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Speaker 1: The conversation around violence against women in Australia is rightly

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Speaker 1: front and center in our society. Every story that we

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Speaker 1: say about yet another woman dying at the hands of

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Speaker 1: her partner is horrible and rightly grabs the headline. Yet

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Speaker 1: that story isn't mentioning the multiple women who attend er

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Speaker 1: or seek refuge because they are also victims of violence

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Speaker 1: or abuse. I'm incredibly concerned about the safety of my

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Speaker 1: wife and my stepdaughter, these two women who I adore,

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Speaker 1: and they're out in the world which cannot be a

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Speaker 1: very safe place for them sometimes. Yet I am also

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Speaker 1: incredibly concerned about my son, this young, innocent, four year

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Speaker 1: old boy with a big, enormous kind heart and empathy

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Speaker 1: which I still can't achieve. And I'm fifty. This little

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Speaker 1: boy will grow up into a country where, according to

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Speaker 1: the most recent statistics, he is twice as likely to

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Speaker 1: die by a homicide than a woman is. And he

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Speaker 1: is also far more likely than a woman to be

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Speaker 1: a victim of violence. And when you expand that a bit,

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Speaker 1: to think that the idea that my son would one

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Speaker 1: day be a perpetrator that is just far too horrible

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Speaker 1: to imagine. But when you look at the stats. There

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Speaker 1: are kids his age four year olds right now running

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Speaker 1: around in a park somewhere, and twenty years from now,

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Speaker 1: one of them will use violence as the best response

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Speaker 1: to a situation. It's terrible to think about. Being a

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Speaker 1: young man is really dangerous. I've been one now. None

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Speaker 1: of this is to say that one is better or

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Speaker 1: worse off than the other. I'm certainly not looking to

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Speaker 1: draw any kind of moral equivalent once. I guess for me,

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Speaker 1: when I think about this little boy, I wonder if

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Speaker 1: asking men to do better, which, while I understand that

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Speaker 1: is quite understandable, I wonder, though, would it be more

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Speaker 1: effective if we ask a different question. And that question,

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Speaker 1: for example, might be, how can we help young men

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Speaker 1: learn to express their masculinity and express their identity in

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Speaker 1: a healthy way when they're young, so that once they

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Speaker 1: change size and shape in their tea and years, they

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Speaker 1: are a lot less of a danger to themselves and

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Speaker 1: to other people around them. And it's this question which

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Speaker 1: led me directly to Maggie Dent, one of our country's

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Speaker 1: most successful independently published authors. Maggie is a former high

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Speaker 1: school teacher. She's a youth counselor, a family counselor. Now

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Speaker 1: she works Wonders as a parenting and resilience educator. She's

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Speaker 1: a mother of four boys herself. She's a grandmother. She's

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Speaker 1: just the most brilliant champion for young men in our community,

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Speaker 1: and her work really centers on helping them grow to

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Speaker 1: be kind, compassionate, strong adults. She writes plenty of books

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Speaker 1: about curls too. Don't get me wrong, however, the way

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Speaker 1: that Maggie Dan champions the development of young boys as

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Speaker 1: an upstream action step in the problem of violence in

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Speaker 1: our community at the moment, it really aligns with my values.

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Speaker 1: And I just adore Maggie Dent and I know you

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Speaker 1: will too. Before we get there, though, I do need

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Speaker 1: to play some ads. I'll be back after the break. Gooday,

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Speaker 1: this is better than yesterday, helping you make today better

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Speaker 1: than yesterday. Since twenty thirteen, my name is Osha Ginsburg

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Speaker 1: a podcast. I'm a best selling author. I'm a husband,

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Speaker 1: I'm a dad, I'm a stepdad. I am a cargo

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Speaker 1: bike rider, I'm a crosstown traffic avoid I'm a stranded

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Speaker 1: cycling assistant with a spare multi tool. And I am

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Speaker 1: a man who rides a bicycle home from the plumbing

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Speaker 1: co op with tubes of pressure pipe ockey strapped to

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Speaker 1: the back of his bike. And I'm glad you're here.

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Speaker 1: If this is your first episode, welcome, I'm glad you're here.

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Speaker 1: You can find every single step we've ever done, going

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Speaker 1: back to twenty thirteen over at Oshiginsburg dot com. Please

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Speaker 1: thank the person who sent you here. That's the number

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Speaker 1: one way that people find out about this show. If

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Speaker 1: there's also a newsletter there and you can get in

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Speaker 1: touch with me if you want. Maggie dan is on

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Speaker 1: the show today. She is just magnificent. If you've never

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Speaker 1: heard of her, you are in for a treat. Maggie's

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Speaker 1: a mother and a grandmother from Western Australia. She's literally

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Speaker 1: got decades of personal experience to draw on and uses

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Speaker 1: that once it is robustly underpinned by the very latest

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Speaker 1: research on childhood development. Well, what she's been able to

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Speaker 1: do is become one of the most important parenting educators

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Speaker 1: in the world as far as I'm concerned. I put

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Speaker 1: a link to her books and her live seminars and

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Speaker 1: her lectures and things in the show notes, because I

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Speaker 1: know you're going to want to follow up on this.

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Speaker 1: I adore her. She's just the best. And I know

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Speaker 1: you're going to love this. Come hang downstairs at my

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Speaker 1: house with the absolutely brilliant Daggie Dan. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: coming around. How's your Kappa? It's good to have an

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Speaker 1: afternoon cup of tea with you? Is it just one

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Speaker 1: of this world's great choice, great delights? I would to

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Speaker 1: join you, but I've had enough caffeine today. Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: enough to know that I've had enough.

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Speaker 2: That's one of your lessons you have learned in life,

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Speaker 2: isn't it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. It took me probably longer than I would have liked.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Bruce Robinson, I created the Fathering Project. We did

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Speaker 2: some crazy stuff recently just to stick up on YouTube

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Speaker 2: because we're both all wise. But and he said, I

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Speaker 2: keep reminding men about Joe, And I said, who's Joe?

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Speaker 2: He said, the joy of enough. There's a lot of

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Speaker 2: depth in that.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, I was talking to someone else who went

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Speaker 1: to my school, a bit older than me, but it

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Speaker 1: was my school. He was a guest this morning, and

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about alcohol, and I was like, say this

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Speaker 1: is a beer here. I'm like, the good times are

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Speaker 1: about this. The good times are about this much into

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Speaker 1: the next one. That's when things are going to get good.

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Speaker 1: But you didn't know.

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Speaker 2: The best you feel is after your second and that's it,

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Speaker 2: and you go, God, I'm feeling this good. Let's double.

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Speaker 2: It goes downhill. I have a very tight tight the

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Speaker 2: boys all know.

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Speaker 1: How did you talk to your boys about alcohol? And

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Speaker 1: did it work?

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Speaker 3: Well?

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Speaker 2: I had to realistic girls, right, and that was you're

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Speaker 2: not going out to parties where there's alcohol until you're

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Speaker 2: in year eleven, which is a year turn sixteen. Right.

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Speaker 2: I'm never buying you alcohol. I never want you to

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Speaker 2: get in a car with anyone who's drinking. I'll come

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Speaker 2: pick you up. Because you didn't have you ride shairs

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Speaker 2: and things in those days, and I made sure that

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Speaker 2: we didn't have spirits or anything in the house, and

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Speaker 2: because they probably wouldn't drink it if I was around,

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Speaker 2: but you had a few of your mates. Yes, sorry,

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Speaker 2: people go there, Indiana Jones, I can trust my son.

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Speaker 2: I mean no, you can trust your son until his

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Speaker 2: mates are there, and then it's a little pack thing

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Speaker 2: that happens, and there's very little capacity to be able

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Speaker 2: to hold a ground. If you and your mates are

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Speaker 2: having some fun and taken risky choices.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm one of four boys. I didn't realize how

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Speaker 1: much my decision making was impaired by the amount of

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Speaker 1: other boys, and then later on in life men that

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Speaker 1: I was around until probably way later than I should have.

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Speaker 1: What do you tell teen boys? And I know? Yes,

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Speaker 1: your latest you yep, Australia's most successful independent author, Close

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Speaker 1: to Room.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, just somebody.

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Speaker 1: Look, you've sold a shitload of books, the tenth and

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Speaker 1: final coming right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you've written one of the more rich ones about teenages. Right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: What to parents of particularly the teenage boys, What do

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Speaker 1: they need to know about your son's decision making capabilities

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Speaker 1: once more boys are added into the mix?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we need to go about one more step, and

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Speaker 2: that is that, you know, the prefrontal cortex, which helps

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Speaker 2: us make really good.

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Speaker 1: Decisions about the brain.

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Speaker 2: Second part, front is just so underdeveloped, which means that

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Speaker 2: when we say what were you thinking and why did

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Speaker 2: you do that? That two, When you get into these

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Speaker 2: adolescent years, you're wired for more risk and boys are

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Speaker 2: hunting dope for me. They want to have fun, right,

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Speaker 2: they want to make their mates laugh, they want to

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Speaker 2: do dumb shit, and they're biologically wired to be drawn

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Speaker 2: to their peers and their mates. Same for girls. And

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Speaker 2: there's a really important reason for that, Osha, And that is,

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Speaker 2: if you were in a traditional kinship community, the girls

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Speaker 2: need to go find a bunch of girls because they're

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Speaker 2: going to start breeding soon, and the boys need to

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Speaker 2: go and you move away from their parents so that

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Speaker 2: they don't have to breed with their parents.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: So it's a really and that's why I keep explaining

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Speaker 2: that there's a reason for that biological shift. So when

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Speaker 2: you've got I have to belong and so they're looking

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Speaker 2: for connection, they're looking for status, they're looking for how

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Speaker 2: can my mates faces light up because they like me?

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Speaker 2: The validation, and then you combine it with all of

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Speaker 2: those other things, especially the no gabba. See, we only

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Speaker 2: found out about this when I taught teenager. Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: only taught TV just forty four years ago. I wish

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Speaker 2: I'd known about this. So it's a gamma and mean

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Speaker 2: amino buttric acid and it is an impulse inhibiting neurochemical.

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Speaker 2: It turns completely off in the teenage years. Wow, this

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Speaker 2: is why I bat for boys so much, because it's

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Speaker 2: not Therefore, they didn't ask for that to be turned off.

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Speaker 2: They didn't ask for all these drives to happen. They

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Speaker 2: didn't ask for the surges of testosterone. They didn't ask

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Speaker 2: for their brain to get pruned. And there they left,

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Speaker 2: floundering around, getting busted and shouted out in shame for

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Speaker 2: making really dumb choices. Whereas if we weren't in a

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Speaker 2: modern world with all the things that are potentially dangerous,

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Speaker 2: they probably would be, you know, probably trying to kill

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Speaker 2: saber toothed tigers and things without enough weapons or something.

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Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: Do we have gabba when we're younger?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's turned off and then it comes back on

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Speaker 2: a little bit towards eighteen. Obviously the brain's growing each time.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, I used to you know, I'd be exasperated

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Speaker 2: in my classrooms at time as well, because there's no

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Speaker 2: gabba there for a fourteen year old boy. So let's

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Speaker 2: read with a fart, well, shit mess. Someone's got a

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Speaker 2: stiffy I can see it from me, and miss like

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Speaker 2: you go, come on? Is that the way we behave

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Speaker 2: It's the impulsivity of boys who don't want to be

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Speaker 2: in my English class because it sucks, who want to

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Speaker 2: have some fun but who want everyone to laugh. So

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Speaker 2: it's not just about the boys, right, and those who

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Speaker 2: get it, they won't punished boys like that, they've just

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Speaker 2: screwed their nose up. Well shake their head and I go, oh, yes, sorry, miss,

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean. We correct and we give

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Speaker 2: them suggestions, you know. But I still hear of boys

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Speaker 2: being publicly shouted out and shamed at and criticized. And

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Speaker 2: that is the worst thing you can do to a

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Speaker 2: teenage boy, surgeon with testosterone, who's desperate to be liked

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Speaker 2: in that space when you're shame in publicly.

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Speaker 1: So if you could go back to maybe nineteen eighty

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Speaker 1: eight to a particular school, I went to a Brisbane

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Speaker 1: and let the faculty know there's probably a thousand something

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Speaker 1: kids that would be grateful.

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Speaker 2: And I think we're moving away from the fact that

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Speaker 2: behaviorism is how we change human behavior because the research

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Speaker 2: is super strong that unless particularly kids and teenagers feel

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Speaker 2: relationally safe in other words, as a safe growing up

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Speaker 2: near them, they're already going to be in a stress mode.

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Speaker 2: And then if you put them into an environment where

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Speaker 2: they can't succeed, particularly boys, so not only they feeling

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Speaker 2: kind of no one really cares about me, and now

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Speaker 2: you're going to throw a you know, like you want

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Speaker 2: me to do that test or you want me to

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Speaker 2: try and write an essay and I'm at literate. Then

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Speaker 2: you're putting them into a hyper stress state and then

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Speaker 2: when they can't achieve it, they get punished. That's just

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Speaker 2: beyond ridiculous that we're still doing that.

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Speaker 1: What can we do for these counts?

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Speaker 2: Seriously, if I could have done it forty five years

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Speaker 2: that you can do it today. The very first thing

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Speaker 2: is you make a classroom safe for every student. And

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Speaker 2: I was co ed, so when they came in, you know,

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Speaker 2: one of the first things I was, we need to

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Speaker 2: create some rules, classroom rules. So I'm not giving them

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Speaker 2: to you. We're going to work them out. So you

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Speaker 2: get into some groups and I want you to work

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Speaker 2: out what sort of classroom we want, so I can

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Speaker 2: work out what I want and we see if we

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Speaker 2: can put it on the board. So when we cooperate

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Speaker 2: and give autonomy in creating the environment we want, they're

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Speaker 2: all got to buy in. And if we still walk

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Speaker 2: in and say this is the rules, do it or else,

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Speaker 2: and then we have that conversation. So what happens if

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Speaker 2: somebody you know, has forgotten what they are and what

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Speaker 2: do we do in that space? And they have another

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Speaker 2: big conversation about that. There's no shouting in our classroom.

