WEBVTT - The fight over Mardi Gras’ future 0:00:04.440 --> 0:00:07.280 It's Australia's loudest, proudest celebration. 0:00:12.119 --> 0:00:16.079 I'm feeling completely path look at all these people, happy 0:00:16.160 --> 0:00:17.200 Marnygra everyone. 0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:22.920 But two weeks out from this year's Marti Gras, there 0:00:22.960 --> 0:00:26.400 are claims a rebel group has hijacked the event. From 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:30.240 inside the community, we hear from the two groups at 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:37.080 war over the future of the parade. I'm Nicole Johnston 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:42.200 and you're listening to seven AM today Peter Murphy from 0:00:42.280 --> 0:00:46.240 Protect Marti Gras and Charlie Murphy from Pride in Protest 0:00:46.680 --> 0:00:54.040 on the battle threatening to tear Marti Gras apart. It's Thursday, 0:00:54.400 --> 0:01:02.680 February twelve. Peter, you're a seventy eight, which means that 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:05.600 you're one of the original participants who was at that 0:01:05.800 --> 0:01:09.400 very first Marti Gras march in nineteen seventy eight. You're 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:12.760 now part of a group. It's called Protect Marty Gras. 0:01:12.840 --> 0:01:15.720 It was set up last year. Why was it set 0:01:15.800 --> 0:01:18.040 up and why do you think the Marti Gras needs 0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:19.560 protecting and who from? 0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:23.880 Well, unfortunately Marti Gras needs protecting from a group of 0:01:23.880 --> 0:01:28.000 people in our own community. The reason I helped set 0:01:28.040 --> 0:01:31.440 up Protect Marti Gras was because the report at the 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:35.520 annual general meeting that year was about the losses that 0:01:35.600 --> 0:01:39.640 have been incurred and how dire really the finances were. 0:01:39.840 --> 0:01:42.640 And at the same time we heard that news, we 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:46.440 had a group of people really assaulting the rest of 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:50.360 the membership about their attitude to transgender people or about 0:01:50.720 --> 0:01:57.040 Palestine prisons the military. So I could see that if 0:01:57.040 --> 0:02:02.160 we didn't really stabilize Marti Gras as a community project, 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:05.920 we were going to lose it. Because once the people 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:08.880 who help us, you know, put it on such a very, 0:02:08.960 --> 0:02:13.240 very big event, the sponsors see trouble and then they 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:15.760 find themselves being accused of being on one side or 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:18.320 the other of a fight that they don't quite understand. 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:23.200 They'll just withdraw. And really, I think without the broader 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:27.360 support we get from organizations and the wider community and 0:02:27.400 --> 0:02:30.920 the government, we couldn't put on the parade. And the 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:33.760 parade is the best thing we've ever done as far 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:35.840 as I know. You know, way back in seventy eight, 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:39.040 I never imagined seventy five demonstrators have been arrested and 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:43.000 the latest clash between police and gay liberation protesters in Sydney. 0:02:43.440 --> 0:02:46.440 But by nine ninety eight I knew that this was 0:02:46.520 --> 0:02:48.400 a brilliant achievement of our community. 0:02:48.960 --> 0:02:49.960 Oh well, look at this. 0:02:50.440 --> 0:02:52.880 It started as a political demonstration and now it's a 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:54.760 very different kind of arresting site. 0:02:54.960 --> 0:02:56.400 Hi, swing as the time, bob. 0:02:56.280 --> 0:02:59.160 Down and welcome to the twentieth anniversary Sydney Gay and 0:02:59.240 --> 0:03:02.440 Lesbian Marigo Operate. It's one of the best ways that 0:03:02.480 --> 0:03:06.480 we as a group of people in society can communicate 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:09.480 with the rest of the society. And it's very very positive, 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:13.600 inclusive and inspiring. And now we've got a group of 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:16.359 people in our own community who want to tear that apart. 0:03:16.800 --> 0:03:20.000 That's why it's so important that we do get together 0:03:20.360 --> 0:03:22.760 and realize the value of the Marti Gras and the 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:28.399 parade itself especially, and to make sure it really blossoms 0:03:28.440 --> 0:03:30.040 again and we get past this. 0:03:30.600 --> 0:03:34.240 You've described the other group, Pride in Protest, as warlike, 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:35.680 what do you mean by that? 0:03:36.280 --> 0:03:38.680 Well, you know, I've been in a lot of politics 0:03:38.720 --> 0:03:42.960 over the decades and I know the tactics. So this 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:46.280 is sort of a let's take no prisoner's attitude. It's 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:50.160 all verbal, it's all maneuvers with rules. It's not in 0:03:50.200 --> 0:03:54.120 a physical violence or anything like that. But Pride and 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:57.240 Protests is better organized than anybody else, I can assure 0:03:57.280 --> 0:04:00.840 you with that. So at the recent age in December, 0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:04.840 for instance, they came along with I think seven resolutions 0:04:04.840 --> 0:04:07.920 that they wanted carried, and they already had all their 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:11.600 speakers prepared, they had their notes on their phones, and 0:04:11.880 --> 0:04:15.160 the votes were very close. But we're still seeing this 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:19.040 fight going on, for instance, about the idea of transphobia 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:23.280 being a prominent feature of all Marti graph floats. And 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:27.200 of course it's ridiculous to tell people in a parade 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:30.280 like this that they have to change their message depending 0:04:30.880 --> 0:04:34.680 whatever organization they come from. So you know, that's the 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:38.640 sort of I think insincerity and the sort of tricky 0:04:38.680 --> 0:04:40.520 maneuvering that we have to deal with all the time. 0:04:41.160 --> 0:04:44.760 Like I'm so shocked that people like me can be 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:50.280 defined by Pride in Protest as transphobic, supporter of genocide, 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:53.919 things that are totally ridiculous, And we only have to 0:04:53.960 --> 0:04:56.640 think for half a second, and you know that, how 0:04:56.640 --> 0:04:58.960 could anyone say that the Sydney gay and there's been 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:00.920 Mardi Gras transphobic. 