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Speaker 1: Yesterday morning, we were having a chat with Professor Nikolas

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Speaker 1: Spurrier here in the studio. She came in later on

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Speaker 1: in the show and was talking about the need primarily

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Speaker 1: the need to be vaccinated as we hit winter and

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Speaker 1: all sorts of illnesses, not just the flu and COVID

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Speaker 1: that's around and spiking, and just looking at seven News

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Speaker 1: last night, the AEU Education Union talking about hundreds of

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Speaker 1: teachers who are off sick at the moment. This is

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Speaker 1: their state president, Kendall Proud, talking about the teachers off work.

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Speaker 2: Our members are reporting it's finding they're finding it really

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Speaker 2: hard to get relief teachers to cover any of the

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Speaker 2: classes that they're missing. It's really difficult at times. We

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Speaker 2: do have children who are see attending classes.

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Speaker 1: So two hundred and fifty public school staff off last

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Speaker 1: week due to COVID. Total number absent most likely much

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Speaker 1: higher with the flu and RSV not reported to the

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Speaker 1: Education Department. So hundreds of teachers away from school across

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Speaker 1: the state just last week. Doctor Rod Pierce's chair of

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Speaker 1: the Immunization Coalition and joins me. Now, Rod, good morning,

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Speaker 1: we are seeing a spike and I noticed it in

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Speaker 1: the COVID figures the department puts out every week. We

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Speaker 1: got to over two thousand reported cases last week, and

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Speaker 1: I'm sure the unreported cases would make that figure much

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Speaker 1: much higher.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, good morning. A lot of people will test at

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Speaker 3: home and not report it. And we're certainly sending out

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Speaker 3: scripts every day. So our patients that we know ring

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Speaker 3: us and contact us and we start them on anti virals.

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Speaker 3: And I was working in a country on the weekend

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Speaker 3: and the nursing home had seven cases in the nursing

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Speaker 3: home and eleven of their staff away, and so replacing

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Speaker 3: them the same thing as Education department has become a

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Speaker 3: real challenge. And that's with COVID, but there's also the

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Speaker 3: other infections as well. Okay, so yeah, a lot of

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Speaker 3: stuff around.

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Speaker 1: COVID is kind of interesting because that just happens to

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Speaker 1: be peaking. It's not a winter realness as such, is it.

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Speaker 1: But it comes in goes.

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Speaker 3: And one of the challenges we've got is that when

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Speaker 3: we're looking at the vaccine, which one do we use

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Speaker 3: because it changes lightly, but to make sure we've got

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Speaker 3: the right ones. If we start to get combination of

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Speaker 3: vaccines and think of vaccinating people with COVID and flu,

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Speaker 3: then it may be the wrong time of the year

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Speaker 3: when the COVID rates are going up, So lots of

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Speaker 3: questions for the future about how to manage it. But

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Speaker 3: exactly right. So COVID isn't a seasonal disease. It will

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Speaker 3: go up and down in waves that we still haven't

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Speaker 3: seen settle. But flu and the other regular viruses are

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Speaker 3: a seasonal challenge, so we need to make sure we

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Speaker 3: cover for them. So it's not all synchronized. It's not

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Speaker 3: all straightforward. It's just not following a simple It just

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Speaker 3: affects people at a certain age. So the vaccine programs

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Speaker 3: and what we're advising people is far more complicated than

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Speaker 3: it was five years ago.

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Speaker 1: Okay, is COVID likely to settle down to become a

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Speaker 1: winter type illness? Is that the long term expectator? And

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Speaker 1: what's long term if that's the case.

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Speaker 3: So at this stage we're predicting that it won't be

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Speaker 3: a seasonal disease and it will come and go and

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Speaker 3: a little bit like hooping cough, which is a four

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Speaker 3: year cycle and some of the other diseases we see,

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Speaker 3: is that the illness will come around. People get up

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Speaker 3: some natural protection, some hybrid protection. We call it bits

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Speaker 3: some vaccines and bit of protection from what's circulating, and

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Speaker 3: therefore they're well protected. So the next year the rus

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Speaker 3: doesn't or bacteria doesn't spread as well, and an ear afterwards,

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Speaker 3: we haven't seen it for a while, and so people's

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Speaker 3: immune system drops back a little bit and then there's

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Speaker 3: enough around to spread. So the herd protection changes. And

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Speaker 3: whether it's going to be a four months six month

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Speaker 3: cycle or whether it's going to be an eighteen month cycle,

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Speaker 3: we just don't know. But the peaks we expect to

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Speaker 3: be less, or we've been hoping that they're less. But

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Speaker 3: that's also interesting. If there's a bit of variation, is

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Speaker 3: it going to be like flu that it changes enough

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Speaker 3: that we've got to change the vac And will it

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Speaker 3: be an eighteen month cycle or will it be a

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Speaker 3: six month cycle. So all of that is in the pipeline,

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Speaker 3: but we just don't know yet what the outcome is

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Speaker 3: going to be.

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Speaker 1: Just explain RSV to us, that's not the flu, is it,

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Speaker 1: that's not a common cold, that's something else it? And

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Speaker 1: does the flu vaccine cover it?

