1 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey. 2 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 1: It's Tuesday, December three. The government says it will crack 3 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 1: down on sexual violence in the military and change the 4 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 1: rules for officers promotion, all part of a bid to 5 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: stop defense personnel self harming and taking their own lives. 6 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: That stories live right now at the Australian dot com Doreyu. 7 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: Just when you thought you had your head around the 8 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 1: Middle East, now there's fresh conflict in Syria. Dictator Bashah 9 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 1: al Assad is on a mission to reclaim the city 10 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 1: of Aleppo from rebels who seized it in a surprise 11 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: raid over the weekend. Assad is backed by Iran, Russia 12 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: and Hesbalah. But they're all a little busy right now. 13 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: Today our chief international correspondent, Cameron Stewart joins me to 14 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 1: sort out who's who and what they're fighting for. It 15 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 1: was a stunning and unexpectedly successful assault, the relative stability 16 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 1: brought about by decades of dictator rule destroyed in a 17 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: matter of days. In Aleppo's town squares, Rebels fired guns 18 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 1: into the sky. Music blared from vehicles as they skidded 19 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 1: across concrete and monuments to Syrian president Bashah al Assad 20 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 1: were toppled for days. The attack went unanswered by Syria's military. 21 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: Its allies in Russia and Iran finally sent reinforcements for 22 00:01:55,880 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: the regime to Hummer in the nation's northwest. The rebels 23 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: storming into Aleppo on the back of Toyota Hiluxes are 24 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 1: in Islamist militia called Hayat Tarier a cham HTS. Cameron 25 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 1: Stewart is the Australian's chief international correspondent. 26 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 2: When the Syrian Civil War pretty much ended in about 27 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 2: twenty eighteen, they had a bastion up in the northwest 28 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:26,800 Speaker 2: of the country and they've had their own little community 29 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 2: basically that they've run without being harassed by the Syrian government. 30 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 2: And what they did was they took this opportunity that 31 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 2: it was a great time to give a go at 32 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 2: knocking off Bashah l Assad, of course, the Syrian dictator. 33 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 2: They've been waiting to do this for a long time. 34 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 2: And so what they did was they charged into Aleppo, 35 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:51,079 Speaker 2: the huge northern city up there, and they went through 36 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:53,519 Speaker 2: it in seventy two hours. And I think they even 37 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:56,240 Speaker 2: shocked themselves how quickly they took the city and all 38 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 2: of a sudden, you have a civil war which has 39 00:02:58,880 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 2: been reignited. 40 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 1: Syria's civil war began in twenty eleven, growing out of 41 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:09,360 Speaker 1: the so called Arab Spring uprisings, where mass protests across 42 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:21,640 Speaker 1: the Middle East began calling for democratic reform. In Syria, 43 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: the protesters were demanding an end to the regime of 44 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:28,800 Speaker 1: dictator Bashah al Asad, a former ophthalmologist and soldier who's 45 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 1: been in power since two thousand, when he took over 46 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 1: from his father, Hafez al Assad. Russia swept in on 47 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 1: the side of Bashi al Assad, helping him launch a 48 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 1: ruthless crackdown as the rebellion ballooned into a full blown war. 49 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 1: From twenty fifteen, Russian airstrikes killed tens of thousands of 50 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: Syrians and shifted the war in Asad's favor. But now 51 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: Russia's busy handling its own brutal war in Ukraine. 52 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 2: So the situation has come about because of two seismic 53 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 2: events in the world. One was the October seven Hamas 54 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 2: massacre of Israelis and also Russia's invasion of Ukraine. So 55 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 2: what that's done is it's knocked out the three main 56 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 2: allies of Assad, the three allies who helped him win 57 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:20,480 Speaker 2: that civil war from twenty eleven to twenty eighteen, and 58 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:27,599 Speaker 2: they were Hesbalah in Lebanon, and also Iran, and also Russia. 59 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 2: And each of those allies is now involved fighting against democracies, 60 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:37,279 Speaker 2: very much weakened, very much distracted, and very much not 61 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 2: in the mood to be sending an awful lot of 62 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 2: military assistance as they did last time to Asad. So 63 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:46,839 Speaker 2: suddenly he now finds himself much more alone than he 64 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:50,719 Speaker 2: ever was, with this rebel group advancing very quickly towards him. 65 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 1: Let's talk about that trio cam Iran, Hesbala and Russia. 