WEBVTT - Lidia Thorpe: ‘We need to scrap Closing the Gap’

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<v Speaker 1>From Schwartz Media. I'm Daniel James. This is seven am Everest.

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<v Speaker 1>To close the gap between Indigenous Australians and the rest

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<v Speaker 1>of the community are not on track. They're actually widening.

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<v Speaker 1>More original children are being taken from their families, who

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<v Speaker 1>are ending up in prison, and suicide rates remain devastatingly high.

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<v Speaker 1>Prominister Anthony Albernizi says closing the gap was about acknowledging

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<v Speaker 1>what's working and what isn't and has placed eight hundred

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<v Speaker 1>and forty million dollars in new money to remote communities

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<v Speaker 1>in the Northern Territory. But Independent Senator Lydia Thorpe believes

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<v Speaker 1>the widening gap is by design and close the Gap

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<v Speaker 1>targets should be scrapped altogether today, Senator Thorpe, and while

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<v Speaker 1>she believes the closing the Gap strategy is a distraction

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<v Speaker 1>and what real change would look like. It's Thursday, February thirteen,

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<v Speaker 1>Senator Thoughpe.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you for joining us, my pleasure, Thanks for having me,

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<v Speaker 2>Senator Thought, Thank you, Acting Deputy President. Today's Closing the

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<v Speaker 2>Gap announcement tops off a year of betrayal. Once again,

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<v Speaker 2>Labor is refusing to address the urgent issues facing first

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<v Speaker 2>peoples and confront their own role in harming our communities.

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<v Speaker 2>They're refusing to address the suicide epidemic, child removals and

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<v Speaker 2>incarceration rates, particularly of children.

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<v Speaker 1>In Parliament this week, you said the closing the gap

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<v Speaker 1>numbers reveal a year of betrayal.

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<v Speaker 3>What did you mean by that, Well, it's many years

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<v Speaker 3>of betrayal.

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<v Speaker 2>I think the fact that Howard came up with the

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<v Speaker 2>whole idea says it in itself. The same Prime Minister

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<v Speaker 2>who sent the army into communities based on a lie

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<v Speaker 2>came up with distraction, another distraction for our people, another

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<v Speaker 2>opportunity for politicians to have morning teas on a day

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<v Speaker 2>where they say that they're doing something, where they say

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<v Speaker 2>that they're going to do better, and nothing ever changes.

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<v Speaker 2>It's the same old retric and it's very disappointing when

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<v Speaker 2>we see rates of child removal still escalating. Twenty four

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<v Speaker 2>thousand of our children have been taken away from their

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<v Speaker 2>families and there's no end in sight because the number

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<v Speaker 2>continues to rise. The suicidal rates are been touched personally

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<v Speaker 2>by suicides in my own family of young men in particular,

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<v Speaker 2>there's a sense of hopelessness amongst our people, and each

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<v Speaker 2>year we hear that, you know, nothing's getting better and

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<v Speaker 2>we're going to do better, and we're hearing you. However,

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<v Speaker 2>it's just all talk and Noah.

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<v Speaker 1>Only five of the nineteen Closing the Gap targets are

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<v Speaker 1>on track. In your species said, targets are going backwards intentionally.

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<v Speaker 1>What did you mean by.

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<v Speaker 2>That, Well, there's a real assault on First peoples in

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<v Speaker 2>this country and they're always has been, you know, for

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<v Speaker 2>over two hundred years. There's been many strategies and policies

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<v Speaker 2>that oppress our people, that deny our rights as First

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<v Speaker 2>peoples in this country, and their genocidal acts. They continue

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<v Speaker 2>to perpetrate the same state violence. They're putting money into prisons,

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<v Speaker 2>putting money into police. We see the Closing the Gap

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<v Speaker 2>money that goes to communities, particularly in the Northern Territory,

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<v Speaker 2>where two.

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<v Speaker 3>Hundred millions for the cops.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, the minister makes these deadly announcements on supporting

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<v Speaker 2>communities in the Northern Territory. However she didn't articulate that

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<v Speaker 2>part of that money was two hundred million for the cops. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>we know what money for cops means. It means more

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<v Speaker 2>of our children locked up more of our people locked up,

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<v Speaker 2>and that money should be going to self determined solutions

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<v Speaker 2>within our communities.

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<v Speaker 3>And you know they're being ignored.

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<v Speaker 1>When it comes to things like youth justice. The federal

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<v Speaker 1>government would say that it's responsibility for the states and territories.

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<v Speaker 1>But what more could the federal government be doing to

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<v Speaker 1>intervene in that area.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, they can do lots. They can actually act.

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<v Speaker 2>They have the power to pull the states and territories

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<v Speaker 2>into line, like they have in say the health sector

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<v Speaker 2>and other areas where they hold states and territories to account.

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<v Speaker 3>They have the power to do this. They just choose

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<v Speaker 3>not to do it.

