WEBVTT - Credlin | 5 October 0:00:08.369 --> 0:00:12.040 Good evening and welcome to the program. I'm Jamie Rogers, 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:15.980 in for Peter Credlin, who's away. Here's what's coming up 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:20.230 on the show. The climate gravy train rolls into Fiji 0:00:20.489 --> 0:00:24.990 as Anthony Albanese and Chris Bowen attend the pre-COP31 meeting. 0:00:25.370 --> 0:00:30.110 Warm weather, cocktails and plenty of secrecy over just how 0:00:30.170 --> 0:00:32.910 much all of this is costing you as the taxpayer. 0:00:34.090 --> 0:00:38.309 Questions tonight over acceptable policy positions after the Greens in 0:00:38.340 --> 0:00:43.800 the UK adopted a Zionism is racism position, putting opposition 0:00:43.960 --> 0:00:47.380 to the existence of Jewish state at the heart of 0:00:47.440 --> 0:00:50.309 its platform on the eve of the anniversary of the 0:00:50.409 --> 0:00:55.360 vile October 7 attacks. Plus the campaign to send an 0:00:55.420 --> 0:00:59.970 Australian astronaut to space. It comes with a $ 100 million 0:01:00.030 --> 0:01:03.709 price tag, but those have argued it could have some 0:01:03.750 --> 0:01:08.509 tangible benefits for the nation and Australia's global standing. And 0:01:08.550 --> 0:01:11.949 the backlash keeps on coming as the Albanese government faces 0:01:12.050 --> 0:01:15.890 pressure to reverse the ATO's ban on credit card payments, 0:01:16.420 --> 0:01:19.520 accused of making life even harder for small business. 0:01:20.410 --> 0:01:22.069 You know, it's just one thing on top of another. 0:01:22.110 --> 0:01:24.990 The red tape burden is strangling small business and it's 0:01:25.050 --> 0:01:25.550 got to stop. 0:01:28.510 --> 0:01:31.910 Well, Anthony Albanese and Chris Bowen jetted off to Fiji 0:01:31.950 --> 0:01:36.530 today on your dime for a three-day pre-cop climate summit 0:01:36.670 --> 0:01:44.580 organised by Australia. Flights, officials, accommodation, security, logistics. Australian taxpayers 0:01:44.800 --> 0:01:48.200 are footing the bill. But there's one important detail that 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:49.730 Chris Bowen won't tell us. 0:01:50.430 --> 0:01:54.010 How much we're actually paying for it. That's right. 0:01:54.590 --> 0:01:57.809 Now, this is part of the $ 150 million for Mr 0:01:57.830 --> 0:02:02.580 Bowen's role as president of negotiations and other COP-related activities. 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:06.140 And that's even before we begin to count the billions 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:09.860 being poured into Labor's energy transition. Now, this is at 0:02:09.900 --> 0:02:13.340 a time when Australians have been hit with another interest 0:02:13.380 --> 0:02:17.560 rate rise, small businesses being squeezed from every direction. 0:02:18.210 --> 0:02:20.639 Households told to tighten their belts. 0:02:21.260 --> 0:02:24.860 Yet when taxpayers ask how much their government is spending 0:02:25.000 --> 0:02:28.610 on a climate conference in Fiji, apparently they're not entitled 0:02:28.650 --> 0:02:32.210 to answer. If the government is so proud of this event, 0:02:32.710 --> 0:02:33.549 why the secrecy? 0:02:34.380 --> 0:02:37.899 And it's very hard to see how this in any 0:02:37.980 --> 0:02:41.160 way is getting value for money for the Australian taxpayer. 0:02:41.220 --> 0:02:44.560 And the reason we know that is because the government 0:02:44.600 --> 0:02:47.669 won't come clean with the costs. And you heard Chris 0:02:47.690 --> 0:02:51.110 Bowen just before. He wouldn't come clean with the costs. 0:02:51.130 --> 0:02:53.650 You had to throw numbers at him to try and 0:02:53.770 --> 0:02:56.980 elicit a response as to how much this costs. They 0:02:57.020 --> 0:03:00.419 won't tell us which world leaders are going, which aren't. 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:04.020 They won't say whether they were all invited or not. 0:03:04.040 --> 0:03:07.320 I mean, the whole thing, the secrecy around it. I mean, 0:03:07.680 --> 0:03:10.560 what have they got to hide? If this is so important, 0:03:10.880 --> 0:03:12.679 why the secrecy around it all? 0:03:13.700 --> 0:03:17.120 And it's a fair question, particularly when you hear Chris 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:19.000 Bowen's description of the event. 