WEBVTT - Who killed And Just Like That?

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<v Speaker 1>Before we begin. This episode has some coarse language, mostly

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<v Speaker 1>because of me from The Australian. This is the weekend

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<v Speaker 1>edition of The Front. I'm Claire Harvey. Three weeks ago,

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<v Speaker 1>our chief sportswriter slash Sex and the City megafan Jess

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<v Speaker 1>Halleran joined me for an episode we called.

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<v Speaker 2>Why is and just like that? So Terrible?

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<v Speaker 1>One week later, show creator Michael Patrick King took to

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<v Speaker 1>Instagram announcing that while writing the final episode of season three,

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<v Speaker 1>it became clear to him that this might be a

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<v Speaker 1>wonderful place to stop. I call bulldust and we just

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<v Speaker 1>had to get Jess back in for some answers to

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<v Speaker 1>the biggest questions of our time? Who really killed this show?

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<v Speaker 1>When did Carrie become so horrible? How could they think

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<v Speaker 1>the main character ending up a lonely widow was a

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<v Speaker 1>satisfying ending?

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<v Speaker 3>The big Christian is who gave Miranda a lobotomy?

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<v Speaker 2>Like and just like that and just like that is over?

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<v Speaker 1>So what are we going to hate watch now? Michael

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<v Speaker 1>Patrick King's statement needs a serious unpacking. We brought our

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<v Speaker 1>producer Jasper leik In to read Michael Patrick King's statement.

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<v Speaker 4>Okay, and just like that The ongoing storytelling of the

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<v Speaker 4>Sex and the City universe is coming to an end.

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<v Speaker 4>While I was writing the last episode of And just

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<v Speaker 4>like that season three, it became clear to me that

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<v Speaker 4>this might be a wonderful place to stop. Along with

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<v Speaker 4>Sarah Jessica Parker, Casey Bloyse, and Sarah Aubrey, we decided

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<v Speaker 4>to end the popular series this year just Remember the

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<v Speaker 4>Popular Series bit with a two part finale and extended

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<v Speaker 4>the original series order from ten episodes to twelve.

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<v Speaker 5>SJ.

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<v Speaker 4>I held off announcing the news until now because we

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<v Speaker 4>didn't want the word final to overshadow the fun of

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<v Speaker 4>watching the season. It's with great gratitude. We thank all

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<v Speaker 4>the viewers who have let these characters into their homes

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<v Speaker 4>and their hearts over these many years.

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<v Speaker 5>Michael Patrick King.

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<v Speaker 4>So I've grabbed a few responses to that post from Instagram.

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<v Speaker 4>The first one is from g SAG Popular Series four

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<v Speaker 4>question marks, OMG, the delusion. Sex and the City was

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<v Speaker 4>a popular series and this is a shadow of that series.

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<v Speaker 5>It's the generic brand.

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<v Speaker 4>It sucked and it only became popular because people will

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<v Speaker 4>hate watching it so they can talk about it on

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<v Speaker 4>their podcasts.

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<v Speaker 2>So true, so true.

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<v Speaker 1>This is a great contribution to debate it's it spawned

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<v Speaker 1>a whole cottage industry of people talking about that terrible,

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<v Speaker 1>including us.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I mean we are living proof of g SAgs

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<v Speaker 4>wisdom right now. Next one is from Justin Dipierro. We

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<v Speaker 4>don't want it to and we want it to be better.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, I truly agree. I would keep watching it.

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<v Speaker 3>I suspect that this came to quite a sharp end.

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<v Speaker 3>The penultimate episode was only twenty eight minutes, like, that

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<v Speaker 3>doesn't make sense to me. And also a lot of

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<v Speaker 3>that was taken up via a weird pis sing and

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<v Speaker 3>Thanksgiving hot so you think it's actually a mercy killing

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<v Speaker 3>someone at HBO has gone absolutely just so much money

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<v Speaker 3>has been spent. The production values on these just enormous,

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<v Speaker 3>which is why it's so easy to hate watch because

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<v Speaker 3>it's so beautiful.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, it has been a flop as well, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>in terms of numbers. It has not delivered the business

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<v Speaker 1>that HBO was hoping.

