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Speaker 1: Apodge production. Out on a red dirt track south of Broom.

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Speaker 1: A road roller sits humming in the afternoon heat. It's Thursday,

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Speaker 1: second of August nineteen seventy nine, around three pm. Thirty

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Speaker 1: two year old road worker Desmond Francis car is seen

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Speaker 1: beside that machine, nine kilometers south of Thango Station. An

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Speaker 1: hour later, the foreman comes back.

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Speaker 2: The roller is still running. Des is gone.

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Speaker 1: Des was a hard working bloke on a remote main

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Speaker 1: roads camp. His ute, his clothes, his money all left

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Speaker 1: at camp. No note, no sign he planned to go anywhere.

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Speaker 1: When he didn't turn up for pickup, the crew searched.

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Speaker 1: Police were called the next day. Over the following days,

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Speaker 1: fifty seven volunteers and officers pushed through thick bush. An

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Speaker 1: aircraft swept the country from above. Nothing not a footprint

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Speaker 1: they could follow to an answer.

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Speaker 3: Thinking he may have quit work early, the fore man

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Speaker 3: didn't raise the alarm until after the weekend. Gwen and

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Speaker 3: her father then flew from Perth to Room and visited

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Speaker 3: the road cruise camp.

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Speaker 2: There's another part of this story.

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Speaker 1: In the weeks leading up to his disappearance, Des had

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Speaker 1: been unwell, blackouts, head knocks in his past epilepsy, splitting headaches,

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Speaker 1: stomach trouble.

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Speaker 4: There had been a fight with a couple of guys

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Speaker 4: and one picked up a chair and threw it and

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Speaker 4: he just happened to be in the way and got

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Speaker 4: hid in the head, went into the room and there

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Speaker 4: was all blood on his pillow.

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Speaker 1: Colleagues said he'd barely eaten and the day before he vanished.

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Speaker 1: His behavior seemed off in a place where the scrub

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Speaker 1: can swallow you in minutes. Disorientation can be deadly. There

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Speaker 1: were rumors UFOs.

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Speaker 5: My eldest sister, Gwen, she believed, didn't you know, it

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Speaker 5: was all very fashed week we thought, not knowing what

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Speaker 5: was going on.

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Speaker 2: Another man decades on.

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Speaker 6: There was a witness that came forward in two thousand

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Speaker 6: and fourteen. He believed he saw Des at a certain

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Speaker 6: location and he provided a map.

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Speaker 7: It was not a Nayga's past. I don't dance think

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Speaker 7: of him.

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Speaker 5: I often get his spaders out into.

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Speaker 1: Forty two years later, in twenty twenty one, the deputy

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Speaker 1: state coroner ruled that Des likely died on or around

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Speaker 1: the day he went missing.

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Speaker 8: It's been more than twenty five years, but police have

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Speaker 8: reopened the file on a man who might just as

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Speaker 8: well have disappeared into thin air.

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Speaker 1: Cause and manner of death unknown, No remains, no certainty.

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Speaker 1: But there is a family, sisters who never stopped asking,

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Speaker 1: a niece and nephew who kept Dez's name in the

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Speaker 1: public eye through media, podcasts, appeals, anything that might shake.

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Speaker 2: Loose the truth.

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Speaker 6: I think it ended with my mum and Dad's flower.

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Speaker 6: We should have done.

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Speaker 1: In twenty twenty, his surviving sisters gave DNA, hoping one

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Speaker 1: day science might do what the search lines could not.

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Speaker 1: This is not a story about a man who chose

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Speaker 1: to disappear. It's a story about a man who vanished

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Speaker 1: in one of the most unforgiving landscapes in Australia. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to the missing matter. There's matters.

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Speaker 5: If I'm watching TV of a nighttime and you see

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Speaker 5: somebody say, oh cool, you know that looks like these

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Speaker 5: terrible feeling you never forget it all right, Well, hi Jay,

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Speaker 5: heyself sitting here together, it feels different.

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Speaker 6: It's feel weird for me because I'm normally the one

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Speaker 6: doing the interviews.

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Speaker 5: Yes, you're normally the one controlling the conversation. And I'm

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Speaker 5: going to sit here and try and ask you some

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Speaker 5: questions and dig a little deep into your uncle Dez.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, it's interesting that we're having this chat and how

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Speaker 6: we're having this chat and how paths cross. I guess

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Speaker 6: I'm a little bit spiritual. But at the same point,

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Speaker 6: I think there's a point in our lives where we

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Speaker 6: meet people for reasons, and I think we met out

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Speaker 6: of a mutual friend and I knew your story, but

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Speaker 6: I never thought to reach out to you because you

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Speaker 6: had a massive podcast and yeah, like you were doing

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Speaker 6: your thing, and I do.

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Speaker 5: Get that a lot. I must say, in the missing space,

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Speaker 5: I do feel a bit lonely sometimes because I think

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Speaker 5: everyone thinks that old Sally's got this massive platform. So

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Speaker 5: sometimes I feel a bit lonely in the space. So

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Speaker 5: I think that's what probably drives me. I have an

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Speaker 5: understanding and a feeling and a deep connection with that feeling,

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Speaker 5: and I feel that for others. So I've had quite

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Speaker 5: a lot of people connect with me through my mum's story,

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Speaker 5: some of them in absolute stress of wanting to do

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Speaker 5: a similar thing. They want to do a they want

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Speaker 5: to talk to Headley, they want to talk to the

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Speaker 5: Australian newspaper. They want they're asking me questions. And I

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Speaker 5: have befriended those people and brought them in and honestly

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Speaker 5: want to share with them some help. You know, there's

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Speaker 5: one lady that she's so sad. When I call her,

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Speaker 5: she cries nearly the whole conversation, and she was telling

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Speaker 5: me how she couldn't even leave her house, and I

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Speaker 5: was trying to encourage her to just to go for

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Speaker 5: a walk, just go for a walk, to step outside

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Speaker 5: the steps and go for a walk and come back.

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Speaker 5: And then next day you might drive somewhere and go

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Speaker 5: and get a coffee, or the next day you might

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Speaker 5: drive to the beach. Your mental health can really mess

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Speaker 5: with you on this journey, and your missing person's case

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Speaker 5: is a long one where you know, we're stretching now

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Speaker 5: forty plus years it is, so it's been a long time.

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Speaker 5: And something that I've been wanting to do for a

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Speaker 5: little while now is try and help those people who

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Speaker 5: are living with a missing person who don't have a platform,

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Speaker 5: or they're getting shut doors because their story doesn't seem

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Speaker 5: to have enough trauma behind it to make it an

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Speaker 5: interesting story for sixty minutes to run. And I know

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Speaker 5: that myself, I had that door shut in my face

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Speaker 5: many many times. So now that we have that opportunity,

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Speaker 5: and you and I have been working together for the

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Speaker 5: last couple of months doing the Missing Matter Marion Matters,

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Speaker 5: and when I suggested to you we do something like this,

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Speaker 5: I found it quite interesting because I've gone back and

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Speaker 5: listened to your podcast that you did about Dez the

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Speaker 5: disappearance of des Car. I hear you saying that you

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Speaker 5: wanted to do something like this. So I'm just like,

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Speaker 5: oh my gosh, we're on the same page here, and

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Speaker 5: you are living your lived experience when l is what

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Speaker 5: we refer to. We're not here to solve cases, We're

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Speaker 5: here to bring awareness. And you know, from that, a

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Speaker 5: media outlet might go, that's a great story, let me

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Speaker 5: run it. Or an agency might go, you know what,

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Speaker 5: We've got new technology, let's help this family. Let's start

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Speaker 5: with maybe the obvious and tell me what made you

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Speaker 5: choose to do a podcast about Dez.

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Speaker 6: It was really simple. Airs was my first ever podcast.

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Speaker 6: I'd never listened to a podcast before, right, but I

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Speaker 6: happened to get a job as the head of podcasts

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Speaker 6: for a network. Yeah okay, and so it went deep

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Speaker 6: into podcasting really fast, and we were toying with all

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Speaker 6: sorts of different podcasts at the company I was working for.

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Speaker 6: It was really interesting, but we saw true crime as

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Speaker 6: like the big thing. This is in the days where

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Speaker 6: your podcast was out right, this is twenty nineteen, yeah, right,

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Speaker 6: twenty nineteen, twenty tween.

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Speaker 5: You released it funnily enough on the second of August

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Speaker 5: twenty nineteen. And for my listeners who know my story

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Speaker 5: will know that my mum's passport flew back into Australia

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Speaker 5: on the second of August nineteen ninety seven. So I

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Speaker 5: just went, oh, my god, there is a definite connector

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Speaker 5: here that we need to help tell the story. And

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Speaker 5: the reason you did that is, in my opinion, is

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Speaker 5: because that was the forty year anniversary. That's right, Dars

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Speaker 5: going miss.

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Speaker 6: It was really based on that day Because of there,

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Speaker 6: it probably took about nine months to do. In twenty eighteen,

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Speaker 6: my dad was ill that he's fine now, and I

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Speaker 6: decided to fly out to Perth where my family lives,

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Speaker 6: and go and visit everyone. So I actually just went

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Speaker 6: over by myself. My wife and kids stayed here. It

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Speaker 6: was school time. It was like busy, so so I

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Speaker 6: went over and Dad was in hospital. And I was

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Speaker 6: staying with my brother and my mum was at the

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Speaker 6: hospital a lot, and I sort of between the hospital

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Speaker 6: and my brother's house for a period of time. And

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Speaker 6: me and Mum were sitting on my brother's couch one

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Speaker 6: afternoon and we'd been at the hospital all day and

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Speaker 6: your dad was recovering and looked like he was going

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Speaker 6: to be okay. And I just said, Mom, do you

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Speaker 6: want to do She want to chat about Uncle Dav's

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Speaker 6: So my mom's brother, my mom's she was the youngest

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Speaker 6: of the family, She had two sisters, And so he

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Speaker 6: sat on the couch in my brother's house and Mum

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Speaker 6: was suffering at that stage with it wasn't diagnosed, but

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Speaker 6: it was definitely signs of early dementia, which is a horrible,

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Speaker 6: horrible disease. And we sat on the couch and I

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Speaker 6: just said, do you want to tell me about Uncle Daz. Now,

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Speaker 6: at that stage, Mum couldn't remember whether she'd maybe a

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Speaker 6: cup of tea or not. She could remember facts from

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Speaker 6: forty years ago. And so I opened up my voice recorder,

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Speaker 6: I stuck it on the table in front of me,

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Speaker 6: and we had a two hour chat about Daz.