0:03:19.780 --> 0:03:21.600 Yeah, and Sally, I think it's important to note that 0:03:21.660 --> 0:03:25.390 pre-copy is normally a pretty pedestrian affair, to be frank 0:03:25.430 --> 0:03:25.710 with you. 0:03:27.110 --> 0:03:29.690 A pretty pedestrian affair. Excuse me? 0:03:30.350 --> 0:03:33.960 You can't tell Australians this is an important diplomatic engagement 0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:37.320 and then defend a low turnout by saying pre-cop is 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:41.810 normally a pretty pedestrian affair. Well, former Prime Minister Julia 0:03:41.850 --> 0:03:44.730 Gillard has been announced as one of the headline speakers, 0:03:45.250 --> 0:03:48.430 and so has former New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern. 0:03:49.050 --> 0:03:52.650 Chris Bowen will talk about greater electrification across the Pacific. 0:03:53.170 --> 0:03:56.350 But perhaps before lecturing the region about its energy future, 0:03:56.590 --> 0:04:00.000 he should look in his own backyard. Energy prices have 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:05.119 risen close to 40%. So much for the $ 275 annual 0:04:05.160 --> 0:04:09.930 reduction by 2025. Just last week, another smelter was rescued 0:04:09.970 --> 0:04:14.030 to the tune of $ 200 million using taxpayer money shared 0:04:14.070 --> 0:04:17.790 between Tasmania and the federal government. This year, we've also 0:04:17.810 --> 0:04:22.310 rescued the Tomago smelter with a $ 2. 5 billion bailout between 0:04:22.330 --> 0:04:26.369 the New South Wales and federal governments. Rio's aluminium smelter 0:04:26.390 --> 0:04:30.779 in Queensland received a $ 2 billion bailout between the state 0:04:30.820 --> 0:04:34.380 and federal government. Let's not forget the $ 6 billion spent 0:04:34.460 --> 0:04:38.040 on the Energy Bill Relief Fund to help families and 0:04:38.100 --> 0:04:42.859 Australians with sky-high electricity bills. But the absurdity of that 0:04:43.370 --> 0:04:46.929 is we all pay taxes and then the government gives 0:04:47.010 --> 0:04:50.070 the money back to help all of us pay electricity 0:04:50.089 --> 0:04:52.010 bills that have become too expensive. 0:04:52.790 --> 0:04:53.970 Do you see the pattern here? 0:04:54.880 --> 0:04:59.179 Energy intensive industries are struggling and cannot survive on windmills 0:04:59.220 --> 0:05:02.980 and solar. Families are choosing between heating their home and 0:05:03.020 --> 0:05:06.860 putting food on the table. But will this government reconsider 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:11.200 the transition? No, they'll just reach into your pocket and 0:05:11.240 --> 0:05:14.469 take more money. Chris Bowen should also look at the 0:05:14.550 --> 0:05:17.830 energy debate around the rest of the world. Because something 0:05:17.870 --> 0:05:21.970 extraordinary happened in Britain this weekend. The Green Party voted 0:05:22.010 --> 0:05:26.370 to abandon its blanket opposition to nuclear power. Its policy 0:05:26.450 --> 0:05:30.960 now recognises nuclear as a form of low carbon electricity generation. 0:05:31.740 --> 0:05:33.219 And then there's the United States. 0:05:33.779 --> 0:05:36.700 Just last week, the US approved construction for the country's 0:05:36.800 --> 0:05:41.020 first commercial small modular reactor. France are powering ahead with 0:05:41.060 --> 0:05:45.350 another 10 reactors by 2030. Even the Prime Minister himself 0:05:45.650 --> 0:05:49.849 recently praised India's Prime Minister for their energy grid. 0:05:51.310 --> 0:05:57.260 To give Prime Minister Modi credit, more people have been 0:05:57.320 --> 0:06:04.500 connected with access to energy in India under his reign 0:06:04.540 --> 0:06:07.830 than has occurred in any decade in any country or 0:06:07.910 --> 0:06:09.350 any region in human history. 0:06:11.380 --> 0:06:15.510 And that's Anthony Albanese sitting there praising India for their 0:06:15.570 --> 0:06:20.350 energy grid. And they're using nuclear powered by our uranium. 