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Speaker 2: So I made these agreements early on. And then the

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Speaker 2: other message was my mission in this classroom is that

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Speaker 2: wherever you are academically in English, I want you to improve. Right.

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Speaker 2: But I'm going to tell you every kid in this

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Speaker 2: class matter is equally to me, not just the ones

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Speaker 2: who you get a's easily and the ones who can't read.

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Speaker 2: You all matter to me, and I'm here to help

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Speaker 2: you grow a little bit more. And that agreement, no question,

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Speaker 2: hardly ever have they ever heard it right? And it

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Speaker 2: made a world of difference, right, And so what happens

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Speaker 2: when you've got that the environment is actually coming from

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Speaker 2: a different place. And then I had to learn and

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Speaker 2: you would relate to this. I think I'm looking around,

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Speaker 2: you know, my first year of teaching, and I'm looking

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Speaker 2: up that I've got there's a couple of boys walking around.

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Speaker 2: I go, mate, what are you doing? He said, I'll

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Speaker 2: welcome miss. So you're walking to get somebody? He said, no,

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Speaker 2: just walking? And what are you doing? Mate? He said,

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Speaker 2: I'll walk them too. Right. So okay, maybe we might

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Speaker 2: need to do a bit more movement. Right, how about

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Speaker 2: every twenty minutes we do a brain break and we

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Speaker 2: get up and do something and I want everyone up right.

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Speaker 2: So we started doing brain breaks, which I had never

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Speaker 2: read anything about that. That's a good idea. I just

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Speaker 2: intuitively knew because I'm part bloke and I like to walk.

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Speaker 2: Not only that, we had joke breaks. We had put

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Speaker 2: your head on the desk and have a rest break,

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Speaker 2: and no girl went backwards in my classrooms. But what

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Speaker 2: we found was the boys weren't getting busted because they

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Speaker 2: weren't able to sit still, that fundamental need that helps

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Speaker 2: to regulate the brain. I bet you're a bit fidgety,

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Speaker 2: were you?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 1: Mate, can you see this on my desk here? So

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Speaker 1: this one's my favorite. Actually feel the weight of that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a good one. I've got to find ones that

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Speaker 1: make no noise because Andy, my audio producer, he's like.

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Speaker 2: You can still hear it?

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Speaker 1: Can he And he's got I can't hear anything. But

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Speaker 1: Andy's like, superha.

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Speaker 2: I just love it because you know, I look back now,

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Speaker 2: and neurodivergent wasn't really a big word, wasn't even word.

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Speaker 2: You know, we knew there were some of our boys

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Speaker 2: that were probably ADHD, but I never hardly ever had

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Speaker 2: anyone talk about autism in our high schools. They were

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Speaker 2: the quirky ones, particularly boys. And you know, when I

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Speaker 2: look back at it, when even those kids have a

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Speaker 2: buy into the environment, we're creating an environment that works

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Speaker 2: for them. Yeah, right, everyone had an input, So that

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Speaker 2: might have been why I might not have noticed them

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Speaker 2: as much. But I definitely when you get FOTA and

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Speaker 2: you're old boys who are also possibly ADHD, you have

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Speaker 2: a lot of fun in your classroom. That's all I'm

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Speaker 2: going to say.

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Speaker 1: Don't quite a mix.

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Speaker 2: I'd always get a lot of work done.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned the evolutionary reasons for our the gabber and

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Speaker 1: testosterones and things like this, and the just separating from

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Speaker 1: the parents. I can't believe at all that there are

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Speaker 1: evolutionary reasons. There are not evolutionary reasons for neurodivergence. That

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Speaker 1: the issue is when you're trying to create a singular system,

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Speaker 1: whether it be an education system, justice system, sometimes the

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Speaker 1: health system, to fit as many people inside a bell

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Speaker 1: curve as you can on the budget you've got. Yet

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Speaker 1: there are people who are naturally occurring forms of human

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Speaker 1: that just won't fit, that's right, And how you then

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Speaker 1: get conformity or regulate behavior on the outside. Yeah, I'm

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Speaker 1: glad to say that we know a bit more about

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Speaker 1: this stuff right now.

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Speaker 2: But not as much as we need to, though, because

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Speaker 2: I still hear particularly neurodivergent boys still getting punished for

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Speaker 2: an inability to concentrate or appear neurotypical in an environment

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Speaker 2: that is already threatening.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: I still remember this gorgeous boy because I stepped out

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Speaker 2: of the classroom eventually, like a number of years later,

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Speaker 2: and I was working over the boy, building his capacity

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Speaker 2: to cope in the school environment, right, you know, giving

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Speaker 2: him structures and scaffoldings and you know, problem solving. And anyway,

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Speaker 2: I got a call from his mum one afternoon. She

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Speaker 2: was hit almost hysterical. He said, you got to talk

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Speaker 2: to him. I said, why is that? No, you got

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Speaker 2: in trouble at school, But you wait to hear what

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Speaker 2: he did. Anyway, he came for his chat with me

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Speaker 2: and he says, yeah, so what happened mate? And he says, ah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: the debt really just absolutely slagged me off in front

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Speaker 2: of a whole heap of kids like rip right into

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Speaker 2: me and I lost it And I said, ah, because

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Speaker 2: quite often when nearmigdala and boys and men gets fired up,

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Speaker 2: it comes out of the body. Right, So what did

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Speaker 2: you do? He said?

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Speaker 1: Ah?

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Speaker 2: I took off and then I had a great idea

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Speaker 2: after I was hiding away for a while, so I

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Speaker 2: went back and I grafeated his car and I went ah, right,

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Speaker 2: and he said yeah, the only problem was I did

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Speaker 2: it with my name. Yeah, it didn't go well, did it.

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Speaker 2: Now he's feeling stupid on top of going to get punished,

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Speaker 2: you know, And I just sat with him, went yeah,

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Speaker 2: that sucked a He says, yeah, Mum's going to lose it,

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Speaker 2: and I say, yeah, she is. You know you're going

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Speaker 2: to survive this, and maybe that's going to say next

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Speaker 2: time I get really upset by somebody publicly, what are

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Speaker 2: the choices you're going to have? Because until you give

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Speaker 2: particularly boys another choice after they've mucked up, there's a

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Speaker 2: really good chance I'll do exactly the same thing again. Rights.

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Speaker 2: It's just one of the quirks that you need a

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Speaker 2: prefrontal cortex to be able to go great. That didn't

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Speaker 2: work well, So next time, I could possibly do Plan A,

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Speaker 2: Plan B, Plan C. So really good humans who work

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Speaker 2: with particularly teen boys, are the people safe enough to

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Speaker 2: problem solve with them with possibilities because most of the time,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to say ninety omercent at the time, no intention,

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Speaker 2: break the window, hurt the kid, hurt themselves, damage the wall. No,

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Speaker 2: that wasn't part of the plan, and yet it happened.

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Speaker 1: One of the things you met Gery upstairs, who's twenty now.

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Speaker 1: She was ten when I met her, and pretty much

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Speaker 1: from early on, both her and her mum kind of

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Speaker 1: looked at me like why don't you just do this?

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Speaker 1: And I try to explain to them it's like you're

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Speaker 1: you know, you'll think about the world with your brain

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Speaker 1: and I'm thinking about it with my brain. But because

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Speaker 1: they're so similar, they have and they've lived together for

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Speaker 1: a long time, and you know, like, yeah, there's this

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know what it is. Maybe

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Speaker 1: that's no idea of like I don't know, we know

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Speaker 1: what to do. How come you don't also know what

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Speaker 1: to do?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, look, I think that's what kind of blew

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Speaker 2: me away. When my first granddaughter turned up when I

376
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Speaker 2: when she was eighteen months of age, and I saw

377
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Speaker 2: her in such a deep thought, and I'm watching her thinking,

378
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Speaker 2: I want I know I raised four sons and I

379
00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:07,560
Speaker 2: haven't ever seen them in that deeper thought. Anyway. She

380
00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:09,400
Speaker 2: went over and our daddy for a biscuit, and I went,

381
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Speaker 2: she has been sitting there working out how am I

382
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Speaker 2: going to get one on one? Who do I go to.

383
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Speaker 2: That capacity for deep thought, for pausing before action is

384
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Speaker 2: actually pretty typical for a statistically significant number of girls,

385
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Speaker 2: as the reverse is to boys. They just do it.

386
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Speaker 2: They're wide but straight away now, which is the other

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Speaker 2: reason I wrote Mother and Our Boys, was because all

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Speaker 2: these mums are going, what the hell? What do they listen?

389
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Speaker 2: What do they do the same thing? Why I'm always going,

390
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Speaker 2: don't do that, stop doing that, stop touching that. I said,

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Speaker 2: they're wired differently. I still think it's you know, we

392
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Speaker 2: can't prove that our biological drives, but if we know

393
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Speaker 2: that we can bring things on our genomes DNA, that

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Speaker 2: single focus capacity. When I explain that, I a whole

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Speaker 2: lot of relationships improve. And that's that. The men, the

396
00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:04,400
Speaker 2: number one thing was first, you either protect us, right,

397
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Speaker 2: that's you know, they'll lay their life down for us

398
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Speaker 2: in a second. So they've got to be able to

399
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Speaker 2: kill really well. Two, if there's nothing you need to

400
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:16,280
Speaker 2: kill to keep everybody else safe, then you've got to

401
00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:19,800
Speaker 2: kill a large protein for dinner, so it's the deer

402
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:22,880
Speaker 2: or whatever. And if neither of those need to happen

403
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,040
Speaker 2: because there's still enough meat, then you're going to go

404
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:29,440
Speaker 2: keep practicing killing. And then you know, you do one

405
00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:31,640
Speaker 2: thing at a time. You only go and kill one thing.

406
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:36,320
Speaker 2: You don't write. And it's this single focus that frustrates

407
00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:38,240
Speaker 2: the heck out of a lot of women because the

408
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:42,560
Speaker 2: women in those situations had to do basically everything else,

409
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,200
Speaker 2: looking after the elderly, the sick, the babies, a little time,

410
00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:48,720
Speaker 2: making sure the kids didn't drown. You're getting the kind

411
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,680
Speaker 2: of berries and seeds, or you're getting the smaller protein.

412
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Speaker 2: You're also creating the leather for that, you're getting the medicines,

413
00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:59,920
Speaker 2: and you were right. So their brain is wired different,

414
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Speaker 2: which is why we've had such an issue talking about

415
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Speaker 2: how the mental load of modern mums is just drowning them.

416
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:12,480
Speaker 2: Because you know, our world has got even more demands

417
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:16,680
Speaker 2: on particularly the organizer of the family, and we know

418
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:19,760
Speaker 2: that most of it's done through a phone, and all

419
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Speaker 2: the apps from school or wherever can only be on

420
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 2: one phone, and I mostly that's mums. So they are

421
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:31,160
Speaker 2: now spending more time than ever in a disconnected space

422
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Speaker 2: from their own children, trying to keep all the balls

423
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Speaker 2: in the air, and obviously they've sometimes put too many

424
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 2: balls in the mix because they keep on wanting to

425
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 2: do too. I've burnt out twice my hands right there,

426
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,200
Speaker 2: and for a guy to understand that, who goes, I

427
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 2: just do that, finish that. Then I go and do

428
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 2: that and finish that, or I do that and I

429
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,239
Speaker 2: finish that, and we've got all these things. We call

430
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 2: it looping, like at nine million things half finished that

431
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,160
Speaker 2: we're going to get back to that we lay awake

432
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Speaker 2: as we go to bed at night, going haven't done this,

433
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,119
Speaker 2: whereas men get into the sleep box, which is a

434
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:07,200
Speaker 2: single box, and usually go to sleep quite quickly.

435
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 1: So if there's probably someone right now who's doing laundry,

436
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 1: thinking about there's not enough chicken for dinner and such

437
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:14,680
Speaker 1: and touch of that, and they're the one that can

438
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 1: have broccoly, but the other one can. Two birthday partners

439
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 1: text asking where the fucking socks are? Don't you know

440
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 1: where your own fucking socks are. What would you say

441
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:23,400
Speaker 1: to that woman?

442
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,960
Speaker 2: Okay, if you're with a co parent, right, you're going

443
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:29,600
Speaker 2: to have to sit down and go my to do

444
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 2: list is too long, dude. I don't care whether it's

445
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 2: male or female. But you sit down there and go, Okay,

446
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:37,120
Speaker 2: let's see you make lunches three days a week because

447
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:38,680
Speaker 2: your kids are too young. If they're old enough, get

448
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:40,640
Speaker 2: them to make their own. Sorry, you got to start

449
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:42,680
Speaker 2: get stepping them up, because the more the kids do,

450
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 2: the less you have to do. So one of the

451
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:47,680
Speaker 2: things we need to know with men is that they're

452
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 2: wonderful humans, you know, but their memory is not quite

453
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:56,160
Speaker 2: as efficient. So if you have been given the lesson

454
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:58,440
Speaker 2: and how to do the lunches, take a photo of it,

455
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 2: because there's a chance that you might have to go

456
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 2: away for work for a week, or you might have

457
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 2: something else you've got to do and you're not there,

458
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:07,440
Speaker 2: and then you come back to it and you go, holy,

459
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 2: what goes in the lunch box again? Right? So we

460
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 2: need to make sure that as we upskill the to

461
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,399
Speaker 2: do lest, we're giving it the strategies, you know. And

462
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,119
Speaker 2: I think we've had lessons off Bluey. Haven't we around

463
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 2: those things? Thank God for Bandit such a beautiful.

464
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 1: Role, greatest in Australia. Not perfect, I get about it

465
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 1: good enough.

466
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,880
Speaker 2: I think the other one, you know. And I've done

467
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 2: a lot of women's retreats. I've worked with women's retreats

468
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 2: for fifteen years and sometimes I need a time they

469
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 2: need to get away from their family so they can

470
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 2: screen the hell out of everything and let all that

471
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:47,639
Speaker 2: stuff go because it, you know, it builds up in

472
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:49,919
Speaker 2: our nervous system that we're never ever going to get

473
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:54,119
Speaker 2: in front. And I one of my messages to parents,

474
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 2: particularly mums, is you'll never get in front because they're

475
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 2: already wearing the next load of washing. So just drop

476
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 2: the bar aim lower, you know, and stopped looking at

477
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 2: Insta where the people seem to have Alis Schmick or

478
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 2: sorted and it's just not real.

