Speaker 1: I'll get a welcome to another and storm on the show.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of we probably should have started this
Speaker 1: five minutes ago, because last five minutes have been wildly inappropriate,
Speaker 1: moderately entertaining, and pretty fucking funny, and Tiff and Jody
Speaker 1: leading the funny charge. We'll start with curly hair Hi, Tiff, Hi,
Speaker 1: curly soon yes? And Dr Jody Hi, doc.
Speaker 2: Hey tif we were just let's continue because I think
Speaker 2: this is interesting.
Speaker 3: Well, not the part exactly where we left off.
Speaker 1: Not not that bit because that would although you did
Speaker 1: mention some I mentioned a thing that I imagine would
Speaker 1: be excruciating and that some people might like that. Anyway,
Speaker 1: we're talking about how painful well a PhD is, But
Speaker 1: I guess it's not. It's all relative, isn't it. But
Speaker 1: and how many people say did they say the same
Speaker 1: to you, Jody? Like you enjoying it? Is it fun?
Speaker 1: Are you? You know? Because I get a bit of that,
Speaker 1: and you don't want to be negative, but it's like,
Speaker 1: I'm glad I'm doing it, and it's worthwhile and it's
Speaker 1: it's kind of rewarding, kind of not but but it's
Speaker 1: certainly not enjoyable, not for most people anyway, is it.
Speaker 2: Look, it's it is just relentless hard work, disappointment, starting over, rethinking.
Speaker 2: And I did it full time, so it was a
Speaker 2: little bit different. So I was only really surrounded by
Speaker 2: other people who were.
Speaker 3: Doing similar things.
Speaker 2: And nobody was asking anybody if they're enjoying it because
Speaker 2: they kind of knew the answer. But a lot of
Speaker 2: tears just you for me, I don't know about you,
Speaker 2: and just kind of expectations and uncertainty, and yeah, that's it's.
Speaker 3: It's hard.
Speaker 2: It's a hard, hard road and that what that's what
Speaker 2: makes it so sweet when you get there.
Speaker 3: But it's it's a lot of hard work ups.
Speaker 1: So yeah, and if you've decided it's probably not a
Speaker 1: route you're going to take. No.
Speaker 4: I sometimes I think, gee, I should get smarter and
Speaker 4: I should study something, and then I look over my
Speaker 4: shoulder at you and.
Speaker 2: Go fuck that.
Speaker 1: But as I said to you before we started rolling,
Speaker 1: like I mean, I don't mean this to sound offensive
Speaker 1: to academics, because some academics are brilliant and beautiful and amazing,
Speaker 1: But getting a PhD doesn't mean you're smart necessarily. I
Speaker 1: think it depends how you define smart, and you know
Speaker 1: the context. And like I've spoken many times about the Crab,
Speaker 1: my training partner who finished school I think year ten
Speaker 1: or eleven, and I reckon in about ninety seven out
Speaker 1: of one hundred situations, the crab is smarter than me.
Speaker 1: You know, he's smart. He's just practically smart, you know.
Speaker 1: And he can just figure shit out that I can't
Speaker 1: figure out. You know. It's like intelligence is really fluid,
Speaker 1: it's dynamic. It's not like if you've got a kind
Speaker 1: of social and emotional and situational intelligence that you can't
Speaker 1: even teach people like your ability to do to and
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to piss in your pocket, but to
Speaker 1: start a podcast from scratch, and I mean this respectfully,
Speaker 1: with no profile, nobody knew who the fuck you were.
Speaker 1: You taught yourself how to be a podcaster, how to produce,
Speaker 1: how to edit, how to do all the video stuff,
Speaker 1: all the audio stuff, how to do the pr stuff,
Speaker 1: how to build a brand. You didn't have a cheer squad,
Speaker 1: you didn't have anyone helping you. Now, I don't know,
Speaker 1: Bullpark a thousand episodes in, you've got sponsors, You're on Nova.
Speaker 1: Like that takes not only does that take talent and creativity.
Speaker 1: But that's a kind of intelligence that a lot of
Speaker 1: people don't have and will never have.
Speaker 4: It's really interesting, as you know, I'm doing a course
Speaker 4: at the moment, and we're like feeling how I feel.
Speaker 4: Sometimes I've been challenged think differently, or processed inly or
Speaker 4: categorize my thoughts, and I just get these moments where
Speaker 4: I would reflect back to school and go, well, I
Speaker 4: just wouldn't. I would just turf that subject. I would
Speaker 4: either do it or I wouldn't back then. And if
Speaker 4: I was back then right now, not paying for this course,
Speaker 4: in this thing I want to do, I just wouldn't
Speaker 4: do it. But I'm stuck in this space of like, well,
Speaker 4: you have to suck it up and you have to
Speaker 4: find a way if.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you're doing it. You know, I think like
Speaker 1: I think when we talk in our culture about our
Speaker 1: society about intelligence, we're talking about a specific kind of
Speaker 1: cognitive capacity or intellectual capacity, which is, oh, she's good
Speaker 1: at school, she's getting marks, she's she's scored one hundred
Speaker 1: and thirty five, she's borderline mensa, she's on an IQ test.
Speaker 1: You know. It's like, and that's not to say they're
Speaker 1: not smart. It's to say that by using this protocol
Speaker 1: or this measure or this metric, they score highly. Now
Speaker 1: if we use another metric, they won't score highly. But
Speaker 1: you're still not going to say they're stupid, do you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like, I know lots of academics
Speaker 1: who would have I'm sure they would have an IQ
Speaker 1: somewhere around one point, which is very, very high. But
Speaker 1: you throw them a ball that hits them in the face,
Speaker 1: you give them a crying baby. They don't know what
Speaker 1: the fuck to do. You tell them, you go, just
Speaker 1: stand in front of this group and keep everyone entertained
Speaker 1: for four minutes. I'll be back. They capitulate, you know,
Speaker 1: they build a business, they don't know where to start.
Speaker 1: You say, solve this kind of problem. They don't know
Speaker 1: how to. And it's not that they're dumb. It's just
Speaker 1: that intelligence is quite often situation and task and context dependent,
Speaker 1: I think, doctor Jody, I agree.
Speaker 2: And it's if you care enough about something and you're
Speaker 2: willing to learn and be a beginner and start at
Speaker 2: the beginning and develop the skills and feel a bit,
Speaker 2: you know, stupid. Sometimes it's a very uncomfortable place to
Speaker 2: sit between kind of the I'm here and I want
Speaker 2: to be there, and I'm in this middle. But I
Speaker 2: really think that when you're passionate about something, you've got
Speaker 2: the perseverance that you know, your book smarts aren't as important.
Speaker 2: It's okay, how willing are you to learn? How hard
Speaker 2: are you going to work for it? How much do
Speaker 2: you want it.
Speaker 3: That you know?