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Speaker 9: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: So it's tenth of May two thousand and eighteen at lunchtime. Huh, okay,

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Speaker 6: how are you? It's a weird, isn't it? Good morning?

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Speaker 6: Good one afternoon afternoon. So we're going to ask a

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Speaker 6: whole bunch of questions about Uncle Daz, and I guess

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Speaker 6: the first question I want to know is what was

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Speaker 6: Uncle Daz like with me? Brother? A big what easy

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Speaker 6: to look after me? You know what I mean? Everything

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Speaker 6: was done for sure? Yeah? And was it all what

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Speaker 6: sort of cool? I'd say six?

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Speaker 5: And that recording would be quite precious to you now

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Speaker 5: that she has passed sadly it is it is.

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Speaker 6: It sits on my phone in my notes section. It's

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Speaker 6: called Mum Uncle Dez. From a memory perspective, it's really precious.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, And you probably could reflect back to and now

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Speaker 5: that you are doing podcasts and you own pod Shape

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Speaker 5: and you've produced a number of amazing podcasts to help

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Speaker 5: many people, you probably have a different appreciation to you

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Speaker 5: to how precious capturing chat is?

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Speaker 6: I so important?

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Speaker 5: I have realized that myself right doing my own investigations.

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Speaker 5: And it's not necessarily that you want to go and

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Speaker 5: put it on a podcast. It's just for you.

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Speaker 6: What was really interesting is I just got after chatting

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Speaker 6: with Mum for a couple of hours. We had a

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Speaker 6: lovely time and you know, I had some amazing stories,

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Speaker 6: which is all covered in the podcast, and then I

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Speaker 6: went I was it was like four or five when

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Speaker 6: Marcale went missing, so I don't really remember him, okay,

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Speaker 6: but I do remember the feelings that were going on

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Speaker 6: around our house, my grandma, Grandpap's house, mum's sister's house,

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Speaker 6: Like this feeling of it's not losing your keys, this

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Speaker 6: is like losing a brother or a son and going

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Speaker 6: and for you a mum are going what's happening? So

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Speaker 6: this feeling of dread is what I remember, and I've

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Speaker 6: no doubt got trauma over it that I haven't recognized

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Speaker 6: throughout the years, but and I no doubt we'll talk

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Speaker 6: about that later. I think what I found super interesting

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Speaker 6: is that I started just thinking about who do I

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Speaker 6: need to contact because I'm not a police officer. Ye,

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Speaker 6: I've done a fair bit in this space now, but

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Speaker 6: at the time, who's the first call after Mum, who

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Speaker 6: do I speak to?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that's something that I want to try and bring

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Speaker 5: awareness to in the space because there are a lot

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Speaker 5: of people who still go missing every day, right, so

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Speaker 5: I think we're up to some crazy number of you know,

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Speaker 5: over fifty thousand people going missing or reported missing every

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Speaker 5: year in Australia. There needs to be an understanding and

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Speaker 5: a conversation. I think I recently, as you know, spoke

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Speaker 5: to Gary Jubalan and he was you know, we were

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Speaker 5: having a big chat about that, and it's an important topic.

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Speaker 5: I think for a conversation to have so you know,

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Speaker 5: knowing what to do and where to turn to and

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Speaker 5: how to do it is really important if this sadly happens,

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Speaker 5: which it does to a lot of people.

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Speaker 6: When I started making conversations and calls to people, so

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Speaker 6: what happened Mark? After he's gone missing, everyone's done the

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Speaker 6: search and you know, there's some stuff going on. You

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Speaker 6: where did it end? And it just ended? He goes

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Speaker 6: into a police file, so we're talking the seventies, a

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Speaker 6: physical police file. He's in a filo compartment somewhere in

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Speaker 6: a police office in Western Australia.

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Speaker 5: Do you know where he is right now? Where that

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Speaker 5: file is?

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Speaker 6: Oh? Yeah, it's so because of the podcast, we do

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Speaker 6: a lot in missing persons in true crime, and we

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Speaker 6: speak to police a lot, and some of super helpful,

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Speaker 6: some aren't that helpful. The particular person I got at

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Speaker 6: missing persons in West Australia, the police officer was brilliant,

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Speaker 6: absolutely brilliant.

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Speaker 7: From what I understand, the search consisted of four groups

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Speaker 7: of eight persons who was sending to the bush to

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Speaker 7: walk a parallel line to the road, and there was

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Speaker 7: two groups on either side of the road walking in

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Speaker 7: north and south direction.

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Speaker 5: Because she was I found her very helpful actually, and

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Speaker 5: obviously myself, I've had many dealings with many different police

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Speaker 5: at many different levels, and I haven't had that. I

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Speaker 5: haven't had that connection. So some cases do, some cases don't,

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Speaker 5: So that's an interesting element.

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Speaker 6: She was brilliant and she actually told me, well, interestingly,

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Speaker 6: where in the process of all these long term missing persons,

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Speaker 6: where in the process of digitizing all of the things,

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Speaker 6: which is a big step, Like once something goes from

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Speaker 6: physical copy to digital copy, it's searchable, you know, it's

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Speaker 6: in a data base as opposed to in a filing cabinet.

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Speaker 6: And so that was for us the first step. It

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Speaker 6: was like, okay, great, what can we do to get

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Speaker 6: that information now?

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Speaker 5: And so do you think she was more open with you,

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Speaker 5: talking to you because des did go to an inquest

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Speaker 5: and the coroner did Dean that he died and that

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Speaker 5: no foul play. He just hasn't been found and therefore

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Speaker 5: he's deceased. Do you feel like that's why she was

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Speaker 5: open with you.

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Speaker 6: I just think she was a good person. Okay, I

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Speaker 6: don't know her reasons why, but the sense that I

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Speaker 6: got was that she genuinely felt that she could help.

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Speaker 6: And there's obviously a whole bunch of rules around what

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Speaker 6: she couldn't tell me and all of that stuff, which

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Speaker 6: is all privacy. But that was the other challenge. I'm

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Speaker 6: related to my uncle Dez, but he's my uncle. You're

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Speaker 6: not next of care, correct. My grandparents, who had both

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Speaker 6: passed by the time we started the podcast, couldn't say anything.

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Speaker 6: My mum had early onset dementia, one auntie had passed,

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Speaker 6: and my other auntie, Auntie Joy, was also older. Fantastic memory,

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Speaker 6: don't get me wrong, but they were I don't know

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Speaker 6: what we do.

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Speaker 5: How did she feel about you doing the podcast?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, that was my second call, So my second cause

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Speaker 6: to my auntie because obviously mum's sister. I said, listen,

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Speaker 6: I want to do a podcast. She asked what a

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Speaker 6: podcast was. I told her and then she said, of course,

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Speaker 6: of course, And I said, would you be prepared to

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Speaker 6: chat to me? She said of course. Those two sort

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Speaker 6: of gave me a green light to be able to

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Speaker 6: go into it. So I had my mom's conversation, I

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Speaker 6: had an early conversation with the police around what could

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Speaker 6: I access? And remember, I'm going at this like a novice.

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Speaker 6: I've never looked into this sort, not an investigator one

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Speaker 6: hundred percent.

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Speaker 5: So you're trying to learn baby steps, right, yeah, with

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Speaker 5: no one really guarding you.

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Speaker 6: Correct and there's no expert in and this in twenty

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Speaker 6: eighteen nineteen did I speak to Mauntie Joy and she

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Speaker 6: was wonderful and then we went about going, okay, what

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Speaker 6: do we do? And that's where things get really interesting.

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Speaker 5: So I guess one of the questions I want to

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Speaker 5: ask is did you guys find anything through that process

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Speaker 5: of doing the podcast and going public?

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Speaker 6: Yeah? We did, so as we sort of started searching

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Speaker 6: for things, we were able to grab things like my

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Speaker 6: mum and my Auntie had done various TV appearances back

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Speaker 6: in the late seventies early eighties. We're in Perth, so

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Speaker 6: I had a few content in Perth are able to

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Speaker 6: find the videos of them on Telly.

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Speaker 8: For more than a quarter of a century, des Car's

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Speaker 8: devastated family has searched in Vain for answers.

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Speaker 6: Adrian Betty reports I was on August the second.

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Speaker 3: It was a Monday Day's Car's sister will never forget

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Speaker 3: the day her family's nightmare began from.

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Speaker 6: I was then able to speak more with the police

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Speaker 6: and say, what do they recall about what happened? Can

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Speaker 6: I go to the search results? Now, not a lot

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Speaker 6: of this stuff's on Google at the time, Like you

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Speaker 6: can't just google it and chat. Chipet wasn't around, so

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Speaker 6: you can't just Google and find all the information about Daz.

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Speaker 6: It was largely left up to talking with the family,

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Speaker 6: talking with my mum and her sister, I joy and

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Speaker 6: then corresponding that with what police said.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, okay.

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Speaker 6: As a kid, I always had this eerie story you

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Speaker 6: heard at the start of the show. He's working on

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Speaker 6: a road roller in the middle of nowhere. Drop him off

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Speaker 6: in the morning. They come back at four o'clock that afternoon.

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Speaker 6: His road roll is still there. It's still on his lunch,

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Speaker 6: is there his water bottles there and there's no tracks

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Speaker 6: around him. As a kid, that's a scary story, but

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Speaker 6: as an adult, it's a mystery that you go so

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Speaker 6: what happened to him?