479
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm listening in the garden filling a hole,

480
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 1: and I'm listening to the Jonathan Hype book, the latest one. Yeah,

481
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 1: oh fuck me, it's just good. Yeah, it really is.

482
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:21,640
Speaker 1: The research is good.

483
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's strong, and I love how both him and

484
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:27,919
Speaker 2: Gene Twins like refute some of the stuff people were saying, Oh,

485
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 2: I know they're just exaggerating, but his figures and his data,

486
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:33,880
Speaker 2: and I love it that there was. You know, I've

487
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:35,640
Speaker 2: been concerned for a long time, and I think that's

488
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 2: the other reason that I wrote. The latest book helped

489
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 2: me help my team because we can't There are not

490
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,200
Speaker 2: enough people to help our kids at the moment. And

491
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:49,239
Speaker 2: I also think that our focus on mental health has

492
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 2: just maybe got a bit wrong, because I feel that

493
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,639
Speaker 2: we're not recognizing that our kids can have bad days.

494
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 2: They can be moody, they can be shitty, they can

495
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:08,919
Speaker 2: get angry, they can have tantrums, and there's absolutely nothing

496
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 2: mentally wrong with them because we're human. Whereas now I

497
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 2: think the pressure on parents I must keep them happy

498
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 2: all the time and don't let them feel uncomfortable, or

499
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:25,880
Speaker 2: I don't want them to deal with frustration. But actually,

500
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 2: we're human and it all happens. So that's been a

501
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 2: part of my mission in terms of Okay, let's focus

502
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:36,879
Speaker 2: on the fact that you have a teen or a

503
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 2: tween who's now have all these changes going on. Change

504
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 2: triggers stress in our nervous system, So they've got change happening.

505
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 2: They don't even know what the change is plus they've

506
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 2: got strange pubes growing and other things growing, and things

507
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:57,639
Speaker 2: behaving really badly. They are really confused. And what happens

508
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:00,679
Speaker 2: when we're usually confused is we get frightened something bad's

509
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 2: going to happen, because that's exactly why we're still alive.

510
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 2: And so when you get to understand that all of

511
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 2: that stuff is meant to be happening. So they usually

512
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:16,639
Speaker 2: growing up teens, save their biggest feelings and angst for

513
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 2: the safest human in their life, which is usually in

514
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 2: their home. So when I hear of mums copying all

515
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 2: this stuff and from sons and daughters, I keep going,

516
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 2: that's because they love you the most. It's a gift.

517
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:37,639
Speaker 2: It's a gift, and they may we really need to

518
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 2: worry when some of those behaviors that give you an

519
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 2: uncomfortable feeling yourself are lasting more than three weeks and

520
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 2: they're withdrawing their diets, changing their sleeps, changing, you can

521
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,479
Speaker 2: see something. You know, there's a whole bunch of things happening.

522
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 2: That's when we're going to give you some tips on

523
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 2: what you might do together with your team to see

524
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 2: is this just a moody dark patch Because it's towards

525
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 2: the end of the year, it's near exam time, it's winter,

526
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 2: right then, that's the whole aim of it. If we

527
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 2: can come alongside our teams when things are hard, and

528
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 2: instead of saying I want to fix it for you,

529
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 2: I'm going to walk beside you so you can work

530
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 2: a way through this hard stuff because as an adult

531
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 2: one day we're going to have those moments.

532
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 1: Just a moment away from Maggie to say that if

533
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 1: this podcast is useful for you, please tell someone, please

534
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 1: share it. Wortermouth is the best way that people can

535
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 1: find out about this show, so thank you for that.

536
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 1: In advance, I need to pay some bills though I'll

537
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 1: be back after the break. Nobody likes to say no

538
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 1: to the kid. You don't want them to be disappointed

539
00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 1: or sad, and yet dealing with frustrations really important thing,

540
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 1: and I'd rather it's probably better that you figure it

541
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 1: out when you're four and a half under five, When

542
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 1: you're fifteen and eighty five kilos and the same size

543
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,719
Speaker 1: as me, I'm a grown man, but with a very

544
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 1: not too dissimilar brain to the when you got now,

545
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 1: and the damage you could do physically is probably if I.

546
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 2: Begin ah, frustration tolerance, oh and boredom tolerance, all of

547
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 2: these sorts of things that we're really trying to avoid

548
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 2: because we want to be these super awesome parents. Isn't

549
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 2: it sad that we've kind of like made it an

550
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 2: impossible job because usually when you're doing those things, you're

551
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:39,959
Speaker 2: also over compensating for something else in that space. Can

552
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 2: I throw in one more thing that happens in the

553
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 2: teenage years that I think parents need to know, and

554
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 2: that is that their limbic brain, which is kind of

555
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 2: in the hippocami. You know down there, that central part

556
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 2: it's growing, right, that's with the amigda is that's your

557
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 2: threat center. So that's more fiery than usual. And in

558
00:30:58,080 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 2: boys it's way ler.

559
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 1: It's a really ancient ancient bit of the it's always.

560
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 2: Looking at something could be potentially dangerous.

561
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 1: Very little emotion, if any, invalid by that.

562
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 2: Right, it's spontaneous. It's the threat is this a threat

563
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 2: to my chance of survival? And then the second part

564
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 2: is in adolescence, all of the olympic brain fires up,

565
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 2: so everything gets more intense, and it gets really intense

566
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 2: without the prefrontal lobe growing enough to be able to

567
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 2: rationalize it. So that's why you can have massive outbursts.

568
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 2: And there's a lot of door slamming right And you know,

569
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 2: if you've got boys again, they'll kick stuff. Or I

570
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 2: had one boy come in to my English class and

571
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 2: ten minutes in just stood up and kicked the chair,

572
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 2: kicked the desk, and walked over to the wall and

573
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 2: punched his fist into a brick wall and then went

574
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 2: out the room. And all the kids are looking at me,

575
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 2: and I went, I don't know you no, They had

576
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 2: no idea anyway. I got him a drink of water

577
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 2: and sat next to him outside and I said what happened?

578
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 2: And he said, my mass tess. He used a few

579
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 2: f bombs in there, but I won't drop them out.

580
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 1: And I went, thank you for deciding to not swear,

581
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 1: considering how blue you were from the moment I met

582
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 1: you at my front door. I can have and for

583
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 1: a second, but you don't talk like a Steve It

584
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 1: or Dent.

585
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 3: I do.

586
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 2: But what happened was so he is brewed on his

587
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 2: failure twenty minutes. And I talk about the tipping point

588
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 2: in teens. You know, we've all got one, but we

589
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 2: have the capacity once that prefrontal growth, that we go, Man,

590
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 2: I'm really pissed off about this, or I'm really stressed.

591
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 2: I'm going to go and make myself a cup and

592
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 2: eat a few tim Dams, or you would probably go

593
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 2: and do some downward dogs and some deep breathing, which

594
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 2: is much okay. So we already have worked strategies of

595
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 2: what to do when our body's giving us those messages.

596
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 2: Teens haven't. So the last thing that flips them can

597
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 2: be sometimes really quite small, like misreading somebody's you know,

598
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 2: someone rolls.

599
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 1: Around famous, What you're looking at?

600
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, what you're looking at? That stuff right?

601
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 1: Famous?

602
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 2: It can be right. So you can imagine being shamed

603
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 2: by somebody or someone making a smart ass joke that

604
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 2: you don't get. You want to punch their head in. Right.

605
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 2: So for that beautiful boy, when we brought him back

606
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 2: in the class, and normally probably the school's expectations, what

607
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 2: I should have sent him to the deputy to be disciplined,

608
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 2: and in my world, I felt that's not going to

609
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 2: help anyone. When we got back in the class, all

610
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 2: his mates and the kids had put all his stuff

611
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 2: back up, and that's where I felt there was this

612
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 2: compassion for understanding. Yeah, I've been there.

613
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 1: Did he say anything to that?

614
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 2: He just no, he just nodded. Because that's another thing.

615
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 2: We know that the male brain, when it's really fired up,

616
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 2: it goes into the body, but it doesn't often come

617
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 2: up into the word center quite until a lot unless

618
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 2: movement is involved, whereas the female brain goes to there

619
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:08,360
Speaker 2: and out comes the word center right. And it's a

620
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 2: big challenge because a lot of mums want to have

621
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:13,719
Speaker 2: it out with their son right after something's happened. He's

622
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,239
Speaker 2: just no way he is capable of that. And the

623
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 2: more we poke the bear, the more likely they're going

624
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 2: to kick and you know, throw something. So I love

625
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:23,919
Speaker 2: it that there are some high schools sort of recognized

626
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,839
Speaker 2: that difference. So when a boy actually does get sent

627
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 2: down for you know, to be have some sort of

628
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 2: consequence for some choices made, they often there's deputies, particularly guys,

629
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 2: will walk them around the oval and talk to them.

630
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 2: So as the more movement you have, the more chance

631
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 2: the brain can come back up into the word center.

632
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:46,879
Speaker 2: The movement calms them down, grounds them into the earth,

633
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 2: and if there's spaces. I had this amazing story once

634
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,320
Speaker 2: this boy who I had in my year twelve class

635
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 2: big boy, and he was He said to me a

636
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 2: few times how angry he was his dad because his

637
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 2: dad was a detective. So he worked five days a week,

638
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 2: and then he took over another business and this boy

639
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 2: just lost his dad. He was there and he was

640
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 2: forever working and he was so pissed anyway, over time

641
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 2: that dad was really critical about the things he was

642
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 2: doing wrong, over and over. Everything I do wrong, everything

643
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:24,240
Speaker 2: I do wrong. Anyway. So it's now like two years

644
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,880
Speaker 2: after he's left the high school and for some weird reason,

645
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 2: he's called me on a land line. You know that

646
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 2: you can get the phone. I'm out of a phone book.

647
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 2: Some people might not know what that is anyway.

648
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 1: On them to drive sometimes, Yeah, that's it.

649
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 2: And he said to me, oh, missus zen, hey are you?

650
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 2: And I said good And he said, I just rang

651
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 2: up and say goodbye. And I said why where you go?

652
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,399
Speaker 2: And he said, oh, and I'm going away? So who

653
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 2: are you going to? No, it doesn't matter. I just

654
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:55,800
Speaker 2: wanted to ring up and say goodbye and say thanks

655
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 2: every single neuron and my body is fired up. And

656
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 2: you're not gone anywhere without giving me a hug, not

657
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 2: that I've ever been. You know, I haven't seen him

658
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 2: for two years. No, No, it's all good. I just

659
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 2: I just wanted to ring and say good bunny. Hung up.

660
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,800
Speaker 2: Now I've raced out. I remember actually having no bra on.

661
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 2: I was at home. Fortunately the dad was homebook after

662
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:19,920
Speaker 2: the boys. I've jumped in the bus and because we

663
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:21,839
Speaker 2: had a bus, we had so many children, and I'm

664
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,359
Speaker 2: roaring off. I mean, fuel gauge was low, and I'm

665
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 2: going no, I've got to get there because of course

666
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 2: country people, we know where they lived. And I've got

667
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 2: there and I've raced in and he's curled up and

668
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 2: he's got three different means of ending his life.

669
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:33,439
Speaker 4: Oh boy.

670
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:37,279
Speaker 2: So I've wrapped myself around him from behind and just

671
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 2: held on to him. So he just sobbed and sobbed

672
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,919
Speaker 2: and sobbed and sobbed, and then and then he said,

673
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 2: I just can't live like this. I'm never going to

674
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 2: be good enough for my dad. And I said, do

675
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,799
Speaker 2: you know what you okay? If I call your dad,

676
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 2: I want you to walk around out there and I

677
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:55,880
Speaker 2: want you to tell him how hard this is for you.

678
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 2: And he says, no, I can't do it. I said, yes,

679
00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 2: you can do it, because I'm going to be right here. Anyway,

680
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 2: I called it, and both mom and dad came. They

681
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:08,359
Speaker 2: had no idea what was going on. And I said

682
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 2: to Mum, you're staying with me. Those two are gone

683
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:12,799
Speaker 2: for a walk. Gave my hug, and they went out

684
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:15,279
Speaker 2: in the cow paddy and we watched them, and every

685
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:17,240
Speaker 2: now and then there was just walking and nothing happened.

686
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 2: Then there were arms flying out and there were shouting,

687
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:21,879
Speaker 2: and then there was more walking, and there's more walking.

688
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 2: There was more shouting and more young and their arms up,

689
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:26,320
Speaker 2: and then you go and think, oh, man, if I

690
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 2: made the worst mistake in the world here right now,

691
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 2: big space walking, nothing else that up came another lot

692
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 2: of stuff. Anyway, I was about forty minutes later and

693
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,320
Speaker 2: I've looked out and they're in each other's arms and

694
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:43,920
Speaker 2: they're both sobbing. And that's when I sort of realized

695
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 2: that sometimes through the lens of young men, if they

696
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 2: can get to that point that they're inner shame at

697
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 2: who they are because they can't please a parent, or

698
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:02,840
Speaker 2: they've let parent down, or they think the parent can't

699
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,839
Speaker 2: love them, they often get to that point where they

700
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 2: say everyone's going to be better off without me. And

701
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:15,279
Speaker 2: when they came back in, it was, oh, it was big.

702
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 2: But what was beautiful was Mum didn't actually need to

703
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 2: say a thing, which is what we often think, Mum's

704
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:23,880
Speaker 2: going to sort it out and get everyone to know.

705
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 2: But it was handled in a male way, one layer

706
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 2: at a time in a cow paddic, you know, where

707
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 2: there were new weapons either, and that's the other part

708
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 2: to it, you know, like they're not going to hurt

709
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 2: each other if you're just gonna And I think the

710
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:47,360
Speaker 2: number of times that a teen boy has shared with

711
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 2: me how close they got to ending their life over

712
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 2: things that were way too small from my logical rational place. Yeah,

713
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 2: and one of them was a fourteen year boy solo

714
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:07,279
Speaker 2: mum and his report card wasn't good and she was

715
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 2: really angry at him because she really wanted the best

716
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 2: for him and he had slapped off. Boys do that.

