Speaker 1: Welcome to First things First, I'm Blett in my pronounce a.
Speaker 2: She my Maddie Mills, and my pronouns are he and him.
Speaker 2: And before we get started, we'd like to acknowledge the
Speaker 2: custodians of the land of which we record.
Speaker 1: And today we are both in studio and we're in
Speaker 1: Roderi Country, part of the Pools Nation. Maddie, how don't
Speaker 1: feel like to be a mum?
Speaker 2: It's cold, It's.
Speaker 1: Always okay, So I feel a bit lighter today the
Speaker 1: last week, do you. I don't tell him my secret
Speaker 1: meadow mus metamucal we actually get that fiber intake. No,
Speaker 1: I'm feeling lighter, not for any particular reason other than
Speaker 1: I have cried a fuck load in the last couple
Speaker 1: of days. I've just finished my it's called SFA, which
Speaker 1: is a voice assessment. It's about finding your voice, which
Speaker 1: is amazing and it has been really like useful and
Speaker 1: helpful throughout you know, acting.
Speaker 2: But that I didn't know.
Speaker 1: Triggered No, well fuck them, I'm here bound my boys
Speaker 1: and it's here. But it made me think. And I'm
Speaker 1: not saying this in any disrespect to my teacher or
Speaker 1: my class or what we've achieved because it was the
Speaker 1: most amazing experience doing this this course. It was liberating,
Speaker 1: Like imagine, you know, singing in front of your class,
Speaker 1: or if you've never had the confidence to sing out
Speaker 1: loud or sing in front of people, getting the confidence
Speaker 1: or the ability to do that, and I think, so.
Speaker 2: You did that on your Instagram. It was a great reaction.
Speaker 1: Well thanks, But I've been starting to play with the
Speaker 1: idea of singing to an audience because if I can't
Speaker 1: even do that, I won't be able to perform, you know,
Speaker 1: So I've just got to do the thing. There's a
Speaker 1: whole thing about doing the thing. But it actually reminded
Speaker 1: me when I'm pulling myself out of it, how sucked
Speaker 1: in you get to environments and how much you're in
Speaker 1: it that it can seem a bit culty.
Speaker 2: It's not.
Speaker 1: My class is not a cult. But it had me
Speaker 1: thinking about different because I feel like, you know, we
Speaker 1: call it industries, institutions or institutions, yes, but how many
Speaker 1: there are out there that we don't know about that
Speaker 1: you're just so consumed by.
Speaker 2: Environment that happens in institutions a lot like whether it's
Speaker 2: universities when you're you know, studying. You're so laser focused
Speaker 2: on this and committed to being a part of this.
Speaker 2: You drink the kool aid and you're a part of
Speaker 2: this like environment exactly. So I remember when I first
Speaker 2: got to Perth and I went to acting school. When
Speaker 2: I got to the institution, it was like nothing outside
Speaker 2: of that bubble matted. You were creative the whole time,
Speaker 2: and when you weren't creative, you were you know, surrounded
Speaker 2: by your acting friends or your your classmates, and everyone
Speaker 2: spoke about the craft. So it does become a bit
Speaker 2: like overwhelming and a little bit culty because that's the
Speaker 2: that's the topic, that's the interest. And when you're speaking
Speaker 2: outside of that, I think that like it almost feels
Speaker 2: foreign when you're in the environment. This happened with me
Speaker 2: and Basloman, So okay, I'm not saying that it was
Speaker 2: a cult, but when I was about.
Speaker 1: Working for him is an environment in itself.
Speaker 2: When we were film industry, that's right. When we're working
Speaker 2: on Elvis, we purely spoke about the film, and at
Speaker 2: times when we were eating and we were having a
Speaker 2: break in production, he would say, let's gossip, which meant
Speaker 2: that let's talk about something other than the film.
Speaker 1: And so, but why is a gossip when it's just not.
Speaker 2: It wasn't gossipled or it was political, but that was
Speaker 2: his terminology. You know, it was political stuff. It was
Speaker 2: like talking about what was happening in the current political climate.