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Speaker 5: Yeah? When I was listening to the podcast just to

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Speaker 5: get some background on des and the story, I found

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Speaker 5: it quite confronting, the whole idea of a UFO. But

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Speaker 5: you've got the police actually saying that there was weird

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Speaker 5: lights in the sky and it's being reported in America,

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Speaker 5: and you know so, I think when you're so desperate

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Speaker 5: for the answers, you will grab and grapple with any

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Speaker 5: concept or any idea, and that can be very challenging

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Speaker 5: for your head and your heart.

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Speaker 6: That UFO's story. Mum didn't remember it as much when

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Speaker 6: I spoke to her by the time we spoke in eighteen,

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Speaker 6: but I remember growing up with that story like that

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Speaker 6: was the thing. It was probably UFOs.

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Speaker 5: And is it because there was not a footprint in

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Speaker 5: the red dirt that he was working on for everyone,

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Speaker 5: so that they're clear. So he's on a stretch of

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Speaker 5: road that goes for what fifty kilometers right, a long way, yeah,

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Speaker 5: and he works for main roads and they drop him

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Speaker 5: off and everything's there working as it should like, even

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Speaker 5: the roller is still kicking over like it's not being

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Speaker 5: turned off. So if he'd gone to the toilet, you'd

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Speaker 5: think that when he jumped off, there potentially would be

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Speaker 5: a footprint in the sand.

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Speaker 6: So this is a road just to give you the idea.

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Speaker 6: A road roller is like a steamroller before.

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Speaker 5: They lay bitchmen. Correct, right, they're building a right.

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Speaker 6: So there's and up that way we're talking northwest Australia,

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Speaker 6: there's red dirt and so if you were to step

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Speaker 6: off the road roller, which is compacting dirt to be

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Speaker 6: able to put gravel and they put bitchumen on, there

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Speaker 6: would be a footprint. It was a big it's a

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Speaker 6: big unit. He's tall. Yeah, you would expect that there

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Speaker 6: would be a footprints. So the fact that there were

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Speaker 6: no footprints there, the fact that all of his stuff

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Speaker 6: was still at the camp, so that UFO's story was

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Speaker 6: a big one. You know. As we started to investigate

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Speaker 6: and we then start finding out more, we find out that, yeah,

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Speaker 6: all of his stuff was still in his camp. We

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Speaker 6: found out that he'd been in a fight a couple

377
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Speaker 6: of weeks before. Apparently he drunk a fair bit. You

378
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Speaker 6: know back probably in the seventies where five FO workers

379
00:20:39,241 --> 00:20:43,160
Speaker 6: were working up there. The two things would drink and work.

380
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Speaker 5: And he had a trauma, right Like, his friend went

381
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Speaker 5: to Vietnam and he died shortly after going. So after

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Speaker 5: that he started drinking quitefully.

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Speaker 6: The fact that everything was still where he was. He'd

384
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Speaker 6: be talking about coming home for Christmas, He'd bought a dog, like,

385
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Speaker 6: all of these things sort of went. He didn't really

386
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Speaker 6: want to go missing because if he did that, why

387
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Speaker 6: would you do any of that stuff?

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Speaker 5: Well, these are the things we have to go back

389
00:21:07,360 --> 00:21:09,960
Speaker 5: and dig really deep into, right, Like am I right

390
00:21:10,001 --> 00:21:11,801
Speaker 5: in thinking that he bought an outfit or something to

391
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Speaker 5: wear to Christmas? And he told someone, Yeah.

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Speaker 6: That was all laid out in his room. I think

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Speaker 6: you've said it in your podcast. If your mum was

394
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Speaker 6: planning on going missing and never seeing you again, she

395
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Speaker 6: probably wouldn't have done all of the things that she did.

396
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Speaker 5: She wouldn't be going to the effort of writing postcards

397
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Speaker 5: or sending presents back to her sister.

398
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Speaker 6: Would you just go?

399
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Speaker 5: You just live? I have said that many times. If

400
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:37,761
Speaker 5: I was going to leave and disappear and go and

401
00:21:37,801 --> 00:21:40,360
Speaker 5: live in Luxembourg for the rest of my days. I'd

402
00:21:40,360 --> 00:21:42,521
Speaker 5: get on a plane and you wouldn't hear from me.

403
00:21:42,921 --> 00:21:44,801
Speaker 5: I'd be gone. But the fact that she kept in

404
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,561
Speaker 5: contact and dropped little cookie crumbs for us to be

405
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:51,321
Speaker 5: able to go back through and investigate, that's not the

406
00:21:51,360 --> 00:21:53,840
Speaker 5: signal of someone who wants to go missing. And so

407
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Speaker 5: when I was listening to the I think episode four,

408
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Speaker 5: which ended up episode five, maybe it was a bonus episode.

409
00:22:00,001 --> 00:22:04,001
Speaker 5: You were listening to the lady from Missing Persons in

410
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:06,680
Speaker 5: WA and she was reading information and she told you

411
00:22:06,681 --> 00:22:09,561
Speaker 5: something that you hadn't heard before. Tell us about that.

412
00:22:10,120 --> 00:22:13,920
Speaker 6: I had this conversation and she goes, obviously, she's just

413
00:22:14,001 --> 00:22:17,600
Speaker 6: reading part of her report. And she says, obviously the

414
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:22,441
Speaker 6: sock that was found. And I went sorry, and she went, yeah,

415
00:22:22,481 --> 00:22:25,400
Speaker 6: there was a sock found. And I double back, And

416
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Speaker 6: then I actually call mom afterwards and asked, Mom, do

417
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Speaker 6: you know about was there a sock found? No, honey, Joy, No.

418
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Speaker 4: Yeah.

419
00:22:33,761 --> 00:22:36,281
Speaker 6: And suddenly so we're sitting in a report somewhere that

420
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Speaker 6: was like, well, you know, the obvious question is was

421
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:42,440
Speaker 6: it his sock? Was a DNA testing done?

422
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 5: Where is this?

423
00:22:44,241 --> 00:22:45,281
Speaker 6: Where is the sock? Now?

424
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Speaker 5: Yeah? Do we know that?

425
00:22:46,921 --> 00:22:47,361
Speaker 6: No?

426
00:22:47,360 --> 00:22:49,920
Speaker 5: No, we don't. Okay, so these are important. This is

427
00:22:49,961 --> 00:22:51,801
Speaker 5: what we need to suck out of these things and

428
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:53,321
Speaker 5: put it out there, right, I reckon?

429
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Speaker 6: Can I just also say this? So the moment then

430
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Speaker 6: I asked a question about DNA. I say to the police.

431
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,201
Speaker 5: Officer, I know what you're going to say, Do you.

432
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Speaker 6: Have DNA on file? And hello?

433
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Speaker 5: No?

434
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Speaker 6: I'm like, so you don't have anything from his DNA

435
00:23:09,001 --> 00:23:12,241
Speaker 6: and you also don't have any family from family DNA,

436
00:23:12,321 --> 00:23:17,360
Speaker 6: which obviously can link people. I'm like, okay, can we Yeah?

437
00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:19,721
Speaker 5: Well I noted that too, because you started the podcast

438
00:23:19,761 --> 00:23:23,561
Speaker 5: in twenty nineteen and then in twenty twenty. Oh, we're

439
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:25,521
Speaker 5: going to take some DNA. And one of the questions

440
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,721
Speaker 5: I wanted to ask you was do you know what

441
00:23:28,801 --> 00:23:31,920
Speaker 5: type of DNA test they did from recollection?

442
00:23:32,481 --> 00:23:34,561
Speaker 6: It's called familiar.

443
00:23:34,201 --> 00:23:35,761
Speaker 5: Okay DNA familiar Yeah.

444
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:39,440
Speaker 6: Yep, DNA, which is essentially family DNA. I had to

445
00:23:39,481 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 6: tell mum, hey, mum, they've got to do some DNA

446
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 6: testing and she was like, what's that?

447
00:23:46,041 --> 00:23:48,640
Speaker 5: And the reason I ask you that question is because

448
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:53,801
Speaker 5: I had a similar situation where the new OOC another

449
00:23:53,921 --> 00:23:57,281
Speaker 5: OIC came into the mix for my mum's case in

450
00:23:57,321 --> 00:24:00,561
Speaker 5: two thousand and nine, so he's in charge of the

451
00:24:00,561 --> 00:24:03,921
Speaker 5: case or she, depending on who it is. He had

452
00:24:04,001 --> 00:24:07,601
Speaker 5: asked me, he'd noted that I had no DNA testing,

453
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,041
Speaker 5: and again I was like, oh gosh, yeah, okay, that

454
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,480
Speaker 5: should be a thing, but not being a police officer

455
00:24:12,481 --> 00:24:15,961
Speaker 5: and not thinking from a forensic point of view, that's

456
00:24:15,961 --> 00:24:18,521
Speaker 5: something that you should be doing. So everyone should just

457
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 5: keep that in mind. But they made me drive to

458
00:24:21,521 --> 00:24:23,321
Speaker 5: Byron Bay, so I had to drag all three of

459
00:24:23,321 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 5: my kids who were under ten, to go and do

460
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,680
Speaker 5: this DNA test and I went into the police station,

461
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:33,321
Speaker 5: they shoved a swab in my mouth. And so fast

462
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:37,360
Speaker 5: forward to when things start to heat up. We started

463
00:24:37,360 --> 00:24:40,521
Speaker 5: the podcast. There's podcasts coming out about missing persons. The

464
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:45,201
Speaker 5: Teacher's pet had been massive with Lynette Dawson's case, and

465
00:24:46,041 --> 00:24:48,801
Speaker 5: things were starting to take a turn. I personally could

466
00:24:48,801 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 5: see that there was a change in the weather pushing forward.