717
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 2: I can't see any point. I've got it covered, just

718
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 2: have to past just this much. And he fortunately came

719
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:22,879
Speaker 2: and saw me, but he said, I think I can't

720
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,839
Speaker 2: live without my mum's love. So she's withdrawn. Women freeze out,

721
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 2: never freeze out her a teenage boy because he just

722
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:36,360
Speaker 2: said if she can't love me, I can't live fourteen

723
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 2: years of age. So there's this fundamental sensitivity usha under

724
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 2: these bravado of the teenage male sometimes that we can miss,

725
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 2: and I think it's you know, it's driven.

726
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 1: A lot of my work and of course of the

727
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 1: time that you've been doing this though, if there's you

728
00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:59,880
Speaker 1: mentioned the evolutionary things, which I think I like it

729
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 1: as a way to come back to because it's a

730
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 1: fundamental reason to Yes, we talk about bits of the body,

731
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:07,360
Speaker 1: we talk about hormones, we talk about parts of the

732
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 1: brain and why they work together. It might sound like

733
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:11,719
Speaker 1: these big names, but you're going to want to know

734
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:14,399
Speaker 1: your battery flat because your old nator's busted. That's why.

735
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 1: That's why you come, and we love that. You know,

736
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:20,719
Speaker 1: it's important to know that, all right. You don't need

737
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 1: to know how the old native works, just know that

738
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 1: it's there. And both things have to work. So similarly,

739
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:31,320
Speaker 1: there's evolutionary things that you've already talked about the boys

740
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 1: distincting themselves from the parents' girls speaking with other girls,

741
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 1: but there's also evolutionary things and how both those people

742
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:42,399
Speaker 1: learn in those situations. For example, it's the girls will

743
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 1: kind of compare and model off the women right in

744
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 1: front of them. The boys will seek out a similarly

745
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 1: aged not their dad, mentor figure to model on which

746
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 1: isn't their own dad. Both these things have got really

747
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 1: beautiful and evolutionary reasons they successful. Rightly, However, you put

748
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:07,240
Speaker 1: a fucking phone in someone's hand and the only pictures

749
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 1: the girl is looking at is of girl skinnier than

750
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:12,839
Speaker 1: her totally, or the only thing the boys looking at

751
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:15,759
Speaker 1: is like, look at my fucking fat car, Look at

752
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:18,240
Speaker 1: all my bitcoin I got up at five this morning.

753
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:22,320
Speaker 1: How come you're not ripped the money that's being made

754
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:26,320
Speaker 1: of these children's misery. It's reprehensible.

755
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 2: I had to keep putting that book down because it's

756
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:33,239
Speaker 2: not the first time that i've I mean, you know,

757
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 2: there was a documentary a couple of years ago that

758
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 2: we were very clearly showing that tech companies deliberately design

759
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:45,360
Speaker 2: algorithms to make sure our kids are marinated in negative

760
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 2: content because that means they stay engaged more, and therefore

761
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:52,840
Speaker 2: more advertisements are seen, so the tech companies make more money.

762
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 2: And then you know, there's that beautiful story. I don't

763
00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 2: know if you're up to that point in the book

764
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 2: were about that. I think she's a four and you're

765
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 2: a girl who've actually got Instagram. And she was so

766
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:05,279
Speaker 2: damn excited. And the first two weeks was like every dream.

767
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 2: She's able to chat to a friend, she's able to

768
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 2: see fabulous fun stuff. She was in absolute heaven. And

769
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 2: then and then the algorithms kick in and she's articulated

770
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 2: later on it's just a trap. Parents aren't having those

771
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:24,759
Speaker 2: conversations about how to be appropriate, you know, to be

772
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 2: sexually intimate in a way that's respectful. They think they

773
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:31,799
Speaker 2: know it all because they've been watching porn or even

774
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 2: a boy said to me once, I said, mate, if

775
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:35,800
Speaker 2: you've got your dad teaching you how to do stuff

776
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 2: with the car or something, and he says, nay, don't

777
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:40,759
Speaker 2: need to do that, And I said why so this

778
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 2: is YouTube? I said, what if you lost your phone

779
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 2: mate or what if it's flat? And you went, oh shit,

780
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 2: never thought of that. So the life schools that we

781
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:52,279
Speaker 2: knew we had to fundamentally put in place, they think

782
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:55,279
Speaker 2: they already get it, and for many of them they do.

783
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:59,560
Speaker 2: And then there's that one other layer in all traditional

784
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 2: kinship communities is that as they individuate from their parents.

785
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 2: There is always someone there and it was a collection

786
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 2: of not just one lighthouse. It was men took over.

787
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:12,279
Speaker 2: It was a responsibility to all the mean women took over.

788
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 2: So we have got so many of our teams who've

789
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 2: pushed away from parents as they're meant to, who have

790
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 2: nothing else supporting their growth and development other than a

791
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 2: toxic space that's messing with their head and the lighthouses

792
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:32,879
Speaker 2: that are around. You know they're still there, but it's

793
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:35,919
Speaker 2: so much harder for them to take up that role

794
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 2: that we know you need to gradually grow a child

795
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 2: into the adult space. Which is why I think, you know,

796
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:49,839
Speaker 2: the Rights of Passage work has been fundamentally like it's

797
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 2: such a powerful journey. And I've just recently been working

798
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 2: with an amazing organization that has created lighthouses for our

799
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 2: nations boys across Australia in the Klonti Foundation. And that's

800
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 2: why this organization creates good men who guide these boys

801
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:14,959
Speaker 2: through a love of football right the way through until

802
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:18,560
Speaker 2: they're employed. Oh man, that makes my heart sing because

803
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:21,960
Speaker 2: that if you don't have the guide, and it doesn't

804
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 2: have to be a man. You know, I've got a

805
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 2: lot of young lads in that journey. If you don't

806
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:29,440
Speaker 2: have the lighthouse, you're going to get crashed on the rocks,

807
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 2: and there's a chance you're not going to be able

808
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:36,719
Speaker 2: to make the choices that lead you towards creating a

809
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:41,360
Speaker 2: life that is sustainable and has meaning and that you

810
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 2: can find joy and Welcome to our modern crappy world.

811
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:52,240
Speaker 1: Is Yeah, the more it's crappy, but it's getting less crappy.

812
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:54,279
Speaker 1: You know. Every time we find something that make it

813
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 1: less crappy. There's benefits and side effects everything we do

814
00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:57,680
Speaker 1: have to kind of unpack.

815
00:44:57,440 --> 00:44:59,360
Speaker 2: It a bit, let's put it out there. There are

816
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:01,880
Speaker 2: so many other benefits when if we didn't have the

817
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:06,400
Speaker 2: negative algorithms, so much less harm would happen because there

818
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 2: are so many things that meet our teens psychological needs online.

819
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 2: It's not just social media, it's not just gaming. It's

820
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:15,840
Speaker 2: oh man, there's so much art. There's so many creative

821
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:19,120
Speaker 2: and also there are so many spaces to get support.

822
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:23,439
Speaker 2: And it's brilliant for our neurodiversent kids because it's often

823
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:26,839
Speaker 2: the way they do regulate, but they also find other

824
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:30,719
Speaker 2: people who are quirky like them. So I just want

825
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:32,719
Speaker 2: to get rid of the harm and I know that

826
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:36,239
Speaker 2: we can do it. But my challenge, I think is

827
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 2: we need to make parents really angry, which is why

828
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:40,839
Speaker 2: I'm a part of the let's ban it to thirty

829
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 2: six even though we know damn near impossible to do. Plus,

830
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 2: teenagers are too smart and everything will go underground. If

831
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:51,560
Speaker 2: we get parents angry and we make teenagers outrage that

832
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:55,280
Speaker 2: they're just being used for profits a bit like vaping,

833
00:45:56,680 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 2: I reckon we might scare the tech companies into thinking, heck,

834
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:03,839
Speaker 2: they banned it to sixteen, We're gonna lose a lot

835
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 2: of money. Let's just tweak the algorithm so we can

836
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 2: keep them. That would save lives.

837
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 1: I asked a kid the other day. Kid couldn't look

838
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:16,319
Speaker 1: up for his phone, and I said, he's thirteen. I said,

839
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:19,719
Speaker 1: did you have a smoke? Oh? No, I said, would

840
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:20,239
Speaker 1: you have a vape?

841
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 3: Nah?

842
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 1: Nah said that thing in your hand is designed so

843
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:27,799
Speaker 1: you can't put it down, even though you think you can,

844
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:30,359
Speaker 1: you can't. I told them I'm fifty. I have an

845
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:31,759
Speaker 1: app on my I need it for work, but I

846
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 1: have an app on my phone that won't let me

847
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 1: open it, and I've got self control.

848
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 2: And I think also that the other bit that can

849
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 2: really help parents understand why it's so problematic. You know

850
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:47,239
Speaker 2: how we're talking about the brain pruning accidentally prunes off

851
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:49,839
Speaker 2: things that mean they get more forgetful and more disorganized.

852
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 2: So in that window, that's the window most teens will

853
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:56,680
Speaker 2: go through self loathing and self hatered. Right, you know,

854
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:58,839
Speaker 2: they're not ripped enough and the girls aren't in enough,

855
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:03,120
Speaker 2: and I mean body dissatisfaction happened for me and I

856
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:05,359
Speaker 2: didn't have a TV on the farm, and I didn't

857
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:08,719
Speaker 2: read magazines. It's a normal stage of development. Now it's

858
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:12,200
Speaker 2: kind of like amped up. But in that same window,

859
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:15,359
Speaker 2: the brain not only prunes off the stuff you're not using,

860
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:19,279
Speaker 2: it quadruples and goes crazy on how many dendrides it makes.

861
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 2: And what that means is you have a window there

862
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 2: where you can learn far faster than any time before five.

863
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:28,919
Speaker 2: So you can pick up a musical instrument. I remember

864
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 2: Missy Higgins picked one up at fourteen. You can learn

865
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 2: a language if you're into sport and you throw yourself

866
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:38,960
Speaker 2: into it. In that window, you improve drastically. Add that

867
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:42,319
Speaker 2: into the mix of all those other bits. But your

868
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:46,920
Speaker 2: chances of get addicted in the window of like twelve

869
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 2: to fifteen is so much higher and they know that,

870
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:53,799
Speaker 2: which is the other reason we're talking sixteen. And it's

871
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:55,400
Speaker 2: the same with my boys and alcohol. I'm going to

872
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 2: make it as hard as possible for you to get

873
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:01,279
Speaker 2: anywhere near enough that I don't pay you any money. Right,

874
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:03,919
Speaker 2: I'm a terrible mother, but there was a reason because

875
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:05,799
Speaker 2: I said, at sixteen, your brain's going to be better.

876
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 2: I hated hearing it, but we need to know. So

877
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:13,320
Speaker 2: even though it's this window of potential threat, whether it's gaming,

878
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:17,160
Speaker 2: it's social media, or it's porn watching, it's god knows what,

879
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:21,760
Speaker 2: it has a potential for greatness in the same window.

880
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:24,799
Speaker 2: And when parents realize that, I think that can make

881
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 2: that a different thing. And I also think if you

882
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:30,520
Speaker 2: come alongside your team and say, look, I just want

883
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 2: you to make sure you can use your phone for

884
00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:37,319
Speaker 2: whatever brings you joy. But in our home, we're going

885
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:40,719
Speaker 2: to the less time at night, the better, and the

886
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:42,600
Speaker 2: more sleep you get the better. If you start with

887
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 2: those two things work out a way that there's no

888
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:48,080
Speaker 2: Wi Fi in the house after ten, so if you

889
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:50,120
Speaker 2: need to connect with your friends who do it before then,

890
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:53,040
Speaker 2: but there's none for us either, So we're not going

891
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:56,719
Speaker 2: to be in our bedrooms, disconnecting from the family as well.

892
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 2: But also we make our worst decisions at night, especially

893
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:04,880
Speaker 2: the teenage brain that what little proof until they have

894
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:09,080
Speaker 2: goes to sleep. So the worst trolling, the worst stuff

895
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:11,920
Speaker 2: out there that hurts others happens at night. So if

896
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:15,359
Speaker 2: we just put that one up and then nobody can

897
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 2: get back online till seven next morning, you'll notice a

898
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:21,880
Speaker 2: significant shift in the well being of our teens. The

899
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:24,080
Speaker 2: Queen of common sense.

900
00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:29,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, the conversation the thing about kids or teens

901
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 1: or whatever. We often don't want our kid or team

902
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:35,040
Speaker 1: to be the victim. We never really want to entertain

903
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:37,600
Speaker 1: that our kid might be the purpse. We never want

904
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:39,920
Speaker 1: to entertain that our son might be the one, or

905
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:42,239
Speaker 1: our daughter might be the one that boy's the other

906
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:45,160
Speaker 1: one until she does something horrible. Our son might be

907
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:47,759
Speaker 1: the one that hits a boy so hard. Yeah, but

908
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:50,279
Speaker 1: that is a reality we have to be with.

909
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:54,560
Speaker 2: And I think not only that some of the teens

910
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:56,320
Speaker 2: I've spoken to about when they get into some of

911
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:59,120
Speaker 2: these streaks, these things where it's something sort of yeah,

912
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:02,040
Speaker 2: you can't miss the streak, or else there's a chance

913
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:03,759
Speaker 2: that you'll get kicked out of the group, right, You've

914
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:04,360
Speaker 2: got to keep in it.

915
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:06,840
Speaker 1: So sometimes that app Okay, so you're talking about one

916
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:08,480
Speaker 1: of the apps. I think it's Snapchat. You've got to

917
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 1: be You've got to.

918
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:10,719
Speaker 2: Keep in that every day.

919
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:11,040
Speaker 1: Yes.

920
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:15,640
Speaker 2: And also so if some of them start bad mouthing

921
00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:19,920
Speaker 2: another person, for it's just like those boys again around

922
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 2: I'm going to do something dumb in the classroom to

923
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:24,839
Speaker 2: make you all laugh. And that is the power. They

924
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 2: do not have a prefrontal it says, my gosh, this

925
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:31,239
Speaker 2: could be potentially harmful for that other person's psychological well being.

