Speaker 1: Since the terrible events of October seven, twenty twenty three,
Speaker 1: we have witnessed a number of appalling anti Semitic attacks
Speaker 1: against Australia's Jewish community. I have made it clear that
Speaker 1: these sorts of incidents have no place in Australia and
Speaker 1: that I wanted Asia and the AFP to investigate as
Speaker 1: a priority.
Speaker 2: When Prime Minister to Anthony Albanezi fronted the media this
Speaker 2: week alongside ASIO chief Mike Burgess, it was with extraordinary news.
Speaker 2: Albanizer revealed that ASIO now has evidence that the Iranian
Speaker 2: government was behind at least two anti Semitic attacks on
Speaker 2: Australian soil, the fire bombing of a Jewish kitchen in
Speaker 2: Bandai and an arson attack on the Adas Synagogue in Melbourne.
Speaker 2: He said Iran directed the attacks and then tried to
Speaker 2: cover up its role.
Speaker 1: It is totally unacceptable and the Australian government is taking
Speaker 1: strong and decisive action in response. A short time ago,
Speaker 1: we informed the Iranian ambassador to Australia that he would
Speaker 1: be expelled.
Speaker 2: It was interesting timing as Australia's Defense Minister took an
Speaker 2: impromptu visit to the United States, taking secret meetings with
Speaker 2: unpublished agendas. I'm Daniel James and you're listening to seven
Speaker 2: AM today Press Gallery journalist Karen Middleton on the high
Speaker 2: States diplomacy behind closed doors and the shifting lines of
Speaker 2: trust between the US, Israel and Australia. It's Saturday, August thirty, Karen.
Speaker 2: Last weekend, Defense Minister and Deputy PM Richard Marles made
Speaker 2: a seemingly unplanned lightning trip to Washington. What struck you
Speaker 2: about the timing of that trip, Well.
Speaker 3: Daniel, For starters, it was a parliamentary sitting week, and
Speaker 3: normally when there's a high level visit overseas involving a
Speaker 3: senior minister like Richard Miles, you would have all eat
Speaker 3: a sitting week wherever possible because he has parliamentary duties.
Speaker 3: It's not a great look to be missing parliament. So
Speaker 3: that suggests to you that it was a meeting of
Speaker 3: some urgency. And then you know there was a lot
Speaker 3: of confusion around exactly why he was going and who
Speaker 3: was meeting with. But primarily the first sign that it
Speaker 3: was a bit weird was the fact that it clashed
Speaker 3: with a sitting fortnite.
Speaker 2: And as Miles flew out, he usued a statement saying
Speaker 2: that the purpose of the trip was a meeting with
Speaker 2: his counterpart, Pete Hegsith, but his key meeting was with
Speaker 2: the Secretary of State Marque Rubio. So what can we
Speaker 2: take from that.
Speaker 3: Well, that's the second thing that was a little bit odd.
Speaker 3: He did indicate as he flew out on Sunday that
Speaker 3: he was seeing Pete Hegsas. Then it was suggested that
Speaker 3: that meeting hadn't been locked in and he was arriving
Speaker 3: in Washington without it having been locked in. Then we
Speaker 3: discovered that he was seeing Marco Rubio, who's the Secretary
Speaker 3: of State. Now he's also the acting National Security Advisor,
Speaker 3: so he does have a broad remit. And Richard Marle
Speaker 3: is in the security domain as Defense Minister, so it's
Speaker 3: not ridiculous that he would meet the Secretary of State.
Speaker 3: But generally speaking, it would be a foreign minister who
Speaker 3: would be meeting with the Secretary of State, and that
Speaker 3: meeting has been very much downplayed by Richard Miles and
Speaker 3: by the government generally. All the focus has been on
Speaker 3: the whether he did or didn't meet with Pete Hegsas.
Speaker 3: But the meeting with Rubio, there was one photograph that
Speaker 3: was published in the Australian newspaper, but didn't appear on
Speaker 3: Richard Miles or social media feeds of him and Kevin Rudby,
Speaker 3: Ambassador and Australian officials sitting down with Marco Arriubio and
Speaker 3: American officials, and we don't know what was discussed. And
Speaker 3: normally there's a readout from the American end, at least
Speaker 3: on a formal sit down meeting with a visiting foreign
Speaker 3: leader or minister, and we didn't get that. So there's
Speaker 3: nothing from the American side and nothing from the Australian
Speaker 3: side on why they sat down, on what they talked about.
