1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:05,400 Speaker 1: Imagine a digital currency that can be traded throughout the 2 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: Internet that was linked to gold. This is what the 3 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:11,119 Speaker 1: digital Gold Bank is all about. 4 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:16,079 Speaker 2: Gold, the glinting promise of treasure that drove people from 5 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:19,439 Speaker 2: all around the country and the world to Australia back 6 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:23,600 Speaker 2: in the eighteen fifties during our gold rush, the influx 7 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 2: of prospectors, helping to shape our country into the multicultural 8 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 2: nation we now know. The precious metal is sometimes tilted 9 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 2: as a recession proof investment, But what Alan metcalf is 10 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 2: talking about in this YouTube video is not physical gold. 11 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 2: It's a digital concept gold that you can't see or touch, 12 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:48,279 Speaker 2: but which can be bought and traded entirely online. More significantly, 13 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:51,959 Speaker 2: this scheme is the first evidence I find of Alan's 14 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 2: money going overseas. 15 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: Digital monetization means that through the safe world system, we 16 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 1: can turn products and services into digital currency. Combined digital 17 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:08,679 Speaker 1: monetization with gold, and instantaneously we have a way to 18 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:13,039 Speaker 1: restore and sustain the credibility of the world economy. We 19 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 1: also have a safe haven to hold the retirement savings 20 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:17,400 Speaker 1: of the world. 21 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 2: Everything Alan has just said seems a bit insincere to me, 22 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 2: a bit like fool's gold. He can't have seriously believed 23 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 2: it that his bank was going to single handedly kickstart 24 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 2: the world economy and become a one stop shop for 25 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 2: people to invest their retirement money. But it was becoming 26 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 2: harder to squeeze more money out of investors, so in 27 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:43,320 Speaker 2: twenty fifteen, Alan came up with this wild plan. This 28 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 2: was the latest add on to his original Safe World's concept, 29 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 2: which was already ambitious and confusing enough for investors. Now 30 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 2: Safewolds was going to have its own currency and bank 31 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 2: was called Digital Gold. Alan claimed to have the minus touch. 32 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 2: His Digital Gold Bank would be a safe place for 33 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 2: investors to store their money and watch it prosper, but 34 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 2: it was also a haven of another type, a tax haven. 35 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 2: Alan had started the business sixteen thousand kilometers away at 36 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 2: a place known as the Cayman Islands. I'm Alex Turner Cohen, 37 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 2: a finance and investigative reporter from US dot com dot AU, 38 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:36,919 Speaker 2: and you're listening to the Missing forty nine Million. This 39 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 2: is episode six Safe Haven. 40 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 1: I am in Grand Cayman Island today and have just 41 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: taken the first step towards establishing the Digital Gold Bank. 42 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 2: This is the artificial intelligence program that we've been using 43 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 2: throughout the series to recreate Alan's voice. Ai Allen is 44 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 2: reading out an email that real Alan sent hundreds of 45 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 2: shareholders in April twenty fifteen. 46 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 1: Today, I incorporated the Cayman's company Digital Gold Standard. The 47 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: company can't be called the Digital Gold Bank until it 48 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:13,919 Speaker 1: acquires a banking license. 49 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 2: I'd vaguely heard of the Cayman Islands before I started 50 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 2: this treasure hunt. It is located in the Caribbean and 51 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 2: as a British overseas territory with a population of about 52 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 2: sixty eight thousand citizens. The Grand Cayman is its biggest island, 53 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:32,079 Speaker 2: and its sanswept beaches and golden sunrises are popular with tourists. 54 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:35,119 Speaker 2: But that's not the main thing the Caymans are known for. 55 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 2: It's heaven for tax dodgers. The Cayman Islands is ranked 56 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 2: as the greatest enabler of corporate tax abuse and topped 57 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 2: the Haven score ranking according to analysis done by campaign 58 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 2: group Tax Justice Network. Allan didn't shy away from its reputation, 59 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 2: though Later in the email, he said. 60 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 1: Why has this new company been incorporated in Grand Cayman 61 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: Because it needs to be an international entity that can 62 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 1: operate globally without conflicting taxation interests. This does not mean 63 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 1: that we are seeking to avoid paying taxation. We simply 64 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 1: need to avoid paying double taxation. There is nothing illegal. 65 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:16,159 Speaker 3: In this move. 66 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 2: He goes on to say he had legal advice on 67 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 2: the issue. It's taken me ages to work out exactly 68 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:27,040 Speaker 2: what this part of his business was up to. What's 69 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 2: helped is that Allan made several YouTube videos, so I've 70 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 2: pieced some of it together. 71 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:36,840 Speaker 1: Most honest economists today now agree that the world economy's 72 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 1: current woes all started when Richard Nixon removed the Goal 73 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 1: standard in nineteen seventy one. Debt and the systematic destruction 74 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 1: of the world economy has been out of control since 75 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 1: that time. Consequently, people everywhere now live in the hope 76 00:04:55,880 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 1: of somehow restoring the Goal's standard. Share this hope. 77 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 2: It sounds sketchy when I look into it, though. Experts 78 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 2: do seem to agree that President Nixon's decision to delink 79 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 2: the US dollar from gold are sho in a new 80 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 2: era of instability. I'm intrigued now, so I mine for 81 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 2: more information. One Safeworld's investor sends me a document titled 82 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 2: Digital Gold Standard investment memorandum. This booklet outlines Alan's plans 83 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 2: for his alternate currency. In it, Alan said he. 84 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: Wanted to create a digital economy for the world that 85 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 1: is backed by gold. 86 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:37,720 Speaker 2: That's Alan's AI voice again. His memorandum to investors. 87 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 1: Continued, we will provide the way to monetize gold and 88 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 1: silver and turn these valuable physical assets into an everyday 89 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:50,840 Speaker 1: common electronic currency. We will also be re establishing the 90 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: gold standard that once existed and served the world economy. 91 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:58,919 Speaker 2: So well, this is all getting a bit weird for me. 92 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:02,280 Speaker 2: People try maraid gold and silver futures all the time, 93 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:07,160 Speaker 2: meaning they already effectively function as an everyday common digital currency. 