926
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:35,440
Speaker 2: What is more risky is being turfed out of the group.

927
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:38,800
Speaker 2: And I think we really have to hold that in

928
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:41,719
Speaker 2: that space right around that and you can say to

929
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:43,960
Speaker 2: your son or daughter, Nay, that's not how that's not

930
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:46,200
Speaker 2: the person that I want you to be. That's not

931
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 2: our values. But in the impulse, in the moment, damn.

932
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:52,839
Speaker 2: And that's why one of the saddest stats out there,

933
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 2: and I think it's we've known it for a while,

934
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:59,160
Speaker 2: but about ninety three percent of the victims of sextortion

935
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:02,960
Speaker 2: or our boys fourteen to seventeen. And if you could

936
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:05,960
Speaker 2: just put yourself in the in the body of a

937
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:09,000
Speaker 2: fourteen year old boy who has just got some great

938
00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:12,000
Speaker 2: messages from a girl who seems really keen on him.

939
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:17,240
Speaker 2: And as the flirting continues, then she's sent some photos

940
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:20,440
Speaker 2: of her intimate parts and he's getting really pretty stoked.

941
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:22,840
Speaker 2: She's really keen on me, and he does send his

942
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:28,239
Speaker 2: dick pic and you know, within seconds, you know, they

943
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:33,320
Speaker 2: ask for money, and there is just horrendous amount of

944
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:38,600
Speaker 2: shame in that space because either way, if they pay

945
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:41,960
Speaker 2: the money they're going to keep, you can't catch them.

946
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:44,839
Speaker 2: It's a crime. It's just a nightmare. But they are

947
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:47,440
Speaker 2: showing this and they just go to everybody, and that

948
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:52,080
Speaker 2: public shaming has pushed boys to die because I can't

949
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:55,640
Speaker 2: live with it. And it started in a completely innocent

950
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:58,279
Speaker 2: kind of way. So we don't even know who the hell.

951
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:01,960
Speaker 2: They can go and do that cyber safety lessons in class,

952
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:05,279
Speaker 2: but in that moment, I think this girl really likes

953
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:08,800
Speaker 2: me you and I like, I could put myself in

954
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:12,919
Speaker 2: that situation. I get that, and yet that can ruin

955
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 2: a life.

956
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:15,759
Speaker 1: You mentioned they can do the cyber safety but being

957
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:19,799
Speaker 1: aware of hot and cold decisions about making a choice

958
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:21,799
Speaker 1: in a cold state and rehearsing in a cold state.

959
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:23,520
Speaker 1: I was telling you before we started rolling about me

960
00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:26,839
Speaker 1: rehearsing in a cold state. What can and if it's

961
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:29,000
Speaker 1: the first time people might have heard of this idea,

962
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:31,719
Speaker 1: what can people talk to their kids about with these

963
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:32,239
Speaker 1: sorts of things?

964
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:35,320
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, because inside every single team is

965
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:40,040
Speaker 2: still a wise voice and they can't hear all the

966
00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:42,279
Speaker 2: chatter in the head. That's the ego mind. It's just

967
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:44,080
Speaker 2: gone like a crazy monkey.

968
00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:44,359
Speaker 3: Right.

969
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 2: So, anytime there's a big challenge you want, you want

970
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:51,320
Speaker 2: them to give some more thought to something, you do

971
00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:55,319
Speaker 2: exactly that. You say, Look, you know what, particularly our

972
00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:57,800
Speaker 2: boys who need more time to come and want you

973
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:00,239
Speaker 2: to Yeah, you want to drop all your subjects, just

974
00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:02,960
Speaker 2: want to leave school, right, Okay, So rather than go

975
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:06,920
Speaker 2: crazy in that moment, we go okay, so all right,

976
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:08,919
Speaker 2: so how about your sleep on it and tomorrow we'll

977
00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:12,520
Speaker 2: have another big chat about it. Right. So often when

978
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:14,680
Speaker 2: I noticed when it was you know, in the sleep,

979
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:17,359
Speaker 2: it's like the highest self comes a little bit up

980
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:21,719
Speaker 2: and sows a few seeds of doubt, and that can

981
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:24,480
Speaker 2: make a huge difference, because what we want them to

982
00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 2: do is to hear that quiet voice that says, I

983
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:30,920
Speaker 2: don't know, I think I might be overreacting or let

984
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:34,360
Speaker 2: me pause for a minute here, And I've seen it

985
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:37,320
Speaker 2: so many times with big decisions. I make sure the

986
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:39,080
Speaker 2: team comes back and we're going to work through it.

987
00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:40,880
Speaker 2: By the time they come back to work through it,

988
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:44,640
Speaker 2: they're shifted their space now. The reason that they already

989
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:47,480
Speaker 2: shift it is because it's coming from inside them. But

990
00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:52,360
Speaker 2: also the adult hasn't told them what to do. We

991
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:56,880
Speaker 2: are biologically wired from the time we're born to push

992
00:53:57,000 --> 00:54:01,800
Speaker 2: back when we're told what to do. Toddlers, you know,

993
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:07,759
Speaker 2: fierce falls twins, all of us. So I think it's

994
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:11,360
Speaker 2: how can we come alongside and not tell them what

995
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:15,239
Speaker 2: to do and allow them to explore plan A, plan

996
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:20,600
Speaker 2: B options. You are then cultivating a thinking process they

997
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:23,680
Speaker 2: take forward into ad all to it. I know it

998
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:26,880
Speaker 2: sounds completely crazy because when people sent their kids to me,

999
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:31,279
Speaker 2: you know, I fix that kid. He's just awful, and

1000
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:35,120
Speaker 2: I'd sit down and I'd go, mate, this is however

1001
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 2: things are going right now. I talk about having a map,

1002
00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:40,759
Speaker 2: the map you use and it's not working. So we're

1003
00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:43,200
Speaker 2: going to help you work another map that gets you

1004
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:45,000
Speaker 2: a bit closer to where you want to be. Right

1005
00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:48,960
Speaker 2: because you're not bad, you're not stupid, You're a bit lost.

1006
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:53,600
Speaker 2: And that mataphor lands so often in a teen who's

1007
00:54:53,800 --> 00:55:00,040
Speaker 2: making really poor choices academically, socially, or even out in

1008
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:02,600
Speaker 2: the space that we don't want them to do crimes

1009
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:04,960
Speaker 2: and things. Somebody needs to go hey, there's a different

1010
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:09,800
Speaker 2: way of going forward. But once again, if they're telling themselves,

1011
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:13,920
Speaker 2: no one cares, I'm stupid anyway. I used to hear

1012
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:17,760
Speaker 2: that so often from boys because I was the English

1013
00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:19,879
Speaker 2: teacher and it was only a tiny percentage of boys

1014
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:23,480
Speaker 2: who really loved English. Hey, miss, we do this belong

1015
00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:26,360
Speaker 2: and they played football for Australia. I say, yeah, you

1016
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:27,960
Speaker 2: may do, but I still have to teach how to

1017
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:32,440
Speaker 2: write a structured essay or an argument right, because it's

1018
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:33,160
Speaker 2: not what I want.

1019
00:55:33,320 --> 00:55:33,480
Speaker 4: Right.

1020
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:37,880
Speaker 2: We just need to give them the information that helps

1021
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:41,480
Speaker 2: them see that whatever that is in front through their

1022
00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:46,160
Speaker 2: lens rather than just our growing up lens. That's the

1023
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:49,080
Speaker 2: hardest thing I think parenting teams, because we actually know

1024
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:51,520
Speaker 2: we've already made the same mistake. We don't want them

1025
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:52,600
Speaker 2: to make the mistake we did.

1026
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:55,879
Speaker 1: That was a big challenge I faced when Gie would

1027
00:55:55,880 --> 00:55:59,480
Speaker 1: be heading off to parties as a teenager. What's to

1028
00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:03,160
Speaker 1: mew but fifteen sixty whatever? And she got a party

1029
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:06,839
Speaker 1: the parents home. No, it's gonna be alcohol there, yes,

1030
00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:11,960
Speaker 1: And then like she's not you, she's not you, keep

1031
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:16,120
Speaker 1: her space And it was really hard, but I think,

1032
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:18,440
Speaker 1: you know, I'm glad I just followed Audrey's leave.

1033
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:23,399
Speaker 2: One thing really helps in the party scenes is rather

1034
00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:27,560
Speaker 2: than doing the lecture, don't do touch alcohol, don't touch drugs,

1035
00:56:27,719 --> 00:56:30,120
Speaker 2: don't do what happens when I say don't think of

1036
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:31,719
Speaker 2: a blue elephant? Right?

1037
00:56:31,920 --> 00:56:32,120
Speaker 3: Blue?

1038
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:33,720
Speaker 1: And it's on a tight rape, right, it's.

1039
00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:37,000
Speaker 2: Not good right with a bikini. So my suggestion is

1040
00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:39,640
Speaker 2: to you, Okay, you're going to a party, what would

1041
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:42,680
Speaker 2: you do if someone passed out and it could be

1042
00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:47,799
Speaker 2: an alcoholic coma right recovery position, call ambient straight away,

1043
00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:51,520
Speaker 2: no question. Okay, what would you do with some gate crashes? Aright?

1044
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:54,520
Speaker 2: What are your plans there? You know, because some of

1045
00:56:54,560 --> 00:56:57,520
Speaker 2: our teams have already got an idea and they're actually

1046
00:56:57,880 --> 00:57:00,600
Speaker 2: a bit more savvy than we think. But every now

1047
00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:02,360
Speaker 2: and then, when you go that way, you might be

1048
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:05,279
Speaker 2: able to add one more suggestion that they will then

1049
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:07,960
Speaker 2: take on board, because it's not the same as you're

1050
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:11,600
Speaker 2: telling them what to do, so this also might be helpful. Now,

1051
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:14,320
Speaker 2: I did that for years when I was still working

1052
00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:17,040
Speaker 2: with teens, and I've had emails over the years of

1053
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:20,520
Speaker 2: teens have said, just wanted to let you know that

1054
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:23,600
Speaker 2: you know that bit about the alcoholic coma that I

1055
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:25,680
Speaker 2: spotted it. And I've been at a party at a

1056
00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:28,320
Speaker 2: UNI and I flipped the ked over into the recovery

1057
00:57:28,360 --> 00:57:31,560
Speaker 2: position and rang the ambos and the paramedic called out,

1058
00:57:31,600 --> 00:57:34,840
Speaker 2: who's called us? And the guy put his hand up

1059
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:36,800
Speaker 2: and said me. He says, mate, he had two minutes.

1060
00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:40,760
Speaker 2: You've saved this kid's life. So I think we need

1061
00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:45,160
Speaker 2: to give them the power, yeah, to be you know,

1062
00:57:45,520 --> 00:57:48,320
Speaker 2: the fixer, the one that saves staff, the one that

1063
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:51,280
Speaker 2: goes man. I'm just not feeling comfortable about this. When

1064
00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:54,560
Speaker 2: someone takes the keys off someone you can call them

1065
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:59,440
Speaker 2: to be what I call a secret guardian. Because teens

1066
00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:05,200
Speaker 2: are wired to worry about their friends but not themselves.

1067
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:09,760
Speaker 2: They'll do anything for their friends. They just don't think

1068
00:58:10,440 --> 00:58:13,880
Speaker 2: that they matter really, And that's why you know, on

1069
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:16,240
Speaker 2: the way home, make sure you're getting home safely because

1070
00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:18,480
Speaker 2: a lot of the worst stuff happens on the way home.

1071
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:21,920
Speaker 2: Never let someone go off by themselves, like just we

1072
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:25,240
Speaker 2: turn up and watch out for our friends. But those

1073
00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:31,160
Speaker 2: are the strategies you're empowering them to do, stepping forward

1074
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:35,240
Speaker 2: toward the adult you want them to be because you

1075
00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:36,360
Speaker 2: want them to leave home.

1076
00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:38,840
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and you want them to be fine. It's no,

1077
00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:41,000
Speaker 1: it doesn't really strike me as any much different as

1078
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:44,640
Speaker 1: a work side induction where you watch the video that

1079
00:58:44,720 --> 00:58:47,000
Speaker 1: says when you pick up the box of printer paper,

1080
00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:49,360
Speaker 1: bend you knees and you have to wait for it,

1081
00:58:49,480 --> 00:58:51,280
Speaker 1: and you can't force for its fast forward through it.

1082
00:58:51,600 --> 00:58:54,440
Speaker 1: You've got to click. Yes, I've read it as simile

1083
00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:57,000
Speaker 1: as that. And then when it comes to picking up

1084
00:58:57,000 --> 00:58:58,920
Speaker 1: the box of print paper, even if you've never done

1085
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:01,920
Speaker 1: it before, you're like, your brain goes to do and

1086
00:59:02,280 --> 00:59:04,720
Speaker 1: that's the thing that will fly and you know we've

1087
00:59:06,240 --> 00:59:06,760
Speaker 1: I don't want to go.

1088
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:08,680
Speaker 2: Just don't work.

1089
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:11,800
Speaker 1: Just practice practice, just practice what it's going to be right,

1090
00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:15,320
Speaker 1: Just practice saying no thanks, I'm fine. Just practicing no thanks,

1091
00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:18,600
Speaker 1: I'm fine. Let me hear say it out loud, no thanks,

1092
00:59:18,600 --> 00:59:21,000
Speaker 1: I'm fine. And then I want to ask you again,

1093
00:59:21,040 --> 00:59:23,480
Speaker 1: I'll take you there, it's fine. And then at least

1094
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:27,440
Speaker 1: you know that in their brain they have this because

1095
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:29,680
Speaker 1: you in that moment there's going to be its height,

1096
00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:32,600
Speaker 1: there'll be a flood. I'll go straight to the reactionary thing,

1097
00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:34,880
Speaker 1: and thankfully our brains will go, here's what you do.