Speaker 3: So there's a.
Speaker 2: Degree of ambiguity about it all. What did the Pentagon
Speaker 2: say when they responded to the questions about these meetings.
Speaker 3: Well, this did not make it any clearer, can I say?
Speaker 3: Initially Richard Marles issued these photographs of himself with Vice
Speaker 3: President JD. Evance and with Defense Secretary Pete Hegsath, So
Speaker 3: there was naturally a question about, well, what happened at
Speaker 3: the heggs this meeting, and the Pentagon issued a statement
Speaker 3: saying it wasn't a meeting.
Speaker 4: The Pentagon has told nine News there was not a
Speaker 4: meeting between Defense Minister Richard Miles and his US counterpart
Speaker 4: Pete Hegzeth. A US defense official, says it was a
Speaker 4: happenstance encounter.
Speaker 2: Mister Martin just sent us.
Speaker 3: Offline to the dictionaries to try and work out what
Speaker 3: that exactly means, because it's not a Jenner phrase we've
Speaker 3: heard before. But it would suggest very strongly that it
Speaker 3: was not a meeting of substance. It was a chat basically.
Speaker 3: But then it got weirder because of course, once Richard
Speaker 3: Miles was back in Australia, there was a lot of
Speaker 3: media attention on this and what this phrase means.
Speaker 5: You would see politicians have a pretty good understanding of
Speaker 5: their diaries. However, there is confusion tonight as neither the
Speaker 5: Australian nor the United States governments seemed to know if
Speaker 5: our defense ministers had a meeting or not.
Speaker 3: And then the Pentagon issued another statement, which we suspect
Speaker 3: was at the urging of Richard Miles and the government
Speaker 3: saying no, no, it was actually a meeting.
Speaker 6: And within hours a fresh statement from the Pentagon landed
Speaker 6: Secretary Hegseth welcomed the opportunity to meet in person with
Speaker 6: Deputy Prime Minister Miles. Their meeting at the White House
Speaker 6: on Tuesday was coordinated in advance.
Speaker 3: By Thursday, Miles was back in Parliament and he got
Speaker 3: a question from Shadow Minister Angus Taylor specifically about the
Speaker 3: Hexath meeting.
Speaker 2: Was this a meeting with Secretary Exith or just a
Speaker 2: photo opportunity and was there an outcome beyond the photo?
Speaker 3: Richard Miles had a crack at Angus Taylor in reply,
Speaker 3: but he still didn't tell us why he went.
Speaker 4: Misters Speaker, I think we all understand that the question
Speaker 4: from Captain Conspiracy over here was whether or no, actually the.
Speaker 3: But the Pentagon has not issued any kind of readout
Speaker 3: on this meeting, and normally they would, so to not
Speaker 3: have a summary does suggest this was somewhere short of
Speaker 3: a full blown meeting.
Speaker 2: Coming up, Marco Rubio's meeting with Israel's foreign minister and
Speaker 2: how it may have shaped what happened here, Karen, Marco
Speaker 2: Rubio had another significant meeting this week with Israel's Foreign Minister,
Speaker 2: Gideon sa So what do we know about what was
Speaker 2: discussed and whether there was any link between that meeting
Speaker 2: and Rubio's meeting with Miles.
Speaker 3: They did issue a readout on that meeting. It was
Speaker 3: a couple of days after the one with Richard Miles,
Speaker 3: and in a lot of ways, the content of what
Speaker 3: they discussed, according to the readout, was not very surprising.