0:05:01.200 --> 0:05:02.839 Could you tell us a bit more about some of 0:05:02.880 --> 0:05:06.400 these motions though, because they say that they just want 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:10.200 to support trans rights. Doesn't that sound reasonable? 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:14.000 Yeah, we all support trans rights. But if you're wanting 0:05:14.040 --> 0:05:16.760 to undermine the organization or just sort of make life 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:20.719 hard for the committee or the board, then you'll put 0:05:20.720 --> 0:05:24.080 a twist in it, like a demand that everybody says 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:28.120 the you know, their message is transphobia. That's it. Well, 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:30.440 no one I'm sure on the Mardi Gras board would 0:05:30.440 --> 0:05:33.760 try to dictate to people what they should say, what 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:38.039 they should wear, and so on. So why would we 0:05:38.160 --> 0:05:42.160 let Pride in Protests tell everyone what to do? Pride 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:44.799 and Protests have a float, they are in the parade 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:48.400 and they can say everything they want to say without restriction. 0:05:49.520 --> 0:05:52.360 But they're trying to say what other people should say, 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:54.800 and they're also trying to restrict other people from even 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:55.760 being in the parade. 0:05:55.960 --> 0:05:58.560 Peter, we have all of these tensions in the Mardi 0:05:58.600 --> 0:06:02.520 Gras community, and at the same time it is struggling financially. 0:06:02.839 --> 0:06:06.680 We've seen the cancelation of the After Party. Are you 0:06:06.800 --> 0:06:09.480 worried about the future of Mardi Gras? 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:14.240 We are in a very volatile world. Even though we've 0:06:14.240 --> 0:06:17.480 come a long way. In Australia and New South Wales 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:20.200 was the leader in that and the Marti Gras was 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:23.760 one of the really important elements of that. We still 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:30.160 have violence happening to LGBTQI people in schools, at parties, 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:34.480 on the streets. We've had people using grinder to go 0:06:34.560 --> 0:06:37.320 and find people and bash them badly and rob them. 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:42.200 So we have got a continuing problem in the society, 0:06:42.480 --> 0:06:44.920 in our culture, but we need to deal with it 0:06:44.920 --> 0:06:49.320 by getting more and more agreement in the community about 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:51.440 why that's wrong and what we have to do to 0:06:51.520 --> 0:06:54.920 help people move beyond that. All of the gains we've 0:06:54.960 --> 0:06:58.680 got in the last twenty years, especially the marriage equality, 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:02.440 it was carried by by people in Mardi Gras, as 0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:05.520 well as by other direct measures and rallies and all 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:06.000 of that. 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:10.080 The overriding theme you get the feeling is safe sex 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:14.400 marriage and marriage the quality sixteen of the one hundred 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:17.120 and thirty four floats that are lined up behind me 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:20.920 and divided to the issue of gay marriage, there is. 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:24.800 But the basic message was this community is about love, 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:29.400 it's about respect, it's about embracing people who are different 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:33.840 and celebrating our difference. And we are now being hit 0:07:33.920 --> 0:07:39.280 in a mistaken way by people who say that somehow 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:40.400 we are the problem. 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:44.080 And Peter, do you have a message directly for the 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:45.320 Pride in Protest group. 0:07:46.240 --> 0:07:48.760 Yes, I think that Pride in Protests has got a 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:52.880 lot of basically good instincts and they do understand that 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:55.680 there are real dangers for our community and that we're 0:07:55.720 --> 0:07:58.880 part of a bigger problem in the world about fairness, 0:07:58.880 --> 0:08:02.600 equality and democracy. But Martin Gras is a cultural event 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:06.720 and it's not to be just transformed into some kind 0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:09.960 of narrow march down the street with megaphones and banners 0:08:10.000 --> 0:08:13.760 and chanting, and it will really destroy Martin Graus that idea. 