaker 3: see if he is offenders own assets. And the one 643 00:32:04,321 --> 00:32:07,681 Speaker 3: thing I've noticed more than anything is, yes, the timeframe 644 00:32:07,761 --> 00:32:10,561 Speaker 3: is large, but most of the time when people report 645 00:32:10,881 --> 00:32:12,761 Speaker 3: is when they have children of their own, and that's 646 00:32:12,761 --> 00:32:15,721 Speaker 3: when it hits home that, oh, this is something that 647 00:32:15,841 --> 00:32:18,361 Speaker 3: I happen to me as a child. I don't ever 648 00:32:18,401 --> 00:32:20,681 Speaker 3: want my kid to go through this, and so that's 649 00:32:20,721 --> 00:32:23,161 Speaker 3: when they report to the police. But again, people are 650 00:32:23,161 --> 00:32:25,841 Speaker 3: scared to apport to the police because when they're a 651 00:32:25,881 --> 00:32:28,481 Speaker 3: young child and they're being sexually abused in a room, 652 00:32:29,001 --> 00:32:30,481 Speaker 3: they don't want to then go sit in front of 653 00:32:30,521 --> 00:32:32,921 Speaker 3: a big, scary police officer who's probably the same age 654 00:32:33,241 --> 00:32:36,641 Speaker 3: as their offender was in a room by themselves. It's 655 00:32:36,641 --> 00:32:39,041 Speaker 3: just triggering to them. So we've even said in the 656 00:32:39,081 --> 00:32:42,121 Speaker 3: past there should be things like having a specialized unit 657 00:32:42,161 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 3: for this where child psychologists or at least qualified psychologists 658 00:32:45,521 --> 00:32:48,561 Speaker 3: or social workers are with a police officer to actually 659 00:32:48,561 --> 00:32:51,601 Speaker 3: soften the approach of taking a statement, because more people 660 00:32:51,601 --> 00:32:53,881 Speaker 3: would be more than willing to come forward if they're 661 00:32:53,881 --> 00:32:55,761 Speaker 3: not going to be triggered by virtue of recounting the 662 00:32:55,801 --> 00:32:58,361 Speaker 3: offense against them. But then they see things like so 663 00:32:58,361 --> 00:33:01,921 Speaker 3: the Britney Higgins trial, they see that it's the trial 664 00:33:02,001 --> 00:33:05,441 Speaker 3: is basically attacking the victim. The offender will sit there 665 00:33:05,441 --> 00:33:09,201 Speaker 3: in silence, they'll get to cross examine the victim survivor, 666 00:33:09,761 --> 00:33:12,681 Speaker 3: and more often than not that the actual criminal trial, 667 00:33:12,761 --> 00:33:15,841 Speaker 3: if it gets that far, is more triggering the abuse itself. 668 00:33:15,961 --> 00:33:19,921 Speaker 3: So many victims survivors simply too scared to go to 669 00:33:19,921 --> 00:33:21,960 Speaker 3: the police or the one thing they believe that no 670 00:33:21,961 --> 00:33:24,240 Speaker 3: one's going to believe them. I mean, the easiest way 671 00:33:24,281 --> 00:33:25,921 Speaker 3: to deal with it is if you've got a kid 672 00:33:25,961 --> 00:33:29,521 Speaker 3: that's in year nine and the abuse happens in year nine. 673 00:33:29,921 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 3: They've been top of the class their whole life, their abuse, 674 00:33:33,081 --> 00:33:34,601 Speaker 3: and turn one and year nine, and all of a 675 00:33:34,641 --> 00:33:37,841 Speaker 3: sudden they start failing every subject. Years after the fact, 676 00:33:37,841 --> 00:33:41,081 Speaker 3: you can pinpoint that this abuse happened in or about 677 00:33:41,361 --> 00:33:44,161 Speaker 3: year nine, and when you were turn one, you're in 678 00:33:44,241 --> 00:33:46,441 Speaker 3: year nine, and that your grades went down. You can 679 00:33:46,441 --> 00:33:49,001 Speaker 3: pinpoint that you don't need to be exact with the dates. 