Speaker 2: I always look at my brother and me, and and
Speaker 2: now I'm questioning was it my brother? And I know
Speaker 2: it's my brother and me myself, I don't know. Grammar's
Speaker 2: not my I mean, I've written two books. Grammar should
Speaker 2: be my strength. I overthink that anyway.
Speaker 3: Getting back to it, I.
Speaker 1: Love watching you go down the rabbit hole at your own.
Speaker 2: My brother Adam is like highly intelligent, like PhD, two masters, physics, maths, finance, analytics,
Speaker 2: all that kind of stuff, and it always seemed so
Speaker 2: easy for him. I always did well at school, but
Speaker 2: I always worked really really.
Speaker 3: Hard to do well.
Speaker 2: And I think to what you were saying Craig before,
Speaker 2: about you know, we have strengths in different areas of
Speaker 2: our life. I mean, I was book smart, but I
Speaker 2: wasn't street smart. I could walk into a social setting, though,
Speaker 2: and be very, very comfortable and have those kind of
Speaker 2: that social intelligence, and not everybody you know has that,
Speaker 2: and that's something that other people have to work harder towards.
Speaker 2: So we've all got our strengths, we've all got our weaknesses,
Speaker 2: and I really believe we can improve where we want
Speaker 2: to put the effort in.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think also we confuse acquiring knowledge with becoming smarter.
Speaker 1: So I just no more like, I've acquired lots of
Speaker 1: knowledge in the last five and a half years, but
Speaker 1: I'm not smarter. Inherently smarter. I don't have a higher IQ.
Speaker 1: I'm not innately more clever or more intelligent than I
Speaker 1: was in twenty nineteen when I started. I would suspect
Speaker 1: I probably test exactly the same if we were going
Speaker 1: to test my IQ. But I have acquired knowledge now.
Speaker 1: The thing is that anyone can acquire knowledge. If you
Speaker 1: want to acquire you can figure out. Like people think
Speaker 1: I'm being disingenuous when I say you don't need to
Speaker 1: be a genius to do a PhD. You need to
Speaker 1: be you need to have some intelligence, but you need
Speaker 1: to have clarity and a work ethic, and you need
Speaker 1: to be able to ask good questions. Learn new things,
Speaker 1: you need to be very organized, very structured, very accountabile, accountable.
Speaker 1: But do you need to be a genius. You definitely don't.
Speaker 1: And then there are other people who would have a
Speaker 1: much higher IQ than me who are definitely not suited
Speaker 1: to doing academia.
Speaker 3: What's they're smart?
Speaker 4: What's the trait that is crucial for someone doing a
Speaker 4: PhD that someone just learning existing knowledge doesn't need?
Speaker 1: Uh say that again?
Speaker 3: What's the what is the trait or traits?
Speaker 1: Yeah? So I think because like when you're just freestyling
Speaker 1: like you and you're learning shit that you're interested in,
Speaker 1: I mean, you are doing a course at the moment,
Speaker 1: which is structured, which is good. But when you're doing
Speaker 1: a PhD within you know, a very structured organization, and
Speaker 1: there are rules and there are protocols, there's accountability, and
Speaker 1: you have to write a certain way and present you know,
Speaker 1: like all of the things. There are milestones that I
Speaker 1: need to achieve. And so there's very little flexibility within
Speaker 1: that model of learning, very little flexibility. There's some, but
Speaker 1: not a lot. And also you essentially have academic bosses
Speaker 1: who go, no, don't do that, do this, which academic
Speaker 1: supervisors and thank God for them, because in this environment,
Speaker 1: with this task, you know, they're infinitely smarter than me,
Speaker 1: and so I need them. But I think the beauty
Speaker 1: of instinctive, intuitive, curiosity driven learning is that you can go,
Speaker 1: you know what, I want to learn how to fucking
Speaker 1: build a bamboo hut today, and you can know in
Speaker 1: a day and you can start building tomorrow. Or you
Speaker 1: can go, I want to understan what the like I
Speaker 1: read this thing yesterday or I came across this thing
Speaker 1: and that said, you know how, we talk about the
Speaker 1: mind of consciousness and awareness and the conscious mind the
Speaker 1: subconscious mind, and it suggested that maybe consciousness doesn't live
Speaker 1: in the mind, but rather consciousness lives outside the mind,
Speaker 1: and it's there for us to access whenever we want.
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, fuck, I've got to open that door.
Speaker 1: I don't have time this week. But I'm like, like, so,
Speaker 1: it's not the consciousness. It's not that I'm becoming conscious,
Speaker 1: It's that I have the ability. And this is in
Speaker 1: the spiritual space to access consciousness, which is a kind
Speaker 1: of intelligence and an awareness and a knowing and a
Speaker 1: whatever wisdom that exists despite me and apart from me,
Speaker 1: and maybe all of us humans have the ability to
Speaker 1: tap into that if we are in the right place.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, so, for example, with that which I
Speaker 1: got nothing to do with my PhD, I literally took
Speaker 1: a screenshot of that and I went on the weekend,
Speaker 1: I'm going to go down this rabbit hole. I don't
Speaker 1: have time today, and that's what I do. And I've
Speaker 1: spent most of my life learning intuitively and instinctively, driven
Speaker 1: by curiosity, not I need to have a bit of paper,
Speaker 1: you know, And I think I think on a practical level,
Speaker 1: for what you want to do, be, create, achieve tif
Speaker 1: I don't know, Like, if you wanted to do it,
Speaker 1: I think that would be great. But I don't think
Speaker 1: you need it. I don't think you I don't think
Speaker 1: I don't especially now, I don't think most people. Of course,
Speaker 1: there are some professions, of course, but I think for
Speaker 1: a lot of professions and a lot of people, you
Speaker 1: don't need a degree anymore. You know, you don't need it.
Speaker 1: You know. If you're going to be a neurosurgeon, probably good,
Speaker 1: you know, you know, or you're going to be a
Speaker 1: physicist or something, probably good. But you know, like I
Speaker 1: think that, yeah, Jode, I feel like I've hijacked your show.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, you has like what's going on?
Speaker 1: Sorry, we want dealing go on. When you're dealing with people, though,
Speaker 1: a lot of what you deal with it's not anything
Speaker 1: you learned at UNI, right, it's all just intuitive, instinctive, experiential.
Speaker 3: Oh so much. And it's so interesting.
Speaker 2: Somebody wrote on my LinkedIn the other day when I
Speaker 2: connected with and They're like, oh, You've got an interesting
Speaker 2: mix of kind of skills and experience you bring to
Speaker 2: your role.
Speaker 3: And I'm like, yep, I do. Yeah, so true.
Speaker 2: And I guess when I look at what I do
Speaker 2: now versus kind of where I started, there's so much crossover.