0:06:21.250 --> 0:06:24.600 So nuclear power is good enough for India's energy transition, 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:28.000 but not here. We'll just keep powering ahead with a 0:06:28.020 --> 0:06:32.760 renewables only plan. And the contradiction doesn't end there. Labor's 0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:37.410 assistant climate change minister, Josh Wilson, recently dismissed the nuclear 0:06:37.430 --> 0:06:38.810 debate by declaring this. 0:06:39.779 --> 0:06:43.359 They want to spend $ 600 billion of taxpayers' money because 0:06:43.400 --> 0:06:44.890 there's no private investment in it. 0:06:44.920 --> 0:06:47.240 There's no private investment in nuclear anywhere. 0:06:48.700 --> 0:06:49.070 Anywhere? 0:06:49.089 --> 0:06:51.850 Well, somebody might want to tell the Minister about the 0:06:51.890 --> 0:06:56.510 investments made by Google, Meta and Microsoft. They're securing nuclear 0:06:56.570 --> 0:06:59.539 power to confront the enormous energy demands of AI and 0:06:59.570 --> 0:07:04.979 data centres. And here's the great irony. Lifting Australia's moratorium 0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:09.210 on nuclear power won't commit taxpayers to building a single reactor. 0:07:09.810 --> 0:07:12.170 It will allow the market to decide where the nuclear 0:07:12.210 --> 0:07:16.450 stacks up. It costs taxpayers nothing to lift the ban. 0:07:17.170 --> 0:07:21.600 This government's renewables-only tunnel vision won't solve the energy crisis. 0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:25.960 And the opposition's case for lifting the nuclear ban stands 0:07:26.020 --> 0:07:33.280 up better than the government would like to admit. or 0:07:33.300 --> 0:07:37.440 more unintended consequences from a government that just doesn't understand. 0:07:38.220 --> 0:07:42.060 Labor's ban on credit card surcharges came into effect last week. 0:07:42.580 --> 0:07:46.210 It was sold as another cost-of-living win with customers set 0:07:46.250 --> 0:07:48.410 to save $ 1. 0:07:46.690 --> 0:07:52.490 6 billion a year. Problem solved. Except, of course, it isn't. 0:07:53.070 --> 0:07:56.890 Because this government has developed an unfortunate habit, making the 0:07:56.950 --> 0:08:00.210 announcement and then leaving everyone else to work out who pays. 0:08:01.060 --> 0:08:03.560 And now some of the Australians that are being caught 0:08:03.580 --> 0:08:07.980 in the fallout are renters already struggling to make ends meet. 0:08:08.800 --> 0:08:12.110 One of Australia's largest rental payment platforms has decided to 0:08:12.210 --> 0:08:17.840 stop accepting credit cards altogether. Macquarie Bank's DEFT platform processes 0:08:17.880 --> 0:08:23.180 around 1.2 million rent transactions every month. About 2% of 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:26.370 rental and strata payments through the platform were being made 0:08:26.510 --> 0:08:30.390 by card. But following the surcharge reforms, Macquarie has announced 0:08:30.910 --> 0:08:34.050 it will stop accepting them. And even the bank admits 0:08:34.090 --> 0:08:38.570 there's no like-for-like replacement. And credit cards are important for 0:08:38.610 --> 0:08:42.080 those who need a short-term bridge rather than falling behind 0:08:42.140 --> 0:08:47.250 on their rent. Tenants Union chief executive Leo Patterson-Ross said 0:08:47.309 --> 0:08:51.500 financially distressed tenants were in more danger. He told the 0:08:51.520 --> 0:08:55.040 Sydney Morning Herald, the people I'd be most concerned about 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:58.080 are the people on the edge of hardship. Some renters' 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:01.929 incomes don't line up nicely with what landlords or managing 0:09:02.050 --> 0:09:05.910 agents expect. If you're a contractor or have irregular income, 0:09:06.330 --> 0:09:08.970 you can see an advantage to using a credit card. 0:09:10.010 --> 0:09:12.670 Because this isn't the only unintended consequence. 0:09:13.190 --> 0:09:16.610 The ATO has stopped accepting credit cards because they don't 0:09:16.630 --> 0:09:19.830 want to pay the fee. Master Builders has written to 0:09:19.850 --> 0:09:24.949 the ATO slamming their decision, saying builders need this offer. 