467
00:24:52,120 --> 00:24:56,080
Speaker 5: The New South Wales Police missing persons units set up

468
00:24:57,001 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 5: tents around, particularly northern New South Wales where there are

469
00:25:00,561 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 5: a lot of missing persons. You probably all know about

470
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,041
Speaker 5: that because it's been quite a lot of chat about

471
00:25:05,201 --> 00:25:10,720
Speaker 5: that recently. I found out because I started asking questions

472
00:25:10,761 --> 00:25:13,761
Speaker 5: to missing persons and I said, oh, I'm just confirming

473
00:25:13,801 --> 00:25:18,281
Speaker 5: that my DNA is actually on the national DNA program

474
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:22,120
Speaker 5: or list, and they said, oh, I'm just gonna have

475
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 5: to check for you and come back on that. They

476
00:25:24,321 --> 00:25:26,680
Speaker 5: did not come back to me. She came back a

477
00:25:26,761 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 5: little bit later with me chasing, going, actually, you are

478
00:25:30,120 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 5: on one but not on the other. And I'm like,

479
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 5: hang on a minute. So I had to go and

480
00:25:33,281 --> 00:25:36,001
Speaker 5: do my research. What do you mean like I gave

481
00:25:36,041 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 5: my DNA, isn't it as simple as giving a DNA TESTTA?

482
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,360
Speaker 5: And I might add too, I had just been to

483
00:25:42,761 --> 00:25:46,521
Speaker 5: the AFP launch for the DNA National DNA program, right,

484
00:25:46,561 --> 00:25:49,241
Speaker 5: and I did it on camera for the cameras I

485
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 5: put did a DNA test as well. I found out

486
00:25:52,681 --> 00:25:55,721
Speaker 5: that the voluntary sample that I did with Byron Bay

487
00:25:55,761 --> 00:25:58,400
Speaker 5: Police in twenty ten, they cannot upload it to the

488
00:25:58,481 --> 00:26:02,761
Speaker 5: national database. Why because I have to give my authorization

489
00:26:03,441 --> 00:26:06,281
Speaker 5: in writing for them to do it. So it's sitting

490
00:26:06,360 --> 00:26:09,400
Speaker 5: somewhere in the New South Wales whatever you want to

491
00:26:09,441 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 5: call it, a database of some sort, but it's not

492
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,680
Speaker 5: on the national program. And this really bothered me, and

493
00:26:14,721 --> 00:26:18,001
Speaker 5: it has similar feelings with Desert's case, being that he

494
00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 5: bumped his head, he had memory loss, he had really

495
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,480
Speaker 5: bad headaches, he was vomiting, he wasn't eating, he had

496
00:26:23,521 --> 00:26:26,961
Speaker 5: all of these symptoms of someone who potentially could wander off,

497
00:26:27,441 --> 00:26:31,321
Speaker 5: pass out, have amnesia, end up in a hospital, and

498
00:26:31,360 --> 00:26:33,720
Speaker 5: no one knows who he is because there's no DNA

499
00:26:33,801 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 5: on the register. Right, So this had a big problem

500
00:26:37,041 --> 00:26:39,200
Speaker 5: for me. So that's why I asked what kind of

501
00:26:39,281 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 5: DNA testing it was. It's a pretty big deal, Like

502
00:26:42,561 --> 00:26:44,360
Speaker 5: the DNA thing is a big deal, and it makes

503
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:49,120
Speaker 5: me wonder why a case that happened in nineteen seventy nine,

504
00:26:50,001 --> 00:26:53,481
Speaker 5: no one thought to ask for the family's DNA before

505
00:26:53,681 --> 00:26:56,961
Speaker 5: these people start to pass away from old age get

506
00:26:57,041 --> 00:27:00,001
Speaker 5: DNA taken like you know, so it is important, is

507
00:27:00,041 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 5: your DNA now. It's a funny thing you ask, because

508
00:27:03,241 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 5: I actually have asked for that in and no one

509
00:27:05,961 --> 00:27:07,801
Speaker 5: will give it to me. We should not have to

510
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,961
Speaker 5: go through all of theirs to have our DNA put

511
00:27:11,001 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 5: on a profile that can go anywhere to solve a

512
00:27:13,481 --> 00:27:14,640
Speaker 5: mystery of a missing person.

513
00:27:14,961 --> 00:27:19,880
Speaker 6: If my uncle Dez was found dead or alive, we

514
00:27:19,921 --> 00:27:22,600
Speaker 6: wouldn't know. Yeah, he'd be a John Doe and your

515
00:27:22,681 --> 00:27:23,721
Speaker 6: mum would be a Jane Doe.

516
00:27:23,761 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 5: Correct, And that is possible. She could be in a

517
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,801
Speaker 5: morg sitting somewhere in a box and no one's tested

518
00:27:29,801 --> 00:27:33,761
Speaker 5: her against my DNA. I did give New Softwales police

519
00:27:33,801 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 5: some ballet slippers of my mum's which she had worn.

520
00:27:37,120 --> 00:27:39,801
Speaker 5: They will leather ballet slippers, and they came back they

521
00:27:39,801 --> 00:27:42,121
Speaker 5: said to me, oh, we will have to destroy them,

522
00:27:42,521 --> 00:27:44,680
Speaker 5: which broke my heart because that was one of the

523
00:27:44,681 --> 00:27:46,640
Speaker 5: things I had of my mums because all her stuffs

524
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:50,321
Speaker 5: in storage right, it's all gone missing, and I stupidly

525
00:27:50,321 --> 00:27:52,401
Speaker 5: should have kept one. So if I had a tip

526
00:27:52,441 --> 00:27:57,161
Speaker 5: for anybody, don't give everything away, keep something because.

527
00:27:56,801 --> 00:27:57,801
Speaker 6: I don't need both feet.

528
00:27:58,241 --> 00:28:00,521
Speaker 5: I don't need both. But they didn't get anything. They said,

529
00:28:00,561 --> 00:28:01,761
Speaker 5: we've got no DNA from that.

530
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:02,801
Speaker 6: I must have destroyed them.

531
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:07,200
Speaker 5: How possible? Yeah, so of them both. Silly mistake. But

532
00:28:07,281 --> 00:28:09,321
Speaker 5: I'm learning and want to I want to help teach

533
00:28:09,360 --> 00:28:13,481
Speaker 5: people from my mistakes and my errors as we move

534
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:27,041
Speaker 5: through this journey. I want to come back to the

535
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:31,761
Speaker 5: sock for a minute. So let's talk about this gentleman

536
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:36,281
Speaker 5: has come back and he's given you information or given

537
00:28:36,321 --> 00:28:41,601
Speaker 5: police information that he saw Dez on the day that

538
00:28:41,681 --> 00:28:45,721
Speaker 5: he went missing, but he was further down the road

539
00:28:45,801 --> 00:28:51,081
Speaker 5: from where he went missing. He then drives back past

540
00:28:51,241 --> 00:28:54,761
Speaker 5: that location ten years later and had a moment where

541
00:28:54,761 --> 00:28:58,241
Speaker 5: he remembered that he'd seen this man. He potentially might

542
00:28:58,281 --> 00:29:01,081
Speaker 5: have seen something in the news about Deaz that he

543
00:29:01,161 --> 00:29:04,481
Speaker 5: was missing, like, we don't know that. But he stopped,

544
00:29:04,641 --> 00:29:06,841
Speaker 5: and he stopped, he had to walk around, and he

545
00:29:06,881 --> 00:29:10,481
Speaker 5: says he found a sock. Now that sock he described

546
00:29:10,521 --> 00:29:13,001
Speaker 5: as being black and white. The first thing that came

547
00:29:13,001 --> 00:29:16,561
Speaker 5: to my head was have we researched did Mainz Roads

548
00:29:16,641 --> 00:29:18,441
Speaker 5: because he was working for Mains Roads and they were

549
00:29:18,441 --> 00:29:21,881
Speaker 5: on a camp together right at Thangu station. Did they

550
00:29:21,921 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 5: have did they supply things like socks?

551
00:29:25,241 --> 00:29:29,281
Speaker 6: So really interestingly around main Roads is obviously I went

552
00:29:29,321 --> 00:29:32,761
Speaker 6: digging into his records at main Roads.

553
00:29:32,441 --> 00:29:35,241
Speaker 5: And very very slim, scant on details.

554
00:29:34,801 --> 00:29:38,241
Speaker 6: Scant on details. I mean, it's ninety seventy nine. I'm

555
00:29:38,281 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 6: pretty positive now there would be a lot of detail around,

556
00:29:41,081 --> 00:29:44,121
Speaker 6: you know, any incident that were to happen. Sure main

557
00:29:44,201 --> 00:29:47,881
Speaker 6: Roads already were these days. My family was pretty sure

558
00:29:48,401 --> 00:29:51,281
Speaker 6: that it was a type of sock demarcles would wear.

559
00:29:51,481 --> 00:29:57,121
Speaker 5: Have we got I remember listening to the Western Australian

560
00:29:57,161 --> 00:30:01,041
Speaker 5: missing person's officer who said that he had given her

561
00:30:01,281 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 5: or given them a map which was on his file

562
00:30:03,681 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 5: as well of a location. Is there any way that

563
00:30:06,801 --> 00:30:09,281
Speaker 5: you guys can dig into that a bit more and

564
00:30:09,441 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 5: ask for where is the sock? Has it been tested

565
00:30:12,521 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 5: for DNA? And where is the map?

566
00:30:15,161 --> 00:30:20,081
Speaker 6: We did ask that question around the sock the sock.

567
00:30:20,441 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 6: From what I understand, they didn't feel that he was

568
00:30:23,761 --> 00:30:28,561
Speaker 6: a reliable witness, given that he just happened to drive

569
00:30:28,601 --> 00:30:31,921
Speaker 6: past the same place ten years later and stop in

570
00:30:31,961 --> 00:30:33,601
Speaker 6: the area that he thought he saw my uncle.

571
00:30:33,881 --> 00:30:36,201
Speaker 5: But you know, like if you've got no leads on

572
00:30:36,241 --> 00:30:40,321
Speaker 5: this and he's a missing person, you do everything. You

573
00:30:40,361 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 5: don't make assumptions and go, oh, he might be an

574
00:30:42,801 --> 00:30:44,361
Speaker 5: unreliable witness. You don't know that.

575
00:30:45,241 --> 00:30:48,081
Speaker 6: But I find that in a lot of cases, and

576
00:30:48,121 --> 00:30:51,401
Speaker 6: that needs to change one hundred percent. Like everything is

577
00:30:51,441 --> 00:30:53,361
Speaker 6: suspicious until it's proven.

