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Speaker 1: Welcome to Fear and Greed Q and A, where we

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Speaker 1: ask an answer questions about business, investing, economics, politics and more.

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Speaker 1: I'm Michael Thompson and good morning Adam Lane.

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Speaker 2: Hello Michael, Adam.

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Speaker 1: Today's question falls squarely into the politics bracket. It's a

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Speaker 1: good one. The federal government is reportedly going to look

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Speaker 1: at four year terms right and increasing the number of

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Speaker 1: seats in Parliament as well. So today the real question

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Speaker 1: is why does this matter, will it actually happen and

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Speaker 1: is it good for Australian democracies. These are small questions

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Speaker 1: that we are going to answer in the next seven

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Speaker 1: minutes or so. Okay, I'll give a bit of context

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Speaker 1: first as to why we're discussing this. Nine newspapers are

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Speaker 1: reporting that these changes are being considered by the government. Basically,

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Speaker 1: after every election, the Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters

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Speaker 1: reviews the electoral system. It's basically almost a health check,

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Speaker 1: makes sure everything's still going okay, and if you need

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Speaker 1: to make any changes, that's when you do it. Special

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Speaker 1: Minister of State Don Farrell, because that is his portfolio,

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Speaker 1: he is able to decide the issues that the Committee

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Speaker 1: will look at, and on this particular occasion. According to

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Speaker 1: these reports, the issues that he has put forward are

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Speaker 1: changing from our three year terms that don't have a

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Speaker 1: fixed end date a fixed election dates, so they can

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Speaker 1: range kind of from two and a half years to

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Speaker 1: three and a bit years, and it's somewhere in between.

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Speaker 1: That's when the election is going to be held to

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Speaker 1: either be fixed terms or potentially be extended to be

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Speaker 1: fixed four year terms. The other big issue is increasing

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Speaker 1: the number of seats in the House of Representatives, the

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Speaker 1: lower house. The government has a huge mandate here. Really

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Speaker 1: it was a landslide victory for Anthony Albanezi and for

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Speaker 1: the Labor Party. This is reform. Are you happy just

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Speaker 1: to see these issues actually being discussed.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they're so worthy. I don't like the

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Speaker 2: flexibility and the date, so let's start there, and I

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Speaker 2: think it thereby becomes politicized when the timing can be

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Speaker 2: determined by the government of the day and everybody, including

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Speaker 2: the business community, is left uncertain and hanging on that decision.

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Speaker 2: So I think avoiding that by appointing a certain date

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Speaker 2: is a good thing for predictability and knowing when it's

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Speaker 2: coming and being able to plan your business your holiday

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Speaker 2: is everything. Around that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think they can actually fix the date

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Speaker 1: if it was just to be three years with a

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Speaker 1: fixed date, they can do that just with legislation that

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Speaker 1: doesn't require a referendum. If the government does move to

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Speaker 1: four year terms, that would require a referendum, and there

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Speaker 1: are reasons why you would do it. There are a

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Speaker 1: lot of reasons. Basically, consistency is one. Because every state

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Speaker 1: in Australia, with the exception I think of Tasmania, is

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Speaker 1: on four year terms. Everyone used to be three year terms.

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Speaker 1: That's why we have three year terms. That at federation

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Speaker 1: all of the individual states all had three year terms,

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Speaker 1: and so that it's decided, you know what, we'll make

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Speaker 1: it kind of three years federally as well. Everyone else

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Speaker 1: has now moved to four years. The federal system is

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Speaker 1: still based on three years. So it does make sense.

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Speaker 1: But there's also a benefit for governing because you spend

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Speaker 1: less time in campaign mode, right, and more time actually

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Speaker 1: governing the country.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that's just as critical is to have

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Speaker 2: an extended term because the three year term is proven

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Speaker 2: to be so short term in its thinking about what

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Speaker 2: you do when you do it and gearing that around

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Speaker 2: the electoral cycle. So I think it actually dictates how

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Speaker 2: we end up spending and investing and then the politicians

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Speaker 2: that we vote for.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the big challenge there is the fact that a

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Speaker 1: referendum is needed to actually get this through. And look,

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Speaker 1: Australia doesn't have a great track record in passing referendum.