Speaker 2: Like there's a lot of crossover from the point of
Speaker 2: view that I'm still and forever will be an educator
Speaker 2: at heart, Like I love empowering people with knowledge but
Speaker 2: also helping them to do something with it. But yeah,
Speaker 2: in terms of kind of like content knowledge other than
Speaker 2: learning about the nervous system. When I did my undergraduate degree,
Speaker 2: my honors and my PhD were in a separate realm
Speaker 2: of science to the area that I work in. But
Speaker 2: it feels like this daisy chain of kind of learning
Speaker 2: and experiences and skills that have all blended to bring
Speaker 2: me kind of to where I am.
Speaker 3: And I didn't love everything I did.
Speaker 2: I like most people, and you know, certainly when I
Speaker 2: was doing my PhD. I mean there were times I've
Speaker 2: never been this sort of student. But there are times
Speaker 2: when I'd literally fold my arms on my desk and
Speaker 2: put my head down and have a little nap.
Speaker 3: My head was just bursting with.
Speaker 2: Journal articles and ideas and just overload and overwhelmed.
Speaker 3: And but yeah, I think.
Speaker 2: The skills that you learn and what you learn about
Speaker 2: yourself and how that brings you closer to knowing what
Speaker 2: your purpose is and what you know really lights you up,
Speaker 2: and how you can help others.
Speaker 3: Nothing. I don't believe anything's ever wasted.
Speaker 1: Did either of you have a teacher at school that
Speaker 1: you fucking loved? Jody? Who was yours? Tiff, you tell
Speaker 1: me in a minute, Jodi who was yours?
Speaker 2: And why I loved mister Dixon, not from any other
Speaker 2: for any other reason, from academic standing. So Paul Dixon
Speaker 2: was our chemistry teacher in year twelve, and I did science.
Speaker 2: I did physics and kim and pe and English and maths.
Speaker 2: And by contrast, my physics teacher was really really smart,
Speaker 2: you know, classic case of totally book smart. Couldn't really
Speaker 2: convey what he wanted to convey through his classes, but
Speaker 2: mister Dixon just made it so interesting and we just
Speaker 2: felt so supported comfortable asking questions. When I was at
Speaker 2: UNI doing chemistry, Peter and my husband and his mates
Speaker 2: at the back and they called me question girl.
Speaker 3: That was my nickname.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: But yeah, he was just so inspiring and just I
Speaker 2: understood it because of the way he taught. He was young,
Speaker 2: he was new to teaching. He was really passionate, and
Speaker 2: it inspired me to go off and major in it
Speaker 2: with my university studies.
Speaker 3: So, yeah, he was awesome.
Speaker 2: I got to see him when I was down presenting
Speaker 2: at a school in Tasmania. He came along to listen,
Speaker 2: so it was nice to reconnect.
Speaker 1: Isn't it interesting? So he was inspirational, you liked him.
Speaker 1: There was a connection. Like all of the things that
Speaker 1: made him or most of the things that made him
Speaker 1: a great teacher, had nothing to do with which course
Speaker 1: he did, which university went to, what Mark's he got.
Speaker 1: It was all about him as a human, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1: That's it. That's what people.
Speaker 4: Tiff my homeroom teacher from year seventy, year ten, missus McCullough.
Speaker 4: And she's still on my Facebook and comments every now
Speaker 4: and then.
Speaker 3: And I love that. I mayne when you realize, when you're.
Speaker 4: Grown up, oh, those teachers they're human.
Speaker 3: People.
Speaker 4: They have feelings and lives and they're the same as
Speaker 4: every one else.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, it's such a revelation.
Speaker 1: I used to I had this teacher in year eight
Speaker 1: called mister Ryan, and I've spoken about him a few times. Fuck,
Speaker 1: I love this man. And you know, we all our
Speaker 1: teachers were like, you know, they were fine. But it
Speaker 1: was a pretty strict school. It was an all boys school.
Speaker 1: We had to wear full on uniforms, blazer's jacket shirts, ties,
Speaker 1: we had uniform inspections, we had you had to have
Speaker 1: polished shoes. It was a little bit not totally, but
Speaker 1: a tiny bit military compared to what we have now.
Speaker 1: It was like very military. But so mister Ryan was
Speaker 1: a police officer and he got shot in a leg.
Speaker 1: And because year eight boys are not that compassionate, we
Speaker 1: used to call him the dark because he walked like
Speaker 1: a duck, right, because he'd been shot like so much compassion.
Speaker 1: But he was such a good human being. And if
Speaker 1: I was mucking around, which was you know, every day,
Speaker 1: and he'd walk up and he'd just look in my
Speaker 1: face and you go, harper. I go, yes, sir, he
Speaker 1: don't be a dickhead. I go, yes, sir.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 1: But I loved it that he said to me, don't
Speaker 1: be a dickhead, like because I was being a dickhead.
Speaker 1: He knew how to connect to me and he's like,
Speaker 1: you're being a dickhead, aren't you. I go I am.
Speaker 1: He goes, don't be a dickhead. I'm like, yes, sir.
Speaker 2: That was it.
Speaker 1: And he would just you know, he'd lean in and
Speaker 1: he'd say things, but he actually really cared about It's
Speaker 1: all boys, right, He really cared about all of us.
Speaker 1: And he was probably the least experienced teacher. I think
Speaker 1: he was like one. So he got injured, then he
Speaker 1: retrained as a teacher and he was probably first or
Speaker 1: second year. But he was a man's man, right, So
Speaker 1: there was no bookshit, there was no fluffy anything. But
Speaker 1: I look back at him and I think, why did
Speaker 1: he have an impact on me? And it was more
Speaker 1: about just how he treated me as a human it
Speaker 1: wasn't like, oh, he was just the most brilliant academic,
Speaker 1: or he was this or that. You know. And one
Speaker 1: of the funny things is or one of the things
Speaker 1: that maybe people don't think about like companies now when
Speaker 1: they're because I talk to lots of bosses, lots of
Speaker 1: leaders managers in the corporate space, and I ask them, what, like,
Speaker 1: when you're bringing people on board, what do you want?
Speaker 1: And of course they want skills and squat quals and experience,
Speaker 1: but more and more they want social intelligence. They want
Speaker 1: emotional intelligence, and they want a thing called a which
Speaker 1: some people call a Q, which is adaptability quotient, so
Speaker 1: your ability to adapt right, So social intelligence, emotional intelligence,
Speaker 1: and an ability to be able to be fluid and
Speaker 1: adaptable in a business or an organization or a team
Speaker 1: that's dynamic, which is all businesses and organizations. And you know,
Speaker 1: if you come in and you can only do things
Speaker 1: one way, you're in trouble, you know. So it's you know,
Speaker 1: intelligence is fluid, performance is fluid. You know, it's situation
Speaker 1: and context dependent. I think doc oh totally.
