Speaker 1: It's Australia's loudest, proudest celebration.
Speaker 2: I'm feeling completely path look at all these people, happy
Speaker 2: Marnygra everyone.
Speaker 1: But two weeks out from this year's Marti Gras, there
Speaker 1: are claims a rebel group has hijacked the event. From
Speaker 1: inside the community, we hear from the two groups at
Speaker 1: war over the future of the parade. I'm Nicole Johnston
Speaker 1: and you're listening to seven AM today Peter Murphy from
Speaker 1: Protect Marti Gras and Charlie Murphy from Pride in Protest
Speaker 1: on the battle threatening to tear Marti Gras apart. It's Thursday,
Speaker 1: February twelve. Peter, you're a seventy eight, which means that
Speaker 1: you're one of the original participants who was at that
Speaker 1: very first Marti Gras march in nineteen seventy eight. You're
Speaker 1: now part of a group. It's called Protect Marty Gras.
Speaker 1: It was set up last year. Why was it set
Speaker 1: up and why do you think the Marti Gras needs
Speaker 1: protecting and who from?
Speaker 3: Well, unfortunately Marti Gras needs protecting from a group of
Speaker 3: people in our own community. The reason I helped set
Speaker 3: up Protect Marti Gras was because the report at the
Speaker 3: annual general meeting that year was about the losses that
Speaker 3: have been incurred and how dire really the finances were.
Speaker 3: And at the same time we heard that news, we
Speaker 3: had a group of people really assaulting the rest of
Speaker 3: the membership about their attitude to transgender people or about
Speaker 3: Palestine prisons the military. So I could see that if
Speaker 3: we didn't really stabilize Marti Gras as a community project,
Speaker 3: we were going to lose it. Because once the people
Speaker 3: who help us, you know, put it on such a very,
Speaker 3: very big event, the sponsors see trouble and then they
Speaker 3: find themselves being accused of being on one side or
Speaker 3: the other of a fight that they don't quite understand.
Speaker 3: They'll just withdraw. And really, I think without the broader
Speaker 3: support we get from organizations and the wider community and
Speaker 3: the government, we couldn't put on the parade. And the
Speaker 3: parade is the best thing we've ever done as far
Speaker 3: as I know. You know, way back in seventy eight,
Speaker 3: I never imagined seventy five demonstrators have been arrested and
Speaker 3: the latest clash between police and gay liberation protesters in Sydney.
Speaker 3: But by nine ninety eight I knew that this was
Speaker 3: a brilliant achievement of our community.
Speaker 1: Oh well, look at this.
Speaker 4: It started as a political demonstration and now it's a
Speaker 4: very different kind of arresting site.
Speaker 1: Hi, swing as the time, bob.
Speaker 3: Down and welcome to the twentieth anniversary Sydney Gay and
Speaker 3: Lesbian Marigo Operate. It's one of the best ways that
Speaker 3: we as a group of people in society can communicate
Speaker 3: with the rest of the society. And it's very very positive,
Speaker 3: inclusive and inspiring. And now we've got a group of
Speaker 3: people in our own community who want to tear that apart.
Speaker 3: That's why it's so important that we do get together
Speaker 3: and realize the value of the Marti Gras and the
Speaker 3: parade itself especially, and to make sure it really blossoms
Speaker 3: again and we get past this.
Speaker 1: You've described the other group, Pride in Protest, as warlike,
Speaker 1: what do you mean by that?
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I've been in a lot of politics
Speaker 3: over the decades and I know the tactics. So this
Speaker 3: is sort of a let's take no prisoner's attitude. It's
Speaker 3: all verbal, it's all maneuvers with rules. It's not in
Speaker 3: a physical violence or anything like that. But Pride and
Speaker 3: Protests is better organized than anybody else, I can assure
Speaker 3: you with that. So at the recent age in December,
Speaker 3: for instance, they came along with I think seven resolutions
Speaker 3: that they wanted carried, and they already had all their
Speaker 3: speakers prepared, they had their notes on their phones, and
Speaker 3: the votes were very close. But we're still seeing this
Speaker 3: fight going on, for instance, about the idea of transphobia
Speaker 3: being a prominent feature of all Marti graph floats. And
Speaker 3: of course it's ridiculous to tell people in a parade
Speaker 3: like this that they have to change their message depending
Speaker 3: whatever organization they come from. So you know, that's the
Speaker 3: sort of I think insincerity and the sort of tricky
Speaker 3: maneuvering that we have to deal with all the time.