578
00:30:53,121 --> 00:30:57,081
Speaker 5: Otherwise, started suspicious and work backwards. If you find out

579
00:30:57,121 --> 00:30:59,001
Speaker 5: it's not the case, well good, that's you can tick.

580
00:30:58,961 --> 00:31:02,601
Speaker 6: That box off himself, right like any police detective you

581
00:31:02,641 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 6: speak to, whether he's sold will say anything we find

582
00:31:07,001 --> 00:31:11,321
Speaker 6: we deem as suspicious until proven otherwise.

583
00:31:12,081 --> 00:31:14,841
Speaker 5: I have a bone with that, because that doesn't always happen.

584
00:31:14,961 --> 00:31:17,001
Speaker 5: Like you know, sometimes I'll go searching for ten days

585
00:31:17,001 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 5: and goo, we're not treating this suspicious, I'm like, And

586
00:31:19,561 --> 00:31:22,041
Speaker 5: then three months later, oh, we're actually treating a suspicious now,

587
00:31:22,041 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 5: and they've already lost a lot of information, which is

588
00:31:25,441 --> 00:31:28,881
Speaker 5: a problem. And so today Deres has sadly been missing

589
00:31:28,921 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 5: for sixteen thousand, nine hundred and twenty three days.

590
00:31:33,361 --> 00:31:35,641
Speaker 6: That is, let me tell you what's happened in the

591
00:31:35,761 --> 00:31:41,401
Speaker 6: sixteen thousand days. My grandpa, my grandma died. DES's middle

592
00:31:41,441 --> 00:31:47,241
Speaker 6: sister died, his youngest sister died. All of those sisters

593
00:31:47,241 --> 00:31:52,601
Speaker 6: have had children, their cousins have had children. And then

594
00:31:52,601 --> 00:31:59,881
Speaker 6: in twenty eighteen, his nephew releases a podcast, and we're

595
00:31:59,881 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 6: in twenty twenty five. It's still no answer.

596
00:32:02,361 --> 00:32:06,081
Speaker 5: How did you feel when your son decided he was

597
00:32:06,121 --> 00:32:09,521
Speaker 5: going to go to a similar kind of location as

598
00:32:09,561 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 5: a young person, How did that affect you as a

599
00:32:13,041 --> 00:32:16,561
Speaker 5: dad knowing and living with the fact that your uncle

600
00:32:16,921 --> 00:32:19,961
Speaker 5: went there and he disappeared, Like, I.

601
00:32:19,761 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 6: Actually haven't thought of that until you've just asked me.

602
00:32:23,081 --> 00:32:25,641
Speaker 6: And it's actually bigger than just my son. It's about

603
00:32:25,641 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 6: my daughters too.

604
00:32:26,921 --> 00:32:27,521
Speaker 5: He did, he go?

605
00:32:27,641 --> 00:32:29,841
Speaker 6: He did? Ye. Yeah, he only spent a little bit

606
00:32:29,881 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 6: of time up there because he hated it. But it

607
00:32:34,001 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 6: was a very different time. But it does change the

608
00:32:38,241 --> 00:32:42,881
Speaker 6: way you act. I reckon because now you've said it,

609
00:32:43,441 --> 00:32:47,201
Speaker 6: I go, I'm really protective of my daughters. I'm really

610
00:32:47,281 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 6: protective with my son. But he's a he's a twenty

611
00:32:49,481 --> 00:32:51,161
Speaker 6: five year old bloke now.

612
00:32:51,041 --> 00:32:54,081
Speaker 5: So yeah, he's being Oh, your son, though he'll always

613
00:32:54,121 --> 00:32:56,441
Speaker 5: be your son and you'll always still be protective.

614
00:32:56,881 --> 00:33:01,601
Speaker 6: But yeah, I'm a My wife is probably less worried

615
00:33:01,601 --> 00:33:05,001
Speaker 6: about my daughters, you know, doing something, whereas I'm like,

616
00:33:05,041 --> 00:33:07,641
Speaker 6: but no, no, I'll be around. And I've actually not

617
00:33:07,721 --> 00:33:09,961
Speaker 6: thought about it until you just said that.

618
00:33:10,241 --> 00:33:13,321
Speaker 5: It's an interesting thought, Jay, because I live that as well.

619
00:33:13,521 --> 00:33:16,801
Speaker 5: I look at Chris, and I so Chris. Those few

620
00:33:16,881 --> 00:33:19,681
Speaker 5: don't know with my husband, we've been together for thirty years.

621
00:33:20,121 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 5: And for example, my middle daughter, she's twenty, she's gorgeous,

622
00:33:25,161 --> 00:33:28,641
Speaker 5: she's blonde and beautiful and all the rest of it.

623
00:33:28,761 --> 00:33:33,121
Speaker 5: She goes out for a night, her phone starting to

624
00:33:33,161 --> 00:33:38,161
Speaker 5: lose battery. I can see her on Life three sixty,

625
00:33:38,321 --> 00:33:40,641
Speaker 5: because that's the rules. If you go out and you're

626
00:33:40,681 --> 00:33:44,321
Speaker 5: by yourself with your friends, if you get separated from

627
00:33:44,321 --> 00:33:46,041
Speaker 5: them or something, I will come and pick you up.

628
00:33:46,081 --> 00:33:48,361
Speaker 5: I never ever think that I will never come and

629
00:33:48,361 --> 00:33:51,241
Speaker 5: get you. I will always pick you up. And I'm

630
00:33:51,321 --> 00:33:53,041
Speaker 5: very chill. I go to bed, I go to sleep,

631
00:33:53,081 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 5: and I know that I know who she is, and

632
00:33:54,521 --> 00:33:57,121
Speaker 5: I know who she's with and good communication, which is

633
00:33:57,401 --> 00:33:59,921
Speaker 5: very important. And I think my children completely get that

634
00:34:00,001 --> 00:34:04,241
Speaker 5: I need good communication. I wake up at say eleven,

635
00:34:04,281 --> 00:34:07,161
Speaker 5: and go home yet and then I start to worry,

636
00:34:07,761 --> 00:34:11,201
Speaker 5: and then I don't sleep until I know she's in

637
00:34:11,321 --> 00:34:14,681
Speaker 5: a uber with a friend, or I won't pick her up.

638
00:34:15,081 --> 00:34:19,321
Speaker 5: And my husband is just soundly lying there, snoring's a

639
00:34:19,321 --> 00:34:22,081
Speaker 5: little hard out. And it's not that he doesn't care,

640
00:34:22,561 --> 00:34:25,241
Speaker 5: but he doesn't worry like I do. And I have

641
00:34:25,321 --> 00:34:27,921
Speaker 5: to pull myself back to times when I was that

642
00:34:28,041 --> 00:34:30,521
Speaker 5: age and I didn't have mobile phones, and my mum

643
00:34:30,561 --> 00:34:32,721
Speaker 5: didn't know where I was or where I was going.

644
00:34:32,801 --> 00:34:36,321
Speaker 5: We didn't sort of have constant contact. And I'm certainly

645
00:34:36,361 --> 00:34:39,001
Speaker 5: not a helicopter parent or anything like that. I let

646
00:34:39,041 --> 00:34:40,761
Speaker 5: them do what they want to do. And they have

647
00:34:40,801 --> 00:34:43,161
Speaker 5: to have their own independence and learn from mistakes and things.

648
00:34:43,241 --> 00:34:46,521
Speaker 5: But it's just that whole coming home at nighttime when

649
00:34:46,561 --> 00:34:49,161
Speaker 5: you're a young person and you might have had a

650
00:34:49,161 --> 00:34:51,601
Speaker 5: few drinks and you know, you just need to be

651
00:34:51,961 --> 00:34:54,281
Speaker 5: really with it. So I get it.

652
00:34:56,201 --> 00:34:58,441
Speaker 6: The question, I guess, and I think I know the

653
00:34:58,441 --> 00:35:03,681
Speaker 6: answer to it is that the trauma of going something

654
00:35:03,761 --> 00:35:06,681
Speaker 6: that has happened to you, with your mom going missing

655
00:35:06,721 --> 00:35:09,401
Speaker 6: and with me my uncle going missing, and just not

656
00:35:09,761 --> 00:35:12,041
Speaker 6: necessarily that I was super close with my uncle, but

657
00:35:12,121 --> 00:35:13,961
Speaker 6: it is how it affected my family.

658
00:35:14,161 --> 00:35:15,841
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, you saw it affect your mom, right.

659
00:35:15,801 --> 00:35:17,441
Speaker 6: I saw it affect my mom. I saw it affect

660
00:35:17,481 --> 00:35:18,801
Speaker 6: my auntie's and.

661
00:35:18,761 --> 00:35:21,481
Speaker 5: My grandparents granddads in particular.

662
00:35:21,241 --> 00:35:24,481
Speaker 6: Correct, I mean my mum and my family said for

663
00:35:24,521 --> 00:35:27,881
Speaker 6: a long time that my granddad died early because of

664
00:35:27,881 --> 00:35:28,481
Speaker 6: a heartache.

665
00:35:29,321 --> 00:35:32,601
Speaker 5: And I totally get that. I totally see how just

666
00:35:32,641 --> 00:35:36,601
Speaker 5: the ambiguity of not knowing yeah, can eat you alive

667
00:35:36,841 --> 00:35:40,921
Speaker 5: for breakfast. Just anxiety, anxiety, that's all it is. It's

668
00:35:40,961 --> 00:35:42,961
Speaker 5: just stress. My heart is very healthy, but I have

669
00:35:43,041 --> 00:35:46,201
Speaker 5: really high anxiety and high stress and probably PTSD. To

670
00:35:46,201 --> 00:35:47,641
Speaker 5: be honest, what.