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:16.200 And there's plenty of people who want to work on 0:08:16.280 --> 0:08:19.560 all of the issues they're raising in a better framework, 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:23.280 and I just really want people to get involved as 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:26.160 much as possible in the festival, especially in the parade 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:29.280 and the fair day, and really show that we want 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:33.680 to continue with this inclusive, positive embracing attitude. 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:37.920 Peter, thank you very much for joining us, Thanks very 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:41.320 much for having us on coming up, we hear from 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:53.520 the other side Pride in Protest Charlie, why did you 0:08:53.720 --> 0:08:56.360 form Pride in Protest and what did you want it 0:08:56.400 --> 0:08:56.960 to achieve? 0:08:57.240 --> 0:09:00.760 Well, Broughton Project was formed in two thousand an eighteen 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:05.280 out of a group of activists who had been marching 0:09:05.320 --> 0:09:07.640 in the Mantiograph parade for a number of years called 0:09:08.000 --> 0:09:13.000 No Pride in Detention. What we had looked to when 0:09:13.040 --> 0:09:18.599 we started was to pursue LGBT rights and the advancements 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:21.240 of LGBT rights. One way in which we did that 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:24.840 was participating in Marti Gras because of what I think 0:09:24.920 --> 0:09:29.320 is a commonly shared community feeling that Mardi Gras has 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:33.120 been less about the advancements of those rights and more 0:09:33.240 --> 0:09:37.240 about centering those people that actually restrict those rights from us. 0:09:37.600 --> 0:09:40.680 If they asked me not to participate, I'll respect that, 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:43.240 But the police force, I think that's this conversation we'll 0:09:43.280 --> 0:09:45.160 have to have because, as I said, I think it's 0:09:45.200 --> 0:09:50.000 an important symbolic event for the community and my organization, 0:09:50.600 --> 0:09:54.760 and after twenty years, to stop now would be I 0:09:54.760 --> 0:09:55.560 think a travesty. 0:09:56.520 --> 0:09:58.480 Since we have been a part of the Marti grad 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:03.400 membership in the organization, we've also grown larger as an organization. 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:09.800 We hold regular rallies for LGBT rights, specifically for trans rights. 0:10:10.320 --> 0:10:13.680 We put in submissions to the new type of Parliament 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:18.080 or when they have reviews on things like anti discrimination laws, 0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:22.360 We've run campaigns to have trans women who have been 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:27.200 in detention in male facilities here in this country be released. 0:10:27.320 --> 0:10:31.520 So we take on a number of issues that concern 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:36.280 LGBT people and other oppressed groups and try to advance 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:37.000 their rights. 0:10:37.600 --> 0:10:40.800 So what do you say to the claims from some 0:10:40.960 --> 0:10:45.120 people that your group Pride in Protest has hijacked the 0:10:45.160 --> 0:10:45.720 Marti graph. 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:50.040 Well, I think those comments are a bit rich, especially 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:53.199 when it comes from someone like the New South Wales 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:57.000 Liberals Shadow Minister for the Arts Chris Wrath. You know, 0:10:57.080 --> 0:11:01.600 we are LGBT people. We have a right to express 0:11:02.400 --> 0:11:05.000 what we want Mardi Gras to be because the community 0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:08.800 are ultimately the owners of that. Now me on a 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:13.160 personal level, I have been involved in Mardi Gras as 0:11:13.160 --> 0:11:17.920 an organization twenty thirteen, I was a staff member for 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:21.280 five years, I was a board member for two. For 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:23.840 most of my adult life, I have been someone who 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:27.040 has been invested with the planning, the EXECUSM and the 0:11:27.040 --> 0:11:31.000 politics of Mardi Gras. I think it's very unfair that, 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:34.280 for one, there are political leaders who think that they 0:11:34.320 --> 0:11:38.120 have the ability to say who is allowed and who 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:41.480 isn't allowed, who express themselves within Marti Gras, and I 0:11:41.520 --> 0:11:44.240 also think that it's disappointing that there are some sections 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:47.040 of the membership that think that they have the right 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:48.040 to say that as well. 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:52.560 But there have been some criticisms from even inside your community. 0:11:52.679 --> 0:11:56.720 I mean, Peter Murphy has said there's been warlike behavior. 0:11:57.200 --> 0:12:02.240 Do you think there has been any aggressive actional behavior 0:12:02.320 --> 0:12:04.280 towards some of the members or the membership. 0:12:04.559 --> 0:12:07.800 Well, I hear a lot of these claims that have 0:12:07.920 --> 0:12:10.079 been made about it, but I don't actually hear a 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:13.320 lot of discussions about the actual issues that are brought 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:17.200 up there. With the motion that had been passed, that 0:12:17.400 --> 0:12:21.160 motion had said that we want to stay to politicians. 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:24.040 If they are not going to act on anty discrimination 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:29.520 legislation and reform for the LGBT community in a timely manner, 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:33.360 then we don't expect that those politicians should be able 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:37.800 to march in the parade if those commitments are not met. 