Speaker 2: It was you know, the pop news that was happening
Speaker 2: in the media. But then you know, I understand why
Speaker 2: that's needed in those environments, otherwise people get distracted.
Speaker 1: Well, it's project based, right, so most of you know,
Speaker 1: these institutions or I guess industries are led by you know,
Speaker 1: getting a project done. So like I guess, like the
Speaker 1: batch thorreat like you're in an environment you know, it's
Speaker 1: not a cult.
Speaker 2: That's getting cold.
Speaker 1: Well, to be fair, like that's all you're consumed.
Speaker 2: By, like weeks of living in the same house and
Speaker 2: the same people doing the.
Speaker 1: Same thing, and no wonder you get so you know,
Speaker 1: your rose colored glasses on because no, but quite literally
Speaker 1: and metaphorically as well, like you are so consumed by it.
Speaker 1: So I can understand how cults work in a sense
Speaker 1: because I've never been to a level of being a
Speaker 1: part of one, but I can imagine how easy it
Speaker 1: would be to get sucked into one.
Speaker 2: Wouldn't it be fun to go under cover into.
Speaker 1: It, right?
Speaker 2: Would you do that?
Speaker 1: I reckon, I would, I would, And I reckon I'm
Speaker 1: pretty like I'm easily persuaded in a way that i
Speaker 1: can pull myself out of it.
Speaker 2: I sure, but I definitely think that you have the
Speaker 2: tendencies of being taken into a cult.
Speaker 1: What are you saying to what you said, I just think.
Speaker 2: That you're easily persuaded. You'd be thinking, you know, you
Speaker 2: would try and find the best in the environment and
Speaker 2: the opportunity, and you'll be like, you know, making you
Speaker 2: you would think.
Speaker 1: That everyone has is that my red flag?
Speaker 2: Like my people have good intentions?
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I do believe I've been brought up to
Speaker 1: believe that everyone has good intentions.
Speaker 2: Like obviously true.
Speaker 1: I know that's what I'm slowly learning. But let my
Speaker 1: heart be my heart.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's why you're going to be poured into a
Speaker 2: cult because you're just like, let me be I'm like,
Speaker 2: jump the fences.
Speaker 1: No, my heart is big, it's raw sensity.
Speaker 2: And you're the perfect candidate for.
Speaker 1: Them to know I'm vulnerable. I'm gad get it.
Speaker 2: But if it was a cult and you were you know,
Speaker 2: sucked into one. What do you think it would be.
Speaker 1: Well, I feel like I'm already semi part of a
Speaker 1: acting cult because all I want to do is hang
Speaker 1: out with my acting friends and people in the industry
Speaker 1: and like my people. But also at the same time,
Speaker 1: maybe it's not really cult. It's just like feeling inspired
Speaker 1: and creative and all I want to do is hang
Speaker 1: out with great people. It's how you word things.
Speaker 2: Well, that's what I heard when I watched the doco
Speaker 2: on Netflix from the Tit Top Dances the seven M doco.
Speaker 1: Right, have you been dancing on TikTok?
Speaker 2: Slately, girl, I'm a part of it. Look yeah, look
Speaker 2: I say, I'm gullible. Everyone has a price twenty dollars.
Speaker 2: Sound that absolutely give me the money. I was emoji,
Speaker 2: I'm there. The docar these you know, TikTok Christian dancers
Speaker 2: are a part of this seven M management company that
Speaker 2: have basically got them on board, created these blind faith
Speaker 2: within them that their money and their things that they're
Speaker 2: earning and the content they're creating is all going to
Speaker 2: the greater good. Yet they're being sucked dry by the
Speaker 2: management and the guy who runs the church to the
Speaker 2: point where the content is have lost contact with their family.
Speaker 2: Their family don't even have access to them to communicate
Speaker 2: with them. And one of them is a twin sister
Speaker 2: who was brought up with her sister, danced on TikTok
Speaker 2: and they had such an incredible relationship. This girl goes
Speaker 2: off to La becomes a part of this cult and
Speaker 2: loses all emotional connection and there's not in touch with
Speaker 2: her family, and the family go there and try and
Speaker 2: track it down and you know, get to the bottom
Speaker 2: of it. But that's a fucked up cult because they're
Speaker 2: using religion as the base.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, which we that's kind of how we
Speaker 1: know about cults, right also on the religious base, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, conversion and Christianity.