671
00:35:47,761 --> 00:35:51,241
Speaker 6: I was doing, dares I was like, this is actually

672
00:35:51,281 --> 00:35:55,601
Speaker 6: a family heirloop. Yeah, this has actually got like I

673
00:35:55,721 --> 00:35:59,361
Speaker 6: listen when I call my dad. Now he's in my

674
00:35:59,601 --> 00:36:03,281
Speaker 6: phone as Mom's phone. So mom and dad have this

675
00:36:03,521 --> 00:36:06,241
Speaker 6: one mobile phone to do anything else but answer it.

676
00:36:06,281 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 6: Pall yeah, And I call that phone a Dad doesn't answer,

677
00:36:10,561 --> 00:36:12,441
Speaker 6: it goes to a voicemail, and Mom's voice is on

678
00:36:12,481 --> 00:36:17,641
Speaker 6: that voicemail. Oh bless, which is beautiful. But I've also

679
00:36:17,681 --> 00:36:21,121
Speaker 6: got two hours of her talking to me, which I

680
00:36:21,241 --> 00:36:26,881
Speaker 6: never had. That is really precious. Not for the podcast, yeah,

681
00:36:26,921 --> 00:36:27,801
Speaker 6: but just for me.

682
00:36:28,601 --> 00:36:30,921
Speaker 5: I have thought the same too, And I remember asking

683
00:36:31,001 --> 00:36:34,321
Speaker 5: Allison actually from Channel seven, how I could get the

684
00:36:34,361 --> 00:36:37,721
Speaker 5: podcast about my mum the Lady Vanishes downloaded into some

685
00:36:37,761 --> 00:36:41,121
Speaker 5: sort of format so I could keep it forever so

686
00:36:41,201 --> 00:36:44,241
Speaker 5: if the server drops or it drops off, like because

687
00:36:44,321 --> 00:36:48,241
Speaker 5: for me, that is the story of my family history.

688
00:36:48,321 --> 00:36:51,401
Speaker 5: This my children's grandmother who they never met. And then

689
00:36:51,401 --> 00:36:54,601
Speaker 5: they're going to have children forward think about life and

690
00:36:54,681 --> 00:36:57,681
Speaker 5: AI and all sorts of crazy stuff. My grandchildren and

691
00:36:57,841 --> 00:37:00,321
Speaker 5: great grandchildren are going to be asking questions about this,

692
00:37:00,401 --> 00:37:03,401
Speaker 5: and you've seen that even through your kids. I don't

693
00:37:03,441 --> 00:37:07,881
Speaker 5: know that it doesn't stop when the next ukin dies right,

694
00:37:08,241 --> 00:37:11,481
Speaker 5: it keeps going and one missing person affects I know

695
00:37:11,521 --> 00:37:13,361
Speaker 5: there's researched on this. I should look at it, but

696
00:37:14,161 --> 00:37:16,041
Speaker 5: to get the numbers. But there is like a certain

697
00:37:16,041 --> 00:37:20,801
Speaker 5: amount of people I think maybe sixteen direct people missing person.

698
00:37:21,321 --> 00:37:24,161
Speaker 5: So you think about that and fifty thousand people going

699
00:37:24,201 --> 00:37:26,241
Speaker 5: missing every year. Yes, sure most of those people are

700
00:37:26,321 --> 00:37:29,521
Speaker 5: found within a week, but at the current state, like

701
00:37:29,961 --> 00:37:33,241
Speaker 5: even since I've been doing Mum's podcast, the lady vanishes

702
00:37:33,281 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 5: and then the missing matter. The numbers are growing every year.

703
00:37:37,721 --> 00:37:40,121
Speaker 5: I think we're up to, you know, twenty nine hundred.

704
00:37:40,161 --> 00:37:42,201
Speaker 5: I was trying to find the right number last night

705
00:37:42,201 --> 00:37:43,881
Speaker 5: and it was a bit difficult, but I've been told

706
00:37:43,881 --> 00:37:46,401
Speaker 5: different numbers from different people. But it's a high number.

707
00:37:46,441 --> 00:37:49,441
Speaker 5: We're nearly up to three thousand long term missing people

708
00:37:49,601 --> 00:37:52,881
Speaker 5: in Australia and that's that's crazy.

709
00:37:53,241 --> 00:37:56,041
Speaker 6: And then when you extrapolate that out over if the

710
00:37:56,121 --> 00:38:00,761
Speaker 6: numbers sixteen signs that into generationally, you know, this is

711
00:38:01,521 --> 00:38:06,041
Speaker 6: daughters pacity onto their daughters and sons on to Now

712
00:38:06,601 --> 00:38:10,881
Speaker 6: how it affects my daughters now as sixteen going on

713
00:38:10,961 --> 00:38:14,961
Speaker 6: seventeen year old daughters might not show up for another

714
00:38:15,001 --> 00:38:16,881
Speaker 6: ten or fifty years, but give it time.

715
00:38:17,201 --> 00:38:19,401
Speaker 5: But give a time when they're having babies or when

716
00:38:19,401 --> 00:38:20,921
Speaker 5: they're getting married and go, oh.

717
00:38:20,801 --> 00:38:23,641
Speaker 6: Someone wants to go away, or a sub wants to

718
00:38:23,681 --> 00:38:25,481
Speaker 6: go work up north on the roads.

719
00:38:25,921 --> 00:38:28,721
Speaker 5: And it's different. I think it's different when you when

720
00:38:28,721 --> 00:38:33,601
Speaker 5: someone dies, like my brother died right so in tragic circumstances.

721
00:38:33,641 --> 00:38:36,561
Speaker 5: He took his own life. We cremated him and we

722
00:38:36,641 --> 00:38:39,841
Speaker 5: scattered his ashes, and I know where he is and

723
00:38:39,921 --> 00:38:42,441
Speaker 5: I can think about him, and you know, there's little

724
00:38:42,441 --> 00:38:45,161
Speaker 5: things that come up, like owls. Every time I see

725
00:38:45,161 --> 00:38:47,681
Speaker 5: an owl, I think of him, because we talked about

726
00:38:47,681 --> 00:38:49,281
Speaker 5: that as a as a funny thing is when we

727
00:38:49,281 --> 00:38:51,201
Speaker 5: were kids, he was always going to come back as

728
00:38:51,241 --> 00:38:52,921
Speaker 5: an owl. And then you know, during the inquest, I've

729
00:38:52,921 --> 00:38:55,161
Speaker 5: got an owl in the back points here. I was

730
00:38:55,161 --> 00:38:58,721
Speaker 5: sitting in the tree, like what is going on? And

731
00:38:58,721 --> 00:39:01,041
Speaker 5: then he's sitting out the front on the power lines

732
00:39:01,241 --> 00:39:03,121
Speaker 5: looking at Chris and I when we're sitting on the deck,

733
00:39:03,161 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 5: I'm like I sat out there again. And then when

734
00:39:05,481 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 5: Johnnie and I were traveling all through Europe, every time

735
00:39:07,481 --> 00:39:10,121
Speaker 5: we go somewhere there was an hour, whether it be

736
00:39:10,161 --> 00:39:12,761
Speaker 5: a soft fluffy toy or a real hour, in the

737
00:39:12,801 --> 00:39:16,161
Speaker 5: tree hooting out out of our window. It just stays with.

738
00:39:16,081 --> 00:39:19,081
Speaker 6: You, and I think it does stay with you, and

739
00:39:19,121 --> 00:39:20,841
Speaker 6: you don't know how it's going to stay with you

740
00:39:20,961 --> 00:39:23,681
Speaker 6: until it appears. Yeah, and then suddenly it appears and

741
00:39:23,721 --> 00:39:26,361
Speaker 6: you're like, oh shit, like you've just revealed to me today.

742
00:39:27,481 --> 00:39:30,281
Speaker 6: I didn't actually connect my uncle going missing with how

743
00:39:30,321 --> 00:39:32,641
Speaker 6: I am with my daughters.

744
00:39:33,121 --> 00:39:35,881
Speaker 5: So one other thing I wanted to touch on was

745
00:39:36,201 --> 00:39:40,961
Speaker 5: the story of a missing person who was actually found.

746
00:39:41,481 --> 00:39:46,401
Speaker 5: It's Corey O'Connell. Now. His sister Hailey was leading the

747
00:39:46,441 --> 00:39:51,241
Speaker 5: family search with her parents for Corey and he actually

748
00:39:51,281 --> 00:39:55,521
Speaker 5: went missing near nan Up in Western Australia. He went

749
00:39:55,601 --> 00:39:59,121
Speaker 5: missing in June twenty twenty one, but they found him

750
00:39:59,121 --> 00:40:03,161
Speaker 5: in May twenty twenty three. And how they found him

751
00:40:03,361 --> 00:40:09,241
Speaker 5: would she be alive sadly deceased? So how they found him?

752
00:40:10,641 --> 00:40:14,081
Speaker 5: There was a drone a gentleman called Dan Wood. I

753
00:40:14,081 --> 00:40:16,321
Speaker 5: don't know if Dan lives in Western Australia, but just

754
00:40:16,321 --> 00:40:21,041
Speaker 5: got me thinking, right. He was doing drone shots of

755
00:40:21,201 --> 00:40:25,041
Speaker 5: mapping out areas and he sent them to Haley and

756
00:40:25,121 --> 00:40:27,881
Speaker 5: the family to do assessment on it. Now, I remember

757
00:40:27,921 --> 00:40:30,281
Speaker 5: seeing an interview with Haley and She was talking about

758
00:40:30,281 --> 00:40:32,361
Speaker 5: how they'd gone through a lot of drone photos and

759
00:40:32,401 --> 00:40:35,321
Speaker 5: because of where that is, and we're talking, you know,

760
00:40:35,401 --> 00:40:39,161
Speaker 5: semi desert, kind of vibes very desolate, not a lot

761
00:40:39,161 --> 00:40:42,561
Speaker 5: of greenery, red dirt, so forth, etc. They were finding

762
00:40:42,561 --> 00:40:45,521
Speaker 5: a lot of bones that looked like potentially human bones,

763
00:40:45,521 --> 00:40:48,081
Speaker 5: but they turned out to be a kangaroo. But there

764
00:40:48,081 --> 00:40:51,561
Speaker 5: was this one that just spiked their interest and Dan

765
00:40:51,681 --> 00:40:54,441
Speaker 5: sent it to the family and they sent the police

766
00:40:54,441 --> 00:40:55,601
Speaker 5: out and they found him.