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Speaker 2: We don't like a lot of change.

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Speaker 1: The funny thing is that in terms of four year terms,

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Speaker 1: politicians have been calling for this for years unilaterally.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, everyone seems to agree.

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Speaker 1: Yep, Yeah, we had John Howard was in favor of it,

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Speaker 1: Kim Beasley, Bob Hawke, Peter Dutton supported this is in

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Speaker 1: the lead up to the last election. Anthony Alberanezi has

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Speaker 1: spoken in the past about the fact that this is

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Speaker 1: what we should be doing. It is it makes sense

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Speaker 1: for business, for government, for the.

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Speaker 2: People, and yet we still don't have it.

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Speaker 1: The only person who has taken it to a referendum

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Speaker 1: is Bob Hawk and he did this in the in

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Speaker 1: the eighties and got smashed. He did it was like

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Speaker 1: the second lowest no vote in history was for that,

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Speaker 1: wasn't it. Yeah, Yeah, it was. It was horrendous and

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Speaker 1: so you'd want to make sure that this actually was

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Speaker 1: something that was going to get through, because the last

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Speaker 1: thing the country needs is the expense and the oxygen

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Speaker 1: kind of being consumed into another referendum campaign that is

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Speaker 1: going to be defeated in the end.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there was so much for form was accomplished at

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Speaker 2: that time too, and not necessarily to be going back

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Speaker 2: into that, but just to relay what happens. You know,

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Speaker 2: we had the floating of the currency, we had superannuation,

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Speaker 2: We had so many really important changes through that time,

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Speaker 2: but this was apparently a step too far for the

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Speaker 2: audience of the day, that being the electric and.

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Speaker 1: There's an impact. The other argument is that there's an

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Speaker 1: impact on the Senate as well, because the Senate has

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Speaker 1: six year terms and every time you have a federal election,

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Speaker 1: it is typically a half Senate election where half the

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Speaker 1: senators are elected and then going for a new six

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Speaker 1: year term. Simple solution, just make it eight year terms, right,

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Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden you can kind of

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Speaker 1: keep everything going. So these are not insurmountable challenges, but

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Speaker 1: it is good to see this being discussed, and I

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Speaker 1: think you made the most important point early is that

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Speaker 1: it would provide certainty for everyone, and in particular for

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Speaker 1: a podcast like this. It would provide certainty for business.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and look, to me, that's the most critical ingredient.

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Speaker 2: And we seem to do some things that keep getting

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Speaker 2: in the way and this is one of them. And

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Speaker 2: why not just clear that path? It seems to have

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Speaker 2: so much support, it seems to have so much logic

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Speaker 2: behind it. What is stopping us?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Well, how do you feel about it, Michael?

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Speaker 1: I think it makes perfect sense. I like the consistency

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Speaker 1: with other states, But I like this idea of not

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Speaker 1: having to having a government get back into campaign mode

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Speaker 1: at the two and a quarter year mark. Just if

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Speaker 1: it was suddenly three and a half years of actual

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Speaker 1: governing and getting things done rather than just suddenly moving

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Speaker 1: straight back into campaign mode and trying to put the

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Speaker 1: government back into caretaker mode and nothing actually happen. It

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Speaker 1: makes sense, right.

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Speaker 2: It does. Now another question would it actually help the

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Speaker 2: liberals because they probably need a bit of time to

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Speaker 2: rebuild it extended to actually be in there interested the moment.

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Speaker 1: The downside is that if you get stuck with a

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Speaker 1: bad government, it is it is a long time, and

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Speaker 1: it is a fixed term and you are there for

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Speaker 1: the full four years. But also you get what.