1098
00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:37,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, the more automatic. And then I think

1099
00:59:37,960 --> 00:59:41,600
Speaker 2: one other one of the really big message for parents

1100
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:44,720
Speaker 2: is as you're raising your team through these bumpy journeys,

1101
00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:47,080
Speaker 2: they're going to make big mistakes. All of them are

1102
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:50,919
Speaker 2: a question. Trust me, We've had many stitches and things

1103
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:52,680
Speaker 2: that we've had to deal with over the years and

1104
00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:55,720
Speaker 2: form it in my car. What I want you to

1105
00:59:55,840 --> 00:59:57,920
Speaker 2: keep on reminding them is there's nothing they can ever

1106
00:59:58,040 --> 01:00:01,040
Speaker 2: do that means you know, we're not going to turn

1107
01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:03,920
Speaker 2: up and still love you, so that when you know

1108
01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:07,280
Speaker 2: they crush your car or actually I did have that experience.

1109
01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:09,919
Speaker 2: I was racing boys and a paddock one day after

1110
01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:11,720
Speaker 2: a netball game because I was always hanging out with

1111
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:15,280
Speaker 2: the boys, and flipped the car. It rolled over, I

1112
01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:17,120
Speaker 2: got thrown out and it came back and crushed my

1113
01:00:17,200 --> 01:00:19,640
Speaker 2: foot and they had to ring my dad. You know what,

1114
01:00:20,400 --> 01:00:22,520
Speaker 2: for years later, I've thought there was no question I

1115
01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:25,680
Speaker 2: was ringing my dad. That's what you want to raise

1116
01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 2: your team to say, no matter what crap happens, no

1117
01:00:28,760 --> 01:00:32,080
Speaker 2: matter how bad it is, you want to be able

1118
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:34,560
Speaker 2: to your first reactions. I'm calling my dad, I'm calling

1119
01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:38,400
Speaker 2: my mom, I'm calling my folks rather than for God's sake,

1120
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:42,000
Speaker 2: don't tell my parents. That means you get the gold star.

1121
01:00:42,480 --> 01:00:45,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that has to be. We'll figure everything else out. Yeah,

1122
01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:48,240
Speaker 1: you'll figure everything else out, but just you. We can't

1123
01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:50,320
Speaker 1: get another U. We'll fix everything else.

1124
01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:52,960
Speaker 2: It'll be together, we will fix it.

1125
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:59,360
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, I see what you did. That there's I

1126
01:00:59,400 --> 01:01:01,760
Speaker 1: don't want to Okay, I'll ask you this because it

1127
01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:05,560
Speaker 1: is you know, I did touch on it before. Our

1128
01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:10,000
Speaker 1: newsers filled with men do better. Men, you should do better.

1129
01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:21,960
Speaker 1: And a woman dies every week in Australia. But the

1130
01:01:22,080 --> 01:01:26,080
Speaker 1: rates of male on male homicide is double that the rate.

1131
01:01:26,680 --> 01:01:29,280
Speaker 1: The likelihood that I will be a victim of male

1132
01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:32,600
Speaker 1: on male violence is higher than yours since the age

1133
01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:35,520
Speaker 1: of fourteen. Walking out of the house, if I see

1134
01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:38,000
Speaker 1: a group of men walking down the street, make myself more,

1135
01:01:38,040 --> 01:01:41,320
Speaker 1: don't become a target. Look down, don't like I'm just

1136
01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:45,600
Speaker 1: as worried about male violence and I'm terrified. Mostly I'm

1137
01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:49,880
Speaker 1: saying this because my son's five five, He's about to

1138
01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:53,040
Speaker 1: go on a big school and I'm fucking terrified. Man,

1139
01:01:53,320 --> 01:01:55,960
Speaker 1: I'm terrified that he'll be victim. I'm terrified I'll be

1140
01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:59,480
Speaker 1: a perpetrator. I am, at the same time as worried

1141
01:01:59,480 --> 01:02:02,400
Speaker 1: about my life from my step daughter. Don't question that

1142
01:02:02,560 --> 01:02:06,400
Speaker 1: at all. But I've been a young man is dangerous

1143
01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:10,160
Speaker 1: as shit. Your likelihood of getting really, really really heard

1144
01:02:11,600 --> 01:02:15,960
Speaker 1: is huge, and I don't want violence from men at all.

1145
01:02:17,680 --> 01:02:19,360
Speaker 2: Let me start with the first thing, and that no

1146
01:02:19,560 --> 01:02:23,400
Speaker 2: boy is born violent. Being violent is a learned behavior.

1147
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:26,560
Speaker 2: We also know that people have a higher chance of

1148
01:02:26,680 --> 01:02:30,520
Speaker 2: hurting others. So essentially, everything that I do in the

1149
01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:33,920
Speaker 2: parenting space that owns the fact that there is an

1150
01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:36,560
Speaker 2: incredible capacity for our dads to We tend to loving

1151
01:02:36,680 --> 01:02:39,680
Speaker 2: fathers and we're seeing it happen, so there is a

1152
01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:44,160
Speaker 2: plus in that direction. Secondly, we absolutely have to help

1153
01:02:44,240 --> 01:02:47,840
Speaker 2: our little boys to be able to navigate the emotional

1154
01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:52,680
Speaker 2: world better than they are. We also know that you know,

1155
01:02:52,800 --> 01:02:57,960
Speaker 2: physicality is you know physical connection. One of the key

1156
01:02:58,000 --> 01:03:02,920
Speaker 2: things about our boy and the way they connect with

1157
01:03:03,200 --> 01:03:06,480
Speaker 2: other boys when they're little boys is. It is not

1158
01:03:06,680 --> 01:03:09,200
Speaker 2: through Oh, Gollie, I think you're a really cool dude.

1159
01:03:09,320 --> 01:03:10,720
Speaker 2: You want to come over to my house for it,

1160
01:03:10,840 --> 01:03:13,439
Speaker 2: But no, they don't. It will be through a punch

1161
01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:15,120
Speaker 2: on the arm or I'm going to wrestle you. I'm

1162
01:03:15,120 --> 01:03:18,520
Speaker 2: going to So there's this aggression nurturance which is perfectly

1163
01:03:18,640 --> 01:03:22,160
Speaker 2: normal and healthy, and then there is aggression that is violent,

1164
01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:24,360
Speaker 2: that is intended to hurt, and they are two very

1165
01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:28,680
Speaker 2: very different things. What we've also done is we've taken

1166
01:03:28,800 --> 01:03:34,160
Speaker 2: boyhood out of childhood, and in boyhood, packs of kids

1167
01:03:34,280 --> 01:03:38,720
Speaker 2: played together and also boys and rough and tumble. Stuff

1168
01:03:38,880 --> 01:03:42,360
Speaker 2: was normal, and we played games that were a little

1169
01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:44,560
Speaker 2: bit rough around the edges, but we learned where the

1170
01:03:44,680 --> 01:03:48,560
Speaker 2: boundaries were, like Brittish bulldog and things like that. We're

1171
01:03:48,640 --> 01:03:50,720
Speaker 2: chasing in the dark, all sorts of stuff that now

1172
01:03:50,760 --> 01:03:54,040
Speaker 2: we don't do because children might get hurt. You can't bullrush, no, no,

1173
01:03:54,160 --> 01:03:58,280
Speaker 2: you nice no, not in school, no, God, you can't

1174
01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:00,600
Speaker 2: even do a handstand in some schools. So what we've

1175
01:04:00,640 --> 01:04:02,680
Speaker 2: done is we've made and really that's another one of

1176
01:04:02,760 --> 01:04:06,040
Speaker 2: Jonathan Hat's messages. Safety is, and let's keep our kids safe.

1177
01:04:06,560 --> 01:04:10,000
Speaker 2: So our boys weren't having these natural consequences to poor

1178
01:04:10,160 --> 01:04:14,880
Speaker 2: choices with their body, and sometimes they get punished for

1179
01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:18,160
Speaker 2: something that was really just a that was only a

1180
01:04:18,280 --> 01:04:22,160
Speaker 2: fun connection moment. Right. That's where I think it gets

1181
01:04:22,160 --> 01:04:26,120
Speaker 2: a bit murky, And I think as we move forward,

1182
01:04:26,200 --> 01:04:29,320
Speaker 2: we run social emotional learning classes because children aren't playing

1183
01:04:29,360 --> 01:04:31,960
Speaker 2: enough with other children out in the natural world. So

1184
01:04:32,080 --> 01:04:37,200
Speaker 2: that's actually where it happened before. So what we're going forward.

1185
01:04:37,960 --> 01:04:40,760
Speaker 2: You can talk to La Cow's come home in a

1186
01:04:40,840 --> 01:04:45,160
Speaker 2: classroom about how you know how to be kind and thoughtful.

1187
01:04:45,880 --> 01:04:48,760
Speaker 2: But when you're a MiG dealer's triggered, it's still going

1188
01:04:48,840 --> 01:04:51,040
Speaker 2: to come out through the physicality of a boy. So

1189
01:04:51,280 --> 01:04:55,520
Speaker 2: anything we do under five that helps boys learn to lose.

1190
01:04:56,240 --> 01:04:58,360
Speaker 2: So you know, I'm really crabby because they took past

1191
01:04:58,440 --> 01:05:01,800
Speaker 2: the parcel out of birthday part and made it everyone

1192
01:05:01,880 --> 01:05:06,680
Speaker 2: get surprised. Under five, if you have a rooster boy,

1193
01:05:06,960 --> 01:05:09,480
Speaker 2: our rooster boys are far more likely to end up

1194
01:05:09,520 --> 01:05:12,920
Speaker 2: being the violent boy. They're more likely to be responding

1195
01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:16,800
Speaker 2: to the man box messages that still exist in our world.

1196
01:05:16,840 --> 01:05:18,920
Speaker 2: You've got to be the biggest, the toughest, the winner,

1197
01:05:19,520 --> 01:05:21,120
Speaker 2: and you've got to be stoic, and you don't show

1198
01:05:21,200 --> 01:05:25,920
Speaker 2: pain and vulnerability. So it's the rooster boys, because the

1199
01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:29,160
Speaker 2: sensitive boys, the lambs, they actually have feelings and they're

1200
01:05:29,200 --> 01:05:33,720
Speaker 2: quite considerate, and they're beautiful and equally valid. So it's

1201
01:05:33,760 --> 01:05:36,160
Speaker 2: the roosters who have that I have to win or

1202
01:05:36,280 --> 01:05:38,600
Speaker 2: be dominant. They're the ones that need a lot more

1203
01:05:38,680 --> 01:05:43,120
Speaker 2: empathy training in their childhood and a lot more training

1204
01:05:43,320 --> 01:05:46,760
Speaker 2: at learning to lose. And if we did that under five,

1205
01:05:47,680 --> 01:05:49,720
Speaker 2: we would make a difference in their ability in the

1206
01:05:49,800 --> 01:05:53,280
Speaker 2: hot moments. Also, the empathy building, we know, you can

1207
01:05:53,360 --> 01:05:56,040
Speaker 2: build the pathway if it's not if it's not there,

1208
01:05:56,160 --> 01:05:59,400
Speaker 2: And that's why I keep saying, if you've got rooster girls,

1209
01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:02,800
Speaker 2: all boys get a guinea pig, you know, something that's little,

1210
01:06:02,960 --> 01:06:05,520
Speaker 2: and in the stroking of it and the tenderness of it,

1211
01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:09,040
Speaker 2: they actually build those empathy pathways in the brain so

1212
01:06:09,160 --> 01:06:12,240
Speaker 2: we can actually override it. Of course, I also wanted

1213
01:06:12,320 --> 01:06:14,439
Speaker 2: to die because I want them to understand what death

1214
01:06:14,600 --> 01:06:16,120
Speaker 2: is and that hurts in your heart. And there's a

1215
01:06:16,120 --> 01:06:18,840
Speaker 2: whole lot of lessons in my resilience work there, and

1216
01:06:18,920 --> 01:06:21,840
Speaker 2: also the instant turnaround. We used to play endless, you know,

1217
01:06:21,960 --> 01:06:24,520
Speaker 2: there was all of the games that weren't on a screen.

1218
01:06:25,200 --> 01:06:27,720
Speaker 2: You do not learn to lose on a screen because

1219
01:06:27,720 --> 01:06:31,320
Speaker 2: there's not another human. You actually have to learn with human.

1220
01:06:31,480 --> 01:06:35,520
Speaker 2: So whatever Hangman naughts and crosses, I love spot. It's

1221
01:06:35,600 --> 01:06:39,520
Speaker 2: fast turnaround. I do that with my grandkids. So every

1222
01:06:39,640 --> 01:06:43,520
Speaker 2: single time we're investing in those, we're building a man's capacity,

1223
01:06:43,560 --> 01:06:46,880
Speaker 2: in a teenage boy's capacity, in that moment to go,

1224
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:49,840
Speaker 2: I can walk away. And there is this beautiful work

1225
01:06:49,920 --> 01:06:53,880
Speaker 2: from Peter Gray, who's a play specialist, and he talks

1226
01:06:53,920 --> 01:06:58,880
Speaker 2: about the absence of all those player opportunities early, particularly

1227
01:06:59,000 --> 01:07:03,200
Speaker 2: for boys. They miss what's called a play code, and

1228
01:07:03,320 --> 01:07:06,960
Speaker 2: the play code is built by endless play with other children.

1229
01:07:07,000 --> 01:07:09,680
Speaker 2: We start to read the micro expressions on the face,

1230
01:07:10,840 --> 01:07:14,200
Speaker 2: which is also what he believes is contributing to the

1231
01:07:14,280 --> 01:07:19,200
Speaker 2: increase in violence, because a person who's potentially a violent human,

1232
01:07:19,520 --> 01:07:23,080
Speaker 2: there is signs on their face, but we're not reading them.

1233
01:07:23,280 --> 01:07:26,120
Speaker 2: So that's the king punches, that's the knives, that's all

1234
01:07:26,200 --> 01:07:30,760
Speaker 2: this stuff. And then what we've normalized online is violence.

1235
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:35,000
Speaker 2: And I can still remember, like it's probably eight or

1236
01:07:35,080 --> 01:07:37,680
Speaker 2: nine years ago. I remember going into the last DVD shop.