Speaker 2: And you know, when it comes to anxiety and talking
Speaker 2: to parents about anxious kids and when parents and kids
Speaker 2: show up to a therapy session and the parents feel like, well,
Speaker 2: you know, I really want I would really love the
Speaker 2: outcome of this to be that my child will do
Speaker 2: a B or C. And the child is not interested
Speaker 2: in a B or C. Then there's no willingness. There's
Speaker 2: no willingness. There, there's no buying, there's no skin in
Speaker 2: the game, there's no interest.
Speaker 3: So they might be well and truly able to do D, E,
Speaker 3: and F.
Speaker 2: And so I think, you know, it's ultimately when we
Speaker 2: passionate about something and you know, like you can learn
Speaker 2: the knowledge, and like you said beforehaps so readily available
Speaker 2: for us. You can learn anything that you would learn
Speaker 2: in a degree online, you know, with access to information
Speaker 2: the way we have it. But you know, when it
Speaker 2: comes to a job, having those things that you said before,
Speaker 2: I know employees people, and I have friends that employ people,
Speaker 2: and you just know that the things they're looking for
Speaker 2: is how is this person going to fit in the workplace?
Speaker 2: You know, do they have whatever they need to kind
Speaker 2: of tick the boxes, but anything else they haven't quite gotten.
Speaker 2: The skills department they can learn, but you can't teach
Speaker 2: somebody to be socially and emotionally intelligent quickly, and that's
Speaker 2: not really the job of a workplace. So yeah, I
Speaker 2: think I think it's I don't think we should really
Speaker 2: be you know, I don't say to my kids you're.
Speaker 3: Smart or you're not, or you know.
Speaker 2: I love to talk to people about their capacity for learning,
Speaker 2: and that's really we've all got that, And I think
Speaker 2: it's a real closed door if somebody and when somebody
Speaker 2: does believe.
Speaker 3: They're smart or not.
Speaker 2: We know this in kids, when they get an idea
Speaker 2: in their mind that oh, I'm not good at maths,
Speaker 2: I'm not smart at mass then that becomes a self
Speaker 2: fulfilling prophecy for them with their academics. And so that's
Speaker 2: that coming around to that growth mindset that I have
Speaker 2: the capacity to learn when I apply myself, but we
Speaker 2: don't want to apply ourself to stuff we're not interested in.
Speaker 3: I think that's got to really play into it.
Speaker 1: When parents come along to you with their anxious kids
Speaker 1: and they have certain expectations of how they want the
Speaker 1: kids to be and what they want the kids to
Speaker 1: be interested in and doing, do you ever think, uh,
Speaker 1: actually don't think they're that's the right way to think about, Like,
Speaker 1: do you sometimes have to work first on the parent
Speaker 1: and then the kid.
Speaker 2: I think that when it comes to anxious kids, it's
Speaker 2: the very best place to start because often anxious kids
Speaker 2: are in families with anxious parents. And what we need
Speaker 2: is first of all, parents who can look after themselves
Speaker 2: and settle their own stress and anxiety, because when you've
Speaker 2: got a child that's struggling, it's very, very stressful, and
Speaker 2: then it's easy to get kind of the blinkers on
Speaker 2: and become have a very narrow view about what success
Speaker 2: could look like. So yeah, working with parents like this,
Speaker 2: so much actual research and science to show that there
Speaker 2: are a lot of things parents can do about the
Speaker 2: way that they approach situations and support what they say,
Speaker 2: what they do and don't do, what they allow and
Speaker 2: don't allow that can be transformative for children's anxiety when
Speaker 2: the child is not even involved in any of the change,
Speaker 2: not directly anyway.
Speaker 1: One of the things that I was I don't know
Speaker 1: if it's fortunate enough is the right term, but to observe,
Speaker 1: you know, owning gyms for a long time is we
Speaker 1: would have you know, parents come in and train with
Speaker 1: me and my team, right, and we had I mean
Speaker 1: thousands of clients over the years, thousands and hundreds of trainers,
Speaker 1: so there's a lot of people through the doors over
Speaker 1: a long period of time. And what we would see
Speaker 1: is generational training. So we'd often see grandma and the
Speaker 1: daughter and the granddaughter in the same joint.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 1: Sometimes training, you know, awesome, But what I saw many
Speaker 1: times was mum or dad who would have certain psychological
Speaker 1: or emotional issues, right, and then on meet the kid
Speaker 1: and I'd go, oh, I know why you are the
Speaker 1: way you are because mom or dad. It's like, I think, ironically,
Speaker 1: sometimes the source of anxiety for the kid is the
Speaker 1: fucking parent.
Speaker 3: Look, it's so contagious.
Speaker 2: It is like we it's palpable sometimes and even like
Speaker 2: my daughter's home this afternoon, she's not feeling well. But
Speaker 2: the other day I came in and I jam packed
Speaker 2: too much in the day, and I had twenty minutes
Speaker 2: at home before I was going out for dinner with friends,
Speaker 2: and I had a lot to try to accomplish in
Speaker 2: that time, and.
Speaker 3: I asked her to help, and.
Speaker 2: She just said, hey, Mum, you making me stressed because
Speaker 2: you're so stressed. And it was so good that she
Speaker 2: was able to say that and I was like, I know, actually, yes,
Speaker 2: let me just stop for a minute.
Speaker 3: And you know, I just owned it.
Speaker 2: I was like, absolutely, but this is how I'm feeling,
Speaker 2: this is why, this is what will help.
Speaker 3: But she just picked it up and called it.
Speaker 2: And I don't think often when we're feeling that way,
Speaker 2: we're so inwardly focused about what our needs are and
Speaker 2: what we're trying to do or what we haven't got done,
Speaker 2: that we forget how impactful our nervous system state is
Speaker 2: on those people in our home roops. You know, I
Speaker 2: grew up in a home with a mom with an
Speaker 2: undiagnosed anxiety disorder, and I walked on eggshells. I was
Speaker 2: anxious about, you know, doing the wrong thing. And so
Speaker 2: even though I had the genetic predisposition for it, and
Speaker 2: there were other triggers in my life that kind of
Speaker 2: set me down the road to my own anxiety disorder.
Speaker 2: That that, you know, that was that was tough. But
Speaker 2: the parents aren't causing the anxiety disorders in their children.
Speaker 2: But we've got a really powerful role that we can
Speaker 2: play by taking really good care of ourselves and helping
Speaker 2: our children learn to regulate. That's how kids learn to
Speaker 2: regulate themselves is through a regulated parent. Unfortunately, there's a
Speaker 2: lot of stress people at the moment for lots of
Speaker 2: different reasons. So it's not it's not easy, but it's
Speaker 2: important to know that we can make a powerful difference
Speaker 2: if we if we if we can regularly kind of
Speaker 2: settle our nervous system and you know, show up in
Speaker 2: our homes a little bit less fired up than we
Speaker 2: might usually do.
Speaker 1: Without mentioning what they may or may not be, if
Speaker 1: there are any are there certain things that are more
Speaker 1: likely to trigger you, like you know, specific events happening,
Speaker 1: things that like when that happens you you can momentarily
Speaker 1: lose your shit.