94 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 2: There was more. His digital gold was going to be 95 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 2: an alternative to PayPal, Alan said, and he even went 96 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:16,599 Speaker 2: a step further and planned to issue his users with 97 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:19,840 Speaker 2: their own gold paid debit card. Alan had a mock 98 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 2: up and everything in the information booklet showing the shiny 99 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:27,360 Speaker 2: debit card he was proposing. He only needed a small amount, 100 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 2: he said, eight million dollars to get his gold bank 101 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:34,719 Speaker 2: off the ground, and gold and silver would be purchased 102 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 2: with any leftover money. The best part, those who had 103 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 2: already invested might be able to convert their shares into 104 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:44,679 Speaker 2: something real for the first time gold. 105 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:49,479 Speaker 1: We're also aware of the increasing interest among investors to 106 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:53,840 Speaker 1: roll over their existing stock market holdings into gold and 107 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 1: or silver. Converting retirement accounts into gold and or silver 108 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:00,799 Speaker 1: accounts is increasingly popular. 109 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 2: Shares for this digital gold standard were selling for just 110 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 2: zero point zero one CeNSE each. The minimum investment was 111 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 2: two thousand dollars. He was selling them the same way 112 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 2: as Safe World shares, through a bank transfer to a 113 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 2: US or Australian account. Allan said people were already interested 114 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 2: in asking questions. 115 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 1: If Safe World's TV shares are so valuable, why is 116 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 1: the company selling lots in this offer at such a 117 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 1: low price. Because early stage funding is valuable. Investors who 118 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 1: are prepared to invest at the early stage of business 119 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: establishment expect and should get rewarded over and above what 120 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 1: later stage investors receive. The company is exploring the opportunity 121 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: to use our superior technology to produce a private and 122 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 1: secure digital wallet to support the goalpaid debit card. 123 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 2: Okay, this part I recognize it sounds like some of 124 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 2: the cryptocurrency schemes that have become huge in recent years. 125 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 2: They're a kind of digital payment system similar to what 126 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 2: Alan is pitching, and since launching, cryptocurrencies have been wildly volatile. 127 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 2: Alan even reference Bitcoin the world's biggest cryptocurrency later on 128 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 2: in the INFOMEMO. 129 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: In an electronic economy, electronic money is required. Because of this, 130 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 1: we now see an increasing number of digital currencies being 131 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: created and aggressively promoted to exploit this reality. Among these, 132 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: Bitcoin is probably the most well known. The problem with 133 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:42,080 Speaker 1: all the cyber currencies that are currently available is that 134 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 1: they are not universal in nature, They are proprietary, and 135 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 1: in some cases, like Bitcoin, their origin is unknown. 136 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:54,599 Speaker 2: He's right. Bitcoin's origin is kind of unknown. It was 137 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 2: set up in two thousand and nine by someone calling 138 00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 2: themselves to Toshi Nakamoto, only no one really knows who 139 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:05,719 Speaker 2: Nakamoto is. Apart from that, Bitcoin is pretty well established 140 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 2: as a transparent, digital only payment method. Alan seemed to 141 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 2: be proposing an alternative to it. 142 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 4: When people hear digital gold, especially today, some people think 143 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 4: about bitcoin because it's often referenced as digital gold. 144 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 2: This is Tommy Honan, an analyst at Australian cryptocurrency exchange 145 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:28,439 Speaker 2: platform swift X. He's from Brisbane and we meet when 146 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 2: he comes to Sydney for a conference. I want to 147 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 2: know what digital gold was. Was it cryptocurrency? Is this 148 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 2: where investors money could have got to I send Tommy 149 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 2: the Digital Gold information memorandum before our face to face interview. 150 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 2: It's almost like a white paper where Alan proposes his 151 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 2: methodology and what problem he's attempting to solve with his 152 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 2: gold bank concept, and something about it instantly strikes Tommy. 153 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 4: I believe that the project white paper itself lends itself 154 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 4: directly from what a crypto white paper would look like, 155 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 4: our blockchain project would look like. 156 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:07,559 Speaker 2: The blockchain is central to how cryptocurrency operates. Essentially, it's 157 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 2: a way of recording every transaction anyone makes through crypto. 158 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:15,320 Speaker 4: Blockchain gives us the ultimate transparency. Every transaction that goes 159 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 4: on chain is tracked. It is something that is filed 160 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:21,439 Speaker 4: essentially in a ledger, in a book of transactions that 161 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 4: can be available on chain and visible to everyone at 162 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 4: any time. 163 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:28,079 Speaker 2: Alan's own idea echoed this, as he. 164 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 1: Declared nothing could be more transparent than this. 165 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 2: Tommy also found that Allan's reasoning was quite similar to 166 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 2: the fears that led to the creation of cryptocurrency. 167 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:40,680 Speaker 4: The world was on fire in terms of global markets. 168 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 4: We just see in the GFC kind of play out 169 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 4: thanks for failing. The Fiat currency system was under a 170 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 4: lot of strain. You know, you would have heard about 171 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 4: bank runs happening across the globe. I know people that 172 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 4: are definitely in that camp where they don't want to 173 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 4: hold money in the banks. At that time, the original 174 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 4: use case was, yeah, we don't trust anyone, so we 175 00:10:57,679 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 4: want to create our own currency. We're not kind of 176 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 4: self costody it as well, so no one nobody in 177 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 4: the world can get access to my money, and the 178 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 4: banks can collapse, the governments can collapse, but my value 179 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 4: is still safe. So that's where it started. That's not 180 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 4: where we are today. 181 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:16,840 Speaker 2: And maybe that fear that everything could collapse around you 182 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 2: did make Allen look at gold as a safe investment. 183 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 4: Gold as an investment class is kind of almost prehistoric 184 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 4: for some people. I guess it is an order demographic 185 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 4: type of investment. 