0:09:25.870 --> 0:09:29.410 And former Labor Minister Joel Fitzgibbon says the changes don't 0:09:29.429 --> 0:09:32.390 make sense and will hit those who need it most. 0:09:33.940 --> 0:09:38.760 Yeah, it is inconsistent, Kieran. It has bewildered me, quite frankly. 0:09:39.410 --> 0:09:42.210 I mean, the ATO has suggested it might save $ 200 0:09:42.170 --> 0:09:46.760 million by doing this. Well, dare I say, I mean, 0:09:46.760 --> 0:09:49.400 $ 200 million is a lot of money in our eyes, 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:51.699 but in the context of the Commonwealth budget or in 0:09:51.720 --> 0:09:53.880 the context as a proportion of the taxes they raise, 0:09:53.900 --> 0:09:56.790 it's a very, very small amount of money. So why 0:09:56.850 --> 0:10:01.160 do this, particularly when the government's just decided or someone 0:10:01.179 --> 0:10:04.680 has just decided to deny small business the capacity to 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:07.780 pass on the bank fees? So it's bewildering. 0:10:09.340 --> 0:10:12.240 So the ATO doesn't want to absorb the costs, but 0:10:12.300 --> 0:10:16.520 the government still expects businesses to. The double standard is 0:10:16.660 --> 0:10:20.090 hard to ignore. But this is what happens when governments 0:10:20.130 --> 0:10:24.859 confuse regulating a price with reducing a cost. Instead of 0:10:24.900 --> 0:10:27.280 taking up the fight with the banks over what it 0:10:27.340 --> 0:10:30.720 costs to process a payment, they've taken the easy option 0:10:30.880 --> 0:10:35.220 and dumped the cost on businesses. They haven't abolished the surcharge. 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:40.610 They've socialised it. And now everyone pays. And once again, 0:10:41.070 --> 0:10:44.130 we're left asking whether anyone in the federal government stops 0:10:44.170 --> 0:10:46.730 to think about the real-world impact. 0:10:46.940 --> 0:10:48.140 Before they act. 0:10:52.300 --> 0:10:55.189 Well, let's head to Canberra now for tonight's political headlines 0:10:55.250 --> 0:10:57.110 with political reporter Cam Redden. 0:10:57.950 --> 0:10:58.370 Good evening. 0:10:58.710 --> 0:11:01.330 The Prime Minister has arrived in Fiji for the beginning 0:11:01.429 --> 0:11:03.130 of the pre-cop climate summit. 0:11:03.490 --> 0:11:07.400 We know that we're seeing more intense and more extreme 0:11:07.720 --> 0:11:10.020 weather events more frequently. 0:11:10.730 --> 0:11:11.589 On occasion. 0:11:11.770 --> 0:11:13.810 Well, certainly it is a good spin of Australia's taxpayers' money. 0:11:13.830 --> 0:11:16.870 This is our most important diplomatic engagement in the Pacific, 0:11:16.910 --> 0:11:17.670 certainly this term. 0:11:18.050 --> 0:11:22.340 Backlash is mounting over the unintended consequences of Labor's ban 0:11:22.460 --> 0:11:24.060 on credit card surcharges. 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:26.420 The price you see is the price you pay. 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:29.860 But the prices they see are going up as business 0:11:29.920 --> 0:11:33.100 owners flood social media to say they have no choice 0:11:33.179 --> 0:11:36.100 but to pass on the cost of covering processing fees. 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:39.490 Small to medium operators are We have no choice. We're 0:11:39.510 --> 0:11:40.750 sort of held by the throat. 0:11:41.050 --> 0:11:43.890 Last week, the tax office announced that rather than absorb 0:11:43.929 --> 0:11:47.480 the cost itself, it would instead refuse all credit card 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:49.400 payments from November 30. 0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:52.520 We can't expect SMEs, particularly in the building sector, to 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:54.179 keep taking these hits. 0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:58.380 Now tenants too are facing a squeeze. Macquarie Bank's deft 0:11:58.460 --> 0:12:01.500 payment system, which processes more than a million rent payments 0:12:01.540 --> 0:12:05.530 a month, has also blocked credit card payments. People who 0:12:05.670 --> 0:12:07.750 are running the country have never run a business and 0:12:07.770 --> 0:12:11.460 they don't understand what you need and that flexibility of 0:12:11.670 --> 0:12:15.040 and how slim your margins are. Cameron Redden, News 24, Canberra. 