680 00:33:49,001 --> 00:33:51,441 Speaker 3: In civil matters, you just have to give a time frame. 681 00:33:51,521 --> 00:33:54,281 Speaker 3: And anecdotal evidence would be that if your parents come 682 00:33:54,321 --> 00:33:56,401 Speaker 3: forward and say, oh, you definitely change in year nine 683 00:33:56,401 --> 00:33:59,521 Speaker 3: and your GP note show that you started seeing a 684 00:33:59,521 --> 00:34:02,641 Speaker 3: psychologist you had low mood, there's ways to actually trace 685 00:34:02,681 --> 00:34:05,720 Speaker 3: it back. So people get scared because of remember the 686 00:34:05,721 --> 00:34:08,480 Speaker 3: exact dates and times that happened. But everyone goes to 687 00:34:08,521 --> 00:34:11,161 Speaker 3: the doctor. Everyone can have reports that are kept for 688 00:34:11,241 --> 00:34:14,401 Speaker 3: years for schools. That is a clear indication of the 689 00:34:14,441 --> 00:34:15,721 Speaker 3: impact after the abuse. 690 00:34:17,361 --> 00:34:19,281 Speaker 2: You've really put your heart in solider this. You could 691 00:34:19,321 --> 00:34:22,921 Speaker 2: be doing cushy corporate law jobs and so forth, but 692 00:34:22,961 --> 00:34:26,841 Speaker 2: you've decided to do this. And I have to say, 693 00:34:26,881 --> 00:34:28,961 Speaker 2: the tide is not turning in your favorite this stage. 694 00:34:29,001 --> 00:34:32,521 Speaker 2: Politics are standing in your way of the just outcome. 695 00:34:32,561 --> 00:34:35,001 Speaker 2: Do you think anything will change? And how long can 696 00:34:35,041 --> 00:34:38,281 Speaker 2: you continue to advocate on behalf of victim survivors if 697 00:34:38,281 --> 00:34:40,641 Speaker 2: the law doesn't change all My. 698 00:34:40,641 --> 00:34:42,441 Speaker 1: Wife will so quite stubborn. So I'm not going to 699 00:34:42,441 --> 00:34:43,121 Speaker 1: back down from this. 700 00:34:43,241 --> 00:34:45,601 Speaker 3: And I've had people over the years say, oh, you know, 701 00:34:45,641 --> 00:34:48,201 Speaker 3: you should run for office, and I say no, Like 702 00:34:48,681 --> 00:34:50,561 Speaker 3: I can do a lot more damage being outside the 703 00:34:50,561 --> 00:34:53,201 Speaker 3: castle pissing in than inside the castle pissing out. And 704 00:34:53,241 --> 00:34:55,081 Speaker 3: the fact that it's taken five and a half years 705 00:34:55,121 --> 00:34:58,041 Speaker 3: to get to this point and I'm not seeing any 706 00:34:58,281 --> 00:35:01,121 Speaker 3: government body willing to put their hand up and actually say, hey, 707 00:35:01,121 --> 00:35:03,921 Speaker 3: we're going to pass this. It's not disheartening. It just 708 00:35:03,961 --> 00:35:06,841 Speaker 3: makes me want to grind down and fight for it, 709 00:35:06,881 --> 00:35:08,441 Speaker 3: because again, I've. 710 00:35:08,241 --> 00:35:09,121 Speaker 1: Got children my own. 711 00:35:09,441 --> 00:35:11,361 Speaker 3: I want to make sure when they're older that my 712 00:35:11,441 --> 00:35:14,681 Speaker 3: grandkids and great grandkids in a world where there's going 713 00:35:14,721 --> 00:35:16,961 Speaker 3: to be greater deterrence and committing these crimes. Like if 714 00:35:17,361 --> 00:35:19,561 Speaker 3: you went to casino and the game was if you 715 00:35:19,601 --> 00:35:21,481 Speaker 3: put one hundred dollars down, you're ninety nine point nine 716 00:35:21,561 --> 00:35:23,801 Speaker 3: nine to seven percent likely to win, you'd be doing 717 00:35:23,801 --> 00:35:26,521 Speaker 3: it every day of the week because the chances of 718 00:35:26,521 --> 00:35:30,401 Speaker 3: losing are so remote and obscure. And even if