Speaker 3: Like I'm so shocked that people like me can be
Speaker 3: defined by Pride in Protest as transphobic, supporter of genocide,
Speaker 3: things that are totally ridiculous, And we only have to
Speaker 3: think for half a second, and you know that, how
Speaker 3: could anyone say that the Sydney gay and there's been
Speaker 3: Mardi Gras transphobic.
Speaker 1: Could you tell us a bit more about some of
Speaker 1: these motions though, because they say that they just want
Speaker 1: to support trans rights. Doesn't that sound reasonable?
Speaker 3: Yeah, we all support trans rights. But if you're wanting
Speaker 3: to undermine the organization or just sort of make life
Speaker 3: hard for the committee or the board, then you'll put
Speaker 3: a twist in it, like a demand that everybody says
Speaker 3: the you know, their message is transphobia. That's it. Well,
Speaker 3: no one I'm sure on the Mardi Gras board would
Speaker 3: try to dictate to people what they should say, what
Speaker 3: they should wear, and so on. So why would we
Speaker 3: let Pride in Protests tell everyone what to do? Pride
Speaker 3: and Protests have a float, they are in the parade
Speaker 3: and they can say everything they want to say without restriction.
Speaker 3: But they're trying to say what other people should say,
Speaker 3: and they're also trying to restrict other people from even
Speaker 3: being in the parade.
Speaker 1: Peter, we have all of these tensions in the Mardi
Speaker 1: Gras community, and at the same time it is struggling financially.
Speaker 1: We've seen the cancelation of the After Party. Are you
Speaker 1: worried about the future of Mardi Gras?
Speaker 3: We are in a very volatile world. Even though we've
Speaker 3: come a long way. In Australia and New South Wales
Speaker 3: was the leader in that and the Marti Gras was
Speaker 3: one of the really important elements of that. We still
Speaker 3: have violence happening to LGBTQI people in schools, at parties,
Speaker 3: on the streets. We've had people using grinder to go
Speaker 3: and find people and bash them badly and rob them.
Speaker 3: So we have got a continuing problem in the society,
Speaker 3: in our culture, but we need to deal with it
Speaker 3: by getting more and more agreement in the community about
Speaker 3: why that's wrong and what we have to do to
Speaker 3: help people move beyond that. All of the gains we've
Speaker 3: got in the last twenty years, especially the marriage equality,
Speaker 3: it was carried by by people in Mardi Gras, as
Speaker 3: well as by other direct measures and rallies and all
Speaker 3: of that.
Speaker 4: The overriding theme you get the feeling is safe sex
Speaker 4: marriage and marriage the quality sixteen of the one hundred
Speaker 4: and thirty four floats that are lined up behind me
Speaker 4: and divided to the issue of gay marriage, there is.
Speaker 3: But the basic message was this community is about love,
Speaker 3: it's about respect, it's about embracing people who are different
Speaker 3: and celebrating our difference. And we are now being hit
Speaker 3: in a mistaken way by people who say that somehow
Speaker 3: we are the problem.
Speaker 1: And Peter, do you have a message directly for the
Speaker 1: Pride in Protest group.
Speaker 3: Yes, I think that Pride in Protests has got a
Speaker 3: lot of basically good instincts and they do understand that
Speaker 3: there are real dangers for our community and that we're
Speaker 3: part of a bigger problem in the world about fairness,
Speaker 3: equality and democracy. But Martin Gras is a cultural event
Speaker 3: and it's not to be just transformed into some kind
Speaker 3: of narrow march down the street with megaphones and banners
Speaker 3: and chanting, and it will really destroy Martin Graus that idea.