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<v Speaker 2>They're always handballing off to the state and territories to

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<v Speaker 2>not own the issue themselves, which they created. Mind you,

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<v Speaker 2>governments created this problem.

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<v Speaker 3>It's not us. We are not the problem. As Arnie Rosalie.

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<v Speaker 2>Kernel Monks bless Her always said, we are not the problem.

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<v Speaker 2>It's these governments that are creating the gap and not

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<v Speaker 2>listening to our old people. So the federal government can

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<v Speaker 2>take stronger action. They have the constitutional power to set

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<v Speaker 2>standards on the states and territories, as I said, like

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<v Speaker 2>the health area and the disability area, and the education sector,

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<v Speaker 2>and we also need a human rights Act.

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<v Speaker 3>We don't even have a human rights act in this country.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean even you know, King Colonizer's country has a

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<v Speaker 2>human Rights Act. We don't have one here. I also

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<v Speaker 2>have a private senator's bill, and that is on including

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<v Speaker 2>the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples

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<v Speaker 2>into the Human Rights Committee as an instrument that look

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<v Speaker 2>at all the legislation coming through and look for any

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<v Speaker 2>human rights abuses.

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<v Speaker 1>You said that you're putting a bill to the Senate.

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<v Speaker 1>What would you like to see written in legislation and

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<v Speaker 1>parliament right now? Tell us about your bill.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, this bill is to ensure that the United Nations

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<v Speaker 2>Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, something that this

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<v Speaker 2>country is signed up to but ignores. It is an

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<v Speaker 2>instrument that the Human Rights Committee, who looks at most

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<v Speaker 2>legislation in this place, is taken into account when it

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<v Speaker 2>comes to.

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<v Speaker 3>Passing legislation.

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<v Speaker 2>So we want our rights enshrined in to the Human

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<v Speaker 2>Rights Committee to scrutinize the legislation and not have our.

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<v Speaker 3>Rights impeded upon. Now.

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<v Speaker 2>I tried, through another private Senator's bill last year to

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<v Speaker 2>have the United Nations Declaration on the rights of Indigenous

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<v Speaker 2>peoples enshrined in the law of this country. However, Dodson

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<v Speaker 2>and McCarthy and Janas Stewart of the Labor Party and

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<v Speaker 2>their colleagues voted it down.

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<v Speaker 1>Coming up after the break, Why the senator thinks we

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<v Speaker 1>should scrap closing the gap all together?

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<v Speaker 4>There is no ethos more fundamentally Australian than the fair goat,

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<v Speaker 4>and closing the gap is the fairest of all. We

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<v Speaker 4>want First Nations people to have ownership of their futures

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<v Speaker 4>and a stake in the economy. There is the foundation

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<v Speaker 4>on which everything else can be built Lidia.

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<v Speaker 1>This week, the government announced eight hundred and forty million

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<v Speaker 1>dollars to reach close the gap target to the nt

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<v Speaker 1>Prome Minister Anthony Albertezi, Citi's government would invest in a

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<v Speaker 1>range of new measures to help close the gap in

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<v Speaker 1>remote communities. It's including delivering cheaper groceries, upskilling of local

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<v Speaker 1>staff in remote areas, scholarships were indigenous psychologist students. What

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<v Speaker 1>do you make of those particular measures?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, they should be happening anyway.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, really, it's taken you are closing the gap

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<v Speaker 2>speech to get a few crumbs on the table for

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<v Speaker 2>our people.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes they're nice to.

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<v Speaker 2>Have, but they are crumbs on the table when it

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<v Speaker 2>comes to people's lives. Children are being abused in these

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<v Speaker 2>places of detention. They are being locked up at the

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<v Speaker 2>rate of of how many kids can we lock up

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<v Speaker 2>as quickly as we possibly can. So we need real action.

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<v Speaker 2>We need to stop the incarceration. We need to stop

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<v Speaker 2>the removals of our children. We need to end this

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<v Speaker 2>war against our people and stop putting crumbs on the table.

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<v Speaker 3>We want real action.

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<v Speaker 1>In the Productivity Commission's assessment of Closing the Gap, it

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<v Speaker 1>found the government has a persistent government knows best way

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<v Speaker 1>of thinking, recommending more control to local community organizations and

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<v Speaker 1>power sharing and the Minister for Indigenous Australian's Mellandari McCarthy

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<v Speaker 1>is talking about working in partnership with communities and community

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<v Speaker 1>controlled organizations. From your perspective, does that show the government

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<v Speaker 1>grasp the approach you believe that we need.

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<v Speaker 2>No talking to peak bodies is one thing, but rolling

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<v Speaker 2>this leaves up and getting down to every community.

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<v Speaker 3>Every community's needs.

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<v Speaker 2>Are different and it's about ensuring that those communities are

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<v Speaker 2>listened to. And I have concerns about peak bodies. Peak

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<v Speaker 2>bodies don't represent me. Peak bodies are bound by government

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<v Speaker 2>because they won't even challenge the government on incarceration, on

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<v Speaker 2>child removal, on this ongoing genocide. So you know, we

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<v Speaker 2>need to go beyond the peak bodies, which is easy

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<v Speaker 2>for government to just go to one.