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<v Speaker 3>No, you can't invest in the story. I am not moved.

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<v Speaker 3>Like when you watch Sex in the City, you would

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<v Speaker 3>be completely moved by an episode. You could be in tears,

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<v Speaker 3>for example, whereas this I cannot There's too many new

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<v Speaker 3>characters I'm not invested enough in. And then Carry's not

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<v Speaker 3>the same. Rand is not the same, Charlotte's not the same.

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<v Speaker 3>They're all like a shell of themselves.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah ways or not themselves. And there's no real drama.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, nobody actually dies apart from a big who

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<v Speaker 1>presumably they just didn't want to pay.

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<v Speaker 3>And he also had the misconduct allegations too, so he's

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<v Speaker 3>voluntarily canceled.

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<v Speaker 2>What did he supposedly do.

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<v Speaker 3>I think it was an allegation of sexual harassment.

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<v Speaker 2>But that's very in character. They should have gone with that.

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<v Speaker 1>In the first episode they describe him as the new

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<v Speaker 1>Donald Trump.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, yes, I think they needed to.

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<v Speaker 1>Kill Harry, Charlotte's husband. He's a drop anyway, the cancer

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<v Speaker 1>could have been terminal.

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<v Speaker 2>Then they would have developed an actual storyline.

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<v Speaker 1>Someone's kid could have moved to Africa instead of just

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<v Speaker 1>becoming a you know, having a boyfriend who was a

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<v Speaker 1>balat answer.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know.

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<v Speaker 1>The plot twists are so low stakes that he just

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<v Speaker 1>takes some lessons from the Days of our Lives or

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<v Speaker 1>something where drama happens, and then people can react to that.

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<v Speaker 1>It's probably hard to be a good actor when you're

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<v Speaker 1>reacting to you can't get a pie order in?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and then this novel about the Woman that's another

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<v Speaker 3>Debbie downer.

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<v Speaker 2>It really was. It's like every time she was typing

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<v Speaker 2>about the woman, I was like, no, no more woman,

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<v Speaker 2>no stop stop.

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<v Speaker 1>Well it was better than the podcast that she had

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<v Speaker 1>for shadyeas that's the people called in for advice about

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<v Speaker 1>sex and stuff.

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<v Speaker 5>Another comment, this one's from mister teddy Bear.

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<v Speaker 2>Girl, is that you?

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<v Speaker 5>That's my fin stup? Now? Can you just release a

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<v Speaker 5>series only about Samantha in London?

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<v Speaker 2>Actually enjoy what ab I call? Oh my god? Hire

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<v Speaker 2>that mister Yeah, only crap. Mister teddy Bear knows what

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<v Speaker 2>he's talking about.

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<v Speaker 3>I feel like Kim Kacharll's got that in her.

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<v Speaker 1>She would like, go sure, yeah. That's the other thing

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<v Speaker 1>about Michael P. King saying I've decided to win this.

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<v Speaker 1>There is no way he would have decided independently to

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<v Speaker 1>win this show because he's never shown any ability to

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<v Speaker 1>resist the money. That's the difference about Kim Cattrall. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>she was like, there's no amount of money you can

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<v Speaker 1>give me, I'm not going to be in this. So

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<v Speaker 1>it's just completely out of character for him. To voluntarily

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<v Speaker 1>stopped stop the party.

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<v Speaker 5>That's a good segue to the next one from Daniel R. Clark.

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<v Speaker 4>MPK has blood on his hands for this. He is

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<v Speaker 4>ultimately accountable for the poor quality of the writing and

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<v Speaker 4>disjointed plot lines. Yes, he was brilliant with SATC, but

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<v Speaker 4>I couldn't help. But wonder if someone else run the

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<v Speaker 4>show it would have been better.