Speaker 2: This is people weaponizing religion and Christianity.
Speaker 1: I watched it, and the thing I find interesting, not
Speaker 1: the funny thing, is that the main girl that it's about,
Speaker 1: who's separated from her twin sister, she's just still doing
Speaker 1: her normal life. And imagine, like this whole documentary is
Speaker 1: about you, and I don't know, like there hasn't really
Speaker 1: been a response from the Like she came out and
Speaker 1: said her family were wrong, and like none of what
Speaker 1: they're saying is true, Like, yeah, she did probably like
Speaker 1: disclose that, but it's like, what do you want to
Speaker 1: believe a documentary or like an Instagram story.
Speaker 2: Well, the thing is she has absolutely been you know,
Speaker 2: brainwashed by the guy who leads I think his name
Speaker 2: is Robert Chakaina and.
Speaker 1: That's the church.
Speaker 2: The church, yeah, and.
Speaker 1: The guy's name is Robert Robert Shin or something. Yeah.
Speaker 2: But then they did dis and digging and they found
Speaker 2: that there was you know, other people before this girl
Speaker 2: who had experienced the exact same thing, and they left.
Speaker 2: Yeah they did.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so they fully like unraveled whistle blower vibes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but how can you say that you go there,
Speaker 2: you have connection with your family and then you lose
Speaker 2: everyone excepting the tution that you're.
Speaker 1: A part of isolating yourself.
Speaker 2: So do you think that they realize that because it
Speaker 2: doesn't seem like they have any idea that that has.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but like surely you would get to a point
Speaker 1: like I would think, like say, if I went and
Speaker 1: joined a cult now, like you guys would be like, Okay,
Speaker 1: that's bit odd that she's got no Like if you've
Speaker 1: just split off full communication with people, that you would
Speaker 1: see like every day or hang out with every day.
Speaker 1: So yeah, but gods concerned, right, and you'd be probably
Speaker 1: trying to make me aware, of course, And I think
Speaker 1: surely you would have some like feeling or moral compass
Speaker 1: or something it's in you that's like this is this
Speaker 1: doesn't feel right? Yeah, or maybe again you're completely brainwashed
Speaker 1: and you're thinking, you know, you've got a higher value
Speaker 1: of what you want and what you want to achieve.
Speaker 1: That's what they're giving you. So like if it's like
Speaker 1: someone was like, hey, like, if you work for me
Speaker 1: for ten years minimum and I'm going to give you
Speaker 1: this amount of money every year, would you do it?
Speaker 2: Would I do it to the cost.
Speaker 1: Of because maybe it's maybe.
Speaker 2: It's been black man, I wouldn't.
Speaker 1: It's so complex. That's the whole point of this is
Speaker 1: like it's cults are very complex.
Speaker 2: I think the main thing about cults is that there's
Speaker 2: a psychological power that exactly that you don't have a
Speaker 2: control of. So you're you know, your you're brainwashed. You
Speaker 2: put into a position where you feel like whatever they
Speaker 2: say is right, whatever they say is the is the
Speaker 2: right way, even to the point where he said in
Speaker 2: the documentary, I remember him saying something about the fact
Speaker 2: that you need to cut off your family members, like
Speaker 2: you don't need to have contact with them. If you
Speaker 2: want to be so spiritually connected and strengthened with God,
Speaker 2: you need to cut everyone else off except me. And
Speaker 2: this was his message from God.
Speaker 1: It's like the Robert isn't God.
Speaker 2: He thinks he doesn't he.
Speaker 1: Yeah. See, that's that's where I have the issue. The
Speaker 1: issue it's like when people like this is a horror complex, yes,
Speaker 1: and when people blow up something and they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: well God made me do it. No, he fucking did it.