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:41.439 Many people in the community find out a very reasonable 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:45.320 thing to ask and to expect of politicians that if 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:49.240 they are going to have their media moment in the parade, 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:53.120 that they need to actually be protecting the people who 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:57.600 are marching alongside them. I don't think that it's fair 0:12:57.760 --> 0:13:01.680 to say that because people have those contents, that those 0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:04.920 concerns should be treated as a form of aggression. 0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:09.840 Charlie. Aside from the politicians, though, what about excluding police 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:14.280 and some sponsors. Could that actually go against the Marti 0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:19.199 Grams message of being open minded, accepting, inclusive. 0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:23.319 Well, the question when it comes to inclusion and exclusion 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:27.800 is what is the actual thing that's been included and excluded? 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:31.520 And I think when people talk about this, and especially 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:36.800 when people weaponize this term inclusion, what they are actually 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:42.960 describing is the inclusion of particular institutions. The list of 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:48.079 reasons adds to why the police have not been friends 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:53.520 to our community but rather have been active in oppressing 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:58.400 the community are numerous. Now, I think that we actually 0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:02.720 have to stay that we are not going to permit 0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:08.320 these types of institutions to pink wash these kinds of 0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:11.920 crimes that they commit by being in the Mardi Gras parade. 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:14.640 There has to be some set of standards, and I 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:18.240 think that this weaponization of the words of inclusion and 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:22.720 exclusion totally miss the actual politics that's going on. 0:14:23.400 --> 0:14:27.280 So the Marti Gras community is divided right now, how 0:14:27.320 --> 0:14:29.080 do you make sure that it has a future. 0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:35.800 Marti Gras had always been about the activism of our community, 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:40.400 standing up for and saying that the power of our 0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:45.280 community belongs in the community itself. Now, when you say 0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:48.000 that there is the vision in the community, I don't 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:50.760 think it's fair to say that to act like the 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:55.200 LGBT community is a monolith. It never has been and 0:14:55.280 --> 0:14:58.600 it never will. But there is a reason why we 0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:04.520 have these processes and the organization of institutions where we 0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:08.920 are allowed to debate the ideas, and certain ideas win. 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:12.920 That is the process that we go through to determine 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:14.800 what we are going to be and that's what the 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:17.160 protest will be continuing going forward. 0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:22.720 Charlie, thanks for speaking with us today. 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:23.760 Thank you, Nicole. 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:37.080 Also in the news, hundreds of people gathered on the 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:39.920 lawns in front of Parliament House in Camberra yesterday to 0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:44.080 protest the visit of Israeli President Isaac Hertzog. The protesters 0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:48.560 were joined by several federal politicians, including ACT Senator David 0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:53.200 Polcock and Green's leader Larissa Waters. Prime Minister Anthony Alberesi 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:57.240 met President Herzog and said it was very constructive. In 0:15:57.280 --> 0:16:00.680 response to cross bench questions Albernese that he raised the 0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:04.480 twenty twenty four Israeli strike that killed Australian aid worker 0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:08.600 Zombie Francom and six World Central Kitchen colleagues in Gaza, 0:16:09.120 --> 0:16:13.560 saying Australia is pressing for full accountability, including any appropriate 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:18.080 criminal charges. And Rental affordability in Australia has worsened at 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:21.560 a rapid pace, with new data showing rents have increased 0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:24.320 more than two and a half times faster than wages 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:27.800 over the past five years. The figures from property data 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:32.080 analysis company Totality says national rents climbed forty three point 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:36.000 nine percent from twenty twenty to twenty twenty five, compared 0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:38.840 with wage growth of seventeen and a half percent over 0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:41.960 the same period. The data also finds that tenants are 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:44.360 now paying on an average a third of their pre 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:47.720 tax income on rent, which it says is the highest 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:51.760 on record. I'm Nicole Johnston. This is seven am. Thanks 0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:52.240 for listening.