186 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 2: You're saying that the digital version is almost is essentially 187 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:35,200 Speaker 2: like having like a bar of gold kind of at 188 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 2: the bottom of your bed, but it's being held almost 189 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 2: digitally somewhere. 190 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, it's it's not great practice told pull 191 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 4: in underneath your bed I like to put but it is. 192 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 4: I guess that's the reality of it. 193 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 2: So to recap, cryptocurrency started out because its early users 194 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:57,079 Speaker 2: deeply distrusted governments and banks. They wanted to store their 195 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 2: wealth in crypto, safe from the financial woes of the world. 196 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 2: At the time Allan was selling digital gold. Very few 197 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:09,320 Speaker 2: people had even heard of cryptocurrency. One bitcoin was worth 198 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 2: two hundred and fifty US dollars and now it's worth 199 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:16,440 Speaker 2: sixty seven thousand US dollars. There were only five hundred 200 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 2: and fifty digital currencies operating back in twenty fifteen, and 201 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:22,440 Speaker 2: now there's more than three thousand as it's all become 202 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 2: more mainstream. 203 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:27,439 Speaker 4: Absolutely a niche tech that not many of the average 204 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 4: people would have been involved with. In twenty fifteen, the 205 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:32,600 Speaker 4: market was a lot different than how it is today. 206 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 4: Big Kind was worried about two hundred and fifty dollars. Today, 207 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 4: I think at the time of recording it's about sixty 208 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:41,079 Speaker 4: seven thousand US. But there was about five hundred and 209 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 4: fifty digital currencies back in twenty fifteen. There's three thousand 210 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 4: plus today, and the entire crypto market was only worthd 211 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 4: about four billion. I think we're just shy of two 212 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 4: and a half trillion. At the time of recording, it 213 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 4: was a much different world even back in twenty fifteen. 214 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:02,200 Speaker 4: It's less than you know, nine years ago, but it 215 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:03,680 Speaker 4: was a completely different world back then. 216 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:07,440 Speaker 2: As Tommy was pouring over all the information I'd sent 217 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:10,840 Speaker 2: to him before our chat, he spotted a glaring issue, 218 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 2: a sign that Digital gold Standard had a problem and 219 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 2: was never really going to go anywhere. He brings it 220 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:18,720 Speaker 2: to my attention. 221 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 4: For our currency to be truly digital, it needs to 222 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 4: be built in the cloud, needs to be built on chain, 223 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 4: needs to be built within a block So I guess 224 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:30,079 Speaker 4: we have no evidence at this point that actually that 225 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 4: project itself was built on chain. 226 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 2: And while I've looked, I haven't been able to find 227 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 2: any evidence of a blockchain transaction happening through Allen's Digital 228 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 2: gold Standard. 229 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 4: It is quite an interesting case, and there is question 230 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:46,080 Speaker 4: marks around whether it actually was built on chain or not. 231 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 4: Without that address, it's virtually impossible to find out and 232 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 4: to track where the value was coming from, whether specific 233 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 4: digital gold tokens were being minted or not. That is 234 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:00,120 Speaker 4: almost impossible, like I said, to track until you have 235 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 4: the blockchain that it was potentially built on, if it's 236 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 4: bitcoind if it's ethereum Selana, whatever blockchain it was. 237 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:11,439 Speaker 2: Despite this glaring floor in Allen's vision, Tommy says there 238 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 2: was something to what he was selling. Other cryptocurrencies have 239 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 2: been set up back on the value of gold. 240 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 4: Yes, it was innovative at the time. You fast forward 241 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 4: twenty twenty four, we have projects like this kind of everywhere. Today. 242 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 4: We have tokens that are backed by track the price 243 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 4: of gold, and they're kind of quote unquote derivatives of gold. 244 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 2: I have one final question for Tommy, why would Alan 245 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 2: set this company up in the Cayman Islands. 246 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 4: Cama Islands is seen as one of the most conducive 247 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 4: environments or geographies for innovation. They allow more things to 248 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 4: happen where. Things you can do in the Cayman Islands 249 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 4: you can't do in Australia because the regulations won't potentially 250 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 4: allow you or it hasn't been thought of yet. And 251 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 4: then the tax heaven kind of elements that you've mentioned 252 00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 4: as well, cost of business, cost of running businesses in 253 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 4: those areas, they are generally cheaper as well. 254 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 2: So maybe Allan had something. It wasn't perfect, but it 255 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 2: could have maybe worked. 256 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 4: Maybe. 257 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 2: Despite what Tommy says about the advantages of basing your 258 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 2: business in the Cayman Islands, they're not really renowned for 259 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 2: their transparency. When I look into Digital gold Standard, I 260 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 2: find one reference buried in a one thousand page document 261 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 2: on the Cayman Islands Gazette. Digital gold Standard is listed 262 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 2: alongside thousands of other businesses that the island's regulator struck 263 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 2: off in twenty nineteen because of unpaid administrative fees. I 264 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 2: track down a document that says Digital gold Standard was 265 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 2: registered in twenty fifteen when Alan started sprooking the idea 266 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 2: to investors. Alan's wife, Mary Netcalf, is listed as the 267 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 2: sole remaining director of the business. Digital gold Standard only 268 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 2: had a registered share capital of forty one thousand Cayman 269 00:15:55,680 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 2: Islands dollars, which is about seventy four thousand Ausie dollars. 270 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 2: Suggests that Allan's lofty goals of raising eight million dollars 271 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 2: didn't happen. This document also confirms that Digital gold Standard 272 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 2: had been shut down in November twenty nineteen. What I 273 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 2: haven't been able to do is track down anyone who 274 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 2: actually invested in this Digital gold scheme. But Warren Bardon, 275 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 2: a Western Australian farmer, comes to the rescue the. 276 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 1: Right further money. He started selling digital gold standardshaws. 