I 719 00:35:30,401 --> 00:35:35,321 Speaker 3: can't improve the conviction rate, at least this cause will 720 00:35:35,361 --> 00:35:38,041 Speaker 3: hopefully deter people from offending because they're going to think, oh, 721 00:35:38,041 --> 00:35:41,001 Speaker 3: hang on, I know a guy that lost his entire 722 00:35:41,521 --> 00:35:44,121 Speaker 3: million dollars superannuation he's been working for for forty years 723 00:35:44,161 --> 00:35:46,721 Speaker 3: because he offended it as a child. Maybe I shouldn't 724 00:35:46,761 --> 00:35:48,441 Speaker 3: do that. You know, I'm not doing one hundred and 725 00:35:48,441 --> 00:35:49,960 Speaker 3: fifty k's on the road on the way to work 726 00:35:50,361 --> 00:35:52,601 Speaker 3: every morning because I don't want to pay a massive 727 00:35:52,601 --> 00:35:56,681 Speaker 3: fine and get my car crushed. Most people are sensible 728 00:35:56,681 --> 00:35:59,601 Speaker 3: when it comes to the financial cost, because I get 729 00:35:59,601 --> 00:36:02,241 Speaker 3: why criminal lawyers say that suspended sentences at home to 730 00:36:02,321 --> 00:36:05,401 Speaker 3: tendents are a real thing. But God, during COVID everyone 731 00:36:05,401 --> 00:36:07,521 Speaker 3: did home detention. Home detention is you can't leave the 732 00:36:07,561 --> 00:36:09,601 Speaker 3: house unless it's the growthro is or a medical appointment. 733 00:36:10,001 --> 00:36:12,601 Speaker 3: And you know it sucked, but it wasn't prison. 734 00:36:13,641 --> 00:36:16,241 Speaker 2: Good point, Andrew Carpenter. It's been a pleasure to talk 735 00:36:16,241 --> 00:36:18,041 Speaker 2: to you. I wish you all the very best. It's 736 00:36:18,081 --> 00:36:21,161 Speaker 2: a tough ask. I wonder whether you have to get 737 00:36:21,161 --> 00:36:23,241 Speaker 2: to the High Court, you have to get to some 738 00:36:23,921 --> 00:36:27,281 Speaker 2: forum where you can change the law. This can be 739 00:36:27,401 --> 00:36:29,601 Speaker 2: challenged on a very fundamental level. Do you think it's 740 00:36:29,641 --> 00:36:33,121 Speaker 2: possible or is it simply we're waiting for politicians to 741 00:36:33,161 --> 00:36:35,961 Speaker 2: do what we're paying them for, or. 742 00:36:35,961 --> 00:36:38,241 Speaker 3: It's waiting for politicians and this could be something is 743 00:36:38,441 --> 00:36:41,441 Speaker 3: simple as adding six words to the Bankruptcy Act except 744 00:36:41,481 --> 00:36:45,041 Speaker 3: for child sex abuse matters. That's one section. We could 745 00:36:45,041 --> 00:36:47,201 Speaker 3: put that in about super being a protected asset because 746 00:36:47,801 --> 00:36:50,841 Speaker 3: if you're a fraudster, for instance, you can declare bankruptcy 747 00:36:50,841 --> 00:36:53,401 Speaker 3: as a fraudster, but ten years later, if you've got 748 00:36:53,441 --> 00:36:56,321 Speaker 3: money that's popped up, you can be bankrupted again. 749 00:36:56,481 --> 00:36:57,961 Speaker 1: But any other crime it's not. 750 00:36:58,121 --> 00:37:02,361 Speaker 3: So fraudsters under the Bankruptcy Act are deemed more dangerous 751 00:37:02,721 --> 00:37:06,000 Speaker 3: than child sex offenders. So I just hope there's more 752 00:37:06,281 --> 00:37:09,361 Speaker 3: federal ministers that are going to put their hand up 753 00:37:09,401 --> 00:37:12,241 Speaker 3: and go after this cause because until that we're not 754 00:37:12,281 --> 00:37:13,440 Speaker 3: going to see the numbers drop. 755 00:37:13,441 --> 00:37:15,201 Speaker 1: We're going to see it become worse. 