Speaker 3: They said that they had discussed the US's quote unwavering
Speaker 3: commitment to Israel's security unquote, and that's spoken specifically about
Speaker 3: Gaza Lebanon in Syria. So that's hardly surprising, especially under
Speaker 3: the current circumstances. And then there was this sentence quote additionally,
Speaker 3: the Secretary discussed the importance of countering Iran's malign influence unquote. Now, again,
Speaker 3: there's nothing surprising about discussing Iran. Israel attacked Iran recently,
Speaker 3: we know all about that. It's the wording that says
Speaker 3: as Secretary discussed Iran. Whether there's anything significant in it
Speaker 3: being the Secretary who brought that up rather than the
Speaker 3: Israeli Foreign Minister, I don't know. We could be reading
Speaker 3: way too much into it, but of course we're interested
Speaker 3: in any reference to Iran in the current context, in
Speaker 3: proximity to what the Australian government announced just as Richard
Speaker 3: Miles was sitting down with his counterparts in Washington.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so let's go to that current context. I mean,
Speaker 2: like you said, Ribio and Sara discussed Iran, but it
Speaker 2: came at the same week that our government took the
Speaker 2: extraordinary step of expelling the Iranian ambassador from the country,
Speaker 2: and we're told this was because the Iranian government was
Speaker 2: behind anti Semitic attacks on Australian soil. Can you tell
Speaker 2: me what's known about Iran's record on orchestrating attacks in
Speaker 2: other countries.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we certainly know that Iran has been accused of
Speaker 3: orchestrating attacks in Europe and elsewhere. That what they are
Speaker 3: said to have done is hired local criminals to undertake
Speaker 3: violent attacks. We've also heard a lot of evidence of
Speaker 3: harassment of Iranian expatriates living in other countries. But these
Speaker 3: the violent attacks and the alleged use of criminal gangs
Speaker 3: and criminal networks is what appears to be similar to
Speaker 3: the allegation we're seeing in Australia.
Speaker 2: The federal government has announced that the Islamic Revolutionary Guard
Speaker 2: Corps will be listed as a terrorist organization. This is
Speaker 2: something that critics of the regime have been calling for
Speaker 2: for a long time. So how long has the government
Speaker 2: been warned about Iranian activity in Australia.
Speaker 3: The government has known and had concerns for some time
Speaker 3: and that goes back to them Morrison government as well
Speaker 3: as the under the alb and Esy government, but has
Speaker 3: resisted taking formal steps like expelling the ambassador to see
Speaker 3: Now or listing the Iran Revolutionary Guard Corps as a
Speaker 3: terrorist organization. There was a Senate inquiry in Australia in
Speaker 3: twenty twenty three examining the implications of the deaths of
Speaker 3: a young Iranian woman, Marsa Amini in Tehran, who had
Speaker 3: been arrested for not wearing a hijab and died in
Speaker 3: mysterious circumstances. It was great concern. There were protests worldwide
Speaker 3: at the treatment of women. There were allegations of harassment
Speaker 3: of Iranian Australians here and there was great pressure then
Speaker 3: on the government from members of the Coalition here in
Speaker 3: Australia and for members of the wider Iranian community to
Speaker 3: list the Iran Revolutionary Guard Corps. At the time, and interestingly,
Speaker 3: the Director General of ASIO, Mike Burgess, mentioned Iran specifically
Speaker 3: in his National Security Assessment in February, which he does annually.
Speaker 7: We shouldn't be complacent or consider ourselves insulated from any
Speaker 7: of these threats. We are not immune to hostile nation
Speaker 7: states such as I run undertaking acts of security concern
Speaker 7: on our shores or near region.
Speaker 2: Given that history, Karen, how significant was what the government
Speaker 2: did this week.
Speaker 3: It's a big thing. What they have done is they
Speaker 3: have declared the Iranian ambassador persona non grata and kicked
Speaker 3: him out of the country. They gave him forty eight
Speaker 3: hours to leave and he has now gone. I have
Speaker 3: done my job and I'm going upon determination of my
Speaker 3: mission going home. Three other Iranian diplomats have been given
Speaker 3: seven days to get out of the country.
Speaker 7: Now.
Speaker 3: The reason the governments are very reluctant to do this
Speaker 3: is that it sever's relations with another country. There is
Speaker 3: no channel of communication. If you have Australians of dual
Speaker 3: nationality or Australians living and working in that other country,
Speaker 3: it leaves them vulnerable because there are no bilateral relations
Speaker 3: and the reciprocal thing usually happens and has in this
Speaker 3: case that Australian diplomats have been extracted from Iran. The
Speaker 3: government had to get them out of the country before
Speaker 3: it made this announcement public because of concerns for their safety.