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Speaker 2: You vote for as always vote wisely.

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Speaker 1: Now, the other big issue here was expanding the number

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Speaker 1: of electorates and increasing interesting. Yeah, this is an interesting

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Speaker 1: one because the last time it happened in a meaningful

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Speaker 1: way was again in the eighties under Bob Hawk, when

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Speaker 1: it went from it was it one hundred and twenty.

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Speaker 2: Five to one hundred and forty eight.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and in the end there's been kind of minor

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Speaker 1: increases to one fifty. It went up to one fifty

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Speaker 1: one at one point back to one fifty. As basically

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Speaker 1: redistributions within electorates and just population movement makes perfect sense.

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Speaker 1: The reason why this is back on the agenda or

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Speaker 1: on the agenda now after what forty odd years, is

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Speaker 1: because the population has grown so much and continues to absolutely.

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Speaker 1: When that last change was made in nineteen eighty four,

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Speaker 1: the average population represented by each member of the Lower

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Speaker 1: House was one hundred and five thousand people. Right now

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Speaker 1: it is more than one hundred and seventy five thousand.

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Speaker 2: How on, that's busy like for every politician, Yeah, how

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Speaker 2: do your service an electric that big?

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Speaker 1: Because that goes back that's the challenge, right, goes back

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Speaker 1: to the job of a politician. It is not just

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Speaker 1: to be in Canberra and to be speaking in Parliament

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Speaker 1: House and to be voting on legislation. It is to

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Speaker 1: be representing the community and to be hearing the concerns

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Speaker 1: of your community and speaking with them.

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Speaker 2: Right absolutely, I mean even down to potholes in the streets,

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Speaker 2: garbage collection, local amenities, parks. There's so much that needs

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Speaker 2: attending to. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And the only con I think that I can

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Speaker 1: find to this is it would be more expensive all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden you you add on another twenty seats,

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Speaker 1: or you don't.

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Speaker 2: Need a new House of Parliament do we that? I mean,

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Speaker 2: we've got one big enough already that could probably fit.

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Speaker 1: That does always look like there is plenty of space,

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Speaker 1: right And whenever they have like a joint sitting and

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Speaker 1: everyone in there, they managed to fit the whole Senate

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Speaker 1: in there on occasions, So why not do it?

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Speaker 2: What about the UK Parliament there's like six hundred and

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Speaker 2: fifty members and when they're all in in that ancient building,

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Speaker 2: breeding in there.

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Speaker 1: Well, look, I think if it was up to us,

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Speaker 1: would we pass both of these measures in here today?

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Speaker 2: Adams? Okay, so locking down the timing, yes, making four

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Speaker 2: year terms happen. Yes, expanding the number I think Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I think so there's a logic to that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, especially if it means that there is greater representation

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Speaker 1: for people. Because when at the time of federation, the

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Speaker 1: population was so small that there was fifty thousand people

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Speaker 1: per Lower House MP, and now we're up to one

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Speaker 1: hundred and seventy seven thousand, it is time to rethink that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, and thematically too, I think we're progressively in

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Speaker 2: an international world, right, So, yes, we have local council,

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Speaker 2: state government, federal government, but so many of our interests

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Speaker 2: I think are moving to be national and that's probably

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Speaker 2: appropriate forum to have a lot of these debates.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't want to be cocky, but I think

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Speaker 1: we could pretty much run the country from this studio, Adam,

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Speaker 1: I feel like we've answered some of the biggest.

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Speaker 2: Questions benevolent dictatorship by fear and greed.

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Speaker 1: That's right.

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Speaker 2: I'm up for it.

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Speaker 1: Thank you very much, Adam. Thank you, Michael, And now

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Speaker 1: if you've got something that you'd like to know, then

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Speaker 1: please send through your question on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, or

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Speaker 1: at fearangreed dot com. Today you I'm Michael Thompson, and

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Speaker 1: this is fear and greed q and a