0:12:18.200 --> 0:12:20.380 All right, well, let's get into some other news of 0:12:20.420 --> 0:12:24.559 the day now with News24 political contributor Chris Ullman, who 0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:25.960 joins us from Canberra. 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:27.420 Chris, welcome. 0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:31.520 As I've just touched on moments ago, our part-time energy 0:12:31.559 --> 0:12:35.470 minister has jetted off to Fiji for the pre-COP31 meeting. 0:12:35.910 --> 0:12:39.230 But revelations today that former Prime Minister Julia Gillard and 0:12:39.290 --> 0:12:42.650 New Zealand's former leader Jacinda Ardern are amongst some of 0:12:42.690 --> 0:12:43.930 those headline speakers. 0:12:44.429 --> 0:12:47.350 But, Chris, honestly... What are those two going to add 0:12:47.390 --> 0:12:48.550 to the climate conference? 0:12:48.910 --> 0:12:51.910 It feels like this is nothing more than a political 0:12:51.970 --> 0:12:54.190 junket for current and former politicians. 0:12:56.480 --> 0:12:58.700 Well, Jamie, what we do know is that only two 0:12:58.780 --> 0:13:02.280 world leaders are actually showing up to this event. That's 0:13:02.360 --> 0:13:05.939 the president of Mauritius and the leader of Timor-Leste. At 0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:08.460 the beginning of the year, of course, Chris Bowen said 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:11.120 that this was going to be an unprecedented opportunity to 0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:13.510 bring the world to the Pacific. And as usual, the 0:13:13.570 --> 0:13:16.310 advertising turned out to run way ahead of what actually 0:13:16.370 --> 0:13:20.209 is being delivered. All of this presidency of the Council 0:13:20.250 --> 0:13:24.120 of Parties that he's now undertaking is a consolation prize 0:13:24.130 --> 0:13:26.599 for not having that event in Australia. It's going to 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:29.370 go ahead in Turkey, where he'll have next to no 0:13:29.429 --> 0:13:32.150 influence over what's going on there. And those world leaders 0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:34.160 that do up will show there. So this is a 0:13:34.179 --> 0:13:38.900 completely wasted opportunity for Australia. And the money that we're 0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:42.830 being asked to pour into it, $ 150 million, could well 0:13:42.870 --> 0:13:45.309 be spent better on something else. And I point to 0:13:45.350 --> 0:13:48.650 the fact that we had a Pacific Island forum just 0:13:48.950 --> 0:13:52.860 one month where all of these same issues were canvassed. 0:13:52.940 --> 0:13:56.600 So this is an utterly pointless exercise to try and 0:13:56.720 --> 0:14:01.200 burnish the credentials of our energy minister on the international stage, 0:14:01.260 --> 0:14:04.569 not in Australia, but to try and get his CV 0:14:04.630 --> 0:14:06.930 ready for the next job that he will apply for 0:14:07.150 --> 0:14:08.570 on the international stage. 0:14:09.570 --> 0:14:12.840 But Chris, to your point, if there's only two world 0:14:12.890 --> 0:14:17.420 leaders that have arrived to this pre-COP31 summit in Fiji, 0:14:17.900 --> 0:14:21.120 what does that say about how other leaders view, one, 0:14:21.260 --> 0:14:25.729 Australia's energy transition and our plan? Is people not showing 0:14:25.830 --> 0:14:28.570 up a sign that they're all going down a different path, 0:14:28.790 --> 0:14:31.070 down the nuclear path, and potentially they don't want to 0:14:31.110 --> 0:14:34.150 be lectured by someone who's all in on renewables? 