Speaker 3: Yeah, totally. And I'm so happy to say, like one
Speaker 3: of the things.
Speaker 2: Like from little things like metal on metal, well really
Speaker 2: activate my nervous system. And so if there happens to
Speaker 2: be a fork stuck in a knife, you know that,
Speaker 2: or somebody is cutting on something metal, that will really
Speaker 2: grape me.
Speaker 3: But that's just very temporary.
Speaker 2: If I ever feel like it's so interesting because you know,
Speaker 2: the brain, the part of the brain that detects threat
Speaker 2: is hyper sensitive in people with an anxiety disorder. And
Speaker 2: so if I find myself in a space where I
Speaker 2: not from a conscious point of view, but I could
Speaker 2: be almost trapped. For example, like you won't find me going.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Just sometimes if I'm in a particular room I don't know,
Speaker 2: like and there's a lot of people in there, I
Speaker 2: don't know, it will just be triggering for me because
Speaker 2: my brain is probably thinking, well, how do you get out,
Speaker 2: like if something goes wrong. It's just always trying to
Speaker 2: protect me and other things that cause me a lot
Speaker 2: of anxieties.
Speaker 3: Just when.
Speaker 2: I am finding that I've got too many competing priorities
Speaker 2: and I'm so much better at managing it now, and
Speaker 2: I'm just like, right, what is most important? I know
Speaker 2: how to recognize it. I'll ground myself if I don't
Speaker 2: alcohol anymore because that would cause anxiety. And if I
Speaker 2: do not sleep well, I need I need to really
Speaker 2: prioritize my sleep. Then that that can make me so
Speaker 2: much more sensitive. Some might say grumpy and irritable as well.
Speaker 1: Oh that's funny, that's funny. I was just trying to
Speaker 1: find something which I'm not doing a very good job
Speaker 1: of about. Do you remember that story, Jody You're talking about,
Speaker 1: you know the part of the brain. You're talking about
Speaker 1: the amigdala, right, yep. That the there's an article called
Speaker 1: The Woman Who Forgot to be Afraid and anyway she
Speaker 1: had basically she never got scared, like ever of anything. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like she she she literally had no fear response because
Speaker 1: for one of a more uh clinically correct term, her
Speaker 1: amigdala was broken, you know, epicenter of the brain. And yes,
Speaker 1: so she used to be in all kinds of precarious situations.
Speaker 1: And there was a story about how she was a nurse, right, yeah,
Speaker 1: and the quickest route between where she worked and her
Speaker 1: house was a cemetery, so she would walk in the
Speaker 1: middle of the night through this cemetery. And one guy
Speaker 1: one night, this guy confronted her to attack her, assault her, whatever,
Speaker 1: and she just laughed at him and told him to
Speaker 1: stop being an idiot. And she had no like, you know,
Speaker 1: she knew what. I don't know if she knew what
Speaker 1: was going on, but she had and she was so
Speaker 1: not scared that it freaked him out and he ran away.
Speaker 1: I love that. I love that. But I think we
Speaker 1: need I think we need a few response to keep
Speaker 1: us functional and safe for the most week we do.
Speaker 3: We so do.
Speaker 2: And one of the things Craig that worries me about
Speaker 2: us as we and I, you know, I'm obviously in
Speaker 2: this boat, is we feel anxiety about things that aren't
Speaker 2: life threatening, aren't actually going to endanger us, which is
Speaker 2: dare I say, pretty much all of the time, the
Speaker 2: anxiety that we're feeling is related to something that is
Speaker 2: not going to, you know, cause our demise, and we
Speaker 2: I say, we generalizing, But a lot of people will
Speaker 2: step back. It's like I don't like the feeling. It's
Speaker 2: I can't stand feeling like this, so I'll step back,
Speaker 2: and there's that avoidance. I'll say no to the invitation,
Speaker 2: I'll say no to the opportunity. I won't do the
Speaker 2: thing that I'm being asked to do if there's a choice.
Speaker 2: But for a lot of women, when we do have
Speaker 2: that part of our brain recognize that there's a threat,
Speaker 2: and there is a genuine threat, we often override that
Speaker 2: gut feeling that response that this is dangerous and we
Speaker 2: tell ourselves, oh, most people are okay, I'm sure I'm
Speaker 2: just overreacting. And that can be problematic obviously in terms
Speaker 2: of our safety. And so I think it's really interesting
Speaker 2: to know that this part of the brain that keeps
Speaker 2: us safe plays a very important role, and we do
Speaker 2: need to be listening, but we just need to be
Speaker 2: able to tell the difference and also know if we
Speaker 2: do feel like we are vulnerable or we just get
Speaker 2: that off feeling.
Speaker 3: We've got to listen because there's a lot of.
Speaker 2: Times and yeah, you know, women will hear something, see something,
Speaker 2: notice something, just have that feeling that something's off or.
Speaker 3: Just brush it off. And sometimes you brush it off
Speaker 3: and you'll be okay. Other times you might and you
Speaker 3: won't be.
Speaker 2: So it pays just to start to listen a little
Speaker 2: bit closely, I think, a little bit more closely.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an interesting I mean, I'm not a woman.
Speaker 1: Probably none of you pick that, but just clarifying for
Speaker 1: anyone who's wondering. But I have an interesting thing the
Speaker 1: other night which I haven't told anybody about, and it was
Speaker 1: probably nothing, but I put up I don't know if
Speaker 1: you saw. I put up the thing about going to
Speaker 1: Catman Do the other night to buy a bloody flannel shirt. Anyway,
Speaker 1: and I was so I was in this part of
Speaker 1: Southland which is kind of out of the way a
Speaker 1: little bit, and it was lateish, it was like thirty,
Speaker 1: and I went, I needed we you welcome everyone. I
Speaker 1: needed a week, or as I call it, a slash.
Speaker 1: I needed a slash. And so I went down this weird,
Speaker 1: little quiet section and there were toilets there, and as
Speaker 1: I went to I was walking down a little corridor
Speaker 1: towards the toilet and these two dodgy looking blokes were
Speaker 1: walking out and they saw me and they turned around
Speaker 1: and walked back in, and I went, ah. And I
Speaker 1: was wearing my headphones, which are expensive headphones, and I
Speaker 1: was carrying some shit I bought, and I had my
Speaker 1: iPhone and I just went, nah, are we somewhere else?
Speaker 1: I just did it one eighty because I'm like, it
Speaker 1: is weird that they're coming out and then they see
Speaker 1: me and they turn back and walk back in.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I thought, on the off chance that they think
Speaker 1: he's an old guy, that we might roll for all
Speaker 1: of shit. So you know, maybe nothing, maybe something, but
Speaker 1: better off safe.
Speaker 3: Than sorry totally.