277 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 2: You might remember I spoke to Warren in episode four 278 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 2: when I visited Geraldton. So you bought into this digital goal. 279 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 4: I didn't go into that. 280 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 3: I'd put enough into it the Metcalf idea, and I 281 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 3: wasn't going to put any more. 282 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 2: But Warren's late father, Vaughan did. I didn't even know 283 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 2: for sure that anyone had actually invested in Allan's gold 284 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 2: venture until now. Vaughan Bardon has recently passed away, and 285 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 2: I'm actually speaking to Warren from his father's home as 286 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 2: he's still sorting out his dad's estate, including looking after 287 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 2: all the cattle left behind. 288 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 5: I think he trusted it a little bit more than me. 289 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 4: Why do you say that he put did you? 290 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:10,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, Warren invested twenty thousand dollars, so Vaughan Bardon handed 291 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 2: over more than that. Vaughan did it believing hoping that 292 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 2: his kids, like Warren and his sister his grandkids, would 293 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 2: be set up for life. I know that because he 294 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:25,440 Speaker 2: registered some of the shares in their names. Vaughan Bardon 295 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 2: died still not knowing what had happened to his investment, 296 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 2: the investment he made into both Safe Worlds and Digital 297 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 2: gold Standard. Are you okay with us maybe taking a 298 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:40,959 Speaker 2: few photos of these documents. Up until now, I haven't 299 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:45,160 Speaker 2: actually seen a Digital Gold shareholder certificate, but Warren has 300 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:50,159 Speaker 2: found one among his father's things, Digital gold Standard incorporated 301 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 2: under the laws of the Cayman Islands. It reads it's 302 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 2: the fortieth share certificate that was issued, so at least 303 00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 2: thirty nine people invested before Vaughan Bardon. Right at the 304 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 2: top is a dollar sign in a circle that looks 305 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:06,399 Speaker 2: like a weird take on the bitcoin symbol, which is 306 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:09,679 Speaker 2: a bee combined with a dollar sign. I've posted the 307 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 2: certificate up on the news dot com dot a U 308 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 2: website if you want to look for yourself. When my 309 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 2: producer Nina Young sees the piece of paper, her mind 310 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 2: is made up. Now that I've seen a certificate, the 311 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:22,719 Speaker 2: Digital gold doesn't exist. 312 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:23,440 Speaker 6: Mm. 313 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:24,160 Speaker 2: Looks fake. 314 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:26,359 Speaker 3: That's the most fake certificate I've ever seen. 315 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 2: As crazy as all this gold stuff is, there's something 316 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 2: else Alan kept hidden from shareholders over the years. Safe 317 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 2: Wards had also got mixed up with another notorious tax haven, 318 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 2: the British Virgin Islands, also based in the Caribbean. The 319 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:53,679 Speaker 2: Virgin Islands has half the population of the Caymans, and 320 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:57,200 Speaker 2: it's actually ranked as the best tax haven. The Cayman 321 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:00,719 Speaker 2: Islands comes in second and Bermuda comes in third place. 322 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 2: There's a strange correlation between tax havens and beautiful beaches. 323 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 2: I'm not sure why. In twenty eighteen, Alan's investors believed 324 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 2: that they'd found proof of a money trail that ended 325 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:17,400 Speaker 2: at the British Virgin Islands. Years earlier, Alan had registered 326 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:23,640 Speaker 2: two businesses there, IBS BVII Limited and IBS Shareholders Holding colimited. 327 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 2: The IBS part stands for Internet Business Systems, but when 328 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 2: I hear this, I think of another abbreviation for IBS, 329 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:37,680 Speaker 2: irritable bowel syndrome. Perhaps an unfortunate acronym choice there by allan. Anyway, 330 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:41,639 Speaker 2: investors believed their money had been transferred to these companies 331 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:45,160 Speaker 2: in the British Virgin Islands without their knowledge or consent. 332 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 2: Here's an email a group of investors sent to Safforlds 333 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:51,680 Speaker 2: in twenty eighteen. As their outrage grew. 334 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 7: The shareholders are aware that in twenty ten, a share 335 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:59,240 Speaker 7: exchange of sixty six million, six hundred and seventy four 336 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 7: thousand and twenty three shares took place in the USA. 337 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:08,120 Speaker 7: The shares in Safe World Internet TV, Inc. An unregistered company, 338 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:13,119 Speaker 7: were exchanged for IBS Inc. Shares, a bankrupt company. The 339 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 7: shares exchanged were then transmitted to IBS Shareholdings Co. Limited 340 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:22,879 Speaker 7: of the British Virgin Islands. This transaction is illegitimate and 341 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 7: thus invalid, and. 342 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:28,920 Speaker 2: Going back through my files, I dig out old emails 343 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 2: Allen sent to investors in twenty twelve which support the 344 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:35,920 Speaker 2: idea of a link to the Virgin Islands. He wrote 345 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:39,160 Speaker 2: he'd reached an agreement with investors to transfer their shares 346 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 2: into the IBS business for tax reasons. 347 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 1: The shares will be held in trust until Safe World's 348 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 1: Television Inc. Is listed and the shares can be sold. 349 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:53,679 Speaker 1: If they were issued now, it is most likely that 350 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 1: the value of the shares would be taxable in the 351 00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:00,200 Speaker 1: hands of the recipient. A British Virgin Islands corporate da 352 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:01,960 Speaker 1: has been established. 353 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 2: Could this be it? As Safe World's never went public, 354 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 2: does that mean the shares and therefore the money is 355 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 2: still there in that trust? A literal pot of gold 356 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 2: locked up in a company called IBS, which is registered 357 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:22,160 Speaker 2: in another opaque island, tax haven, on the other side 358 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 2: of the world. This feels like a pretty amazing moment. 359 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:28,960 Speaker 2: But straight away I'm thinking what does this mean for 360 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,639 Speaker 2: the six hundred people hoping to see their money again? 361 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:35,880 Speaker 2: Because how are all these Australian shareholders, especially the ones 362 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 2: in places like Garyalton, going to navigate the tricky processes 363 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 2: in the British Virgin Islands to recover their money? And 364 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:47,160 Speaker 2: what if I'm wrong? So I dig deeper. Alan started 365 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:51,680 Speaker 2: IBS BVII Limited in nineteen ninety nine, the same year 366 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:53,919 Speaker 2: he had his epiphany where he discovered the law of 367 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 2: thought buried in the Bible. This seems important because Alan 368 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 2: appears to have kept this company seek it with no 369 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 2: mention to shareholders. He'd already started a business in the 370 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:08,119 Speaker 2: Caribbean Sea years earlier when they were giving him their money. 