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<v Speaker 5>Wow, blood on his hands.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a little bit much.

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<v Speaker 3>It's pretty heavy, but if you go and listen to

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<v Speaker 3>their podcast you can see they live in a little

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<v Speaker 3>echo chamber where everything they do is spot on.

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<v Speaker 5>One of my favorite scenes of all time, carrying Miranda

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<v Speaker 5>in the kitchen.

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<v Speaker 2>I've just been weeding the entire party. Can we talk

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<v Speaker 2>the hour?

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<v Speaker 1>The Sex and the City premise is that even though

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<v Speaker 1>it's difficult, the main character is still believed in love

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<v Speaker 1>and they still wanted to end up with someone, And

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<v Speaker 1>just like that has ended with Carrie finding peace in

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<v Speaker 1>being by herself, dumping a perfectly good boyfriend in Aiden,

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<v Speaker 1>having a fling with this very unattractive English doorg who

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<v Speaker 1>lives downstairs, and then you know, not surprise, getting dumped

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<v Speaker 1>by him. And then it's like, well, why doesn't the

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<v Speaker 1>world understand that it's okay for me to be alone. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't want to sound like a trad wife here.

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<v Speaker 1>It actually isn't the point of life to ultimately end

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<v Speaker 1>up with someone who loves you and have a fulfilling relationship.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, but is it a statement that it is okay

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<v Speaker 3>in this day and age to be by yourself, that

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<v Speaker 3>your friends are your family and you don't need somebody

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<v Speaker 3>else to build you up. And maybe it is the

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<v Speaker 3>ultimate feminist statement that women can do it all by

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<v Speaker 3>themselves and you can be okay alone. But for me,

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<v Speaker 3>everybody wanted to end up with somebody like this is

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<v Speaker 3>why we watch TV. We want the happy ending. I

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<v Speaker 3>have to quit thinking maybe a man and start accepting.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe just me. Full stop.

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<v Speaker 1>You are so fabulous.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh well that was never in question.

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<v Speaker 1>She doesn't make being alone look that fabulous. She's hanging

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<v Speaker 1>around in this apartment or house by herself. She doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>seem to be doing things that actually make her happy,

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<v Speaker 1>and she doesn't seem happy. She's turned into a complete bitch.

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<v Speaker 1>She's really depressed.

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<v Speaker 2>It is a downer.

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<v Speaker 3>The only thing that leaves you up are the clothes.

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<v Speaker 2>You're like, what's she.

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<v Speaker 3>Wearing, and then if you compare her to Sex and

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<v Speaker 3>the City carry, this is a completely different person. Of course,

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<v Speaker 3>people change in life, right, but I would say most

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<v Speaker 3>of these characters have had a radical personality overhaul.

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<v Speaker 2>I agree.

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<v Speaker 1>The great thing about Carrie was her laugh, her smile.

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<v Speaker 1>She was so infectious and so lighthearted all the time.

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<v Speaker 1>Even when things were difficult, she could pull herself out

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<v Speaker 1>of it.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you know when I first moved to New York

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<v Speaker 2>and I was totally broke, sometimes I would buy Vogue

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<v Speaker 2>instead of dinner. I just felt it fed me more.

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<v Speaker 1>And just like that, the first episode was a funeral,

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<v Speaker 1>and over three seasons we've kind of seen her pull

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<v Speaker 1>herself out of the sadness a little bit, but she still.

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<v Speaker 2>Seems very dark.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you think they know that, the show creators, or

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<v Speaker 1>is it a reflection of where Sarah Jessica Parker maybe

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<v Speaker 1>has ended up that actually she's a bit more grumpy

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<v Speaker 1>than she was when she was thirty five?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you know, I've listened to a lot of the

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<v Speaker 3>Writer's Ram podcasts Michael Patrick King, and he's cast of

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<v Speaker 3>amazing talented writers.