Speaker 1: And you know, so it is I think there is
Speaker 1: that Yeah, I don't know. I think there's that intuitive
Speaker 1: instinctive men and women, and you know, yeah, I think
Speaker 1: we need to pay attention. Having said that that very
Speaker 1: world famous philosopher Tom Cruise. He said the other night
Speaker 1: in an interview which I really liked. He said, don't
Speaker 1: be afraid to be afraid. I like that. I like
Speaker 1: where I like sometimes I mean, obviously there's fear that's
Speaker 1: giving us a message, hey, stay the fuck away, and
Speaker 1: then there's some fear which is like, look, I'm uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: This is a bit scary, but I probably need to
Speaker 1: open this door because this is how I grow, learn, evolve,
Speaker 1: adapt Yeah, And being being fearful is not weak or bad.
Speaker 1: It's kind of human. Yeah, and sometimes some not all
Speaker 1: the times, because that's the that's where the wisdom bit
Speaker 1: comes in. But I mean, I honestly have learnt the
Speaker 1: most when I've been scared, like doing shit that scares
Speaker 1: me I'm uncomfortable in. So I think it's just differentiating
Speaker 1: between you know, what door to open and what door
Speaker 1: to leaves shut, and when to turn around and say
Speaker 1: I'm going to wear you somewhere.
Speaker 3: Else totally totally, And I know, like I know, like.
Speaker 2: There's some things like I think about like the trapeze,
Speaker 2: Like I've always wanted to do a lesson on the trapeze,
Speaker 2: just not to be a circus performer, just to try
Speaker 2: it and just experience that what it's like. And had
Speaker 2: a voutch you a long time ago, and I let
Speaker 2: it lapse because I was too anxious to try it,
Speaker 2: and like, that's not everyone's cup of tea. But sometimes
Speaker 2: taking that first step, it's got to be small enough.
Speaker 3: That you can move forward.
Speaker 2: It doesn't like we've all got things that we would
Speaker 2: like to try. I just think that you've got to
Speaker 2: break it down, Like if the first step is feeling
Speaker 2: too overwhelming, they just try to find a way to
Speaker 2: make that.
Speaker 3: First step a little bit easier. Because I just feel really.
Speaker 2: Passionate about us all getting to the end of our
Speaker 2: days and taking that final breath and sort of feeling like,
Speaker 2: you know, I didn't let that anxiety stop me from
Speaker 2: doing the things that you know, I really would have
Speaker 2: liked to have tried. Yeah, So I keep thinking about
Speaker 2: the trapeze and one day I'll jump on here and
Speaker 2: I'll say I did it.
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't feel as anxious about it now.
Speaker 3: I just need to organize it.
Speaker 1: But I reckon you should. I reckon you should book it,
Speaker 1: and Tiff and I'll come along and cheer you on.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, that would be so fun. That would
Speaker 3: be so fun. Would you do it?
Speaker 1: About one hundred amazing? You book it. I can't speak
Speaker 1: for tip, but I'll come and cheer you on.
Speaker 3: What do you reckon to hear?
Speaker 4: I'm there?
Speaker 3: Okay, let's do it.
Speaker 1: Okay, hey not, let's do it. You do it. I
Speaker 1: didn't say I'm going to get on the fucking trapeze.
Speaker 1: I said I'm going to check you one.
Speaker 3: Oh that's what I said. Okay, I thought that's what
Speaker 3: you meant.
Speaker 1: All right, Okay, let's tell you what if you get
Speaker 1: on the trapeze. I'm not worried about getting on the
Speaker 1: trapeze in terms of falling and killing myself. I'm worried
Speaker 1: about my sixty one year old shoulders. That's what I'm
Speaker 1: worried about. But if you do it, if you do it,
Speaker 1: I'll do it.
Speaker 2: I don't want to be responsible for anything happening to
Speaker 2: your shoulders, so I'm happy if you just cheer me.
Speaker 3: You can decide later.
Speaker 1: Well, the bloker's got a torn left rotator cuff. Probably
Speaker 1: shouldn't take up circus hearts.
Speaker 3: Probably not. That ship has sailed.
Speaker 1: Probably, How do you know, Okay, this is forther of you.
Speaker 1: We're talking about fear, and we're talking about which daughter
Speaker 1: open and which door to leave shut. And we're talking
Speaker 1: about some fear as a you know, some fear is
Speaker 1: a very valuable kind of warning system, right, and then
Speaker 1: other fear is almost like a psychological prison. How do
Speaker 1: you anxiety coin? How do we differentiate? I mean, I
Speaker 1: know there's no three step answer to that, but what
Speaker 1: are your thoughts, like, what is the fear? How do
Speaker 1: I know what fear I should lean into and what
Speaker 1: fear I should take as some kind of insight that's
Speaker 1: giving me a warning.
Speaker 2: It's so hard because when we are activated in the moment,
Speaker 2: it's near.
Speaker 3: Impossible to think clearly.
Speaker 2: Of course, because as we've said before, the part of
Speaker 2: the brain that enables us to make good decisions is
Speaker 2: unavailable temporarily. And so part of it is about like
Speaker 2: a lot of us do a lot of the same
Speaker 2: things each day. So part of it is like well,
Speaker 2: knowing your circumstances and giving things a little forethought, like
Speaker 2: maybe don't walk through a dark cemetery, assuming that you
Speaker 2: have a MiG delivered a functioning and you know instinctively
Speaker 2: you know, we instinctively we fight or flee, so our
Speaker 2: instinctive response is to not go forward. Okay, so let's
Speaker 2: just start with that. And so if we are in danger,
Speaker 2: we hope that that kicks in and most of us
Speaker 2: are going to want to run like the wind rather
Speaker 2: than stay and fight. So I think then when we
Speaker 2: look at well, what are the things that anxiety will say,
Speaker 2: don't do it?
Speaker 3: Don't go to.
Speaker 2: That party, don't accept that invitation, you know, don't change
Speaker 2: jobs even though you hate the one you're in, because
Speaker 2: oh you'll have to start, you know, all of the
Speaker 2: things that anxiety will say not to do. Don't book
Speaker 2: that holiday because you've never been there before.
Speaker 3: Whatever. It is the start to sort of look for.
Speaker 2: Those patterns of what where do you avoid things in life?
Speaker 3: And that way you kind.
Speaker 2: Of like sort of you can see and you know
Speaker 2: yourself well enough in the moment.
Speaker 3: What helps is if you.
Speaker 2: Have practiced mindfulness, if you're a meditator or you practice
Speaker 2: mindfulness regularly, that can reduce the sensitivity of that alarm system.
Speaker 2: It reduces the size of the amygdala, and it can
Speaker 2: buy you a little bit a little bit of space
Speaker 2: and a little bit of time. To be able to
Speaker 2: make a decision, especially if you can see the anxiety building,
Speaker 2: you can feel it building, and you know what the
Speaker 2: signs are that this is coming for you. So I'll
Speaker 2: recognize my breathing changes. Other people will go I feel sick.