66 00:04:56,839 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 1: Hezbla is essentially a puppet of Iran. It's the way 67 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 1: Iran flexes its muscle in Lebanon and therefore inflicts pain 68 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 1: on Israel, on Iran's behalf. But what's Russia's role in 69 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:09,719 Speaker 1: this game? 70 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 2: Russia, It considers Syria a very valuable, its most valuable 71 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 2: ally in the region. And in twenty fifteen, Russia effectively 72 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:23,919 Speaker 2: turned around the civil war in Asad's favor by providing 73 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 2: troops and air support. And you might recall very very 74 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 2: vigorous and quite brutal Russian bombing of Syrian cities and 75 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:36,719 Speaker 2: that really did turn the war in Assards. In fact, frankly, 76 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 2: it saved him as a president. So he's been very 77 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:43,160 Speaker 2: grateful to Russia ever since. Now Russia is still its biggest, 78 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 2: his biggest supporter. It still has warplanes in the country 79 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:48,719 Speaker 2: and in fact, we've actually seen some of these planes 80 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 2: being deployed to bomb Aleppo in the last few days, 81 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:56,719 Speaker 2: because after the rebels took it over. But the thing is, 82 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:59,280 Speaker 2: the Russians took a lot of the military support they 83 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 2: had in Syria out of Syria and brought it back 84 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 2: to Russia to be deployed. 85 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 3: Against Ukraine in the war against Ukraine. 86 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 2: And so there are far fewer Russian forces now in 87 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 2: Syria than there were before, and it really is an 88 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 2: open question as to how much use they are going 89 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 2: to be. Certainly there'll be much use, much less used 90 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 2: to Asad than they were last time. 91 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 1: And what's in it for Vladimir Persian to be propping 92 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: up for al Assad. 93 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:27,599 Speaker 2: He wants to be a geostrategic player, He wants to 94 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:32,039 Speaker 2: have influence around all of Russia's region and with Syria, 95 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 2: you know, he has a base there that he can 96 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 2: propagate Moscow's interests political, strategic, economic from that base, and 97 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 2: he is He worries that if he loses Assad, then 98 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 2: Russia loses its influence in the Middle East. 99 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 1: The rebel army that's taken Aleppo back has connections to Turkey. 100 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 1: What do we know about that relationship. 101 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:02,360 Speaker 2: Yes, it's a very shady relationship. Before this group HTS 102 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 2: which is what the rebel group is. It's an offshoot 103 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:07,919 Speaker 2: of the Nusra Front, which in fact was allied to 104 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 2: Al Qaedra at one point, although they are distancing themselves 105 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 2: very much from that. They say they are a much 106 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 2: more moderate group. But they're still listed as a terror 107 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 2: group by the United States, and they are being backed 108 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 2: by Turkey, but we don't quite know to what extent 109 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 2: they're being backed by Turkey. Turkey does not like Asad, 110 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 2: it wants Assad out, but how much it actually likes 111 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 2: this group is very unclear too, because you have an 112 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 2: Islamist group that is labeled as a terror organization fighting Assad, 113 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 2: who of course is backed by Russia, Iran and HESBLA, 114 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 2: and of course is no friend of the West either. 115 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 1: Coming up, the rebel militia was formally linked to Al Qaeda, 116 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 1: So is it going to be kinder to civilians than 117 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 1: side that's after the break. Presumably the enemies of Bashah 118 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 1: alas Sade, for example, the United States and perhaps Israel 119 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: would be glad that there's a distraction going on for 120 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: him now, that that Syria is now riven again by 121 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: civil war, and that he'll have to turn his focus 122 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:35,680 Speaker 1: on defeating this insurgency in Aleppo. But what does it 123 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 1: mean for the rest of the region? Cam If anything. 124 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 2: It certainly destabilizes the region Claire. It's amazing how it's 125 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:48,560 Speaker 2: been like this ever since October seven. It has spread 126 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 2: like a bushfire, fairly slowly. Obviously into Gaza. We've had 127 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 2: the warring Gaza, then we had it spread into Lebanon. 128 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:59,959 Speaker 2: We've had the Hooties in Yemen being attacking and being bombed. 