Speaker 1: No one makes you do anything you did that. I
Speaker 1: hate that whole God complex. Like I'm not really a
Speaker 1: religious base, but yeah, when someone says like, oh no,
Speaker 1: God made me do it, Like my dad is super religious,
Speaker 1: but he comes from a different place where he's like,
Speaker 1: God makes me do all these good things. Well you
Speaker 1: know what I mean.
Speaker 2: The mental teachings of Christianity, if we're going to use
Speaker 2: that as an example, is love right and not to
Speaker 2: be judgmental. Yet all I saw in this this documentary
Speaker 2: was Robert being judgmental everyone outside of that.
Speaker 1: So it's like a power thing.
Speaker 2: I want to ask, like if they you know, they
Speaker 2: realize they have that moment. Aham fucking a part of
Speaker 2: this institution. How do you get out? What do you do?
Speaker 1: Run away?
Speaker 2: Run away? But then the psychological damage true?
Speaker 1: They yep.
Speaker 2: I mean it's a good lawsuit. You could get some money,
Speaker 2: you could sue the institution.
Speaker 1: I don't know what I would do in that situation,
Speaker 1: Like I don't know. Like I've also been a part
Speaker 1: of where in my life. When I was about eighteen,
Speaker 1: I looked to God or I looked to church to
Speaker 1: find some community and find some stability, which you know
Speaker 1: I could have been easily. I guess what did you
Speaker 1: take it down that environment? I just I didn't have
Speaker 1: many I didn't have much support. I was very isolated myself,
Speaker 1: and I didn't choose that that was just that suddening
Speaker 1: just happened. So I was looking for support, and I
Speaker 1: was looking for stability, and I was looking for encouragement.
Speaker 1: And I got that to a certain degree in a level.
Speaker 1: But then I went and found it myself in other
Speaker 1: avenues because I looked to other avenues and I didn't
Speaker 1: rely heavily on like Christianity churches and God giving me
Speaker 1: that there was it was start and an exploration, but
Speaker 1: it wasn't my conclusion and my solution.
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. I think that what people seek within the
Speaker 2: church is you know, probably something that we get from
Speaker 2: our community anyway. Exactly. Yeah, I think that like black follows,
Speaker 2: I must say that, you know, I believe in God.
Speaker 2: I believe that there is a connection between me and
Speaker 2: a high power. I don't know what that looks like.
Speaker 2: I don't know in what form that that is, but
Speaker 2: for me, I definitely feel a connection to a divine being.
Speaker 2: I don't know what. I don't know. If it's my ancestors,
Speaker 2: I don't know, if it's the people have come before me,
Speaker 2: if it's God, if it's I don't know, is it
Speaker 2: fucking one of the teletubbies. Who knows? But I feel it,
Speaker 2: and so it's it is a bit of a you know,
Speaker 2: faith based for that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you can you have control over how you
Speaker 1: pick and choose how that relationship.
Speaker 2: But I'm not blind, exactly, I'm not. I don't have
Speaker 2: blind trust or blind faith. Why does the church always
Speaker 2: come down to money as well?
Speaker 1: That's what I concerned there. Yes, and if we look
Speaker 1: at also like historically the damage that institutions per se
Speaker 1: have had on people and that type of environment. It
Speaker 1: is a bit like not similar, but there is sort
Speaker 1: of a partly like a similarity to a Guess mission
Speaker 1: and stolen generation.
Speaker 2: Well, speaking of that, let's have a look at this
Speaker 2: little case study. So the Family Cult is one of
Speaker 2: Australia's most popular and well known.
Speaker 1: Cult that was here in Melbourne.
Speaker 2: It was, Yeah, it was the notorious Dooms. They cult
Speaker 2: operated just outside Melbourne between nineteen sixty three and nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty nine. It was led by Anne Hamilton Byrne, who
Speaker 2: claimed she was the female reincarnation of Jesus Christ.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The two to collect kids and raise them on her
Speaker 2: own property and keep them away from the apocalypse. The
Speaker 2: members were brainwashed the kids. Their hair was dyed blonde and.
Speaker 1: They're trying to make them the same, giving a similar.
Speaker 2: It's getting assimilation in the stolen gin.