0:14:36.220 --> 0:14:38.480 And it's a waste of their leaders' time to make 0:14:38.500 --> 0:14:40.840 their way to the Pacific when those leaders that are 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:42.660 going to go are going to go to the actual 0:14:42.740 --> 0:14:45.380 event which comes in December. So why would they make 0:14:45.420 --> 0:14:48.770 their way to the Pacific and spend useful time doing 0:14:48.830 --> 0:14:52.050 a useless thing, which is what Australia's engaged in at 0:14:52.170 --> 0:14:54.270 the moment? Nothing will come of this. I'll tell you 0:14:54.290 --> 0:14:55.830 what it will do, though. It will draw a giant 0:14:55.930 --> 0:14:58.690 circle around Australia again and get the Pacific Island leaders 0:14:59.030 --> 0:15:01.800 to talk again about Australia's ambitions because they never complain 0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:05.190 about China's and the United States isn't there. So what 0:15:05.230 --> 0:15:07.330 they will do is demand an end to our coal 0:15:07.390 --> 0:15:10.070 and gas exports. And if we didn't have those coal 0:15:10.110 --> 0:15:12.130 and gas exports, we wouldn't have the money that we 0:15:12.790 --> 0:15:16.300 sometimes laid along the Pacific. So, you know, this entire 0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:19.540 thing will be an exercise in self-harm for Australia, costly 0:15:19.580 --> 0:15:22.100 taxpayers and an enormous amount of money which could be 0:15:22.140 --> 0:15:23.260 spent better somewhere else. 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:27.420 Well, let's come back to some domestic issues, Chris. 0:15:27.460 --> 0:15:30.510 And we've seen four interest rate rises that have added 0:15:30.570 --> 0:15:31.890 now $ 172, 000 in total extra repayment costs for a typical 0:15:31.970 --> 0:15:39.210 home loan. Several times the dollar amount that falling values 0:15:39.250 --> 0:15:42.690 have wiped off property values in the past six months. Now, 0:15:42.830 --> 0:15:46.790 I spotted a tweet from Anthony Albanese from 2022. 0:15:46.790 --> 0:15:49.700 This was four years ago. But have a look at this. 0:15:49.770 --> 0:15:53.239 Assuring Australians that the government had a plan. It's been 0:15:53.300 --> 0:15:57.100 doing the rounds again because it obviously hasn't aged well. 0:15:57.760 --> 0:15:59.200 What do you make of those comments? 0:16:01.100 --> 0:16:03.760 Well, I interviewed the Prime Minister, the now Prime Minister, 0:16:03.900 --> 0:16:07.340 the now Treasurer and the now Energy Minister back in 2022. 0:16:07.340 --> 0:16:10.730 And they all had the same theme, and that was 0:16:10.750 --> 0:16:12.690 that they would bring down the cost of energy, that 0:16:12.710 --> 0:16:14.950 they would cut the costs of groceries, that they would 0:16:14.990 --> 0:16:18.290 essentially be able to help people with their mortgage repayments. 0:16:18.370 --> 0:16:21.170 And they were quite critical of Scott Morrison. 0:16:20.890 --> 0:16:21.370 At that time. 0:16:21.410 --> 0:16:23.970 The triple whammy that they talked about of skyrocketing costs 0:16:24.010 --> 0:16:27.150 for essentials and falling wages was and of course the 0:16:27.210 --> 0:16:30.150 rising cost of everything. What they pinned on Scott Morrison 0:16:30.210 --> 0:16:32.820 is what they are responsible for now in government. Now, 0:16:33.380 --> 0:16:35.820 they can try and walk away from these things and 0:16:35.880 --> 0:16:39.080 pretend that they never said these things, but they exist 0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:41.290 on the public record and more and more people are 0:16:41.310 --> 0:16:43.350 waking up to the fact that there's a big difference 0:16:43.390 --> 0:16:46.490 between the things that the Albanese government has said and 0:16:46.530 --> 0:16:48.150 the things that it is delivering. 0:16:49.010 --> 0:16:52.230 The internet doesn't forget and I often think that politicians 0:16:52.270 --> 0:16:53.710 probably wishes that it does. 0:16:53.730 --> 0:16:55.450 I do want to just quickly. 0:16:55.210 --> 0:16:57.420 Touch on One Nation before you go and this was 0:16:57.460 --> 0:17:00.540 around their policy launch in Melbourne. This was over the 0:17:00.580 --> 0:17:03.320 weekend and it was quite the rally at Crown Melbourne 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:07.950 at a 63-page policy booklet titled The Real Deal which. 0:17:08.290 --> 0:17:09.510 Was what they were talking about. 0:17:09.550 --> 0:17:13.010 And it focuses on three key themes, crime, cost of 0:17:13.050 --> 0:17:15.990 living and accountability. There has been a little bit of 0:17:16.050 --> 0:17:19.310 criticism that none of it's been costed. But when you 0:17:19.550 --> 0:17:22.010 looked at the crowd numbers there and you saw how 0:17:22.070 --> 0:17:25.450 passionately Pauline was speaking, it does seem like there's some 0:17:25.490 --> 0:17:26.550 significant momentum. 