756 00:37:15,281 --> 00:37:17,761 Speaker 3: And look at technology, like the law hasn't brought up 757 00:37:17,761 --> 00:37:20,281 Speaker 3: with technology yet. We've got all these AI apps that 758 00:37:20,321 --> 00:37:24,281 Speaker 3: are producing child abuse images and that hasn't been shut 759 00:37:24,321 --> 00:37:27,761 Speaker 3: down yet. So until we start addressing all crimes later children, 760 00:37:27,801 --> 00:37:30,441 Speaker 3: you think the youth crime would go down if children 761 00:37:30,521 --> 00:37:33,121 Speaker 3: aren't abused and ut turning drugs. Prisoners will go down 762 00:37:33,161 --> 00:37:35,761 Speaker 3: if people aren't committing crimes to turn drugs. This is 763 00:37:35,961 --> 00:37:41,121 Speaker 3: a fundamental, basic level change which is going to do 764 00:37:41,241 --> 00:37:43,201 Speaker 3: a lot of good, prevent a lot of harm, and 765 00:37:43,321 --> 00:37:45,841 Speaker 3: finally get bitness survivors getting the recourse they deserve. 766 00:37:46,721 --> 00:37:48,041 Speaker 2: Do you thank you so much for your time today. 767 00:37:48,241 --> 00:37:49,201 Speaker 2: I really appreciate it. 768 00:37:49,681 --> 00:37:50,041 Speaker 1: Thank you. 769 00:37:52,641 --> 00:37:56,361 Speaker 2: That's Andrew Carpenter from the Super for Survivors team that's 770 00:37:56,401 --> 00:38:00,121 Speaker 2: demanding the federal government reform the Bankruptcy Act. This is 771 00:38:00,521 --> 00:38:04,561 Speaker 2: just not fair. The victims of sexual abuse in our 772 00:38:04,601 --> 00:38:07,321 Speaker 2: society have suffered in silence for far too long. Most 773 00:38:07,321 --> 00:38:09,801 Speaker 2: of them have been reluctant to come forward. They're coming 774 00:38:09,841 --> 00:38:12,321 Speaker 2: forward now in great numbers. We know this is an 775 00:38:12,401 --> 00:38:17,281 Speaker 2: incredibly pervasive offense in our society and it's time we 776 00:38:17,361 --> 00:38:20,960 Speaker 2: hit these monsters where they lived, in their homes, their superinnuation. 777 00:38:21,441 --> 00:38:26,161 Speaker 2: This loophole needs to be closed sooner rather than later. 778 00:38:26,441 --> 00:38:30,081 Speaker 2: Politics often fails victims. There is another case of it. 779 00:38:30,641 --> 00:38:33,681 Speaker 2: If you've been a victim of child sexual abuse, I 780 00:38:33,881 --> 00:38:36,881 Speaker 2: urge you to come forward, come to the police, call 781 00:38:36,961 --> 00:38:39,321 Speaker 2: Crime Stoppers one out out of triple three, triple zero. 782 00:38:39,681 --> 00:38:43,481 Speaker 2: You can also contact Andrew Carpenter at Webster's Lawyers and Adelaide. 783 00:38:43,521 --> 00:38:45,921 Speaker 2: He will certainly take your case. We'd also like tea 784 00:38:46,001 --> 00:38:47,841 Speaker 2: from you as well. You can give you an email 785 00:38:47,881 --> 00:38:51,041 Speaker 2: Adam Shander writer at gmail dot com, but also write 786 00:38:51,041 --> 00:38:53,801 Speaker 2: to your local member of parliament. Make sure they know 787 00:38:54,321 --> 00:38:57,321 Speaker 2: that the silent majority will not cop this anymore. These 788 00:38:57,361 --> 00:39:00,321 Speaker 2: monsters need to be brought to account, not just in 789 00:39:00,361 --> 00:39:03,601 Speaker 2: the courts because the sentences are just not enough. Get 790 00:39:03,601 --> 00:39:05,521 Speaker 2: their money from them, That's what all really hurt them, 791 00:39:05,681 --> 00:39:08,521 Speaker 2: so they can't come out to a cushy lifestyle having 792 00:39:08,841 --> 00:39:12,401 Speaker 2: left their victims in squalor and suffering for the rest 793 00:39:12,441 --> 00:39:14,441 Speaker 2: of their lives. Thanks for listening to this has been 794 00:39:14,481 --> 00:39:16,161 Speaker 2: Adam Shand for real crime