Speaker 1: Right, and these are white people. This is in Melbourne.
Speaker 1: This is what year did you say?
Speaker 2: It was in nineteen sixty three to nineteen eighty nine.
Speaker 1: That's insane, So up to the nineteen eighties.
Speaker 2: It's interesting that I was in Melbourne. This sounds like
Speaker 2: the Family from mulummimbi, you know, one of those hippie families.
Speaker 1: What it's giving. Yeah, it feels like that, but that's
Speaker 1: a very like trying to twenty.
Speaker 2: Eight kids were taken and raised identically.
Speaker 1: So when people get outraged about that, why are they
Speaker 1: not outraged about the Stolen Generation?
Speaker 2: Well, exactly, I mean because.
Speaker 1: That happened in nineteen eighty and I'm sure there was
Speaker 1: probably protests or people angry about that situation where kids
Speaker 1: were taken not Aboriginal kids, but non Aboriginal and to
Speaker 1: austral Under kids.
Speaker 2: But I wonder how many of these kids could have
Speaker 2: been Aboriginal as well.
Speaker 1: Exactly. True, that is a study there, but this doesn't
Speaker 1: seem too different to what's happening in institutions like the
Speaker 1: Department of Child Protection, which is still taking kids to
Speaker 1: this day. And my sister is living proof of that,
Speaker 1: like as soon as she gave birth to her child,
Speaker 1: he was taken Adam. You know, like we talked about
Speaker 1: kinship on other episodes of how important it is to
Speaker 1: keep kids with family, like they've proven it. They're making
Speaker 1: it so difficult to remain contact with him, you know,
Speaker 1: it's so frustrating. But anyways, like going back to I
Speaker 1: guess cults and the similarities of you know, between institutions
Speaker 1: and cults as well, Like.
Speaker 2: It's at least you're getting something out of an institution,
Speaker 2: you know, a diploma, when.
Speaker 1: You're what are you getting psychological distress from a cult?
Speaker 2: But it's because it needs a focus. I suppose, you know,
Speaker 2: cults there's outside of an institution or like a university course,
Speaker 2: there's no real personal gain.
Speaker 1: Like niche cults are out there other than the ones
Speaker 1: we're spoken about. If any black fellow cults, well, you
Speaker 1: know what it would you about the Black theater That
Speaker 1: would be kind of similar. Not not a cult, but like.
Speaker 2: You know, what about the sovereign Black movement? Like you know,
Speaker 2: like not a cult, but like.
Speaker 1: Even given those vibes, you know, maybe maybe I'll start
Speaker 1: a cult.
Speaker 2: What would your cult be?
Speaker 1: The crying club let your feelings out? Nah, I don't.
Speaker 2: Laugh, you'll cry exactly. Don't cry your fart.
Speaker 1: You don't let it out? Oh it will let out anyways.
Speaker 2: That note on that note.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is no This has been a very interesting conversation.
Speaker 1: I think there's so many complexities to it. I think
Speaker 1: there would be some really niche cults like I feel
Speaker 1: like it's like I don't know, there'd be a cult
Speaker 1: like we only drink almond milk cult, or like the
Speaker 1: matcha cult. Yes, a part of that is the head
Speaker 1: of that one let me let me or.
Speaker 2: The health and wellness girls.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd easily be a part of a health and
Speaker 1: wellness cult for sure. Like sign me up.
Speaker 2: You just have to slow your voice down and talk.
Speaker 1: Talk and take teap breaths in on three one two three.
Speaker 1: Well that's all we have time today.
Speaker 2: I'm so happy I joined your cult.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening to first things first, as always,
Speaker 1: if we've made you laugh today or we've made you cry, happy, fun,
Speaker 1: whatever you want, leave us a rating and a little review, and.
Speaker 2: If you want to tell us anything, join our cult.
Speaker 1: I'll reach out by our socials, which is also a cult.
Speaker 1: My hand was like Brooke doup Bton. Maddie's head was
Speaker 1: that it's Maddie Meals and we'll see you in the
Speaker 1: next episode. Bye bye. Can't somebody
Speaker 2: M