Speaker 3: And there's plenty of people who want to work on
Speaker 3: all of the issues they're raising in a better framework,
Speaker 3: and I just really want people to get involved as
Speaker 3: much as possible in the festival, especially in the parade
Speaker 3: and the fair day, and really show that we want
Speaker 3: to continue with this inclusive, positive embracing attitude.
Speaker 1: Peter, thank you very much for joining us, Thanks very
Speaker 1: much for having us on coming up, we hear from
Speaker 1: the other side Pride in Protest Charlie, why did you
Speaker 1: form Pride in Protest and what did you want it
Speaker 1: to achieve?
Speaker 2: Well, Broughton Project was formed in two thousand an eighteen
Speaker 2: out of a group of activists who had been marching
Speaker 2: in the Mantiograph parade for a number of years called
Speaker 2: No Pride in Detention. What we had looked to when
Speaker 2: we started was to pursue LGBT rights and the advancements
Speaker 2: of LGBT rights. One way in which we did that
Speaker 2: was participating in Marti Gras because of what I think
Speaker 2: is a commonly shared community feeling that Mardi Gras has
Speaker 2: been less about the advancements of those rights and more
Speaker 2: about centering those people that actually restrict those rights from us.
Speaker 5: If they asked me not to participate, I'll respect that,
Speaker 5: But the police force, I think that's this conversation we'll
Speaker 5: have to have because, as I said, I think it's
Speaker 5: an important symbolic event for the community and my organization,
Speaker 5: and after twenty years, to stop now would be I
Speaker 5: think a travesty.
Speaker 2: Since we have been a part of the Marti grad
Speaker 2: membership in the organization, we've also grown larger as an organization.
Speaker 2: We hold regular rallies for LGBT rights, specifically for trans rights.
Speaker 2: We put in submissions to the new type of Parliament
Speaker 2: or when they have reviews on things like anti discrimination laws,
Speaker 2: We've run campaigns to have trans women who have been
Speaker 2: in detention in male facilities here in this country be released.
Speaker 2: So we take on a number of issues that concern
Speaker 2: LGBT people and other oppressed groups and try to advance
Speaker 2: their rights.
Speaker 1: So what do you say to the claims from some
Speaker 1: people that your group Pride in Protest has hijacked the
Speaker 1: Marti graph.
Speaker 2: Well, I think those comments are a bit rich, especially
Speaker 2: when it comes from someone like the New South Wales
Speaker 2: Liberals Shadow Minister for the Arts Chris Wrath. You know,
Speaker 2: we are LGBT people. We have a right to express
Speaker 2: what we want Mardi Gras to be because the community
Speaker 2: are ultimately the owners of that. Now me on a
Speaker 2: personal level, I have been involved in Mardi Gras as
Speaker 2: an organization twenty thirteen, I was a staff member for
Speaker 2: five years, I was a board member for two. For
Speaker 2: most of my adult life, I have been someone who
Speaker 2: has been invested with the planning, the EXECUSM and the
Speaker 2: politics of Mardi Gras. I think it's very unfair that,
Speaker 2: for one, there are political leaders who think that they
Speaker 2: have the ability to say who is allowed and who
Speaker 2: isn't allowed, who express themselves within Marti Gras, and I
Speaker 2: also think that it's disappointing that there are some sections
Speaker 2: of the membership that think that they have the right
Speaker 2: to say that as well.
Speaker 1: But there have been some criticisms from even inside your community.
Speaker 1: I mean, Peter Murphy has said there's been warlike behavior.
Speaker 1: Do you think there has been any aggressive actional behavior
Speaker 1: towards some of the members or the membership.
Speaker 2: Well, I hear a lot of these claims that have
Speaker 2: been made about it, but I don't actually hear a
Speaker 2: lot of discussions about the actual issues that are brought
Speaker 2: up there. With the motion that had been passed, that
Speaker 2: motion had said that we want to stay to politicians.