0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:30.800 Yeah, and you've said it, momentum, Jamie. So that's the 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:33.120 thing that is driving One Nation at the moment. People 0:17:33.140 --> 0:17:35.040 are looking for change. They don't like what they're getting 0:17:35.060 --> 0:17:37.399 out of the two major parties. They're looking elsewhere. And 0:17:37.420 --> 0:17:39.830 I doubt that costings are going to be front and 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:41.830 centre of their mind. What they're doing is looking to 0:17:41.950 --> 0:17:44.590 punish those governments who put them in a position where 0:17:44.609 --> 0:17:47.470 they feel that crime really is a big problem in Victoria, 0:17:47.510 --> 0:17:49.869 which it clearly is. And cost of living is a 0:17:49.910 --> 0:17:53.860 big problem in Victoria, as it is everywhere. And accountability 0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:57.780 is something that people want, not just in Victoria, but everywhere. So, yeah, 0:17:58.160 --> 0:18:00.780 I don't know that costings are going to figure much. 0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:03.229 I would counsel One Nation on this, though. When they 0:18:03.270 --> 0:18:05.830 start trying to ape the policies of the United States 0:18:05.910 --> 0:18:09.730 and calling to lock up former political leaders, you know, 0:18:09.869 --> 0:18:11.889 with the chance of lock them up, lock them up, 0:18:11.950 --> 0:18:14.369 I don't think they're doing themselves any favours at all. 0:18:14.410 --> 0:18:17.430 I don't know that that plays particularly well in Australia. 0:18:17.830 --> 0:18:19.570 And it does look like you're going to use the 0:18:19.609 --> 0:18:22.390 political system to do something that the judiciary should do. 0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:25.340 I think we're well advised to keep those things separated. 0:18:26.390 --> 0:18:29.110 Chris, are you concerned at all that the Coalition aren't 0:18:29.190 --> 0:18:32.470 further in front in Victoria? We're now two months to 0:18:32.510 --> 0:18:34.930 go until the election, and we just saw on Chris 0:18:34.950 --> 0:18:38.899 Kenny's show the roads are filled with potholes, the crime's 0:18:38.940 --> 0:18:42.280 out of control. Do you think that the Liberals should 0:18:42.300 --> 0:18:43.439 be a little bit further ahead? 0:18:43.460 --> 0:18:47.800 Well, Jamie, I'm not concerned because I'm non-partisan, but the 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:50.020 Coalition should be concerned, and every time I come on 0:18:50.060 --> 0:18:52.480 these programs, people talk to me about the threat to 0:18:52.520 --> 0:18:55.310 Labor from One Nation and The real and present danger 0:18:55.510 --> 0:18:58.510 from One Nation is first and foremost to the coalition. 0:18:58.570 --> 0:19:01.100 We've seen that in what's happened to its polling results. 0:19:01.580 --> 0:19:03.500 And it needs to lift its head a little further 0:19:03.540 --> 0:19:05.620 if it's going to win government in its own right 0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:08.330 in the lower house in Victoria, which it must do. 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:13.080 if it does find itself in a coalition essentially with 0:19:13.200 --> 0:19:15.619 One Nation, it's going to find governing very difficult and 0:19:15.660 --> 0:19:20.810 making difficult decisions, which is what Victoria needs, extremely difficult. 0:19:20.970 --> 0:19:23.910 So the coalition has to do a lot better from here. 0:19:23.950 --> 0:19:26.770 But that is such a seminal test in Victoria. It 0:19:26.810 --> 0:19:29.109 will mark whether or not the coalition actually has a 0:19:29.170 --> 0:19:32.080 future in Australian politics. If they can win in Victoria, 0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:34.820 then it does. If they fail there with all the 0:19:34.859 --> 0:19:37.320 conditions which are now running in their favour. 