371 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:12,200 Speaker 2: Another company was then registered in the British Virgin Islands 372 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:16,640 Speaker 2: in twenty twelve, this one called IBS Shareholders Holding Co Limited. 373 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:19,399 Speaker 2: This lines up with when Alan claims to have struck 374 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 2: an agreement with his investors. For a moment, I think 375 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:25,199 Speaker 2: I may have stumbled across the final resting place of 376 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 2: the missing forty nine million. But as I keep skimming 377 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 2: over these documents, I'm disappointed. Both companies were dissolved in 378 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:37,919 Speaker 2: July twenty twenty three by pure coincidence. That was a 379 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 2: week before I first contacted Mary Alan's wife trying to 380 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:44,760 Speaker 2: find out more about him as part of this investigation. 381 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 2: So if there was any money still in those businesses, 382 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 2: where could it have gone. It's not a simple case 383 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 2: of X marking the spot. Unfortunately, the fact he. 384 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 6: Set up in the British Virgin Islands is interesting to 385 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:02,679 Speaker 6: me because I've traced money to the Camans before and 386 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:07,159 Speaker 6: I had bank records. But when I was comparing, like, 387 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,159 Speaker 6: what's the benefit of setting up a company in the 388 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:13,119 Speaker 6: British Version Islands versus the Caymans. British Version Islands, you 389 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 6: don't have to disclose who owns what, and it seemed 390 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 6: like it was a much greater hurdle than even in 391 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:19,400 Speaker 6: the Caymans. 392 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:24,119 Speaker 2: This is Leah Wheatolta. She's an ex FBI agent turned 393 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:28,399 Speaker 2: private detective. Leah runs her own podcast called Data Sleuth, 394 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 2: where she specializes in following money trails, which is how 395 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,439 Speaker 2: I heard about her. She has long dark hair and 396 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,320 Speaker 2: glasses and listens patiently as I tell her what I 397 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 2: know about the late Alan Metcalf. The private detective is 398 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 2: right about the hurdles I had to jump over to 399 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 2: find out information, any information at all about companies and 400 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 2: the British Virgin Islands, and why it's so popular for 401 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 2: businessmen and women trying to keep a low profile Without 402 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 2: knowing what the company is. It's impossible to find out 403 00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 2: who's behind a business in Theridish Virgin Islands. You can't 404 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,359 Speaker 2: just run a director search based on someone's name, something 405 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 2: that I usually rely on for many of my investigations 406 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:11,400 Speaker 2: in Australia. But luckily I know about Alan's two companies. 407 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 2: I managed to find two documents on the companies. Those 408 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:18,400 Speaker 2: are the documents I was looking at earlier. They don't 409 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 2: say who directs these businesses. I'm certain these are Allan's companies, 410 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:26,359 Speaker 2: though they match with the company names shareholders found and 411 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 2: also the US law firm that Alan used sometimes, Dwayne 412 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,359 Speaker 2: Morris was listed as being involved in starting the companies. 413 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,239 Speaker 2: When I tell Leah, the ex FBI agent, about the 414 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:39,680 Speaker 2: Allan Metcalf case, she tells me. 415 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 6: This it may even be that he set up businesses 416 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 6: there because it's confidential, but the money isn't necessarily in 417 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:48,359 Speaker 6: the British versions. 418 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:52,320 Speaker 2: It's like a gut punch after feeling like I was 419 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 2: so close to the end of the rainbow. Now it 420 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 2: seems that was nothing but naive optimism, So the money 421 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 2: might not be there after all, and possibly it never was. Effectively, 422 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 2: I feel like I'm back to square one. Frustrated, I 423 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:08,679 Speaker 2: decide to pick lee as brains on what I should 424 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 2: do next. Where do I start? I've got this, you know, 425 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,680 Speaker 2: deceased man with forty nine million dollars to his name, 426 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 2: and a lot of investors who are wondering where the 427 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,440 Speaker 2: money's are gone. So where do I start? Where would 428 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 2: you start? 429 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 6: All of this tracing money typically comes from bank statements, 430 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 6: credit card statements, and so my experience of tracing money 431 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 6: is really broad because it all comes from the same 432 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 6: type of information typically, and it's the same whether it's 433 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 6: in a divorce or some sort of partnership dispute, or 434 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 6: some sort of con artist criminal case, civil case. I 435 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 6: think what makes kind of what you're doing interesting is 436 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 6: that you don't have access to that information. So trace 437 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:56,479 Speaker 6: money in the way that I'm talking about that's what 438 00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 6: you would need, some sort of lawsuit from the victims 439 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 6: or a lot enforcement agency. However, all is not lost 440 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 6: because the same thing. You can kind of work these 441 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:10,880 Speaker 6: things backwards. So maybe I'm probably getting ahead of your questions, 442 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 6: but maybe you know you don't have bank statements credit 443 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,160 Speaker 6: card statements to work from. But I have thought through 444 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 6: several ways that you can kind of back into that information. 445 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 6: So I realized some of these things may not be 446 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,880 Speaker 6: available because it happens so long ago. But I think 447 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,120 Speaker 6: it would be really interesting if any of the investors 448 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,639 Speaker 6: still have copies of any of the wires or checks 449 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 6: that they wrote to him, and to see if they 450 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 6: got a copy of that canceled check or information from 451 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:42,880 Speaker 6: the bank that might tell you and them where their 452 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:43,959 Speaker 6: money was deposited. 453 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 2: As Lee is talking, I make a note to follow 454 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:49,360 Speaker 2: up and see if any of the investors I've spoken 455 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 2: to have got this kind of paperwork. I do know 456 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,680 Speaker 2: some of the investors still have records of their bank transfer. 