767
00:40:56,281 --> 00:40:58,281
Speaker 6: My goodness, you.

768
00:40:58,241 --> 00:41:02,121
Speaker 5: Know, I sadly want to tell you that I don't

769
00:41:02,161 --> 00:41:04,121
Speaker 5: know if you might not be aware of this, but

770
00:41:04,601 --> 00:41:08,401
Speaker 5: when I checked the National Missing Person's Register last night,

771
00:41:08,481 --> 00:41:10,041
Speaker 5: des is actually not on there.

772
00:41:11,961 --> 00:41:20,201
Speaker 6: I didn't know that. I is that because he was

773
00:41:20,841 --> 00:41:23,601
Speaker 6: because an inquestor's found him that he's deceased.

774
00:41:24,601 --> 00:41:26,641
Speaker 5: Well, the inquest found my mum is deceased, but my

775
00:41:26,761 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 5: mum is still on there. Right.

776
00:41:29,921 --> 00:41:32,161
Speaker 6: I had no idea, and I don't know the process

777
00:41:32,161 --> 00:41:33,601
Speaker 6: of getting someone on that.

778
00:41:33,641 --> 00:41:36,881
Speaker 5: Register, but I can help you with that.

779
00:41:36,881 --> 00:41:38,921
Speaker 6: That is a government register, right AFP.

780
00:41:39,761 --> 00:41:41,441
Speaker 5: So we need to write to the AFP, and we

781
00:41:41,481 --> 00:41:45,721
Speaker 5: need to say my person is missing still yep, we

782
00:41:45,761 --> 00:41:47,881
Speaker 5: would like to have him put on the National Missing

783
00:41:47,881 --> 00:41:51,521
Speaker 5: Person's Register because if he's not on that register, Jay

784
00:41:52,521 --> 00:41:58,401
Speaker 5: and they find bones in Queensland, if someone's finding that

785
00:41:58,481 --> 00:42:00,961
Speaker 5: in Queensland. And this is something I struggled with with

786
00:42:01,001 --> 00:42:03,281
Speaker 5: my mum's case, was that if she's on the New

787
00:42:03,321 --> 00:42:07,241
Speaker 5: South Wales Missing Person's Register but she's found with amnesia

788
00:42:07,321 --> 00:42:11,121
Speaker 5: in WA in a hospital, they are not connecting the dots.

789
00:42:11,721 --> 00:42:15,321
Speaker 5: So it's they're not connecting WA with New South Wales.

790
00:42:15,361 --> 00:42:17,841
Speaker 5: It has to be on a national register and that

791
00:42:17,881 --> 00:42:21,121
Speaker 5: goes for the DNA and for the National Missing Person's Register.

792
00:42:21,681 --> 00:42:25,321
Speaker 5: They need to all be connected otherwise they don't.

793
00:42:25,321 --> 00:42:29,001
Speaker 6: Communicate Desmond Francis car Big Punt. You searched his full name,

794
00:42:29,441 --> 00:42:30,161
Speaker 6: I just.

795
00:42:30,161 --> 00:42:33,601
Speaker 5: I did des and I did Desmond. So do you

796
00:42:33,601 --> 00:42:34,841
Speaker 5: want to have a look on your phone now while

797
00:42:34,841 --> 00:42:37,641
Speaker 5: we're sitting here, put his full name in and see

798
00:42:40,201 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 5: see what comes up. Because for my mum, she comes

799
00:42:43,561 --> 00:42:48,361
Speaker 5: up as Marion Barter aka Flora Bella Natalia Marian Ramkel,

800
00:42:48,681 --> 00:42:52,641
Speaker 5: which is difficult in itself, but it took me years

801
00:42:52,641 --> 00:42:54,361
Speaker 5: to have her put on there, and it was only

802
00:42:54,361 --> 00:42:57,041
Speaker 5: after doing the podcast that they actually put her on

803
00:42:57,041 --> 00:42:59,241
Speaker 5: the National Missing Person's Register for the very first time.

804
00:42:59,801 --> 00:43:04,001
Speaker 6: I've just put it in Desmond car des Car or

805
00:43:04,041 --> 00:43:08,401
Speaker 6: Desmond Francis Car. No search found.

806
00:43:08,761 --> 00:43:14,081
Speaker 5: All right, So I'm sorry. I tend to do this

807
00:43:14,161 --> 00:43:16,801
Speaker 5: and then I get into trouble for causing people trauma.

808
00:43:17,521 --> 00:43:18,601
Speaker 6: And this is the point.

809
00:43:19,001 --> 00:43:21,161
Speaker 5: But I just wanted to do some due diligence and

810
00:43:21,201 --> 00:43:24,721
Speaker 5: go he's on the register, right, he's got a reward, right,

811
00:43:24,761 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 5: And I went, oh my god, I can't find any

812
00:43:26,481 --> 00:43:27,121
Speaker 5: of those things.

813
00:43:27,761 --> 00:43:30,041
Speaker 6: This is the point with missing persons, and this is

814
00:43:30,121 --> 00:43:37,281
Speaker 6: why I think there's a community of missing persons, of

815
00:43:37,401 --> 00:43:42,161
Speaker 6: people who suffer from long term missing persons that antiguous loss.

816
00:43:42,241 --> 00:43:45,041
Speaker 6: There is a community. I've spoken to a bunch of them,

817
00:43:45,121 --> 00:43:48,201
Speaker 6: you know, most of the people I've spoken to. There's

818
00:43:48,241 --> 00:43:51,561
Speaker 6: not like a playbook. There's not like a what to

819
00:43:51,641 --> 00:43:53,321
Speaker 6: do if your person goes missing?

820
00:43:53,761 --> 00:43:57,201
Speaker 5: That's right, there's no there's no instructions. You're doing it

821
00:43:57,241 --> 00:44:00,121
Speaker 5: on your own. You're fumbling your way through. And I'm

822
00:44:00,121 --> 00:44:02,881
Speaker 5: sure you would agree with me. It's fumbling because you

823
00:44:02,921 --> 00:44:05,521
Speaker 5: don't know what you're doing. And you go, oh, I

824
00:44:05,521 --> 00:44:07,761
Speaker 5: shouldn't have given them the two ballet slippers. I should

825
00:44:07,761 --> 00:44:09,961
Speaker 5: have given them one, or I should have pushed for

826
00:44:10,041 --> 00:44:13,801
Speaker 5: my DNA to be that DNA, not this DNA. You know,

827
00:44:13,921 --> 00:44:15,681
Speaker 5: how do you know that you are literally at the

828
00:44:15,681 --> 00:44:17,561
Speaker 5: hands and the mercy of the police.

829
00:44:18,321 --> 00:44:20,921
Speaker 6: Really, I sent an email. I won't say who too,

830
00:44:21,321 --> 00:44:24,121
Speaker 6: because I think it's disrespectful, but I sent it to

831
00:44:24,201 --> 00:44:29,241
Speaker 6: someone quite high up in the court system in Western Australia.

832
00:44:29,361 --> 00:44:34,201
Speaker 6: I had their email address, but I didn't address them right, okay,

833
00:44:34,721 --> 00:44:38,361
Speaker 6: And I got their assistant came back to me and said,

834
00:44:38,561 --> 00:44:42,401
Speaker 6: you can't address that person like that, right, You must

835
00:44:42,441 --> 00:44:45,241
Speaker 6: address them like this, right. So I addressed them like

836
00:44:45,361 --> 00:44:47,521
Speaker 6: that on the way back and just said, sorry, my

837
00:44:47,601 --> 00:44:51,721
Speaker 6: uncle's been missing for forty years, my mum's just passed away. Yeah,

838
00:44:51,921 --> 00:44:56,241
Speaker 6: excuse my excuse my lack of understanding on how to

839
00:44:56,281 --> 00:44:59,321
Speaker 6: address this person, but could I have an answer to

840
00:44:59,361 --> 00:45:02,441
Speaker 6: my question please? That should just shows a lack of

841
00:45:02,481 --> 00:45:08,041
Speaker 6: empathy when it comes to dealing with people, yeah, who

842
00:45:08,081 --> 00:45:12,001
Speaker 6: are suffering long term, ambiguous loss at whatever level.

843
00:45:12,081 --> 00:45:14,321
Speaker 5: And just think about that for one second. You're sending

844
00:45:14,641 --> 00:45:18,480
Speaker 5: an email about a missing person and they come back with, hey,

845
00:45:19,241 --> 00:45:21,641
Speaker 5: you didn't say the words correctly.

846
00:45:21,921 --> 00:45:22,241
Speaker 6: Correct.

847
00:45:22,601 --> 00:45:24,761
Speaker 5: I had same with me going into the New South

848
00:45:24,761 --> 00:45:28,721
Speaker 5: Wales Police station, They argued at the inquest that I

849
00:45:28,761 --> 00:45:32,081
Speaker 5: didn't say my mum was missing, so it was my

850
00:45:32,321 --> 00:45:35,721
Speaker 5: fault that they didn't do more at the time I

851
00:45:35,761 --> 00:45:38,201
Speaker 5: walked into the police station. That's essentially what they said.

852
00:45:38,441 --> 00:45:41,641
Speaker 5: You're losing the point here. My mum is missing still today,

853
00:45:41,921 --> 00:45:44,281
Speaker 5: twenty eight years down the track. So we you and

854
00:45:44,361 --> 00:45:48,481
Speaker 5: I are in a very unique space in life. We're

855
00:45:48,521 --> 00:45:51,081
Speaker 5: about the same age, and we are both dealing with

856
00:45:51,361 --> 00:45:55,401
Speaker 5: very long term missing, like decades long missing people. I'm

857
00:45:55,441 --> 00:45:57,721
Speaker 5: glad we've come together to do this because I think

858
00:45:57,841 --> 00:46:00,801
Speaker 5: even though we're chatting a lot about other things in

859
00:46:00,841 --> 00:46:03,921
Speaker 5: the missing person's space, the key element here is that

860
00:46:04,001 --> 00:46:06,881
Speaker 5: des is missing as matters. So I want you to

861
00:46:06,881 --> 00:46:12,321
Speaker 5: finish for me. Listen to me, goo, I want you

862
00:46:12,361 --> 00:46:14,281
Speaker 5: to tell me why does dares matter?