0:19:37.810 --> 0:19:38.450 then it will be. 0:19:38.410 --> 0:19:41.919 A sign that perhaps the Coalition is a dead letter 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:43.180 in politics in Australia. 0:19:44.140 --> 0:19:46.820 Yeah, they've got a big task ahead. Chris Ullman, I'll 0:19:46.859 --> 0:19:50.629 leave it there. Thank you so much. All right. 0:19:50.690 --> 0:19:55.030 I want to revisit the significant backlash from Australian small businesses. 0:19:55.210 --> 0:19:57.520 If you're like me and were scrolling social media over 0:19:57.560 --> 0:20:00.000 the weekend, it was hard to miss the anger from 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:02.840 business owners who say they are getting a hit at 0:20:02.960 --> 0:20:06.859 every turn. And one of those frustrated businessmen is chef 0:20:07.020 --> 0:20:07.480 David Lee. 0:20:09.030 --> 0:20:13.169 Does the government actually want small business in Australia? I mean, honestly, 0:20:13.270 --> 0:20:16.350 everything they're doing is to try to crush small business. 0:20:16.550 --> 0:20:18.870 Does the government not want small business in this country? 0:20:19.250 --> 0:20:23.590 Does the Labor government not want private enterprise? Because it 0:20:23.630 --> 0:20:25.130 sure looks like they don't. 0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:29.580 And I'm pleased to say David joins me now on 0:20:29.660 --> 0:20:30.200 the desk. 0:20:30.460 --> 0:20:31.720 David, welcome. 0:20:31.740 --> 0:20:32.290 Thank you. 0:20:32.440 --> 0:20:35.850 I must say, I saw your social media video, as 0:20:35.950 --> 0:20:39.110 I know hundreds of thousands of other people did, and 0:20:39.590 --> 0:20:42.730 you spoke just so passionately and from the heart about 0:20:43.210 --> 0:20:45.850 what these changes are going to do to you. Just 0:20:45.890 --> 0:20:48.830 tell us about some of the hardship that you have 0:20:48.869 --> 0:20:52.090 been facing and why this is so significant to remove 0:20:52.150 --> 0:20:53.570 those ban surcharge. 0:20:53.710 --> 0:20:56.890 So that reel was a real off-the-cuff moment. I'd been 0:20:56.910 --> 0:21:00.159 doing a series of reels on how tough small business 0:21:00.260 --> 0:21:06.580 is with constant price increases, constant wage increases, payday super. 0:21:06.800 --> 0:21:09.439 It's honestly like a death by a thousand pinpricks for 0:21:09.480 --> 0:21:13.500 most small businesses. and then comes along a credit card 0:21:13.520 --> 0:21:16.379 surcharge ban along with an interest rate rise and then 0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:19.840 the ATO decides that well we're not going to accept 0:21:19.859 --> 0:21:23.490 credit cards anymore it's untenable for you know us to 0:21:23.530 --> 0:21:25.590 do it but small business is expected to. 0:21:26.510 --> 0:21:29.550 So tell us about what the impact would be to 0:21:29.630 --> 0:21:31.729 a business like yours and what you're also hearing from 0:21:31.770 --> 0:21:32.790 other small businesses. 0:21:33.230 --> 0:21:36.080 So what I heard on the day of the ATO 0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:38.359 decision was a lot of the people I know and 0:21:38.380 --> 0:21:42.050 I get contacted by hundreds of small business owners every day, 0:21:42.430 --> 0:21:44.930 they're terrified about how are they going to meet their 0:21:44.950 --> 0:21:49.190 cash flow obligations to the ATO, for Payday Super. A 0:21:49.230 --> 0:21:51.230 lot of them are really, really worried. And then the 0:21:51.270 --> 0:21:54.950 surcharge ban as well. Can they absorb the tens of 0:21:55.050 --> 0:21:58.330 thousands of dollars that's going to cost a business each year? 0:21:59.070 --> 0:22:00.510 They're just going to have to put their pricing up. 0:22:01.590 --> 0:22:04.210 Tell us how hard it is to manage cash flow 0:22:04.650 --> 0:22:05.380 in this economy. 0:22:06.260 --> 0:22:07.880 There were times there over the last three or four 0:22:07.920 --> 0:22:11.050 years where Managing cash flow was almost impossible. There were 0:22:11.109 --> 0:22:15.379 daily or weekly increases in, you know, products that we 0:22:15.500 --> 0:22:18.320 use regularly like chicken or things like that. Wages were 0:22:18.340 --> 0:22:20.720 going up. Trying to manage cash flow is an absolute 0:22:20.780 --> 0:22:23.700