Speaker 2: Other people will like I start trembling. So if you
Speaker 2: can see it coming, that's really powerful too, because you're like, Okay,
Speaker 2: I know what's happening.
Speaker 3: What do I do next?
Speaker 1: I have this little I didn't invent this, I'm sure,
Speaker 1: but if I'm scared about something, apprehensive, nervous, anxious, something
Speaker 1: I want to do, I think, what's the worst that
Speaker 1: can happen?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: What I do? I go, what's the worst that can happen?
Speaker 1: And then I put myself in that?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: And I go, can I cope with that? I go, yeah,
Speaker 1: I won't like it, but it's not going to kill me.
Speaker 1: And I might be embarrassed or humiliated or fucking terrified
Speaker 1: or but I think, yeah, I do that, and so
Speaker 1: I feel like, well, it's probably not going to be that,
Speaker 1: but the worst outcome could be I forget what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: people laugh at me, and I get booed off stage.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't want that, But I mean, in
Speaker 1: some alternate, fucking horrible reality, could that. Yet it could?
Speaker 1: And you go, is that would be horrible? But will
Speaker 1: it kill me?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 1: So I kind of go, you know, And that's the
Speaker 1: I think you've got to weigh it up as you
Speaker 1: go too, because also, I mean, as you said, you
Speaker 1: don't want to get to the end of the journey
Speaker 1: and go fuck. I wish I had have done this.
Speaker 1: I wish I had had taken more chances. I wish
Speaker 1: I didn't let fear run my life, you know. I
Speaker 1: wish I wasn't a prisoner of my own fucking self
Speaker 1: defeating thoughts by limiting thinking like, you know, because hey,
Speaker 1: we're all scared, fucking apart from the lady in the cemetery,
Speaker 1: you know, everyone has everyone has fear, everyone has anxiety,
Speaker 1: everyone has self doubt, everyone overthinks, you know. I mean,
Speaker 1: these are just human commonalities. This is not weakness, This
Speaker 1: is not you being bad or flawed. I think it's
Speaker 1: just how we navigate life with all of those things.
Speaker 1: And this is not the right term, but the amount
Speaker 1: of power or influence we let those things have over us.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's so wise.
Speaker 2: Perhaps it really is, and it can have enormous power
Speaker 2: over us. It can make life so small. And you know,
Speaker 2: you hear of people who haven't left their homes for
Speaker 2: years and that didn't happen overnight. That started with saying
Speaker 2: no to something and not not not doing one particular,
Speaker 2: you know, saying, you know, going to a party, or
Speaker 2: you know, if people are socially anxious, which is obviously
Speaker 2: a huge fear of embarrassing yourself and saying the wrong thing.
Speaker 2: And I mean, I must admit I'm thinking back to
Speaker 2: the start of the episode where I stuffed up my grammar.
Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, but you know what, I'll live with
Speaker 2: that it doesn't matter and we but it feels like
Speaker 2: it just feels like for some people that it is
Speaker 2: like literally it is so going to be so too way,
Speaker 2: too painful to cope, and that then they say, you know,
Speaker 2: no to more things, and ultimately they're not even checking
Speaker 2: the letterbox. And it just pains me to think about
Speaker 2: how small people's life sket But I did interview a
Speaker 2: psychologist who asked a patient of his.
Speaker 3: He had a five.
Speaker 2: Kilometer radius that he wouldn't travel past, and the psychologist
Speaker 2: said to him, if your daughter her car broke down
Speaker 2: and she was stuck in the dark and needed help,
Speaker 2: and she was, you know, five point five kilometers from
Speaker 2: your home, because I mean, how arbitrary is five kilometers.
Speaker 2: You know, what would you do? He said, I'd go
Speaker 2: straight to her. And that speaks to how important something
Speaker 2: is for us. You know, if it's important enough, then
Speaker 2: we get this willingness and this.
Speaker 3: I think this in ourselves. We've got enough willingness to.
Speaker 2: Be able to cope with the discomfort and the distress
Speaker 2: that might come with what it's going to take to
Speaker 2: get to where we need to go. But the hardest
Speaker 2: thing is the first time. Each time it just gets easier.
Speaker 2: And you know, if you start small and you do
Speaker 2: it regularly enough and you're willing to put yourself out
Speaker 2: there and experience that discomfort which, like you say, it
Speaker 2: won't kill you, and have a curiosity about how you
Speaker 2: feel and why you feel the way you feel, and
Speaker 2: then retreat and then go out and just you know,
Speaker 2: a classic kind of just keep making it a little
Speaker 2: bit harder for yourself. It's so simple, not always easy,
Speaker 2: but it works.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's how much I mean, this is
Speaker 1: an oversimplification but how much do you want that thing
Speaker 1: or how important is that thing? You know, because if
Speaker 1: something is important enough, I mean like fucking life alteringly important,
Speaker 1: or you know, like your kid or whatever, pretty much
Speaker 1: do anything even if that thing terrifies you. You know this.
Speaker 1: I apologize to my listeners who have heard this five times,
Speaker 1: but I don't think you've heard it. Jodie. So one
Speaker 1: of the I'm one of my camps, there was a
Speaker 1: lady there if you've probably heard this nine times, sorry,
Speaker 1: and we're talking. So we have one hundred and thirty
Speaker 1: people at my camps, that's all we fit and we
Speaker 1: spend two days together. Well this is when we do
Speaker 1: a camp in a Mantaaliza and we're just I'd finish
Speaker 1: speaking and then it was just Q and AM. People
Speaker 1: were talking about stuff, and this lady was saying, I
Speaker 1: get it all, and I, you know, like I've done this,
Speaker 1: I've done that, and like my weakness though, is chocolate,
Speaker 1: and she goes, I can do I can go for
Speaker 1: the run, I can do this. I can By the way,
Speaker 1: I'm not suggesting people should never eat chocolate, but she
Speaker 1: bought it up and she eats chocolate every day of
Speaker 1: her life. And probably too much. Yeah, And she goes,
Speaker 1: I can't. I can't give up chocolate. She goes, I've
Speaker 1: tried and tried. I just literally can't give it up.
Speaker 1: And I said, well, you can, but you won't. And
Speaker 1: she's like, no, I just can't. She goes, you don't understand,
Speaker 1: and I go, no, you don't understand. I go, you
Speaker 1: absolutely can, but you won't. And I said, can I
Speaker 1: prove it to you? And she said yes, and she
Speaker 1: I knew she had a dog because she'd spoken about
Speaker 1: her dog. I said, what's your dog's name? And then
Speaker 1: she told us the name of the dog, and I said,
Speaker 1: let's just go with Fido. I said, what about this?
Speaker 1: And I said, oh, by the way, how much do
Speaker 1: you love that dog? And she's like more than my kids?
Speaker 3: Right, she loves I like this lady.