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<v Speaker 3>Body that says that they are representative.

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<v Speaker 2>But I can tell you now out there amongst our people,

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<v Speaker 2>they are not happy with peak bodies speaking for us

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<v Speaker 2>because it's not working and it's not delivering in places

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<v Speaker 2>where we absolutely need it.

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<v Speaker 1>So if the government doesn't deal with peak bodies, then

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<v Speaker 1>he does the government deal with and listen to.

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<v Speaker 2>So the way I grew up back in the seventies

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<v Speaker 2>and eighties, we didn't have peak bodies. I mean we

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<v Speaker 2>had the National averagell and Ireland, a health organization which

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<v Speaker 2>seated NATCHO, but that had a different philosophy and more

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<v Speaker 2>self determining philosophy. In fact, that's where pay the Rent

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<v Speaker 2>came from, and it was about being independent from governments.

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<v Speaker 2>It was about building the capacity of Aboriginal health services

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<v Speaker 2>on the ground in communities and not having peak bodies

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<v Speaker 2>deciding for those local communities. Peak bodies competing for funds

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<v Speaker 2>against those smaller communities that are poor. So we need

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<v Speaker 2>to break down the hierarchy. It's not how we operate

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<v Speaker 2>as communities. We need to go out to Lake Tires,

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<v Speaker 2>we need to go to Framlingham, We need to go

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<v Speaker 2>to these communities that are really struggling and don't get a.

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<v Speaker 3>Real say at that peak body level.

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<v Speaker 2>The peak body level is becoming the you know, the

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<v Speaker 2>difference between the haves and have not. If you're not

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<v Speaker 2>in the room, so to speak, or at the table,

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<v Speaker 2>then you don't get to say. And we need to

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<v Speaker 2>decolonize rather than go into this corporatized model which is

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<v Speaker 2>part of an assimilation model.

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<v Speaker 1>The closing the Gap framework has been in place since

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<v Speaker 1>two thousand and eight, which is a long time, and

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<v Speaker 1>we're not on track. Do you see a future where

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<v Speaker 1>we're able to get to a place where our life

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<v Speaker 1>outcomes are equal to the rest of the country.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that we need to get rid of the

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<v Speaker 2>closing the gap targets.

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<v Speaker 3>I think they're just a distraction.

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<v Speaker 2>And as I said, you know, they're an opportunity for

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<v Speaker 2>politicians to have a morning tea. They mean nothing to

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<v Speaker 2>the people on the ground suffering from inhumane conditions in

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<v Speaker 2>this country. We need to scrap closing the gap. We

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<v Speaker 2>need to scrap native title. Native title is another distraction.

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<v Speaker 2>It's another division that goes on amongst our people. And

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<v Speaker 2>it's who puts these things in place. It's old white

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<v Speaker 2>prime ministers men who says this is what's best for you.

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<v Speaker 2>We're going to how it says, let's come up with

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<v Speaker 2>this closing the gap thing so that we can pretend

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<v Speaker 2>that we're doing something. So we need to get rid

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<v Speaker 2>of those racist regimes that continue to oppress us. And

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<v Speaker 2>we need to build the capacity of our own people

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<v Speaker 2>on our own land to self determine their own destiny.

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<v Speaker 2>We need a human rights bill, and we need the

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<v Speaker 2>United Nations Declaration and the rights of Indigenous peoples actioned

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<v Speaker 2>in this country.

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<v Speaker 1>Never a dull moment with you, Senator, Thank you so

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<v Speaker 1>much for your time.

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<v Speaker 3>My pleasure, thanks for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>Also in the news today, Football Australia says they will

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<v Speaker 1>continue to provide support for Sam Kerr moving forward after

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<v Speaker 1>the footballer was found not guilty of racially aggravated assault

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<v Speaker 1>in the UK. However, the body stops short of restoring

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<v Speaker 1>Kerr's position as Matilda's captain. Meanwhile, Kerr's former teammate and

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<v Speaker 1>co captain Kate Gill has spoken out against the trial,

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<v Speaker 1>calling it quote a waste of police and public resources,

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<v Speaker 1>and Clive Palmers United Australia Party will not be on

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<v Speaker 1>any ballots in the upcoming election. The mining magnate has

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<v Speaker 1>lost his high court bid to reregister his party in

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<v Speaker 1>time for the vote. Senator Ralph Babbittt, the only UAP

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<v Speaker 1>candidate to win at the last election, is still midway

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<v Speaker 1>through his six year term and not standing for re election,

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<v Speaker 1>but any new UAP candidates will not be identified with

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<v Speaker 1>the party on ballots come election day. That's all for now.

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<v Speaker 1>Seven a m. Will be back tomorrow. Thanks for listening.