1237
01:07:37,720 --> 01:07:39,840
Speaker 2: I said, I go and have a little look. I

1238
01:07:39,920 --> 01:07:42,640
Speaker 2: couldn't find something for me to watch because nearly everything

1239
01:07:42,760 --> 01:07:45,920
Speaker 2: is violent. We are marinating our kids in violence. We

1240
01:07:46,040 --> 01:07:50,400
Speaker 2: are desensitizing them to violence, and then we put them

1241
01:07:50,480 --> 01:07:55,360
Speaker 2: in front of hardcore porn, which is equally as violent,

1242
01:07:55,800 --> 01:08:01,480
Speaker 2: and we're wondering, what's happening to our boys? Ah, how

1243
01:08:01,520 --> 01:08:01,840
Speaker 2: about that?

1244
01:08:03,080 --> 01:08:04,280
Speaker 3: What do we do now?

1245
01:08:04,480 --> 01:08:04,720
Speaker 1: Mate?

1246
01:08:05,200 --> 01:08:05,360
Speaker 3: Right?

1247
01:08:05,680 --> 01:08:08,920
Speaker 2: So we need to nurture the tenderness that is inside

1248
01:08:08,960 --> 01:08:12,840
Speaker 2: little boys before five, because we are still speaking to

1249
01:08:12,920 --> 01:08:16,519
Speaker 2: them more harshly because we think they're tough. We shame

1250
01:08:16,640 --> 01:08:19,400
Speaker 2: them in our classrooms. We shame them in sad lives.

1251
01:08:19,560 --> 01:08:22,240
Speaker 2: I've seen it in early childhood. We push them into

1252
01:08:22,280 --> 01:08:25,439
Speaker 2: school before they're cognitively ready, so they become failures. And

1253
01:08:25,479 --> 01:08:27,360
Speaker 2: when they're failing, they're going to be angry. And when

1254
01:08:27,360 --> 01:08:30,720
Speaker 2: they're angry, that's got to come out. We have an

1255
01:08:30,840 --> 01:08:33,759
Speaker 2: education system that's not honoring that boys need more movement

1256
01:08:33,800 --> 01:08:36,400
Speaker 2: in classrooms, that they get busted because I can't sit

1257
01:08:36,479 --> 01:08:39,679
Speaker 2: still because they have less dopamine. You've got me started

1258
01:08:39,720 --> 01:08:42,040
Speaker 2: on something. I can go for four hours. Our school

1259
01:08:42,080 --> 01:08:45,120
Speaker 2: system is not supporting the healthy raising of our boys

1260
01:08:45,200 --> 01:08:48,800
Speaker 2: because it's stole the age of five. Steve Boff has said,

1261
01:08:48,960 --> 01:08:51,040
Speaker 2: you know for a long long time that our boys

1262
01:08:51,120 --> 01:08:55,759
Speaker 2: are needing more time to be able to manage the social, emotional,

1263
01:08:55,800 --> 01:08:59,240
Speaker 2: and cognitive expectations of a classroom where formalized learning is

1264
01:08:59,280 --> 01:09:02,000
Speaker 2: taking place. If you tried to do that in an

1265
01:09:02,040 --> 01:09:06,559
Speaker 2: outside classroom, you probably nail it right. So we've got

1266
01:09:06,640 --> 01:09:09,280
Speaker 2: some fundamental things, but I think we can each chip

1267
01:09:09,320 --> 01:09:12,760
Speaker 2: away at some of those that we need to be

1268
01:09:12,800 --> 01:09:16,760
Speaker 2: able to address the fact that, you know, our world

1269
01:09:16,760 --> 01:09:21,240
Speaker 2: should be safer. That's given. And I have seven precious

1270
01:09:21,240 --> 01:09:24,320
Speaker 2: little grandchildren that I am equally as concerned about. I know,

1271
01:09:24,520 --> 01:09:26,719
Speaker 2: nearly the eighth and then I think they're all retiring

1272
01:09:26,800 --> 01:09:29,479
Speaker 2: on me. But I am equally as concerned. But it's

1273
01:09:30,400 --> 01:09:31,800
Speaker 2: there's a part of me. I've got a dog and

1274
01:09:31,840 --> 01:09:33,800
Speaker 2: I walk it, and I live in a lovely country town,

1275
01:09:34,560 --> 01:09:37,120
Speaker 2: and I sometimes I come to places like Sydney and

1276
01:09:37,200 --> 01:09:39,080
Speaker 2: I think, I don't think i'd walk my dog here

1277
01:09:40,240 --> 01:09:43,599
Speaker 2: just because of the pure increase in numbers of humans,

1278
01:09:43,960 --> 01:09:46,840
Speaker 2: do you know what I mean? And it rips my

1279
01:09:46,920 --> 01:09:51,640
Speaker 2: heart out that we have such a significant increase in

1280
01:09:52,400 --> 01:09:58,280
Speaker 2: family violence. That crushes me because I believe in, you know,

1281
01:09:58,760 --> 01:10:03,559
Speaker 2: creating families that functional. It just makes me so sad.

1282
01:10:03,760 --> 01:10:06,080
Speaker 1: We talked about the evolutionary thing, and I've recently been

1283
01:10:06,160 --> 01:10:09,480
Speaker 1: kind of on this trip that you and I physiologically,

1284
01:10:10,439 --> 01:10:15,640
Speaker 1: if you know, say up in Greenland they pull a

1285
01:10:15,920 --> 01:10:20,959
Speaker 1: human out of an iceberg a glicia. Fundamentally we are identical,

1286
01:10:21,280 --> 01:10:23,320
Speaker 1: all right, someone three hundred thousand years ago.

1287
01:10:23,360 --> 01:10:24,080
Speaker 3: This is what we are.

1288
01:10:24,720 --> 01:10:27,920
Speaker 1: So we can't ignore how our bodies and brains work

1289
01:10:28,040 --> 01:10:30,800
Speaker 1: because the world they were designed to right. And yet

1290
01:10:30,840 --> 01:10:33,760
Speaker 1: we also can't ignore that evolutionarily. There are reasons for

1291
01:10:33,880 --> 01:10:38,120
Speaker 1: all of that. The community, the helping that touches that

1292
01:10:39,120 --> 01:10:42,280
Speaker 1: for a long time, it's understandable why, and for a

1293
01:10:42,320 --> 01:10:47,080
Speaker 1: long time culturally and religion which often helped that sort

1294
01:10:47,080 --> 01:10:50,120
Speaker 1: of carry forward. As we moved more and more secular world,

1295
01:10:50,880 --> 01:10:53,759
Speaker 1: it's a little more on us to make sure that happens.

1296
01:10:54,400 --> 01:10:57,719
Speaker 1: So what are things that you know? You mentioned movement,

1297
01:10:57,800 --> 01:11:01,080
Speaker 1: you mentioned dance like that's something and I do quite

1298
01:11:01,080 --> 01:11:03,639
Speaker 1: a bit like dance, singing. These are really important things

1299
01:11:03,680 --> 01:11:06,000
Speaker 1: to do. You don't have to do them in time

1300
01:11:06,280 --> 01:11:06,760
Speaker 1: or in key.

1301
01:11:07,080 --> 01:11:07,880
Speaker 3: I just do them.

1302
01:11:08,760 --> 01:11:10,639
Speaker 1: What are some other things that parents might be able

1303
01:11:10,720 --> 01:11:14,120
Speaker 1: to do for themselves, to almost kind of as best

1304
01:11:14,200 --> 01:11:19,600
Speaker 1: we can replicate that environment that we have evolved to, insisting.

1305
01:11:19,840 --> 01:11:23,880
Speaker 2: Firstly that village concept, of course, is fundamentally is still

1306
01:11:23,920 --> 01:11:26,840
Speaker 2: important to us in terms of your far more at

1307
01:11:26,960 --> 01:11:29,559
Speaker 2: risk if it's just a very small group to competer

1308
01:11:29,560 --> 01:11:33,759
Speaker 2: to pick. My message to parents is find the tribe

1309
01:11:33,840 --> 01:11:36,120
Speaker 2: rather than the village. It's impossible to find the village,

1310
01:11:36,200 --> 01:11:38,280
Speaker 2: except if you live in country towns where everyone knows

1311
01:11:38,320 --> 01:11:40,200
Speaker 2: what's going on anyway, and they will tell you what

1312
01:11:40,280 --> 01:11:43,280
Speaker 2: you're doing because you don't flip the current, right yeah,

1313
01:11:43,400 --> 01:11:46,760
Speaker 2: oh yeah, let's see it like that. Right, So a

1314
01:11:46,880 --> 01:11:49,800
Speaker 2: tribe means it's a smaller group. But what it is

1315
01:11:49,920 --> 01:11:53,880
Speaker 2: is the humans who are in your life around your children.

1316
01:11:53,960 --> 01:11:56,040
Speaker 2: So whether it's the people with kids the same age,

1317
01:11:57,200 --> 01:12:00,280
Speaker 2: the teachers within your school environment who really are on

1318
01:12:00,360 --> 01:12:03,040
Speaker 2: the same page, is that we actually consciously need to

1319
01:12:03,160 --> 01:12:05,960
Speaker 2: create a sense of connectedness because our kids need to

1320
01:12:06,000 --> 01:12:09,519
Speaker 2: feel safe with some other people other than us. And

1321
01:12:09,640 --> 01:12:12,400
Speaker 2: I challenge parents quite often, if your car breaks down

1322
01:12:12,439 --> 01:12:14,760
Speaker 2: on the way to pick kids up, who can you call?

1323
01:12:15,560 --> 01:12:17,479
Speaker 2: Who you know can walk up to the school because

1324
01:12:17,479 --> 01:12:18,880
Speaker 2: they're going to be there, Because you know they're going

1325
01:12:18,920 --> 01:12:20,679
Speaker 2: to be there. That's the first thing. You know they're

1326
01:12:20,680 --> 01:12:23,479
Speaker 2: going to be there too. The school knows that they

1327
01:12:23,520 --> 01:12:26,120
Speaker 2: are the safe person that you get on with them,

1328
01:12:26,120 --> 01:12:28,720
Speaker 2: They're going to pick up your kids. How many of

1329
01:12:28,760 --> 01:12:29,280
Speaker 2: you've got that?

1330
01:12:29,800 --> 01:12:30,000
Speaker 1: Wow?

1331
01:12:30,439 --> 01:12:34,080
Speaker 2: Right, that's the stuff that matters. And also, you know

1332
01:12:34,280 --> 01:12:36,400
Speaker 2: when we went through COVID, it was really how we

1333
01:12:36,479 --> 01:12:39,640
Speaker 2: were all kept away from each other. How fundamentally that

1334
01:12:40,080 --> 01:12:43,640
Speaker 2: did everyone's heads in right. So the second part to

1335
01:12:43,760 --> 01:12:47,760
Speaker 2: that is the we. We are a social species. We're

1336
01:12:47,800 --> 01:12:52,439
Speaker 2: not a me species. What is online is very much

1337
01:12:52,520 --> 01:12:55,720
Speaker 2: a focus of me. So do anything you can that

1338
01:12:55,920 --> 01:12:59,040
Speaker 2: encourages the we and your family. It's us as a system,

1339
01:12:59,160 --> 01:13:02,560
Speaker 2: it's us as a try yep, going forward. And my

1340
01:13:02,680 --> 01:13:06,519
Speaker 2: other big suggestions whoever you're co parenting with, it's hard.

1341
01:13:06,640 --> 01:13:08,519
Speaker 2: Parenting is really hard. Like I don't think we'd breed

1342
01:13:08,560 --> 01:13:09,840
Speaker 2: if we knew how hard it was going to be.

1343
01:13:10,040 --> 01:13:12,160
Speaker 2: Really I think we just go no thanks, I'm out

1344
01:13:12,200 --> 01:13:14,920
Speaker 2: of here. That whoever you're co parenting with, have a

1345
01:13:15,000 --> 01:13:18,160
Speaker 2: really honest conversation, not only about sharing the to do list,

1346
01:13:18,240 --> 01:13:21,360
Speaker 2: but what is it that you need to do for

1347
01:13:21,439 --> 01:13:24,320
Speaker 2: at least twice a week, for an hour and a

1348
01:13:24,400 --> 01:13:29,639
Speaker 2: half that fills your cup and prioritize that, make sure

1349
01:13:29,760 --> 01:13:31,880
Speaker 2: either of you just works out how can we fit

1350
01:13:32,000 --> 01:13:33,840
Speaker 2: that in for each of us as the growing ups,

1351
01:13:33,840 --> 01:13:37,000
Speaker 2: because unless we've got a fill cup, full cup or

1352
01:13:37,040 --> 01:13:40,120
Speaker 2: a half fill cup, we can't pour into to the

1353
01:13:40,200 --> 01:13:42,160
Speaker 2: little ones in our house and everything's not going to

1354
01:13:42,240 --> 01:13:45,800
Speaker 2: work as well. And every now and then, just keep

1355
01:13:45,920 --> 01:13:50,200
Speaker 2: recognizing that there is no such thing imperfect as perfection

1356
01:13:50,400 --> 01:13:55,120
Speaker 2: in parenting, and that every every age, every stage will

1357
01:13:55,160 --> 01:13:59,519
Speaker 2: have a gift and a challenge. And that just beating

1358
01:13:59,560 --> 01:14:02,960
Speaker 2: yourself because you've had the shouting moment, you've lost something

1359
01:14:03,080 --> 01:14:04,680
Speaker 2: or like me, left one at the pool. You know

1360
01:14:05,360 --> 01:14:07,840
Speaker 2: you're not a lousy parent. You're a parent just doing

1361
01:14:07,920 --> 01:14:10,160
Speaker 2: the best you can. Right you Just get back up,

1362
01:14:11,120 --> 01:14:14,280
Speaker 2: focus on connection and get back up the next day.

1363
01:14:14,479 --> 01:14:17,240
Speaker 2: Let yourself off the hook and have another crack.