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<v Speaker 2>Look they're not They're not amazing talented writers.

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<v Speaker 3>They're terrible, but there is still sparks of great writing

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<v Speaker 3>through this, but you were so down on it and

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<v Speaker 3>trying to think of.

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<v Speaker 1>One shouldn't have sacked all those people and hied Lena Dunham.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, the quality of the writing you can see, say

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<v Speaker 3>in Seema and Adam's relationship. But the problem is we're

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<v Speaker 3>not watching this for them. So even though you've got

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<v Speaker 3>this sort of beautiful like side romance happening, we don't

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<v Speaker 3>really care for them. I don't care.

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<v Speaker 1>No, they haven't done good enough character development on those people.

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<v Speaker 1>I think, like, we don't know anything about Seema's backstory,

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<v Speaker 1>where did she grow up, how did she make her money,

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<v Speaker 1>why is she single? And Adam's a gardener who just

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<v Speaker 1>suddenly popped up and took his shirt off, and that's

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<v Speaker 1>all they've done to establish him.

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<v Speaker 2>As a character. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>And Lisa Todd Wexley's dad died twice.

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<v Speaker 1>So they introduce her as a character who's mourning her father. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and then three years later, Oh.

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<v Speaker 2>Here's a great plot twist. Let's have her father die.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we'll have a funeral.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>That is inexcusable.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you can sort of see where their heads are at,

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<v Speaker 3>particularly Patrick King, who in one of the podcast episodes

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<v Speaker 3>gets really excited about the fact there's a puppet featured

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<v Speaker 3>in one of these. Yeah, and do you know how

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<v Speaker 3>long it took to make that puppet?

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<v Speaker 2>Please?

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<v Speaker 3>Seven months? It took seven months. I could have made

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<v Speaker 3>that for them. And the other thing that Michael Patrick

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<v Speaker 3>King revealed that it costs so much money it was

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<v Speaker 3>almost like an actor's wage.

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<v Speaker 2>On the series. Well, this is what's happened.

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<v Speaker 1>They've become so rich and privileged, not only the characters,

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<v Speaker 1>but the actors and producers. I think that they've completely

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<v Speaker 1>lost touch with what ordinary people think about. More of

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<v Speaker 1>my chat with Jess after the break you said earlier

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<v Speaker 1>you didn't think that, and just like that has tarnished

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<v Speaker 1>the legacy of sex in the City. No, I'm interested

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<v Speaker 1>in why not, because frankly, I really wondered about the

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<v Speaker 1>legacy of Star Wars when I saw Judge O binks.

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<v Speaker 2>It is possible to wreck your original creation. What comes next?

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<v Speaker 1>You know?

0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:35.600
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, but I think these two they are completely

0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:38.480
<v Speaker 3>different worlds. They stucked it up so badly that it

0:12:38.600 --> 0:12:42.120
<v Speaker 3>actually doesn't resemble really anything of the original aside from

0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:42.600
<v Speaker 3>the set.

0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:44.880
<v Speaker 1>One of the people who's missing from and just like

0:12:44.920 --> 0:12:48.120
<v Speaker 1>that is Darren Starr, who created the original Sex in

0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:51.199
<v Speaker 1>the City. He was listed as the creator before that.

0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:53.520
<v Speaker 1>He had created Beverly Hills nine O two one zero

0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:57.800
<v Speaker 1>and Noah's Place, which were era defining shows in their time.

0:12:58.280 --> 0:13:00.560
<v Speaker 1>He's not involved in d Just like that, he's off

0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:05.080
<v Speaker 1>making Emily in Paris, which does seem to have connected

0:13:05.160 --> 0:13:08.240
<v Speaker 1>with young people today in the way that the other

0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:09.400
<v Speaker 1>shows did. Yeah.