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Speaker 3: RSV is completely separate virus. We've known about RSV for

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Speaker 3: many years, and we've known that children's hospitals are full

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Speaker 3: every winter. With RSV. It's a disease that affects people

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Speaker 3: elderly people as well and put seven hospital cause of

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Speaker 3: heart attacks and semilar things. But completely different virus from

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Speaker 3: the flu. It's got two strains, but the vaccines we've

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Speaker 3: got to cover both of the strains. The technology to

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Speaker 3: actually develop RSV vaccine has been in the pipeline, but

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Speaker 3: we didn't get it right and so a two years

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Speaker 3: ago fifteen years ago when we we had a vaccine

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Speaker 3: that didn't work. And now we've actually understood the virus

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Speaker 3: more and how its attacks the cells, and we've got

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Speaker 3: vaccines now that can be effective. But it's the vaccines

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Speaker 3: for elderly people and we may start to use it

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Speaker 3: in children and for well it's so during pregnancy and

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Speaker 3: for children under two years. There's some antibodies for passive

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Speaker 3: immunity that we're using starting to use in Australia for

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Speaker 3: the first time, so we have got some defense. But

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Speaker 3: it's completely different disease, completely different process, completely different vaccines

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Speaker 3: that we have to use virus V and that maybe

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Speaker 3: every two years we would vaccinate for that if we

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Speaker 3: do develop a vaccine.

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Speaker 1: So the flu vaccine won't catch it, then obviously.

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Speaker 3: There's no crossover protection with a flu vaccine.

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Speaker 1: Okay. Yesterday Nikolaspury was saying regarding the debate whether we

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Speaker 1: should have a free flu vaccine available for everyone, she said,

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Speaker 1: where it's been done in the past, we've had it

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Speaker 1: here in South Australia before. The take up rate is

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Speaker 1: not noticeably much different to what it is currently with

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Speaker 1: the free flu vaccine for the over sixty fives and

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Speaker 1: kids under five or six or whatever. The age cutoff

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Speaker 1: is there that people when it was free and still

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Speaker 1: is interstate here and there a few states, no higher

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Speaker 1: take up than anywhere else. So I don't know where

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Speaker 1: you said and that should it be free?

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Speaker 3: Well, the trade off between looking at the infrastructure you

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Speaker 3: need to put in place to collect money and to

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Speaker 3: charge for it, whereas a bulk order from the country

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Speaker 3: that says everyone in Australia is eligible for a free

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Speaker 3: flu vaccine from the age of six months changes the

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Speaker 3: dynamics a little bit. So that's one issue. Secondly, every

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Speaker 3: person that gets a flu vaccine, they're protected themselves and

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Speaker 3: people around them are actually protected. We've got vaccines going

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Speaker 3: through businesses, businesses, are bearing the costs because they can

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Speaker 3: see the benefit of protecting their community. So you can

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Speaker 3: argue that everyone that gets a vaccine, even if it's

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Speaker 3: only a five percent increase in numbers, is actually better.

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Speaker 3: And why should cost be a barrier when you essentially

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Speaker 3: create infrastructure costs to put funding and billing against the

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Speaker 3: vaccine and the manufacturing of fifteen million for Australians as

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Speaker 3: opposed to getting the government to pay for some and

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Speaker 3: then putting in a tender process and then working out

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Speaker 3: who's got to pay for it and then taking cash

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Speaker 3: at point of sale, all of that sort of stuff,

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Speaker 3: so that the trade off between all of that and

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Speaker 3: the benefit is something that we looked at in Australia,

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Speaker 3: certainly from Umanization Coalition. We put a case that everyone

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Speaker 3: above fifty should have it, and then when you say, well,

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Speaker 3: why can't someone at forty nine have it? And it's like, well,

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Speaker 3: why is it cut off at five? And why is

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Speaker 3: the only person with severe asthma not with mild asthma

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Speaker 3: all of that sort of stuff, and it's like, well,

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Speaker 3: wouldn't be simple if everyone was could access it, And

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Speaker 3: it's just a question of reassuring people that it's available

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Speaker 3: at every corner store, so to speak. And it's an

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Speaker 3: issue of principle that you get it rather than is

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Speaker 3: there a barrier.

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Speaker 1: I like that thinking question here on the text line

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Speaker 1: on the rise of COVID. I've noticed the people have

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Speaker 1: had the flu vacs and shingles all have been sick

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Speaker 1: two weeks after with COVID. The correlation between vaccination and

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Speaker 1: the illness needs to be addressed. It's affecting everyone. Now,

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Speaker 1: what's your response to that.

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Speaker 3: It's a coincidence, not a cause. There's no relationship between

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Speaker 3: one causing the other. Isn't a causal relationship. The shingles

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Speaker 3: vaccine has been very successful in providing twelve or more

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Speaker 3: years protection. It keeps for providing protections for people as

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Speaker 3: they get older. It's got an adjudant which some people

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Speaker 3: find leaves them with a sore arm for a couple

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Speaker 3: of days. So we advise people, just like we do

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Speaker 3: with the manageritist be vaccine in children, is that panadol

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Speaker 3: will help the sore arm. And don't be surprised because

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Speaker 3: it's about thirty forty percent of people will end up

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Speaker 3: with a sore arm afterwards. But that doesn't mean you're

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Speaker 3: more prone to getting COVID and it's a coincidence. So

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Speaker 3: when COVID's around, not a cause.