457 00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:58,359 Speaker 2: When I follow them up, I learned that Alan had 458 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,880 Speaker 2: set up two bank accounts, a Commonwealth Bank account going 459 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,800 Speaker 2: to a Brisbane branch and also a City Bank one 460 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,359 Speaker 2: in California. For American investors. 461 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,400 Speaker 6: Did he have an office. If he had an office, 462 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,200 Speaker 6: did he pay for a lease? If he has a lease, 463 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:14,680 Speaker 6: can you get a copy of that please? 464 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:20,240 Speaker 2: I keep making notes. Alan briefly had offices in Irvine, California, 465 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 2: but the landlord won't tell me anything. Later I would 466 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,919 Speaker 2: have more luck with Alan's Australian landlords. Alan had an 467 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 2: office in the city center of Brisbane. The owner tells me. 468 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 8: It looks like metcalf Ibs. Safeworld moved into three hundred 469 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,840 Speaker 8: and twenty Adelaide Street on the twenty ninth of December 470 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 8: in two thousand and six. They didn't commence paying the 471 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 8: lease until January twenty fifth, two thousand and seven, due 472 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:49,080 Speaker 8: to early access incentive. It was a ten desk private 473 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 8: office with an internal meeting room and reception area. The 474 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 8: contact on a lot of these records is a Michael 475 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 8: bertrand I also found a Mary metcalf working for Safeworld's 476 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:04,160 Speaker 8: Internet television that vacated in around twenty eighteen. I do 477 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,679 Speaker 8: have the bond and lease amounts for these tenants, but 478 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 8: due to privacy, we were preferred not to disclose those amounts. 479 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 8: But from what I can see, these were all paid 480 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:13,400 Speaker 8: in full. 481 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 2: When I look from Michael bertrand online, I find one 482 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,439 Speaker 2: that could fit the bill. Investors have been searching for 483 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:24,120 Speaker 2: the accountant of Safe Worlds, wanting to ask this unknown 484 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 2: person some hard questions. Could this be him? When I 485 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,679 Speaker 2: reach out, though multiple times, he never gets back to me. 486 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 2: Whoever he is, it doesn't change the fact that Alan's 487 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 2: Brisbane office was in a good location. It was a 488 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,680 Speaker 2: big office, enough room for ten people to work in there, 489 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 2: and in an expensive part of the city. The landlord 490 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 2: says the rent was between six thousand to eight thousand 491 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 2: dollars a month. That means Alan paid around eighty four 492 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 2: thousand dollars a year, So for the ten years the 493 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 2: office was rented out, it would have totaled something close 494 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 2: to a million dollars. Now, that would count for some 495 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 2: of the money Alan's investors put into the business, but 496 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 2: not the whole forty nine million dollars, not by a 497 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 2: long shot. As I feel Leah in on everything I know, 498 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 2: she points something else. 499 00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 6: Out Pennsylvania, where his business was registered in the States. 500 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 6: It is a state that is very favorable to like 501 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 6: privacy and things like that. Interesting proof that you are 502 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 6: still in business. A lot of times people will set 503 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 6: up companies in Delaware, and I believe Nevada maybe as well, 504 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 6: because they will also have some of those like really 505 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 6: protective you know, you can't find out as much information 506 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 6: about it. So again it's just like another why set 507 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 6: up there, especially if you're not from there. It's kind 508 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 6: of an odd place to set something up. 509 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 2: Learning all this makes me wonder. Several people have claimed 510 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 2: that Alan wasn't a fraud, just incombatant and that Safefood 511 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 2: was just mismanaged. From what Leah is saying, though, it 512 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,480 Speaker 2: seems like Alan was pretty business savvy, like he knew 513 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 2: exactly what he was doing and then suddenly he died. 514 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 2: After Alan's death, it seems like his plans started to unravel. 515 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:16,440 Speaker 2: His wife, Mary had to make sense of what he 516 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 2: left behind. She was left footing the bill for a 517 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 2: substantial debt. I put in a freedom of information request 518 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,040 Speaker 2: to the Fair Work On Budsman, an Australian government department 519 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,320 Speaker 2: that deals with workplace disputes. I had no idea what 520 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 2: I would find if anything, but my request strikes gold. 521 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 2: I learned that a full time Safeworlds employee had left 522 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 2: the company but never received their final wages they were 523 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:45,479 Speaker 2: owed forty one thousand dollars. They'd been trying unsuccessfully for 524 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 2: three years to recover their lost money while Mary was 525 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 2: the new boss. In twenty nineteen, they lodged a formal 526 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:56,600 Speaker 2: complaint with the Fair Work On Budsmen. Safeworlds haven't done 527 00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 2: a single payment after I left, the worker wrote, please 528 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:04,480 Speaker 2: help me get my unpaid salary. Mary Metcalf told the 529 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 2: Fair Work On Budsman that her company was experiencing cash 530 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 2: flow issues and she was trying to sell Safefworld's assets 531 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 2: to repay them. The matter has since been marked as resolved, 532 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:19,720 Speaker 2: so presumably this person was paid. Remember Rod McKay, the 533 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:23,200 Speaker 2: hardcore investor from Geraldton we heard from in the last 534 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 2: two episodes who recruited four hundred and fifty others from 535 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:30,480 Speaker 2: his hometown and then sent a string of wild emails 536 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,960 Speaker 2: casting doubt on the whole Irish deal. This might jog 537 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:34,520 Speaker 2: your memory. 538 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 9: You have overseen the demise of a fifty million dollar 539 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:42,200 Speaker 9: company made up predominantly of mum and Dad investors. 540 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,880 Speaker 2: He issued the company a new threat, saying if there 541 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 2: was no implementation of a marketing strategy for the sale 542 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 2: of Safe. 543 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,880 Speaker 9: Worlds, a class action may well result. 544 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:56,680 Speaker 2: At the same time, Charlie Weinbein, an investor from the Netherlands, 545 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 2: was also getting increasingly desperate. He's the one who tipped 546 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 2: me off to this scheme in the first place. He 547 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 2: and his wife put all their spare cash into Safe 548 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 2: Worlds in twenty thirteen. The Dutchman has been trying for 549 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,840 Speaker 2: a decade to find out what happened and if you'll 550 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,720 Speaker 2: ever see a scent of his missing money. In twenty 551 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,120 Speaker 2: twenty two, he decided to engage a lawyer. 