Speaker 2: If they are not going to act on anty discrimination
Speaker 2: legislation and reform for the LGBT community in a timely manner,
Speaker 2: then we don't expect that those politicians should be able
Speaker 2: to march in the parade if those commitments are not met.
Speaker 2: Many people in the community find out a very reasonable
Speaker 2: thing to ask and to expect of politicians that if
Speaker 2: they are going to have their media moment in the parade,
Speaker 2: that they need to actually be protecting the people who
Speaker 2: are marching alongside them. I don't think that it's fair
Speaker 2: to say that because people have those contents, that those
Speaker 2: concerns should be treated as a form of aggression.
Speaker 1: Charlie. Aside from the politicians, though, what about excluding police
Speaker 1: and some sponsors. Could that actually go against the Marti
Speaker 1: Grams message of being open minded, accepting, inclusive.
Speaker 2: Well, the question when it comes to inclusion and exclusion
Speaker 2: is what is the actual thing that's been included and excluded?
Speaker 2: And I think when people talk about this, and especially
Speaker 2: when people weaponize this term inclusion, what they are actually
Speaker 2: describing is the inclusion of particular institutions. The list of
Speaker 2: reasons adds to why the police have not been friends
Speaker 2: to our community but rather have been active in oppressing
Speaker 2: the community are numerous. Now, I think that we actually
Speaker 2: have to stay that we are not going to permit
Speaker 2: these types of institutions to pink wash these kinds of
Speaker 2: crimes that they commit by being in the Mardi Gras parade.
Speaker 2: There has to be some set of standards, and I
Speaker 2: think that this weaponization of the words of inclusion and
Speaker 2: exclusion totally miss the actual politics that's going on.
Speaker 1: So the Marti Gras community is divided right now, how
Speaker 1: do you make sure that it has a future.
Speaker 2: Marti Gras had always been about the activism of our community,
Speaker 2: standing up for and saying that the power of our
Speaker 2: community belongs in the community itself. Now, when you say
Speaker 2: that there is the vision in the community, I don't
Speaker 2: think it's fair to say that to act like the
Speaker 2: LGBT community is a monolith. It never has been and
Speaker 2: it never will. But there is a reason why we
Speaker 2: have these processes and the organization of institutions where we
Speaker 2: are allowed to debate the ideas, and certain ideas win.
Speaker 2: That is the process that we go through to determine
Speaker 2: what we are going to be and that's what the
Speaker 2: protest will be continuing going forward.
Speaker 1: Charlie, thanks for speaking with us today.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Nicole.
Speaker 1: Also in the news, hundreds of people gathered on the
Speaker 1: lawns in front of Parliament House in Camberra yesterday to
Speaker 1: protest the visit of Israeli President Isaac Hertzog. The protesters
Speaker 1: were joined by several federal politicians, including ACT Senator David
Speaker 1: Polcock and Green's leader Larissa Waters. Prime Minister Anthony Alberesi
Speaker 1: met President Herzog and said it was very constructive. In
Speaker 1: response to cross bench questions Albernese that he raised the
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four Israeli strike that killed Australian aid worker
Speaker 1: Zombie Francom and six World Central Kitchen colleagues in Gaza,
Speaker 1: saying Australia is pressing for full accountability, including any appropriate
Speaker 1: criminal charges. And Rental affordability in Australia has worsened at
Speaker 1: a rapid pace, with new data showing rents have increased
Speaker 1: more than two and a half times faster than wages
Speaker 1: over the past five years. The figures from property data
Speaker 1: analysis company Totality says national rents climbed forty three point
Speaker 1: nine percent from twenty twenty to twenty twenty five, compared
Speaker 1: with wage growth of seventeen and a half percent over
Speaker 1: the same period. The data also finds that tenants are
Speaker 1: now paying on an average a third of their pre
Speaker 1: tax income on rent, which it says is the highest
Speaker 1: on record. I'm Nicole Johnston. This is seven am. Thanks
Speaker 1: for listening.