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Speaker 1: All right, Stephen called off aeries is why does the

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Speaker 1: cost of the RSV vaccine cost so much? Won't that

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Speaker 1: stop people from getting it? Well?

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Speaker 3: RSV vaccine is a new development, so it's only just

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Speaker 3: been released in Australia, been passed through the safety test,

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Speaker 3: so it's a new vaccine. There's three companies who will

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Speaker 3: probably have a marketable RSV vaccine, so this is like

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Speaker 3: new vaccines they come into Australia. They're not subsidized by

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Speaker 3: the government yet because they've only just become available. The

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Speaker 3: cost effectiveness and where the government's going to invest in

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Speaker 3: that is something that owning government goes through to make

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Speaker 3: an assessment at what sort of price. So at the

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Speaker 3: moment it's only available as a private vaccine because the

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Speaker 3: government hasn't decided to fund it through the National Humanization Program.

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Speaker 3: It's a vaccine that will last two years probably, so

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Speaker 3: it's sure one hundred and fifty dollars a year. But

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Speaker 3: the only one that's available so far is the private

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Speaker 3: one and that's for people over sixty five, and so

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Speaker 3: that's all there is at the moment, but if the

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Speaker 3: government decides to fund it, then we think it will

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Speaker 3: change some of the dynamics of RSB. But for the moment,

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Speaker 3: it's just arrived in Australia and there's no government program

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Speaker 3: to fund it.

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Speaker 1: So that's Stevens says, three fifty, but you reckon over

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Speaker 1: two years one hundred and fifty hundred and seventy five,

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Speaker 1: depending what you can get it for per year.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and if someone has a heart attack because they

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Speaker 3: get an RSM infection that puts straight on their heart

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Speaker 3: and they end up in hospital with a heart attack,

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Speaker 3: you think does that cost?

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Speaker 1: It's certainly worth the cost EPs lately, all right, So yeah,

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Speaker 1: your bottom line message Rudder as always would be make

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Speaker 1: sure basic hygiene, wash your hands regularly and often, and

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Speaker 1: get yourself vaccinated.

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Speaker 3: Yep. So all the things we learned during COVID about

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Speaker 3: separating ourselves. That works. That's why we haven't seen these infections.

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Speaker 3: They're coming back with avengers. One because we haven't seen

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Speaker 3: them for a while too because people aren't getting vaccinated,

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Speaker 3: and three because it's winter and then COVID is still around,

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Speaker 3: so we've got to add that to the equation.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and appreciate your time this morning.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you.

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Speaker 1: Thanks man doctor Rod Pierce there from the Immunization Coalition

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Speaker 1: on well the importance of looking after yourself this winter,

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Speaker 1: the effect on hospitals and schools. Blair Boy you heard

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Speaker 1: the Education Union earlier. This is Blair Boy, the Education

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Speaker 1: Minister on two hundred and fifty at least with COVID

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Speaker 1: missing from education from schools, state schools last week, and

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Speaker 1: that number would have been higher because they don't keep

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Speaker 1: record of people away for flu or other illnesses. But

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Speaker 1: this is the Education Minister to.

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Speaker 3: Give a bit of perspective compared to this time last year.

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Speaker 3: I think we're at about two hundred and seventy, so

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Speaker 3: comparable and this week or last week compared the week before,

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Speaker 3: we've seen a small jump.

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Speaker 1: Up and the effects of COVID. Anita Hall is Prospect

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Speaker 1: Primary principal, Deputy deputy principal at Prospect School, Prospect Primary,

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Speaker 1: and on seven News last night she caught the illness.

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Speaker 1: I understand. This is what she had to say.

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Speaker 2: There seems to be a lot going around in the

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Speaker 2: community and I myself had a week and a half.

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Speaker 1: Off, so a lot of doing exactly that and on

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Speaker 1: free flu vaccinations. We spoke about this yesterday and today,

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Speaker 1: as you heard with Rod Pierce, the Health Minister Chris

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Speaker 1: Picton on seven last night. We need to focus on

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Speaker 1: the at risk groups.

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Speaker 3: We did previously have a free flu vaccine program and

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Speaker 3: Nicholas advice to us is that it made no difference whatsoever.

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Speaker 1: Alrighty, so there we go. It's certainly something that's around.

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Speaker 1: Look after yourself, social distancing, all that a meter and

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Speaker 1: a half. Wash your hands regularly to get rid of

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Speaker 1: germs that you might have picked up gripping a handrail

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Speaker 1: or a shopping trolley or something. Escalator, you know how

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Speaker 1: it goes. Use the old sanitizer or go find a

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Speaker 1: tap somewhere with some soap and vaccinations obviously key