552 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:19,920 Speaker 3: We were having a few beers together with a friend 553 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 3: of mine who is a lawyer, and I explained him 554 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,840 Speaker 3: the whole situation with Safe world and I said I 555 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,040 Speaker 3: wanted a lawyer to write a letter just to get 556 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,560 Speaker 3: more information, because all I wanted to know is where 557 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,840 Speaker 3: is the money, where is the investment, and what is 558 00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:39,040 Speaker 3: the investment and who are the investors. That's all the 559 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,120 Speaker 3: information that I really wanted to note. But the reaction 560 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 3: that I got back was, of course, that there was 561 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,520 Speaker 3: no way that I was going to see or hear anything. 562 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 3: I didn't get any direct answer at all, and that 563 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:54,440 Speaker 3: says enough for me. That says enough. 564 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,600 Speaker 2: That's not a good sign This lawyer sent off several 565 00:32:57,680 --> 00:32:59,200 Speaker 2: legal letters in twenty twenty two. 566 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,440 Speaker 9: There never has been any proof of investing my client's 567 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:04,800 Speaker 9: money as promised. My client has now come to a 568 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,520 Speaker 9: point where he no longer accepts any excuse not to 569 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:11,080 Speaker 9: refund his money. Therefore, I summon you to immediately return 570 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,480 Speaker 9: his invested money of fifty two thousand Australian dollars as 571 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 9: otherwise we will have no other choice than to take 572 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:17,440 Speaker 9: you to court. 573 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 10: Mary replied, this was obviously a startup company with the 574 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:26,360 Speaker 10: hope of early success, but of course without any guarantee. 575 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:30,200 Speaker 10: There never were, nor are there funds set aside to 576 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 10: fulfill such a non existent guarantee. 577 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,239 Speaker 2: Lacking the funds, Charlie did not go to court. He 578 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:39,440 Speaker 2: doesn't think he'll be getting his money back, but he's 579 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,720 Speaker 2: still fighting. Just a few months after his legal bid 580 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:46,160 Speaker 2: failed and he received this response from Mary, Charlie reached 581 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 2: out to me to see if I could help him. 582 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:50,760 Speaker 2: I met Mary Metcalf at her house in the Flesh 583 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:54,320 Speaker 2: last episode. But after everything I've now learned, there's so 584 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:56,960 Speaker 2: much more I want to ask her, so I email 585 00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:58,720 Speaker 2: Mary a long list of questions. 586 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:03,600 Speaker 10: Dear Miss Cohen in addition to your surprise visit to 587 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 10: my home and subsequent email, I must tell you that 588 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:10,840 Speaker 10: I am in no position financially to respond in detail 589 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:15,520 Speaker 10: to your various interrogations. I frankly have no confidence that 590 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:19,640 Speaker 10: the facts will be reported fairly and properly. However, I 591 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,960 Speaker 10: do refer you to the details in my previous emails, 592 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 10: the information I gave to ASEIK, and the reports I 593 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 10: try to provide to shareholders regularly. Yours, sincerely, Mary metcalf ps. 594 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 10: There never has been any bank accounts in Cayman or 595 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:39,359 Speaker 10: British Virgin Islands. The suggestion is just not true and 596 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:40,360 Speaker 10: very upsetting. 597 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,560 Speaker 2: I wasn't expecting a thesis in return, but wow, this 598 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:48,359 Speaker 2: response just makes me have more questions. So she says 599 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:52,040 Speaker 2: she's not in a position financially to respond. Does that 600 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:54,920 Speaker 2: mean Mary doesn't have any money at all? Does the 601 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 2: company not have any money? If so, where's the forty 602 00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:01,760 Speaker 2: nine million gone? And she says there are no Cayman 603 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:05,880 Speaker 2: or Virgin Island bank accounts. I guess what I've found 604 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 2: proved that the companies were registered there, but not necessarily 605 00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:12,760 Speaker 2: that there were bank accounts set up overseas. So doesn't 606 00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:15,960 Speaker 2: mean the money isn't there either. When I replied to her, 607 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,919 Speaker 2: hoping to at least clarify all of this, she never 608 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:22,920 Speaker 2: gets back to me. It's really frustrating. I feel like 609 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,319 Speaker 2: I've just been on a big loop. And while I 610 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:27,440 Speaker 2: have more of an idea of what Allan was up 611 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:31,000 Speaker 2: to after this line of investigation, still no solid lead 612 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:34,759 Speaker 2: and what he did with all the money. Investors occasionally 613 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,920 Speaker 2: receive an email from Mary telling them she's still looking 614 00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:40,800 Speaker 2: for buyers and that's all they ever hear about Safe Worlds. 615 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:45,440 Speaker 2: The most recent one was in January this year. Michael Blake, 616 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 2: the former footy player who was once one of the 617 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:52,000 Speaker 2: largest supporters of Safe Worlds, gave the business three hundred 618 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:55,719 Speaker 2: thousand dollars of his and his family's fortune. Now he 619 00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,600 Speaker 2: thinks it will take a miracle to ever see that again. 620 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:03,279 Speaker 11: I don't know she's trying to sell, or how she's 621 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:07,040 Speaker 11: getting her contacts, or if she's going out to meetings 622 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:11,279 Speaker 11: or whatever. You know, if something happens which will be 623 00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,160 Speaker 11: way at a left field, in a miracle, it would 624 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:15,279 Speaker 11: be it would be nice. 625 00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:16,400 Speaker 5: Yeah. 626 00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,760 Speaker 2: All these years since Alan first made these grand plans, 627 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,160 Speaker 2: Michael is wondering what happened to the secret code he 628 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:26,960 Speaker 2: talked about that was supposed to revolutionize the world and 629 00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:30,640 Speaker 2: make all the investors rich in the process. You might 630 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:33,680 Speaker 2: remember him questioning this in the very first episode. 631 00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:39,279 Speaker 11: As far as I understand, he had the algorithm in 632 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:42,560 Speaker 11: a safety secure box or something in the Cayman Islands 633 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,960 Speaker 11: that was for the protection of the algorithm, and he 634 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:48,440 Speaker 11: gifted it to charity if something happened to him and 635 00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:52,520 Speaker 11: Mary or whatever. He was very protective of it. He 636 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:54,800 Speaker 11: always said if it got in the wrong hand, it 637 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:55,840 Speaker 11: could destroy the world. 