Speaker 1: Yeah, more than my kids. She's like, that dog is
Speaker 1: like my life revolves around the dog. You know, I
Speaker 1: love the dog. And I said what if The next time,
Speaker 1: I said, I know this is silly, but this is
Speaker 1: a psychological experiment, right, so obviously this is purely a hypothetical,
Speaker 1: but I'm trying to prove to you something. Let's say,
Speaker 1: in an alternate reality. In this reality, your life is
Speaker 1: identical to how it currently is. Nothing's different except the
Speaker 1: next time you eat a bit of chocolate, your dog
Speaker 1: is going to drop dead. Right the next time you
Speaker 1: eat a bit of chocolate, dog drops dead and boom.
Speaker 1: Now we're in that reality. I said, how much chocolate
Speaker 1: will you eat today? And she goes, none? And I
Speaker 1: go tomorrow, none, this month, none, as long as the
Speaker 1: dog's alive. None. And I said, well, you told me
Speaker 1: you can't. I said, but given the right circumstances or
Speaker 1: enough psychological or emotional leverage, you just told me you
Speaker 1: wouldn't eat any Oh, she goes, But that's different. I'm like, yes,
Speaker 1: it is different. We're talking about a different situation. But
Speaker 1: the question was can you yes? And the answer is yes, yes,
Speaker 1: I will you. So I think so often and that
Speaker 1: obviously that example is not true for everything, but it's
Speaker 1: true for many things, like if you really, really, really
Speaker 1: really fucking want something, find a way, you'll find a way.
Speaker 2: It's the urge. That urge feels so powerful. And I mean,
Speaker 2: I've never smoked, but I mean I can't imagine what
Speaker 2: it must be like to give up something as.
Speaker 3: Addictive as cigarette smoking, you.
Speaker 2: Know, but that urge, it's that terrible discomfort of really really,
Speaker 2: really really wanting something and knowing.
Speaker 3: It I can just have it.
Speaker 2: It's just literally right there for me and being again
Speaker 2: willing to go right what I want beyond this decision
Speaker 2: in this moment is bigger and more powerful and it's
Speaker 2: worth this pain in the short term. But you know,
Speaker 2: as we know, and I think we've said before here
Speaker 2: on the podcast, people can have a terminal diagnosis with
Speaker 2: their health lung cancer for example, and still not find
Speaker 2: it within themselves to let go of the thing, the
Speaker 2: very thing that's you know, telling them behavior. As we know,
Speaker 2: it's not easy, but is it's doable. But like it's
Speaker 2: it's what how how much do you want it?
Speaker 3: I suppose at the end of the day.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And by the way, when I say this everybody
Speaker 1: and Jody as well, I'm sure there's no judgment in that.
Speaker 1: There's just recognition. And I know, like I know someone
Speaker 1: right now who shouldn't smoke. It's not my parents who
Speaker 1: shouldn't smoke, and they still smoke, and well they shouldn't
Speaker 1: smoke in the sense that their body's already in trouble, right,
Speaker 1: But Also, this is looking through the Craig, the very
Speaker 1: judgmental Craig window. So when I go, okay, fuck, what
Speaker 1: you think, Craig, like, what does it do for them?
Speaker 1: You know what? It just gives them joy, It gives
Speaker 1: you enjoy it. By the way, I'm not recommending or endorsing.
Speaker 1: I'm just going like, remember, seek first to understand when
Speaker 1: I look at other people's behavior through my window, it
Speaker 1: is very easy to be judgmental.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 1: But when people come to me with a question, well
Speaker 1: then that's a different issue. Yeah, but you know, I think, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm with you. It's like it is quizical. But you know,
Speaker 1: people would look at my behavior or TIFFs or your
Speaker 1: behavior and go, these three are the biggest fucking weirdos
Speaker 1: I've ever seen, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know I'm.
Speaker 1: Compared to the Ambridge bloke my age in Australia. I
Speaker 1: fully acknowledge I'm a weirdo. Yeah, and I don't think
Speaker 1: I'm better than anyone. I'm not saying yeah that's because
Speaker 1: I'm this, It's not. I'm I acknowledge I've got all
Speaker 1: the fucking issues.
Speaker 2: I was having this chat with my dad you know,
Speaker 2: how's this for. I guess dichotomy might be the right word.
Speaker 2: Mum's just finishing her second Camino in Spain. Dad's been
Speaker 2: in hospital for three weeks with a diabetic gal star diabetes,
Speaker 2: unstable sugars and inactivity. Has just like he's just sending him,
Speaker 2: you know, to being ultimately unable to walk. And I
Speaker 2: and I just I just look, I just sort of
Speaker 2: stand back sometimes and I look at the two parents
Speaker 2: of mine and Dad. Dad was going, you're so you
Speaker 2: and your mother are just you're so weird, like you
Speaker 2: just you just like you just love your exercise and
Speaker 2: and and I, you know, because because I just really
Speaker 2: want him to move more, for so many reasons, for
Speaker 2: all the reasons, and you know, gosh, you know how much,
Speaker 2: how many conversations I've had over the years with him,
Speaker 2: and and it's it's just, you know, it's it's what
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know what I'm trying to say,
Speaker 2: but what what we do because we we we found
Speaker 2: things that we love to do, and we do, you know,
Speaker 2: put ourselves. You know, we're willing to be uncomfortable and
Speaker 2: and to sacrifice other things, I suppose for you know,
Speaker 2: the time to spend exercising, and it's it's I think
Speaker 2: it all seems out of reach sometimes, but it's it's
Speaker 2: not as oud as reaches as people might think.
Speaker 3: It's just about just getting started.
Speaker 1: But I think it just starts with booking the traps. Jody,
Speaker 1: I don't want to call I don't want to call
Speaker 1: you on your own lesson. I don't mean to be rude,
Speaker 1: but TIFF's got a two o'clock and we've and it's
Speaker 1: three minutes too. Yes, we're going to We're going to
Speaker 1: wind up. We love you, we love you chatting with us.
Speaker 1: Can you tell people how they can connect with you?
Speaker 1: Find your books, find your website, find your podcast, please
Speaker 1: and thank you.
Speaker 2: Oh Craig always enjoy you too, Tiff so awesome. Yes,
Speaker 2: I have a calm your anxious brain minicurs on my website.
Speaker 2: So if you want to scroll to the bottom of
Speaker 2: doctor Jodi Richardson dot com dot are you, you'll find
Speaker 2: that you can enter your details there and you'll find
Speaker 2: me if you google me Jody with an eye.
Speaker 3: That's it. Well, hallowe Anxiety is a podcast.
Speaker 1: Consider yourself, go googled. Well, say goodbye affair. But as
Speaker 1: always DOC appreciate you, love you, thanks for being part
Speaker 1: of the You Project family and thanks to you Curly Hatif.
Speaker 3: Thanks you Sam.
Speaker 2: Bye, everyone,