129 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 2: We've had Iranian bat militia in Syria and in Iraq 130 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 2: attack Israel. I mean, the region is very slowly going 131 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 2: up in flames, and it's getting larger and larger with 132 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 2: every passing month. And so to have the possibility of 133 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:20,959 Speaker 2: another civil war in Syria is hugely destabilizing for the 134 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 2: entire region. And we don't know yet of course what 135 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 2: where this offensive will go. I think the rebels have 136 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:31,960 Speaker 2: surprised themselves by going so quickly so far, and so 137 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 2: it's going to be interesting to see whether they want 138 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 2: to keep pushing on towards Damascus to really threaten Assad's 139 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 2: actual existence. And of course it's unclear to what degree 140 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 2: the allies of Asad will come to his aid, because 141 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 2: as we said, they are so weak and compared to 142 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 2: what they once were. So will Assad actually mount a 143 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 2: major offensive to try and retake a leper or is 144 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 2: he not strong enough? And they're the questions I think 145 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:00,560 Speaker 2: in the next three or four days we're going to 146 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 2: see answered. 147 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 1: Ordinary Syrians have suffered terribly under Bashah al Assad. He's 148 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 1: a brutal dictator. His regime has been accused of shocking 149 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: crimes of terror against his own people. But is there 150 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 1: any suggestion that life would be better for them under 151 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: the rebel army. 152 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 2: People are actually fleeing the government controlled areas Assyria and 153 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 2: going up to the rebel held areas that includes in 154 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 2: the northwest which are controlled by the Hts, and in 155 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 2: the northeast of. 156 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 3: Syria, which is controlled by the Kurds. 157 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:37,320 Speaker 2: And the reason why they're doing that is because the 158 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 2: basics of life up there are seen to be better 159 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 2: than they are in the government controlled areas, and that 160 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 2: means very simple things like electricity and water supplies, etc. 161 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:50,839 Speaker 2: They're much better organized than they are in the government 162 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 2: controlled areas, and I think that flight speaks a lot 163 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 2: to the fact that Assad is very much on the nose, 164 00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:00,439 Speaker 2: and that's partly because he promised to be the civil 165 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:01,839 Speaker 2: war to improve the economy. 166 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:03,320 Speaker 3: It really didn't happen. 167 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 2: The economic conditions across the government controlled areas are very 168 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 2: very grim, and people who have been cheering their rebels 169 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 2: as they came in to a Leppo and move further south, 170 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 2: locals have been going out and cheering them. So I 171 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 2: think that says a lot about how Asad is on 172 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 2: the nose. 173 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 1: You mentioned the Kurds. That's an ethnic group that's been 174 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 1: fighting for their own homeland for many, many generations. Now 175 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 1: they're managing to run what seems like a fairly functional 176 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 1: state in the northeast of Syria. Who's backing the Curds 177 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 1: now and what role do they play in relation to 178 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 1: the other side regime. 179 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 2: Well, they've basically got the northeast of Syria. Now that 180 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:46,479 Speaker 2: was sort of after the Civil war, they just occupied 181 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 2: that the government troops could not come back and retake it, 182 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 2: so it's almost like an autonomous region for them at 183 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 2: the moment. 184 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 3: Clear, even though it's very unofficial. 185 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:58,080 Speaker 2: The US, though, has backed the Kurds, and in fact 186 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 2: there's US troops stationed in the eastern there's several hundred 187 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:04,200 Speaker 2: of them there. Now there's no suggestion that the US 188 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 2: is going to suddenly back the curves to move against 189 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 2: a sad but they are a big player in this 190 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 2: whole equation, and you know they're sitting there and they 191 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 2: don't want to sard in power either. So there's lots 192 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 2: of opposition groups who have different ideologies up in northern 193 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:21,560 Speaker 2: Syria that want a side out of power, but they 194 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 2: don't necessarily agree with each other. 195 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 1: Cameron Stewart is The Australian's chief international correspondent. The Family 196 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 1: Court has granted cross sex hormone treatment to a gender 197 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 1: dys for a fifteen year old born a boy but 198 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:43,479 Speaker 1: who has identified as a girl since the age of three. 199 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:46,560 Speaker 1: It's a complex case and the judge says there's a 200 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 1: lack of legal material about whether kids who transition end 201 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:54,679 Speaker 1: up with regret that's an exclusive live now at the 202 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:57,080 Speaker 1: Australian dot Com dot a