0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:12.640
<v Speaker 3>I think Darren Starr is a key creative that is

0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:15.360
<v Speaker 3>missing from this franchise. And so is pat Field. Like

0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:19.240
<v Speaker 3>Patricia Field was the power behind Carries Close. All the

0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:21.679
<v Speaker 3>main characters closed, I should say, And so having these

0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:25.520
<v Speaker 3>two creatives missing from this show, I think it's cost them.

0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:29.040
<v Speaker 3>But something else has gone wrong. I really feel like

0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:34.120
<v Speaker 3>there's an opportunity here for a really curious investigative journalist

0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:37.000
<v Speaker 3>to do a deep dive on why exactly I went wrong.

0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:40.720
<v Speaker 3>We've got Heavily Thomas, Yeah, I think we should get Heaviier.

0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:42.840
<v Speaker 3>He's had enough murders.

0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:43.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:47.760
<v Speaker 1>Who killed Sex and the City? Oh yeah, yeah. Since

0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:50.240
<v Speaker 1>we last talked about it, it's been killed off. I

0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:52.160
<v Speaker 1>think you are largely responsible for that.

0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:54.800
<v Speaker 2>No, it's you I feel like it's you.

0:13:56.080 --> 0:13:58.760
<v Speaker 1>So given that you were hate watching it, you admitted

0:13:58.760 --> 0:14:00.680
<v Speaker 1>that you were hate watching it, you're glad to see

0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:01.000
<v Speaker 1>it going.

0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:04.440
<v Speaker 3>No, of course not. It's like something you can put

0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:07.080
<v Speaker 3>on in the background and fall asleep or.

0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:11.360
<v Speaker 2>Phone or and put.

0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:13.000
<v Speaker 3>Your head up every now and then go oh lista.

0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:17.440
<v Speaker 3>Todd Wexley looks amazing. The only winner in all this

0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:21.920
<v Speaker 3>is Kim Kittrell. After the second movie, she was like,

0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:26.040
<v Speaker 3>it's over. It's done. Even though we've enjoyed hate watching it,

0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:29.120
<v Speaker 3>she understood that it couldn't go on.

0:14:30.160 --> 0:14:34.040
<v Speaker 2>What are we going to hate watch now? Emily in Paris?

0:14:34.480 --> 0:14:36.120
<v Speaker 2>Emily in Paris is what it is?

0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:36.520
<v Speaker 1>Right?

0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:37.040
<v Speaker 2>It is.

0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:41.080
<v Speaker 3>It's just silly. It's amazing, incredibly stupid. You know, you

0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:45.040
<v Speaker 3>get to see Patricia Field's amazing work. But I don't

0:14:45.080 --> 0:14:48.480
<v Speaker 3>know what we call I don't know, maybe real Housewives.

0:14:49.320 --> 0:14:59.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, who'll take it? Yeah.

0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:03.480
<v Speaker 1>Jess Hallerin is The Australian's chief sports writer and she

0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:07.160
<v Speaker 1>just won a LOGI for her amazing documentary about Tennis

0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:10.760
<v Speaker 1>Clayer Yolana Dokitch. You can read Jess's work anytime at

0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:14.480
<v Speaker 1>the Australian dot com dot au to hear more of Jess.

0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:15.640
<v Speaker 2>Check out Head.

0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:19.200
<v Speaker 1>Noise, an award winning podcast produced by US The Australian,

0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:23.280
<v Speaker 1>available by searching Head Noise wherever you listen to podcasts.

0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:26.640
<v Speaker 1>This episode of the Front was hosted by me Claire

0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:29.840
<v Speaker 1>Harvey and produced by Jasper Leek, who edited the episode

0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:32.840
<v Speaker 1>and also wrote our theme. Thanks for joining us on

0:15:32.880 --> 0:15:36.160
<v Speaker 1>the Front this week. Our team also includes Kristin Amiot,

0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:40.080
<v Speaker 1>Leat Sammaglu, Tiffany Dimack, Joshua Burton and Stephanie Coombs.