638 00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,480 Speaker 2: Mary strongly denies this, saying that the source code has 639 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:03,120 Speaker 2: never been located in the Cayman Islands. But this seems 640 00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:06,080 Speaker 2: to contradict what other investors have heard and what Allan 641 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:11,680 Speaker 2: himself said. Another investor, Phil Bardon, originally from Geraldon but 642 00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:15,200 Speaker 2: who's now based in Perth, is also feeling frustrated. 643 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,399 Speaker 5: I don't trust many people nowadays. I don't buy shares either. 644 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:20,000 Speaker 5: There's a lesson that you'll learn. 645 00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,480 Speaker 2: Phil remembers Alan telling him something interesting at one of 646 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:25,840 Speaker 2: the conferences in Perth, Western Australia. 647 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:28,800 Speaker 5: At this meeting, people are, I think questions and he 648 00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:33,799 Speaker 5: wouldn't answer it. And one stage, I said, okay, if 649 00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:37,520 Speaker 5: I went passes, what happens to the secret he's got? 650 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,920 Speaker 5: And they were told, I'm a thing by Alan Lloyd's 651 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,960 Speaker 5: what that was in a safe somewhere? I see if 652 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:47,799 Speaker 5: he dies tomorrow, what's going to happen all this information? 653 00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:50,400 Speaker 5: And I was told that, oh, it's in a safe 654 00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:52,120 Speaker 5: in a safe place. 655 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:53,720 Speaker 10: Did they say where? 656 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,320 Speaker 5: No, didn't say. But it just seems so far fast 657 00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:02,520 Speaker 5: that I questioned it, basically only months after I invested 658 00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:05,320 Speaker 5: the money, because they were saying it's in a safe place, 659 00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:07,319 Speaker 5: and what does that mean? 660 00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:12,840 Speaker 2: A few hours north of Perth in Geralton, Phil's cousin, 661 00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:16,200 Speaker 2: Warren Bondon, is also having his own serious doubts. 662 00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,359 Speaker 11: Another thing that worried me when Alan was in Drip 663 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,520 Speaker 11: and he made a statement that the company takes a 664 00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:24,959 Speaker 11: lot of money to kick down. It's taken two hundred 665 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:27,880 Speaker 11: and fifty thousand dollars a month. He said that in public, 666 00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:30,560 Speaker 11: and I thought, well, it can't be possible. 667 00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:35,240 Speaker 2: Even paying rent and wages. It seems hard to believe 668 00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:38,640 Speaker 2: that Safe Words was costing that much a month. But 669 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,800 Speaker 2: even if Alan had been spending two hundred and fifty 670 00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:45,200 Speaker 2: thousand dollars a month on the business. That's three million 671 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:47,920 Speaker 2: dollars a year. So in the ten years he was 672 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:51,960 Speaker 2: trying to develop the software, that's thirty million dollars, So 673 00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:55,879 Speaker 2: still a deficit of at least nineteen million dollars. Where 674 00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,960 Speaker 2: did the rest of it go? Alan had everything planned out, 675 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:06,560 Speaker 2: registering offshore businesses, navigating tricky, non transparent tax jurisdictions, now 676 00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:09,080 Speaker 2: being prime offers real estate in the heart of a 677 00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:14,040 Speaker 2: major Australian city. Everything had been thought through, everything except 678 00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:17,880 Speaker 2: his succession plans. It got Warren and a few others thinking. 679 00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:20,520 Speaker 1: People said, he's probably over there and enjoying his money, 680 00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:21,920 Speaker 1: over in somehwland somewhere. 681 00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:25,040 Speaker 2: To be honest, the first time I heard Warren say this, 682 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,680 Speaker 2: I kind of dismissed it. Alan was dead, or at 683 00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:32,440 Speaker 2: least he had a funeral. But now, after following the 684 00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:34,920 Speaker 2: trail of the missing forty nine million to the British 685 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:37,960 Speaker 2: Virgin Islands and the Cayman Islands, I feel like I 686 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,880 Speaker 2: know less about it than when I started. I find 687 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:44,399 Speaker 2: myself going back to what Warren said about Alan living 688 00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:48,160 Speaker 2: large on an island and asking myself, could it be possible? 689 00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,840 Speaker 2: Is Alan really still alive? And has he got his 690 00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:55,320 Speaker 2: money with him. That's next time on the Missing forty 691 00:39:55,400 --> 00:40:00,239 Speaker 2: nine million, that. 692 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:03,040 Speaker 12: Did right back and said, I hope it's going to 693 00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:06,280 Speaker 12: be an open casket, And people are like, that's pretty 694 00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:09,080 Speaker 12: heavy thing to say. But now looking back at it, 695 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:13,680 Speaker 12: he probably had every right to ask, because I don't know. 696 00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:15,759 Speaker 12: No one knows exactly if he's one hundred percent that 697 00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:17,799 Speaker 12: there's no bed, no destiny, you have proven to any 698 00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:20,080 Speaker 12: investors anything like that. 699 00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:22,520 Speaker 11: A couple of people just say, are you sure he's dead? 700 00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:24,080 Speaker 11: Should we go and dig up the coffin. 701 00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:29,359 Speaker 13: You have to be extremely clever and you have to 702 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,040 Speaker 13: have a lot of discipline to be able to fake 703 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:35,520 Speaker 13: your own death, because you know, you've got to cut 704 00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:39,160 Speaker 13: everything out of your life, even family. You have to 705 00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:43,040 Speaker 13: start again somewhere under a new assumed identity, and once 706 00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:44,640 Speaker 13: you do that, there's always a risk. 707 00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:48,640 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening. A new episode is coming out weekly. 708 00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:52,080 Speaker 2: Wherever you get your podcasts, make sure you subscribe so 709 00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:55,200 Speaker 2: you don't miss an episode. Head to news dot com 710 00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:58,160 Speaker 2: dot Au to read more of my reporting on this story. 711 00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,160 Speaker 2: Do you know more'n touched through our dedicated tip inbox 712 00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:06,080 Speaker 2: Missing Millions at news dot com dot Au or contact 713 00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:09,600 Speaker 2: me directly on Alex dot Turner, Dash Cohen at news 714 00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:11,840 Speaker 2: dot com DoD au, or look me up on Twitter 715 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:15,440 Speaker 2: to get my details. I'm your host, Alex Turner Cohen. 716 00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:19,680 Speaker 2: Nina Young is the executive producer, sound design and editing 717 00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:24,200 Speaker 2: by Tiffany Dimack. Our editorial director is Dan Box. Grant 718 00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:27,360 Speaker 2: McAvaney is our legal advisor, and Kerry Warren is the 719 00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:30,880 Speaker 2: editor of News dot com DODAU. Special thanks to our 720 00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:35,800 Speaker 2: voice actors Claudia Popowski, Andrew Backhouse, Tiffany Dimack, John ty Burton, 721 00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:38,880 Speaker 2: and James Chunk. And thanks to David Marchant for his 722 00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:40,440 Speaker 2: assistance on this investigation.