1364
01:14:18,240 --> 01:14:19,840
Speaker 1: You said that no one had become a parent, and

1365
01:14:20,080 --> 01:14:24,160
Speaker 1: how heart it is right. I was told when I

1366
01:14:24,240 --> 01:14:28,000
Speaker 1: got sober by a person whose name I won't mention,

1367
01:14:28,120 --> 01:14:31,559
Speaker 1: but they were Yeah, a famous person said, listen, man,

1368
01:14:32,040 --> 01:14:36,360
Speaker 1: if you go after this with fifty percent of the

1369
01:14:36,520 --> 01:14:39,840
Speaker 1: energy that you went after the fandangle reat took to

1370
01:14:40,040 --> 01:14:43,760
Speaker 1: organize the binges and everything, you'll be fine, all right,

1371
01:14:43,760 --> 01:14:46,519
Speaker 1: because you trust me, you've got the capacity in the

1372
01:14:46,600 --> 01:14:49,479
Speaker 1: same way I would say that, yeah, as hard as anything,

1373
01:14:50,120 --> 01:14:54,320
Speaker 1: but how amazing it is. Well, actually eclipse that, Yeah,

1374
01:14:55,920 --> 01:14:58,680
Speaker 1: and what you get out of it as well. Absolutely,

1375
01:14:59,320 --> 01:15:02,760
Speaker 1: it's been the most ordinary ten years, I won't tell you. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1376
01:15:03,280 --> 01:15:05,760
Speaker 1: And I get up every day excited as to what,

1377
01:15:06,439 --> 01:15:09,599
Speaker 1: well this is fun because then you every day, Yeah,

1378
01:15:09,760 --> 01:15:12,120
Speaker 1: every day, it's fantastic.

1379
01:15:12,680 --> 01:15:16,280
Speaker 2: I think also what we can do when we're tired

1380
01:15:16,360 --> 01:15:17,880
Speaker 2: and there's a lot of pressure on us as we

1381
01:15:18,000 --> 01:15:21,400
Speaker 2: just focus on all this shit stuff we keep forgetting

1382
01:15:23,200 --> 01:15:25,439
Speaker 2: to focus on the good bit. So whether it's you know,

1383
01:15:25,600 --> 01:15:28,000
Speaker 2: the movie night with popcorn and farts on the couch,

1384
01:15:28,400 --> 01:15:30,479
Speaker 2: or we're cooking pancakes together, or we've just been to

1385
01:15:30,520 --> 01:15:33,519
Speaker 2: the beach and had the best time. You know, I

1386
01:15:33,640 --> 01:15:35,680
Speaker 2: think we've just got to create those I call it

1387
01:15:35,760 --> 01:15:40,599
Speaker 2: pockets of joy in homes that we repeat often, because

1388
01:15:41,160 --> 01:15:44,920
Speaker 2: what your kids remember are the repeated pockets of joy,

1389
01:15:45,200 --> 01:15:48,439
Speaker 2: not the crap. Right. The more we can create that,

1390
01:15:48,640 --> 01:15:52,040
Speaker 2: the more the brain has a capacity to anchor those memories. Yeah,

1391
01:15:52,080 --> 01:15:55,719
Speaker 2: and sometimes we just need to lighten up a heck

1392
01:15:55,800 --> 01:15:59,240
Speaker 2: of a lot more because Seriously, it's more funny than

1393
01:15:59,280 --> 01:16:03,320
Speaker 2: it's awful, and it releases cortisol at the same pace

1394
01:16:03,360 --> 01:16:06,679
Speaker 2: as screaming or crying. I just I just go for laughing.

1395
01:16:07,640 --> 01:16:10,080
Speaker 1: The idea that all those little tribes that you're talking

1396
01:16:10,120 --> 01:16:15,000
Speaker 1: about would intersect, yeah, bit by bit by bit, and

1397
01:16:15,080 --> 01:16:18,360
Speaker 1: then what do you go at? All these people acrossover. Ye,

1398
01:16:20,120 --> 01:16:22,679
Speaker 1: seems like a far lovelier city to live.

1399
01:16:22,560 --> 01:16:25,800
Speaker 2: In, totally, and it's possible, and it's doable.

1400
01:16:26,120 --> 01:16:28,800
Speaker 1: From people who are listening. Literally, I've made a model

1401
01:16:28,880 --> 01:16:31,240
Speaker 1: with placements on the table. You have to demonstrate the

1402
01:16:31,280 --> 01:16:33,200
Speaker 1: big diagram and the crossovers.

1403
01:16:33,240 --> 01:16:35,479
Speaker 2: Say let's turn up and the parks more often, let's

1404
01:16:35,560 --> 01:16:38,120
Speaker 2: turn up, and let's just you know, let's just have

1405
01:16:38,280 --> 01:16:38,679
Speaker 2: more fun.

1406
01:16:39,040 --> 01:16:41,479
Speaker 1: Ah. Yeah, you said you could talk for four hours.

1407
01:16:41,520 --> 01:16:44,840
Speaker 1: I could talk to you for four hours. And I'm

1408
01:16:44,880 --> 01:16:47,800
Speaker 1: pretty sure there's a four o'clock. I'm probably I'm probably

1409
01:16:47,800 --> 01:16:50,080
Speaker 1: gonna have to go get on a bicycle longer, get

1410
01:16:50,080 --> 01:16:54,000
Speaker 1: a sun from daycare. He's good, he's so good.

1411
01:16:54,360 --> 01:16:57,760
Speaker 5: And how just like you didn't know that was in

1412
01:16:57,840 --> 01:17:05,320
Speaker 5: front of you, the magic No either, Georgia, you just

1413
01:17:05,400 --> 01:17:06,719
Speaker 5: didn't know it was I didn't.

1414
01:17:06,800 --> 01:17:09,479
Speaker 1: I didn't I didn't know the I'm not going to lie.

1415
01:17:09,520 --> 01:17:12,160
Speaker 1: I wasn't prepared for the challenge of step fatherhood. It

1416
01:17:12,280 --> 01:17:16,200
Speaker 1: is a might have to chat to your mate Steve

1417
01:17:16,240 --> 01:17:17,920
Speaker 1: Bidoff about it, or maybe you know, you and I

1418
01:17:18,000 --> 01:17:19,479
Speaker 1: could do something about it, because it's the part of

1419
01:17:19,560 --> 01:17:21,040
Speaker 1: fatherhood that people don't talk about.

1420
01:17:21,200 --> 01:17:23,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, bonus dad, Yeah.

1421
01:17:23,800 --> 01:17:24,160
Speaker 1: It's the.

1422
01:17:25,960 --> 01:17:26,400
Speaker 3: It is.

1423
01:17:29,360 --> 01:17:32,880
Speaker 1: Way harder than anyone would ever think about, and it

1424
01:17:33,000 --> 01:17:36,320
Speaker 1: is more rewarding than anything I could similarly rewarding.

1425
01:17:38,160 --> 01:17:39,320
Speaker 2: And it's all about love.

1426
01:17:39,760 --> 01:17:40,120
Speaker 1: It is.

1427
01:17:40,600 --> 01:17:43,960
Speaker 2: It's you get out of your own way. It doesn't

1428
01:17:43,960 --> 01:17:46,280
Speaker 2: have to be a biological connection. That's why, you know,

1429
01:17:46,439 --> 01:17:49,400
Speaker 2: heads off to all the foster parents out there and

1430
01:17:49,479 --> 01:17:52,800
Speaker 2: all the adopted ones and all the grandparents looking after you.

1431
01:17:52,840 --> 01:17:54,080
Speaker 2: And at the end of the day, it's just love.

1432
01:17:54,320 --> 01:17:57,240
Speaker 1: What's amazing is that when we talked about my score,

1433
01:17:57,320 --> 01:17:59,439
Speaker 1: like this conversation would not have happened in the public

1434
01:17:59,520 --> 01:18:02,760
Speaker 1: space when I was schooling in my lifetime, all right,

1435
01:18:03,040 --> 01:18:05,479
Speaker 1: that work that you do would not have been it,

1436
01:18:05,760 --> 01:18:09,880
Speaker 1: And that particularly because it's so much based as much

1437
01:18:09,920 --> 01:18:13,160
Speaker 1: as you come across, you're based in research, which is

1438
01:18:13,200 --> 01:18:16,560
Speaker 1: what I truly, truly, truly love. And you know, my

1439
01:18:16,640 --> 01:18:19,599
Speaker 1: parents are bosced doctors, and if the research shifts, you're like, Okay,

1440
01:18:19,680 --> 01:18:22,000
Speaker 1: well I guess we'll try this. This is we used

1441
01:18:22,000 --> 01:18:24,040
Speaker 1: to do this. But the status show is long term.

1442
01:18:25,320 --> 01:18:27,320
Speaker 2: So that's the thing that is kind of nice. When

1443
01:18:27,360 --> 01:18:30,360
Speaker 2: the research comes up and back something you've done intuitively,

1444
01:18:30,600 --> 01:18:34,960
Speaker 2: that's that's like really sure, beautiful, God, oh we've finally

1445
01:18:35,000 --> 01:18:38,439
Speaker 2: got evidence crack at something that I felt right.

1446
01:18:39,680 --> 01:18:42,720
Speaker 1: But it's also it's really important, like particularly if it's

1447
01:18:43,120 --> 01:18:46,479
Speaker 1: if you're asking for money for a policy intervention, you

1448
01:18:46,640 --> 01:18:49,160
Speaker 1: need to be able to go, yeah, here is why

1449
01:18:50,400 --> 01:18:53,439
Speaker 1: not just because I feel it, you know, it's important

1450
01:18:53,479 --> 01:18:56,800
Speaker 1: to be able to show it, and yeah, i'd vote

1451
01:18:56,840 --> 01:19:04,040
Speaker 1: for you. Thanks nice one, Maggie Dae, great, thank you. Well,

1452
01:19:04,439 --> 01:19:06,920
Speaker 1: you're sitting with me in podcasts mode. You're not sitting

1453
01:19:06,960 --> 01:19:08,800
Speaker 1: with me and like, you haven't asked me to do

1454
01:19:08,920 --> 01:19:13,880
Speaker 1: something four times that I then ask you, Hey, what

1455
01:19:13,920 --> 01:19:16,719
Speaker 1: do you want me to do with this? I've completely

1456
01:19:16,840 --> 01:19:19,000
Speaker 1: forgotten that you've asked me to do it four times.

1457
01:19:19,560 --> 01:19:22,960
Speaker 3: And I've raised four sons, Dude, I'm really well trained

1458
01:19:23,000 --> 01:19:25,240
Speaker 3: in that, and even today I love my boys and

1459
01:19:25,240 --> 01:19:28,040
Speaker 3: they're really intelligent men. But every now and then I

1460
01:19:28,280 --> 01:19:31,600
Speaker 3: ask them to tell their beautiful wife something and it

1461
01:19:31,760 --> 01:19:38,400
Speaker 3: doesn't happen, and I'll just really we were laughing the

1462
01:19:38,479 --> 01:19:40,800
Speaker 3: other day because I called up for a video chat

1463
01:19:41,040 --> 01:19:43,280
Speaker 3: with one of them, the one that's in Sydney, and

1464
01:19:43,920 --> 01:19:45,840
Speaker 3: it was a little bit tricky with the siblings. I'm

1465
01:19:45,880 --> 01:19:47,680
Speaker 3: having a few words, so they're going to call Nanny back,

1466
01:19:47,800 --> 01:19:49,120
Speaker 3: or we're going to I'll catch you after dinner.

1467
01:19:49,120 --> 01:19:51,639
Speaker 2: I'm no question. Next time I'm talking to the daughter

1468
01:19:51,680 --> 01:19:54,720
Speaker 2: and the sun comes in and says, ah, I was

1469
01:19:54,760 --> 01:19:56,760
Speaker 2: going to call you back, wasn't I wait, Yeah, I

1470
01:19:56,840 --> 01:20:01,840
Speaker 2: need you to forget. It's all good love. Love's so

1471
01:20:02,000 --> 01:20:03,160
Speaker 2: smart they will forgetful.

1472
01:20:06,840 --> 01:20:10,760
Speaker 1: Ah, you're the best. Thanks for coming round. And that

1473
01:20:10,880 --> 01:20:13,080
Speaker 1: was Maggie Dent. The link is in the show notes

1474
01:20:13,160 --> 01:20:16,040
Speaker 1: to find her seminars, her books, some of her lectures,

1475
01:20:16,520 --> 01:20:20,280
Speaker 1: got audiobooks, ebooks. She's just magnificent. That episode gave me

1476
01:20:20,360 --> 01:20:22,439
Speaker 1: a lot to think about the conversation she and I had.

1477
01:20:22,800 --> 01:20:25,800
Speaker 1: There's a lot there. I'll let it swell around in

1478
01:20:25,840 --> 01:20:28,040
Speaker 1: my head a bit. I might get back to you

1479
01:20:28,120 --> 01:20:30,000
Speaker 1: on that. It was just so wonderful having her here.

1480
01:20:30,080 --> 01:20:31,880
Speaker 1: She's a great human being. I hope you felt that

1481
01:20:31,920 --> 01:20:33,680
Speaker 1: connection as much as I did. I hope you got

1482
01:20:33,720 --> 01:20:36,320
Speaker 1: a bit of that. Her books are just fantast she's

1483
01:20:36,320 --> 01:20:39,559
Speaker 1: an independently published autor. She's an astoundingly successful woman. Thank

1484
01:20:39,600 --> 01:20:40,880
Speaker 1: you so much for being a part of the show.

1485
01:20:41,600 --> 01:20:42,479
Speaker 1: I'll back here on Friday.

1486
01:20:44,200 --> 01:20:46,840
Speaker 4: This episode was brought to you by Andy Maher on

1487
01:20:47,040 --> 01:20:51,280
Speaker 4: audio post production, Becksied on video post production, toe Hider

1488
01:20:51,400 --> 01:20:54,680
Speaker 4: on music. My producer is Bree Steel and my executive

1489
01:20:54,680 --> 01:20:58,200
Speaker 4: function assistant is Monica Chapman. For every episode ever. To

1490
01:20:58,280 --> 01:21:00,280
Speaker 4: get on the mailing list or to get in touch

1491
01:21:00,360 --> 01:21:03,599
Speaker 4: through the contact form, heads to Astroginsburg dot com.