863
00:46:16,081 --> 00:46:23,481
Speaker 6: There's matters? There's matters now? Oh jeez, I think I'd

864
00:46:23,481 --> 00:46:31,601
Speaker 6: get emotional. Does matters now more than ever? Because my

865
00:46:31,721 --> 00:46:45,801
Speaker 6: mom matters? And and she passed sadly last year, but

866
00:46:45,881 --> 00:46:56,481
Speaker 6: she passed not knowing what happened to her brother, and

867
00:46:56,521 --> 00:47:05,281
Speaker 6: that would just yeah, I can't imagine how that would you.

868
00:47:06,281 --> 00:47:12,801
Speaker 6: I just can't imagine it. Yeah, And so that's why

869
00:47:12,921 --> 00:47:19,801
Speaker 6: for me does matters. He matters because of the heartache

870
00:47:20,081 --> 00:47:23,761
Speaker 6: that my mum suffered for the rest of her life

871
00:47:24,441 --> 00:47:26,001
Speaker 6: not knowing where a big brother went.

872
00:47:29,601 --> 00:47:33,321
Speaker 5: Yeah, thank you for sharing that with us, because I

873
00:47:33,361 --> 00:47:37,441
Speaker 5: think you know it is hard and your mum, you know,

874
00:47:37,561 --> 00:47:42,361
Speaker 5: recently passed away. Really you know, she's not long left you,

875
00:47:42,641 --> 00:47:48,001
Speaker 5: and you have seen through her eyes the heartache and

876
00:47:48,041 --> 00:47:52,201
Speaker 5: the stress and the ambiguity that she's lived with. And

877
00:47:52,921 --> 00:47:55,361
Speaker 5: you've lived with as well, because you've witnessed it as

878
00:47:55,401 --> 00:47:59,561
Speaker 5: a person in that family who care and want to

879
00:47:59,601 --> 00:48:02,481
Speaker 5: help in any way you possibly can. So thank you

880
00:48:02,521 --> 00:48:05,921
Speaker 5: for sharing the story of Days with us. And he

881
00:48:06,001 --> 00:48:06,921
Speaker 5: does matter to us.

882
00:48:08,201 --> 00:48:10,561
Speaker 6: I think one of the interesting things that we could

883
00:48:10,561 --> 00:48:14,520
Speaker 6: do in this podcast would be almost use it as

884
00:48:14,561 --> 00:48:20,201
Speaker 6: a tool for everyone if they know information. Obviously, Daz

885
00:48:20,321 --> 00:48:24,161
Speaker 6: is our first story, but there are stories every week,

886
00:48:25,521 --> 00:48:28,361
Speaker 6: so maybe there's a way that Deaes matters. So if

887
00:48:28,401 --> 00:48:30,801
Speaker 6: you've got information about Days, you're going to hear this story.

888
00:48:31,161 --> 00:48:33,081
Speaker 6: You might not have listened to the disappearance of Das

889
00:48:33,121 --> 00:48:34,681
Speaker 6: and you don't need to if you don't want to,

890
00:48:34,721 --> 00:48:36,801
Speaker 6: but just by hearing the story, you might go, oh,

891
00:48:36,801 --> 00:48:39,721
Speaker 6: I lived in that area that actually happened to me.

892
00:48:40,201 --> 00:48:43,521
Speaker 6: That actually happened. As part of the podcast, a woman

893
00:48:43,641 --> 00:48:46,841
Speaker 6: reached out just out of the blue and said, Hey,

894
00:48:47,121 --> 00:48:51,401
Speaker 6: she reached out on Instagram. Hey, my dad's been telling

895
00:48:51,441 --> 00:48:56,161
Speaker 6: me for the last thirty years about this bloke that

896
00:48:56,201 --> 00:48:59,561
Speaker 6: went missing up here, and we always just thought dad

897
00:48:59,681 --> 00:49:05,000
Speaker 6: was telling a story. But he reckons he saw dead

898
00:49:05,961 --> 00:49:10,641
Speaker 6: a week after he went missing at the rodeo, right,

899
00:49:11,801 --> 00:49:16,321
Speaker 6: And I was like, nah, obviously this is just an

900
00:49:16,321 --> 00:49:20,641
Speaker 6: old bloke's memory. Yeah, so I called guy no word

901
00:49:20,681 --> 00:49:23,881
Speaker 6: of a lie. It's in the podcast he talks about

902
00:49:24,001 --> 00:49:27,001
Speaker 6: that he saw him, He spoke to him. It was

903
00:49:27,041 --> 00:49:29,921
Speaker 6: with his daughter at the time, but Dez was drunk,

904
00:49:30,041 --> 00:49:31,801
Speaker 6: so he didn't want to go over to him because

905
00:49:31,841 --> 00:49:36,961
Speaker 6: he looked pretty happy. But he was with to what

906
00:49:37,081 --> 00:49:42,561
Speaker 6: he called to foreign looking backpackers, right, And he said,

907
00:49:42,641 --> 00:49:47,201
Speaker 6: my uncle Dez left with those two backpackers. Now, we

908
00:49:47,361 --> 00:49:51,041
Speaker 6: chased that story to the end of where we could

909
00:49:51,121 --> 00:49:56,161
Speaker 6: get it. No record of it in police it was

910
00:49:56,961 --> 00:49:59,921
Speaker 6: it formed part of the current's decision. We obviously gave

911
00:49:59,961 --> 00:50:03,641
Speaker 6: her that information at the time. It's a story of

912
00:50:03,681 --> 00:50:07,561
Speaker 6: someone who went on record to say that's what he saw. Yeah,

913
00:50:07,681 --> 00:50:09,761
Speaker 6: we reached out to the rodeo people up there and

914
00:50:09,921 --> 00:50:14,241
Speaker 6: say do you have ticketing information? Was there a rodeo

915
00:50:14,321 --> 00:50:16,441
Speaker 6: at that week? We found that there definitely was a

916
00:50:16,521 --> 00:50:17,961
Speaker 6: rodeo the week after.

917
00:50:19,121 --> 00:50:20,960
Speaker 5: And there are all little pieces of the puzzle piece.

918
00:50:21,041 --> 00:50:23,441
Speaker 5: That's the stuff that you put together and that becomes

919
00:50:23,481 --> 00:50:24,161
Speaker 5: our lives. Right.

920
00:50:24,241 --> 00:50:26,921
Speaker 6: Is there a way for people to make contact with

921
00:50:27,081 --> 00:50:30,201
Speaker 6: us they're listening to this podcast, not about Dez, maybe

922
00:50:30,241 --> 00:50:33,601
Speaker 6: about Dez, maybe about your mum.

923
00:50:33,761 --> 00:50:36,361
Speaker 5: For those that don't know, we do have a website

924
00:50:36,441 --> 00:50:39,201
Speaker 5: set up called the Missing Matter the Missingmatter dot com

925
00:50:39,201 --> 00:50:43,001
Speaker 5: so www dot the Missingmatter dot com, or we have

926
00:50:43,041 --> 00:50:46,281
Speaker 5: a contact page, so you can't actually contact us. So

927
00:50:46,481 --> 00:50:49,361
Speaker 5: I would probably suggest that anybody who has any information

928
00:50:49,441 --> 00:50:52,561
Speaker 5: about any of these cases that we're going to profile

929
00:50:52,721 --> 00:50:55,601
Speaker 5: on the Missing Matter, first point a call. I would

930
00:50:55,641 --> 00:51:00,041
Speaker 5: say to ring crime Stoppers and reference the person's name

931
00:51:00,401 --> 00:51:03,161
Speaker 5: in full and the number four crime Stoppers is one

932
00:51:03,161 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 5: eight hundred and three to three three zero zero zero.

933
00:51:06,361 --> 00:51:09,121
Speaker 5: But you can also send us an email through the

934
00:51:09,161 --> 00:51:13,201
Speaker 5: contact page on the Missing Matter website and I will

935
00:51:13,241 --> 00:51:17,561
Speaker 5: pass those messages on to the families who we talk to.

936
00:51:19,281 --> 00:51:21,241
Speaker 6: Next week on the Missing Matter.

937
00:51:22,601 --> 00:51:25,761
Speaker 9: Almost Deliban years are for his father vanished without a trace.

938
00:51:26,001 --> 00:51:29,001
Speaker 9: A Tasmanian man remains hopeful he may one day find

939
00:51:29,001 --> 00:51:30,081
Speaker 9: out what happened to him.

940
00:51:30,601 --> 00:51:33,961
Speaker 6: Yeah, like, it was horrible.

941
00:51:34,401 --> 00:51:39,161
Speaker 10: It was absolutely horrible. The last known confirmed sighting is

942
00:51:40,281 --> 00:51:44,361
Speaker 10: just out of Sheffield by a local mechanic who knew dad.

943
00:51:45,801 --> 00:51:48,441
Speaker 9: The family of Nicholas Slice has once again called for

944
00:51:48,441 --> 00:51:51,601
Speaker 9: help from the community in the hopes of closure.

945
00:51:51,601 --> 00:51:57,161
Speaker 10: Getting hold of that information hasn't been easy. They'd like

946
00:51:57,281 --> 00:52:02,321
Speaker 10: to charge me per page further documents. In the first

947
00:52:02,401 --> 00:52:05,201
Speaker 10: couple of days of that going missing, we were paying

948
00:52:05,241 --> 00:52:10,201
Speaker 10: fifteen hundred dollars an hour for helicopters. Was a big undertaking,

949
00:52:10,641 --> 00:52:11,801
Speaker 10: a big expense.

950
00:52:13,801 --> 00:52:17,041
Speaker 6: It's been a difficult decade for Jason Sales, who's never

951
00:52:17,041 --> 00:52:18,721
Speaker 6: given up searching for answers.