Speaker 3: We've seen violent actions against the Australian embassy in Iran
Speaker 3: in the past and an assassination plot against the Australian
Speaker 3: ambassador in Iran some six years ago, but it's never
Speaker 3: got to this stage of evidence of actual violent acts
Speaker 3: in Australia. So that's a big thing to expel the
Speaker 3: ambassador and then to make this decision to list the
Speaker 3: Revolutionary Guard as a terrorist organization is also a big deal.
Speaker 1: The government will legislate so that we can list around
Speaker 1: Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps the RIGC as a terrorist organization.
Speaker 1: The actions of my government send a very clear message
Speaker 1: to what.
Speaker 3: That does is it's effectively saying that an arm of
Speaker 3: a foreign government, that a foreign state is a terrorist state.
Speaker 3: This Revolutionary Guard as the Yataller's security force. So in
Speaker 3: making that statement in the government's going to have to
Speaker 3: amend the Criminal Code here to allow for that. And
Speaker 3: it does open up potential other implications. For example, in
Speaker 3: other non democratic countries where there might be aggressive security forces,
Speaker 3: are they going to come under pressure now to do
Speaker 3: the same thing. There The upside in terms of the
Speaker 3: law of listing an organization like that is that it
Speaker 3: widens the scope of the kinds of criminal offenses that
Speaker 3: people involved in these kinds of violence in Australia might
Speaker 3: be exposed to. For example, they wouldn't just be charged
Speaker 3: with attacking premises, they'd be potentially charged with terrorism offenses.
Speaker 3: So there are lots of reasons to do it, but
Speaker 3: they have a lot of consequences, and there's also now
Speaker 3: concerned of retaliation against Australians in Iran.
Speaker 2: And finally, Karen, do you think it's fair to assume
Speaker 2: the government made these calls after consulting with the US
Speaker 2: and indirectly with Israel itself.
Speaker 3: Well, there's no doubt that the United States would have
Speaker 3: known about this. We know from things the government said
Speaker 3: in the last few days that there was at least
Speaker 3: one foreign intelligence service involved in this. They say that
Speaker 3: Azio did the bulk of the work, but there was
Speaker 3: clearly involvement of our foreign intelligence service. Whether that was
Speaker 3: the United States or Israel or both, we don't know,
Speaker 3: but you can be assured the United States would have
Speaker 3: known well before the announcement was made on Tuesday that
Speaker 3: this was going to happen. I'm sure Israel would have
Speaker 3: been kept informed as well, given the anti Semitic nature
Speaker 3: of these attacks and the implications for Jewish Australians and
Speaker 3: for Jews abroad. So Tuesday was not the first time
Speaker 3: that many of those other countries had heard about it,
Speaker 3: and indeed Monday was not the first time that the
Speaker 3: Australian executive government, the Prime Ministry and his colleagues would
Speaker 3: have heard about it either. They would have been kept
Speaker 3: abreast of the investigation and it was the formal advice
Speaker 3: that they received from ASIO on Monday that prompted them
Speaker 3: to take these steps, But people would have been kept
Speaker 3: in the loop for sure.
Speaker 2: Karen, thank you so much for your time. Thanks Daniel,
Speaker 2: thanks for listening to this extra Saturday edition of seven AM.
Speaker 2: On Monday, I speak with the Federal Environment Minister Murray Watt.
Speaker 2: I asked him about his plans to fix Australia's broken
Speaker 2: environmental laws, and I ask why in one of his
Speaker 2: first acts as minister, he approved the expansion of Woodside's
Speaker 2: massive Northwest Shelf gas project, despite Australians voting for action
Speaker 2: on climate change.
Speaker 8: I understand that when that decision was made there were
Speaker 8: many people who looked at it and questioned how we
Speaker 8: could be approving a project like that when you're thinking
Speaker 8: about greenhouse emissions and climate change.
Speaker 2: See you on Monday. Have a great weekend.
Speaker 7: D